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Speaker 1: My Boris and this is straight Talk the Center Price

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Speaker 1: welcome straight Talk.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for having me.

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Speaker 1: I actually follow you on Instagram.

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Speaker 2: I saw when you followed me. I thought, I've got

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Speaker 2: to get on this podcast.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you, thank you, thank you. And and of

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Speaker 1: course one of the things I got to know where

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Speaker 1: his name Frooms comes from, Like, tell me about the

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Speaker 1: name for rooms? What the hell does that mean?

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Speaker 2: What does it mean? Yeah, it's my mum's maiden name.

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Speaker 1: Oh really, yeah, so you so you just go away

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Speaker 1: your mum's maiden.

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Speaker 2: Name pretty much. But I thought, who has a made

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Speaker 2: a name like that when I was growing up? The name?

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Speaker 1: Boy, you use it enough? I mean it's a it's

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Speaker 1: Froome's world, of course. But one of the things I

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Speaker 1: want to talk about is your book, so I will.

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to start there, though hopefully we'll evolve

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Speaker 1: down there, because you know, these conversations you can go anywhere.

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Speaker 1: What are you drinking? Match it to you? Are you?

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Speaker 2: Yes? I have had one.

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Speaker 1: I have had match it But it's a bit bitter

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Speaker 1: for me.

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Speaker 2: You can get used to it.

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Speaker 1: Is that a hell thing?

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Speaker 2: You get? The slow police caffeine?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: I went through a phrase of not drinking coffee, which

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Speaker 2: is very unlike me. I given to all of my vices.

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Speaker 2: But I thought that's kind of something different and it's nice.

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Speaker 1: Yep, did you get the next door there? Make match

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Speaker 1: of two next door. I'm going to try it. I'm

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Speaker 1: definitely gonna try it because I was reading about it.

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Speaker 1: How you know, it's just from a health point of view,

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Speaker 1: it's better for you instead of drinking coffee. Like I'm

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Speaker 1: a coffee I drink too many coffees. I drink like

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Speaker 1: three or four coffee is a day easy. My first

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Speaker 1: one is about quarter to five in the morning. Oh really,

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Speaker 1: and that's at home. Yeah, So like literally when I

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Speaker 1: first wake up, like within ten minutes, I'm jamming a

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Speaker 1: little like espresso down my gob and I know it's

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Speaker 1: so good for me, but like otherwise, you know, I

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Speaker 1: can't see, I can't walk, I can't move, and you

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Speaker 1: know it's good off to me. So it was slightly

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Speaker 1: off topic, but nonetheless, so I want to talk about.

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Speaker 1: What I want to talk about is the origins of

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Speaker 1: why you wrote the book. But before we talk about

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Speaker 1: the book, can we go and also the book's title?

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Speaker 1: Before we go there, let's just go back a little bit.

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Speaker 1: What happened in your life that made you feel as

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Speaker 1: though you should write a book?

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Speaker 2: Oh?

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Speaker 1: Like and what are those events?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Well I always wanted to write a book, and

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Speaker 2: I've said before I think it's like part of being

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Speaker 2: someone who likes to express themselves. I think a lot

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Speaker 2: of people have this desire or this kind of dream

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Speaker 2: to write a book. It's lucky that I have worked

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Speaker 2: as a writer for ten years, so I had the

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Speaker 2: skills to be able to.

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Speaker 1: Do it in what capacity? Were you working as a

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Speaker 1: writer for ten years?

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Speaker 2: Always online? So the first thing I ever wrote was

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Speaker 2: for a friend's website that she created, and it was

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Speaker 2: pretty much just her and I that would write articles.

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Speaker 2: The first thing I ever wrote was about my dad,

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Speaker 2: like going down the street on a rollie chair from

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Speaker 2: hard Rubbish. So I've always kind.

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Speaker 1: Of watched what is that from herd rubbish? What is

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Speaker 1: hard rubbish?

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Speaker 2: You know what heart rubbish is?

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Speaker 1: No, what's hard rubbish?

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Speaker 2: Oh that's what we call like when you put the

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Speaker 2: junk cat from your house?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, what do you call it? I don't know? Junk?

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Speaker 1: I have done it? Yeah, no, I totally have. But like,

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Speaker 1: because you see the people driving around especially right picking

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Speaker 1: up good bits of it, a good piece of furniture,

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Speaker 1: and I iced to think, Oh, that's called the people

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Speaker 1: are going to get sort of recycled, et cetera, or

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Speaker 1: reuse it. It's called hard rubbish. So your dad is

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Speaker 1: at some stage, Is it a real deal? Your dad

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Speaker 1: at some stages founded a chair with rolls on it

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Speaker 1: or something and roll down the hill.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I remember it's so yeah, he features in

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Speaker 2: a lot of my content. Maybe not as much anymore

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Speaker 2: because he's down in Victoria, but I just never never forget,

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Speaker 2: like he was on this roller cheat and all these

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Speaker 2: kids from the neighborhood were running down this big, long

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Speaker 2: street with him. But it's one of those things where

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Speaker 2: I don't know if I'm remembering it correctly or embellishing it.

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Speaker 1: But you wrote a story about that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So I guess my point being, I've always written,

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Speaker 2: I've always kind of weaved personal stories into the things

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Speaker 2: that I've written, not so much much to talk about

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Speaker 2: myself all the time, though people might think that I

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Speaker 2: do that. It's more to I guess connect with people,

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Speaker 2: and yeah, maybe retaining it is.

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Speaker 1: Let's just take that one story is the purpose of

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Speaker 1: that though is to tell the story about what you

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Speaker 1: saw your dad doing, Like, actually I'm storytelling in your case?

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Speaker 1: Or is it to build a connection between the people

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Speaker 1: you want to tell a story to.

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Speaker 2: It's probably a bit of both. I'd honestly say it's

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Speaker 2: more of Colin May. I've always just wanted to entertain.

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Speaker 2: I want to I want you to read something and

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Speaker 2: enjoy it and enjoy yourself. And part of that is

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Speaker 2: like learning how to get into a story quickly and

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Speaker 2: keep people's attention. For me, anything I ever do is

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Speaker 2: about grabbing someone's attention and maintaining it for as long

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Speaker 2: as I can.

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Speaker 1: Here you, I mean, I look at yourself on instagramers.

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Speaker 1: As you said a moment ago, on social media, you

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Speaker 1: are a pretty expressy person naturally. Even when you walk

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Speaker 1: in this room, like you know, you can sort of

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Speaker 1: feel an energy as you sat down, there's an energy there.

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Speaker 1: Is your expressiveness? Is your outlet in relation to your

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Speaker 1: expressiveness social media and all your writing? Or is your

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Speaker 1: expressiveness your brand?

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Speaker 2: Oh well, I guess it's always. I've always had an

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Speaker 2: expressive face from the very beginning.

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Speaker 1: I can tell look at because that's the way you look,

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Speaker 1: the way you move your face, your eyes, everything about you.

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Speaker 1: I can just there's you're like an actress.

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Speaker 2: Thank you. Yeah, I'm lying all the time. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: I guess that's just in built into my personalities to

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Speaker 2: be I guess enthusiastic is what I would call it

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Speaker 2: an expressive and you're part of the expression. I think

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Speaker 2: the one that I find the most rewarding because you

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Speaker 2: have to use skill for it, is the writing, Whereas

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Speaker 2: I think social media just the way that those platforms

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Speaker 2: are designed, creativity isn't always at the forefront of that.

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Speaker 2: How do you mean, For instance, on Instagram, I'm a

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Speaker 2: lot more strategic than when I write. When I write,

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Speaker 2: I can kind of go a bit more.

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Speaker 1: On Tangent, you can wander around a little bit.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Whereas Instagram it's all very visual. To keep people's

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Speaker 2: attention with the algorithm you kind of have to put

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Speaker 2: on your story, for instance, a photo where you look

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Speaker 2: pretty and then a photo from far away and then

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Speaker 2: some text, but you have to wrap the text in photos.

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Speaker 2: It's a whole.

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Speaker 1: Different beast, much more strategic then.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So writing then, to some extent, is nearly a little

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Speaker 1: bit of an escape because you know, like being on

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Speaker 1: social media, like you are, and you're there a lot.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you work it pretty hard, which is and

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Speaker 1: it's always got to be on brand or what people

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Speaker 1: expect of you. As to your brand is quite constraining,

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Speaker 1: whereas writing by the sound of things, it allows you

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Speaker 1: to escape. Yeah, you know, it's a bit more relax

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Speaker 1: You can just move and move and manove yourself around

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Speaker 1: the place. So is your book an escape for you?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Absolutely. Because of the format, it was a challenge

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Speaker 2: because I couldn't use photos. I didn't want to do listicles.

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Speaker 2: I wanted to challenge myself to write something as if

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Speaker 2: I'm someone who studied writing, but I started I started

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Speaker 2: writing on the internet, so obviously when I started, you

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Speaker 2: can add photos and videos and gifts and emojis, whereas

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Speaker 2: with a book. The whole time, with the expressiveness, I

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Speaker 2: wanted to put emojis in there, but you couldn't. So

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Speaker 2: I had to find a way to express myself in

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Speaker 2: the way that emojis would be used. I'm a massive

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Speaker 2: emoji fan. In the book, no, but in words, in

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Speaker 2: words intense. You should see my text there Aladdin, because

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Speaker 2: I find it quite funny and I like that. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: I think the writing is definitely an escape in the

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Speaker 2: sense that you don't have that pressure to be on

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Speaker 2: and play by the social media platforms rules because every

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Speaker 2: single one has a different rule. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So, and most people don't realize that. I think most

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Speaker 1: people who look at social media who aren't in social

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Speaker 1: media but as opposed to more an observer of social media,

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Speaker 1: they're not looking at They're just looking at what appeals

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Speaker 1: to them. And of course social media works out what

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Speaker 1: appeals to you and starts feeding it the same stuff

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Speaker 1: that like in over my social media, my Instagram page,

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Speaker 1: and the guys who run it in one of them

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Speaker 1: sitting over here must wander to themselves when my feed

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Speaker 1: is always jiu jitsu stuff like I get like so

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Speaker 1: many has worked out I like jiu jitsu stuff, and

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Speaker 1: it just keep feeding me this stuff time after time

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Speaker 1: after And I know the guys are probably thinking, so,

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Speaker 1: what's Mark looking at it all the time, but that

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Speaker 1: it's very it's very clever. So you have to be

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Speaker 1: clever too in terms of building your presence, and is

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Speaker 1: your presence on social media? Is that a business decision?

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Speaker 1: Is there a business around that for you?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? I think when I started I started my Instagram

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Speaker 2: when I was working as a journalist at a young

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Speaker 2: media company, and so my Instagram was purely an outlet.

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Speaker 2: I would sometimes post work videos, but mostly it was

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Speaker 2: just this kind of place to be silly and post

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Speaker 2: whatever I wanted and be really absurdest. Whereas when I

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Speaker 2: lost my job at this youth platform, I didn't have

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Speaker 2: a website. I mean, I got a sub stack, which

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Speaker 2: is where I have my newsletter, which is kind of

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Speaker 2: where the books began, but I didn't really have an

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Speaker 2: alternate platform. So now my Instagram is definitely the one

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Speaker 2: place on the Internet where I put the most stuff.

