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Speaker 1: This podcast was recorded on the land of the Gadigel

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Speaker 1: people of the Eura Nation. Hello and welcome to the

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Speaker 1: Real Story with Joe hildemand Superman. Is going to be

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Speaker 1: absolutely awesome. Just wanted to say that. We also got

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Speaker 1: a massive show coming up for you. We're going to

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Speaker 1: be speaking to a defense guru. This guy knows everything

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Speaker 1: about everything. He's going to tell us what's really going

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Speaker 1: on with Donald Trump and Anthony Albanezia. They really know Speake's,

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Speaker 1: what's going on with Australia's relationship with the US, what's

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Speaker 1: really going to happen between Israel and Palestine and Iran.

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Speaker 1: Amazing interview. You won't want to miss that, and it's

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Speaker 1: just incredible. We're going to give you a spoiler alert.

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Speaker 1: We've just delivered peace in the Middle East again. Plus

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Speaker 1: what's really going on with Elbow and that speech? While

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Speaker 1: I was in the room for that speech that everyone's

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Speaker 1: talking about and it's not quite what everyone else is

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Speaker 1: saying it is. I've also got proof positive that the

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Speaker 1: Glastonbury Rockers, the rockers, Bob Villain, I've got proof that

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Speaker 1: they don't actually give a rats about Palestine for all

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Speaker 1: their big talk. I'm going to actually prove it to

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Speaker 1: you live here on air. And Superman is going to

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Speaker 1: be awesome. Don't forget that. All that more coming up,

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Speaker 1: So first up this week, Superman is going to be awesome,

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Speaker 1: and Albow is.

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Speaker 2: Also pretty awesome.

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Speaker 1: He delivered a speech on Saturday that got everybody absolutely

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Speaker 1: frothing at the mouth that you would think that Australia

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Speaker 1: had just sort of seceded from the rest of the

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Speaker 1: Western world, just thrown the Ansers Treaty into the bin,

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Speaker 1: set fire to Orcus, and become a revolutionary republic like

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Speaker 1: North Korea. I was actually in the room when Albo

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Speaker 1: delivered the speech. I was invited by the people who

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Speaker 1: invited him to give the speech. So the head of

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Speaker 1: the John Curtin Research Center, it was a John Curtin

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Speaker 1: a race oratory. It was at the eightieth anniversar with

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Speaker 1: John Curtain's death. This is, of course, Labor's probably most

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Speaker 1: celebrated prime minister. This is the guy who literally saved Australia.

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Speaker 1: He was the prime minister in World War Two and

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Speaker 1: when Singapore fell and the British retreated from the Southeast

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Speaker 1: Asia region and ran back with their hands between their

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Speaker 1: legs because they've been absolutely routed and the Japanese were

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Speaker 1: moving through Southeast Asia, Malaysia, Burma, Indonesia, Papua New Guinea,

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Speaker 1: you name it. It was John Curtin who said, right,

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Speaker 1: we are defending Australia and if the UK is not

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Speaker 1: going to help us do it, we are turning to

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Speaker 1: the US. And he actually went over to the gave

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Speaker 1: speeches to the US and he says, I am here

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Speaker 1: asking you to help us.

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Speaker 2: We are turning to you.

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Speaker 1: We did it publicly as well as of course privately,

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Speaker 1: and a shameless almost a literally shameless fashion. He did

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Speaker 1: it in a proud Australian, unapologetic way. And that was

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Speaker 1: what Anthony Albanezi was picking up on in the speech

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Speaker 1: that he gave. I was sitting there literally right next

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Speaker 1: to the head of the John Curtin Research Center, a

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Speaker 1: bloke called Nick diron Firth. Really sound, guys, been on

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Speaker 1: this podcast, as you know. He's on the right of

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Speaker 1: the Labor Party, which puts him in the sort of

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Speaker 1: sensible center of mainstream politics. He's a pro Israel Jewish

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Speaker 1: Australian himself. And this is the organization that this is

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Speaker 1: very much a labor right think tank this is a sensible, thoughtful, intelligence,

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Speaker 1: serious organization. And these are the guys who invited Albo

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Speaker 1: to speak in Sydney on Saturday night. And the one

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Speaker 1: thing that Albo did do, however, which was very deliberate,

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Speaker 1: was on top of saying how great John Curtain was

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Speaker 1: and everything he'd done and how he'd pivot from the

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Speaker 1: UK to the US, Albo made a point of saying

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Speaker 1: that Curtin wasn't actually just slavish to the US, that

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Speaker 1: he was much more than that. Now I'll take you

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Speaker 1: through how he did that very shortly. But this of

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Speaker 1: course led to people jumping up and down and saying, ah,

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Speaker 1: Albo's trying to move Australia away from the US. He's

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Speaker 1: trying to say we don't need the US anymore. It's

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Speaker 1: all over now, China's going to invade US and no

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Speaker 1: one's going to help us. It's armageddon and he can't

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Speaker 1: even get a meeting with Donald Trump. And we'll unpack

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Speaker 1: all that with our special guests later on, but here's

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Speaker 1: the first thing there will of course, the other people say,

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Speaker 1: Albo said nothing of the sort, What are you talking about?

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Speaker 1: He never said that, And you've got to sort of

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Speaker 1: pull apart the speech and interpret it in a really

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Speaker 1: specific way to extract that message from it. And often

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Speaker 1: when you are giving speeches like this, or you're talking

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Speaker 1: about diplomatic international relationships, it's so opaque and op bleak

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Speaker 1: and kind of sideways the language. And they explicitly train

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Speaker 1: diplomats to speak this way. You speak in such a

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Speaker 1: way that it is incredibly difficult for anyone who doesn't

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Speaker 1: speak diplomat ease to actually pin down what you are saying.

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Speaker 1: But people who do speak diplomat ease, and you know,

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Speaker 1: do know where all the various you know, where the

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Speaker 1: exact sort of pinpoint location of the different countries' positions

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Speaker 1: are can detect any slight shift in tone or any

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Speaker 1: slight and sometimes it can just be a word or

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Speaker 1: you know, it's ever so slight, and it's and it's

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Speaker 1: always kind of a skance. It's never a direct statement.

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Speaker 1: It's always a bit of a sort of nudge nudge,

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Speaker 1: wink wink. And there was a bit of nudge nudge,

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Speaker 1: wink wink in Elbow's speech. And this is what it

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Speaker 1: looked like. This is where it came. And again you'll

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Speaker 1: be this is this is how kind of subtle it is,

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Speaker 1: but how significant it is because of course eager eyed

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Speaker 1: people who noticed it are the ones sort of blowing

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Speaker 1: up and quite frankly overreacting a bit. But they were

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Speaker 1: right to notice it. And that is This is the

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Speaker 1: example that Elbow gave of John Curtin standing up to

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Speaker 1: the Americans, fiercely standing up to the Americans for Australia's interest.

