WEBVTT - Liberal party corruption claims & fugitive backers: ICAC’s Operation Rosny explained 0:00:01.200 --> 0:00:01.840 For decades. 0:00:01.880 --> 0:00:04.720 It's shone a light on corruption of the highest order, 0:00:05.040 --> 0:00:06.359 even toppling premiers. 0:00:06.920 --> 0:00:07.840 I still can't. 0:00:07.600 --> 0:00:10.840 Recall the receipt of a gift of a bottle of 0:00:10.920 --> 0:00:12.160 nineteen fifty nine range. 0:00:12.360 --> 0:00:14.000 I can't explain what happened. 0:00:14.720 --> 0:00:17.680 My resignation as Premier could not occur at a worse time, 0:00:18.040 --> 0:00:21.480 but the timing is completely outside of my control, as 0:00:21.520 --> 0:00:23.959 the IKAK has chosen to take this action during the 0:00:23.960 --> 0:00:26.720 most challenging weeks of the most challenging time. 0:00:26.920 --> 0:00:30.480 Now New South Wales AYIKAK, the state's corruption watchdog, has 0:00:30.480 --> 0:00:33.440 set its sights on a secretive right wing Christian faction 0:00:33.600 --> 0:00:36.760 of the Liberal Party, the Reformers, and it's cashed up 0:00:36.800 --> 0:00:37.720 group of backers. 0:00:38.200 --> 0:00:40.640 We expect that the Commission may see the confluence of 0:00:40.760 --> 0:00:43.600 personal greed and political ambitions. 0:00:44.240 --> 0:00:48.280 Already, the public Inquiry code named Operation Rosney, has heard 0:00:48.280 --> 0:00:52.000 of shit sheets, sham payments, phone taps and dodgy deals 0:00:52.040 --> 0:00:55.840 with fugitive developers, with the Reformers connections reaching all the 0:00:55.880 --> 0:01:01.840 way to the top of the Liberal Party. I'm Ruby 0:01:01.920 --> 0:01:06.200 Jones and you're listening to seven AM today, Sydney Morning 0:01:06.200 --> 0:01:10.440 Herald's chief investigative reporter, Kate mcclemont unpacks the tangled web 0:01:10.440 --> 0:01:13.200 of players at the center of what she's calling aka's 0:01:13.280 --> 0:01:14.120 Game of Thrones. 0:01:18.560 --> 0:01:20.160 It's Wednesday, August five. 0:01:25.840 --> 0:01:30.520 Kate, let's begin by talking through some of the major 0:01:30.920 --> 0:01:34.560 players in this case. Could we start with this group 0:01:34.600 --> 0:01:38.080 of conservatives, the right faction of a liberal party known 0:01:38.120 --> 0:01:40.040 as the quote unquote Reformers. 0:01:40.120 --> 0:01:40.640 Who are they? 0:01:40.840 --> 0:01:44.520 Well, the two key people who started the Reformers are 0:01:44.880 --> 0:01:49.880 Rob Asif and Christian Ellis. And then we've got a 0:01:50.320 --> 0:01:56.600 lobbying outfit connected to them, which is Jeremy Greenward. Christian 0:01:56.640 --> 0:02:00.600 Ellis is connected with them, and also two brothers of 0:02:01.000 --> 0:02:05.080 former Premier Dominic Perroite. We've got John Claude Perrote and 0:02:05.120 --> 0:02:08.880 we've got Charles Perrote. And then as a sideline, we've 0:02:08.880 --> 0:02:15.040 got Disappeared, developed by John Lecief who is in Lebanon, 0:02:15.080 --> 0:02:17.640 but there's a warrant out for his arrest over serious 0:02:17.680 --> 0:02:22.240 forward matters. And we also have Dallas McInerney, who is 0:02:22.480 --> 0:02:26.760 the war was up until recently basically the boss of 0:02:27.160 --> 0:02:31.840 Catholic schools New South Wales. And another person of interest 0:02:31.960 --> 0:02:36.000 is a young employer a Dylan White Law although he 0:02:36.040 --> 0:02:39.560 hasn't been mentioned in the terms of. 0:02:39.560 --> 0:02:45.280 Reference Allegation one. This involves an investigation into potential breaches 0:02:45.360 --> 0:02:48.600 of the electoral funding laws between twenty nineteen and twenty 0:02:48.639 --> 0:02:51.920 twenty three by a number of persons who were interested 0:02:51.960 --> 0:02:55.120 to bolster the recruitment of Conservatives into branches of the 0:02:55.160 --> 0:02:56.239 State Liberal Party. 