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Speaker 1: I got a Champs. I'd be good. It's a Sunday afternoon,

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Speaker 1: as young Kelly Smith joins me on the U Project couch,

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Speaker 1: well not really, the U Project Studio, the Virtual Studio,

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Speaker 1: the world of Ta and Y and p hi kel.

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Speaker 2: Hi Graig, How are you going?

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Speaker 1: I'm going good. How has your weekend been?

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Speaker 2: Really good?

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Speaker 1: Really good?

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Speaker 2: Lots of catching up with people, lots of gym, lots

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Speaker 2: of walking. Just got caught in the storm, which was

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Speaker 2: a bit of fun, a bit of fun dodging.

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Speaker 1: All of that. Yes, it's been quite biblical, the weather,

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Speaker 1: it's been quite I've been out most of the afternoon

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Speaker 1: building an arc, like just in case I want to

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Speaker 1: cover all my bases. You know, one hundred and eighty

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Speaker 1: cubits long and forty cubits high. Do you know what

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Speaker 1: a cube it is?

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Speaker 2: I don't.

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Speaker 1: Have you ever heard of that term? Cubits? No?

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Speaker 2: No, I haven't, No, really no, what is it?

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Speaker 1: Nobody needs to know this, but I'll tell you. So.

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Speaker 1: It's biblical measurement in the Old Testament. Of course, when

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Speaker 1: all of my lists have just gone up in biblical references,

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Speaker 1: they've all gone Oh God. So in the yes, literally,

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Speaker 1: oh God. In the Old Testament when Noah's building the arc.

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Speaker 1: I can't remember exactly how long, but it's something like

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Speaker 1: one hundred and sixty or one hundred and eighty cubits

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Speaker 1: And a cubit now, of course this is variable, but

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Speaker 1: it's from the elbow to the fingertip, so obviously that's

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Speaker 1: going to vary a bit person to person. But it's

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Speaker 1: kind of a ballpark unit unit of measurement, and that's

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Speaker 1: how that's how it was measured in those days. Height

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Speaker 1: and width and length was in cubits. See, nobody needs

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Speaker 1: to know that because now we've got centimeters and millimeters

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Speaker 1: which are much more accurate.

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Speaker 2: But a cubit could be fun, I think, because you're

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Speaker 2: always going to be right because it's based on your cubt.

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Speaker 1: Wonder how many cubits tall you are? Well, yeah, right,

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Speaker 1: m Well it's easy for like, say you had to

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Speaker 1: measure your fridge up and you're going the Good Guys

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Speaker 1: to get a new one. Might be difficult getting down

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Speaker 1: on the floor to get you well on the floor,

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Speaker 1: and you might look like a bit of a dick

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Speaker 1: in the showroom at the good Guys. They're like, what

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Speaker 1: are you doing? I'm just checking the cubits of this fridge.

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Speaker 1: Oh it's four and a half cubit soon you. Oh,

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Speaker 1: you're welcome world. That's me on a Sunday afternoon. I'm done,

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Speaker 1: all right, everyone, it's been great. It's five four, three minutes.

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Speaker 1: We're done. There we go drop.

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Speaker 2: That was a cubit sized podcast today, done one cubit.

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Speaker 1: How long was the podcast? It was one cubit from

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Speaker 1: my elbows to my fingertips in terms of time. What

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Speaker 1: are we talking about today? You ran something, you sent

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Speaker 1: me a message and you went, what about this? Then

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Speaker 1: I went, yep, let's open that door because I think

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Speaker 1: I think it's broadly relevant, which we try to be

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Speaker 1: broadly relevant.

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Speaker 2: Well, I hope it is. So for a bit of

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Speaker 2: context and anyone that's heard me on here before, I

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Speaker 2: do have a certain level of anxiety at any given time,

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Speaker 2: and so since being back from my holiday, it's been there.

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Speaker 2: And it's either you know, about a nine or about

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Speaker 2: a two, but it's there, and me being me, I

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Speaker 2: like to ask questions and i'd like to know why.

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Speaker 2: I'd like to give it a name or a label

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Speaker 2: and then fix it. So I've been listening to a

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Speaker 2: few different things, And a consistent theme that's been coming

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Speaker 2: up is the power of positive thinking and whether that

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Speaker 2: is believing in yourself, having a bit of a mantra,

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Speaker 2: having something that you write down actually saying it to yourself,

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Speaker 2: which I kind of think that's a bit it's a

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Speaker 2: little bit out there for me at the moment, but

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Speaker 2: there's a lot of conversations I've been listening to where

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Speaker 2: people are saying it actually works for me. If I,

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Speaker 2: you know, wake up in the morning and the first

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Speaker 2: thing I think is today I'm going to have a

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Speaker 2: great day, then that thought kind of that outweighs our

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Speaker 2: ship what could go wrong? And I just wanted to

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Speaker 2: really get into that and is it something that can

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Speaker 2: be powerful and what else is behind that? Because I

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Speaker 2: feel like, you know, for someone that lives with anxiety,

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Speaker 2: like thoughts are very powerful, but then there's also action,

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Speaker 2: So how do they kind of correlate what could be stronger?

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Speaker 2: Do they do? They kind of outweigh each other?

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Speaker 1: So like, what is it? What is it? Yeah? Is

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Speaker 1: positive thinking like oh, life's great and it'll be great

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Speaker 1: and I'm great. Well that's delusional thinking, that's not positive thinking.

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Speaker 1: So I think, yeah, I think positive thinking is for me,

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Speaker 1: And again this conversation about I actually would not what

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Speaker 1: the technical definition is. But I don't think there's a

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Speaker 1: single definition because it's really a subjective interpretation. But for me,

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Speaker 1: positive thinking is not delusional thinking. It's not pretending that

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Speaker 1: things are always going to turn out great. And you know,

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Speaker 1: life's just an ongoing Disney movie with unicorns and fucking

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Speaker 1: puppies and marshmallows. But you know, life's a shitfest at times,

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Speaker 1: and life's beautiful at times. But I think positive thinking

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Speaker 1: is more about can I manage my mind in a

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Speaker 1: productive and positive way in the middle of things that

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Speaker 1: might not be so positive? Yeah, So in the shitfest,

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Speaker 1: or in the mayhem, or in the unfairness, or in

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Speaker 1: the sadness even can I be the person that copes

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Speaker 1: And I don't always need to thrive. Sometimes I'm just

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Speaker 1: going to survive. Sometimes I'm treading emotional and psychological water,

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Speaker 1: and I'm just trying to keep my metaphoric head above

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Speaker 1: the ocean of shit that's going on around me. So

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Speaker 1: I think that, you know, positive thinking is a convergence

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Speaker 1: of managing our mind and our energy and our emotions

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Speaker 1: and our choices and our self awareness where we are

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Speaker 1: recognizing that things are not always good, or in the moment,

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Speaker 1: we might recognize right now, well, this is a catastrophe.

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Speaker 1: Like for example, I don't know why this came to mind,

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Speaker 1: but you know, when the crab died in the gym,

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Speaker 1: my training partner. If you haven't heard this, and I'm

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Speaker 1: sure most of you have heard it too many times,

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Speaker 1: but like in the middle of all of that, my

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Speaker 1: arm and by the way, I'm not saying I did

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Speaker 1: a great job at all. I'm just saying that in

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Speaker 1: the middle of that, all I could think about was

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Speaker 1: how do I fucking save him? What do I need

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Speaker 1: to do? What's going to work? What do I not

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Speaker 1: need to do? How's the best way to manage this?

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Speaker 1: Blah blah blah. Like everything for me, in the middle

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Speaker 1: of literally somebody dead, literally everything for me was focused

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Speaker 1: on a solution. Everything, like all of my energy, all

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Speaker 1: of my intellect, all of my resources, everything. And I

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Speaker 1: think probably just as much good luck as good management,

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Speaker 1: if I'm being humble and honest, because it could have

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Speaker 1: turned out very differently. But for me, I think being

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Speaker 1: in that moment where the shit's like, it doesn't get

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Speaker 1: any worse than someone dying in front of you. That's it.

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Speaker 1: That's the worst day you're ever going to have. Is

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Speaker 1: your friend dropping dead? Right? What are you doing in

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Speaker 1: the middle of that? And then we can if we go, well,

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Speaker 1: that's a ten, that's a ten. It's probably an eleven

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Speaker 1: out of ten, you know. And then but I think

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Speaker 1: that you know, that's at the extreme end of the scale.

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Speaker 1: But I think it can be. It can be that.

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Speaker 1: It can that be that kind of self management when

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Speaker 1: awareness and regulation of self management of the mind and

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Speaker 1: choices and state. But it also can be all right, well,

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Speaker 1: things aren't going well, and this is not what I

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Speaker 1: wanted to happen. In fact, this is a minor catastrophe.

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Speaker 1: How could I reframe this? So I'm still acknowledging what's

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Speaker 1: going on. I'm not pretending it's good because it's not good.

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Speaker 1: It's not good. There's something bad going on. But it

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Speaker 1: doesn't matter if I run away or I turn the

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Speaker 1: other way. It's still going on. So how do I

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Speaker 1: reframe this? And I might go, look, this is bad,

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Speaker 1: but there are a lot of worse things that could happen.

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Speaker 1: That's a reframe. A reframe might be this is bad,

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Speaker 1: but potentially I'm going to learn something in the middle

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Speaker 1: of this. And I know that sounds cheesy, but I've

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Speaker 1: said this many times and it sounds like a cliche,

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Speaker 1: and I apologize in advance. But for me, it is

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Speaker 1: literally true that the world is my classroom, and that

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Speaker 1: every person that I meet, everything that happens to me

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Speaker 1: or for me, or despite me or around me, everything

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Speaker 1: is a potential lesson. Now, am I always a good student?

