1 00:00:05,600 --> 00:00:08,200 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Fearing Green Business Interview. I'm sure all 2 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:11,240 Speaker 1: the Paris Olympics have been our best ever, at least 3 00:00:11,240 --> 00:00:13,800 Speaker 1: in terms of gold medals. So what does it mean 4 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:16,280 Speaker 1: for the company spending a fortune to promote their brands 5 00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:19,200 Speaker 1: during the coverage and what's it mean for nine Media. 6 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:21,840 Speaker 1: Ben Willie is the general manager and Media director of 7 00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:26,560 Speaker 1: Spinach Advertising Agency. Ben, Welcome back to Fear and Greed today. 8 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 2: Sean, great to be back. 9 00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:32,400 Speaker 1: What have you made of the coverage starting with Nine's 10 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:35,720 Speaker 1: free to wear coverage as well as its streaming service. 11 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:38,960 Speaker 2: I mean, I'd just like to open up by saying, 12 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:42,080 Speaker 2: what an incredible Olympics with this has now been the 13 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:47,479 Speaker 2: most successful Olympics in Australia's history if your measurement KPI 14 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:50,319 Speaker 2: is gold medals, and I just want to start by 15 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:54,200 Speaker 2: saying fantastic and congratulations to all of those athletes that 16 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:58,320 Speaker 2: have worked their guts out to make us proud. Totally look, 17 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:01,160 Speaker 2: I think Nine's done an excellent job. This was always 18 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:04,000 Speaker 2: going to be the trickiest. They paid three hundred and 19 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:08,479 Speaker 2: five million for Olympic broadcast package which includes Paris LA 20 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:11,200 Speaker 2: in twenty twenty eight and the Big One in Brisbane 21 00:01:11,240 --> 00:01:14,279 Speaker 2: in twenty thirty two and they paid about three hundred 22 00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:18,280 Speaker 2: and five million, and given the time difference between Paris 23 00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:21,319 Speaker 2: and the East Coast of Australia, that's been the trickiest 24 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:24,200 Speaker 2: to monetize for them, and I think they've done a 25 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 2: pretty good result. You know, they're claiming that it was 26 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:31,280 Speaker 2: one hundred and twenty million in costs just for Paris alone, 27 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:33,960 Speaker 2: and Mike sneeze Bey has come out recently and said 28 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:38,280 Speaker 2: that across television, radio and online they've written one hundred 29 00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:41,160 Speaker 2: and forty million in revenue. So if all of that's true, 30 00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:44,360 Speaker 2: it's a fantastic result and they've done a great job 31 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 2: amortizing that cost across more than just what used to 32 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:51,480 Speaker 2: be TV, across all of their other assets in audio 33 00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:54,320 Speaker 2: and in online news and printed news. 34 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 1: Okay, so that those numbers, does that mean they've actually 35 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 1: made a profit from it or the hundred and twenty 36 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 1: the production costs, So that's outside the three hundred and 37 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:05,200 Speaker 1: five million rights the games. 38 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:08,560 Speaker 2: No, that's included in the three hundred and five million. 39 00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:11,280 Speaker 2: But I think it's a big call to say that 40 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:14,920 Speaker 2: they've made a profit out of the Games, because privately, 41 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:17,799 Speaker 2: the Channel seven execs tell you that you don't ever 42 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:20,640 Speaker 2: make a profit. But what the games does is that 43 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:24,079 Speaker 2: media companies of their own biggest clients and it gives 44 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 2: them all of these moments and connections with consumers which 45 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:30,720 Speaker 2: they can use to promote all of their other assets. 46 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:34,040 Speaker 2: And they're doing that very aggressively on TV now with 47 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:37,920 Speaker 2: their next lot of TV shows, and they're doing it 48 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:41,679 Speaker 2: pretty well to promote people back to their audio broadcasts, 49 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:44,200 Speaker 2: so if you're driving somewhere or you want to listen 50 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:47,840 Speaker 2: to it on a podcast. So the virtuous circle has 51 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:50,919 Speaker 2: been quite successful for them, and I think we'll see 52 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:53,160 Speaker 2: much more of that in LA and in Brisbane. 