WEBVTT - Why First Nations Stories Need to Be on TV and Film 0:00:00.680 --> 0:00:03.279 Welcome to First things first, I'm brooked. Let my pronouns 0:00:03.279 --> 0:00:03.880 are sen. 0:00:03.920 --> 0:00:05.760 I'm Maddie meals and my pronouns are he and him. 0:00:05.800 --> 0:00:07.720 And before we get started, we'd like to acknowledge the 0:00:07.720 --> 0:00:10.160 custodians of the land on which we record and for 0:00:10.280 --> 0:00:13.240 us today it's the Gaddigel people of the Urination. But 0:00:13.320 --> 0:00:16.600 we also have a very special guest on today's episode. 0:00:16.800 --> 0:00:18.520 It's one of those EPs where we get to interview 0:00:18.560 --> 0:00:22.000 someone deadly and today it is the Mista Travis Cardona. 0:00:23.280 --> 0:00:24.600 Yeah, good, thanks for having. 0:00:24.360 --> 0:00:25.920 Me, Thanks for coming in. 0:00:26.440 --> 0:00:28.080 Well, who's your mob are you from? Let's kick it 0:00:28.120 --> 0:00:28.440 off with that. 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:37.000 Yeah, so that used to be mild. Yeah, so Travis Cardooner, 0:00:37.120 --> 0:00:41.040 My mob's Mullock from the Northern Territory, so born and 0:00:41.080 --> 0:00:45.920 bred on Larychie Country. And yeah, it's really nice to 0:00:45.960 --> 0:00:48.720 be here today in the studios at Nova. Just seen 0:00:48.800 --> 0:00:50.120 Tribal Warrior over there on. 0:00:50.120 --> 0:00:52.839 The side, so it's a pretty good view from here. Hey. Well, 0:00:52.840 --> 0:00:55.400 the people that probably can't see it from the listening 0:00:55.400 --> 0:00:59.160 in their airports, but we sit right beside Pimont Bay 0:00:59.280 --> 0:01:02.840 and we look out of the water. So yeah, Trouble Warriors, 0:01:03.240 --> 0:01:03.880 would you call it. 0:01:03.840 --> 0:01:06.360 A cruise ship. It's a tour ship. Yeah, the two 0:01:06.440 --> 0:01:08.600 was around the harbor, but no, it's beautiful spot. So 0:01:08.600 --> 0:01:10.160 thanks for having me, guys, Yes. 0:01:10.120 --> 0:01:11.480 So welcome of course. 0:01:12.280 --> 0:01:14.120 Well I just want to put this out there. 0:01:14.280 --> 0:01:16.120 You know, I'm so glad that we can have you 0:01:16.160 --> 0:01:18.440 on this pod because you actually gave me my first 0:01:18.560 --> 0:01:21.759 ever presenting job. So now it feels like a full 0:01:21.760 --> 0:01:24.040 circle moment where I'm like hosting you, you know what 0:01:24.040 --> 0:01:26.200 I mean, Like this is a bit surreal for me. 0:01:26.280 --> 0:01:28.280 But well, what was that job? Can I ask? 0:01:28.520 --> 0:01:28.959 It was? 0:01:29.720 --> 0:01:30.320 At first? 0:01:30.400 --> 0:01:34.240 It was just like an ad hoc Facebook live gig. 0:01:34.280 --> 0:01:35.920 Really, yeah, do you want me to tell the stories? 0:01:37.480 --> 0:01:39.880 I love it. I think it was like twenty seventeen. 0:01:40.800 --> 0:01:43.319 It was the first time at an ITV we've done 0:01:43.360 --> 0:01:48.520 a Facebook live live broadcast from Mardi Gras. And it 0:01:48.560 --> 0:01:53.200 was the empty First Nation's float, which was made up 0:01:53.240 --> 0:01:56.240 of all these mobs from Darwin and everyone from like 0:01:56.280 --> 0:02:00.680 Crystal Love, Miscellaneous, cousin Josie Baker. It was just like 0:02:00.760 --> 0:02:03.560 all the black excellence from the LGBTI community that came 0:02:03.600 --> 0:02:08.120 down for it and Miscellaneous, who's also my cousin, Ben 0:02:08.160 --> 0:02:11.840 Gratz shout Out was supposed to be hosting, but because 0:02:11.840 --> 0:02:13.600 it's so loud and the first time we've ever done 0:02:13.600 --> 0:02:16.639 at Facebook live broadcast with a backpack, so we wore 0:02:16.639 --> 0:02:19.880 a satellite backpack on our back and remember was following me, 0:02:20.880 --> 0:02:22.760 and we had and I had the microphone and I 0:02:22.800 --> 0:02:25.520 was passing to Miscellaneius. Anyway, she lost her voice, so 0:02:25.560 --> 0:02:28.600 I ended up having to take over and I was exhausted. 