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Speaker 1: Of course not. But if you navigate the world through

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Speaker 1: like remember, we all navigate the world through our own lens, right,

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Speaker 1: So something happens, Kelly goes, oh, that's a minor event.

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Speaker 1: Craig goes, that's a fucking catastrophe. Even though we are

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Speaker 1: looking at the same thing, we're seeing an inverted com

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Speaker 1: is something different. That is because of the lens through

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Speaker 1: which I view it and the lens through which you

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Speaker 1: view it. And the thing is that if you think

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Speaker 1: it's a minor speed hump, your stress response is are one.

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Speaker 1: If I think it's a catastrophe the same thing, my

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Speaker 1: stress response is a nine. And neither of those respons

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Speaker 1: are about the thing itself, but rather Kelly and Craig's

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Speaker 1: individual and unique response to the stimulus. I know I'm

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Speaker 1: getting deep and I'm trying not to be too, but

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Speaker 1: this is that, you know, it comes back to how

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Speaker 1: well can I manage my mind? And so I think

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Speaker 1: positive thinking as a concept is a small part of

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Speaker 1: something much bigger, and it's like, you know, it's but

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Speaker 1: it's a great conversation starting point.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think too, it's also down to like,

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Speaker 2: maybe that is just someone's actual starting point, the process

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Speaker 2: of going okay, well today, rather than waking up and thinking, God,

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Speaker 2: what's going to happen? Is what going to be awful?

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Speaker 2: Is that person going to be there? Is someone going

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Speaker 2: to criticize me or offend me? Or is it just

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Speaker 2: as simple as waking up and going today might actually

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Speaker 2: be good? Like is that something that would be a

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Speaker 2: legit and its starting point in the management of the mind.

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Speaker 1: I think a great way to manage the mind in

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Speaker 1: the moment is not to project at all about what

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Speaker 1: might happen today or what might not happen. You're in

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Speaker 1: bed and you're already thinking about hypothetical future problems, right,

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Speaker 1: that's bad. I'm in bed and I'm already thinking about

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Speaker 1: the bad things that could happen. Maybe today that are

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Speaker 1: not happening. Now, what's happening now? Well, now I'm in

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Speaker 1: bed and it's fucking comfortable, and I'm warm, and my

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Speaker 1: little toesies are under the dinner and life is brilliant.

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Speaker 1: But what I'll do is, rather than being in this moment,

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Speaker 1: I'll immerse my physiology in some projected future, bad moment

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Speaker 1: that probably won't happen, and I'll take myself out of

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Speaker 1: the carmen into the chaos or with my own little mind. Again,

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Speaker 1: they mind management one oh one. But that's that's awareness

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Speaker 1: one oh one. Like you think a lot of people,

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Speaker 1: especially people who reach for their phone before they get

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Speaker 1: out of bed, the fucking central nervous system is going nuts.

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Speaker 1: Their fight or flight responses triggered before their feet hit

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Speaker 1: the floor, before they're out of bed. They have already,

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Speaker 1: through their own behavior, stressed themselves. Yeah, so this is

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Speaker 1: where we start to think about objectively, as much as

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Speaker 1: we can be objective. Does my morning protocol serve me

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Speaker 1: or sabotage me? If I'm being brave and honest and aware,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't work? Okay, So don't hate yourself, don't immerse

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Speaker 1: yourself in self loathing. Just go hm well, picking up

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Speaker 1: my phone while I'm still in bed and scrolling and

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Speaker 1: worrying and projecting and thinking about potential future catastrophes is

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Speaker 1: actually me getting in my own way. What could be better?

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Speaker 1: Oh well, maybe I don't even take my fucking phone

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Speaker 1: into the bedroom. Maybe it's down the stairs, in my case,

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Speaker 1: downstairs on the kitchen bench. And after I've had a shower,

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Speaker 1: shit shave, shampoo and jujed my hair, of which there

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Speaker 1: is none, I go downstairs and I turn that motherfucker

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Speaker 1: on thirty minutes after I've woken up, and I'm like, oh,

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Speaker 1: completely different relationship with that thing, and completely different start

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Speaker 1: to my day, and completely different state that I am

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Speaker 1: in by the time I turn it on, or by

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Speaker 1: the time I start to pay attention to things.

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Speaker 2: So you know, at the moment, there's people that have

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Speaker 2: created these little tiles and they stick them like they

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Speaker 2: stick onto your fridge or wherever you want to put them.

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Speaker 2: And the basis of these tiles is that they lock

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Speaker 2: your phone from certain apps, And so if you really

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Speaker 2: really want to get into one of those apps, you

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Speaker 2: have to physically go to wherever this tile is, scan it,

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Speaker 2: and ask you a couple of questions and then it

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Speaker 2: lets you into the phone. And yeah, So obviously there's

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Speaker 2: a lot of people that are in this position because

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Speaker 2: these things wouldn't be created if people had that control

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Speaker 2: over their mind and their reach for their phone, for instance.

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Speaker 2: So there's a booming industry right there that's literally helping

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Speaker 2: people with that control.

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Speaker 1: Do you know that is? Firstly, I didn't know that.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for teaching me something to me. That is

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Speaker 1: somebody who is and I don't blame them, somebody who

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Speaker 1: is exploiting our inability to manage ourselves. Like, here's the thing.

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Speaker 1: If I said to you, Kelly, next time you open Instagram, Like,

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Speaker 1: if you open Instagram anytime in the next what's the

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Speaker 1: app that you use the most? Can I ask? Is

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Speaker 1: it Instagram? Is it? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Probably?

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Speaker 1: Okay? So if I said to you, Kelly, have you

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Speaker 1: got a cat or a dog?

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Speaker 2: A cat?

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Speaker 1: Okay, if you open Instagram anytime in the next seven days,

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Speaker 1: your cat's going to drop dead thirteen seconds later. I

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Speaker 1: know this is a ridiculous example, right, you would have

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Speaker 1: zero problems with self control, absolutely none. Like if that

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Speaker 1: was a and I'm being silly everyone, of course that's

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Speaker 1: going to be fine, right, But here's my example. If

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Speaker 1: in some parallel reality that concept was real. In other words,

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Speaker 1: if you open Instagram in the next seven days, there's

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Speaker 1: going to be a dire consequence. You will have absolutely

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Speaker 1: zero issues with self control, with discipline, with motivation, with focus,

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Speaker 1: You'll have no problems because there's a very significant, undesirable consequence. Now,

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Speaker 1: what that example tells us is that right now Kelly

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Speaker 1: has the ability easily to not look at ig for example, Instagram,

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Speaker 1: for example, for the next seven days if her mind

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Speaker 1: is in the right place. Now, what takes it in

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Speaker 1: this example, Oh, a dire outcome like something that I

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Speaker 1: love being harm Oh, So what does that tell us?

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Speaker 1: It tells us that right now you have the capacity,

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Speaker 1: not soon, not one day, not like you need a

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Speaker 1: pill or you need an app or you need a

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Speaker 1: fucking tile on a fridge. It tells us that you

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Speaker 1: could do it right now. This is that potential. That's

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Speaker 1: what I'm interested in, and that you know that kind

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Speaker 1: of why do people wait until they get sick to

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden they've got all this fucking self control,

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Speaker 1: self restraint, focused, discipline, willpower. And the reason is because

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Speaker 1: now they are so scared of dying or being sick

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Speaker 1: or something catastrophic happened to them. That that that notion

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Speaker 1: of oh, this is optional, that goes this is not optional,

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Speaker 1: there's not no this is compulsory. This is absolute. This

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Speaker 1: is completely fucking non negotiable. So I'll shut up after this.

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Speaker 1: So then you think about, like a thousand times people

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Speaker 1: have told me how disciplined I am, right, usually because

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Speaker 1: I train every day. Oh, you're doing your Somebody told me, like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, two or three days ago, I can't

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Speaker 1: believe how much stuff you do. You work full time,

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Speaker 1: you're doing your doctorate, and you're at the gym every day.

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Speaker 1: Like you're so focused, you're so bloody inspired, you're so

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Speaker 1: all of these things. And I'm like, I'm actually not.

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Speaker 1: I'm actually not that disciplined because I like going to

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Speaker 1: the gym. Discipline would be going to the gym. If

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Speaker 1: I didn't like it, It would take me more discipline

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Speaker 1: to have a week off. And so it's that when

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Speaker 1: you identify the behaviors that, for you, Kelly Smith, are

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Speaker 1: the behaviors that align with who and how you want

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Speaker 1: to be, and then you can turn those behaviors over time,

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Speaker 1: not quickly, but into hardwired habits or hardwired normals in

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Speaker 1: inverted comments like these are normal. This is not me

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Speaker 1: being motivated, this is not me being good. Oh look

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Speaker 1: at me, everyone, I've eaten a fucking salad. Here's a

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Speaker 1: photo on Facebook. Please tell me I'm amazing. All that

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Speaker 1: bullshit is toxic and it's disempowering, not empowering, and everyone thinks, oh, yeah, go,

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Speaker 1: you go you it's kind of good. I get it.

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Speaker 1: I understand the sentiment, but let me tell you, it

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Speaker 1: does not help people build resilience over time. If every

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Speaker 1: time we do something which is just it's not outstanding

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Speaker 1: for you to eat a seal it, that's just what

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Speaker 1: you should do. In this example, if you need a

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Speaker 1: round of applause or a trophy or a cheer squad

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Speaker 1: just for not being a fucking idiot with your body,

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Speaker 1: then we're in trouble. You know what I'm saying. And

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Speaker 1: this is why real resilience and real mental toughness and

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Speaker 1: real self control and real focus and attention, which eventually

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Speaker 1: turns into real change is Nellie always about what we

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Speaker 1: do when no one's looking, when no one gives a fuck,

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Speaker 1: and when no one's cheering. It's so easy to be

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Speaker 1: good in inverted commas when you've got a cheer squad.