0:02:56.639 --> 0:02:59.119 And so by the sounds of it, this group of men, 0:02:59.160 --> 0:03:02.120 they had some pretty big ambitions. They were trying to 0:03:02.200 --> 0:03:06.400 recruit as many as five thousand people and completely changed 0:03:06.400 --> 0:03:09.079 the direction of the New South Wales Liberal parties. So 0:03:09.560 --> 0:03:12.080 how big of an operation were they building? 0:03:12.560 --> 0:03:16.320 Look, it was actually quite a small operation. But in 0:03:16.440 --> 0:03:19.760 order to achieve their goals, which was basically to have 0:03:19.840 --> 0:03:23.600 people elected to either state executive or to Parliament or 0:03:23.639 --> 0:03:29.040 to councils people of a like minded worldview and that 0:03:29.200 --> 0:03:36.360 is basically conservative Catholic values. But they needed money to branchstack. 0:03:36.200 --> 0:03:40.240 Including from prohibited donors in amounts that were not declared 0:03:40.600 --> 0:03:45.000 and exceeded applicable donation caps for purposes that included the 0:03:45.040 --> 0:03:48.520 recruitment and or renewal of members to the Liberal Party. 0:03:48.920 --> 0:03:51.440 Okay, so tell me a bit more about where the 0:03:51.520 --> 0:03:52.600 money was coming from. 0:03:53.080 --> 0:03:56.440 Well, the money was coming from John resif the developmer 0:03:56.560 --> 0:03:59.240 now John Asique was having trouble in Castle Hill. 0:04:00.040 --> 0:04:01.320 He had some very. 0:04:01.160 --> 0:04:06.000 Big developments, but the Building Commissioner David Chandler had issued 0:04:06.040 --> 0:04:12.680 rectification orders and also local MPs David Elliot and Ray 0:04:12.760 --> 0:04:18.000 Williams had expressed concerns from their constituents about these developments. 0:04:18.000 --> 0:04:21.760 So we've heard that some of the money from John 0:04:21.839 --> 0:04:25.520 Nacief was being channeled through these people to ruin the 0:04:25.640 --> 0:04:29.120 careers of Elliot and Chandler. 0:04:29.600 --> 0:04:31.280 We've also heard that some of the. 0:04:31.279 --> 0:04:36.320 Money was coming through just to bankroll the activities of 0:04:36.360 --> 0:04:37.280 the reformers. 0:04:37.839 --> 0:04:41.599 Mister mcief wanted the removal of the Old Hills Council 0:04:42.279 --> 0:04:46.839 linked to the center right faction and mister David Elliot MP, 0:04:48.040 --> 0:04:50.640 so as to replace them with members of the Liberal 0:04:50.640 --> 0:04:54.599 Party whom he thought would support his developments, and that 0:04:54.760 --> 0:04:57.919 may well have motivated him to make certain payments to 0:04:58.000 --> 0:05:01.840 Christian Ellis, Jeremy greenwo Good and Charles Perrete. 0:05:02.279 --> 0:05:07.000 We've also heard evidence from Michael O'Hara, who is a 0:05:07.040 --> 0:05:11.200 Conservative Catholic and he was also a hotelier and developer 0:05:11.839 --> 0:05:15.839 and being involved in the liquor business and development. He 0:05:16.080 --> 0:05:20.080 too was a band developer, so he was putting in, 0:05:20.440 --> 0:05:24.520 you know, quite considerable sums of money to a lobbying 0:05:24.600 --> 0:05:29.160 group associated with these people for work that was never done. 0:05:29.360 --> 0:05:33.560 So the allegation is essentially money wandering through this lobbying company. 