0:02:28.720 --> 0:02:31.200 And I saw this person with lots of energy actually 0:02:31.280 --> 0:02:34.840 dancing with my cousin, Warren McGrath, wearing very little clothing 0:02:35.360 --> 0:02:38.080 and sounds like and I was like, hey, do you 0:02:38.080 --> 0:02:40.440 want to hold the hold the micro a bit? And 0:02:40.840 --> 0:02:43.400 so I remember Maddy grabbed the microphone and skipped along 0:02:43.440 --> 0:02:45.600 Mardi Gras and was talking to people asking him how 0:02:45.680 --> 0:02:48.440 that Marti gra is nappy Marti Gras. And I thought 0:02:48.480 --> 0:02:50.160 to myself, I'm going to get this guy next year. 0:02:50.320 --> 0:02:54.320 So I was like twenty eighteen, Maddi Webb and Johnny 0:02:54.360 --> 0:02:58.960 Jeffrey shout Out came on and did that Mardi Gras 0:02:58.960 --> 0:03:02.360 tour and then Mardi Gras broadcast to Facebook and we 0:03:02.400 --> 0:03:05.040 were the first to do it as an ITV like 0:03:05.400 --> 0:03:07.760 SBS had the major broadcast deal. But we were the 0:03:07.800 --> 0:03:09.760 first just to go live and just be with the 0:03:09.919 --> 0:03:12.640 mob and be with all the community on ground, and 0:03:12.919 --> 0:03:14.720 it was just it was a fun time, right. 0:03:14.639 --> 0:03:16.560 It was so fun. I never knew what you were 0:03:16.560 --> 0:03:18.480 going to expect. Yeah, you know, you never knew what 0:03:18.520 --> 0:03:20.639 to expect. Like you were going up to people and 0:03:20.880 --> 0:03:23.519 some of them, you know, were answering, you know, is 0:03:23.560 --> 0:03:26.640 live so like it live TV, Like it's a risky game, 0:03:26.720 --> 0:03:28.080 like you don't know what you're going to get. And 0:03:28.320 --> 0:03:29.920 some of it, like I remember, some people were just 0:03:30.000 --> 0:03:32.600 so lit, you know, like it's Mardi gru People were 0:03:32.800 --> 0:03:36.920 just off their face. But it was that energy of celebration, euphoria. 0:03:37.520 --> 0:03:37.720 It was. 0:03:37.840 --> 0:03:39.520 It was a good time. But the next year was 0:03:39.560 --> 0:03:42.440 more planned and I loved it. Yeah yeah, but so 0:03:42.560 --> 0:03:43.440 thanks thanks Trav. 0:03:43.520 --> 0:03:45.400 But knockdown memory lane. 0:03:45.440 --> 0:03:48.880 Yeah, I'm not talking about me. You know, you've had 0:03:48.880 --> 0:03:51.120 a pretty stellar career. You know, you started off at 0:03:51.160 --> 0:03:54.160 acting school and now you're back there. A bit of 0:03:54.160 --> 0:03:55.800 a full circle moment for you, Right, What are you 0:03:55.840 --> 0:03:56.560 doing over at NIDER. 0:03:56.720 --> 0:03:59.120 Yeah, so I'm the director of First Nations and Outreach. 0:03:59.720 --> 0:04:01.480 It was only that was never there when I studied 0:04:01.520 --> 0:04:03.840 at nighter back in two thousand and six to two 0:04:03.880 --> 0:04:06.680 thousand and eight. So I did the three year BFA 0:04:06.760 --> 0:04:09.560 acting course and the unit that we have now is 0:04:09.560 --> 0:04:14.000 the First Nations unit. We have Uncle Matthew Doyle who's 0:04:14.000 --> 0:04:18.560 an unclean resident, Annie Road Roberts who's an advisor. We 0:04:18.680 --> 0:04:23.080 have Andre Daniel who's a human woman who's our project coordinator, 0:04:23.320 --> 0:04:25.920 and then me who looks after everything the team does 0:04:26.279 --> 0:04:29.880 external stakeholders and internal with all the students and First 0:04:29.960 --> 0:04:33.400 Nations clients. And yeah, like it's a it's quite an 0:04:33.440 --> 0:04:35.719 exciting thing because when I studied at night, we didn't 0:04:35.720 --> 0:04:38.680 really have any First Nation support. Yeah, and it was 0:04:38.720 --> 0:04:41.159 just us that the First Nation students that were there. 