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Speaker 1: Show me what the fuck you're doing when there is

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Speaker 1: no cheer squad, when it is not fun, when it

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Speaker 1: is not comfortable, when it is not painless, because they

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Speaker 1: are the times where you are becoming the fucking weapon.

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Speaker 1: That internal transformation doesn't have happen in the spotlight. It

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Speaker 1: happens in the shadows.

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Speaker 2: That actually leads me to something else that I wanted

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Speaker 2: to ask you about as well. And again, just you know,

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Speaker 2: I've been filling my brain with all these different podcasts

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Speaker 2: and interviews over the past probably seven to ten days,

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Speaker 2: and I was at the gym and this is when,

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Speaker 2: you know, I get kind of like my moments of

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Speaker 2: clarity and my moments of bravado, and I'm like, I'm

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Speaker 2: going to text Craig and I'm going to see this

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Speaker 2: is the question that I want, And here I go.

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Speaker 2: And what the phrase was is that everything you want

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Speaker 2: is on the other side of hard. And I thought, okay,

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Speaker 2: but what is hard? Like what does that mean to

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Speaker 2: individual people? And what is it to actually work towards

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Speaker 2: get through know that you're on the other side of it,

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Speaker 2: particularly when you can kind of frame it as what

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Speaker 2: you once thought was hard, you've got to that point

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Speaker 2: and it's not hard anymore because you've been putting in

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Speaker 2: all the work. So that kind of shifts. And then

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Speaker 2: is it you know, is it that the what's the saying?

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Speaker 2: You know that the journey is the destination, So therefore

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Speaker 2: when you're working towards it, that's you know, you're you're

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Speaker 2: either building your muscles, you're training your brain, you're getting fitter. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: that really fascinated me that it was such a blanket

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Speaker 2: statement of everything you want is on the other side

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Speaker 2: of hard.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Also, you've got to remember these memes and cliches

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Speaker 1: and expressions are that they're not They're not universally true

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Speaker 1: for everything in every situation. I mean, there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of you know, there's a lot of beauty and joy

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Speaker 1: and awesomeness right where we are right now, and maybe

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Speaker 1: that came through toil and pain and hardship, who knows.

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Speaker 1: But as a concept, I think there's a lot. I

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Speaker 1: think there's a lot of truth in it in that,

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Speaker 1: you know what, most people who are listening to this,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to be presumptuous, but I think I know

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Speaker 1: my audience pretty well, and I think a lot of

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Speaker 1: the people who listen to this want growth and improvement

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Speaker 1: and change, transformation whatever they want to. As I always say,

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Speaker 1: think better, do better, produce better, create better, make better decisions,

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Speaker 1: produce better outcomes. All of that is development and evolution

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Speaker 1: and growth. And I think if we try to analyze

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Speaker 1: evolution and growth and development, where do those Where do

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Speaker 1: those things happen? Or they happen in the middle of

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Speaker 1: the doing, and generally the doing is pretty or it

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Speaker 1: can be tough and uncomfortable, or in the context of

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Speaker 1: your question, it can be in the middle of the hard.

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Speaker 1: And as you quite rightly point out, it's like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: maybe it's not just on the other you know. It's

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Speaker 1: like you go to the gym, you work hard, you

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Speaker 1: do that three months, six months. The net result is

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Speaker 1: you build muscle, you improve function, you improve range of movement,

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Speaker 1: you lose body fat, you change your body composition, and

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Speaker 1: now your body looks and feels and functions better than

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Speaker 1: it did. And now you've got this reward on the

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Speaker 1: other side of the three to six months that you

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Speaker 1: just put in. Beautiful, that's a great example. Now my

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Speaker 1: body works better looks better, feels better, recovers better, sleeps better.

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Speaker 1: All this shit that is a byproduct of doing the

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Speaker 1: hard right. So that's a physiological outcome, But what is

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Speaker 1: also true is what's what's acquired and what's achieved in

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Speaker 1: the middle of the hard, Like, well, here, yes, I

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Speaker 1: did all of these things, and I changed my body,

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Speaker 1: But guess what else. I changed my thinking, I changed

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Speaker 1: my default setting, I changed my standards, I changed my

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Speaker 1: capacity to deal with hard stuff. I built my resilience.

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Speaker 1: I've built my knowledge and confidence and awareness in this

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Speaker 1: environment that I wasn't very confident in. And now I

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Speaker 1: walk into the gym like a fucking gangster. Six months

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Speaker 1: after I crawled in and I didn't want anyone to

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Speaker 1: see me right, and my self esteem was through the

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Speaker 1: flo And it's not like now I've got a fat head,

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Speaker 1: but it's like now I know that I'm okay, I

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Speaker 1: know I'm not useless, I know that I'm I belong there,

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Speaker 1: and I feel so emotionally and mentally there's been this

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Speaker 1: shift as well as this physiologic of this observable outcome

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Speaker 1: that is my body. We could say that with me

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Speaker 1: doing a PhD, it's like, sure, I've spoken about the

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Speaker 1: term all the academic and psychologic and emotional and sociological

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Speaker 1: turmoil of the first year or two for me, where

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Speaker 1: I felt like a total fraud, and I may have

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Speaker 1: even been one and not not anything enough. Right, But

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Speaker 1: now you go, well, fuck Craig. Six years later, surely

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Speaker 1: there's been some growth. There has There has, And it's

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Speaker 1: not because I'm special or great. It's because I just

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Speaker 1: kept showing up. And now am I a brilliant academic?

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Speaker 1: One hundred percent? Not? Am I a way better academic

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Speaker 1: than I was? Yes? Do I understand things that I

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Speaker 1: did not? One hundred percent? Do I have more skill

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Speaker 1: and knowledge and context than a different perspective? I absolutely do.

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Speaker 1: Oh how did that happen? Just lucky Nope, just kept

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Speaker 1: fucking showing up doing this hard thing, you know, and

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Speaker 1: then you come out and you go, all right, cool,

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Speaker 1: doctor Harp's fantastic, that's nice, well done, good fur ego.

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Speaker 1: You know, Melissa's looking forward to booking me air tickets

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Speaker 1: under doctor Harper, which is fucking hilarious, and all of

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Speaker 1: that's very nice. But really what is great is kind

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Speaker 1: of the internal stuff that I've gained, the confidence and

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Speaker 1: the understanding and the knowledge in the awareness and the

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Speaker 1: increased capacity to serve and help like there, and it

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Speaker 1: happens during it. And yes, they're on the other side

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Speaker 1: of in this case the PhD or the previous example,

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Speaker 1: six months in the gym, which hopefully becomes forever in

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Speaker 1: the gym for most people. Yeah, there is a reward

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Speaker 1: on the other side of hard, but I think there's

428
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:38,280
Speaker 1: also a reward in the middle of hard. I don't

429
00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:40,359
Speaker 1: think we need to put it. I don't think the

430
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:45,119
Speaker 1: benefits are you know, exclusive to post event.

431
00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 2: No, I don't think that there's And this is why

432
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:50,240
Speaker 2: I wanted to talk about it with you, because I

433
00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:54,080
Speaker 2: don't think that there's a point of it being final,

434
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:56,399
Speaker 2: like for me and I know for a lot of

435
00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:59,520
Speaker 2: other people that I talk with and who I listened to,

436
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:03,920
Speaker 2: it's it's constant the work. So therefore the concept of hard,

437
00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:08,440
Speaker 2: it just keeps shifting and it's what you interpret hard

438
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:11,600
Speaker 2: to be. And I feel like if you're constantly looking

439
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:14,880
Speaker 2: at it like, oh my god, that's so hard, you're

440
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:18,520
Speaker 2: never going to get anywhere. But if it's just okay, well,

441
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:21,600
Speaker 2: I'm putting in the work, and as you say, I'm

442
00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:25,600
Speaker 2: showing up. Then that idea of it being hard becomes,

443
00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:29,520
Speaker 2: as you say, like you're default, like you're just you're existing,

444
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:31,880
Speaker 2: You're doing, you're doing what it is to be you,

445
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:36,359
Speaker 2: and the constant growth and the constant learning, and that's yeah. Again,

446
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:38,439
Speaker 2: that's why I wanted to discuss it, because it just

447
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:41,679
Speaker 2: I remember listening to it and I thought, that's just

448
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:47,399
Speaker 2: such a blanket statement that I actually didn't agree with.

449
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:49,399
Speaker 2: And it's not often that I will listen to things

450
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:52,199
Speaker 2: and go, you know what, like, I don't agree with that,

451
00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:54,479
Speaker 2: and who am I even say I don't agree with it?

452
00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:58,200
Speaker 1: But I just thought, you know, okay, stop right now.

453
00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:03,320
Speaker 1: You you're thinking, and your opinion, and your is just

454
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:07,480
Speaker 1: as valuable as any fucking person. Be it Oprah, be

455
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:09,720
Speaker 1: it doctor Phil, be it me. I'm not putting me

456
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 1: in that category. But you know this is the thing,

457
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:15,120
Speaker 1: like you, I'm not saying this just because we're here.

458
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:18,000
Speaker 1: I think you know this. I think you've got a

459
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:20,720
Speaker 1: brilliant mind. I think what gets in the way of

460
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:23,119
Speaker 1: your brilliant mind is your fear. And I feel like

461
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:25,240
Speaker 1: I'm coaching you now, but you know that this is

462
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:30,320
Speaker 1: not a revelation. And I think I think I hope

463
00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:33,760
Speaker 1: you're comfortable with me saying I think you doing these

464
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:37,000
Speaker 1: shows with me where we've I mean this with complete respect.