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Speaker 2: I'm promoting my book, I'm promoting like paid partnerships, but

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Speaker 2: I'm also maintaining things that I'm passionate about. But I'm

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Speaker 2: also very strategic with what I don't put there because

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Speaker 2: I think it's very easy to start treating it like

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Speaker 2: a diary, which I don't want to do.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's interesting. So you know you have paid

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Speaker 1: partnerships as basically what you're saying, there's money involved, which

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Speaker 1: is important. You've got to make money because otherwise, specially

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Speaker 1: if you're spending all the amount of time you spend

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Speaker 1: on social media and social media takes a lot longer

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Speaker 1: than everybody knows, and it's just much more sort of intense,

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Speaker 1: just the preparation, the editing, the whole thing. Therefore, we

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Speaker 1: have to make a dollar out of it because your

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Speaker 1: time you're putting into it. If you're in your sense,

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Speaker 1: in your terms, you're telling us about what though on

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Speaker 1: your social media. So what are you trying to build

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Speaker 1: your audience off the back of, Because you know, if

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Speaker 1: you don't have an audience going to you don't have

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Speaker 1: any commerce involved with you. If you don't, if you

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Speaker 1: know one looks at your stuff, then the agencies will

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Speaker 1: pay your money to do partnerships. They won't give you

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Speaker 1: any money. Tough, Like, you've haven't got a big enough

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Speaker 1: audience to build an audience, you've got to have a message.

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Speaker 1: So what is your message or what are your messages?

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Speaker 1: What are they sort of fit around?

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Speaker 2: Yes, my message always is so simple. It's to entertain.

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Speaker 2: I don't think there's any higher, like higher idea at play.

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Speaker 2: I don't want to pontificate. I'm not here to teach

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Speaker 2: you a lesson. I'm here as like an escape and

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Speaker 2: I try and make things that I find funny. And

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Speaker 2: that's kind of what that's a contribution that I bring

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Speaker 2: and it suits me. That's what I got into it force.

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Speaker 2: I knows when I'm feeling a bit uninspired or it's

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Speaker 2: feeling a bit laborious, and I think, oh, why did

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Speaker 2: I get Instagram in the first place. I didn't have

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Speaker 2: social media before I started doing this job. Like, I

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Speaker 2: didn't have Instagram in year twelve in UNI, mostly because

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Speaker 2: I was like too worried about the following count, Like

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Speaker 2: I didn't want to follow more people than followed me

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Speaker 2: because I was kind of been like.

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Speaker 1: The top of the profile. Yeah, yeah, you follow ten thousand,

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Speaker 1: you have you follow ten thousand, you have three thousand

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Speaker 1: following you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I can't be doing that. So social media before

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Speaker 2: I began creating on it was a source of anxiety,

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Speaker 2: and to be honest, oh.

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Speaker 1: Really, yeah, I think so you got anxious about it?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because I've yeah, I kind of get anxious or

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Speaker 2: do it Does it look like I've got enough friends?

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Speaker 2: This that always kind of been very cognizant of where

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Speaker 2: I stand in the social peaking order, which is part

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Speaker 2: of the book as well. But yeah, I try and

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Speaker 2: remind myself I didn't get into this to swipe I'm

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Speaker 2: just here to create things, and that's mostly what I do.

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Speaker 1: One of the things I thought you might have been

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Speaker 1: doing is using comedy to talk about issues because you

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Speaker 1: are you are a comedian, I mean you are. You

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Speaker 1: are naturally a funny person, and you you do you

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Speaker 1: do stand up comedy?

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Speaker 2: No, I don't do stand up. I'll do sometimes like

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Speaker 2: a cabaret sull performance. Yeah, and I'm open to doing it,

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Speaker 2: but I wouldn't do like open mic or getting up

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Speaker 2: every night. I tend to do a set.

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Speaker 1: It's not my But you are naturally comedic in what

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Speaker 1: you do. You like to take the piss out of

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Speaker 1: things and sort of be funny. In fact, you take

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Speaker 1: the piss out yourself a bit.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you don't mind sort of using yourself as that

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Speaker 1: you're the medium through which other people might have a lot.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Or does that ever sort of put are you

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Speaker 1: putting yourself down?

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Speaker 2: Is that?

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Speaker 1: I don't understand that, Like, I mean a lot of

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Speaker 1: people do it. Don't get it wrong, But how does

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Speaker 1: that feel like putting yourself down?

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Speaker 2: Well, I don't see it as putting myself down.

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Speaker 1: I think we're making yourself the subject of the piss take.

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Speaker 1: Some people might see it that way.

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Speaker 2: I think typically the things that I'm taking the piss

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Speaker 2: out of a thoughts that I've had, not so much.

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Speaker 2: I don't beerate myself or make myself smaller on social media.

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Speaker 2: I don't find that funny. I don't find self conscious

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Speaker 2: kind of humor. It's not really my style. I always

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Speaker 2: the way that I approach it is like And whether

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Speaker 2: or not I'm doing this right now, I'm not sure.

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Speaker 2: Because book promotion has taken precedence and probably everyone's probably

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Speaker 2: like sick of it, But I have a book to promote.

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Speaker 1: Where is your book? By the way, did you bring

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Speaker 1: it in?

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Speaker 2: No? I didn't see what I mean, I've been too

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Speaker 2: focused on my social media.

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Speaker 1: We will talk about it and we'll bring it. We'll

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Speaker 1: get someone bring the book in a second. You bring

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Speaker 1: one along? No, you didn't bring a book? Wrong?

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Speaker 2: I know. Look, I had a whole launch in Melbourne

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Speaker 2: with just family and friends, but.

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Speaker 1: There's a Sydney.

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Speaker 2: That's what I'm saying is I always figured to bring

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Speaker 2: it but with us. Yeah, I'm wearing yellow. That's part

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Speaker 2: of the covert's yellow.

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Speaker 1: The cover's yellow. But because I was going to just

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Speaker 1: flash up there in front of the camera say buy

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Speaker 1: this book. And I don't get you to sign up

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Speaker 1: if you don't mind sending me a sign one please

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Speaker 1: because because clearly the book's important part of your party life.

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Speaker 1: And I want to talk to and I did talk

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Speaker 1: to you about it a moment ago about and I

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Speaker 1: did Ashmoga, And you haven't quite answered me yet. What

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Speaker 1: are the things that happened in your life that you

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Speaker 1: inspired you either that or motivated you to put into

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Speaker 1: this book? So they body image for example, those sorts

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Speaker 1: of things, Yes, talk to me about that.

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Speaker 2: So I never thought that I would write anything personal.

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Speaker 2: Like I said, I'm here to entertain. I want to

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Speaker 2: make it about my internal thought process is that people

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Speaker 2: have also experienced. That's when I'm funniest, I think is

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Speaker 2: when I'm writing about something that I think, oh, maybe

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Speaker 2: no one else thinks like that. Turns out everyone thinks

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Speaker 2: the same. So the book is kind of an extension

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Speaker 2: of that. But I focused on my experience of an

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Speaker 2: eating disorder and cosmetic surgery.

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Speaker 1: You had an eating disorder, yes, in which way you

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Speaker 1: ate too much, you ate not enough.

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Speaker 2: What they kind of see nowadays is it kind of

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Speaker 2: both to be honest, but it really became a problem

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Speaker 2: when I was anorexic or I had anorexia. Rah, you

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Speaker 2: won't call someone an anorexic. And that was when it

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Speaker 2: tipped over. And that's because of processes where if you

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Speaker 2: get too hungry, your brain stops working. So that kind

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Speaker 2: of eating disorder, I think gets a lot of attention

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Speaker 2: because of that reason and because there's a lot of

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Speaker 2: physical changes. But then I went into I had believe

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Speaker 2: in before that, So.

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Speaker 1: That's often difference between the two. Believe is the one

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Speaker 1: where you go with pure gup all the time after

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Speaker 1: you eat.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, or you can do other and I won't get

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Speaker 2: into them, but you can do other kind of purging behaviors.

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Speaker 2: Exercise a lot, do things some mitigate eating, and it's

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Speaker 2: often not necessary and it's very cyclic. You stay in

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Speaker 2: a cycle.

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Speaker 1: And when you were anorexic, do you mean you were

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Speaker 1: anorexic looking or you were just underweight? I mean how

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Speaker 1: slim or skinny did you get?

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Speaker 2: So to speak, the way that they diagnose it. Part

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Speaker 2: of the reason they diagnose it is when you're b

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Speaker 2: and I as a certain level, but now there are

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Speaker 2: you can be a higher weight and you could be

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Speaker 2: the way that I am now and be classified as anorexic.

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Speaker 2: It's definitely broadened because not everyone looks the same. I

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Speaker 2: think we've got this very specific idea of what someone

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Speaker 2: with anorexia looks, and then heats, people go undiagnosed and

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Speaker 2: it goes up and down. But yeah, I was definitely. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I was unwell and it was visible and physical, and

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Speaker 2: I wanted to write about that because it was very

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Speaker 2: obvious and it should have been very obvious to people,

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Speaker 2: But it wasn't obvious to psychologists that I saw, or

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Speaker 2: doctors psychiatrists even that I.

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Speaker 1: Saw during anorexic period, or you were seeing them not

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Speaker 1: as an anorexia patient but as just another patient. You're

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Speaker 1: seeing it for some other reason, like a mental health reason.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, because I was depressed and I thought that

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Speaker 2: in my mind, I thought I've got the perfect body.

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Speaker 2: Now I was very aware of how you know, I was,

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Speaker 2: but I thought I look great. But I feel so depressed.

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Speaker 2: I feel so hollow and like I don't want to

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Speaker 2: do anything. Nothing means anything. I don't have friends, I'm

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Speaker 2: spending so much time alone. This can't be related to

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Speaker 2: the fact I'm not eating enough food. It's just something

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Speaker 2: else is going on.

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Speaker 1: Can you just like it helped me out here, because

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Speaker 1: I like, I love my food, so I just can't

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Speaker 1: sort of imagine what's going on? What? What? What? What? What?

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Speaker 1: What starts off this? Let's call it this anorexic period.

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Speaker 1: And I don't mean becoming anorexic like at the end

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Speaker 1: of it. But what starts off this process of not

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Speaker 1: eating enough nutrition for example in a broad sense. But

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Speaker 1: is it an event in your life? What was it

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Speaker 1: an event? Or you thought you're watching social media, thought

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Speaker 1: I'm not skinny enough, or were you unhealthily overweight? What

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Speaker 1: was it?

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Speaker 2: No? I was always like straight size. I was never

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Speaker 2: teased for my weight. I never had an issue with

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Speaker 2: eating or food prior to being kind of twenty or

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Speaker 2: twenty one. It started when I moved to Sydney. So

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Speaker 2: I moved from Melbourne to Sydney for work.

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Speaker 1: Sydney can do that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that was part of it, to be honest.

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Speaker 2: It was this beautiful city, lots of hills. I lived

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Speaker 2: alone for the first time without my parents, so I

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Speaker 2: had to learn how to cook myself food. And I

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Speaker 2: had this idea that when I'm in Sydney. I'm a

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Speaker 2: whole new woman. I'm old now, I'm an adult.

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Speaker 1: I won did you say yeah?