0:04:41.200 --> 0:04:45.560 So Miranda Tapsell, Sharry Seven's main white guy, Simon, all 0:04:45.640 --> 0:04:47.280 of us were in the same cohort together. 0:04:47.600 --> 0:04:48.520 What a cohort? 0:04:48.640 --> 0:04:51.920 Yeah, So yeah, and their careers went great and I 0:04:52.000 --> 0:04:57.159 ended up working at NV. Well there's a story to why. 0:04:57.320 --> 0:05:01.280 But I think you know, we've done a lot in 0:05:01.320 --> 0:05:03.839 a small space of time. We've had a First Nation's 0:05:03.880 --> 0:05:07.840 approach to the curriculum where we've brought in what it 0:05:07.920 --> 0:05:11.000 is is getting students to understand what connection to country 0:05:11.080 --> 0:05:13.560 is and that it's not just a First nation's thing. 0:05:13.680 --> 0:05:16.320 Like all people all around the world do have a 0:05:16.360 --> 0:05:19.520 connection to wherever they are. They might have been born there. 0:05:19.800 --> 0:05:22.599 You know that warm hug that you get when or 0:05:22.600 --> 0:05:24.880 that smell that sort of draws you into that place 0:05:24.920 --> 0:05:27.160 you grew up in. That is a connection to country. 0:05:27.160 --> 0:05:29.960 Everyone has that, And so we're trying to get our students, 0:05:29.960 --> 0:05:33.600 who are mainly artists, understanding that, like it's a real thing, 0:05:33.640 --> 0:05:37.440 and hopefully that gives them, you know, respect and empathy 0:05:37.480 --> 0:05:40.400 and understanding not just for First Nations people, but the 0:05:40.520 --> 0:05:45.200 environment as well, and understanding that within the environment around us, 0:05:45.200 --> 0:05:48.040 there's stories everywhere. So one thing I like to always 0:05:48.040 --> 0:05:52.000 talk about is Centennial Park. There's a series of ponds 0:05:52.080 --> 0:05:54.240 or through there, and there's these eels that live in 0:05:54.279 --> 0:05:56.200 these ponds and they're really sacred to the dreg and 0:05:56.279 --> 0:06:00.719 Duryl people and Bigical and Gradigald people. Those eels have 0:06:00.920 --> 0:06:05.080 survived living in this giant city, you know, this place 0:06:05.120 --> 0:06:07.599 that was built on top of their wetlands. And the 0:06:07.640 --> 0:06:09.960 wetlands used to run from Centennial Park all the way 0:06:09.960 --> 0:06:12.040 out to Botany Bay, and that's why they built a 0:06:12.040 --> 0:06:15.000 whole series of golf courses because back in the day 0:06:15.000 --> 0:06:16.560 people like, oh, it's just swamp lands, so let's just 0:06:16.560 --> 0:06:20.240 turn into golf courses. But the water still moves through there, 0:06:20.520 --> 0:06:24.560 and these eels still migrate through those wetlands, make their 0:06:24.600 --> 0:06:27.320 way through drains behind Nier and all the way out 0:06:27.400 --> 0:06:31.159 to Botany Bay, where they swim to New Caledonia. Wow, 0:06:31.880 --> 0:06:36.200 which is like and cloms a way offshore, right. They 0:06:36.240 --> 0:06:38.960 swim there and breed, and then their little babies, little 0:06:39.279 --> 0:06:42.080 translucent little slug things, swim all the way back and 0:06:42.120 --> 0:06:43.920 get to Centennial Park and then they grow again. 0:06:43.920 --> 0:06:45.839 For like wow. 0:06:46.480 --> 0:06:50.000 Like, so we teach our students like that's the story 0:06:50.040 --> 0:06:52.719 of survival and resilience but also amazement, and it's all 0:06:52.960 --> 0:06:56.080 there's there's things everywhere. Yeah, you know, Disney will make 0:06:56.120 --> 0:07:00.600 a eel cartoon about it, obviously finding nemo El. 0:07:00.800 --> 0:07:05.800 I mean, but yeah, I know of those stories, and 0:07:05.880 --> 0:07:09.240 I like, I worked with Maddie Uncle Maddie Doyle on 0:07:09.600 --> 0:07:12.800 a couple of those stories when I was doing the 