WEBVTT - Inside the courtroom for Erin Patterson's guilty verdict

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<v Speaker 1>Oh, it's always a bit of a heightened emotional experience

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<v Speaker 1>to be in the room after a very long trial

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<v Speaker 1>and a few days wait as the jury deliberates, and

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<v Speaker 1>that was certainly true of the room in more Well.

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<v Speaker 2>For the past ten weeks, Sarah Kreststein has been driving

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<v Speaker 2>to Warwell in regional Victoria to sit in the courtroom

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<v Speaker 2>as the triple murder trial of Aaron Patterson unfolded. Sarah's

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<v Speaker 2>an award winning writer and a lawyer with a PhD insentency.

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<v Speaker 2>She's spent hundreds of hours in courtrooms and so the

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<v Speaker 2>very specific feeling of waiting for a verdict is something

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<v Speaker 2>that she knows well. But despite all of that, she says,

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<v Speaker 2>waiting for the Jewelry to head down their verdict yesterday

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<v Speaker 2>was nerve wrecking.

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<v Speaker 1>My hands always shake, my heart races because you just

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<v Speaker 1>don't know how it's going to go. But you know

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<v Speaker 1>that whatever it is, it's going to both be, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>not enough for the people on one side and too

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<v Speaker 1>much for people on the other side. And it's just

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<v Speaker 1>the laws kind of attempt to bring certainty and conclusion

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<v Speaker 1>to emotional experience that really can't be tied up. That

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<v Speaker 1>neatly for the people who are directly involved.

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<v Speaker 2>Aaron Patterson has been found guilty of murdering her ex

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<v Speaker 2>husband's parents, Don and Gail Patterson, and his auntie Heather Wilkinson.

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<v Speaker 2>She's also been found guilty of a teptic to murder

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<v Speaker 2>Heather's husband Ian. I'm Ruby Jones and you're listening to

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<v Speaker 2>seven AM today doctor Sarah Christustine or the verdict, the

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<v Speaker 2>sentence to come and the story that will forever shape

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<v Speaker 2>the town of Morelwell, it's Tuesday, July eighth, So Sarah,

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<v Speaker 2>you have just left the courtroom where the verdict was

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<v Speaker 2>headed down in Aaron Patterson's trial. What was it like

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<v Speaker 2>in the room as that happened.

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<v Speaker 1>There was a long line of people waiting to get

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<v Speaker 1>in in terms of the journals and the interested members

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<v Speaker 1>of the public. People had been kind of perched outside

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<v Speaker 1>of courtroom for the last seven days, well six days.

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<v Speaker 1>The jury didn't sit on Sunday waiting for the email

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<v Speaker 1>to go out that the jury had reached a verdict.

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<v Speaker 1>So when that happened, everyone that could fit into the

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<v Speaker 1>room and take a seat did, and then the tips

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<v Speaker 1>kind of made a general announcement to everybody that regardless

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<v Speaker 1>of the nature of the decision, that everyone was to

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<v Speaker 1>keep respectful of the court and stay silent, and so

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<v Speaker 1>that kind of had a solemn effect because there's a

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<v Speaker 1>slight buzz of people with a lot of excess emotion

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<v Speaker 1>whenever this happens. And then the jury came in and

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<v Speaker 1>they were asked for their verdict, and yeah, we heard

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<v Speaker 1>that she was guilty of all the charges against her.

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<v Speaker 3>For the attempted murder child for pastor In Wilkinson. Aaron

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<v Speaker 3>Patterson is guilty for the charge of murder for Heather Wilkinson.

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<v Speaker 3>Aaron Patterson is guilty for the alleged murder of Goal

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<v Speaker 3>Patterson guilty. And finally, Brett, we're just waiting for that

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<v Speaker 3>last charge to come through for the alleged murder of

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<v Speaker 3>Donald Patterson. Aaron Patterson is guilty of murder.

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<v Speaker 2>What was Aaron Patterson's reaction as that verdict was read out.

