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Speaker 1: If aliens were to come down from space, they wouldn't

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Speaker 1: think of us as humans necessarily. They would talk about

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Speaker 1: us as being a hybrid species, because we have as

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Speaker 1: many microbial cells as we have human cells.

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Speaker 2: Doctor Emily Liming, Welcome to the podcast.

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Speaker 3: Thanks for having me. Great to be here.

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Speaker 2: And so you you're obviously in the UK, but you spent

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Speaker 2: a bit of time over here in Australia. In Melbourne

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Speaker 2: actually where I am. Tell our listeners about that I did.

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Speaker 1: I did my Masters in dietetics at Monash in Melbourne

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Speaker 1: and I was there for two years and absolutely loved

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Speaker 1: it and was very very sad to leave. But I

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Speaker 1: got lured away by the promise of the PhD at

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Speaker 1: King's College, London in the gut microbme and diet. So

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Speaker 1: that's what took me back to the cold, gray weather.

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Speaker 2: Of UK, of old light. It's it's interesting because when

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Speaker 2: you move over here to Melbourne, you're like, oh my god,

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Speaker 2: the weather is and all the locals complain about the weather, right,

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Speaker 2: and then you go back to the UK and you go,

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Speaker 2: this is what ship weather really is.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's all about perspective. I think if you're comparing

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Speaker 1: to Sydney.

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Speaker 3: Then you know it is.

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Speaker 1: It's a little bit of change in Melbourne, but in

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Speaker 1: comparison to here in is bami. And yeah, I missed

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Speaker 1: the food and the people, and I've still lots of

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Speaker 1: very good friends you look over there, so yes, yeah.

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Speaker 2: Very cool. So look, as you said, you did a

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Speaker 2: new sorry PhD in looking at the gut at the

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Speaker 2: gut microbiome. Just tell our listeners a little bit about

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Speaker 2: the study. Hey, why did you get interested in it?

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Speaker 2: And what was your PhD thesis on exactly?

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Speaker 1: So I, yes, I got really interested in the gut

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Speaker 1: microbiome years ago from a book that came out by

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Speaker 1: doctor Julia Anders, which was called Guts, And that really

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Speaker 1: my love of science again and again really passionate about

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Speaker 1: this very exciting new area of science and research. Because

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Speaker 1: my first career was actually as a chef. So I

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Speaker 1: did my undergrad nutrition worked as a chef for many years,

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Speaker 1: thinking that's what I wanted to do, work with people

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Speaker 1: who had dietary intolerances or specific darty preferences, and then

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Speaker 1: I read this book and just realized I was then

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Speaker 1: getting very very excited about the science again. When I

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Speaker 1: did my master's and then found this PhD at King's

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Speaker 1: College London that was specifically looking at whole foods and

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Speaker 1: the impact of food on the gut microbiome and health,

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Speaker 1: which was just, you know, the most perfect fit for me.

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Speaker 1: So I did that at King's College London, and then

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Speaker 1: I now still work as a researcher. I'm a research

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Speaker 1: fellow at King's College London where I'm still researching diet

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Speaker 1: and the gut microbiome. And it's just such a fascinating

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Speaker 1: area of research because only twenty years ago we didn't

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Speaker 1: really know much about the gut microbiome. There weren't really

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Speaker 1: many research papers, but we now have this rapid escalation

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Speaker 1: and technology that has now allowed us to have and

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Speaker 1: I think, you know, when I last checked a few

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Speaker 1: months ago, there was about sixty thousand research papers on

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Speaker 1: the gut microbiome and rapidly increasing. So it's fascinating, great

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Speaker 1: area of research.

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Speaker 2: Looking I knew it was a crazily expanding area of research,

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Speaker 2: but I had no idea there was sixty thousand publications

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Speaker 2: on it. Now that's mental. Tell us a little bit

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Speaker 2: about your PhD studies or experiments, what exactly were you're

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Speaker 2: looking at?

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Speaker 1: So I was more looking at, So we have a

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Speaker 1: cohort of twins, which effectively means that we've we've followed

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Speaker 1: them for many years, our adult twins, and then we've

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Speaker 1: collected data from them at different points. So what I

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Speaker 1: was looking at was how can we look at the

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Speaker 1: diet data that we had from them, and how could

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Speaker 1: we look at the microbime and the health data in

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Speaker 1: new ways using what's called copational analysis. So this is

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Speaker 1: basically just using machine learning or kind of you know

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Speaker 1: that those fancy you know, machine techniques to be able

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Speaker 1: to explore Okay, how do we picture someone's dit? Can

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Speaker 1: we look at it in a slightly different way, a

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Speaker 1: different lens to then understand this relationship with the microbiomes.

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Speaker 1: I think we all really recognize how complex the microbiome is,

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Speaker 1: but actually nutrition gets slightly, you know, forgotten of being

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Speaker 1: this equally complex part of this relationship too. We all

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Speaker 1: eat in very different unique ways. Our diet kind of

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Speaker 1: changes day to day. So how can we know apply

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Speaker 1: some of the tools that we have. For example, when

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Speaker 1: we're looking at the microbiome, where we're kind of using

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Speaker 1: this computational analysis, can we apply that in a similar

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Speaker 1: way where we're looking at diet and can that then

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Speaker 1: progress our understanding of that relationship because we're using those

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Speaker 1: techniques in a way that helps us to explain this

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Speaker 1: relationship better.

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Speaker 2: And did you find anything surprising or interesting in the

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Speaker 2: PhD studies that you did.

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Speaker 1: I would say when we looked at plant diversity, we

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Speaker 1: had some really interesting signals around fruit diversity, particularly this

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Speaker 1: is kind of unpublished data as yet, we still need

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Speaker 1: to kind of get that published and out. We had

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Speaker 1: just some really interesting relationships with looking at particularly kind

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Speaker 1: of heart health and kind of metabolic health, and it

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Speaker 1: was really kind of good, just really lots of kind

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Speaker 1: of deep dives into how we're understanding this and how

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Speaker 1: we look at the methods and making sure that we're

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Speaker 1: having a very consistent approach to understanding what we need

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Speaker 1: to know and how can we kind of further our

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Speaker 1: knowledge in this field.

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Speaker 2: So let's talk a little bit about the microbiome and

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Speaker 2: hire develops in an individual. So if we go right back,

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Speaker 2: what are is if you just think of the time

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Speaker 2: line of existence of a personal human being, what starts

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Speaker 2: the ball rolling in terms of the composition of their microbiome?

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Speaker 2: And then if we just kind of go through early

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Speaker 2: life one of the big things that will have an

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Speaker 2: influence on it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so there was a few papers out in the

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Speaker 1: last couple of years that suggested that perhaps your gut microbiome,

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Speaker 1: your first dose of microbes, happens when you're still.

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Speaker 3: In your mother's tummy.

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Speaker 1: That is still kind of slightly refuted, when most of

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Speaker 1: the scientists would say at this point that we don't

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Speaker 1: necessarily think that's necessarily happening. I'm not sure what's happening

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Speaker 1: there yet. And actually what we really have good consensus

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Speaker 1: on is that you get your first dose of microbes

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Speaker 1: when you are born. So if you're born by vaginal canal,

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Speaker 1: your first dose of microbes will be from your mother's

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Speaker 1: vaginal microbime, but also from her gut microbime as well.

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Speaker 3: If you think her childbirth being this kind of.

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Speaker 1: Messy process, there are a lot of different elements mixing around,

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Speaker 1: and that's actually a really great thing for your baby's

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Speaker 1: gut microbime because that means that your baby's getting that

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Speaker 1: dose of microbes from both your gut microbime, which will

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Speaker 1: be kind of, you know, some kind of fecal matter,

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Speaker 1: but also from the vaginal microbime. So that's a very

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Speaker 1: much If you're born.

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Speaker 3: By that's your first dose of microbes.

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Speaker 1: If you're born by c section, it is a slightly

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Speaker 1: different story. So that first introduction, that first dosing and

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Speaker 1: seeding of your gut microbime is actually from the skin

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Speaker 1: microbime of your mother and your father, but also the

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Speaker 1: nurses anyone else the hospital adopters, but also from the

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Speaker 1: hospital environment as well. So we think about if we

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Speaker 1: think about the fact we live in this very microbe

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Speaker 1: rich world, there are microbes that over every surface, so

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Speaker 1: you're picking up also microbes from the hospital environment. So

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Speaker 1: that could mean someone can start life with a very

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Speaker 1: different set of microbes than someone else.