53 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:55,720 Speaker 1: What do you think it means for Stan? Stan of 54 00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 1: course one of the original streaming services in Australia along 55 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:01,080 Speaker 1: with Netflix, plenty of others out there now those stand 56 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:03,760 Speaker 1: has still maintained its position pretty well. Well. What does 57 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:05,160 Speaker 1: the Olympics mean for Stan? 58 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:09,720 Speaker 2: Well, again, it's the same thing right they For Stan, 59 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 2: it means that they can people watching the Olympics on 60 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:16,119 Speaker 2: stand and certain events there will get promoted to other 61 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:20,000 Speaker 2: STAN original content and they will hopefully stay. They will 62 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:24,480 Speaker 2: hopefully subscribe if they're not subscribers otherwise and hopefully the 63 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:27,960 Speaker 2: producers of STAN come up with some sort of documentary 64 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:30,600 Speaker 2: about how awesome it's going to be for the triathletes 65 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:33,200 Speaker 2: to swim in the Brisbane River. I can't wait to 66 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:33,800 Speaker 2: see that one. 67 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 1: Absolutely. What about the advertisers? I finally I had this 68 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:39,920 Speaker 1: discussion with Michael and I said, I don't watch Free 69 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:43,000 Speaker 1: to Wear TV. I stream everything. But suddenly I'm back 70 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:45,160 Speaker 1: to Free to Wear because what nine has done is 71 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:49,120 Speaker 1: curate content really well for me in the morning and 72 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:53,680 Speaker 1: at nighttime. But the ads are really jarring for me. 73 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 1: I'm finding them really difficult to watch. Having said that, 74 00:03:56,880 --> 00:03:59,760 Speaker 1: I can probably name the four or five main advertisers, 75 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:02,200 Speaker 1: and you know, I like n R at the moment. 76 00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:04,880 Speaker 1: I'm happy with Woolies and you know, Aldi have never 77 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:06,840 Speaker 1: thought as much about Aldi, so in a sense it's 78 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:08,880 Speaker 1: working on me that it is kind of irritating me. 79 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:11,160 Speaker 1: How do you think they're do you think they're getting 80 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:11,920 Speaker 1: value for money? 81 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:15,400 Speaker 2: Perish the thought that the ads are jarring. I'm outraged 82 00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 2: by that. Sean. You know, advertising is a very important 83 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 2: part of this ecosystem, and you can watch this Olympics 84 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 2: live and free because of advertising. No sorry, I digress. 85 00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:30,280 Speaker 2: Look I think the advertisers have done well out of this. 86 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:32,719 Speaker 2: The good news and the bad news is that nine 87 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 2: have had to curate content, so there are probably people. 88 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:39,680 Speaker 2: The ratings are good. I mean, it's a bit tricky 89 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:42,960 Speaker 2: to measure the ratings compared to previous Olympics because we 90 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 2: have a new Total TV system that measures ratings also 91 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:51,599 Speaker 2: for streaming products as well. But you know, the numbers 92 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:55,000 Speaker 2: are saying that on average ten point five million viewers 93 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:57,640 Speaker 2: are tuning in at some point every day, So that's 94 00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:00,400 Speaker 2: fantastic news for advertisers. And the other the thing that 95 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:04,000 Speaker 2: whereas advertisers don't always get is the level of engagement 96 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:07,560 Speaker 2: you get with an event like Olympics. You know, there's 97 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 2: a huge amount of excitement. It's fantastic to watch Australia 98 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 2: do well against the rest of the world, especially the 99 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:18,200 Speaker 2: Poems and the Yanks. So from an advertising point of view, 100 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:21,520 Speaker 2: it's really engaged content and it's worth paying premium for. 101 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 2: And that's what you've seen. And you know, advertisers will 102 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:29,239 Speaker 2: often save up money to invest in the Olympics because 103 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:32,800 Speaker 2: they know that their brand health metrics will increase significantly 104 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 2: as a result of being next to some such great content. 105 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:41,240 Speaker 1: Stay with me, Ben, We'll be back in a minute. 