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Speaker 1: Now we know that he stood up to Churchill and

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Speaker 1: the UK. We know that after the fall of Singapore,

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Speaker 1: which completely blindsided Churchill and the British, that this was

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Speaker 1: a catastrophe, and Churchill basically said, right, we're out of here.

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Speaker 2: We're just going to fight this war in Europe. And

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Speaker 2: they wanted.

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Speaker 1: Certain exceptions that British did stuff in Malaya and Burma

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Speaker 1: blah blah blah, but anyway, but they wanted Australian troops

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Speaker 1: in Burma. They wanted to send now Miama, they wanted

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Speaker 1: Australian troops to be sent to Burma, and Curtain basically

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Speaker 1: said that no way, we need every single Australian we

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Speaker 1: have defending Australia. And that was one hundred percent the

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Speaker 1: right core. And there's debate about how serious there was

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Speaker 1: of any an intention on the part of the Japanese

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Speaker 1: to actually invade Australia. But they did bomb Darwin, and

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Speaker 1: they did have subs in Sydney Harbor, and so there

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Speaker 1: is every reason to suggest that if Kurtin hadn't done

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Speaker 1: what he did, Australia would at the very least been

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Speaker 1: vulnerable to Japanese invasion and potentially a vassal state of

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Speaker 1: the Japanese Empire in Southeast Asia, and at the very

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Speaker 1: worst subject and all that invasion. So Curtain makes the

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Speaker 1: right call. He stands up to Church says no, we

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Speaker 1: are not sending Australian troops to Burma to protect your

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Speaker 1: colonial interest there, and Albo goes out of his way

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Speaker 1: to mention in his speech that the US also agreed

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Speaker 1: with the UK that maybe Australia should send some troops

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Speaker 1: to Burma. Now, I'm pretty sure that the US probably

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Speaker 1: didn't give a rat about what happened to British British

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Speaker 1: qualities in Southeast Asia, except in so far as it

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Speaker 1: affected US interests. And let's not forget that the US

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Speaker 1: was a republic. Even though America does unofficially have an empire,

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Speaker 1: they're in theory they're opposed to empire, that they don't

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Speaker 1: like the idea of it.

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Speaker 2: They themselves were founded.

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Speaker 1: By rising up and throwing off the yoke of empire,

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Speaker 1: and so I think the conversation went a lot like

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Speaker 1: Churchill going, we.

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Speaker 2: Have to stay with Oma.

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Speaker 1: I really need to empire by get your troops to Burma,

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Speaker 1: don't you agree? FDR and Franklin Delano Roosevelt. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: all right, yeah, sure, whatever you say. Yeah cool. But

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Speaker 1: Albo made the point that the US agreed that even

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Speaker 1: as the US was just entering the war because the

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Speaker 1: Japanese invaded bom Pearl Harbor, even as the US was

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Speaker 1: starting to deploy US troops in and around Australia over sexed, overpaid,

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Speaker 1: and over here, as they were famously described, that the

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Speaker 1: US was also all in on sending Australian troops to Burma,

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Speaker 1: which it probably was if it was either that or

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Speaker 1: American troops.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, no, I don't, Yes, send the Australians. None US.

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Speaker 1: But I think it's fair to say this was not

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Speaker 1: a cornerstone of the United States World War II geopolitical

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Speaker 1: and military strategy.

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Speaker 2: But Albo just added it in there. He added it

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Speaker 2: in there just to make.

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Speaker 1: The point that while Australia was standing up to the

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Speaker 1: UK and saying no, it was also almost by default,

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Speaker 1: because the US just happened to in passing agree with

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Speaker 1: the UK, it was also standing up to the US.

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Speaker 1: And so we did actually put that little Easter egg

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Speaker 1: in there. And I think that was just a little

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Speaker 1: point to say, you know, you know what, We're not

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Speaker 1: just going to slavishly do whatever either of you guys

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Speaker 1: tell us to. We're gonna we're gonna stick up for

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Speaker 1: you know, a little loss the Australia, you know, little

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Speaker 1: LOSSI Butler, Now, does that mean that Australia is actually

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Speaker 1: going to you know, reject or compromise or damage the

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Speaker 1: US alliance? Absolutely no way, because of course, in their

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Speaker 1: context of everything that Elbow's talking about, the only reason

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Speaker 1: why all of this happened, the only reason why Curtain's

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Speaker 1: decision was so incredibly important, is because the US did

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Speaker 1: come to our aid. They did come and save us,

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Speaker 1: they did come and help us out. Australian troops did

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Speaker 1: incredibly well for the number that we had, but just mathematically,

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Speaker 1: it would have been completely impossible for US to mount

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Speaker 1: any kind of defense against the full Japanese Imperial Force.

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Speaker 1: It needed US military numbers, needed US military technology and material,

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Speaker 1: needed the ships and the planes, and it was the

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Speaker 1: US and place like the Battle of the Coral Sea.

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Speaker 1: You know who stopped us, Who stopped that Japanese invasion force?

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Speaker 1: You know, the Kokoda track of course, famously stopped them

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Speaker 1: from just being right there on our doorsteps. So even

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Speaker 1: though Albow just sort of snuck that in as a

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Speaker 1: little a little nipple cripple the Donald, maybe it was

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Speaker 1: incredibly subtle and by no means anything, it was just

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Speaker 1: a little bit of a you know, just remember, you know,

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Speaker 1: we're all for Australia, you know, and that's good. We

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Speaker 1: should be patriotic and we should be strong. But the

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Speaker 1: idea that we don't actually need the US, or we're

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Speaker 1: just junking that alliance, as some people have said, that

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Speaker 1: will never ever happen, because it can never ever happen. Look,

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Speaker 1: I also want to talk about the anti Semitic attacks

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Speaker 1: in Melbourne over the weekend. We had a Jewish synagogue,

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Speaker 1: Well there aren't really many other types of synagogue fire bombed.

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Speaker 1: Someone's been arrested and taken into custody, so I guess

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Speaker 1: it's allegedly firebombed now and of course we had these

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Speaker 1: rampaging protesters that ran through an Israeli restaurant.

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Speaker 2: I think they take it a second one as well,

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Speaker 2: chanting death, death to the IDF.

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Speaker 1: He also had protesters outside Chris Mins's office last week

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Speaker 1: chanting the Premier of New South Wales of course, chanting death,

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Speaker 1: death to the IVF, to the IVF, IF fantastic. Why

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Speaker 1: wouldn't you want to into in vitro fertilization, death, death

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Speaker 1: to the IDF. And this of course takes us back

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Speaker 1: to you last week's massive story, which was this new

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Speaker 1: chant of death death to the IVF, which was effectively launched,

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Speaker 1: and it really was launched like a product launch, like

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Speaker 1: a marketing campaign by a punk duo called Bob Villain

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Speaker 1: at the Glastonbury Music Festival, which the organizers have since

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Speaker 1: said was absolutely outrageous and they completely disabused them of it.