0:07:12.840 --> 0:07:15.200 tour of the Harbor Bridge for the Borrower Climbing. So 0:07:15.480 --> 0:07:18.040 I remember hearing that, hearing those things and just being 0:07:18.080 --> 0:07:21.760 like wow, like thousands and thousands of thousands of like 0:07:22.000 --> 0:07:26.640 years of storytelling, you know, like and culture practice that 0:07:26.880 --> 0:07:28.560 I feel like, if you even look at the city 0:07:28.560 --> 0:07:31.040 as a whole, it's like a blueprint built on what's 0:07:31.080 --> 0:07:33.440 already been here, you know what I mean. So I 0:07:33.440 --> 0:07:36.200 love that, like not even just First Nations kids, but 0:07:36.440 --> 0:07:38.400 young people who were going into night or they don't 0:07:38.440 --> 0:07:38.960 have to be young. 0:07:38.840 --> 0:07:39.560 These days, do they. 0:07:39.600 --> 0:07:40.239 They can be anyone. 0:07:40.360 --> 0:07:42.800 No, yeah, I'm going through night. 0:07:42.880 --> 0:07:46.160 I get that next level of experience because I went 0:07:46.200 --> 0:07:48.240 to Wapera and I did the original theater of course, 0:07:48.320 --> 0:07:51.280 and I remember that there was a disconnection between us 0:07:51.280 --> 0:07:53.800 and the rest of the school for sure, the campus, 0:07:53.840 --> 0:07:56.280 but it feels like it's all sort. 0:07:56.120 --> 0:07:58.680 Of yeah, and we do it too to remove that 0:07:58.760 --> 0:08:02.960 cultural load when we were at night back then, you know, 0:08:03.080 --> 0:08:06.040 back in the day, if there was anything First Nations 0:08:06.160 --> 0:08:08.000 topic that came up, all eyes came on. 0:08:08.520 --> 0:08:10.360 Oh yeah, that reminds me of school. 0:08:10.600 --> 0:08:12.640 Yeah. And I was like a nineteen year old kid 0:08:12.640 --> 0:08:14.320 from Darwin that just was like I just wanted to 0:08:14.400 --> 0:08:15.320 be a Stormtroopers. 0:08:16.240 --> 0:08:22.040 Yeah, I don't know anything really, you know, like I 0:08:22.080 --> 0:08:23.880 knew where I grew up and my mob is and 0:08:24.200 --> 0:08:26.000 you know, I love going fishing and hunting and all 0:08:26.040 --> 0:08:28.400 that stuff, but like I don't know, politics and stuff. 0:08:28.640 --> 0:08:32.800 Still so much pressure, hey, like responsibility put on you 0:08:32.920 --> 0:08:37.080 at at certain ages. I know throughout my life, like yeah, 0:08:37.200 --> 0:08:39.120 they'd be like, oh yeah, you know this one brooked it. 0:08:39.240 --> 0:08:40.920 I'm like yeah. 0:08:40.960 --> 0:08:43.960 And I moved from Canalvin to Perth, so I was 0:08:44.000 --> 0:08:48.080 still finding myself. I went from being in a community 0:08:48.360 --> 0:08:51.760 like having my family surrounded by me to be the. 0:08:51.720 --> 0:08:53.280 Only black person in the white family. 0:08:53.440 --> 0:08:56.440 So I was like, I don't know these stories and 0:08:56.480 --> 0:08:59.000 it was an until later, I guess, going to university 0:08:59.080 --> 0:09:01.480 and then you knowing that I was educated. 0:09:01.520 --> 0:09:04.600 But those stories are so sacred, Like I feel. 0:09:04.320 --> 0:09:09.360 Like we don't acknowledge how the transference like down from 0:09:09.679 --> 0:09:13.000 you know, our generation, like how sacred they are. And 0:09:13.040 --> 0:09:16.240 I love that. I guess now working in like film 0:09:16.280 --> 0:09:18.280 and TV, that we're seeing a lot more of it 0:09:18.320 --> 0:09:20.920 so we can share it and we're not having that 0:09:21.000 --> 0:09:24.120 responsibility to tell it and do justice. It's like, oh, 0:09:24.160 --> 0:09:26.600 well you can actually watch some things now, like yeah, 0:09:26.679 --> 0:09:28.920 I think that's the beauty of storytelling. But then again 0:09:29.000 --> 0:09:31.720 they still are sacred and we have to like protect them. 0:09:31.760 --> 0:09:32.360 I think as. 0:09:32.280 --> 