465
00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:40,160
Speaker 1: Just got a regular human just sitting and asking me stuff. Right,

466
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:43,920
Speaker 1: you being the regular but gifted, brilliant human. Right, this

467
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:47,800
Speaker 1: is hard for you. And let's go full disclosure and

468
00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:50,880
Speaker 1: full vulnerability. Last time we did one, at the end,

469
00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:53,840
Speaker 1: you're like, I think I was a bit shit. I'm like,

470
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:57,639
Speaker 1: you definitely weren't shit. But but that wasn't the best

471
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:01,199
Speaker 1: one we've done, right, and so but it was fine,

472
00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:03,359
Speaker 1: it was fine. But how do you get great? Well,

473
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:06,440
Speaker 1: you start by being not great, you know, and it's

474
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:09,879
Speaker 1: not great compared to it's great for Kelly, or it's

475
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:13,399
Speaker 1: great for Craig or this is me, you know. And

476
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:18,639
Speaker 1: also think about this, like if we have asked the

477
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:23,560
Speaker 1: world famous just recently invented right now, Craig Harper Hard scale,

478
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:26,080
Speaker 1: the one to ten, let's go the one to seven

479
00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:30,479
Speaker 1: like art scale, the Craig Harper Hard scale, and we go, Kelly,

480
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:33,399
Speaker 1: how hard is this thing for you? It's just a

481
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:36,679
Speaker 1: subjective rating, and you go, oh fuck, that's a seven.

482
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:41,600
Speaker 1: That's a seven. I'm like, cool, So let's go to work,

483
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:44,680
Speaker 1: and let's keep doing this thing. Let's develop whatever the

484
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:47,120
Speaker 1: thing is, let's get better at it, let's understand it,

485
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:51,960
Speaker 1: let's try it different ways, let's let's let's invest some

486
00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:54,520
Speaker 1: time in it. And then then a month later you're

487
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:56,920
Speaker 1: doing the same thing. I'm like, Kelly, how hard is

488
00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:00,720
Speaker 1: this for you? Now? You go three and I'm like,

489
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 1: oh wow. And then I come back, you know, three

490
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 1: months down the track, and I go, how hard is

491
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:12,120
Speaker 1: it now? And you go, It's not hard at all,

492
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:15,720
Speaker 1: Like it's a zero, it's not hard. I go, well,

493
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:20,200
Speaker 1: what do you mean? See? Because hard, like, nothing is

494
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:25,280
Speaker 1: hard until there's a person in front of it describing it. Yeah.

495
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:27,520
Speaker 1: You know, there are people that go through shit which

496
00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 1: I'm like, how how on earth do they get through that?

497
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 1: And they get through it, and it might yeah, it

498
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 1: might be hard, but it might be a too hard

499
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:37,480
Speaker 1: for them two out of ten, or it might be

500
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:40,400
Speaker 1: someone else at fifteen out of ten. But the thing is,

501
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:46,400
Speaker 1: you're your understanding of hard or we could say difficult

502
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:50,120
Speaker 1: or adversity or painful, or they're all kind of first

503
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:53,720
Speaker 1: cousins in the adjective kind of fucking world. We go

504
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 1: your relationship with that or your perspective of that changes

505
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:02,920
Speaker 1: when you're different. Yes, what we're saying is this is

506
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:06,200
Speaker 1: not hard. Categorically we're saying this is hard for me.

507
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:13,320
Speaker 1: Ah ah, okay, like lifting one hundred whatevers easy. Oh

508
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:16,200
Speaker 1: not for that bloke, For that bloke, it's impossible. For

509
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:19,680
Speaker 1: that bloke over there, it's super easy. Or for that

510
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:22,160
Speaker 1: girl this run is a piece of cake. For that

511
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:27,280
Speaker 1: other girl or lady, it's impossible. For Kelly, it's solid.

512
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:32,240
Speaker 1: So things are whatever they are to us, you know.

513
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:34,600
Speaker 1: So when you go this is scary, the truth is

514
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 1: this is scary for me now, but it might not

515
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:39,840
Speaker 1: be scary for me in a month. Or this is

516
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 1: heavy now, but if I train, and I use progressive overload,

517
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:46,280
Speaker 1: this scientific principle I eat well, train well, recover well,

518
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:50,080
Speaker 1: use my brain, this heavyweight will not be heavy for

519
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:53,520
Speaker 1: me soon, despite the fact that it's a constant and

520
00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 1: I'm the variable. Oh fuck, Kelly, come on, come on, brothers.

521
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:03,520
Speaker 2: And then suddenly we're building like either the you know,

522
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:06,800
Speaker 2: the physical muscle or the mental muscle, which is exactly

523
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 2: what's happened for me during all of this. So yeah,

524
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:12,200
Speaker 2: and I did come off an episode with you and

525
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:17,080
Speaker 2: I thought oh my god, like I've just actually messaged

526
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:19,160
Speaker 2: Tiff and I went, I think I just shit the bed,

527
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:21,200
Speaker 2: and she goes, what the fuck are you talking about?

528
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:24,960
Speaker 2: And then I listened to it back and I thought, no, okay, yep,

529
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:28,360
Speaker 2: well I can I can learn from this and I

530
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:32,920
Speaker 2: can see what I can do differently, And that was

531
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 2: that was good. It was good for me because it

532
00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:39,239
Speaker 2: wasn't just you know, here I am and you know

533
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:42,160
Speaker 2: I'm wonderful straight out of the gate. It's no, this

534
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:46,560
Speaker 2: is it's a constant evolution of learning and growing. And

535
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:52,040
Speaker 2: I guess the idea of positive thinking comes into that

536
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 2: for me because I'm really I've said it many times,

537
00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:59,240
Speaker 2: like I'm really enjoying doing all of this, and then

538
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:02,640
Speaker 2: it comes to a few other things at the moment

539
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:05,920
Speaker 2: it's like, well, how do I flip my thinking so

540
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 2: that I'm enjoying it just as much and I'm bringing

541
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:14,840
Speaker 2: the same enthusiasm and slowly chipping away at that going

542
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:17,760
Speaker 2: you know what, like, yeah, I was terrified the first

543
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:19,280
Speaker 2: time I put it out there, of you know, hey,

544
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:22,840
Speaker 2: can I come and ask you the questions? And it's

545
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:28,000
Speaker 2: now just having I guess that is it bravado to

546
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:31,280
Speaker 2: just kind of go in every other situation, Hey, can

547
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:34,920
Speaker 2: I just step into this space whether I'm ready to

548
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 2: or not, and just do it? And you said to

549
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 2: me recently, you know, here's a thought, just do it scared,

550
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:48,160
Speaker 2: And that's really stuck with me. And so the idea

551
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:51,880
Speaker 2: of just doing it scared is it's actually bringing some

552
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:54,840
Speaker 2: and you know you won't be surprised by this, it's

553
00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 2: bringing some results because I'm just you know, just dipping

554
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:01,640
Speaker 2: my toe in there saying, you know, I'm not ready,

555
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:05,080
Speaker 2: but if I wait to be ready, I'll never be there.

556
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:08,080
Speaker 2: And then, you know, to go back to what we

557
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:11,320
Speaker 2: were just talking about, everything will always seem hard if

558
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:12,640
Speaker 2: I don't give it a crack.

559
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:16,600
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, And if you if you are not, and

560
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:18,959
Speaker 1: I'm talking to you and our listeners, if you are

561
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:25,120
Speaker 1: not doing hard things pretty regularly, then there's a fair

562
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:28,520
Speaker 1: chance that you are being controlled by, if not at

563
00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:32,560
Speaker 1: the very least limited by fear. Right, A lot of

564
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:36,480
Speaker 1: the things that I need to do to get where

565
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:38,080
Speaker 1: I want to go and do what I want to

566
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:40,720
Speaker 1: do are not the things that I want to do,

567
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:45,240
Speaker 1: especially initially, because what I want to do is I

568
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:48,280
Speaker 1: want to be comfortable. What I want to do is

569
00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:50,520
Speaker 1: a cake what I want to do, you know what

570
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:52,720
Speaker 1: I'm saying. It's like if it was just about what

571
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:57,000
Speaker 1: is comfortable for me or familiar for me or easy

572
00:33:57,120 --> 00:33:59,960
Speaker 1: for me, which of course is the preferred option general,

573
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 1: But there's no you know for me, there's no growth

574
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 1: in that, and there's no you know. And it's not

575
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:10,520
Speaker 1: that every day has got to be this day of

576
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:12,560
Speaker 1: it's got to be every day. It's got to be

577
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:16,160
Speaker 1: a day of bloody conquering mountains and striving and grinding.

578
00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:19,920
Speaker 1: And you know, I've said I happily have fuck all

579
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 1: days where I do fuck all, achieve fuck all, and

580
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:25,319
Speaker 1: you know, all of that's great. But I think for

581
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:28,840
Speaker 1: the most part, most of the time, most of us

582
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:34,400
Speaker 1: who are in this personal development you know, growth mindset

583
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:38,560
Speaker 1: kind of human behavior space where we're really thinking about

584
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:40,640
Speaker 1: what we do and why we do it and how

585
00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:43,600
Speaker 1: we are and who we are, most of us want

586
00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:46,920
Speaker 1: to be evolving, you know, or at the very least

587
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:52,280
Speaker 1: eliminating shitty behaviors that hold us back, you know, eliminating

588
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:55,200
Speaker 1: not all You're never going to eliminate all self doubt

589
00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:58,319
Speaker 1: and overthinking, but let's turn the volume down on that shit.

590
00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:02,759
Speaker 1: A little bit, and and you know, realize that like

591
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:08,920
Speaker 1: every podcast that I do, every podcast there are, if

592
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:11,239
Speaker 1: I went back and listened, the reason I don't listen

593
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:14,279
Speaker 1: is because I don't like listening. I've I would say,

594
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:18,200
Speaker 1: I've listened to one podcast in totality of my own,

595
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:22,960
Speaker 1: like start, Finish so, and there's over two thousand. I

596
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:25,279
Speaker 1: don't listen because I don't love my own voice. I

597
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:30,640
Speaker 1: don't like my own voice just like everyone else. And

598
00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:33,680
Speaker 1: I just find too many things wrong with every fucking episode.