106 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:48,680 Speaker 1: I'm speaking to Ben Willie from Spinach Advertising. What about 107 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:53,000 Speaker 1: everything that's not Olympics that must diminish somewhat. I mean, 108 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:56,360 Speaker 1: I can't remember watching anything on television that hasn't been 109 00:05:56,400 --> 00:05:59,159 Speaker 1: Olympics related over the past couple of weeks. Yeah. 110 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:01,800 Speaker 2: Well, there was a time in the days before streaming 111 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:05,760 Speaker 2: where the Olympics used to command between eighty and eighty 112 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:08,960 Speaker 2: five percent of all television viewing wow when it was on. 113 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:12,400 Speaker 2: So it wouldn't be a stretch to suggest that the 114 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:17,480 Speaker 2: most proportion of video content consumed on screens is definitely 115 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 2: the Olympics. And the great news is we don't have 116 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:23,000 Speaker 2: to You know, my son's a rower, so he watches 117 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 2: a lot of rowing. I like to watch beach volleyball 118 00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 2: because I'm really interested in a sport. So we can 119 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:32,640 Speaker 2: indulge all of those sorts of things in a million 120 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:36,000 Speaker 2: different ways, and we can insert ads dynamically, and we 121 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:40,440 Speaker 2: can really optimize that and create great connections with brands. 122 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:43,039 Speaker 2: And you've described some brands earlier who I think, in 123 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 2: my opinion, are doing very well with their Olympic sponsorship packages. 124 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:49,920 Speaker 1: So what do you expect in four years time you'll 125 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:52,720 Speaker 1: still be watching the beach volleyball Ben, I'm sure because 126 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:56,120 Speaker 1: you love it as a sport. Do you think that 127 00:06:56,160 --> 00:07:02,800 Speaker 1: there will be a very much on demand streaming style coverage. 128 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:05,080 Speaker 1: Do you think free to wear in four years will 129 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:07,600 Speaker 1: still be because I'm sure the nine main challenge the 130 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:10,440 Speaker 1: dominant player in this Olympics. Will that still be the case? 131 00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:13,040 Speaker 1: You know? Do you think we'll have the same advertisers back? 132 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 1: I suppose what have we learned from this Olympics for 133 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 1: the next one. 134 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:19,120 Speaker 2: Look, there's no doubt that you know, the dynamic of 135 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:21,920 Speaker 2: free to wear is changing. But I don't agree with 136 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:24,120 Speaker 2: the people who say free to wear won't exist. They're 137 00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:27,200 Speaker 2: the same people who say printed newspapers won't exist. And 138 00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:29,920 Speaker 2: then they will exist in some form. But you will 139 00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:32,200 Speaker 2: still have a relationship with that big screen in the 140 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:35,360 Speaker 2: living room, and you'll still get your content directly from 141 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 2: nine or STAN or a combination of the two. So 142 00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 2: that'll still be a really valuable opportunity for advertisers. The 143 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:45,240 Speaker 2: time zones will be a little bit different, so they'll 144 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:48,400 Speaker 2: be a bit more watching of events live, and that's 145 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:51,280 Speaker 2: better for ratings because at the moment, we sort of 146 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:53,480 Speaker 2: wake up in the morning and go, Wow, what an 147 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:57,160 Speaker 2: incredible night, and then watch highlights. When the time zones 148 00:07:57,160 --> 00:08:00,280 Speaker 2: are better, we'll be able to watch more content and 149 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:03,400 Speaker 2: consume more hours, and that's good for the broadcaster and 150 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:06,200 Speaker 2: good for the advertiser. And I think in LA will 151 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 2: also see condom manufacturers jumping over themselves to supply the 152 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:14,080 Speaker 2: three hundred thousand condoms required for the Athlete's village as 153 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 2: well too. 154 00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:17,920 Speaker 1: Why do you say that, Ben Oh? 155 00:08:17,960 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 2: I just I've almost fell off my chair when I 156 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:25,120 Speaker 2: read in some way that apparently the IOC has supplied 157 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 2: the Athlete's village with three hundred thousand condoms. 