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Speaker 2: I was twenty three by the time I moved to Sydney,

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Speaker 2: and I felt so adult. I guess it tipped into

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Speaker 2: something that would be diagnosable. Kind of the way that

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Speaker 2: I describe it, there's not one event. You kind of

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Speaker 2: slide in to it, and then you start sliding, and

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00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:05,199
Speaker 2: then the slide goes faster and faster and faster, and

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Speaker 2: it hits a point when you aren't eating enough that

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Speaker 2: your brain clicks over. It's kind of how.

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Speaker 1: They describe it when you say clicks over it like

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Speaker 1: stops working properly or that.

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Speaker 2: But it's more you kind of tip into. So prior

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Speaker 2: to developing full on anorexia, I was boalimix. I would

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Speaker 2: do what we were describing yep, and that had a

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Speaker 2: different contour because I was still getting kind of enough nutrients,

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Speaker 2: whereas when I didn't get enough nutrients with the anorexia,

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Speaker 2: it's just like a self fulfilling prophecy. You don't get

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Speaker 2: hungry anymore because when you're not eating enough, you're like

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Speaker 2: there's a particular hormone that I can't. No, it's not serotonin,

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Speaker 2: but it's one of the kind of big ones that

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Speaker 2: isn't thought of. Yes, yes, somewhat. So with the dope,

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Speaker 2: I meane, when you're not eating enough, you eat spikes,

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Speaker 2: so then when you start eating more, it actually goes down.

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Speaker 2: And that's why they speak of the hunger high and.

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Speaker 1: Feel like hunger high.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like runners high. It's kind of a similar

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Speaker 2: sensation in my experience. This is going to definitely need a.

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Speaker 1: Trigger warning, Yeah, totally.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, it's kind of a funny thing. And I

427
00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:19,119
Speaker 2: think a lot of people don't understand. How could you?

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Speaker 2: Aren't you hungry all the time? I thought, no, no,

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Speaker 2: if I eat, it's uncomfortable.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's sort of that was That is actually my question.

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Speaker 1: We weren't you hungry? And then and what would compel

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Speaker 1: you not to eat? But what you're saying is your

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Speaker 1: own body actually stopped you from meeting because you got

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Speaker 1: to high from it, so rewarded you for not eating.

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Speaker 2: Yep. And I thought that I wasn't hungry, and I

436
00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:41,840
Speaker 2: took a lot of pride in that I go home

437
00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:43,879
Speaker 2: with my parents and they'd be eating normal food, and

438
00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:46,520
Speaker 2: I think, oh, I'm not even hungry, and I kind

439
00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:49,360
Speaker 2: of felt really upmore and asks about it.

440
00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:53,760
Speaker 1: But how could they be eating I'm not even hungry. Like,

441
00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:55,600
Speaker 1: I can control myself exactly.

442
00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:58,119
Speaker 2: I can control myself. I thought I was better than people.

443
00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:00,919
Speaker 2: I thought I'd unlocked this cheek code. I thought, Oh,

444
00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:03,560
Speaker 2: back when I was eating a normal amount of food,

445
00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:05,000
Speaker 2: what a mess? I was.

446
00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:09,440
Speaker 1: Wow, Yeah, that's matt like. And what did your parents

447
00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:13,920
Speaker 1: say when they saw you not eating or actually diminishing

448
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:14,600
Speaker 1: in front of them?

449
00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:19,080
Speaker 2: In terms of physical I think at the start they

450
00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:21,480
Speaker 2: didn't think much of it. I think they just thowt

451
00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:23,600
Speaker 2: all lucinders in Sydney now. And I had lost weight

452
00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:26,520
Speaker 2: before that, like, for instance, when I was seventeen, my

453
00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:29,280
Speaker 2: boyfriend broke up with me and I just was so

454
00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:31,040
Speaker 2: sad that I couldn't eat. So they were used to

455
00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:34,520
Speaker 2: my body fluctuating somewhat within a certain range. But I

456
00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:36,280
Speaker 2: remember there was an instance where I came home and

457
00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:38,840
Speaker 2: Mum picked me up from the airport, and the way home,

458
00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:40,560
Speaker 2: I took my jump off and she just went ooh,

459
00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:43,080
Speaker 2: you're not losing too much weight, are you. And she

460
00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:45,360
Speaker 2: had never commented on my weight before. She's very, very

461
00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:48,080
Speaker 2: careful not to do that, I later learned just because

462
00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:50,920
Speaker 2: she had experience in eating disorder throughout her whole twenties

463
00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:53,000
Speaker 2: and the way that it went away. She would just

464
00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:55,560
Speaker 2: say to me, something clicked and I didn't have it anymore.

465
00:21:56,760 --> 00:21:59,600
Speaker 2: So she had kind of somewhat of an understanding of

466
00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:01,639
Speaker 2: what my brain was going through, but she was at

467
00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:04,800
Speaker 2: a loss as to what to do about it.

468
00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:10,879
Speaker 1: So what break broke the cycle? Was it your something?

469
00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:15,480
Speaker 2: It was a confluence of a lot of things. I

470
00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:18,560
Speaker 2: think it stops. I started getting better.

471
00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:21,200
Speaker 1: When I was twenty five or that many years.

472
00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:24,400
Speaker 2: Two years, yeah, probably three two or three years. Yeah,

473
00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:26,840
Speaker 2: But I think the real eating issues started probably when

474
00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:29,800
Speaker 2: I was twenty so probably five years then at a

475
00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:32,040
Speaker 2: couple of years. I probably didn't fully recover until I

476
00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:37,880
Speaker 2: was twenty eight. I turned twenty five, and your prefrontal

477
00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:40,119
Speaker 2: core tex developing is a really big part of it.

478
00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:42,159
Speaker 2: So maturation is something that can help a lot of

479
00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:46,760
Speaker 2: people get out of eating disorders and disordered eating. Funnily enough,

480
00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:50,959
Speaker 2: I think it was having a really great relationship with

481
00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:53,000
Speaker 2: someone who I knew liked me, not because of my body,

482
00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:55,720
Speaker 2: and he was a friend of mine first, and I'd

483
00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:57,840
Speaker 2: never kind of experienced that. I think I'd always had

484
00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:01,760
Speaker 2: relationships that we had a very power dynamic that was

485
00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:05,080
Speaker 2: typically male female, whereas this kind of felt like an

486
00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:09,920
Speaker 2: equal partnership and I felt like this person liked me

487
00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:12,720
Speaker 2: because I was funny. We had a lot of fun together.

488
00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:14,359
Speaker 2: So that helped me kind of get out of my body.

489
00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:18,520
Speaker 1: Did previous relationships that were based on physicality.

490
00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:21,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so yeah, looking back, I think so yeah.

491
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:24,320
Speaker 2: My early twenties and my teenage years right about that

492
00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:25,920
Speaker 2: somewhat in the book, but I don't get too much

493
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:30,159
Speaker 2: into it. So maturation, having a really beautiful relationship that

494
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:33,359
Speaker 2: wasn't about the way I looked COVID, and having a

495
00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:35,639
Speaker 2: lot of time to spend with my friends, and pulling

496
00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:37,320
Speaker 2: back a bit off work because for me, the eating

497
00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:40,040
Speaker 2: disorder was very much related to working in the media

498
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:42,199
Speaker 2: and thinking I had to be a certain way to

499
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:45,080
Speaker 2: be taken seriously or listened to as a woman. And

500
00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:47,080
Speaker 2: I still think that there is part of it that

501
00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:49,840
Speaker 2: I'm sure it helped, because for a lot of people,

502
00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:56,359
Speaker 2: the thin ideal is so interlocked with being successful, and

503
00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:59,360
Speaker 2: people see you as very thin. Again, they say your willpower,

504
00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:00,640
Speaker 2: people say, look your wheel power.

505
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:03,520
Speaker 1: How do you do it in chocolate or whatever? We're

506
00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:06,040
Speaker 1: all going to eat cross ons for because I'm in

507
00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:10,200
Speaker 1: the kitchen, especially in especially in media. Yeah, but you're not.

508
00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:13,800
Speaker 1: How come you're so strong? That's and that's a reward

509
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:17,240
Speaker 1: in itself, yep, because it's sort of confirms or affirms

510
00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:19,239
Speaker 1: in your own brain. And I'm doing the right thing

511
00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:22,840
Speaker 1: here because everybody else is socializing. Everyone's telling me the answer.

512
00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:25,040
Speaker 1: Telling me this now because I noticed it in the

513
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:28,120
Speaker 1: brief that you work with Flex. Yes, yeah, he's also

514
00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:32,280
Speaker 1: been on the show Flex. Mummy is mommy Flex my

515
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:34,800
Speaker 1: good friend. She went to Melbourne a couple years ago.

516
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:37,399
Speaker 1: She still know Melbourne. Yeah, yeah, so we're doing a

517
00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:38,720
Speaker 1: radio show. What were you doing with them?

518
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:40,959
Speaker 2: Yeah, we were doing a radio show and a podcast.

519
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:44,280
Speaker 2: By the time we did that, I was very much

520
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:48,400
Speaker 2: on the way to recovering and probably had already recovered.

521
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:52,080
Speaker 1: So yeah, we're still going ab with a dude, the guy.

522
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:57,760
Speaker 1: So like, I just don't know how you like, I

523
00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:02,240
Speaker 1: can imagine. I can't imagine and how someone could change

524
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:05,120
Speaker 1: the eating strategies, For example, I could not change meeting

525
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:08,040
Speaker 1: strategy from where I am now right, and whether it's

526
00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:09,560
Speaker 1: to eat more or eat less. I just got an

527
00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:12,720
Speaker 1: eating strategy, if you're eating strategies, is to eat less

528
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:15,439
Speaker 1: and not eat hardly at all. I would imagine it's

529
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:19,720
Speaker 1: extremely hard to turn your brain around, get your brain

530
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:23,080
Speaker 1: to make that change, especially when, as you just mentioned,

531
00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:24,919
Speaker 1: I didn't know this, but you were getting rewarded with

532
00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:29,400
Speaker 1: various Horner releases in the brain, sort of getting rewarded

533
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:32,320
Speaker 1: for not eating. How do you go about you going

534
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:35,000
Speaker 1: to see psychiatrists? Does your mum help you? I mean,

535
00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:39,400
Speaker 1: what's the process who grabs you by the hand and says,

536
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:41,000
Speaker 1: come on, let's go down this way and we'll sort

537
00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:42,360
Speaker 1: of the.

538
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:46,160
Speaker 2: Only person who can grab your hand is yourself. That's

539
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:49,560
Speaker 2: not to diminish the help that psychologists and psychiatrists can

540
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:53,000
Speaker 2: give you. However, I do think that a lot of

541
00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:56,760
Speaker 2: the experts that I saw didn't understand eating disorders. That's

542
00:25:56,760 --> 00:26:01,080
Speaker 2: a problem across the board. There are specialists. I worked

543
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:03,640
Speaker 2: very closely with the Inside Out Institute, which is specifically

544
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:06,239
Speaker 2: for eating disorders, and I think for people who are

545
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:08,960
Speaker 2: experiencing disordered eating or stuck in some sort of cycle,

546
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:12,160
Speaker 2: it's so important that you see an expert who understands it.

547
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:15,199
Speaker 2: So for instance, when I started eating more and it

548
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:17,240
Speaker 2: tipped and it went the other way, I saw a

549
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:21,040
Speaker 2: psychiatrist because I thought, oh, I don't want to do this.