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<v Speaker 1>I was sitting directly in front of her, so I

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<v Speaker 1>did look over a couple of times, and her face

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<v Speaker 1>was impassive. She just kind of said very still. She

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<v Speaker 1>was between two large male custody officers who were kind

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<v Speaker 1>of bookending her. She looked very serious, like she was concentrating,

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<v Speaker 1>but the word that occurred to me was kind of

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<v Speaker 1>unperturbed and obviously working quite hard to maintain a side

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<v Speaker 1>of you know, kind of detachment. But there wasn't anything

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<v Speaker 1>that it was possible to read in her expression.

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<v Speaker 2>And what about members of the Patterson family, So Erin's

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<v Speaker 2>ex husband's family, they've been attending court for much of

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<v Speaker 2>this trial, so were they there for the verdict?

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<v Speaker 1>So yeah, over the ten weeks the family has been

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<v Speaker 1>quite steadfastly present and that's what made it quite notable

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<v Speaker 1>that they weren't there for the verdict. They have a

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<v Speaker 1>spokesperson who has been dealing with the media, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>over the last few months, and she was in the room.

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<v Speaker 1>But Ian R. Wilkinson, who had attended after giving his evidence,

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<v Speaker 1>and you know, members of the Patterson family who had

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<v Speaker 1>been there all this time, were noticeably absent.

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<v Speaker 2>And so directly after that verdict, the judge thanked the

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<v Speaker 2>Jewry for the way that they have handled themselves throughout

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<v Speaker 2>this trial. So tell me about what has been required

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<v Speaker 2>of them.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, it's comprised of members from the surrounding community. We're

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<v Speaker 1>in more w Well in regional Victoria, and so you know,

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<v Speaker 1>These are people that were selected for the fact that

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<v Speaker 1>they come from the community in which the offending occurred,

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<v Speaker 1>and for their impartiality in relation to the facts of

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<v Speaker 1>the case. And they were quite attentive over ten weeks.

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<v Speaker 1>It's really technical evidence. You know, you hear it's a

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<v Speaker 1>triple murder trial and also an attempted murder trial. And

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<v Speaker 1>you know, if you're not familiar with the nuts and

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<v Speaker 1>bolts of how cases run forensically, that sounds like it

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<v Speaker 1>would be quite an exciting, emotionally charged thing to be

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<v Speaker 1>listening to. But the reality is a lot of the

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<v Speaker 1>evidence is quite technical in nature. You know, there's a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of stuff about how cell phone towers do and

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<v Speaker 1>don't work, how internet search functions do and don't work,

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<v Speaker 1>for hours and hours and days and days. So to

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<v Speaker 1>have a jury that's quite attentive through all of that

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<v Speaker 1>is noteworthy. And despite COVID or you know, colds or

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<v Speaker 1>you know whatever, over ten weeks they were there. So

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<v Speaker 1>they have been sequestered in their deliberations, which is quite unusual.

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<v Speaker 1>It means they're not allowed to go home. They've been

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<v Speaker 1>in a hotel all of this time. They can't read

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<v Speaker 1>the news, they don't have free access to their phones.

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<v Speaker 1>They have supervised calls to the people they need to

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<v Speaker 1>ring so that they don't hear or say anything connected

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<v Speaker 1>with the case. It's a big ask of people to

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<v Speaker 1>take ten weeks out of their life to do this.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a public service.

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<v Speaker 1>And Justice Biel recognized that and also kind of the

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<v Speaker 1>toll it's taken away from their daily life and all

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<v Speaker 1>their other responsibilities by giving them a fifteen year dispensation

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<v Speaker 1>from being called for jury service again. Now, if there's

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<v Speaker 1>anyone there that really loves the experience, they can go

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<v Speaker 1>and sit on another jury should they be called. But

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<v Speaker 1>it kind of says you've done your duty and now

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<v Speaker 1>you don't have to do this for another decade and

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<v Speaker 1>a half.

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<v Speaker 2>So we know the verdict, but what we don't know

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<v Speaker 2>is how the jury reached that verdict.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's right, and so it's quite frustrating for legal scholars.