0:09:36.040 Well, it's really good that ABC SBS organizations like that, 0:09:36.040 --> 0:09:40.960 they have really strong cultural advisory strategies within their commissioning process. Yeah, 0:09:41.000 --> 0:09:43.560 so a lot of the stuff being made today, you know, 0:09:43.640 --> 0:09:46.680 you have to have a first nation's cultural advisor that's 0:09:46.720 --> 0:09:49.520 connected to that area or was working with that community 0:09:49.520 --> 0:09:52.240 and traditional miners to tell stories. And so that's what 0:09:52.280 --> 0:09:55.320 we try to you know, do within Nighter as well. 0:09:55.440 --> 0:09:58.400 So you know, we know that for me, even uncle out, 0:09:58.720 --> 0:10:01.640 we don't have mission to tell other people's stories, but 0:10:01.679 --> 0:10:06.079 if we can just provide a safe space for Indigenous 0:10:06.080 --> 0:10:08.600 and non Indigenous students to explore, but they don't have 0:10:08.640 --> 0:10:11.559 to have the answers. It's just how do you explore 0:10:12.040 --> 0:10:15.640 what stories are out there in a respectful way and 0:10:16.120 --> 0:10:19.000 that you're not putting your artistic interpretation and on to 0:10:19.120 --> 0:10:21.400 change anything, and you're just doing it in a way 0:10:21.480 --> 0:10:23.640 just to learn so you can have respect. The most 0:10:23.640 --> 0:10:28.240 important thing about most stories is just respecting the country 0:10:28.280 --> 0:10:30.440 and the environment and the language. And like you were 0:10:30.480 --> 0:10:34.000 saying before that the thousands of years of it going on, 0:10:34.040 --> 0:10:36.280 you know it was ever written down. 0:10:37.360 --> 0:10:39.840 That's what we are and we're so grateful that we've 0:10:39.840 --> 0:10:42.080 got the podcast to like yearn about these things, but 0:10:42.240 --> 0:10:46.400 like the depth and storytelling and also like different perspectives 0:10:46.480 --> 0:10:49.760 and everyone has like every time sometimes we interview people 0:10:49.800 --> 0:10:50.360 and it's. 0:10:50.200 --> 0:10:54.680 Like you learn so much in that hour that like, yeah, I. 0:10:54.679 --> 0:10:59.160 Don't take for granted. I think it's so nice. You've 0:10:59.160 --> 0:11:02.560 been in acting for quite a while. Was it inspired 0:11:02.600 --> 0:11:04.920 by stories that you went into acting or was it 0:11:04.960 --> 0:11:07.320 something that you like you said you wanted to be 0:11:07.360 --> 0:11:08.120 a storm trooper. 0:11:08.480 --> 0:11:11.360 Yeah, I think like it all started, you know. So 0:11:11.400 --> 0:11:14.960 when I was in primary school, I was just in 0:11:15.040 --> 0:11:18.679 trouble all the time, and my grades went very good, 0:11:20.000 --> 0:11:23.679 and they had a drama activity one day. There was 0:11:23.720 --> 0:11:28.160 a drama activity about Jesus and they're all asleep on 0:11:28.200 --> 0:11:30.199 the boat, and I just remembered that my character was 0:11:30.240 --> 0:11:31.959 supposed to be asleep on the boat. 0:11:32.280 --> 0:11:37.280 On this is giving me PTSD from another thing to 0:11:37.280 --> 0:11:39.200 bring up the Bible, but I just remember that, and 0:11:39.240 --> 0:11:41.800 my teacher said to me, hey, you did really good there. 0:11:42.200 --> 0:11:44.960 You remember what your part was supposed to do, and 0:11:45.040 --> 0:11:49.360 so I went, oh, okay, So someone compliments that he 0:11:49.480 --> 0:11:52.480 did well. And then this performance troupe came to our 0:11:52.480 --> 0:11:56.040 school a couple maybe a year later, and these these 0:11:56.440 --> 0:11:58.360 guys and women. The three of them. They came up 0:11:58.400 --> 0:12:01.199 on stage and they had all these wigs and costumes 0:12:01.240 --> 0:12:04.360 and they were just being silly and having fun. They 0:12:04.440 --> 0:12:06.400 were like being in drag and everything. 