599
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:38,239
Speaker 1: But I realize that there's no bigger It's like when

600
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:42,160
Speaker 1: people criticize me, I'm like, try harder. There's no harsher

601
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:45,200
Speaker 1: critic of me than me. He can say whatever you want.

602
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 1: It's like you think, you think that I'm like I

603
00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:51,960
Speaker 1: And it's like sometimes people like you're a dumbcunt. I'm like, yep,

604
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:55,560
Speaker 1: sure I agree, and then they've got nowhere to go.

605
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:58,239
Speaker 1: I go, you are right, or you fucked that up.

606
00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:00,200
Speaker 1: I'm like, yes, I did you got that wrong? Yes

607
00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:02,960
Speaker 1: I did get that wrong. And I will get more

608
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:05,799
Speaker 1: things wrong and I will fuck up, but I tell

609
00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:08,439
Speaker 1: you what, I won't I won't give up. That's it.

610
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:12,200
Speaker 1: Like I'm not giving up. So you can say all

611
00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:15,480
Speaker 1: the shit you want to me, but you cannot hijack

612
00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:20,760
Speaker 1: my brain. You cannot, you cannot kill my spirit because

613
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:24,439
Speaker 1: that's just me wanting to keep doing what I'm doing,

614
00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:28,200
Speaker 1: and that is optional. So all the names, all the criticism,

615
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:31,359
Speaker 1: I don't love it, but I've had it. I'm used

616
00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:35,040
Speaker 1: to it. Fortunately these days we're wh're got the wind

617
00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:37,400
Speaker 1: behind our back and we've actually got more people that

618
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:40,759
Speaker 1: like us than don't, which is thanks, by the way, Thanks,

619
00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:45,960
Speaker 1: that's nice. You know, there's more niceness than nastiness, but

620
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:50,000
Speaker 1: that you know, ability to go, well, I'm scared, and

621
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:53,160
Speaker 1: that's all right. This will be hard. I don't kind

622
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:54,360
Speaker 1: of want to do it, but I'm going to do

623
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:58,040
Speaker 1: it nonetheless because i want the outcome of what doing

624
00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:00,440
Speaker 1: that hard thing brings me or I think will bring me.

625
00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:04,000
Speaker 1: And this is just I think this is just part

626
00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:09,480
Speaker 1: of the being very very grounded and practical about how

627
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:14,200
Speaker 1: growth works. Like how growth works is it's fucking hard

628
00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:17,680
Speaker 1: the end. Sometimes it's not so, but a lot of

629
00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:22,560
Speaker 1: times it's fucking hard. It's uncomfortable, it's inconvenient, and they

630
00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:26,160
Speaker 1: are all things that people don't want. Then as I've

631
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:29,040
Speaker 1: said a hundred times, a thousand times, that's the dichotomy.

632
00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:32,280
Speaker 1: On the one hand, people want to change, grow, learn, evolve,

633
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:35,640
Speaker 1: get better. On the other hand, they want to stay comfortable.

634
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:39,440
Speaker 1: Fucking make a choice, bro.

635
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:42,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's where all the hard work comes in or not,

636
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:46,719
Speaker 2: depending on what choice you make. I'm going to ask

637
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:49,439
Speaker 2: you something that might be a bit of a out

638
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:52,600
Speaker 2: there philosophical question, but I think it goes hand in

639
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:57,960
Speaker 2: hand with different levels of managing your mind, and that is,

640
00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:01,799
Speaker 2: what do you think of manifesting? And I asked this

641
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:06,359
Speaker 2: because I had a conversation with someone recently who very

642
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:10,520
Speaker 2: strongly believes in the power of manifesting their thoughts. And

643
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:13,000
Speaker 2: I said, well, explain it to me, Like, do I

644
00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:16,600
Speaker 2: just have to think that I can do something? And

645
00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:19,080
Speaker 2: like if I think on it enough, if I really

646
00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:22,280
Speaker 2: believe it, then there's kind of a possibility that will happen.

647
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:26,239
Speaker 2: And he said, no, no, no, it's actually knowing that

648
00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:30,160
Speaker 2: you can do it. It's actually visualizing yourself with what

649
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:33,719
Speaker 2: it is that you want. And he has quite a

650
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:38,160
Speaker 2: successful business that's released many different products, and he said,

651
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:43,759
Speaker 2: I wouldn't have what I have without inherently believing and

652
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:48,680
Speaker 2: knowing and almost picturing in my mind's eye me doing

653
00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:52,759
Speaker 2: that and having that and building that and working towards that.

654
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:58,600
Speaker 2: And I thought, whether or not that's true. I found

655
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:02,879
Speaker 2: it really inspiring that he had that belief in himself

656
00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:06,319
Speaker 2: and was obviously putting in the work. But it was

657
00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:09,719
Speaker 2: the work going hand in hand with the belief.

658
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:14,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, so belief by itself will do fuck all law

659
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:17,040
Speaker 1: of attraction manifesting. If all you're doing is sitting on

660
00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:21,040
Speaker 1: the couch thinking, knowing that you can be successful while

661
00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:25,080
Speaker 1: not doing any work to be successful, it doesn't work.

662
00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:29,759
Speaker 1: So the key there is that you said that he

663
00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:33,799
Speaker 1: did the work, that he made decisions. Now, really, what

664
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:37,200
Speaker 1: I think you're talking about. What he's figured out is

665
00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:41,759
Speaker 1: that self belief matters. So he believed he could do

666
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:44,960
Speaker 1: it before he did it. That's good. I like that.

667
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:48,719
Speaker 1: Most people almost need to do it before they have

668
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:51,920
Speaker 1: any self belief. But I think if you can, I mean,

669
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:56,680
Speaker 1: and of course we need this to be logical. If

670
00:39:56,680 --> 00:39:59,280
Speaker 1: I know that I can run a two hour marathon,

671
00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:02,399
Speaker 1: well I'm elluded because I cannot run a two hour

672
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:06,239
Speaker 1: marathon like I think. Then I think this inspiration and

673
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:13,799
Speaker 1: this self belief needs to be moderated with logic and strategy.

674
00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:18,240
Speaker 1: But you know, speaking of you know, back to positive thinking.

675
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:22,960
Speaker 1: You know, I can do this, I can do that.

676
00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:27,879
Speaker 1: That's positive thinking. And if this dude spends time sitting

677
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:32,000
Speaker 1: on the couch thinking these things. But also I'm not

678
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:34,000
Speaker 1: against that by the way people think I would hate

679
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:36,959
Speaker 1: I don't hate that at all. I think, fuck yeah,

680
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:40,600
Speaker 1: you know. But and this is why we need to go.

681
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:42,920
Speaker 1: When I was about to say to you, what do

682
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:45,279
Speaker 1: you mean by that, because I can't tell you what

683
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:50,279
Speaker 1: I think of something that hasn't been clarified. But when

684
00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:53,520
Speaker 1: you explain it that way and his process, see, here's

685
00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:56,239
Speaker 1: the difference between a lot of law of attraction. And

686
00:40:56,280 --> 00:41:01,319
Speaker 1: this is just my understanding. Well, and maybe this is

687
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:03,160
Speaker 1: wrong because I've never done a deep dive, but it

688
00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:06,080
Speaker 1: kind of sounds like at times that some people are

689
00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:08,960
Speaker 1: saying that we focus on it, we belive that and

690
00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:13,879
Speaker 1: it will come to you ergo attraction. Well, I kind

691
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:15,319
Speaker 1: of think for the most part, we've got to go

692
00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:18,480
Speaker 1: to it. We've got to go fucking chase it, find it,

693
00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:22,719
Speaker 1: grind it, build it, create it, and then inhabit it.

694
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:29,360
Speaker 1: You know, like I could have sat downstairs in my studio.

695
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:33,880
Speaker 1: I'm upstairs in my office right now, everyone thinking I

696
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:38,560
Speaker 1: deserve a successful podcast. And the first podcast that I did,

697
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:42,040
Speaker 1: the Australian Fitness podcast, didn't work, and then the next

698
00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:44,160
Speaker 1: one that I did didn't work. If we're talking about

699
00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:47,200
Speaker 1: being a successful commercial enterprise, didn't work, and then the

700
00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:50,440
Speaker 1: next one didn't work. And then the you projects started

701
00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:54,319
Speaker 1: two years after the first go right two years and

702
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:57,880
Speaker 1: then two years later, So that's four years of podcasting.

703
00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:01,399
Speaker 1: I'm still not making money right. There's no fucking law

704
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:04,319
Speaker 1: of attraction there. This is me just working like a motherfucker,

705
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:09,000
Speaker 1: trying to learn, trying to build something Like you need

706
00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:13,879
Speaker 1: to go to it. I think you need to be

707
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:16,480
Speaker 1: the what you need to be the one going to

708
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:19,000
Speaker 1: rather than it coming to you. I think a bit

709
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:22,600
Speaker 1: of both. But yeah, I think if the mindset stuff

710
00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:26,280
Speaker 1: is only mindset with no action plan, with no behavior,

711
00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:32,120
Speaker 1: with no courage, uh, it's it's ain't going to produce anything.

712
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:35,719
Speaker 1: But if you have that, you know that law of attraction,

713
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:41,040
Speaker 1: positive affirmation, whole thing going on and by the way,

714
00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:44,080
Speaker 1: not mad at it at all, and you have that

715
00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:50,799
Speaker 1: kind of that is intertwined with strategy and logic and

716
00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:55,640
Speaker 1: work and courage and effort and consistency, then you can

717
00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:58,720
Speaker 1: do something special. I think it's part of the puzzle

718
00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:02,799
Speaker 1: or part of a solution. It's not a solution on

719
00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:03,319
Speaker 1: its own.