550
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:24,240
Speaker 2: This must be related to something else that isn't to

551
00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:25,800
Speaker 2: do with the eating disorder. And you put me on

552
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:33,720
Speaker 2: an appetite suppressant, which is the appetite appetite suppressant, yeah, medication, Yeah,

553
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:37,040
Speaker 2: so stuff like that that it can be. You can

554
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:39,920
Speaker 2: be led down the garden path by so many people.

555
00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:41,679
Speaker 2: And when you when you have an eating disorder, in

556
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:45,919
Speaker 2: my experience, you're so sensitive to what people say. People

557
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:48,680
Speaker 2: will say you look really healthy. It's number one thing

558
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 2: never to say to someone who's recovering from an eating disorder,

559
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:55,560
Speaker 2: to someone who is recovering from an eating disorder, or anyone, yeah,

560
00:26:55,640 --> 00:27:01,159
Speaker 2: anyone who's experienced dysregulation with food. I think because people

561
00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:03,480
Speaker 2: tie food to the way you look so much, and

562
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:08,520
Speaker 2: we equate looking healthy with being fat, I think, especially

563
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:10,400
Speaker 2: if you've come out of a restrictive eating disorder.

564
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:16,800
Speaker 1: So when someone is let's call it, use the word,

565
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:20,479
Speaker 1: say the word fat, there's an association with that being healthy.

566
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:22,120
Speaker 1: Do you think.

567
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:26,199
Speaker 2: After being underweight, when you become a quote unquote regular

568
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:28,720
Speaker 2: weight and people start saying that you're healthy. It's just

569
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:31,399
Speaker 2: the number one thing you shouldn't say, because in your brain,

570
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:34,720
Speaker 2: even though you are say a regular size again quote unquote,

571
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:38,359
Speaker 2: because you know and he sucks me regular for you,

572
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:42,119
Speaker 2: it makes you You were already so hyper vigilant of

573
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:44,399
Speaker 2: the way that you look, when you're reminded by other people,

574
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:46,840
Speaker 2: it confirms this bias in your head that you have,

575
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:50,080
Speaker 2: that everyone is noticing and everyone cares. And to be honest,

576
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:52,600
Speaker 2: the first time I wrote about my eating disorder online

577
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:55,160
Speaker 2: was because I was gaining weight and I was so

578
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:58,120
Speaker 2: worried that people were looking and thinking, Oh, she's failing.

579
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:01,359
Speaker 2: She mustn't care about work anymore. Look, she's, you know,

580
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:04,040
Speaker 2: getting fat. And that's why I wrote about it. I

581
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:05,880
Speaker 2: didn't write about it to help anyone. I wrote about

582
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:07,879
Speaker 2: it because I was ashamed and I felt like I

583
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:09,800
Speaker 2: needed to get ahead of some narrative.

584
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:12,960
Speaker 1: Well, so now it's a good time to tell us

585
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:14,199
Speaker 1: the name of your book, And why did you call

586
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:14,479
Speaker 1: it that?

587
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:16,879
Speaker 2: Yes, so the name of my book. We'll just pretend

588
00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:19,119
Speaker 2: it's yeah. Is all I ever wanted was to be hot?

589
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 2: And I call it kind of part memoir, part manifesto

590
00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:28,520
Speaker 2: about my experience of an eating disorder and cosmetic surgery.

591
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:31,560
Speaker 2: How I felt when those when those were really big

592
00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:33,800
Speaker 2: parts of my life, and then reflecting on it as

593
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:37,480
Speaker 2: someone who's nearing thirty and having kind of a lot

594
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:40,360
Speaker 2: more life experience than when those things started.

595
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 1: And are you taking the pierce when you say I

596
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 1: always wanted to be hot? And if not, what do

597
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:51,280
Speaker 1: you mean by that? Like a and what is hot? Yes,

598
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:57,240
Speaker 1: I mean it's the social environment, of social media environment,

599
00:28:57,280 --> 00:28:59,320
Speaker 1: what looks, what is considered to be hot? What is hot?

600
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:03,959
Speaker 2: So the title maybe go back and kind of explain it.

601
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 2: When I started writing the book, it was first about

602
00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 2: my disordered eating and then I thought I also needed

603
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 2: to talk about it.

604
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:11,000
Speaker 1: We had a title.

605
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:13,600
Speaker 2: Before I had a title, Yeah, the title was originally

606
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:16,520
Speaker 2: something else, and I was writing with this other title

607
00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:18,480
Speaker 2: in my mind. And funny thing happens when you're writing

608
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 2: a book. I feel like when you have the title first,

609
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:24,440
Speaker 2: you kind of arrange the words around that kind of

610
00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 2: expression or that kind of idea. Probably got sixty percent

611
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:32,160
Speaker 2: into writing it. And I started writing about the cosmetic surgery,

612
00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 2: and I thought, no, that the guiding star through my

613
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:37,920
Speaker 2: whole life, and the reason I made so many decisions

614
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:40,560
Speaker 2: was because I wanted to be hot. And to me,

615
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:44,400
Speaker 2: hot is about being desirable and desirable to people who

616
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:46,880
Speaker 2: have a very specific idea of what a desirable woman

617
00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:49,840
Speaker 2: looks like. And to me, it was what I imagined

618
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:52,120
Speaker 2: a thirteen year old boy would think he is a

619
00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:54,840
Speaker 2: hot woman, so to be in demand, to be popular,

620
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:57,640
Speaker 2: to be the kind of person who would look like

621
00:29:57,680 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 2: they fit in on TV as a news presenter.

622
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:03,000
Speaker 1: Since so it's we're not talking about the bikini model

623
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:03,720
Speaker 1: hot type of.

624
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:06,600
Speaker 2: Thing or no, But I mean that'd be nice too,

625
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 2: But it's more hotness has power. To me, hotness is

626
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:13,520
Speaker 2: a woman's power, and it's the way that she gets noticed.

627
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:16,480
Speaker 2: And I always felt like I always felt that I

628
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:18,560
Speaker 2: had a lot to offer. I felt that I could

629
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:21,920
Speaker 2: be entertaining, I could keep people's attention, but in order

630
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:24,640
Speaker 2: to get it and to not be mocked, I couldn't

631
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:28,040
Speaker 2: be fat, I couldn't be ugly, and I couldn't also

632
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:29,800
Speaker 2: look like I was trying too hard. So for me,

633
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:32,320
Speaker 2: if the cosmetic surgery was definitely swept under the rock

634
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:34,440
Speaker 2: for so many years, and if I started dating someone

635
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:37,840
Speaker 2: would take me ages to tell them that I'd had

636
00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:41,960
Speaker 2: a rhinoplasty, for instance, because I I'm like a no

637
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:43,000
Speaker 2: shob no job.

638
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:45,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, is that the cos Many surgery you're talking about.

639
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:49,040
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's one of I've had.

640
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:50,360
Speaker 1: Just listen the off Yeah, go for it.

641
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:52,680
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, no, no, no.

642
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:54,120
Speaker 1: Please, because I'm curious, totally curious.

643
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:57,040
Speaker 2: So to rhinoplasty. When I was seventeen, fresh out of school,

644
00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:59,239
Speaker 2: just got off the plane on school. Is I had

645
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:01,000
Speaker 2: a brestle went when I was nineteen.

646
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:04,160
Speaker 1: Augmentation yep, boob job job, yep.

647
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:05,760
Speaker 2: I had a second runer past you. When I was

648
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:10,000
Speaker 2: twenty one, I started getting botox. I think when I

649
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:12,880
Speaker 2: was twenty three, got lip filler for the first time,

650
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:17,760
Speaker 2: around the same time as the breast implants. And yeah,

651
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:19,640
Speaker 2: that's kind of And then I add on top. I

652
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:22,320
Speaker 2: think things like hair extensions. I'd bleach blonde hair for

653
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:27,200
Speaker 2: fifteen years, faate tan, fake tan, machine lashes, everything, everything

654
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:30,840
Speaker 2: you could think of that enhances your appearance. I've thought

655
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:32,200
Speaker 2: about it or done it. Yeah.

656
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:37,160
Speaker 1: So and when you're doing that, that's mad that list.

657
00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:39,320
Speaker 1: But when you're doing when you're sort of going through

658
00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:41,800
Speaker 1: the process, is it more process or is it actually

659
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:44,240
Speaker 1: your strategy you think you hang on, I've got to

660
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:47,040
Speaker 1: get a boob job, I've got to get my lips fuller.

661
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 1: And it's for these reasons like full lips look more

662
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 1: attractive to or is it because everyone else is doing it?

663
00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:57,840
Speaker 1: And when I compare myself to everybody else on TV

664
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 1: or wherever the case may be, on my teeth white enough,

665
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:03,800
Speaker 1: Like when you watch television, everyone's got some of the

666
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 1: times their teeth are so bright they jump out at you.

667
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 1: It's interesting you when you first walked in, you asked

668
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:11,960
Speaker 1: about the lighting, and so you're still conscious of this

669
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:15,120
Speaker 1: stuff you were well aware of it. Is it was

670
00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:19,720
Speaker 1: that your hyper awareness of what looks what you supposed

671
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:23,080
Speaker 1: to look like, for example, in the media as a

672
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:27,920
Speaker 1: power person. Yeah, for sure, that's what hot meant to you.

673
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:29,200
Speaker 2: Yeah.

674
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:31,600
Speaker 1: And did you have icons of somebody who was a

675
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:34,200
Speaker 1: proxy to that? Did you say that person there, I

676
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:35,040
Speaker 1: want to look like her.

677
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:39,960
Speaker 2: Oh, not necessarily. It's all been very insular. For instance,

678
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:42,400
Speaker 2: when I had a RUNO plus seat, I didn't know

679
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:45,120
Speaker 2: many people who had had it, and celebrities didn't really

680
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:47,240
Speaker 2: admit to them. So there were people that were before

681
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:49,160
Speaker 2: and afters that you could find on the Internet, but

682
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 2: it wasn't kind of talked about as often as it

683
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:55,480
Speaker 2: is now. I love Sandra Sully, which is quite random.

684
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:56,480
Speaker 1: Is a newsreader.

685
00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:59,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, I loved watching her growing up. So yeah, for

686
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:01,120
Speaker 2: a long time when I was a kid, I wanted

687
00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:04,360
Speaker 2: to be a newsreader. And they're very quaieft and perfect.

688
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:08,720
Speaker 2: But in terms of social media, for instance, I wouldn't

689
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 2: look at pictures of women in their bikinis. I never

690
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:13,240
Speaker 2: put them on my wall like a lot of women did.

691
00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:16,080
Speaker 2: I was very much thinking of it, like you say,

692
00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:16,880
Speaker 2: as a strategy.

693
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:20,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, so, but the reason you didn't put well, they

694
00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:22,840
Speaker 1: less pick. The Kardashians, for example, is just one I

695
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:27,760
Speaker 1: know of. You know, they're all very curvy, and they

696
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:31,240
Speaker 1: have this straight hair and there's a look, it's a look, okay,

697
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:33,720
Speaker 1: And I see a lot of women here in Sydney,

698
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:37,040
Speaker 1: at least young women who look like a Kardashian to

699
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 1: me when I look at it. How were you ever

700
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:42,760
Speaker 1: around that territory? Do you ever think to yourself, that's

701
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:45,000
Speaker 1: that's my icon, that's my proxy.