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Speaker 1: But of course they could have known better, and they

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Speaker 1: should have known better, and if they had actually, you know,

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Speaker 1: got their heads out of their proverbial and looked around,

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Speaker 1: they would have known better. And in the case of

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Speaker 1: another act, that absolutely did because one of their members

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Speaker 1: was being charged with terrorism related offenses before he even

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Speaker 1: performed anyway. But let's go back to Bob so when

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Speaker 1: and everyone's you know, there's been god knows how many

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Speaker 1: column inch's written about this. But as we all know,

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Speaker 1: one of the pair of this due Bob Villain, who

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Speaker 1: is called Bobby Villain, I know, just whatever. He actually

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Speaker 1: introduces this chant deliberately as a kind of software update.

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Speaker 1: He actually says before the before he says, oh, you know,

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Speaker 1: everyone's chanting free free Palestine. He goes, yeah, yeah, all right,

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Speaker 1: that's fine, but have you heard this one? Have you

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Speaker 1: heard the new one? So he's literally he's literally like

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Speaker 1: the cool kid going, hey, have you got the latest gear?

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Speaker 1: Have you seen this? Ah, you know, you've seen Beyonce's

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Speaker 1: new album just dropped. It's literally like that. So he says,

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Speaker 1: this is the new slogan right death death to the IVF,

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Speaker 1: which it's fair to say is a bit more violent

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Speaker 1: and murder and killing related than free free Palestine. That's

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Speaker 1: all well and good. Who doesn't want Palestine to be free?

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Speaker 1: But actually advocating the killing of people, that's kind of

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Speaker 1: a bit. It's not exactly Woodstock vibes. It's not exactly, peace,

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Speaker 1: love and mung beans. Anyway, we've gone all over that before.

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Speaker 1: But the point being is this is something that was

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Speaker 1: deliberately introduced to be a craze. This is a guy who,

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Speaker 1: when he says it, says, hey, have you heard this

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Speaker 1: new thing? So it doesn't just start doing it. He's

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Speaker 1: deliberately introducing it in a way to make it go viral,

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Speaker 1: and that's what happened.

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Speaker 2: On the other side of the world. A week later, you've.

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Speaker 1: Got thugs wearing masks because they're too gutless to be

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Speaker 1: identified and take accountability for what they've done. You know,

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Speaker 1: they apparently care so much about Palestine, but was afraid

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Speaker 1: to put their face to it.

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Speaker 2: But these people are now.

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Speaker 1: Chanting this as they're charging through restaurants, smashing things up,

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Speaker 1: terrifying families who are out out to dinner, whatever, whatever,

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Speaker 1: And that is I suppose proof in itself of what

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Speaker 1: this was intended to do. And this is nothing to

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Speaker 1: do with people of palis And we're going to talk

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Speaker 1: about that issue and where it's at and where it's

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Speaker 1: going seriously, and look at you know, what solutions are

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Speaker 1: available with my guest this week, people who actually have

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Speaker 1: experience in this who know about it, who actually do

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Speaker 1: care about outcomes, instead of just showing how much they

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Speaker 1: you know, what humanitarians they are, What lovely, caring, virtuous

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Speaker 1: people they are because they born to kill Israeli soldiers, that's.

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Speaker 3: How much they care.

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Speaker 1: But of course these people don't care about Palestine at all.

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Speaker 1: It's purely performative. It is purely about them showing how

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Speaker 1: morally pure or morally better they are than everybody else,

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Speaker 1: because they're even more impassion, they're even more extreme, and

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Speaker 1: they're moral virtue to the point where they're so morally.

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Speaker 2: Virtuous they'd kill for it.

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Speaker 1: It's a bit like John Sena and Peacemaker, another great

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Speaker 1: DC outing Superman is going to be awesome, by the way.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if I mentioned that earlier, but John

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Speaker 1: Sena is this says, I care about peace so much.

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Speaker 1: I love peace, and I love peace, and I care

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Speaker 1: about it so much. I don't care how many men,

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Speaker 1: women and children I have to kill to get it.

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Speaker 1: That's what these people are saying. They care about peace

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Speaker 1: so much, care about Palistan they don't care about But

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Speaker 1: of course this is the other catch because in another

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Speaker 1: video you can hear the singing from Bobby Villain, bragging

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Speaker 1: about and again, so this is not just this is

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Speaker 1: not just rhetorical. He brags about how much he supports violence.

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Speaker 1: He says, there's all these you know, another music festival

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Speaker 1: that says, there's all these you know, pacifist punks out there.

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Speaker 1: He actually says that, in a drog edory way, there's

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Speaker 1: all these pacifist punks out there. We're not that, he says.

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Speaker 1: He says, where violent punks, because violence is the only

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Speaker 1: language that these people understand.

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Speaker 2: This is exactly what he says.

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Speaker 1: So he brags about being violent and brags about having

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Speaker 1: to use violence against Israel.

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Speaker 2: Or the idea.

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Speaker 1: But he's not doing it, is he He's just talking

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Speaker 1: about it, And he's too stupid to realize how obviously

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Speaker 1: shambolic and transparently empty those words are. He's not going

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Speaker 1: out and joining her mass. He's saying how much he

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Speaker 1: supports other people committing violence, other people being subjected to violence,

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Speaker 1: And it is it is, It is just staggering that

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Speaker 1: the hypocrisy is just laid bare out there for all

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Speaker 1: to see. This is a guy saying, you know, we're violent.

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Speaker 1: He actually says he doesn't even say he supports, says,

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Speaker 1: we're violent punks. So go and do it, buddy, It

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Speaker 1: is so tough. Get on a plane, go to Gaza,

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Speaker 1: join what's left of her mass. You love the violence

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Speaker 1: so much, go and do it. Because he thinks that

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Speaker 1: that's the only way that Palestine can be freed, that's

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Speaker 1: the only way that the people of Palestine can be liberated.

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Speaker 1: This is what he says. He says the only but

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Speaker 1: he's not doing it, by his own admission, he's not

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Speaker 1: doing the one thing that he says needs to be

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Speaker 1: done to achieve the cause that he says he is

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Speaker 1: one hundred percent committed to. It is absolute, one hundred

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Speaker 1: percent bullshit. It is one hundred percent lies, and it

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Speaker 1: is being done in full view and not only to

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Speaker 1: all the tens of thousands of drones who are channing

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Speaker 1: along with this numpty not get it. He doesn't even

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Speaker 1: get it himself. And yet it is all right there

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Speaker 1: in front of us. Well, the big story, obviously of

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Speaker 1: the week and probably the year, is will he or

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Speaker 1: won't he will Australian Prime Minister Anthony Albanese get a

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Speaker 1: meeting with the US President Donald J. Trump, though meant

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Speaker 1: to have one at the G seven. Unfortunately World War

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Speaker 1: three broke out. Donald Trump had to run off and

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Speaker 1: stop World War three, and we have been able to

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Speaker 1: get a meeting with the Big guy since. So what

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Speaker 1: is going on with Australia's strategic and defense relationship with

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Speaker 1: the US. What is going on with Australia's own defense policy,

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Speaker 1: because of course, increasing defense spending is the one kind

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Speaker 1: of craw that this meeting is stuck in. And what

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Speaker 1: is going on in the Middle East? Are we really

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Speaker 1: looking at a lasting cease fire? A lasting dare I

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Speaker 1: say it?