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Speaker 2: Just on that point, who's at the risk of oversharing.

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Speaker 2: I have two kids, the first one who was born

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Speaker 2: with an emergency C section and then the second one

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Speaker 2: who was a v back vagournal birth after cesarean and

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Speaker 2: actually was a home birth in the pool, in a

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Speaker 2: in a little sort of home pull our top massive tub.

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Speaker 2: And when Oscar came about, you know, all all the

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Speaker 2: messiness comes out. And it was really interesting because the

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Speaker 2: lady who was doing the home birth, she said, don't

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Speaker 2: wash them, just leave that stuff to dry on and

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Speaker 2: just leave it there for days, because that, as you say,

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Speaker 2: has a massive influence, doesn't it on the composition of

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Speaker 2: somebody's microbarm right out of the gate.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I don't know about specific birthing techniques or you know, modes,

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Speaker 1: but I definitely think, you know, with that first dose

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Speaker 1: of microbes that can kind of kick start. And it's

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Speaker 1: not to say that that's a full picture, you know.

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Speaker 1: I think you know, there's many different factors that influence

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Speaker 1: and effect you've got microbiome, but that does mean that

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Speaker 1: obviously you get that first first starting point of one

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Speaker 1: of the many, many different points that you've got microbime

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Speaker 1: is influenced across your lifetime.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, interesting stuff on Meilbourne. So Melbourne, I'm not sure

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Speaker 2: if you're aware of this, but has the highest rate

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Speaker 2: of allergies anywhere in the world and has also got

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Speaker 2: the highest rate of cesarean section berths anywhere in the world,

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Speaker 2: which is just this kind of crazy quirk of Melbourne

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Speaker 2: that there's so many cesarean sections. But that link. What

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Speaker 2: do we know about the these links with that early

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Speaker 2: life exposure and risks to things particularly like asthma and allergies.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so really it's that first five years of life

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Speaker 1: you've got microbiome is closely developing along.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 1: It's that first starting point of we're really kind of

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Speaker 1: forming into something then becomes more like an adult light

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Speaker 1: gut microbiome. What happens is that's also happening very closely

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Speaker 1: in tandem with your immune system.

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Speaker 3: So there are you know.

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Speaker 1: Seventy percent of your immune cells are found in your gut,

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Speaker 1: and there's a very close relationship between your immune system

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Speaker 1: and you've gut microbim You've got microbime effectively helps to.

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Speaker 3: Train your immune system to.

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Speaker 1: Spot and identify, you know, the bad guys that you

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Speaker 1: don't want there, but also to avoid attacking any of

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Speaker 1: the good kind of harmless kind of citizens that you

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Speaker 1: have in your gut, but also kind of cells in

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Speaker 1: your body. You don't want them to attack that either either.

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Speaker 1: So I kind of talk about it, but like you

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Speaker 1: have if you train your guard dog, you want the

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Speaker 1: guard dog not to attack the postman. You want them

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Speaker 1: to attack, you know, the people coming in the burglars.

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Speaker 1: So that's where you've got microbrian plays a very close

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Speaker 1: role with your immune system, and they're very much in

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Speaker 1: tandem throughout your life. So what we say is if

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Speaker 1: you're microbiome, you know, it's that key development period in

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Speaker 1: that first five years of life that's also very important

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Speaker 1: for your immune system and that ongoing relationship. So what

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Speaker 1: we think there is this relationship in terms of if you,

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Speaker 1: for example, have a lot of antibiotics when you are

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Speaker 1: in that kind of period of life, yes, please do

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Speaker 1: take them if they are life saving medication, if they're

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Speaker 1: really necessary. But if if you're having them when they're

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Speaker 1: not necessary and they're kind of excessive use, that can

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Speaker 1: have then a knock on effect on your gut microbiome

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Speaker 1: and its development. And what we see is that you

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Speaker 1: can potentially then be at higher risk of obesity, of

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Speaker 1: autoimmune diseases, relationship with your immune system, with allergies and intolerances,

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Speaker 1: and you know, we think that this is one of

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Speaker 1: the one of the reasons this might be happening is

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Speaker 1: because of the gut microbiomet this key period of life,

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Speaker 1: whether that is related to being c section, whether it

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Speaker 1: is you know, being formula fair rather than breastfed with

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Speaker 1: breast milk can take special components which feed specifically feed

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Speaker 1: the good bacteria well, this kind of excessive.

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Speaker 3: Use of antibiotics.

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Speaker 1: So there's a lot that we still wanting to tease

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Speaker 1: out and understand about this relationship. But that does seem

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Speaker 1: to be this relationship there.

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Speaker 2: And look, your finger will be much more on the

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Speaker 2: pulse in terms of their current research on this. But

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Speaker 2: I remember reading years ago that particularly then the environment

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Speaker 2: that a child is brought up in has a big influence,

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Speaker 2: like how much sanitition. You know, you see these mothers

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Speaker 2: who are just or dads who are just constantly using

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Speaker 2: those those little cleaning wipes and cleaning jails on their

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Speaker 2: babies and just clean, clean, clean, clean clean, and have

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Speaker 2: this super clean environment versus then farm kids or kids

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Speaker 2: who are free range kids who are just brought up

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Speaker 2: and play in the dirt. You know, things like whether

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Speaker 2: or not you have pets exposed to animals, how much

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Speaker 2: what's the race research are the lead as saying about

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Speaker 2: how much all of those things influence the development of

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Speaker 2: the microbio So.

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Speaker 1: That's called the hygiene hypothesis. So at the moment, it's

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Speaker 1: a kind of theory that our way of modern life

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Speaker 1: is effectively having a negative impact on our gut microbime.

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Speaker 1: But we do see this when we see differences. For example,

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Speaker 1: so we see differences in the gut microbime are people

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Speaker 1: who live in the countryside tend to have a more

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Speaker 1: diverse gut microbiome than people who have, you know, an

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Speaker 1: urban environment. So if you think there's air pollution isaally

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Speaker 1: lib in it in the city, what am I doing?

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Speaker 3: You know?

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Speaker 1: And then you've also you know, we're spending a lot

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Speaker 1: of time indoors, so we're not having that interaction with nature.

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Speaker 1: So if you think, we think back to the fact

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Speaker 1: that microbes all around us, soil is particularly dense in microbes,

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Speaker 1: and just not having this interaction with nature as well.

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Speaker 1: We also see a difference of people who have pets.

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Speaker 1: So for example, if you own a dog, you're more

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Speaker 1: likely to have certain types of bacteria, more types of

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Speaker 1: certain bacteria than other people who don't have pets. We're

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Speaker 1: not sure yet there's some kind of signaling about whether

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Speaker 1: your microbiome might be more diverse if you have a

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Speaker 1: pet first if you don't. But we're still trying to

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Speaker 1: understand and tease out that relationship.

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Speaker 3: But I think there'll be more research on that soon.

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Speaker 1: So I think there's there's you know, and I think

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Speaker 1: we really it's really recognizing that, you know, we spend

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Speaker 1: a lot of time indoors, we are sedentry, we are

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Speaker 1: kind of over enthusiastic with our antibacterial spray. I think

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Speaker 1: we've been brought up to think that all bacteria is

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Speaker 1: just bad bacteria.

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Speaker 3: And yes, it's.

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Speaker 1: Really important to have hygiene on surfaces, particularly in kitchens

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Speaker 1: and food prep and things like that, but actually are

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Speaker 1: we overly using those things? And I think, you know,

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Speaker 1: as a study that kind of highlights it's important the

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Speaker 1: relationship with soil. It's really interesting where the participants effectively

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Speaker 1: dipped their hands into soil three times a day for

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Speaker 1: twenty seconds, and they rub their hands in the soil

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Speaker 1: and they're just rinsed it off with water and over

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Speaker 1: course of a couple of weeks got microbiome diversity improved

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Speaker 1: and increased. So this is a signal more diverse gout

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Speaker 1: microbiome is effectively a little more healthy gut microbiome. And

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Speaker 1: that is because the research has thought that that was

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Speaker 1: effectively improving their skin microbiome, which is again another type

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Speaker 1: of microbiome, Lots of different sites in our body, lots

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Speaker 1: of different microbes. And then that was then introducing new

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Speaker 1: microbes into the gut, because if you think how often

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Speaker 1: we're touching things and introducing to our mouths, and you

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Speaker 1: know they'll be constantly This relationship between our environment and

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Speaker 1: ourselves where we're bringing new microbes.