702
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:46,480
Speaker 2: No.

703
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:49,440
Speaker 1: No, So when you say hot, then you're not looking

704
00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:51,680
Speaker 1: because you know a lot of guys who would say

705
00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:54,520
Speaker 1: that's hot. That's probably not what guys are thinking that's hot.

706
00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:58,640
Speaker 1: It's hot is more in relation to what you wanted

707
00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:02,240
Speaker 1: to do in a career sense. Who's my icon in

708
00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:03,240
Speaker 1: my territory?

709
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:07,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, it would be someone like a Channel B presenter.

710
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:09,440
Speaker 2: So I always had short hair, like all through my

711
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:11,319
Speaker 2: eating disorder, I had a shaved head, or I had

712
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:13,879
Speaker 2: very shaved head, yeah, or like a little fringe kind

713
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:16,720
Speaker 2: of like very anti male gaze. Not for any reason.

714
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:19,200
Speaker 2: I just loved that aesthetic, And honestly, I thought you

715
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:20,439
Speaker 2: had to be a certain.

716
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 1: Anti would you say anti male gaze?

717
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:25,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, it wasn't. I wasn't doing it to try and

718
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:28,160
Speaker 2: like push men away. I was still definitely interested in

719
00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:31,520
Speaker 2: being having attention. But I also had this kind of

720
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:35,040
Speaker 2: like my friend calls it terminal uniqueness, where you want

721
00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:36,520
Speaker 2: to be different to other people. I didn't want to

722
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:39,360
Speaker 2: be like regular girls. They also call them pick mesha.

723
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:40,359
Speaker 2: Have you heard of that? No?

724
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 1: Tell me does that?

725
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:44,759
Speaker 2: Pick mesha? So they call certain people pick me. It

726
00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:46,799
Speaker 2: can be any gender where you want to be different

727
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:49,840
Speaker 2: to everyone else, and then pick Mesha is like the

728
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:50,719
Speaker 2: name for that person.

729
00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 1: Yes, So, because because when you say I always want

730
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:58,399
Speaker 1: to be hot like it's actually a little bit more

731
00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:01,880
Speaker 1: obverse and than what the tie actually says, because hotness,

732
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:04,440
Speaker 1: I guess, is in the holder. Everyone's got a different

733
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:07,520
Speaker 1: view on it, but you've got a specific view of

734
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:08,600
Speaker 1: what it meant for you.

735
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:09,759
Speaker 2: Yeah.

736
00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:12,279
Speaker 1: I guess it doesn't matter though in terms of what

737
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:15,080
Speaker 1: the book's outcome is, because given that everyone's got a

738
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:17,480
Speaker 1: different view and they all go about it, maybe perhaps

739
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:19,880
Speaker 1: in the wrong way, they've got to be careful that

740
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:21,759
Speaker 1: they don't go down the same slippery slope that you

741
00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:24,279
Speaker 1: went down. Yeah, and is that the objective of the

742
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:29,520
Speaker 1: book somewhat? What were you trying to do or are

743
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:31,160
Speaker 1: you just having a yarn? No?

744
00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:33,200
Speaker 2: I definitely this is one thing that I did have

745
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:36,480
Speaker 2: a strategy to try. And maybe I don't want to

746
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:38,080
Speaker 2: go as far as help people because I think some

747
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:41,160
Speaker 2: people would read it and just be entertained. But for me,

748
00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:45,680
Speaker 2: things that I'm passionate about are having more regulation in

749
00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:48,120
Speaker 2: the cosmetic surgery industry.

750
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:50,399
Speaker 1: And regulation in that who can go and get it?

751
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 2: Probably who can get going? No, not so much that,

752
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:54,920
Speaker 2: because I think people should be able to make their

753
00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:56,839
Speaker 2: own decisions for their body. But I think there are

754
00:35:56,880 --> 00:36:01,920
Speaker 2: certain safeguards that would be helpful. I regret getting a

755
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:04,759
Speaker 2: breast oumentation. When I was nineteen. I didn't know what.

756
00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:07,399
Speaker 2: I didn't think about in ten years time, which is now.

757
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:09,799
Speaker 2: I didn't think, oh, you know, they have like ten

758
00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:12,240
Speaker 2: to fifteen year limits.

759
00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:14,760
Speaker 1: And in terms of the life of the implant, the implant, yeah,

760
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:16,680
Speaker 1: so what happens at the end of the ten years.

761
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:20,200
Speaker 2: Two things, You can get them out because they can rupture.

762
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:21,839
Speaker 2: So a lot of people realize it's time to get

763
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:25,200
Speaker 2: them out because they rupture in your body. There's no

764
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 2: it's not it's not fun, or or you can just

765
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:32,360
Speaker 2: get them out because you know you might need a

766
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:34,799
Speaker 2: lift or this or that because they like stretched the skin.

767
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:37,960
Speaker 2: But I went and got a I had an appointment

768
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:40,719
Speaker 2: a month ago to try and talk about getting them out.

769
00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:43,440
Speaker 2: I thought, now that I've written a book, I'm like,

770
00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:45,360
Speaker 2: you've had money to get my breast implants out. I

771
00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:47,040
Speaker 2: think it'd be three thousand dollars. It's going to be

772
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:50,720
Speaker 2: at least twenty thousand dollars. Yeah. And when I was nineteen,

773
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:53,440
Speaker 2: I thought, oh, no, no, no, I'm to be I'm

774
00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:55,440
Speaker 2: going to be married by the time I'm thirty with

775
00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:57,440
Speaker 2: a house imports here and I'm probably gonna have like

776
00:36:57,440 --> 00:36:59,800
Speaker 2: three kids. You know, you have such a different idea

777
00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:02,800
Speaker 2: of what your perfect life looks like when you're thirty

778
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:05,640
Speaker 2: and it creeps up and you real quick and what

779
00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:08,480
Speaker 2: you want that's not at all what I see for myself.

780
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:11,719
Speaker 1: So when I mean, I guess lots of women get

781
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:16,200
Speaker 1: breast in plants, But when do you think it's a

782
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:19,440
Speaker 1: good idea to get cosmetic surgery? Or like, what advice

783
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:22,600
Speaker 1: would you give to some person who's a younger person

784
00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:24,960
Speaker 1: in particular who's thinking about doing this? I mean, because

785
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:27,759
Speaker 1: I have wondered what happens when if a woman hasn't

786
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:32,400
Speaker 1: eight kids? So what happens when you've got breast implants

787
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:37,520
Speaker 1: when you're pregnant, assuming you want to breastfeed? They don't

788
00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:41,360
Speaker 1: want to get that? But what would you say to people?

789
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:43,440
Speaker 1: Because a lot of younger people getting all sorts of

790
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:46,960
Speaker 1: things done at a very young age, like nineteen eighteen,

791
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:50,200
Speaker 1: and your case that was you, what do you say

792
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:51,920
Speaker 1: to them? Get where do they get advice from? But

793
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:54,040
Speaker 1: what are the guardrails that need to be put around this?

794
00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:57,239
Speaker 2: There are guardrails that are now in place, very very

795
00:37:57,280 --> 00:38:00,839
Speaker 2: recently where people who are seeing a cosmetics urgent then

796
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:03,400
Speaker 2: have to go and get mental health check in with

797
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:05,480
Speaker 2: a doctor, right, Yeah, and.

798
00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:07,080
Speaker 1: There was a lot of their own doctor or a

799
00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:10,240
Speaker 1: doctor a doctor like a psychologist or a psychiatrist.

800
00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:12,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, to just get a read on why they're doing it,

801
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 2: what are your expectations, because often what can happen if

802
00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:18,399
Speaker 2: you're someone with body dysmorphic disorder, for instance, you can

803
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:21,239
Speaker 2: just keep going back. It's not perfect, it's not good enough,

804
00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:25,120
Speaker 2: you get revision rhinoplasty. After revision rhinoplasty, that's where you

805
00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:28,719
Speaker 2: see the overfiller is because you stop realizing what you

806
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:31,359
Speaker 2: actually look like. That's part of body dysmorphia. You can't

807
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:36,560
Speaker 2: actually see yourself for what you look like. So to me,

808
00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:39,759
Speaker 2: when I look back, I had anxiety depression from a

809
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:41,839
Speaker 2: really young age and that was on my record. But

810
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:43,200
Speaker 2: you know, cosmetic surgeons aren't.

811
00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:45,560
Speaker 1: Did you realize that? Did you realize that you had

812
00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:49,400
Speaker 1: anxiety and depression? Yeah, but nobody asked you the question.

813
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:51,920
Speaker 2: No, not when I was getting cosmetic surgery. And for me,

814
00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:53,960
Speaker 2: I totally I thought that's a mind thing, this is

815
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:57,120
Speaker 2: a body thing. I'm doing this as a strategy. As

816
00:38:57,120 --> 00:39:01,719
Speaker 2: you say said, but yeah, the breast implants for me

817
00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:04,319
Speaker 2: as well, so the rhinoplasty, I don't regret because I

818
00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:07,920
Speaker 2: don't see that as related to sexuality. For instance, with

819
00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:12,160
Speaker 2: the breast implants, as a nineteen year old, I'm not

820
00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:15,520
Speaker 2: thinking about breast I'm not thinking about breastfeeding. I'm thinking

821
00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:18,759
Speaker 2: what can I do to my body to make it

822
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:21,400
Speaker 2: the most appealing. And it's not so much for a

823
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:24,759
Speaker 2: random person, but it's rather because I felt like they're

824
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:26,680
Speaker 2: not perfect. I can never be naked in front of

825
00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:27,240
Speaker 2: someone again.

826
00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:30,279
Speaker 1: And when I had them done, before you had it done,

827
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:30,800
Speaker 1: you thought.

828
00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:32,640
Speaker 2: That before I had it done, Yeah, I'd only slept

829
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:34,879
Speaker 2: with one person before I had them done, and I thought, oh,

830
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:36,360
Speaker 2: I'm never going to sleep with I'm never going to

831
00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:38,720
Speaker 2: take my clothes off in front of anyone else before

832
00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:41,439
Speaker 2: I get them fixed. They went lopsided because I'd lost weight,

833
00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:44,080
Speaker 2: and I thought, oh, as a nineteen year old, the

834
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:45,840
Speaker 2: only thing I have is my body. I don't know

835
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:47,680
Speaker 2: the job about it. Should I have the job, but

836
00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:49,160
Speaker 2: you know, I don't have anything else going for me.

837
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:51,560
Speaker 2: If I'm going to find someone, I need to be

838
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:53,279
Speaker 2: as perfect as I can be.

839
00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:56,640
Speaker 1: Yeah. So and as an easy fix. I just go

840
00:39:56,680 --> 00:39:59,000
Speaker 1: along to the plastic surgeon order the top of people

841
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:02,640
Speaker 1: do this stuff. Just choose the shape and the size

842
00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:05,359
Speaker 1: that I want, pay for it and it's all sorted. Yeah,

843
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:07,120
Speaker 1: in which case I don't have to put weight back on.

844
00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:12,840
Speaker 1: I can stay on my current trajectory, which is just

845
00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:14,040
Speaker 1: no good no.

846
00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:18,640
Speaker 2: But I would never tell a woman or young girl.