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Speaker 2: Peace?

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Speaker 1: Well, one man with rather unique insight into all of

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Speaker 1: these things is my guest this week. He is a

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Speaker 1: former defense advisor to the Labor Party when it was

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Speaker 1: led by former Defense Minister Kim Beasley. He is a cop,

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Speaker 1: a former soldier. He's an expert in international lawys a

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Speaker 1: war crimes investigator.

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Speaker 2: He lectures in these matters.

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Speaker 1: He is an legal advisor to various secret, mysterious organizations

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Speaker 1: in Israel, as well as teaching here in Australia. And

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Speaker 1: most importantly, he joins me now, Glenn Colem Its welcome

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Speaker 1: to the real story.

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Speaker 2: How are you good?

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Speaker 3: Thanks mate, good to see you again.

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Speaker 1: Great to see you again as well. You are, of

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Speaker 1: course in your most recent incarnation. On top of all that,

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Speaker 1: you were a candidate for the Jackie Lamby Network and

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Speaker 1: you're the defense advisor for that.

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Speaker 2: So some are I suppose, who.

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Speaker 1: Is almost uniquely placed, I think to provide a kind

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Speaker 1: of independent perspective on what is going on here.

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Speaker 2: So my first question is what is going on here?

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Speaker 3: You know something?

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Speaker 4: The uproar about Elbow and Trump, I think it's for

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Speaker 4: a long time. The relationship has survived administrations and Australian

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Speaker 4: governments and it will survive this one.

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Speaker 3: That's the reality.

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Speaker 4: I think there's a lot of carry on, but it's symbiotic.

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Speaker 4: We need each other and the current strategic circumstances haven't

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Speaker 4: changed that relationships for us.

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Speaker 2: On Fantastic, well, that's all we have time for. Thank you.

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Speaker 1: Every week we deliver world peace on this podcast. It's

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Speaker 1: amazing how frequently that is great to add and it's

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Speaker 1: great to hear it. Firstly because it means that you know,

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Speaker 1: world peace and we're not going to get invaded by

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Speaker 1: China and World War three is not going to come in.

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Speaker 2: In golf it.

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Speaker 4: I didn't say that, but that's right about that actually

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Speaker 4: will probably still have it.

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Speaker 1: It's also great to left, because that's what I've been

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Speaker 1: saying as well. So it's good today that I'm not

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Speaker 1: entirely mad. But so the meeting that fell through at

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Speaker 1: the G seven, it seems to me that's not really

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump going sorry, I'm washing my hair. That night

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Speaker 1: that meeting was scheduled, it was going to go ahead.

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Speaker 1: He had to go off and bomb ran to prevent

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Speaker 1: World War three. Seems like a pretty legit excuse. Why

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Speaker 1: do you think though, there seems to have been such

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Speaker 1: a struggle to reschedule the meeting, and there've been reports that,

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Speaker 1: you know, Team Australia only found out about the cancelations

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Speaker 1: sort of third hand or once Trump had already left.

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Speaker 1: There wasn't the kind of you know, complimentary phone call

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Speaker 1: or whatever. Do you think that relations between Albanezi and

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Speaker 1: Trump are as bad as is being reported.

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Speaker 4: Look, I think the more important relationships here are but

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Speaker 4: are the people who are out there, the operators out

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Speaker 4: there in the world.

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Speaker 3: The senior military, the senior bureaucrats.

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Speaker 4: Trump and Albanie having a meeting, you know, that's that's

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Speaker 4: well and good, But we know that these relationships are

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Speaker 4: being are being maintained and bolstered at the real world level,

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Speaker 4: at the at the operational level, so and the strategic level.

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Speaker 4: So look, really, eventually he'll see Albanizy, you will see

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Speaker 4: Trump and they all Trump, Mike, give Albanesi a hearing.

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Speaker 3: But regardless, the wheels are still moving.

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Speaker 2: We'll have scaffolding around each leaders. The two governments are.

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Speaker 1: Still talking to each even if their respective leaders aren't

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Speaker 1: in the same room.

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Speaker 4: And we saw that the previous labor governments. We've seen

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Speaker 4: it forever. The staff could, as you say, is still there.

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Speaker 1: And obviously no meeting takes place until the defense leadership

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Speaker 1: and the diplomatic leadership have already sort of orchestrated a result.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's right, say, right.

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Speaker 1: We're going to meet and you're going to agree to this,

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Speaker 1: You're going to agree to that, and then we're going

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Speaker 1: to walk out. At the end, there'll be a joint coming, okay,

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Speaker 1: and I'm imagining it, we'll say something like Australia is

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Speaker 1: going to you.

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Speaker 2: Know, completely regardless of America's demands.

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Speaker 1: It turns out we were planning to increase our defense

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Speaker 1: spending all along with this. We say we're going to resist,

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Speaker 1: and Donald Trum will come out and say, of course

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Speaker 1: UCUS is still on the table. What you know, what

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Speaker 1: made you think it was, And of course we're going

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Speaker 1: ahead with it.

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Speaker 2: That's right.

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Speaker 4: That the Oval Office is theater. It's theater, and as

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Speaker 4: we thought, it was very good theater with Zelensky. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 4: but it's the system works behind the scenes. And look,

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Speaker 4: they'll make political announcements both ways. And we've seen this

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Speaker 4: in the past too, you know, labor and opposition. When

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Speaker 4: I was Defense advisor, we had some issues with the

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Speaker 4: US back then, and in fact, some US, the US

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Speaker 4: embassy stuff took me out to lunch once and said.

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Speaker 3: Why do you guys not like us? And I said, said,

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Speaker 3: we love you.

433
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:45,120
Speaker 2: We thought that you didn't like us.

434
00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:46,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right.

435
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:48,879
Speaker 1: That's right. So yeah, that's right. Oh that's good. So

436
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:51,240
Speaker 1: that obviously we can all sleep well in our beds tonight.