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Speaker 2: In it is a real fascinating area. And I want

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Speaker 2: to come back to the diversity a little bit later on,

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Speaker 2: but just give people a sense what is the leatest

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Speaker 2: thinking about how modifiable your gut microbiome actually is and

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Speaker 2: is it more modifiable when you're younger or is it

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Speaker 2: modi viable all the way throughout your life and to

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Speaker 2: what sort of an extent can you modify it? Like,

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Speaker 2: what do we know about this now currently?

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Speaker 1: So in the first that first five years of life,

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Speaker 1: I mentioned your gut microbime is in rapid flux, so

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Speaker 1: it's rapidly changing and it hasn't kind of settled down

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Speaker 1: and become more stable. We talk about this kind of

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Speaker 1: more adult like microbiome. We do think that actually it's

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Speaker 1: still you know ef ffactively still developing over your teens,

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Speaker 1: but it's just that more stable point. And when I

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Speaker 1: say stable, I just mean that, say you've got a

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Speaker 1: stomach bug, your gut microbime is much more resilient to

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Speaker 1: just not being completely kind of overhauled by this kind

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Speaker 1: of bad bacteria coming in. So it's actually a really

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Speaker 1: great thing. It's very protective to have a stable gut microbiome,

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Speaker 1: but it also means that it's harder to then shift

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Speaker 1: it for the better as well, because it's more resilient

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Speaker 1: to change. What happens is then throughout life, we're still

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Speaker 1: able to shift and change it because it's a living ecosystem,

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Speaker 1: we both think, but almost like this pet in our

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Speaker 1: gut that we're looking after. And what we see from

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Speaker 1: the research is that actually within three days of changing

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Speaker 1: what you're eating, we can see changes in the gut microbiome.

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Speaker 1: So it's you know, there's rapid changes happening very quickly,

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Speaker 1: but it's also making sure that those changes are very

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Speaker 1: consistent in the long term, because it's very much acknowledging

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Speaker 1: that we also need to shift that core stability as

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Speaker 1: well towards a kind of healthier profile. And it's not

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Speaker 1: just that kind of early changes that we see in

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Speaker 1: those first three days. So I very much walk about

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Speaker 1: the gut microbiome as yes, we can change it, but

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Speaker 1: we need to step back and think about it from

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Speaker 1: a perspective of months and years rather than like being

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Speaker 1: super hyper focused on one meal or one day. And

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Speaker 1: one of the biggest ways that we can change it

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Speaker 1: is through diut because what we eat is effectively directly

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Speaker 1: impacting on the gut microbiome, with our gut bacteria living

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Speaker 1: in our large layer intestine.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I again, I'm going to come back to

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Speaker 2: the eating thing. I think that's going to be a

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Speaker 2: huge part of it. But just give people a little

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Speaker 2: bit of a sense of the row nigh of the

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Speaker 2: gut microbiome in health and disease. I mean, I remember

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Speaker 2: reading studies years ago, and again I'm not up on

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Speaker 2: the most current stuff, but looking at people with both

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Speaker 2: obesity and with diabetes had different balances of bacterials and pirmacutes,

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Speaker 2: and there was talk about, you know, I can't remember

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Speaker 2: which one is more energy harvesting, what do we know?

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Speaker 2: And also the whole gut brian microbio to access, and

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Speaker 2: how the composition of your microbiom can affect your mood,

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Speaker 2: and also how psychological stress can affect your microbiome. Give

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Speaker 2: our listeners a bit of a sense of just what

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Speaker 2: we know about this right.

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Speaker 1: Now absolutely, so we know that everybody's got a microbiome

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Speaker 1: that is a unique to them as a fingerprint. But

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Speaker 1: actually what we really see is that, you know, if

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Speaker 1: you've grouped lots of different people together, that people who

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Speaker 1: have a healthy microbiome tend to kind of have you know,

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Speaker 1: we're able to kind of see them as a certain profile,

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Speaker 1: but in comparison to comparing them to someone who has

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Speaker 1: a disease or a condition, have a very different gut microbiome.

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Speaker 3: And this is what we're seeing.

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Speaker 1: We're seeing that if you have anything from depression or

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Speaker 1: Alzheimer's disease or kind of a different condition like type

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Speaker 1: two diabetes, you've got a different gut microbiome than people

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Speaker 1: who don't have those conditions. And generally, when we're talking about,

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Speaker 1: you know, a microbime with people who have an illness

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Speaker 1: or condition tends to be not always a case, but

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Speaker 1: they do tend to be less diverse and less different

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Speaker 1: types of gut microbacteria. Or it could be that they

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Speaker 1: actually have more pro inflammatory types of gut bacteria, which

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Speaker 1: is less so you know, then you potentially having a

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Speaker 1: cascade of these molecules that they produce, being pro inflammatory

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Speaker 1: and having a knock on effect. We also see, for example,

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Speaker 1: in depression, that there are lower levels of what are

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Speaker 1: called short chain fatty acids. Now, these are specifically types

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Speaker 1: of molecules that your gut bacteria produce when they feed

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Speaker 1: on fiber. So I talked about, you know, the gut microbiome.

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Speaker 1: A lot of people say, oh, it really matters, you

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Speaker 1: know what the names of the gut bacteria are, and

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Speaker 1: I say, well, actually it's actually not necessarily who they are,

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Speaker 1: but what they do, their skill set, and what we

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Speaker 1: really focus on is actually these molecules that they produce.

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Speaker 1: So they can produce, youen, up to fifty thousand different

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Speaker 1: types of molecules, but particularly when they feed on fiber,

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Speaker 1: this plant raffage we get from beans, vegetables, fruits and

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Speaker 1: lagomes and whole grains, they can produce these special molecules

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Speaker 1: called short chain fatty acids. And these short chained fatty

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Speaker 1: acids are really important for the health of our guts

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Speaker 1: but also for the health of our brain.

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Speaker 3: And so seeing them.

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Speaker 1: In lower levels in conditions like depression, you know, it's

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Speaker 1: a signal of this potential involvement of our gut microbiome

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Speaker 1: in this gut brain axis. So to talk about the

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Speaker 1: gut brain axis really exciting early early research in this area,

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Speaker 1: and I think it's really a very rapidly progressing field

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Speaker 1: that is just only expanding. A lot of you know,

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Speaker 1: all us microbio and scientists are fascinated by this air

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Speaker 1: of research, and it's only building and growing. I think

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Speaker 1: in the context of how we think about this relationship

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Speaker 1: between the gut and the brain, or particularly the gut

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Speaker 1: microby and the brain, we also need to kind of

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Speaker 1: almost go back to thinking about evolution to really understand

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Speaker 1: how important and significant this might be. Because I think

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Speaker 1: quite a lot of time when I talk about the

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Speaker 1: gut microbiomes signally to the brain, it can seem a

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Speaker 1: bit baffling almost because how can these microbes that we

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Speaker 1: can't even see that live in our guts? You know,

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Speaker 1: it seems almost a bit fan tastical that they signal

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Speaker 1: to our brain. But actually, if we think back to evolution,

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Speaker 1: before humans even existed on this planet, this planet was

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Speaker 1: so microbrich. You know, this was dominated by microbes. So therefore,

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Speaker 1: you know, we have co evolved with these microbes. There's

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Speaker 1: not been any point during evolution, that we haven't had

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Speaker 1: to kind of cohabit with these microbes throughout our entire

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Speaker 1: evolution until you know, up until now, we're still interacting

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Speaker 1: with microbes every single moment of the day. And I

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Speaker 1: think also, you know, I like to say about if

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Speaker 1: aliens were to come down from space, they wouldn't think

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Speaker 1: of us as as humans necessarily, they would talk about

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Speaker 1: us as being a hybrid species because we have as

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Speaker 1: many microbial cells as we have human cells. So I

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Speaker 1: think in that perspective, that really helps us to understand

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Speaker 1: that microbes are involved in every aspect of our brain development.