847
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:20,560
Speaker 2: I'd never and I tried to do this in the book,

848
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:22,520
Speaker 2: and I mentioned this in the book. I never want

849
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:24,839
Speaker 2: to be the twenty nine year old who goes and

850
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:28,000
Speaker 2: tells a nineteen year old what they shouldn't shouldn't do

851
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:30,279
Speaker 2: for their body or you know, be aware of this,

852
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:32,719
Speaker 2: because when people my age now were telling me that,

853
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:36,680
Speaker 2: I thought, oh, you're just dried up. You know, you

854
00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:38,920
Speaker 2: can't get through to someone if you're telling them how

855
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:39,320
Speaker 2: to think.

856
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:44,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, that's an interesting point because when you're twenty nine,

857
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:47,239
Speaker 1: you don't think you're very old, but a nineteen year

858
00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:51,080
Speaker 1: old looking at twenty nine year old thinks she is old. Yeah,

859
00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:53,080
Speaker 1: And I see it in the rugby league world and

860
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:55,080
Speaker 1: I know you're from or you've been up here for

861
00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:59,400
Speaker 1: a while now, but I know that like young footy

862
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:01,480
Speaker 1: players went to the club at nineteen, and they look

863
00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:03,960
Speaker 1: at the guys in the twenty nine year old girls

864
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:06,040
Speaker 1: and the same team, and they think they're all guys

865
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:08,399
Speaker 1: like they And to me, look and look at all them,

866
00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:12,120
Speaker 1: I think they're all the same age and there's not

867
00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:16,080
Speaker 1: a there's only respect in terms of skills and stuff

868
00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:17,840
Speaker 1: like that. But don't tell me how to relieve my life,

869
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:21,239
Speaker 1: because you wouldn't have any understanding about how I leave

870
00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:25,439
Speaker 1: my life at nineteen. How do you weave comedy into

871
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:31,320
Speaker 1: your book? Because this conversation so far has been fairly serious,

872
00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:35,200
Speaker 1: and you know, and you're writing a book, so you

873
00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:39,920
Speaker 1: can't look friendly, and you know, you have a natural

874
00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:43,840
Speaker 1: thank me wrong, funny face. You look like you're funny,

875
00:41:44,239 --> 00:41:46,040
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, and you smile big and

876
00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:48,279
Speaker 1: all that sort of stuff. So I can I get

877
00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:51,400
Speaker 1: a different aura from you when you're talking about the

878
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:55,960
Speaker 1: side of your subject in your body language everything. But

879
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:57,520
Speaker 1: you don't do You're not going to give that to

880
00:41:57,560 --> 00:42:00,480
Speaker 1: me in a book because there's which is words text.

881
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:03,360
Speaker 2: Well, this is the beauty of writing, Mark, And this

882
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:06,000
Speaker 2: is the biggest compliment anyone can ever give me, and

883
00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:07,920
Speaker 2: it's that I write the same as I sound.

884
00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:10,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, so how do you do that? How do you

885
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:15,080
Speaker 1: bring that out? I mean, what's what's your what's your stick? Like?

886
00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:19,440
Speaker 1: Do you use words? Is it language or is it

887
00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:22,360
Speaker 1: a rhythm or is it like nearly in verse like

888
00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:24,120
Speaker 1: I'm reading home or something like that? How do you

889
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:25,719
Speaker 1: how the hell do you do it?

890
00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:25,880
Speaker 2: Like?

891
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:32,120
Speaker 1: How do you write colorful and energetic and enthusiastic and

892
00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:33,480
Speaker 1: stuff like that, like the way you are.

893
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:37,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's all just a skill. It's just a learned skill,

894
00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:42,400
Speaker 2: and I guess it's also I think writing as well.

895
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:43,960
Speaker 2: I think it's something you can learn, but it's also

896
00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:48,600
Speaker 2: some people just have a certain tone that you can't emulate.

897
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:50,239
Speaker 2: And that's what I think, like to think I have.

898
00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:53,759
Speaker 2: I'm very confident in my writing skill if anything, And

899
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:57,160
Speaker 2: I guess it's just I had a lot of training

900
00:42:57,239 --> 00:43:00,399
Speaker 2: working The original place that I worked was a youth

901
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:03,360
Speaker 2: news publication, and their whole tone was very trying to

902
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:05,120
Speaker 2: make jokes and trying to be funny. So I learned

903
00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:11,840
Speaker 2: the kind of craft there. But it's just about trying

904
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:13,440
Speaker 2: to write in a way that you're not trying to

905
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:17,000
Speaker 2: sound too smart. You're also not trying to try to

906
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:19,040
Speaker 2: dumb yourself down or think, oh, this I'm going to

907
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:21,279
Speaker 2: I'm going to get the most amount of people are

908
00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:24,000
Speaker 2: going to understand this, because people understand a lot more

909
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:28,120
Speaker 2: than you think. I often find when in entertainment, and

910
00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:31,000
Speaker 2: so it's just about finding a funny way of writing something.

911
00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:35,200
Speaker 2: I think you saying rhythm and the kind of words

912
00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:37,760
Speaker 2: that you use can be very strategic and funny because

913
00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:40,480
Speaker 2: I think the best comedies when you catch someone by surprise.

914
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:42,600
Speaker 2: I get that. That's kind of what laughter comes from.

915
00:43:42,719 --> 00:43:45,120
Speaker 2: Is oh yeah, that's funny. I get that. So I

916
00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:47,319
Speaker 2: always want people to read my writing and go, oh,

917
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:49,759
Speaker 2: I get that. I understand that. And I've had a

918
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:51,279
Speaker 2: lot of people message with me saying, oh my god,

919
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:53,480
Speaker 2: I think we're the same person, and to me, I

920
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:55,640
Speaker 2: think I'm really unique. So I think, oh, yeah, no,

921
00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:56,319
Speaker 2: that's a good thing.

922
00:43:56,600 --> 00:43:58,480
Speaker 1: You're unique and maybe the way you write it, but

923
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:01,319
Speaker 1: you're the same person the way you express it, because

924
00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:04,160
Speaker 1: they're they're they're obviously relating to it. How hard is

925
00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:06,600
Speaker 1: it to try not to be a lecture? You know? Like,

926
00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:11,640
Speaker 1: I got a friend and obviously you remain names say

927
00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:16,240
Speaker 1: it's a boy or girl for that matter. But Risson

928
00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:19,160
Speaker 1: sent me a note asking me if I can come

929
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:24,000
Speaker 1: and talk to him, you know, and and told me

930
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:25,399
Speaker 1: that I would get a bit of a surprise when

931
00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:28,600
Speaker 1: I saw this particular individual, because I hadn't seen this

932
00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:32,840
Speaker 1: particular person for a long time, and this particular person

933
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:35,480
Speaker 1: put quite a bit of weight on But the at

934
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:38,719
Speaker 1: the bottom of the text, this individual said to me,

935
00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:46,000
Speaker 1: and when you see me, I don't want a lecture. Interesting, Yeah, well,

936
00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:48,600
Speaker 1: don't lecture me, or something along those lines, And I

937
00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:52,360
Speaker 1: wrote back, well, I couldn't give a fuck. I'm just

938
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:57,480
Speaker 1: happy to see you anyway. How how hard has it

939
00:44:57,520 --> 00:44:58,840
Speaker 1: been not to make this a lecture?

940
00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:01,919
Speaker 2: I don't think hard.

941
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:05,959
Speaker 1: Well, that's in terms of your intent, But how hard

942
00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:06,960
Speaker 1: is it in the outcome?

943
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:09,839
Speaker 2: I understand, Yeah, I guess. Yeah. It's pretty easy to

944
00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:12,840
Speaker 2: fall into the do this, don't that, especially when you

945
00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:15,480
Speaker 2: feel passionate about something. And I do really think that

946
00:45:15,480 --> 00:45:16,880
Speaker 2: there is a right way and a wrong way to

947
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:20,120
Speaker 2: go about eating disorders. Definitely. I think the cosmetic surgery

948
00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:23,719
Speaker 2: is a bit more nuanced. But I definitely feel that

949
00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:27,880
Speaker 2: eating disorders and diet culture is unwell and it shouldn't

950
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:29,719
Speaker 2: be as normal as it is to speak the way

951
00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:32,600
Speaker 2: that we do about bodies does a lot more harm

952
00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:37,600
Speaker 2: than good. But I make a very conscious effort to

953
00:45:37,640 --> 00:45:41,440
Speaker 2: not lecture people just because I don't like being lectured

954
00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:44,680
Speaker 2: and I don't think you change people's minds by It's

955
00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:47,239
Speaker 2: like leadership. I've had really bad managers. I've had really

956
00:45:47,239 --> 00:45:49,239
Speaker 2: good managers. The ones that are good are the ones

957
00:45:49,239 --> 00:45:51,040
Speaker 2: that look you in the eye and treat you like

958
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:53,239
Speaker 2: an equal, but then hold you up when you need

959
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:56,279
Speaker 2: it or kind of give you feedback when you need it.

960
00:45:56,280 --> 00:45:57,840
Speaker 2: But you always feel that it's from a place that

961
00:45:57,920 --> 00:45:59,080
Speaker 2: they're bringing you up.

962
00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:00,000
Speaker 1: They're trying to make you better.

963
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:02,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they get it. And for me, it's always

964
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:05,440
Speaker 2: this kind of sounds funny, but it's a looking someone

965
00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:11,040
Speaker 2: in the eye in a warm way and acting like

966
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:13,759
Speaker 2: you know. I think the last the worst thing. I

967
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:16,680
Speaker 2: think the worst thing that you can do is treat

968
00:46:16,719 --> 00:46:18,600
Speaker 2: someone like you know better than them, because everyone is

969
00:46:18,600 --> 00:46:20,560
Speaker 2: an expert in their own life, and I think everyone

970
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:22,640
Speaker 2: thinks that they're doing things the right way.

971
00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:26,000
Speaker 1: It must have been how many pages in a writing

972
00:46:26,040 --> 00:46:26,440
Speaker 1: do you remember?

973
00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:29,680
Speaker 2: I think it's I can tell you how many words.

974
00:46:29,719 --> 00:46:31,520
Speaker 2: I think it was seventy or eighty thousand.

975
00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:35,600
Speaker 1: That's about seven hundred words a page. So you get

976
00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:38,160
Speaker 1: one hundred pages of a couple of hunder pages I don't.

977
00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:39,600
Speaker 2: Know, to seventy pages.

978
00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:43,080
Speaker 1: I'd say it must have been a mission because you've

979
00:46:43,120 --> 00:46:45,759
Speaker 1: got your own guardrails around what you want to do,

980
00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:50,759
Speaker 1: what you don't want to do. Tone, put comedy in there,

981
00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:53,640
Speaker 1: like make it, make it funny, et cetera. But at

982
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:55,200
Speaker 1: the same time express yourself, but at the same time

983
00:46:55,239 --> 00:46:56,680
Speaker 1: make sure you tell the truth and at the same

984
00:46:56,680 --> 00:46:59,120
Speaker 1: time talk your own story, which in some cases could

985
00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:02,560
Speaker 1: be not shocking a little bit off putting for some

986
00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:04,799
Speaker 1: people that were wrong footing. You also got to be

987
00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:08,000
Speaker 1: careful that you don't trigger anybody. This must be how

988
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:09,160
Speaker 1: long would take it write the book?