437
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:53,760
Speaker 1: One thing that it has raised, though, it has kind

438
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:57,240
Speaker 1: of pulled back the rug on what is happening domestically

439
00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:01,199
Speaker 1: with Australia's defense policy. And some of it is without

440
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:03,760
Speaker 1: being alarmist, some of it is nonetheless pretty alarming. We

441
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:07,840
Speaker 1: know that there's this ridiculous long tail on when we

442
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:10,680
Speaker 1: get our new submarines, the colins class ones are sort

443
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:13,639
Speaker 1: of on their last legs, sort of sputtering around, you know,

444
00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:16,320
Speaker 1: with only you know, one or two even in service,

445
00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:19,920
Speaker 1: even our on water ships, there's only one or two

446
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:21,879
Speaker 1: actually out there in active service.

447
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:23,720
Speaker 2: These are reports that I'm reading. I'm like, that can't

448
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:25,640
Speaker 2: be right, but it seems it's right.

449
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:26,280
Speaker 3: It is right.

450
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:28,760
Speaker 4: Look, the Defense Strategic Review, the ds I was good.

451
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:30,879
Speaker 4: That was a good first move, and then implementing this

452
00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:33,960
Speaker 4: national strategy was a good move. But follow up move

453
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:36,679
Speaker 4: to the DSR, you have to implement this stuff. You

454
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:39,960
Speaker 4: can have all this wonderful stuff on paper, and you

455
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:41,879
Speaker 4: get through all the documents, all the colored pictures and

456
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:44,119
Speaker 4: everything else is like thirty pages to each or something rather,

457
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:45,960
Speaker 4: so that's not as enormous as people think.

458
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:48,359
Speaker 3: You have to distill that down to the real world

459
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:50,240
Speaker 3: and implement that stuff. And that's the problem.

460
00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:53,439
Speaker 4: We're not implementing this stuff in a timely fashion because

461
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:56,440
Speaker 4: the wheels and defense move slowly. Risk aversion that the

462
00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:59,960
Speaker 4: risk culture is terrible, and they put spreaking in a

463
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:03,800
Speaker 4: innovation all through these documents, but we don't innovate in defense.

464
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:06,840
Speaker 1: So the risk aversion, the fear of doing something wrong,

465
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:08,919
Speaker 1: is actually paralyzing.

466
00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:10,840
Speaker 2: They end up not doing anything at.

467
00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:13,480
Speaker 4: All, absolutely or decision paralysis, absolutely right, and because I

468
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:16,320
Speaker 4: can see why, because every major project we've had now

469
00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:18,399
Speaker 4: for as long as I can remember, has been blown

470
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:20,520
Speaker 4: out in time, blown out and costs. Some have fallen over,

471
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:23,760
Speaker 4: some never got operational, they were mouthfuled before they were operational.

472
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:26,600
Speaker 4: So the bureaucrats are worried about their jobs and their

473
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:28,359
Speaker 4: ACS and AM or whatever else they get as part

474
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:29,440
Speaker 4: of their salary package.

475
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:31,600
Speaker 3: So the risk a version is just inherent.

476
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:34,040
Speaker 4: But we have to overcome that risk version to be

477
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:37,360
Speaker 4: able to properly be innovative as the government is pushing.

478
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:39,160
Speaker 1: Because if you're so scared of not doing anything wrong,

479
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 1: we end up in a position where you just don't

480
00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:44,200
Speaker 1: do anything at all, absolutely right, absolutely, And they're right

481
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:47,399
Speaker 1: to be worried about their jobs, because Richard Miles is

482
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:50,000
Speaker 1: looking like he's going like he's had it up to

483
00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:53,000
Speaker 1: the wazoo, had it up to puss his bow, if

484
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:56,520
Speaker 1: you will, and it's going to take the acts to

485
00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 1: a bunch of top top brass or top bureaucrats because

486
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:02,280
Speaker 1: of because of this paralysis, because she's been a lot

487
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:05,680
Speaker 1: of white papers being passed around and nothing actually being done.

488
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:07,480
Speaker 4: I've said for a long time, you can't throw a

489
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:09,840
Speaker 4: stone in Canberra without hitting a general, and it's the

490
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:13,080
Speaker 4: same without hitting a Defense bureaucrat, and quite frankly the secretary.

491
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:14,480
Speaker 4: A lot of these failings, he's been there for a

492
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:17,600
Speaker 4: long time, Moriarty. A lot of these big project failings

493
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:20,960
Speaker 4: and big failings moreover have been on his watch. They

494
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:23,640
Speaker 4: can't abrogate the responsibility. They're on the big bucks. They're

495
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:27,800
Speaker 4: getting their honors and awards for doing their job, often poorly. Colum,

496
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:30,280
Speaker 4: get back to bare bones and put that put that

497
00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:32,760
Speaker 4: money into getting more boots on the ground, more.

498
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:35,560
Speaker 3: Troops and capability, which was more needed.

499
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:39,960
Speaker 2: I've actually taken a far beat from me to question

500
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:43,320
Speaker 2: your expertise. But like I've heard actual good things about

501
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 2: Greg Moriarty.

502
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:47,680
Speaker 1: I've heard he came over from defat it was very

503
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:51,879
Speaker 1: obviously top dog there, came over to Defense only a

504
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:55,880
Speaker 1: few years ago. And is he sort of I get

505
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:58,000
Speaker 1: the sense that he is a man who's actually trying

506
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:00,479
Speaker 1: to get things done, but is himself sort of faced

507
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:04,760
Speaker 1: with this kind of you know, concrete sort of set

508
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:08,480
Speaker 1: of bureaucracy beneath him, through which it's very hard to

509
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:09,920
Speaker 1: kind of chisel.

510
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:11,160
Speaker 2: It's a pneumatic drill.

511
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:13,120
Speaker 4: If you're like, look, i've watched him an estimates. I'm

512
00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 4: a bit of an estimates of parliament parliament nerd. I'm

513
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:18,960
Speaker 4: sure you are, Joe, but I've watched him an estimates,

514
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:21,120
Speaker 4: so I think he really has to be more responsive. Yes,

515
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:23,800
Speaker 4: he is trying to chip through this, this impossible layer

516
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:25,080
Speaker 4: of risk aversion.

517
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:27,720
Speaker 3: But it happened in Veterans Affairs they had they had a.

518
00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:31,600
Speaker 4: Similar concrete barrier and Liz Cossom, the former secretary, chip

519
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:33,679
Speaker 4: manage chip through that in a pretty big way, and

520
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:35,280
Speaker 4: the current secretary is doing the same thing.

521
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:36,280
Speaker 3: I think there needs to be.

522
00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:39,200
Speaker 2: Delayed payments to veterans that were you're dressed in the

523
00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:39,800
Speaker 2: last budget.

524
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:42,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. But a lot of the

525
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:43,840
Speaker 3: big a lot of the biggest, the bigger.