720
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:06,759
Speaker 2: No. No, And even in just you know, explaining it

721
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:09,600
Speaker 2: to you just then, it was it just absolutely light

722
00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:11,920
Speaker 2: bulb moment of No, he's actually doing the work as

723
00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:16,560
Speaker 2: well as believing in himself. So when you were just

724
00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:20,279
Speaker 2: mentioning that you started off with two other podcasts before this,

725
00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:24,360
Speaker 2: did you always believe in yourself that it would go

726
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:27,520
Speaker 2: somewhere or were there moments that you were like, oh

727
00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:29,120
Speaker 2: my god, what am I doing?

728
00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:33,160
Speaker 1: Okay, that's a very good question, so I'm going to

729
00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:36,960
Speaker 1: be very specific about my answer. I always knew that

730
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:39,160
Speaker 1: I could. I didn't know that I would.

731
00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:44,440
Speaker 2: Okay, I surround that for you though.

732
00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:47,320
Speaker 1: Well, I knew that I had the ability and the talent.

733
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:52,200
Speaker 1: Well I thought I did, and I thought I had

734
00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:56,520
Speaker 1: that kind of personality and people skills. And it's not like, wow,

735
00:43:56,600 --> 00:43:59,360
Speaker 1: look at us. Now, We're in fucking nine hundred countries

736
00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:01,600
Speaker 1: and we turn on six million a month. Right, So

737
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:04,680
Speaker 1: I'm just a shitkicker in Melbourne who's got a pretty

738
00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:07,759
Speaker 1: good podcast. Right, So that's it. Let's not get too

739
00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:14,040
Speaker 1: ahead of ourselves. But I was, by the way, I've

740
00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:17,200
Speaker 1: been sure about many things and been wrong. But for

741
00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:19,400
Speaker 1: what it's worth, I was sure that I could do it,

742
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:21,720
Speaker 1: but I didn't know if I if it would happen.

743
00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:24,920
Speaker 1: Like I'll give you another example of things that I

744
00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:27,160
Speaker 1: know that I could do, but I probably never will.

745
00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:31,480
Speaker 1: So I've done bits and pieces of Telly, as you know.

746
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:33,719
Speaker 1: So I worked on Channel ten for a while, a

747
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:39,640
Speaker 1: weekly gig, and from when I started that, people like, oh,

748
00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:43,160
Speaker 1: you're good on Telly. Telly, Telly works for you. You're

749
00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:46,320
Speaker 1: going to end up doing TV. And to be honest,

750
00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:49,160
Speaker 1: it wasn't like a driving passion of mine. It just

751
00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:52,239
Speaker 1: ended up where every time I did TV, nearly every time,

752
00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:54,080
Speaker 1: I got pretty good feedback and I'm like, well, maybe

753
00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:57,520
Speaker 1: I could do this. And then I got offered to

754
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:04,080
Speaker 1: screen tests for a pilot for the ABC called The

755
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:07,840
Speaker 1: Life Coach, and so I flew to Sydney and I

756
00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:12,600
Speaker 1: did this whole pilot program, or I did recorded a show.

757
00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:15,160
Speaker 1: It was a pilot and it was with myself and

758
00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:18,480
Speaker 1: another lady. I was kind of the lead, kind of

759
00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:21,920
Speaker 1: I guess driving host and she was like a co host.

760
00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:26,279
Speaker 1: But great. I think there was about seventy people in

761
00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:29,200
Speaker 1: the room, live audience. Blah blah blah. Went great, It

762
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:33,719
Speaker 1: went really well. And a production company was doing it

763
00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:38,560
Speaker 1: for the ABC. And this was kind of like my interview,

764
00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:42,839
Speaker 1: like a high level interview like camera's light's action real.

765
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:46,480
Speaker 1: It was recorded as a real episode. And even I

766
00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:48,719
Speaker 1: came away thinking in fact that I did Alright, that

767
00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:51,399
Speaker 1: was pretty good. That was like my natural habit, that's

768
00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:54,160
Speaker 1: me doing that. And then I came away from that

769
00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:57,160
Speaker 1: and the people that you know, they're like, that was great.

770
00:45:57,640 --> 00:46:00,600
Speaker 1: It's not a matter of if, but just when thumbs

771
00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:05,399
Speaker 1: up every like slaps on the back obviously never happened, right,

772
00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:09,040
Speaker 1: and so things like that. Where do I know that

773
00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:13,719
Speaker 1: I could do something like that? Yeah, well do I know?

774
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:16,640
Speaker 1: I don't. Well, I did one, right, I'm pretty sure

775
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:18,839
Speaker 1: I could do I think that will I will ever

776
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:22,120
Speaker 1: get that opportunity? No, I don't do I think I

777
00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:24,560
Speaker 1: could talk to ten thousand people at Rod Laver Arena

778
00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:28,560
Speaker 1: for three hours and do a good job. I do

779
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:30,960
Speaker 1: I think I could do that? Do I think I

780
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:34,040
Speaker 1: will ever do that? Get that chance? Probably? Not right,

781
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:40,040
Speaker 1: So that's not me being egotistical or me beating myself up.

782
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:42,600
Speaker 1: Do I think I could go and sing for a

783
00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:45,279
Speaker 1: hundred people and be good? No? Do I think I

784
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:48,000
Speaker 1: could do all the shit that Melissa can do with tech? No?

785
00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:51,360
Speaker 1: Do I think I could do stand up comedy for

786
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:53,720
Speaker 1: half an hour and be funny? No? Because I'd shit

787
00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:59,000
Speaker 1: myself and I'm too fucking terrified. Right, Look, maybe I could.

788
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:01,319
Speaker 1: I don't know. But like, there are things that I'm

789
00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:03,480
Speaker 1: pretty sure I could do that I will never do

790
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:07,120
Speaker 1: and that's okay. And there are things that I didn't

791
00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:09,279
Speaker 1: think I could do that it turns out I can.

792
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:14,360
Speaker 1: That have been a gift and yeah, it's like I

793
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:17,280
Speaker 1: think and all of that's okay. It's like I'm gonna

794
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:19,640
Speaker 1: be good at some things and terrible at other things

795
00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:26,080
Speaker 1: and yeah, cool, Like yep, it's like we don't. Well,

796
00:47:26,120 --> 00:47:27,919
Speaker 1: you don't have to be good at everything. You can

797
00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:30,720
Speaker 1: be a complete fuck up and still a great human.

798
00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:34,640
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Kelly can't sing for shit, but fuck I

799
00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:38,000
Speaker 1: love her. She's hilarious and awesome and she's my friend.

800
00:47:38,080 --> 00:47:41,160
Speaker 1: But she sings like a fucking cats, you know.

801
00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:44,200
Speaker 2: Or whatever, it's true, I do I do.

802
00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:47,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, or you know, like I've got friends that are

803
00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:50,799
Speaker 1: really smart but not fucking funny at all. I'm like, dude,

804
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:55,360
Speaker 1: you are a genius. Please don't tell a joke like stop,

805
00:47:55,719 --> 00:47:58,680
Speaker 1: You're not fucking funny, you know.

806
00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:02,759
Speaker 2: I put that in the same category like that awareness

807
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:07,400
Speaker 2: of I probably could, but it's whether or not I would.

808
00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:10,440
Speaker 2: That to me is kind of like not having the

809
00:48:10,520 --> 00:48:13,440
Speaker 2: answer to everything, and I find that a really humbling

810
00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:17,560
Speaker 2: thing as well, Like there's i'd heard it said, you

811
00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:20,120
Speaker 2: know that one of the most intelligent things to say

812
00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:23,040
Speaker 2: is I don't know when you actually don't know something,

813
00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:26,880
Speaker 2: rather than trying to fudge it. And I experienced that

814
00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:29,680
Speaker 2: at a work event a few weeks ago where someone

815
00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:32,960
Speaker 2: he was presenting he was asked a question and just

816
00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:36,479
Speaker 2: immediately said, I don't know the answer to that yet,

817
00:48:37,160 --> 00:48:38,880
Speaker 2: but leave it with me and I'll come back to you.

818
00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:41,279
Speaker 2: And I just thought, well done. And he came up

819
00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:43,239
Speaker 2: to me afterwards and I said, you know what, like,

820
00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:47,040
Speaker 2: if you had have tried to have made something up

821
00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:49,560
Speaker 2: on the spot, they would have eaten you alive. So

822
00:48:49,600 --> 00:48:51,799
Speaker 2: it was so good for you to actually admit that

823
00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:54,719
Speaker 2: you didn't know the answer and actually get them on

824
00:48:54,880 --> 00:48:57,719
Speaker 2: side and say I'll come back to you, because then

825
00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:01,000
Speaker 2: you've also got the pathway open to reconnect with them.

826
00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:03,799
Speaker 2: And it was nice to be able to say that

827
00:49:03,880 --> 00:49:07,319
Speaker 2: to somebody in that space and have them like he

828
00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:10,279
Speaker 2: responded with, Oh, okay, great, I'm glad that it was

829
00:49:10,360 --> 00:49:15,120
Speaker 2: viewed that way. But yeah, that sits up there for me,

830
00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:19,160
Speaker 2: that you know, knowing what you can do without having

831
00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:24,160
Speaker 2: the ego intertwined, and then also admitting what you can't do.

832
00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:27,680
Speaker 2: I think that both of those things are really powerful one.