0:05:33.720 --> 0:05:36.479 Yes, I guess it was. It was washing money to 0:05:36.520 --> 0:05:38.520 make it look like it was to be used for 0:05:38.600 --> 0:05:39.279 something else. 0:05:40.120 --> 0:05:44.320 And Ike also heard claims that Dallas McNerney, the former 0:05:44.440 --> 0:05:48.600 Catholic Schools New South Wales CEO, had wanted to shake 0:05:48.720 --> 0:05:51.000 down Angus Taylor for thousands of dollars. 0:05:51.560 --> 0:05:54.240 Tell me what exactly the inquiry heard about that. 0:05:54.520 --> 0:05:57.000 Well, it was interesting because they were always trying to 0:05:57.000 --> 0:06:02.360 get money from somewhere. So there was a text message shared. 0:06:02.360 --> 0:06:06.080 Bombshell text messages in a reformers group chat boasted that 0:06:06.200 --> 0:06:10.800 Angus Taylor committed personal funds, got the commitment from Angers 0:06:10.839 --> 0:06:15.920 for a fifteen K injection plus a three K monthly donation. 0:06:15.839 --> 0:06:19.320 But there has been no evidence that that money was 0:06:19.480 --> 0:06:23.560 actually forthcoming. It was just that they were all chatting 0:06:23.800 --> 0:06:26.920 with excitement about the possibility of receiving it. 0:06:27.240 --> 0:06:30.280 I'm not going to give a running commentary on all 0:06:30.320 --> 0:06:32.280 of this, so I'm not a party to the proceedings, 0:06:32.480 --> 0:06:33.840 but no payment was made, but. 0:06:33.800 --> 0:06:36.440 They produced text messages claiming that you were donators. 0:06:36.800 --> 0:06:38.880 Can you just think I said that no. 0:06:38.839 --> 0:06:39.599 Payment was made. 0:06:40.080 --> 0:06:41.760 Can you tell me a little bit more about the 0:06:42.120 --> 0:06:45.200 ideological bent here what they actually wanted to see happen 0:06:45.279 --> 0:06:46.440 within the Liberal party. 0:06:46.600 --> 0:06:50.880 Look, I think that they wanted to see Christian conservative values, 0:06:51.440 --> 0:06:57.120 anti abortion, anti trans, anti same sex marriage. And it's 0:06:57.160 --> 0:07:00.479 interesting that we've heard that quite a few of the 0:07:00.560 --> 0:07:05.400 people actually went to school at Redfield College, which is 0:07:05.400 --> 0:07:10.400 in the Hills area, and that is associated with Opus Day, 0:07:10.520 --> 0:07:14.239 which is a right wing group within the Catholic Church. 0:07:15.920 --> 0:07:18.400 A lot of the people shared those values and in 0:07:18.440 --> 0:07:21.240 fact that's where some of them met. And this includes 0:07:21.800 --> 0:07:26.160 the Perrote brothers. Dominic Perrote, the former premier, was school 0:07:26.200 --> 0:07:30.440 captain in the year two thousand. Now there's no suggestion 0:07:30.960 --> 0:07:34.760 that Dominic Perrote was involved in any of the activities 0:07:35.240 --> 0:07:39.080 of his brother, but they basically shared a right wing 0:07:39.480 --> 0:07:44.000 religious view of the world that they wanted to. 0:07:44.600 --> 0:07:45.720 Impose on others. 0:07:45.840 --> 0:07:48.720 Share with others, but that's what their goal was. 0:07:51.120 --> 0:08:03.360 Still to come sheets, wire taps and branch stacking. Kay 0:08:03.760 --> 0:08:06.520 The Reformers are also accused of branch stacking at the 0:08:06.600 --> 0:08:10.320 hills Shire Council, replacing the old members with people that 0:08:10.360 --> 0:08:13.520 they hoped would approve the developments of one of their 0:08:13.600 --> 0:08:17.600 main backers, the fugitive property developer Jean Nasieff. Can you 0:08:17.600 --> 0:08:19.040 tell me a bit more about Nasif? 