526
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:46,080
Speaker 4: Ticket items were addressed eventually, right, they manage to chip

527
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:49,520
Speaker 4: through that bureaucracy. I think Defense this is a good

528
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:51,640
Speaker 4: move by Miles. I think it's a good message.

529
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:53,360
Speaker 1: This is what we're seeing, I guess is are we

530
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:55,760
Speaker 1: seeing Miles and Moriarty actually going right, that's it.

531
00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:57,160
Speaker 2: We're taking a room through the joint.

532
00:28:57,320 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 4: I suspect it is Moriarty driving that. Absolutely, that's that's

533
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 4: a good thing. As you say, I would like to

534
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:05,040
Speaker 4: have seen more responsiveness on his part in estimates and elsewhere,

535
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:07,440
Speaker 4: but it is what it is.

536
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:08,840
Speaker 3: I guess political.

537
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:10,920
Speaker 2: Advice as just the way we're talking now.

538
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:14,960
Speaker 1: But a political advisor once told me that their favorite

539
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:19,360
Speaker 1: description of any policy or announcement that their minister came

540
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:23,560
Speaker 1: up with was always long overdue, because it meant that

541
00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:25,880
Speaker 1: the public was absolutely ready for it. It wasn't going to

542
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:30,240
Speaker 1: shock anybody. Everyone was going to agree with it. But again,

543
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:34,560
Speaker 1: it speaks of that sort of risk aversion. Let's then

544
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:38,800
Speaker 1: talk now about So we've solved the solved Australia's defense,

545
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:42,440
Speaker 1: they've solved the relationship with the US. Let's go over

546
00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:45,480
Speaker 1: and get some and solve the Middle East peace crisis.

547
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:49,080
Speaker 2: Benjamin has obviously just.

548
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:52,720
Speaker 1: Nominated Donald Trump for the Nobel Peace Prize. I've got

549
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 1: the feeling that maybe the Custodians won't give it to Donald.

550
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:00,720
Speaker 1: I just I don't know why, can't put my finger

551
00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:02,520
Speaker 1: on it, but I've I've got the feeling they're just

552
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:03,480
Speaker 1: not Trump guys.

553
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:04,920
Speaker 2: They're not maga.

554
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 1: But there are a lot of people, including our guests

555
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:10,480
Speaker 1: last week, Adam Sloanem, who is the head of the

556
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 1: Middle East Policy Forum, very influential in the Labor Party,

557
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 1: And again, these are not maga people. These are centered, sensible,

558
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:24,719
Speaker 1: moderate experts like yourself, and they're saying what Trump did

559
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:28,520
Speaker 1: in Iran is actually a game changer and actually shows

560
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 1: a that Trump is prepared to follow through on his threats.

561
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:33,760
Speaker 1: Maybe not all of them, but you never know which

562
00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 1: one he will, so that sort of keeps people in line.

563
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:39,120
Speaker 1: And b they have just you know, bombed back Iran's

564
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:41,440
Speaker 1: nuclear program five or ten years.

565
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:43,200
Speaker 2: And made Iran.

566
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:46,800
Speaker 1: Where that they can't just kind of bluff their way

567
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:50,120
Speaker 1: through things, lock out the inspectors and expect that nothing

568
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:53,920
Speaker 1: will happen. And it now looks like there's going to

569
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:57,560
Speaker 1: be some kind of ceasefire between Israel and Gaza, and

570
00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:00,120
Speaker 1: Yahu is dragging his feet on it. I believe that

571
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:02,760
Speaker 1: mass has already agreed to the terms of a ceasefire

572
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:04,360
Speaker 1: proposed by the US.

573
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:05,560
Speaker 2: And delivered by Qatar.

574
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:09,480
Speaker 1: And then you've got the shake of Hebron, the largest

575
00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:11,600
Speaker 1: city in the West Bank, saying we don't want to

576
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:14,200
Speaker 1: be part of the Palatinian authority anymore. We want to

577
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:20,120
Speaker 1: become an independent emirate that recognizes Israel. As part of

578
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:24,320
Speaker 1: the Abraham Accords negotiated by Trump during his last administration,

579
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 1: realized I'm going on a bit, but I'm just sort

580
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:28,719
Speaker 1: of trying to, like you, put all these pieces together.

581
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:32,040
Speaker 1: We're actually looking at dare I say progress, dare I

582
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:33,760
Speaker 1: say a sort of proto piece.

583
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:36,600
Speaker 4: These are good pieces. And as you say, Trump was behind.

584
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 4: Trump has been behind a lot of this good news story.

585
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 4: The Abraham Accords will be a good outcome, and the

586
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:45,160
Speaker 4: fact that the recognition of Israel for a start, that's

587
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:49,960
Speaker 4: totally inconsistent with that. So look, that's a good news story.

588
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:52,480
Speaker 4: That's absolutely a good news story. And Trump has done

589
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:54,280
Speaker 4: the right thing in this. Let's sleep back to nineteen

590
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 4: eighty one when Iraq was developing their nuclear weapons capability.

591
00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:00,920
Speaker 4: Israel's bomb it shut it down the world, The French

592
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:02,360
Speaker 4: and the rest of smack nought Israel.

593
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 3: Naughty Israel. US said, yep, you know what, that's that's good.

594
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:06,280
Speaker 2: That's good.

595
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:07,800
Speaker 3: That worked behind the scenes.

596
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:09,040
Speaker 4: The rest of the world are going I'll thank you

597
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:11,800
Speaker 4: a Israel right, it's the same. Now, make no mistake,

598
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:16,800
Speaker 4: And do you think what do you think that peace

599
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:19,760
Speaker 4: will kind of look like? Because obviously, and again just

600
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:22,800
Speaker 4: to add another layer of kind of complexity to the

601
00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 4: jigsaw puzzle, but you've got Fatah in the West Bank,

602
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:31,240
Speaker 4: which is completely different to in opposition to and sworn.

603
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:33,680
Speaker 2: Sort of enemy of Hamas.

604
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:37,600
Speaker 1: In Gaza, the MUSS leadership has been absolutely virtually annihilated.

605
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:39,480
Speaker 1: I think eighty percent of it has been wiped out.

606
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:43,360
Speaker 1: Israel is now trying to encourage other kind of factions

607
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:46,600
Speaker 1: to come up and sort of be the default source

608
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:49,760
Speaker 1: of power in Gaza. Then you've got the Shake of

609
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:54,680
Speaker 1: Hebron rising up against the Palestinian authority against Fatah. So

610
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:58,640
Speaker 1: it's kind of it's very unclear who is in charge

611
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:03,320
Speaker 1: in any of these territories Gaza, West Bank in either

612
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:06,440
Speaker 1: of them let alone, and no prospect of having any

613
00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:10,200
Speaker 1: kind of unitary authority in charge of both of them.

614
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:11,440
Speaker 2: Are we looking.