0:12:06.440 --> 0:12:12.800 And then I was like we all had to do that, 0:12:13.080 --> 0:12:14.800 you know, like I normally get in trouble for being 0:12:14.800 --> 0:12:18.360 a cloudy. And then I thought, oh, they said, well 0:12:18.360 --> 0:12:20.560 you should, maybe you want to be an actor one day. 0:12:21.280 --> 0:12:25.160 So I just really enjoyed doing, you know, present like, 0:12:25.240 --> 0:12:28.760 you know, being fun and showing off to people. And 0:12:28.800 --> 0:12:33.520 then I was about fourteen and there was a play 0:12:33.679 --> 0:12:36.720 Richard Franklin wrote that was coming to Darwin and they're 0:12:36.720 --> 0:12:40.200 looking for understudies and it had Aaron Pederson and Durman 0:12:40.240 --> 0:12:43.440 harden Reich in it. Durmod was They were both in 0:12:43.520 --> 0:12:46.839 water acts at the time, and so I sort of 0:12:46.920 --> 0:12:49.600 knew who their names was. And this audition opportunity came 0:12:49.640 --> 0:12:51.640 out and Mom said, you want to go for it. 0:12:51.720 --> 0:12:54.800 So this was like two thy like twenty four years ago, right, 0:12:55.240 --> 0:12:58.319 And I auditioned and I got the role as an understudy. 0:12:58.559 --> 0:13:03.560 And these were hard plays. One was about deaths and custody, 0:13:03.600 --> 0:13:06.440 Harry's War and No Where to Forget yeah, So one 0:13:06.480 --> 0:13:09.080 was about death and custody, which was no way to forget, 0:13:09.320 --> 0:13:12.000 and the other one was about return servicemen from World 0:13:12.040 --> 0:13:15.160 War Two that were first nations that weren't recognized as citizens. 0:13:16.120 --> 0:13:19.200 And so the first ever play I did outside of 0:13:19.679 --> 0:13:22.319 you know, school or whatever was this real hard hitting player. 0:13:22.320 --> 0:13:25.840 I remember being emotionally caught up not understanding about you know, 0:13:26.120 --> 0:13:30.760 suicide in you know, performing these characters and how soldiers 0:13:30.800 --> 0:13:32.680 weren't even allowed to go into the RSL and have 0:13:32.720 --> 0:13:35.080 a beer and they went to fight to get their 0:13:35.120 --> 0:13:38.640 citizenship but they weren't even recognized. So I really got 0:13:38.640 --> 0:13:42.120 thrown in this deep end. But that's where my passion 0:13:42.200 --> 0:13:44.680 came in. I just working with Aaron at such a 0:13:44.720 --> 0:13:46.200 young age. I was like, man, I just want to 0:13:46.200 --> 0:13:49.440 be like him, and he just took me under his 0:13:49.520 --> 0:13:51.320 wing like straight away. You know, it was like a 0:13:51.320 --> 0:13:54.120 big brother, and you know, it's funny, like it was 0:13:54.120 --> 0:13:57.480 a small period, this age of fourteen, but like that 0:13:58.120 --> 0:14:00.360 just changed my whole trajectory of what I wanted to 0:14:00.400 --> 0:14:04.400 do with my life. So I just kept doing youth arts, 0:14:04.440 --> 0:14:07.360 youth theater. That's when I met Miranda. Me and her 0:14:07.360 --> 0:14:12.320 were at Kurrat our youth arts performing in plays and yeah, 0:14:12.360 --> 0:14:14.920 and then we auditioned for NIDA when we were like 0:14:15.160 --> 0:14:19.280 eighteen nineteen. We worked on our like audition pieces together 0:14:19.560 --> 0:14:24.560 Cargret and youth Arts, and here we got in. It 0:14:24.640 --> 0:14:25.080 was crazy. 0:14:25.120 --> 0:14:27.040 So that must have been a big moment though, because 0:14:27.040 --> 0:14:30.120 it's two kids from the same place. That doesn't happen often. 0:14:30.200 --> 0:14:34.280 Like you know, it's such a tight exclusive group that 0:14:34.320 --> 0:14:36.320 gets into Night really, you know what I mean, it's 0:14:36.320 --> 0:14:37.960 like the most talented in the country. 0:14:38.120 --> 0:14:39.880 Yeah, for two of you to get in. 0:14:39.960 --> 0:14:41.680 That must have been amazing for you both. 0:14:42.000 --> 0:14:44.080 Yeah, because you're moving from Darwin. 