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Speaker 1: And actually, then you know, that just puts us in

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Speaker 1: that perspective of actually, yes, now on standing that these

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Speaker 1: microbes are signaling to our brain directly through what's called

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Speaker 1: the bagus nerve, which is a long wandering nerve that

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Speaker 1: connects your brain to your gut, and also through these

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Speaker 1: molecules that are produced those short chain fatty acids, but

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Speaker 1: also others through your immune system. So again we're going

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Speaker 1: back to that relationship with your immune system that's you know,

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Speaker 1: sending sending messages and signals to your brain through immune system,

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Speaker 1: but also through kind of hormones and neurotransmitters as well,

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Speaker 1: So you've got microbiome is involved with our brain and

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Speaker 1: it's very it's very it's very exciting area that we're

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Speaker 1: just understanding how this can affect our mood, our cognition,

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Speaker 1: but also our behavior as well.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it is for me, it's a fascinating it's like

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Speaker 2: it's a new frontier, a whole new frontier of research.

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Speaker 2: Wom I want to come back to the short chain

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Speaker 2: fatty acids and the links with mood and particularly depression.

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Speaker 2: Is it one specifically, like is it beautaryot or is

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Speaker 2: it all of them but reot acity appropriately it a

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Speaker 2: watch one? Or are they all implicated so that they're

438
00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:13,560
Speaker 2: all important?

439
00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:16,240
Speaker 1: And I think generally when we talk about the short

440
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:21,120
Speaker 1: chain fatty acids for our brain health, they're also really

441
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:24,840
Speaker 1: important for our blood brain barrier. This is really particularly

442
00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:27,359
Speaker 1: where we get kind of excited about short chain fatty acids,

443
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:29,440
Speaker 1: so they're able to cross into the brain signals the brain,

444
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:32,320
Speaker 1: but also it's about keeping the health of this blood

445
00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:32,800
Speaker 1: brain barrier.

446
00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:33,960
Speaker 3: So your blood brain barrier is.

447
00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:39,320
Speaker 1: Effectively a protective fortress in casing your brain, and this

448
00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:43,880
Speaker 1: fortress has gates in it that helps to let healthy

449
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:47,359
Speaker 1: molecules through through nutrients through, but it also helps to

450
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:53,280
Speaker 1: keep the gates shut against harmful molecules and invaders. So

451
00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:56,400
Speaker 1: that's where these short chain fattiatids are playing a particular

452
00:24:56,480 --> 00:25:00,680
Speaker 1: role in whether it's specifically different types of short chain acids,

453
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:03,560
Speaker 1: beauty rate is one that we tend to look at

454
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:06,240
Speaker 1: the most, but they all have kind of an anti

455
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:09,720
Speaker 1: inflammatory profile and kind of a signally in different areas

456
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:12,439
Speaker 1: of the body. Even you know, lots of different interesting

457
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:16,879
Speaker 1: researcher even around appropriate for example, in terms of helping

458
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:19,400
Speaker 1: to kind of ease food cravings and through that kind

459
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:21,679
Speaker 1: of signal to the brain. So I think there's a

460
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:24,199
Speaker 1: lot more a lot more for us to kind of

461
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:29,400
Speaker 1: unpick around, you know, what's happening where I think when

462
00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:32,000
Speaker 1: we can talk about this era of research, it is

463
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:34,960
Speaker 1: in a way still slightly a black box because it's

464
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:38,240
Speaker 1: very new and exciting, but some of those relationships are

465
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 1: really getting kind of unpicked, and you know, even just

466
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:44,320
Speaker 1: like last week, for example, we had an exciting new

467
00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:49,240
Speaker 1: study around the top down relationship of stress from our

468
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:53,680
Speaker 1: brain on the gut bacteria and looking in mice. So mice,

469
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:56,719
Speaker 1: of course are not humans. But they can give us

470
00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 1: that early signals of what that mechanism might be. Again,

471
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:03,120
Speaker 1: we have to make sure that's just whether that translates

472
00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:05,760
Speaker 1: into humans or not. But what they found was that

473
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:10,680
Speaker 1: the stress was effectively shutting down specific glands in the gut,

474
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:13,720
Speaker 1: and that meant that those glands were not producing a

475
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:17,040
Speaker 1: certain type of mucus that your lactobacilli, which these are

476
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:20,119
Speaker 1: really kind of good beneficial bacteria like to feed on.

477
00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:22,840
Speaker 1: And then that was having an impact on how many

478
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:26,639
Speaker 1: lacto bosillo the mice had, which then knock on effect

479
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:29,159
Speaker 1: on their immune system, meaning they are more likely to

480
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:32,879
Speaker 1: be susceptible to infections and getting sick. So, you know,

481
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:36,600
Speaker 1: it's really great to have this this research helping us

482
00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:40,040
Speaker 1: to really do a deep dive into what's happening because

483
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:42,760
Speaker 1: a lot of the studies are popular if they're in humans,

484
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:46,560
Speaker 1: their population studies where we're looking at patterns rather than

485
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:49,399
Speaker 1: necessarily cause and effect, and what we really want is

486
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:50,360
Speaker 1: more of these cause.

487
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:51,760
Speaker 3: And effect studies in humans.

488
00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:54,680
Speaker 1: But also that's really helped and supported by having these

489
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:57,719
Speaker 1: my studies that show you know, a cause and effect

490
00:26:57,720 --> 00:26:58,879
Speaker 1: and what that pathway is.

491
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:01,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, they give us a pointer on the stuff to

492
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:04,600
Speaker 2: study in humans, right, But as you say, we always

493
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:07,800
Speaker 2: have to be careful because because we aren't big, nice right.

494
00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:11,439
Speaker 2: But there's a couple of things I wanted to talk

495
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 2: about there that you mentioned. So you talked about the

496
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:18,400
Speaker 2: blood brain barrier, but also this this other barrier between

497
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:22,120
Speaker 2: our gut and the rest of the body, because I'd

498
00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:25,960
Speaker 2: say to people, if we think about it, our entire

499
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:31,040
Speaker 2: digestive tract is essentially a tube that is external to

500
00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:33,960
Speaker 2: the body, even though it's inside us, right, And it's

501
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:37,000
Speaker 2: the easiest or one of the easiest ways for pathogens

502
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 2: to get in, which is why we have stomach acid.

503
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:42,560
Speaker 2: And then when we get down into our colon, we've

504
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:47,200
Speaker 2: got this mucous membrane and these these villai. So talk

505
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:50,280
Speaker 2: to our listeners about what happens. I remember reading a

506
00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:53,159
Speaker 2: fascinating pier for years ago, and the upshot of it

507
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:57,880
Speaker 2: basically is, if you're not getting enough fiber, some of

508
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:02,920
Speaker 2: the microbes that would normally feed off fiber essentially turn

509
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:06,680
Speaker 2: into cannibals and they start to eat the mucous membrane,

510
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:13,359
Speaker 2: which then makes our gut barrier more susceptible to being penetrated.

511
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:15,720
Speaker 2: We get that leaky gut syndrome with some people talk

512
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:19,400
Speaker 2: about but then you get an immune reaction. So talk

513
00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 2: to us about why we need to have particularly fiber

514
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:28,920
Speaker 2: and this specific types of fiber because everybody hears fiber, fiber, fiber, right,

515
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:32,040
Speaker 2: but for me, when you dive down into the gut,

516
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:34,439
Speaker 2: that's where the magic happens, right.

517
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:36,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, So fiber. I talked about fiber as being a

518
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:39,720
Speaker 1: bit like Clark Kent that you know, it's before Lois

519
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:41,120
Speaker 1: Lane realized he was Superman.

520
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 3: We've had such a kind of you.

521
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:46,040
Speaker 1: Know, poor poor fibers has just been kind of sidelined

522
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:48,160
Speaker 1: as being something a bit dull and boring and just

523
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:49,640
Speaker 1: kind of helps you go to the bathroom.

524
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:50,480
Speaker 3: And that's about it.

525
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:53,680
Speaker 1: It's actually, you know, it's the closest thing we have

526
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:57,440
Speaker 1: to a superfood. It is, you know, so important not

527
00:28:57,480 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 1: just forrog about microbine, but also our whole body. How

528
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:03,200
Speaker 1: I mean, if we think about it, in the frame

529
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:06,160
Speaker 1: of a can of beans five so five grams of

530
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:09,400
Speaker 1: fibers about a third of a can of chippeas that's

531
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:12,080
Speaker 1: every five grams of fiber you have is related to

532
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:15,280
Speaker 1: a five percent lower risk of depression for every half

533
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:17,560
Speaker 1: a can of every half a can of beans that

534
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:20,960
Speaker 1: are seven grams of fibers related to a nine percent

535
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:24,040
Speaker 1: lower risk of heart disease, six percent lower risk of

536
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:27,480
Speaker 1: type two diabetes, and apercent lower risk of chloractal cancer.