615
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:14,600
Speaker 1: At not a two state solution but something like a

616
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:16,200
Speaker 1: kind of multi state solution.

617
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:19,479
Speaker 4: Look, firstly, from us, we can rot them off as

618
00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:23,479
Speaker 4: they're not in charge. That's what they've been decapitated and

619
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:25,000
Speaker 4: they're on the way out the door, and the population

620
00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:25,959
Speaker 4: are rising up against them.

621
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:27,480
Speaker 3: Anyway, we're seeing that in the daily basis.

622
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:31,240
Speaker 4: But the PAS has for a long time, I'm not

623
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:33,720
Speaker 4: recognized as well they've been. They've been as vocal, perhaps

624
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:36,640
Speaker 4: as vocal as as com us in that regard the

625
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:37,400
Speaker 4: shape of everyone.

626
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:38,880
Speaker 3: This this is a this is a game changer or

627
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:39,760
Speaker 3: in that regard.

628
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:42,160
Speaker 4: And I think for the PA to have some say

629
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 4: in a future government of sorts, they're going to have

630
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 4: to moderate their tone and perhaps start start talking to

631
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:51,800
Speaker 4: the to the shake and start thinking about recognizing you're right.

632
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:53,240
Speaker 4: I don't think it will be a two state solution

633
00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:55,840
Speaker 4: because there's still there's still the threat that is not

634
00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:58,040
Speaker 4: There can't be a two state solution when there are

635
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:01,480
Speaker 4: still people out there saying to state solution, drive Israel

636
00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:05,680
Speaker 4: into the ocean. So look, they're well, may be some

637
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:08,040
Speaker 4: sort of power sharing arrangement in those locations.

638
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:09,560
Speaker 3: And this is a good start. And this is it

639
00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:10,560
Speaker 3: was the original.

640
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:14,120
Speaker 4: Intent of the Abraham Accords anyway, because the Accords originally

641
00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:16,520
Speaker 4: didn't they couldn't see a two state solution being viable

642
00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:20,759
Speaker 4: really for a long time until all these issues could

643
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:22,320
Speaker 4: be addressed, and they weren't going to be addressed in

644
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:23,000
Speaker 4: the short term.

645
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:27,279
Speaker 1: And these, of course are for anyone who is has

646
00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:30,560
Speaker 1: a caught up with the last ten years of Middle

647
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:32,520
Speaker 1: East politics, which is just a sid.

648
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:33,440
Speaker 2: Really, I mean everybody.

649
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:38,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, these are the accords, the agreements negotiated by Donald

650
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:44,920
Speaker 1: Trump's son in law Jared Kushner, good Jewish boy, that

651
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:47,920
Speaker 1: basically was this sort of breakthrough that no one thought

652
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:51,120
Speaker 1: would be impossible, which is basically deal between Israel and

653
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:57,080
Speaker 1: all the Sunni Arab Gulf states to basically recognize Israel,

654
00:34:57,280 --> 00:35:01,360
Speaker 1: to allow Israeli passport holders to visit in some cases

655
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:03,120
Speaker 1: which would have been unthinkable they would not have been

656
00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:07,000
Speaker 1: allowed in the country in years past, allow Israel commercial

657
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:10,000
Speaker 1: Israeli commercial flights to fly over their airspace, although I

658
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:12,000
Speaker 1: have to say, having personal experience, its still not allowed

659
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:15,319
Speaker 1: to drink over Saudi airspace and that just ruined my

660
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:16,719
Speaker 1: flying experience and.

661
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:24,879
Speaker 2: What about my human rights right and now? And that's

662
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:25,400
Speaker 2: why it's.

663
00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:28,399
Speaker 1: So significant that the Shake of Hebron is now saying yes,

664
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:30,560
Speaker 1: we actually want to be part of this. So absolutely,

665
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:33,600
Speaker 1: I suppose, you know, could could we have a situation

666
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:38,920
Speaker 1: where you have you know, a Gaza Emirate, a West

667
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:43,040
Speaker 1: Bank Emirate, a Hebron Emirate, you know, gol and Heights.

668
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:45,920
Speaker 4: You know, the point about the emirates is a very

669
00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:48,000
Speaker 4: good point, I think, and that's that's you know, someb

670
00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:51,600
Speaker 4: Dividing it that way is not not without our possibility,

671
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:55,799
Speaker 4: it's not just unthinkable, but I think that really to

672
00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:58,600
Speaker 4: be able to stabilize Gaza, as long as there's any

673
00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:01,200
Speaker 4: footprint off from us and any thought in the part

674
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:05,120
Speaker 4: of the Paata about driving Israel into the ocean, then

675
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:07,320
Speaker 4: none of this can take place, regardless.

676
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:08,640
Speaker 3: Of what the Sikh Shake says.

677
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:11,600
Speaker 4: But if the Shik has this influence, which I suspect,

678
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:14,920
Speaker 4: he will have the rottings in the wall, so they

679
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:17,239
Speaker 4: could well be his entities around.

680
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:19,160
Speaker 1: And this is the report obviously, that first emerged in

681
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:22,320
Speaker 1: the Wall Street Journal this week, so you know, impeccable

682
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:27,799
Speaker 1: source and impeccable reporter. So before we declare peace in

683
00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:31,200
Speaker 1: the Middle East and just tick that box. On the

684
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:34,319
Speaker 1: other hand, you've got Benjamin Netanyahu, who was captive to

685
00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:40,680
Speaker 1: ultra right wing, ultra orthodox, ultra conservative, you know, one

686
00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:43,120
Speaker 1: of the three or all of the above in many cases, people,

687
00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:46,160
Speaker 1: you know, Jewish people who are just as a scatological

688
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:48,120
Speaker 1: who think that, you know, the Messiah can't come as

689
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:50,879
Speaker 1: long as there's Arabs living in Israel and that they

690
00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:56,080
Speaker 1: too want to wipe them out. Netyahu is not one

691
00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:58,360
Speaker 1: of them, but he needs them to stay in power,

692
00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:00,719
Speaker 1: and he needs to stay in power or is at

693
00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:04,319
Speaker 1: extremely high risk or an almost certainty of prosecution. So

694
00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 1: it's a bit like Julius Caesar when he crosses the rubicon.

695
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:09,440
Speaker 1: He has to keep his imperium, has to keep his

696
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:13,160
Speaker 1: authority or he's personally screwed. And so he has got

697
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:17,279
Speaker 1: to get into bed with these far right guys to

698
00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:23,360
Speaker 1: keep his prime ministership. How does that prevent him from

699
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:27,520
Speaker 1: being able to being able to reach a kind of

700
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:30,880
Speaker 1: compromise with any of these groups given the sort of

701
00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:33,280
Speaker 1: people who would have to back him, Does his Liquid

702
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:35,400
Speaker 1: party have a chance? Do you think any of the

703
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:39,799
Speaker 1: center parties could deal with him? They've refused to deal

704
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:42,640
Speaker 1: with his party liquid or him because of all his history.