0:14:43.840 --> 0:14:44.360 You know what I mean. 0:14:44.920 --> 0:14:47.520 Yeah, I didn't think I was going to get in. 0:14:48.800 --> 0:14:53.040 And I remember we had to sing, so they asked 0:14:53.080 --> 0:14:55.720 us to do our audition and you had to do 0:14:55.760 --> 0:14:58.320 two auditions, like a Shakespeare and a contemporary and then 0:14:58.360 --> 0:15:03.480 you had to sing something some some silly voice warm 0:15:03.560 --> 0:15:06.720 up thing that I learned while I was doing Yeah 0:15:07.080 --> 0:15:09.920 something really was something in Italian. Yeah that I had 0:15:09.920 --> 0:15:12.400 no idea what it meant, but it's all I could 0:15:12.400 --> 0:15:12.880 come up from. 0:15:13.400 --> 0:15:17.440 Now I kind of like can relate to that only 0:15:17.480 --> 0:15:19.960 in the last year, but that would make no sense 0:15:20.000 --> 0:15:20.200 to me. 0:15:20.960 --> 0:15:23.520 And I'm pretty sure Miranda did like Billy Jean by 0:15:23.560 --> 0:15:29.920 Michael Jackson coming with the one, and but yeah, look 0:15:29.920 --> 0:15:32.640 we got in and it was an amazing experience. Like 0:15:33.240 --> 0:15:36.200 the teaching stuff for NIDER that taught us back then 0:15:36.280 --> 0:15:39.880 are no longer working there anymore, some have passed away. 0:15:39.960 --> 0:15:42.600 But it was what they said was like, you know, 0:15:42.920 --> 0:15:46.640 that was you know the era of NIDER where you know, 0:15:46.680 --> 0:15:49.400 it's changed a lot since then. Yeah, it was very hard. 0:15:50.360 --> 0:15:52.840 It was just very straight up, straightforward. There was no 0:15:53.320 --> 0:15:58.280 mucking around. Yeah, and like today is very professional and 0:15:58.360 --> 0:16:00.400 all of that, but it's just a different time, totaling 0:16:00.480 --> 0:16:05.200 almost eighteen years ago. Yeah, but yeah, look it's that's 0:16:05.240 --> 0:16:07.040 what happened. And then I worked as an actor for 0:16:07.120 --> 0:16:10.280 a while. I did a show with Nikir Lewis This Heaven? 0:16:10.320 --> 0:16:13.040 I did a show with Griffin Theater Company. I've just 0:16:13.040 --> 0:16:15.160 got a role on All Saints. No one probably knows 0:16:15.160 --> 0:16:19.280 what All Saints is anymore. You yeah, yeah, younger generation, 0:16:19.560 --> 0:16:26.720 the youngs a TikTok. Yeah yeah yeah. And then like yeah, 0:16:26.800 --> 0:16:31.520 I was doing a development show with Wesley Innock and 0:16:31.760 --> 0:16:33.640 it was called Black Diggers, and I was like, yes, 0:16:33.720 --> 0:16:36.280 this is going to be awesome. It's about you know, 0:16:36.960 --> 0:16:39.280 First Nations men that went to fight in war, and 0:16:39.320 --> 0:16:42.480 they took all these stories together and it had a 0:16:42.520 --> 0:16:47.080 great cast like Luke Carroll, Main Whitet, David page Ress 0:16:47.120 --> 0:16:49.640 in Peace, you know, And I was about to go 0:16:49.680 --> 0:16:52.480 on this tour and then this other thing came up 0:16:52.480 --> 0:16:55.560 at SBS where they had a one year contract to 0:16:56.800 --> 0:17:01.040 work at SBS and it came with training in screen 0:17:01.120 --> 0:17:04.239 and media and I was like, and you know, it 0:17:04.280 --> 0:17:06.520 was a struggle back then, there wasn't as much First 0:17:06.600 --> 0:17:10.400 Nation's content being made, Like you know, we were all 0:17:10.440 --> 0:17:12.159 of us mob that were in the industry were all 0:17:12.160 --> 0:17:13.800 turning up to the same auditions or going for the 0:17:13.880 --> 0:17:17.840 same roles, and you know, being light skinned as well, 0:17:17.880 --> 0:17:19.879 Like it was really hard to cast me, Like they 0:17:19.880 --> 0:17:22.960 didn't know how to cast us back it was. So 0:17:23.440 --> 0:17:26.760 I took this yeah, one year contract with SBS and 0:17:26.800 --> 0:17:30.600 then yeah, I did a Certificate four and screen of 0:17:30.680 --> 0:17:34.360 media at Metro Screen and ended up becoming a producer 0:17:34.440 --> 0:17:36.920 in the end. I think some of the highlights though 0:17:36.920 --> 0:17:39.600 working at it TV, like the First Nation Fashion Awards. 