833
00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:31,520
Speaker 1: Hundred percent, and also how exhausting is it? What an

834
00:49:31,520 --> 00:49:37,160
Speaker 1: emotional and psychological burden having to know everything like no,

835
00:49:37,560 --> 00:49:40,440
Speaker 1: I don't know. I used to, as you know, I

836
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:42,640
Speaker 1: did a lot of radio. I would get asked questions

837
00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:46,000
Speaker 1: all the time on radio, and often generally they are

838
00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:49,879
Speaker 1: about an injury. It was usually a medical question, and

839
00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:53,239
Speaker 1: to be honest, quite often I thought I knew the

840
00:49:53,320 --> 00:49:56,040
Speaker 1: answer or I would give them. I would answer in

841
00:49:56,080 --> 00:49:59,440
Speaker 1: a way where I wasn't giving them a prescription, but

842
00:49:59,520 --> 00:50:01,799
Speaker 1: I would have to say, I'm not a doctor, I'm

843
00:50:01,840 --> 00:50:04,839
Speaker 1: not a physiotherapist, I'm not a surgeon, so that the

844
00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:07,560
Speaker 1: actual answer is also, i've never met you, also, Brian,

845
00:50:07,719 --> 00:50:11,960
Speaker 1: I haven't seen your knee, right, but based on what

846
00:50:12,040 --> 00:50:15,600
Speaker 1: you're saying, it could be this. But the actual answer

847
00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:18,640
Speaker 1: is I don't know. Yep, the actual answer is I

848
00:50:18,680 --> 00:50:21,440
Speaker 1: don't know. And also even if I was a surgeon

849
00:50:21,560 --> 00:50:29,720
Speaker 1: or a doctor me assessing something via the radio without

850
00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:32,920
Speaker 1: seeing you, meeting you, looking at your knee, doing any

851
00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:36,880
Speaker 1: kind of testing, you know, And and yeah, but I

852
00:50:37,480 --> 00:50:40,759
Speaker 1: just think that you know, we're all we're all a

853
00:50:40,760 --> 00:50:43,520
Speaker 1: bit brilliant, all a bit broken. The more the more

854
00:50:43,560 --> 00:50:45,960
Speaker 1: authentic you can be. And I know that's an Ivus term,

855
00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:49,040
Speaker 1: but just fuck it. It's like it's too like trying to

856
00:50:49,080 --> 00:50:52,319
Speaker 1: be everything for it and trying to be like the

857
00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:58,560
Speaker 1: idea of like for me. Just like saying you don't know,

858
00:50:58,680 --> 00:51:01,120
Speaker 1: not only is it the right thing to do, it's

859
00:51:01,160 --> 00:51:03,920
Speaker 1: also well what else would you say? It's like, of

860
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:07,439
Speaker 1: course you don't know, Like of all the things there

861
00:51:07,440 --> 00:51:11,520
Speaker 1: are to know, I'm speaking for myself, of all the

862
00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:16,600
Speaker 1: things there are to know, I clearly know less than

863
00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:20,920
Speaker 1: point zero zero zero zero one percent of the things

864
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:24,240
Speaker 1: that exist in the world that I could know about

865
00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:26,759
Speaker 1: or know of or understand or have it. I don't know,

866
00:51:27,480 --> 00:51:29,719
Speaker 1: Like of all there is to know, I essentially know

867
00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:34,040
Speaker 1: nothing all I know about. And even then this is

868
00:51:34,680 --> 00:51:38,239
Speaker 1: self awareness. Even then the things that I know in

869
00:51:38,239 --> 00:51:41,799
Speaker 1: inverted commas, nudge, nudge, wink wink, I find out I

870
00:51:41,920 --> 00:51:44,719
Speaker 1: was wrong. So I didn't know it at all. I

871
00:51:44,920 --> 00:51:48,080
Speaker 1: just thought I knew it. I thought I knew the

872
00:51:48,120 --> 00:51:51,960
Speaker 1: food pyramid was the best way to eat. I thought

873
00:51:52,040 --> 00:51:55,320
Speaker 1: I knew how to get to heaven because I grew up. Firstly,

874
00:51:55,360 --> 00:51:57,319
Speaker 1: I thought there was a heaven. May or may not

875
00:51:57,360 --> 00:51:59,919
Speaker 1: be not sure. That's me being brave and honest. Part

876
00:51:59,920 --> 00:52:02,600
Speaker 1: of me still feels guilty. I thought I knew the

877
00:52:02,600 --> 00:52:06,480
Speaker 1: best religious protocol and operating system because apparently I grew

878
00:52:06,600 --> 00:52:10,080
Speaker 1: up in it. I didn't know anything. I just thought

879
00:52:10,120 --> 00:52:13,400
Speaker 1: I knew. And this is the distinction. This is the

880
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:17,799
Speaker 1: awareness of going, actually I don't know, because he's here.

881
00:52:17,920 --> 00:52:21,759
Speaker 1: This is a brain fuck that we think, oh, well,

882
00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:24,040
Speaker 1: here's what I know. No, no, no, no, no, here's what

883
00:52:24,120 --> 00:52:29,480
Speaker 1: I think I know. What you absolutely one hundred percent

884
00:52:29,680 --> 00:52:33,839
Speaker 1: no chance of being wrong. What you absolutely know is

885
00:52:33,880 --> 00:52:37,239
Speaker 1: probably not that much. What you think you know. What

886
00:52:37,280 --> 00:52:41,000
Speaker 1: you're sure you know is probably a lot. And it

887
00:52:41,080 --> 00:52:42,759
Speaker 1: might turn out that a lot of what you think

888
00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:46,400
Speaker 1: you know you're right about. But also because you're human

889
00:52:46,440 --> 00:52:49,040
Speaker 1: and because you're flawed, and because you get shit wrong,

890
00:52:50,280 --> 00:52:52,759
Speaker 1: it turns out there's probably going to be a fair

891
00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:56,360
Speaker 1: percentage of the stuff that you know that you actually

892
00:52:56,360 --> 00:52:58,520
Speaker 1: don't know absolutely.

893
00:52:58,719 --> 00:53:02,840
Speaker 2: So when did you get comfortable with being wrong? Because

894
00:53:02,840 --> 00:53:05,160
Speaker 2: that's something at the moment for me that like I've

895
00:53:05,200 --> 00:53:08,359
Speaker 2: spent and people closest to me, will you know, tell

896
00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:10,799
Speaker 2: you that I think I know everything, and you know,

897
00:53:10,840 --> 00:53:13,200
Speaker 2: I'll argue until I'm blowing the face, no it's this,

898
00:53:13,239 --> 00:53:15,080
Speaker 2: it's this, it's this, and then I go, ah, shit,

899
00:53:15,120 --> 00:53:18,880
Speaker 2: it's not that. And I would normally just kind of

900
00:53:19,600 --> 00:53:21,560
Speaker 2: let it for a long time, we'd just let that go.

901
00:53:21,760 --> 00:53:24,000
Speaker 2: You know, I fought so hard thinking that I was

902
00:53:24,080 --> 00:53:28,000
Speaker 2: right about something, and now I'm learning how to be

903
00:53:28,080 --> 00:53:32,480
Speaker 2: comfortable and saying, actually I need to apologize because I

904
00:53:32,600 --> 00:53:35,960
Speaker 2: was wrong about that. And I fought really hard to

905
00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:38,759
Speaker 2: get my point across on something that I thought I

906
00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:42,080
Speaker 2: was right about when actually I wasn't. So when when

907
00:53:42,120 --> 00:53:45,080
Speaker 2: did that happen for you? Like being comfortable with either

908
00:53:45,120 --> 00:53:46,920
Speaker 2: being wrong or just not knowing.

909
00:53:47,960 --> 00:53:50,200
Speaker 1: I used to get a lot of my sense of

910
00:53:50,239 --> 00:53:56,839
Speaker 1: self worth from what I thought I knew right, And

911
00:53:56,880 --> 00:54:02,200
Speaker 1: so when when being right in inverted commas, when being

912
00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:09,759
Speaker 1: right and knowing in inverted commas, is intertwined with my identity. Right, Oh,

913
00:54:09,960 --> 00:54:12,359
Speaker 1: I am a Catholic, I am a Buddhist, I am

914
00:54:12,400 --> 00:54:15,440
Speaker 1: a Mormon, I am a whatever. I am a vegan,

915
00:54:15,680 --> 00:54:19,520
Speaker 1: I am a democrat, I am a Republican. I am

916
00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:24,120
Speaker 1: a Carlton supporter. I am I am these Literally, we're

917
00:54:24,200 --> 00:54:29,240
Speaker 1: describing ourselves. We're going, I am a not I believe

918
00:54:29,239 --> 00:54:31,160
Speaker 1: in this or I think that we're going. I am

919
00:54:31,600 --> 00:54:36,080
Speaker 1: These are statements of identity. Now, when your identity is

920
00:54:36,200 --> 00:54:40,719
Speaker 1: intertwined with an idea or a belief or what you

921
00:54:40,840 --> 00:54:46,640
Speaker 1: think is absolute knowledge, of course you're closed minded. Now.

922
00:54:47,160 --> 00:54:48,600
Speaker 2: Oh that's a cult though, isn't it.

923
00:54:49,160 --> 00:54:53,279
Speaker 1: Well, if you question my knowledge, you question my identity,

924
00:54:53,400 --> 00:54:55,680
Speaker 1: and who the fuck are you to question my identity?

925
00:54:56,160 --> 00:54:58,960
Speaker 1: So the moment that you question the thing that I

926
00:54:59,200 --> 00:55:07,280
Speaker 1: unequivoc believed to be true, my knowledge, then I shut

927
00:55:07,360 --> 00:55:10,080
Speaker 1: down to you because you don't agree with me. You're

928
00:55:10,080 --> 00:55:13,600
Speaker 1: not in my echo chamber. You don't support my confirmation bias.

929
00:55:13,920 --> 00:55:17,280
Speaker 1: You're the enemy. Not only you, the enemy. I hate

930
00:55:17,320 --> 00:55:20,799
Speaker 1: you now And that sounds drastic, That fucking that is

931
00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:24,760
Speaker 1: how the world works to an extent. Look at the hatred.