537
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:30,000
Speaker 3: So fiber is I'm very.

538
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:32,000
Speaker 1: Big on fiber, and when it comes to the gut

539
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 1: microbime so effectively you know, we have in our name

540
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:38,160
Speaker 1: on where we're eating food and our gut, we are

541
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:41,880
Speaker 1: not able to fully digest and process fiber on our own,

542
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:45,880
Speaker 1: so it passes through your own small intestine where ninety

543
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:48,560
Speaker 1: five percent of the foods you eat, the nutrients are

544
00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 1: absorbed into your lower large intestine and right onto the

545
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:54,959
Speaker 1: dining table of your gut bacteria.

546
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:57,760
Speaker 3: And your gut bacteria particularly love.

547
00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:00,560
Speaker 1: To eat fiber, and they feed on this fiber and

548
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:03,640
Speaker 1: that helps them to produce those special molecules where you

549
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:07,360
Speaker 1: mentioned short chain fatty acids, and it's really this relationship

550
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:10,600
Speaker 1: between fiber helping them feed, the helping them grow, helping

551
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:14,600
Speaker 1: them flourish, and helping them to produce these special short

552
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:17,120
Speaker 1: chain fatti aids and other molecules. Side note, there's that

553
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:19,480
Speaker 1: short term fatty acids are really important as well for

554
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 1: the health of your gut barrier lining, so that kind

555
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 1: of inside wall against the murky matter within that's kind

556
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:29,400
Speaker 1: of separating your body. So larn like us, we can

557
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:32,080
Speaker 1: pop to the shops, right, we can restock our friage,

558
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:34,720
Speaker 1: and if you're feeling hungry, we can go and grab

559
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:37,960
Speaker 1: a bad bag a bite to eat for our gut microbes.

560
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 1: If they're not getting you know, food that is less

561
00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:42,800
Speaker 1: rely coming onto their dining table in your large luwer

562
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 1: in testine, then yes, they do slightly start to chew furniture,

563
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 1: which is effectively.

564
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:48,520
Speaker 3: You and your mucus.

565
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:53,280
Speaker 1: So this mucus layer effectively acts like a kind of

566
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:57,480
Speaker 1: soft pillowy downing was probably more sludgy than that, that

567
00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:02,440
Speaker 1: lines your gut barrier liner and effectively acts as a

568
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 1: barrier against micros the other kind of anything that might

569
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:09,840
Speaker 1: potentially be harmful. And it's just very kind of protective

570
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:13,520
Speaker 1: kind of lubricant of your gut on your gut barrier lining.

571
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:16,440
Speaker 1: So if you start to lose some of that mucus layer,

572
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:20,880
Speaker 1: that means that microbes, whether they're good or kind of

573
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:24,040
Speaker 1: you know, necessarily potentially being harmful in this case, can

574
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:27,800
Speaker 1: then start to kind of reach that gut barrier lining,

575
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:32,120
Speaker 1: which then signals to your immune system there's something wrong.

576
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:33,920
Speaker 1: They're like your immune sister goes into a bit of

577
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:36,880
Speaker 1: a panic, saying, oh, hold on, there are you know,

578
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:40,480
Speaker 1: tresparses here that shouldn't be here, that can potentially then

579
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:44,960
Speaker 1: trespass through into your body, which then again puts your

580
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:48,719
Speaker 1: immune system onto alert. And this could be then one

581
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 1: of the pathways why we see that having less fiber

582
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:57,520
Speaker 1: is then associated with having kind of high risk of

583
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:01,480
Speaker 1: many diseases because you're then having this you know, knock

584
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:06,880
Speaker 1: on cascade effect of inflammation. Is that then triggering potentially

585
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:09,680
Speaker 1: a higher disease risk, And it's this kind of knock

586
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:13,560
Speaker 1: on pathway, And we've seen this very clearly in my studies.

587
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:17,000
Speaker 1: Again caveat with my studies, but just trying to understand

588
00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:20,400
Speaker 1: kind of what's happening where where they fed the mice

589
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 1: are kind of unhealthy kind of kibble, and they found

590
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:28,560
Speaker 1: that they're gut barrier lining then became leaky, and then

591
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:31,720
Speaker 1: they saw directly that these kind of microbes were then

592
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:34,680
Speaker 1: able to pass through and actually travel to the brain

593
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:37,520
Speaker 1: where they shouldn't be, so just trespassing. And then they

594
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:41,760
Speaker 1: saw their levels of inflammation in the mice's brain. But

595
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 1: actually then when they switched them onto a healthier kibble

596
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:49,560
Speaker 1: that got a barrier, lining became strong again, and they

597
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:52,880
Speaker 1: didn't see this this kind of translocation of the bacteria

598
00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:57,120
Speaker 1: or the kind of raised elevated levels in the brain either. Yeah,

599
00:32:57,160 --> 00:32:59,040
Speaker 1: we definitely need I'm very big on the fact that

600
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:01,320
Speaker 1: we need to be eating more fiber, particularly in the

601
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:05,200
Speaker 1: context that most of us are on average only getting

602
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:08,800
Speaker 1: sixty percent about fiber needs. So we've really got this big,

603
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:12,160
Speaker 1: big fiber deficit on a daily basis that we need

604
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:13,960
Speaker 1: to be solving, well not just log go up by

605
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:15,600
Speaker 1: teriable so for ourselves as well.

606
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:19,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I know that that studies looking particularly the

607
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:24,600
Speaker 2: Hadza hunter gallery tribe in Tanzania have got way more

608
00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 2: diversity in They've got microbiome in a shitload more fiber

609
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:32,760
Speaker 2: than we do. Right, So let's not get into the

610
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 2: stuff that people can actually eat. And when you talk fiber,

611
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:42,480
Speaker 2: are we specifically talking about resistant starch or is it

612
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:46,120
Speaker 2: just any type of fiber is good fiber. And then

613
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:49,040
Speaker 2: also there's probably a good point to bring in the

614
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:52,360
Speaker 2: role of fermented foods and any other types of foods

615
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:54,240
Speaker 2: that we know are good, and then we'll go and

616
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:55,520
Speaker 2: we'll talk about the bad stuff.

617
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:58,680
Speaker 1: So when we're talking about fiber, I'm actually a bit

618
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:02,200
Speaker 1: a big advocate of talking about or fiber because I think,

619
00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:05,080
Speaker 1: really we've got to talk about the health of the gut,

620
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:07,680
Speaker 1: the home of the gut microbes, as much as we

621
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:11,279
Speaker 1: talk about what foods are particular gut bacteria particularly like

622
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:15,359
Speaker 1: to feed on. So fiber isn't just yeah, fiber isn't

623
00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:18,080
Speaker 1: just one one thing, it's many different types of fiber.

624
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:21,440
Speaker 1: Resistant starch kind of gets punched in on this because

625
00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:23,919
Speaker 1: risids of the starch also helps to feed the gut

626
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:27,320
Speaker 1: bacteria that technically it's not fiber. So there are certain

627
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:31,960
Speaker 1: types of fiber called prebiotic fibers, which effectively just mean

628
00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:35,440
Speaker 1: the kind of substance that your gut bacteria particularly like

629
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:37,920
Speaker 1: to feed on and then then housing knock on health effect.