158 00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:31,200 Speaker 1: But I've got to say I did read further into that, 159 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:33,320 Speaker 1: and one of the Australias I think was interviewed and said, 160 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 1: it's not quite what you think, because often if some 161 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:39,280 Speaker 1: of the poorer countries, they hoard the condoms and take 162 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:42,120 Speaker 1: them home because they're actually very difficult to access at home. 163 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:45,480 Speaker 1: And so that made me rethink the three hundred thousand number. 164 00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:48,000 Speaker 1: Actually started thinking maybe they should double that, because if 165 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 1: it's actually a service for people that they can take 166 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:51,959 Speaker 1: home to poorer countries. 167 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:54,040 Speaker 2: Well that could be dangerous. You wouldn't want to be 168 00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:56,360 Speaker 2: in the room next to someone hoarding them. And you 169 00:08:56,400 --> 00:08:57,720 Speaker 2: didn't get your own allegation. 170 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:02,960 Speaker 1: Karkey taking a raader look at the advertising market, like 171 00:09:03,679 --> 00:09:06,560 Speaker 1: how tough is it for traditional media at the moment? 172 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:08,440 Speaker 1: You just said free to wear won't dying. There are 173 00:09:08,559 --> 00:09:12,319 Speaker 1: certainly naysays out there that suggests that it will remain 174 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:15,200 Speaker 1: in some form, But what's the market look like at 175 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 1: the moment, particularly for those legacy products. 176 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:20,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, Look, the ad market is under pressure, and we 177 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 2: report through Standard Media Index, which covers what we think 178 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:26,080 Speaker 2: is about eighty percent of the market, which is most 179 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:30,000 Speaker 2: advertising agencies. And the market's pretty soft at the moment. 180 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:34,760 Speaker 2: I mean, we have just avoided a advertising recession that 181 00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:38,280 Speaker 2: is two quarters of negative growth, but only by a whiska. 182 00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:42,720 Speaker 2: So we are really finding ourselves a few percentage points 183 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:45,439 Speaker 2: down on the same period, or a few percentage points up. 184 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:50,040 Speaker 2: Where really are we really going slowly? What's changing is 185 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 2: the way that money is being allocated. So it's being 186 00:09:53,679 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 2: allocated away from traditional linear TV and traditional linear radio, 187 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:02,480 Speaker 2: and a lot more of it's going into digital outdoor, 188 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:04,680 Speaker 2: a lot more of it's going into catch up TV, 189 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:09,760 Speaker 2: into podcasts, like this podcast. So what we say is 190 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:13,040 Speaker 2: people still watch about two hours of screens every day, 191 00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:15,400 Speaker 2: and they still listen to a lot of audio content. 192 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:18,319 Speaker 2: They just now have the control over where they get 193 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:21,120 Speaker 2: it from. And that trend we're going to continue to 194 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:24,960 Speaker 2: see happen. So as more young people get older and 195 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:27,880 Speaker 2: their habits become the norm, we're just going to see 196 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:30,760 Speaker 2: a lot less people being told what to watch and when, 197 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:34,080 Speaker 2: and they'll choose when they watch and why. We'll also 198 00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:37,400 Speaker 2: see a lot more advertising on Netflix, We'll see it 199 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:41,319 Speaker 2: on Disney Plus, and we'll also see it on other 200 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:44,440 Speaker 2: paid streamers, and that's going to put a lot of 201 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:47,880 Speaker 2: pressure on the video market, and that's going to be 202 00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:51,320 Speaker 2: a really interesting watch, especially for the seven nines and 203 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:54,400 Speaker 2: tens of the world, who will again see more competition 204 00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:57,760 Speaker 2: in an area that they've done pretty well in recently. 205 00:10:58,679 --> 00:11:00,679 Speaker 1: Interesting Ben, thanks for talking to Fear and Greed. 206 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:02,320 Speaker 2: Thanks very much for having me. 207 00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:05,640 Speaker 1: That was Ben Willie, General manager and Media director of 208 00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:09,560 Speaker 1: Spinach Advertising Agency. This is the Fear and Greed Business Interview. 209 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:11,680 Speaker 1: Join us every morning for the full episode of Fear 210 00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:13,920 Speaker 1: and Greed. Daily business years for people who make their 211 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:16,680 Speaker 1: own decisions. I'm Sean Elma enjoy your day.