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<v Speaker 1>A lot of our jury research about how the process

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<v Speaker 1>does and doesn't work. Any feedback about how it could

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<v Speaker 1>be improved comes from, i think largely from America. In Australia,

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<v Speaker 1>we're not allowed to know and these people can never

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<v Speaker 1>talk about what happened behind closed doors, how they reached

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<v Speaker 1>the decision, how many were for or against, all of

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<v Speaker 1>that remains unknown to protect the integrity of the process.

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<v Speaker 2>And so those people who are on the jeury, presumably

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<v Speaker 2>they now go back to their homes, go back to

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<v Speaker 2>their lives. But this case, it will continue to define

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<v Speaker 2>more well define the area for a long time. And

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<v Speaker 2>in a small place like this, I think we can

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<v Speaker 2>assume that there will be talk quite bit about the jewelry,

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<v Speaker 2>about the case and about how people's minds were made up.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's tricky, particularly in smaller communities to maintain anonivity,

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<v Speaker 1>but there's a lot of safeguards around the process that

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<v Speaker 1>kind of prevent them from speaking openly about it. So

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<v Speaker 1>one hopes they would be observed. But I think it,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, it does kind of now become part of

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<v Speaker 1>the lore of the region, which is I guess inevitable

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<v Speaker 1>when a whole town has been taken over by journals

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<v Speaker 1>and lawyers for ten weeks and people coming in from

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<v Speaker 1>kind of further afield to watch. It's not the end.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, today feels like a conclusion of sorts, but

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<v Speaker 1>everyone will be back in a few weeks to diorize

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<v Speaker 1>what needs to happen. For sentencing to occur, and then

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<v Speaker 1>of course she has the ability to appeal either the

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<v Speaker 1>verdict or the sentence, or both, depending on how her lawyers,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, come down on that.

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<v Speaker 2>After the break, When will Aaron Patterson be sentenced?

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<v Speaker 1>Sarah?

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<v Speaker 2>This trial it went on for much longer than most

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<v Speaker 2>people would have anticipated, and right up until the very end,

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<v Speaker 2>it wasn't really clear what witnesses the defense were going

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<v Speaker 2>to bring forward, if any, and it certainly wasn't clear

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<v Speaker 2>whether Aaron Pattison would give evidence. So when she did,

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<v Speaker 2>how did that change the trial?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, yeah, there's a lot of speculation. The defense, as

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<v Speaker 1>you say, is not required to lay out their strategy

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<v Speaker 1>or their plan before it's time. They're not obligated to

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<v Speaker 1>put their own case. They don't have to call any

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<v Speaker 1>witnesses at all, they don't have to do anything. They're

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<v Speaker 1>under no obligation to prove innocence. The Crown is required

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<v Speaker 1>to prove her guilty beyond reasonable doubt, and it's not

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<v Speaker 1>a positive obligation for the defense to do anything at all.

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<v Speaker 1>But obviously, to Colin Mandy, her counsel, it made more

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<v Speaker 1>sense to call Aaron to speak in her own defense

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<v Speaker 1>than to not, and she was on the stand for

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<v Speaker 1>a long time. It was tricky and confusing, which is

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<v Speaker 1>perhaps its own wisdom, because on the one hand, she's

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<v Speaker 1>both very articulately and she was calm for a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of her evidence, and on the other hand, it was

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<v Speaker 1>inevitable that we just heard again and again and again

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<v Speaker 1>how many lies she had told about how many things.

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<v Speaker 1>And there was a quite subtle and at times not

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<v Speaker 1>so subtle reactivity to nanat Rogers, who was the Crown prosecutor,

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<v Speaker 1>either aaron not understanding things or purporting not to understand things,

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<v Speaker 1>or having issues with the way certain questions were phrased.

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<v Speaker 1>It was hard to listen to that evidence being given

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<v Speaker 1>by erin learning just how many lies she had told

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<v Speaker 1>and come away thinking that her side of the story

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<v Speaker 1>made sense. And then there were just gaps in the

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<v Speaker 1>logic which also didn't make sense. But again, how a

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<v Speaker 1>jury is going to understand someone and how they're going

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<v Speaker 1>to understand that person's reliability or their veracity or credibility

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<v Speaker 1>is a tricky thing to try to mind read. But

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<v Speaker 1>they're really looking at someone's character in a lot of ways.