989
00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:12,319
Speaker 2: You're so right. They're the hardest things. They're all the

990
00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:16,160
Speaker 2: things that would stop me from writing. I physically like

991
00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:18,440
Speaker 2: the act of writing. I'll write another book because I

992
00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:22,120
Speaker 2: find it very enjoyable, and I love putting something down

993
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:24,080
Speaker 2: and then showing someone. I get so much joy out

994
00:47:24,120 --> 00:47:27,279
Speaker 2: of that. But yeah, I would struggle with getting in

995
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:32,000
Speaker 2: my own way, feeling like, oh I sound like a

996
00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:35,920
Speaker 2: I sound like I know it all, or this isn't funny,

997
00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:39,920
Speaker 2: or this is I sound like I'm complaining. My biggest

998
00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:42,200
Speaker 2: thing was I sound like I'm complaining, Oh way, where

999
00:47:42,239 --> 00:47:44,319
Speaker 2: you had cosmetic surgery and now you're not sure about it,

1000
00:47:44,360 --> 00:47:46,400
Speaker 2: like must be nice. So I was always worried that

1001
00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:49,880
Speaker 2: people are gonna think of me as really vain and vapid.

1002
00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:53,040
Speaker 2: And it's just you're just talking about yourself, which I

1003
00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:56,160
Speaker 2: try not to do, even though my whole books about myself.

1004
00:47:56,960 --> 00:48:00,399
Speaker 1: You know, I find it. Look, I'm dying to read

1005
00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:01,960
Speaker 1: at least the first couple of pages. I just want

1006
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:04,279
Speaker 1: to see the tone and the style and the.

1007
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:06,120
Speaker 2: Rest, see if I have toret myself up or.

1008
00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:09,640
Speaker 1: Having to yourself up. But you've you've presented to me

1009
00:48:10,560 --> 00:48:13,200
Speaker 1: because I've done a few books myself and I know

1010
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:18,000
Speaker 1: hardess to do it. But you've presented to me the constraints.

1011
00:48:18,680 --> 00:48:21,399
Speaker 1: And I couldn't write a book like that because there's

1012
00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:24,360
Speaker 1: just too many guardrails. I mean, I just go mental.

1013
00:48:24,520 --> 00:48:26,680
Speaker 1: Like when I write books, I just write her or want.

1014
00:48:27,719 --> 00:48:30,080
Speaker 1: In your case, I just want to know how you

1015
00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:32,600
Speaker 1: hell you navigated your way through that and stayed in

1016
00:48:32,760 --> 00:48:35,319
Speaker 1: two and seventy pages, stayed in your lane. It's a

1017
00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:38,440
Speaker 1: really tough one, but it's also really important topic too. Like,

1018
00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:42,239
Speaker 1: it's a very important topic, quite topical, and I and

1019
00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:44,560
Speaker 1: I know because I see other people like Celeste Barber,

1020
00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:49,360
Speaker 1: So she's great. She's built social media campaign around taking

1021
00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:51,800
Speaker 1: the piss out of herself on this this sort of

1022
00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:54,680
Speaker 1: very topic but doesn't very funny. But it's sort of

1023
00:48:54,719 --> 00:48:57,600
Speaker 1: quite simple, and it's it's pretty much a it's pretty

1024
00:48:57,680 --> 00:49:00,719
Speaker 1: much a repeatable strategy. She just the same thing over

1025
00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:02,160
Speaker 1: and over and over and over again, and she still

1026
00:49:02,160 --> 00:49:03,840
Speaker 1: gets the same amount of laughs and the same amount

1027
00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:07,480
Speaker 1: of views, and she's just as popular. Yours is much

1028
00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:11,200
Speaker 1: more nuanced. Your book, I'm saying, is much more nuanced,

1029
00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:13,960
Speaker 1: and so I'm actually looking forward to reading when you

1030
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:16,040
Speaker 1: send me a copy. Now, I'll buy a copy. Now

1031
00:49:16,080 --> 00:49:19,040
Speaker 1: we'll get a copy of the off the exnible. We'll

1032
00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:22,799
Speaker 1: post it up on our somewhere, on our primo. I

1033
00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:24,800
Speaker 1: do want to talk you before I go. Before you go,

1034
00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:31,520
Speaker 1: more importantly, this concept of Froome's world. Once I already

1035
00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:33,360
Speaker 1: told you earlier on that I was intrigued by the

1036
00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:35,080
Speaker 1: name Frooms came from. Now I know I thought it

1037
00:49:35,120 --> 00:49:36,719
Speaker 1: was some name you word you made up, or it

1038
00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:38,560
Speaker 1: meant something or rather than I didn't know about but

1039
00:49:38,760 --> 00:49:42,000
Speaker 1: now your mum's maid. But what is Froome's world?

1040
00:49:42,320 --> 00:49:43,719
Speaker 2: Well, I can tell you why I chose her maiden

1041
00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:47,640
Speaker 2: name is something. Yeah, like you guess my dad's Alerican.

1042
00:49:48,080 --> 00:49:50,359
Speaker 2: We call him Center in my household because everybody call

1043
00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:52,920
Speaker 2: him center Center. Everything revolves around him.

1044
00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:56,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, well he thinks it does or it does a

1045
00:49:56,160 --> 00:49:57,359
Speaker 1: bit of both, a bit of both.

1046
00:49:57,560 --> 00:50:00,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, massive personality.

1047
00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:02,960
Speaker 1: Which is name Steve, Steve's world there, so Steve. Yeah,

1048
00:50:03,040 --> 00:50:03,919
Speaker 1: your house is Stee's world.

1049
00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:06,640
Speaker 2: Yeah. He's cars salesman. Yeah, I use cars salesman. If

1050
00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:10,040
Speaker 2: that kind of like paint speecher. Very typical Australian male,

1051
00:50:10,239 --> 00:50:15,840
Speaker 2: sixty seven, just on paper, Homer Simpson. My mom is Yeah,

1052
00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:21,960
Speaker 2: my mom's opposite. My mom's quiet and considered. Uh. I

1053
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:23,720
Speaker 2: want to say he doesn't have a lot of confidence

1054
00:50:23,760 --> 00:50:26,400
Speaker 2: in herself. Maybe in a way or growing up, I

1055
00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:28,239
Speaker 2: felt as if she didn't have much confidence because I

1056
00:50:28,239 --> 00:50:32,560
Speaker 2: equated she's March. Yeah, probably a bit like March. Yeah,

1057
00:50:32,920 --> 00:50:35,200
Speaker 2: but she's I don't want to say she's smarter than dad.

1058
00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:37,440
Speaker 2: Becausedad'll probably listen to this, but she just has kind

1059
00:50:37,480 --> 00:50:40,279
Speaker 2: of like a world wisdom that I really appreciate and

1060
00:50:40,360 --> 00:50:43,840
Speaker 2: she's a nurse and she's very caring, and I like

1061
00:50:43,880 --> 00:50:46,040
Speaker 2: to think I'm a lot. I would be like get

1062
00:50:46,080 --> 00:50:49,000
Speaker 2: the get that from her, a bit more considered than say,

1063
00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:51,480
Speaker 2: my dad would be. But I always felt like she

1064
00:50:51,480 --> 00:50:54,000
Speaker 2: didn't really have a voice because she played a very

1065
00:50:54,040 --> 00:50:59,000
Speaker 2: maternal role in my household. And Dad's a like recount her,

1066
00:50:59,120 --> 00:51:01,480
Speaker 2: like he's telling all the stories and we're sitting and

1067
00:51:01,480 --> 00:51:03,480
Speaker 2: listening to his stories again and again and again. So

1068
00:51:03,560 --> 00:51:06,839
Speaker 2: I wanted to use her name because we feel very

1069
00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:09,600
Speaker 2: similar and I know that she has stories and she

1070
00:51:09,640 --> 00:51:12,959
Speaker 2: never talks about herself, and to me, it was important.

1071
00:51:12,640 --> 00:51:13,359
Speaker 1: To do with us.

1072
00:51:13,840 --> 00:51:18,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, in everyone else exactly. But she is funny, she's

1073
00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:20,680
Speaker 2: got a great sense of humor, and she's given me

1074
00:51:20,719 --> 00:51:22,560
Speaker 2: so much. She's the reason I'm doing this because she

1075
00:51:22,560 --> 00:51:25,160
Speaker 2: would always listen to me and always tell me I

1076
00:51:25,239 --> 00:51:27,960
Speaker 2: was creative, and believe in me, pay for me to

1077
00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:30,440
Speaker 2: do whatever I wanted, and has supported me the whole time.

1078
00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:33,720
Speaker 2: Watches everything I do, listen to everything, just classic mum,

1079
00:51:33,760 --> 00:51:39,040
Speaker 2: you know, sounds perfect and she's perfect. And then Froom's World,

1080
00:51:39,800 --> 00:51:42,440
Speaker 2: it's like Wayne's World was the inspiration. I love Mike Myers.

1081
00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:46,320
Speaker 2: He's probably my favorite funny person ever, And so I

1082
00:51:46,360 --> 00:51:49,319
Speaker 2: thought Froome's world, this is my world for whatever I want,

1083
00:51:49,320 --> 00:51:51,959
Speaker 2: my newsletters, whatever I want. My Instagram is whatever I want.

1084
00:51:52,239 --> 00:51:53,920
Speaker 2: And I think, I know you wanted to talk to

1085
00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:57,840
Speaker 2: me about like commerce and doing paid partnerships. Only do

1086
00:51:57,920 --> 00:52:00,680
Speaker 2: things that will work within Froom's world, things that I use,

1087
00:52:00,719 --> 00:52:05,880
Speaker 2: things that I like. So everything's very strategic. Yeah, do

1088
00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:07,400
Speaker 2: you have a do you have a website? Rooms for

1089
00:52:07,600 --> 00:52:09,800
Speaker 2: I do frioms dot com of course, and I've registered.

1090
00:52:09,840 --> 00:52:12,680
Speaker 2: I'm the pty Ltd. I'm a company. And also I

1091
00:52:12,719 --> 00:52:15,239
Speaker 2: didn't realize but I hadn't had the trademark, so I

1092
00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:16,080
Speaker 2: just bought the trademark.

1093
00:52:16,080 --> 00:52:17,560
Speaker 1: Oh good on you. So if I go to froomswhold

1094
00:52:17,600 --> 00:52:20,399
Speaker 1: dot com dot U is it dot you dot com

1095
00:52:20,560 --> 00:52:23,280
Speaker 1: dot com? So it's so if I go to frooms

1096
00:52:23,320 --> 00:52:25,239
Speaker 1: dot com, what am I going to see there? What

1097
00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:26,560
Speaker 1: are you going to What are you going to tell me?

1098
00:52:26,600 --> 00:52:28,880
Speaker 1: What's on there? Part from your book being my promo

1099
00:52:29,000 --> 00:52:30,799
Speaker 1: or I hope it's on there being promo, But what

1100
00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:32,000
Speaker 1: else am we going to see on there? What's your

1101
00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:32,719
Speaker 1: content got on there?

1102
00:52:32,719 --> 00:52:34,160
Speaker 2: We need to go and get you out in the

1103
00:52:34,160 --> 00:52:37,200
Speaker 2: desktop computer. So I can show you it's designed.