630
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:44,720
Speaker 1: So these particular prebiotic fibers include things like inulin, doologosaccharides, glacioligosaccharides,

631
00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:50,759
Speaker 1: and these are found naturally in onions, beans, asparagus, garlic, jery,

632
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:54,880
Speaker 1: cinemat chokes, and these types of fiber, your gut bacteria

633
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:57,200
Speaker 1: is like throwing them afield at a party. You kind

634
00:34:57,200 --> 00:34:59,759
Speaker 1: of there are having an absolute kind of festival your

635
00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:02,560
Speaker 1: gut when you eat these types of fibers. But I

636
00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 1: would say, you know, generally, it's rather than kind of

637
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:08,560
Speaker 1: zooming in and focusing just on those types of thinking, Okay,

638
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:10,240
Speaker 1: I'm just going to think about these types of fibers,

639
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:13,239
Speaker 1: I really think it's actually just getting enough fiber in

640
00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:15,720
Speaker 1: in general, and getting that variety lots of different foods

641
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:18,919
Speaker 1: to contain a variety of different fibers that we're talking

642
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:23,400
Speaker 1: about again, those plant foods, fruits, vegetables, beans, nuts and seeds,

643
00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:26,840
Speaker 1: whole grains, and just really trying to get that thirty

644
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:30,000
Speaker 1: grams that were recommended a day of fiber to really

645
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:33,120
Speaker 1: just help you know health of your gut. But also

646
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:36,160
Speaker 1: you've got bacteria. And there's definitely a few chips and tricks,

647
00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:39,799
Speaker 1: as I mentioned in my book, My Yeah, that we

648
00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:42,680
Speaker 1: can do that are really easy and practical that don't

649
00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:44,719
Speaker 1: we to think about it too much. We just make

650
00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 1: sure that these are the things that we can do

651
00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 1: on a regular basis.

652
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:50,399
Speaker 2: Let's talk a little bit ABOUTE I would imagine you're

653
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:52,880
Speaker 2: familiar with this Stamford study from I think it was

654
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:54,600
Speaker 2: a couple of years ago where they took a bunch

655
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:57,800
Speaker 2: of people on the SAD diet, the standard American diet,

656
00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:01,200
Speaker 2: and feared half of them a diet that was high

657
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:04,080
Speaker 2: in fiber and then the other half that was high

658
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:08,120
Speaker 2: and fermented foods, and they graded them into it. And

659
00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:11,200
Speaker 2: what they actually find, much to their surprise, was that

660
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:13,759
Speaker 2: lots of the people on the high fiber diet did

661
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:16,880
Speaker 2: really well and their inflammation went down, but some of

662
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:21,200
Speaker 2: them their inflammation markers went up, and everybody on their

663
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 2: fermented foods diet did better. And their their hypothesis, I

664
00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:29,040
Speaker 2: think from memory, was that that basically, if you've been

665
00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:32,880
Speaker 2: eating a shit diet for quite a while, you have

666
00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:37,839
Speaker 2: basically starved out the really beneficial microbes, and then when

667
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:41,600
Speaker 2: the lots of fiber comes in, it can be problematic

668
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:45,760
Speaker 2: for some people who have had that long term crappy diet,

669
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:50,160
Speaker 2: but bringing fermented foods was like kind of fertilizing the

670
00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:52,920
Speaker 2: entire gut. Did you see that study and do you

671
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:54,359
Speaker 2: have any comments on it?

672
00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:54,959
Speaker 3: Yeah?

673
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:58,240
Speaker 1: So, I think really what there was from what reading

674
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:01,520
Speaker 1: that study was that they felt that for the for

675
00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:04,759
Speaker 1: the high fiber diet, that it wasn't a long enough

676
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:07,359
Speaker 1: time to really kind of see the benefits that they

677
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:09,960
Speaker 1: were expecting to see from the high fiber diet. And

678
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:13,440
Speaker 1: I think also they didn't necessarily look at, you know,

679
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:16,800
Speaker 1: the molecules that were being produced by fiber dit so

680
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:19,160
Speaker 1: I think quite often so there's other studies, for example,

681
00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:22,320
Speaker 1: where they haven't seen a change in the diversity or

682
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:25,640
Speaker 1: the makeup of the gut microbiome, but they've seen that

683
00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:29,960
Speaker 1: the metabolomes the molecules are produced can be completely different.

684
00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:32,960
Speaker 1: And I think again with fiber we do need to

685
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:36,440
Speaker 1: kind of very much think in a very individualized, personalized

686
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:40,000
Speaker 1: way that you know, it's a very much go low,

687
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:43,000
Speaker 1: start low, you know, go slow. It's a step wise

688
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:45,920
Speaker 1: approach where you know, if you're you don't want to

689
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:47,800
Speaker 1: go from zero to hero because then you're going to

690
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:51,640
Speaker 1: probably get uncomfortable symptoms because we know that when you've

691
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:53,960
Speaker 1: got better of feed on fiber, they also produce gas

692
00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:56,640
Speaker 1: side effects. So if you're going from zero to hero,

693
00:37:57,040 --> 00:38:00,600
Speaker 1: that can then mean that you're having you know, uncomfortable

694
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:03,839
Speaker 1: bloating and can't flop the justice symptoms. And if you've

695
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:07,640
Speaker 1: got a gut microbme that is actually not very healthy profile.

696
00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:10,520
Speaker 1: That might just be a period of change that you

697
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:12,800
Speaker 1: need to work on an individual way, being like, actually,

698
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:16,000
Speaker 1: I want to just slowly, softly increase this. So I

699
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:19,399
Speaker 1: think there was some interesting kind of comments around that, being,

700
00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 1: you know, white, don't they necessarily see such strong signals

701
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:26,680
Speaker 1: as they did in the fermented food study, sorry, fermented

702
00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:29,200
Speaker 1: food arm. So in the fermented food arm they effectively

703
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:33,920
Speaker 1: encouraged the participants to have six servings of fermented foods

704
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:38,840
Speaker 1: a day. This sounds very intimidating, it sounds very Actually,

705
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:41,759
Speaker 1: I think it's we've got to really think about broadening

706
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:44,879
Speaker 1: that that understanding of what fermented foods are. They're not

707
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:50,000
Speaker 1: just you know, kombucha and kimchi akafe. You know, for example,

708
00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:53,000
Speaker 1: you can get fresh olives that are from a local

709
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:57,759
Speaker 1: producer are fermented foods. Cheeses are fermented foods, and they're

710
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:00,239
Speaker 1: a lot different fermented foods you can get and of

711
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:04,280
Speaker 1: also kind of fermented other drinks and lots of different

712
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:04,960
Speaker 1: things about.

713
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:08,080
Speaker 2: Me so soap as well, right, and yeah, anything that's

714
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:11,080
Speaker 2: in vinegar. So you're right, there is there is a

715
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:15,359
Speaker 2: there's a huge amount of choice and what I am

716
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:20,040
Speaker 2: aware of time so other than making sure that they're

717
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:22,920
Speaker 2: getting a lot of fiber and maybe introducing some fermented

718
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:27,920
Speaker 2: foods into their diet. What are your big recommendations around diet,

719
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:32,840
Speaker 2: both to do and not to do. Presumably we should

720
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:35,839
Speaker 2: be decreasing our intakes of ultra processed foods as part

721
00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:36,120
Speaker 2: of this.

722
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:39,600
Speaker 1: Whole thing, So I very much focus on adding things

723
00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:43,919
Speaker 1: in because I think naturally you then end up crist out.

724
00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:46,239
Speaker 1: And I think that for me just feels from a

725
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:50,160
Speaker 1: behavioral science perspective as well, is just much easier for

726
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:53,400
Speaker 1: us to kind of stick to. It's much more encouraging,

727
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:55,320
Speaker 1: it's much more fun. And I think also for I

728
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:57,400
Speaker 1: got back to it, it's going back to that perspective

729
00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:00,520
Speaker 1: of Okay, ninety five percent of the nutrient for the

730
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:03,719
Speaker 1: foods you eat get absorbed in the small intestine. So

731
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:06,640
Speaker 1: a lot of the kind of quote unquote, you know,

732
00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:10,200
Speaker 1: theoretically kind of bad foods, which you know, I would say,

733
00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:13,160
Speaker 1: actually everything in moderation and like slice of cake's not

734
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:15,440
Speaker 1: gonna do anything to your gut. Bacteria is probably just

735
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:17,480
Speaker 1: going to be absorbed in your small intestine. So actually

736
00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:20,719
Speaker 1: it's about getting the foods to your large intestine and

737
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:23,799
Speaker 1: making sure that you're getting enough of those fiber rich

738
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:27,959
Speaker 1: containing foods and also those fermented foods that then feed

739
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:30,880
Speaker 1: your got bacteria are the really key important things to

740
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:33,840
Speaker 1: be doubling down and focusing on. So I've mentioned the

741
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:37,640
Speaker 1: prebiotic fiber foods earlier, but I think when we're talking

742
00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:40,600
Speaker 1: about fiber, I find it really interesting we're so fixated

743
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:43,200
Speaker 1: on protein. And yes, protein is important, and I think

744
00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:46,319
Speaker 1: everybody kind of understands what high protein foods are. You know,

745
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:48,160
Speaker 1: if I say to someone, you know, what's a high

746
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:51,640
Speaker 1: protein food, straightaway say kind of meat, fish, eggs. But

747
00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:54,480
Speaker 1: when we talk about fiber, we have a complete lack

748
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:57,359
Speaker 1: of understanding about actually what high fiber foods are.