705
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:45,880
Speaker 1: Is there a chance he could form a more moderate

706
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:48,760
Speaker 1: government that could get rid of the far right element

707
00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:54,960
Speaker 1: and do a deal? And also has Israel radicalized a

708
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:58,800
Speaker 1: whole generation of Ghazans who are just the next generation

709
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:02,239
Speaker 1: of Hamas because have been so traumatized by all the bonding. So,

710
00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:05,720
Speaker 1: you know, can there be a lasting piece or these

711
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:10,120
Speaker 1: things still or just sleeping dragons waiting to awaken.

712
00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:11,719
Speaker 4: Yeah, let's look at the term we use in the

713
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:13,680
Speaker 4: army is the ground truth. Let's look at let's look

714
00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:16,360
Speaker 4: at the ground truth. We have the IDF and Israeli

715
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:21,400
Speaker 4: police forces pushing, We're putting pressure on these settler communities.

716
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:23,839
Speaker 4: That's still happening now, regardless of what's happening in the

717
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:25,840
Speaker 4: inane set men in the cord of course, and in

718
00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:27,520
Speaker 4: the in their coalition.

719
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:29,439
Speaker 2: So telling Orthodox Jewish Sttler's back off.

720
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:31,799
Speaker 3: It's happening in real time, all right.

721
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:33,400
Speaker 4: So that itself is a bit of an in dcre

722
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:35,960
Speaker 4: that there is an appetite there. I think the more

723
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:39,719
Speaker 4: that the hard right see that, look, we need to

724
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:41,600
Speaker 4: get whoever whichever.

725
00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:43,680
Speaker 3: Hostages are still alive home safe.

726
00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:45,680
Speaker 4: And we don't hold a lot of hope there, of course,

727
00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:47,680
Speaker 4: But I think they're going to see the riding on

728
00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:49,759
Speaker 4: the wall as well, and I think that I think

729
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:51,879
Speaker 4: there must be a move towards the center because they

730
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:55,880
Speaker 4: Israel can't go on like that forever. And the population

731
00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:57,760
Speaker 4: has just had a pretty big hit from from Iran

732
00:38:57,840 --> 00:38:59,720
Speaker 4: for the first time for a while. To be honest,

733
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:03,319
Speaker 4: it's breached dined home, but quite substantially. My friends right

734
00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:05,440
Speaker 4: there now who are hearing the alarms every night, as

735
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:07,960
Speaker 4: I'm sure you do, so, look that there must be

736
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:09,719
Speaker 4: a move that way. And I think you're quite right

737
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:12,640
Speaker 4: Netanyah who isn't he does rely on the hard right,

738
00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:15,360
Speaker 4: but they must start moving towards the center if they

739
00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:17,160
Speaker 4: want to see resolution at the end, and the population

740
00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:17,839
Speaker 4: will force that.

741
00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:18,240
Speaker 3: I believe.

742
00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:21,160
Speaker 1: And do you think Gaza and Ghazans will be similarly

743
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:24,120
Speaker 1: war weary? Do you think they blame they genuinely, it's

744
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:26,880
Speaker 1: so hard to get accute information out, let alone get

745
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:29,919
Speaker 1: inside the head of someone who the population who most

746
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:33,640
Speaker 1: of the majority. But do they do you think in

747
00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:36,680
Speaker 1: terms of you know, do they blame Hamas more than

748
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:39,120
Speaker 1: Israel for what they have been through?

749
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:40,200
Speaker 2: And will they accept that?

750
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:42,520
Speaker 1: Will they be war weary enough say okay, Noah's peace

751
00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:45,440
Speaker 1: or will there be a generation of children who are

752
00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:48,320
Speaker 1: raised maybe not the generation that just got bombed to

753
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:52,399
Speaker 1: smither rains, but their kids who become radicalized by it.

754
00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:54,040
Speaker 3: I think there will be a degree of radical club.

755
00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:54,920
Speaker 3: We saw it in Afghanistan.

756
00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:55,360
Speaker 2: You know.

757
00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:57,799
Speaker 4: We we have people who are on the fence or

758
00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:00,960
Speaker 4: were pro coalition who overnight turn and because something happened

759
00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:03,880
Speaker 4: to their alleged their people. Really it happens. It happens

760
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:06,160
Speaker 4: quite quickly, but sort going to stand quite quite often.

761
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:08,200
Speaker 4: I think there will be a radicalized element. But the

762
00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:10,400
Speaker 4: same time we are seeing as you say, when we

763
00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:12,759
Speaker 4: can see some some facts coming out of the out

764
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:14,799
Speaker 4: of the place, the ground truth, I think we are

765
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:17,200
Speaker 4: seeing a move against Ramas and that's that's contributed to

766
00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:18,000
Speaker 4: the decapitation.

767
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:21,080
Speaker 3: I think the war wariness is a good point.

768
00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:23,120
Speaker 4: I think at some stage there will always be a

769
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:26,080
Speaker 4: radicalized element, and that's not that's not going to go away.

770
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:28,240
Speaker 4: But CHI can domestic I just want it to stop,

771
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:30,840
Speaker 4: that's right, and they can domestically police that. Once I

772
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:34,239
Speaker 4: have an internal security force which isn't Ramas, they can

773
00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:35,160
Speaker 4: domestically police it.

774
00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:38,240
Speaker 1: There you go, Glenn Colomites, you are always a source

775
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:39,480
Speaker 1: of hope and inspiration.

776
00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:41,200
Speaker 2: There you have it.

777
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:43,279
Speaker 1: Peace in the Middle East delivered once again on the

778
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:46,960
Speaker 1: Real Story podcast and Dead World peace as well, with

779
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:49,640
Speaker 1: brought to you by Glenn Colomites, Donald Trump, and and

780
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:51,759
Speaker 1: the Jackie.

781
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:54,960
Speaker 2: Lamby Network Color. Thanks so much for joining us fate

782
00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:58,600
Speaker 2: always a pleasure. Thanks mate, cheers, and that is all

783
00:40:58,600 --> 00:40:59,839
Speaker 2: we have time for this week.

784
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:02,960
Speaker 1: Make sure you go and leave us a review or

785
00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:06,560
Speaker 1: leave us a five star rating similar to the ratings

786
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:10,400
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787
00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:13,360
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788
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:17,640
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789
00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:20,640
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790
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:23,200
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791
00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:26,239
Speaker 1: the gram at Joe Underscore Hildebrand. You can read me

792
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Speaker 1: just everywhere. You can see me just everywhere. I'm just everywhere,

793
00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:32,680
Speaker 1: all the time, all at once. And next week I'm

794
00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:33,760
Speaker 1: going to be back with you again.

795
00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:34,359
Speaker 2: Take care,