1104
00:52:37,520 --> 00:52:39,359
Speaker 1: What are you doing to me when when you when

1105
00:52:39,400 --> 00:52:41,839
Speaker 1: you're sort of nudging me towards it.

1106
00:52:42,360 --> 00:52:45,080
Speaker 2: So for me, it's all about the first impression and

1107
00:52:45,160 --> 00:52:47,239
Speaker 2: giving one a taste of kind of what you're in

1108
00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:49,680
Speaker 2: for because I don't even know. This is why I

1109
00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:51,600
Speaker 2: find it hard to explain what I do or people

1110
00:52:51,600 --> 00:52:55,239
Speaker 2: who started following frims. What is this? It's whatever I want?

1111
00:52:55,360 --> 00:52:57,160
Speaker 2: And so the website you go on it and it's

1112
00:52:57,200 --> 00:53:00,680
Speaker 2: my face. It's designed like a desktop computer. So you

1113
00:53:00,760 --> 00:53:04,839
Speaker 2: got all your little files, press writing by my book here,

1114
00:53:05,520 --> 00:53:07,759
Speaker 2: click on this random bin and you're going to get

1115
00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:10,719
Speaker 2: taken to a YouTube video that I made. So it's yeah,

1116
00:53:10,760 --> 00:53:11,640
Speaker 2: it's like a screen saver.

1117
00:53:11,960 --> 00:53:15,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you're doing YouTube, you're.

1118
00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:18,439
Speaker 2: Doing some what. But again, I don't do podcasts because

1119
00:53:18,440 --> 00:53:20,400
Speaker 2: I know if I do a podcast, I've got to

1120
00:53:20,400 --> 00:53:21,920
Speaker 2: treat it like a full time job. And I don't

1121
00:53:21,960 --> 00:53:24,680
Speaker 2: like talking that much. But yeah, you're pretty good at it,

1122
00:53:25,400 --> 00:53:27,839
Speaker 2: or I'll get if I've got a topic, I could

1123
00:53:27,880 --> 00:53:30,400
Speaker 2: talk now, i could talk underwater, But like I always

1124
00:53:30,400 --> 00:53:32,719
Speaker 2: want to make sure I'm bringing value, and I'm not

1125
00:53:32,760 --> 00:53:36,160
Speaker 2: sure if me talking about my life is the best value.

1126
00:53:35,920 --> 00:53:36,680
Speaker 1: You're a perfectionist.

1127
00:53:37,400 --> 00:53:38,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, a little bit, but not in the way that

1128
00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:42,960
Speaker 2: gets I never get hindered by it. I love making things.

1129
00:53:43,600 --> 00:53:44,680
Speaker 1: How do you mean making things?

1130
00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:47,640
Speaker 2: I love writing, I love my videos. I love being creative.

1131
00:53:47,880 --> 00:53:51,480
Speaker 1: Yeah. And when you say making videos, you mean like

1132
00:53:51,840 --> 00:53:55,359
Speaker 1: video content as in and but as you in it

1133
00:53:55,880 --> 00:53:59,439
Speaker 1: talking about some topic. So you're not really an evangelist.

1134
00:53:59,480 --> 00:54:04,360
Speaker 1: This book's about evangelism for you know, not getting you know, surgery,

1135
00:54:04,440 --> 00:54:09,200
Speaker 1: cosmetic surgery or or it's not an evangelistic book. It's

1136
00:54:09,200 --> 00:54:14,080
Speaker 1: sort of the sound was taking us on your journey.

1137
00:54:13,280 --> 00:54:16,440
Speaker 2: Taking us on a journey, and it's cultural studies. I

1138
00:54:16,480 --> 00:54:18,840
Speaker 2: look at the early two thousands in Australia really some

1139
00:54:19,000 --> 00:54:21,680
Speaker 2: history too, A lot of history, yeah, a lot people.

1140
00:54:21,719 --> 00:54:24,000
Speaker 2: I look at what your generation grew up with and

1141
00:54:24,040 --> 00:54:26,080
Speaker 2: how it's very interesting my generation.

1142
00:54:26,560 --> 00:54:29,799
Speaker 1: I'm Homo Simpson too, a little bit old.

1143
00:54:29,880 --> 00:54:33,320
Speaker 2: Actually bad dad if you got up at four am.

1144
00:54:34,040 --> 00:54:38,720
Speaker 1: I know, like my generationally cosmetic surgery. Well maybe someone

1145
00:54:38,840 --> 00:54:41,160
Speaker 1: might have got a nose job or.

1146
00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:43,839
Speaker 2: Something, but min Nana had a nose show. Really so

1147
00:54:43,880 --> 00:54:46,239
Speaker 2: my dad's mum. That's why my parents let me get it,

1148
00:54:46,280 --> 00:54:49,279
Speaker 2: because they yeah, oh there's a hole you got to

1149
00:54:49,280 --> 00:54:49,919
Speaker 2: read the book mark.

1150
00:54:50,680 --> 00:54:52,200
Speaker 1: I'm definitely going to read. I'm definitely going to read

1151
00:54:52,200 --> 00:54:54,879
Speaker 1: the first couple of pages. I'm dying to see your

1152
00:54:55,000 --> 00:54:58,680
Speaker 1: your writing style, you know, like and how you navigate

1153
00:54:58,719 --> 00:55:03,040
Speaker 1: your way through this complicated set of guardrails that let's

1154
00:55:03,080 --> 00:55:06,319
Speaker 1: just have to be set by you n society through

1155
00:55:06,400 --> 00:55:08,000
Speaker 1: something that's a really important topic.

1156
00:55:08,360 --> 00:55:10,200
Speaker 2: Message me and tell me is it coming across the

1157
00:55:10,200 --> 00:55:11,040
Speaker 2: same as I'm speaking.

1158
00:55:11,960 --> 00:55:15,120
Speaker 1: That's a good point. But you know, like, have you

1159
00:55:15,120 --> 00:55:17,880
Speaker 1: done an audiobook? Yes, you've done the audiobook. How do

1160
00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:19,120
Speaker 1: you feel when you did the audiobook?

1161
00:55:19,239 --> 00:55:19,879
Speaker 2: Have you done it?

1162
00:55:19,960 --> 00:55:21,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've done that. They drive me crazy when I

1163
00:55:21,960 --> 00:55:24,799
Speaker 1: did it, I always kept saying I was reading, Did

1164
00:55:24,800 --> 00:55:27,640
Speaker 1: I actually write that? Like my God? And by the way,

1165
00:55:27,680 --> 00:55:31,279
Speaker 1: I did my idea book audiobook some years after.

1166
00:55:32,440 --> 00:55:32,520
Speaker 2: That.

1167
00:55:32,600 --> 00:55:34,360
Speaker 1: I had written the book so that some of the

1168
00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:38,239
Speaker 1: stuff was actually not even that relevant, but that you

1169
00:55:38,280 --> 00:55:41,880
Speaker 1: have to be completely faithful to the book. You have

1170
00:55:41,880 --> 00:55:44,400
Speaker 1: to read everything, but just some of it. I've found

1171
00:55:44,600 --> 00:55:47,399
Speaker 1: very difficult to read out again. And when you read

1172
00:55:47,440 --> 00:55:51,960
Speaker 1: something as opposed to when you speak something, what's your

1173
00:55:52,080 --> 00:55:56,280
Speaker 1: rise on me? Not necessarily meant to be read out spoken?

1174
00:55:56,560 --> 00:55:56,759
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1175
00:55:57,280 --> 00:55:59,160
Speaker 1: Spoken? Out loud. It's a bit like people who write

1176
00:55:59,160 --> 00:56:01,759
Speaker 1: speeches and they don't actually go and read it in

1177
00:56:01,800 --> 00:56:04,200
Speaker 1: front of a mirror and on a microphone and listen

1178
00:56:04,239 --> 00:56:07,120
Speaker 1: back to it. They write speech and sounds completely terrible.

1179
00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:08,759
Speaker 1: When they get up and actually read it in front

1180
00:56:08,800 --> 00:56:12,040
Speaker 1: of everybody, that just sounds dreadful. And there are two

1181
00:56:12,080 --> 00:56:14,520
Speaker 1: different skills. So when you said to me, I hope

1182
00:56:15,400 --> 00:56:17,160
Speaker 1: this is a great skill, I mean, if you can

1183
00:56:17,200 --> 00:56:20,640
Speaker 1: do this, if you've achieved it, if I can, you

1184
00:56:20,680 --> 00:56:23,000
Speaker 1: want me to tell you if when I read it

1185
00:56:23,000 --> 00:56:26,239
Speaker 1: it sounds like the way you're speaking now, if you're

1186
00:56:26,239 --> 00:56:29,120
Speaker 1: going to achieve that, that's magnificent, that that's a big deal.

1187
00:56:30,000 --> 00:56:32,080
Speaker 1: Your book will be around up there with Homer or

1188
00:56:32,160 --> 00:56:33,920
Speaker 1: not home Missimo, but actually Homer.

1189
00:56:33,840 --> 00:56:38,279
Speaker 2: I prefer homusimoson the trick mark is I read out

1190
00:56:38,320 --> 00:56:40,080
Speaker 2: everything that I write after I write it, I.

1191
00:56:40,040 --> 00:56:42,200
Speaker 1: Write really Yeah, I read it out a loud.

1192
00:56:42,360 --> 00:56:43,080
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1193
00:56:43,560 --> 00:56:46,480
Speaker 1: So when you're doing the draft, the first first iteration,

1194
00:56:46,840 --> 00:56:48,799
Speaker 1: you actually you write a page, you read it back

1195
00:56:48,800 --> 00:56:50,440
Speaker 1: to yourself. Yeah, listen to.

1196
00:56:50,520 --> 00:56:53,760
Speaker 2: Every chapter is a story, and then it's all one story.

1197
00:56:53,800 --> 00:56:56,239
Speaker 2: It's all going to make sense, it's all going to

1198
00:56:56,239 --> 00:56:59,000
Speaker 2: be connected together. You can't have it be bitsy. It's

1199
00:56:59,040 --> 00:56:59,800
Speaker 2: all one story.

1200
00:57:00,080 --> 00:57:02,440
Speaker 1: Well, this book to me sounds to be honestly, sounds

1201
00:57:02,440 --> 00:57:06,440
Speaker 1: fascinating in the process and the outcome. The topic is

1202
00:57:06,560 --> 00:57:10,359
Speaker 1: very important. It's a critically important topic. And I wish

1203
00:57:10,440 --> 00:57:12,279
Speaker 1: you the very best and I'm definitely going to get

1204
00:57:12,320 --> 00:57:13,000
Speaker 1: a copy of that book.

1205
00:57:13,160 --> 00:57:15,000
Speaker 2: Thank you, Mark. I'm sorry to bring one next time.

1206
00:57:15,320 --> 00:57:17,560
Speaker 1: No, do you know what in terms of marketing one

1207
00:57:17,600 --> 00:57:22,400
Speaker 1: oh one, that's what you should be doing. You're fired, Yeah, totally,

1208
00:57:22,440 --> 00:57:24,280
Speaker 1: you're fired. No, no, you're hired. I'm going to get

1209
00:57:24,320 --> 00:57:26,080
Speaker 1: your book. You like, really nice to meet you.

1210
00:57:26,160 --> 00:57:26,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, you too.