749
00:40:57,440 --> 00:40:58,839
Speaker 3: I think most people want to ask them.

750
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:02,360
Speaker 1: We'll say maybe something like lettuce or salad, but actually,

751
00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:05,080
Speaker 1: you know, lettuce is a great example where actually it

752
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:09,319
Speaker 1: contains one point eight grams of fiber per hunch grams, which,

753
00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:15,000
Speaker 1: don't get me wrong, is fine, but in comparisonpla spectacular.

754
00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:17,200
Speaker 1: So if we think about, you know, the chickpea fiber

755
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:20,480
Speaker 1: example that contains four to five times more fiber than

756
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:23,759
Speaker 1: that lettuce does, again in comparison, we talk about nuts

757
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:28,239
Speaker 1: of seeds. Even just two tablespoons of cheer seeds or

758
00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:31,640
Speaker 1: flax seeds, that's six grams of fiber. Again, thinking about

759
00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:34,600
Speaker 1: how you're swapping your bread is a really great easy

760
00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:38,200
Speaker 1: way to up your fiber content. So something called you know,

761
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:41,080
Speaker 1: the rye pump nickel bread might not be your go

762
00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:43,560
Speaker 1: to every day one of choice, but that even just

763
00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:46,480
Speaker 1: one slice contains that six grams of fiber. So that's

764
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:49,600
Speaker 1: you know, these really great Yeah. So I talk about

765
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:52,160
Speaker 1: I talk about the b gbgs as being the kind

766
00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:58,040
Speaker 1: of big high fiber hitters, and they're effectively beans, greens, berries, grains,

767
00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:02,040
Speaker 1: and nuts of seeds. So green duck greens tend to

768
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:04,920
Speaker 1: be higher and fiber than a lot of other vegetables.

769
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:08,120
Speaker 1: Same with berries because they contain those seeds in them

770
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:11,759
Speaker 1: which given an extra fiber boost. But again, these are

771
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:16,000
Speaker 1: both really kind of rich sources of other photoonutrients that

772
00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:18,440
Speaker 1: are really important for our gust and our brain health

773
00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:18,920
Speaker 1: as well.

774
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:21,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think that's really an important part is

775
00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:26,600
Speaker 2: it's the it's the whole food metrix that's really important,

776
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:30,040
Speaker 2: and we tend to zero in on little food components.

777
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:33,160
Speaker 2: So if you're eating real foods, yes, you're going to

778
00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:34,839
Speaker 2: get a lot more fiber, but you're going to get

779
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:39,720
Speaker 2: a lot of polyphenols and flavonoids that do amazing things

780
00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:44,040
Speaker 2: in our biochemistry. A couple of questions, last ones because

781
00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:46,120
Speaker 2: I am aware that you have to go and do

782
00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:50,880
Speaker 2: an interview. So say somebody has an issue with, for instance,

783
00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:55,080
Speaker 2: pod maps, are they just going to struggle forever or

784
00:42:55,920 --> 00:43:00,200
Speaker 2: is that reversible by diet, by manipulation of the got

785
00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:01,719
Speaker 2: microbam do we know anything on that?

786
00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:02,279
Speaker 3: Yeah?

787
00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:05,720
Speaker 1: So so people somebody's got kind of fodmap in tolerance,

788
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:08,360
Speaker 1: that seems to be that it've got irritable bow syndrome.

789
00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:11,759
Speaker 1: An irritable bowel syndrome is a disorder of the gut

790
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:15,239
Speaker 1: brain connection, and we think that there's very much a

791
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:18,840
Speaker 1: strong component of the gut bacteria in that. Again, this

792
00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:21,319
Speaker 1: is kind of still evolving of o understanding of kind

793
00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:24,440
Speaker 1: of how that relationship is. I think when thinking about

794
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:27,320
Speaker 1: lowfob maps, I mean, so, my work's a dietitian.

795
00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:28,680
Speaker 3: I used to have a clinic for a while and.

796
00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:32,000
Speaker 1: I would always, so far too often see people coming

797
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:33,920
Speaker 1: in who have been on a low fov map diet

798
00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:36,840
Speaker 1: for a year or more, and it's a very highly

799
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:40,680
Speaker 1: restrictive diet and actually really you're only meant to be

800
00:43:40,719 --> 00:43:42,840
Speaker 1: on it for you know, a period of six to

801
00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:44,840
Speaker 1: eight weeks, and then you work closely one and one

802
00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:48,600
Speaker 1: other dietitian to effectively try and understand which of the

803
00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:51,359
Speaker 1: pod maps, because there's different types of pod maps, are

804
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:54,520
Speaker 1: the ones that are triggering you. And then also you

805
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:57,640
Speaker 1: can likely very much have some of those pod maps still,

806
00:43:57,680 --> 00:44:01,600
Speaker 1: it's just maybe what are the levels those view It's

807
00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:05,360
Speaker 1: a bit like you know, filling a bucket with water.

808
00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:07,680
Speaker 1: You know you can have some, but then it's when

809
00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:09,920
Speaker 1: it overflows that's when you're going to get symptoms.

810
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:11,240
Speaker 3: So it's very.

811
00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:13,759
Speaker 1: Much a personalized approach, and I do think it's really

812
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:16,200
Speaker 1: important with the low film maps to work with someone

813
00:44:16,239 --> 00:44:21,000
Speaker 1: because it is a very complex and personalized diet. And

814
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:23,920
Speaker 1: that then means that you're then able to still have

815
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:26,719
Speaker 1: that diversity of different foods that we know are really important,

816
00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:29,200
Speaker 1: but still helping you to get that fiber in, but

817
00:44:29,239 --> 00:44:31,560
Speaker 1: in a way that's helping you feel comfortable, it's not

818
00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:32,719
Speaker 1: triggering your symptoms.

819
00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:36,520
Speaker 2: Awesome, great answer, and that leads me nicely into the

820
00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:40,600
Speaker 2: last question. So you talked about personalized that once you

821
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:42,399
Speaker 2: come up a couple of times. And I think it's

822
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:45,080
Speaker 2: really important because you know, when we see research study,

823
00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:48,120
Speaker 2: the results are the averages, but there's lots of individual

824
00:44:48,239 --> 00:44:52,319
Speaker 2: variations within that, right, But how far are we I

825
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:55,839
Speaker 2: see someone recently from a US company who does got

826
00:44:55,920 --> 00:45:01,880
Speaker 2: microbiom testing NY talking about personal your diet and eating

827
00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:06,759
Speaker 2: specific to your gut microbiome. How far do you think

828
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:10,600
Speaker 2: we are away from that in reality? And you know,

829
00:45:10,680 --> 00:45:14,000
Speaker 2: for me, it's like, well, I mean, is that really

830
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:15,239
Speaker 2: what you want to do? Or do you want to

831
00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:19,000
Speaker 2: be optimizing your gut microbiome through your food rather than

832
00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:22,360
Speaker 2: eating in a manner that's going to support what's already there?

833
00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:24,799
Speaker 2: What's your what's your thoughts on this whole idea of

834
00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:26,200
Speaker 2: personalizing your diet?

835
00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:30,120
Speaker 1: So I think I think we're really quite not quite

836
00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:32,560
Speaker 1: there yet. I think there's a lot of it's a

837
00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:34,160
Speaker 1: bit of a wild West out there when it comes

838
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:37,040
Speaker 1: to microbime testing. And I think when I say to people,

839
00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:39,920
Speaker 1: you know, if you you know, they're very expensive as well,

840
00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:41,960
Speaker 1: And I say, if you want to know what bacteria

841
00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:44,640
Speaker 1: you have in your guts, then that's what your microbime

842
00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:47,080
Speaker 1: test is going to tell you. If you're wanting to

843
00:45:47,160 --> 00:45:51,840
Speaker 1: have any advice but special advice from that microbime test,

844
00:45:52,239 --> 00:45:53,719
Speaker 1: it's not going to give you what it's what you're

845
00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:56,200
Speaker 1: looking for, because of science is just not there yet

846
00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:59,520
Speaker 1: when you're looking at a standardde microbiome test. And actually,

847
00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:02,719
Speaker 1: you know, it's really those broad pictures of what we

848
00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:03,560
Speaker 1: talked about today.