932
00:55:25,120 --> 00:55:28,440
Speaker 1: What's the hatred about? It's about division, It's about you

933
00:55:28,480 --> 00:55:32,480
Speaker 1: think A. We think b where the one true whatever

934
00:55:32,760 --> 00:55:35,400
Speaker 1: you're not, and the other groups going no where the

935
00:55:35,440 --> 00:55:40,319
Speaker 1: one true ever, whatever you're not. So we think we

936
00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:43,719
Speaker 1: are the most evolved species. We are the most stupid,

937
00:55:43,800 --> 00:55:50,440
Speaker 1: fucking yet intelligent, shut down, emotionally fucking crippled species of

938
00:55:50,480 --> 00:55:54,279
Speaker 1: all time. Like especially now, it seems to be there's more.

939
00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:57,000
Speaker 1: I'm probably gonna get in trouble for this, but to me,

940
00:55:57,160 --> 00:56:00,839
Speaker 1: outside looking in and inside looking out, there's just more

941
00:56:00,880 --> 00:56:06,279
Speaker 1: stupidity and ignorance and intolerance because everyone thinks they're right.

942
00:56:06,400 --> 00:56:09,719
Speaker 1: I think if your starting point is I know that

943
00:56:09,800 --> 00:56:13,000
Speaker 1: I'm wrong a lot, and I'll probably get things wrong today.

944
00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:17,760
Speaker 1: And even though I strongly believe this, and the best

945
00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:20,120
Speaker 1: example I can give, which I've given many times, is,

946
00:56:20,719 --> 00:56:24,080
Speaker 1: you know my belief in God, which, depending on which

947
00:56:25,760 --> 00:56:29,239
Speaker 1: lends you look through, that could be considered completely irrational.

948
00:56:29,400 --> 00:56:32,560
Speaker 1: And if somebody said, Craig, that's completely irrational, I would

949
00:56:32,560 --> 00:56:36,320
Speaker 1: say to them, I respect that. If somebody said to me, Craig,

950
00:56:36,440 --> 00:56:40,760
Speaker 1: I'm with you, I'd say I respect that, right, because

951
00:56:40,800 --> 00:56:44,040
Speaker 1: this is just what I think. Like, if I could

952
00:56:44,160 --> 00:56:47,799
Speaker 1: prove that there is a God, I would now have unequivocal,

953
00:56:47,920 --> 00:56:52,440
Speaker 1: absolute data evidence knowledge. I don't, So what I have

954
00:56:52,600 --> 00:56:56,920
Speaker 1: is faith. By the way, don't look at me as

955
00:56:57,040 --> 00:56:59,560
Speaker 1: any kind of role model for any kind of faith,

956
00:57:00,120 --> 00:57:03,760
Speaker 1: because I'm the sweary motherfucker who has the U project,

957
00:57:04,360 --> 00:57:07,800
Speaker 1: So definitely don't pay attention to my model of religion

958
00:57:08,160 --> 00:57:11,680
Speaker 1: or spirituality. But look, I think.

959
00:57:13,080 --> 00:57:15,960
Speaker 2: I have far more faith in the sweary people than

960
00:57:16,120 --> 00:57:18,720
Speaker 2: the people that you know pretend to be otherwise, because

961
00:57:18,720 --> 00:57:22,560
Speaker 2: it's just been so dishonest to say, nah, no, never swear.

962
00:57:23,720 --> 00:57:26,240
Speaker 1: Oh well, I've been around a lot of religious people

963
00:57:26,280 --> 00:57:31,000
Speaker 1: who trust me, swearing would be a big, big, big,

964
00:57:31,040 --> 00:57:33,640
Speaker 1: big improvement on what they actually do when no one's

965
00:57:33,680 --> 00:57:39,800
Speaker 1: looking exactly But you know, don't. One of my pastors

966
00:57:39,880 --> 00:57:43,120
Speaker 1: used to say to me this, and Christians will get

967
00:57:43,160 --> 00:57:45,560
Speaker 1: this more, and I think my audience will get it too.

968
00:57:45,600 --> 00:57:49,720
Speaker 1: But he's like, even the devil knows the Bible, right,

969
00:57:51,520 --> 00:57:55,080
Speaker 1: the devil knows the scriptures too, right. It's like, yeah,

970
00:57:55,240 --> 00:57:57,600
Speaker 1: it's like you can read stuff, you can know stuff,

971
00:57:57,640 --> 00:58:00,680
Speaker 1: you can It's like you can know every you can

972
00:58:00,760 --> 00:58:03,120
Speaker 1: quote the Bible. You can, but it doesn't mean that

973
00:58:03,240 --> 00:58:07,800
Speaker 1: you're living any kind of particular life one way or

974
00:58:07,840 --> 00:58:10,400
Speaker 1: the other. It just means that you've memorized some shit, right.

975
00:58:10,440 --> 00:58:13,280
Speaker 1: It's just like, Oh, I own a tracksuit, that doesn't

976
00:58:13,320 --> 00:58:15,680
Speaker 1: make me an athlete. I have a gym membership that

977
00:58:15,720 --> 00:58:19,320
Speaker 1: doesn't make me strong. I have a degree that doesn't

978
00:58:19,360 --> 00:58:21,760
Speaker 1: make me smart. What I do with the degree makes

979
00:58:21,800 --> 00:58:25,040
Speaker 1: me smart. What I do in the gym makes me strong.

980
00:58:25,440 --> 00:58:27,520
Speaker 1: What I do with the knowledge that I get from

981
00:58:27,600 --> 00:58:29,880
Speaker 1: the Bible, or the inspiration from what I do with

982
00:58:30,000 --> 00:58:33,400
Speaker 1: that might make me a godly person or not, or

983
00:58:33,440 --> 00:58:35,560
Speaker 1: a good Christian or a good Buddhist or a good

984
00:58:36,280 --> 00:58:38,800
Speaker 1: fill in the blank, whatever religion that you are, whatever

985
00:58:38,840 --> 00:58:42,720
Speaker 1: your faith is. It's like, yeah, this is you know.

986
00:58:42,720 --> 00:58:46,960
Speaker 1: Knowledge on its own is inert and we need it.

987
00:58:47,120 --> 00:58:50,840
Speaker 1: We need it, but just unless it's operationalized. It's like

988
00:58:51,800 --> 00:58:53,400
Speaker 1: I don't want to I don't want to piss anyone

989
00:58:53,400 --> 00:58:56,280
Speaker 1: off as we finish the show, but I think if

990
00:58:56,320 --> 00:58:59,280
Speaker 1: our listeners will being big and brave and bold, and

991
00:58:59,560 --> 00:59:01,440
Speaker 1: because I have done this and you have done this,

992
00:59:01,840 --> 00:59:04,800
Speaker 1: how many of our listeners have heard information or inspiration

993
00:59:04,920 --> 00:59:08,240
Speaker 1: or ideas over the course of their listening experience on

994
00:59:08,280 --> 00:59:11,160
Speaker 1: the You Project and nodded their head and gone, fuck, yah,

995
00:59:11,200 --> 00:59:13,560
Speaker 1: that's me all got to do all and then not

996
00:59:13,680 --> 00:59:19,240
Speaker 1: done it everyone, every listener and the bloke who's talking

997
00:59:19,320 --> 00:59:23,000
Speaker 1: right now. So you know, it still comes down to

998
00:59:23,720 --> 00:59:27,560
Speaker 1: like knowing stuff is good, but what you do with

999
00:59:27,560 --> 00:59:29,320
Speaker 1: what you know is actually what counts.

1000
00:59:29,760 --> 00:59:31,880
Speaker 2: Goes back to what you said before, and it's what

1001
00:59:31,920 --> 00:59:33,320
Speaker 2: you do, and no one's looking.

1002
00:59:33,960 --> 00:59:39,960
Speaker 1: Correct correct, Well, you did way better this time. I

1003
00:59:40,080 --> 00:59:42,440
Speaker 1: probably shouldn't give you an elephants stamp on air, but

1004
00:59:42,520 --> 00:59:44,080
Speaker 1: fucking two elephant stamps for you.

1005
00:59:44,760 --> 00:59:46,920
Speaker 2: Fantastic, thank you.

1006
00:59:46,920 --> 00:59:49,320
Speaker 1: You should get an elephant stamp tattoo next to all

1007
00:59:49,320 --> 00:59:50,320
Speaker 1: your other tattoos.

1008
00:59:50,720 --> 00:59:53,960
Speaker 2: Oh look, maybe I don't know where i'd put it.

1009
00:59:53,960 --> 00:59:56,760
Speaker 1: It's getting a bit fure underneath. Put from harps.

1010
00:59:57,520 --> 00:59:59,320
Speaker 2: Well, can you draw me one? And then I think

1011
00:59:59,360 --> 01:00:00,560
Speaker 2: about getting it tattooed.

1012
01:00:01,120 --> 01:00:04,040
Speaker 1: I will draw you. I will draw it on the whiteboard.

1013
01:00:04,080 --> 01:00:07,680
Speaker 1: I'll take a photograph of it, and then if you

1014
01:00:07,800 --> 01:00:10,280
Speaker 1: get it put on you, I will pay for it.

1015
01:00:11,280 --> 01:00:15,520
Speaker 2: Alrighty, let's do it. I'll contact my artist and we'll

1016
01:00:15,560 --> 01:00:16,280
Speaker 2: see what happens.

1017
01:00:17,480 --> 01:00:22,160
Speaker 1: Challenge accepted, all right, all right, we'll say goodbye affair,

1018
01:00:22,200 --> 01:00:25,160
Speaker 1: but Kelly Smith, good work you. I'm going to give

1019
01:00:25,200 --> 01:00:26,440
Speaker 1: you I don't I don't want to give you two

1020
01:00:26,560 --> 01:00:29,680
Speaker 1: high score because I want you to stay hungry. I'm

1021
01:00:29,720 --> 01:00:32,080
Speaker 1: going to give you an eight out of ten so

1022
01:00:32,120 --> 01:00:33,520
Speaker 1: you've got room to move.

1023
01:00:33,840 --> 01:00:35,720
Speaker 2: Well done, fantastic, thank you,