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<v Speaker 1>And yeah, that obviously didn't go in her favor.

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<v Speaker 2>And throughout the trial, Aaron Patterson has been held in

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<v Speaker 2>more well at the courthouse. What will happen to her now?

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<v Speaker 1>So, yeah, she will be taken back in a prison

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<v Speaker 1>van to I believe the women's prison in Melbourne. She

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<v Speaker 1>will wait there until the sentencing hearings begin. Sentencing won't

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<v Speaker 1>happen immediately. Both sides need time to get a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of different reports, like psychological reports and other forms of information.

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<v Speaker 1>And once that's all collected and the sentencing hearing will

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<v Speaker 1>be schedules and then both parties have the chance to

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<v Speaker 1>make submissions. They have different rules of evidence that apply

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<v Speaker 1>to sentencing hearings, so things don't have to be proven

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<v Speaker 1>beyond reasonable doubt. Obviously, they want to make sure that

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<v Speaker 1>everything is as solid as possible. So they'll go off

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<v Speaker 1>and do that over the next weeks or months, and

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<v Speaker 1>she will be sentenced, I'm shore before the end of

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<v Speaker 1>the year.

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<v Speaker 2>And so when it comes to the sentencing, what kind

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<v Speaker 2>of range should we be expecting because a triple murder

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<v Speaker 2>as well as attempted murder, that kind of verdict is

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<v Speaker 2>pretty rare.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so you're looking at life as the maximum. But again,

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<v Speaker 1>a whole number of considerations go into that. They'll be

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<v Speaker 1>looking at things like levels of remorse or assistance to

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<v Speaker 1>the authority, the fact that the victims here were vulnerable

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<v Speaker 1>in that they were elderly, and also that trust was breached.

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<v Speaker 1>They'll be looking at whether she had a prior history

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<v Speaker 1>of criminality, So they'll be weighing up all of the

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<v Speaker 1>factors and aggravation, and then in mitigation, they'll be looking

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<v Speaker 1>at examples of similar instances of offending. And I don't

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<v Speaker 1>think they have anything of this nature, which is part

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<v Speaker 1>of what makes a case so compelling is it's uniqueness

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<v Speaker 1>in a lot of ways. But they'll be looking at

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<v Speaker 1>other examples of murder to try to find out what

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<v Speaker 1>the range is for a case like this.

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<v Speaker 2>Sarah, thank you so much for your time.

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<v Speaker 1>Now look, thank you for having me.

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<v Speaker 2>Also in the news today, the Northern Territory Coroner Elizabeth

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<v Speaker 2>Armitage has delivered her findings in a long running inquest

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<v Speaker 2>into the fatal shooting of nineteen year old Kumnji Walker

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<v Speaker 2>during an arrest in Yundamu in twenty nineteen. Judge Armitage

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<v Speaker 2>found former Constable Zachary Rolf, who fired the fatal shots,

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<v Speaker 2>was racist and that she could not exclude the possibility

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<v Speaker 2>that those attitudes were a contributing cause of Kumanjai's death.

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<v Speaker 2>Her report contains thirty two recommendations, including that anti police

0:13:55.280 --> 0:13:59.040
<v Speaker 2>engaged directly with the Yundubu leadership groups to develop mutual

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<v Speaker 2>respect agreements, including when it would be appropriate for police

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<v Speaker 2>not to carry firearms in the community. I'll have a

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<v Speaker 2>full interview on that story tomorrow. On seventeen and nine,

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<v Speaker 2>newspapers have reported that New South Wales police will drop

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<v Speaker 2>some of the charges laid against former Green's candidate had

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<v Speaker 2>A Thomas, after a review found officers incorrectly sought to

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<v Speaker 2>use extraordinary emergency powers introduced to quell major riots. Thomas,

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<v Speaker 2>who suffered a serious eye injury after police broke up

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<v Speaker 2>an anti Israel protest, will face a more standard charge

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<v Speaker 2>of failing to comply with a move on direction, along

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<v Speaker 2>with the existing charge of hindering police. I'm Ruby Jones,

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<v Speaker 2>See you tomorrow.