849
00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:06,080
Speaker 3: It's talking about this relevant for everyone. It's talking about

850
00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:06,719
Speaker 3: fiber for.

851
00:46:06,719 --> 00:46:10,719
Speaker 1: Metal foods obviously according to what your taste preferences are,

852
00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:13,560
Speaker 1: what makes your body feel good, you know, whether you

853
00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:16,000
Speaker 1: have for example, and in tolerance that we talked about earlier,

854
00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:19,120
Speaker 1: or art. But it's really that broad picture viewpoint of

855
00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:21,359
Speaker 1: what supports your gut microbiome. And in a way that's

856
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:23,520
Speaker 1: great because then we get a variety of lots of

857
00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:25,279
Speaker 1: different things, so we don't feel that we just have

858
00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:28,040
Speaker 1: to eat red peppers for the rest of our lives.

859
00:46:27,719 --> 00:46:29,200
Speaker 3: So that's.

860
00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:31,160
Speaker 1: So.

861
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:31,480
Speaker 3: Yeah.

862
00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:33,239
Speaker 1: So I think I think we know. I've done a

863
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:36,360
Speaker 1: bit of research myself at King's where we've looked at

864
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:39,360
Speaker 1: kind of relationships with microbes and different foods, and I

865
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:42,760
Speaker 1: think we're just you know, we're seeing kind of signals,

866
00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:44,279
Speaker 1: but I just think we're not quite there.

867
00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:44,560
Speaker 2: Yet.

868
00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:47,080
Speaker 1: And I think really what we need is to really

869
00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:51,400
Speaker 1: really understand and have much better viewpoints on, you know,

870
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:54,640
Speaker 1: the nutritional composition of each of these different foods, to

871
00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:58,000
Speaker 1: really understand, you know, look at the different fiber contents

872
00:46:58,040 --> 00:47:00,200
Speaker 1: at these different foods and then just say, okay, we'll

873
00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:04,040
Speaker 1: actually really breaking down the different components and then see

874
00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:06,200
Speaker 1: perhaps a relationship there. But I just think we're not

875
00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:08,160
Speaker 1: We're really not there yet. I would say that probably

876
00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:11,120
Speaker 1: the next maybe five ten years.

877
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:12,440
Speaker 3: Maybe we'll have more of an understanding.

878
00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:15,279
Speaker 1: I'll probably say closer to ten years, but in a

879
00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:17,319
Speaker 1: way we don't do we really need to know that.

880
00:47:18,040 --> 00:47:19,680
Speaker 1: I think it's got to be done in a way

881
00:47:19,719 --> 00:47:22,440
Speaker 1: that's helpful and it's not going to just make our

882
00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:25,319
Speaker 1: diet then something that is kind of quite scary and

883
00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:28,359
Speaker 1: intimidating because we think we've got to do xyzed all

884
00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:30,719
Speaker 1: the time and it becomes hyper focused, because then that's

885
00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:33,600
Speaker 1: causing extra stress that's then having a knock on effect

886
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:35,880
Speaker 1: from your brain down to your gut. So I think

887
00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:38,680
Speaker 1: everything just needs to have a kind of your yeah

888
00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:40,800
Speaker 1: perspective on it that's practical.

889
00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:44,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, look, I agree, I don't think by there yet,

890
00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:46,920
Speaker 2: and just the fact that you said earlier that we

891
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:50,600
Speaker 2: know that by tweaking your diet for three days it

892
00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:54,440
Speaker 2: can change the composition of your gut microbiome tends to

893
00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:58,840
Speaker 2: suggest that getting a microbium test is just a snapshot

894
00:47:58,880 --> 00:48:01,839
Speaker 2: of what it's like right now, and it might be

895
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:04,640
Speaker 2: tweaked a little bit depending on what you're eating in

896
00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:06,879
Speaker 2: the next few days and how much alcohol and all

897
00:48:06,920 --> 00:48:08,920
Speaker 2: that sort of stuff. So we don't know if it's

898
00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:13,080
Speaker 2: completely stealable, right, So I think basing your whole diet

899
00:48:13,120 --> 00:48:16,760
Speaker 2: on a one snapshot is probably not the right answer.

900
00:48:17,280 --> 00:48:19,800
Speaker 2: What is the right answer, though, is buying your book.

901
00:48:20,280 --> 00:48:24,560
Speaker 2: So where can people go to a find out about

902
00:48:24,560 --> 00:48:28,080
Speaker 2: your book and your work and socials all of that

903
00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:29,759
Speaker 2: sort of stuff. Where do we say in people to

904
00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:30,520
Speaker 2: find out more?

905
00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:30,879
Speaker 3: Great?

906
00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:34,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, So my book is called Genius Gut, The Life

907
00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:38,200
Speaker 1: Changing Science of Eating for your Second Brain, and it

908
00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:42,800
Speaker 1: is effectively a simple guide to everything gut health, everything

909
00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:45,520
Speaker 1: got microbiome from my perspective, as you know, as I

910
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:48,920
Speaker 1: talked about a microbrime scientist, dietician and also as a chef,

911
00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:52,880
Speaker 1: so it's very practical. There are ten simple hacks for

912
00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:57,319
Speaker 1: your gut brain connection, focusing on not just what you eat,

913
00:48:57,440 --> 00:49:02,120
Speaker 1: but how you eat as well to your mood, your cognition,

914
00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:05,239
Speaker 1: so being mentally sharp and also just generally kind of

915
00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:09,759
Speaker 1: feeling energized and feeling your best. So that is going

916
00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:12,040
Speaker 1: to be available in Australia towards the end of the year,

917
00:49:12,040 --> 00:49:14,600
Speaker 1: but it's available in the UK currently in all kind

918
00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:18,160
Speaker 1: of major bookshops and Amazon. So I definitely I know

919
00:49:18,239 --> 00:49:20,799
Speaker 1: I wrote it, so I feel like biased in saying this,

920
00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:24,040
Speaker 1: but it really is everything that I've ever wanted anyone

921
00:49:24,080 --> 00:49:27,160
Speaker 1: to know on your gut health in really practical terms

922
00:49:27,239 --> 00:49:30,440
Speaker 1: that you can really put into praise and in a

923
00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:33,439
Speaker 1: way that's also enjoyable, according to what you like to eat.

924
00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:36,400
Speaker 1: That's not just anything kind of wild and crazy. It's

925
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:38,040
Speaker 1: like all of the things you really want to know and

926
00:49:38,120 --> 00:49:40,560
Speaker 1: need to know if you've got health. You can also

927
00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:45,319
Speaker 1: find me on socials, so it's doctor Emilyleming, and my

928
00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:49,920
Speaker 1: website is www dot Emilyleming dot com. And yes, and

929
00:49:49,960 --> 00:49:53,000
Speaker 1: I say I've actually should mention I've got a free

930
00:49:53,080 --> 00:49:56,960
Speaker 1: weekly email newsletter on the gut brain connection called Second

931
00:49:57,000 --> 00:49:59,360
Speaker 1: Brain that you can sign up either through my website

932
00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:00,600
Speaker 1: or through substack.

933
00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:04,720
Speaker 2: Excellent. Okay, So there you go, people, doctor Emily Leming

934
00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:08,080
Speaker 2: dot com and go out and get her book, because

935
00:50:08,080 --> 00:50:12,240
Speaker 2: who doesn't want a genius cut? Emily, this has been awesome.

936
00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:16,680
Speaker 2: You are a true master of your craft and put

937
00:50:16,719 --> 00:50:19,480
Speaker 2: it across very eloquently as well. So thank you for

938
00:50:19,520 --> 00:50:23,120
Speaker 2: giving up your valuable time. And I know that lots

939
00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:25,000
Speaker 2: of people will have got lots of good things out

940
00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:26,959
Speaker 2: of this, so keep doing your cool work.

941
00:50:27,160 --> 00:50:28,600
Speaker 3: Thank you, Thanks so much for having me