0:17:39.960 --> 0:17:43.560 It was the height of COVID. They had their inaugural 0:17:43.600 --> 0:17:47.040 First Nation Fashion Awards happening and they had no way 0:17:47.080 --> 0:17:49.320 of putting it on, and so we came up with 0:17:49.400 --> 0:17:52.720 a way where Rachel Hocking was hosting it at the time. 0:17:52.800 --> 0:17:54.920 We did it all from in studio. We set out 0:17:54.960 --> 0:17:58.120 stringers to go shoot a whole bunch of nominees who 0:17:58.119 --> 0:18:02.360 are actually the winners, to tell their story and yeah, 0:18:02.400 --> 0:18:04.800 we put that, you know, we created that. I'm pretty 0:18:04.800 --> 0:18:06.800 sure it was twenty twenty or twenty twenty one. Yeah, 0:18:06.840 --> 0:18:08.919 but you know, that was one of the highlights for 0:18:08.960 --> 0:18:11.600 me of n ITV because it was telling all these 0:18:11.640 --> 0:18:13.840 mob stories and all the great work they're doing, plus 0:18:13.840 --> 0:18:17.080 helping the first nation's fashion industry which is now booming yep, 0:18:17.520 --> 0:18:21.080 and it's so important that, you know, we celebrate art 0:18:21.840 --> 0:18:24.199 and culture, especially through fashion. So it was like a 0:18:24.240 --> 0:18:26.480 massive one of the most exciting things I did. But 0:18:27.320 --> 0:18:29.919 I worked on all of the GAMA Festivals, the National 0:18:30.520 --> 0:18:31.440 Music Awards. 0:18:31.560 --> 0:18:35.120 The funny to go back to typecasting because I feel 0:18:35.160 --> 0:18:38.800 like that's really interesting because with your experience and I 0:18:38.840 --> 0:18:42.480 guess you know, seeing and just hearing you say, like 0:18:42.560 --> 0:18:45.000 you guys were all auditioning for the same roles and 0:18:45.440 --> 0:18:49.640 the same films, and you know how much has it 0:18:49.760 --> 0:18:52.359 evolved in a good way in a bad way? 0:18:52.520 --> 0:18:55.240 Both talk to me about typecasting, like both of you. 0:18:55.359 --> 0:18:57.560 I mean, I'm not really I'm an actor, like just 0:18:57.680 --> 0:18:59.720 new but I can't really talk it from. 0:18:59.840 --> 0:19:03.840 Like a Black Fellows being pigeonholed. Yeah, I suppose you 0:19:03.840 --> 0:19:06.600 can talk to like how much it's evolved over the Yeah, 0:19:06.800 --> 0:19:08.080 I think it has changed a lot. 0:19:08.040 --> 0:19:11.679 And it's because more First Nations people are the writers, directors, 0:19:11.720 --> 0:19:12.720 producers of content. 0:19:12.920 --> 0:19:13.120 Yeah. 0:19:13.240 --> 0:19:19.200 Yeah, And you know, in the last since like twenty thirteen, 0:19:19.560 --> 0:19:24.440 you know, there's been so much work that's been created. 0:19:24.840 --> 0:19:30.840 So people who are casting are getting the brief from 0:19:30.840 --> 0:19:33.719 a First Nation's director and producer and writer, you know, 0:19:33.840 --> 0:19:37.720 and so it's not a non indigenous casting agent working 0:19:37.720 --> 0:19:39.680 with a non indigenous producer like we need this guy 0:19:39.720 --> 0:19:43.520 who fits this Aboriginal wale and what their idea of 0:19:43.520 --> 0:19:46.000 what an Aboriginal person is. You know, we all who 0:19:46.000 --> 0:19:49.800 are a very diverse group of people across a large continent. 0:19:50.400 --> 0:19:52.880 How many times would you have heard can you sound 0:19:52.960 --> 0:19:54.800 more community like. 0:19:55.320 --> 0:19:55.960 An actual thing? 0:19:56.240 --> 0:19:56.400 Well? 0:19:56.560 --> 0:19:58.960