0:08:19.440 --> 0:08:23.600 Well, yes, John mcief was at one stage one of 0:08:23.640 --> 0:08:28.080 the biggest private developers in the state, but things started 0:08:28.080 --> 0:08:33.880 to go awry for him when the Building Commissioner put 0:08:33.920 --> 0:08:37.960 rectification orders. It just basically meant you have got a 0:08:38.000 --> 0:08:41.880 lot of problems with your buildings. There are serious defects. 0:08:42.440 --> 0:08:46.200 We won't let you sell any more of these until 0:08:46.240 --> 0:08:53.160 they fixed. In June twenty twenty two, Ray Williams, who 0:08:53.400 --> 0:08:55.640 was a member from the Hills area, gone up and 0:08:55.679 --> 0:08:58.880 made an explosive speech to Parliament. 0:08:59.000 --> 0:09:03.319 Member for Kellyville, Ray Williams making astonishing claims about those 0:09:03.559 --> 0:09:04.880 in his own party. 0:09:04.640 --> 0:09:07.720 Who were paid significant funds in order to arrange to 0:09:07.760 --> 0:09:11.440 put new counselors on the Hillshire Council who would be 0:09:11.480 --> 0:09:14.800 supportive of future top Place development application. 0:09:15.480 --> 0:09:16.360 Now it was interesting. 0:09:16.559 --> 0:09:21.719 At the same time, John Nasieff was under investigation by 0:09:21.840 --> 0:09:26.520 Strikeforce Kohloul, which was a new South Wales organized crime 0:09:26.800 --> 0:09:33.839 Stripeforce and they were examining serious fraud allegations about Nasief 0:09:34.600 --> 0:09:39.040 and his daughter, and at the end of twenty twenty two, 0:09:39.600 --> 0:09:43.120 after Ray Williams's speech, it was decided that New South 0:09:43.120 --> 0:09:47.400 Wales Parliament would have its own inquiry into these allegations. 0:09:47.760 --> 0:09:51.040 Now I think the parliamentary inquiry, I think someone's were 0:09:51.040 --> 0:09:56.120 issued on the eighth of December, and John Nasiff departed 0:09:56.120 --> 0:10:00.840 this country to Lebanon on the ninth of December. A 0:10:00.880 --> 0:10:03.920 couple of months later there was a warrant issued for 0:10:04.040 --> 0:10:09.240 his arrest for serious fraud offenses. Basically, he was getting 0:10:10.320 --> 0:10:15.800 financial backing for his buildings by bodging up sales like 0:10:15.880 --> 0:10:18.280 pretending that he'd sold a lot more, but they were 0:10:18.320 --> 0:10:22.320 to friends and family. Since leaving the country in December 0:10:22.640 --> 0:10:27.319 twenty twenty two, there is no indication that Nasifi is 0:10:27.360 --> 0:10:29.720 going to come back for either of the four chargers 0:10:29.920 --> 0:10:31.359 or for the Aykak inquiry. 0:10:31.640 --> 0:10:34.840 Okay, So despite all of this and having left the country, 0:10:34.840 --> 0:10:38.480 it seems like he was still trying to influence politics here. 0:10:38.720 --> 0:10:42.400 Well. We heard that John Decieff was a person that 0:10:42.440 --> 0:10:44.240 seemed to have access to a lot of money and 0:10:44.280 --> 0:10:49.800 he was also funding private investigators. So we've heard that 0:10:50.080 --> 0:10:55.880 private investigators followed the then police Minister David Elliot trying 0:10:55.920 --> 0:10:59.319 to find something with which to blackmail him. We've also 0:10:59.480 --> 0:11:04.840 heard that through Genasif, the private investigators were also trying 0:11:04.920 --> 0:11:10.400 to stop summons being served by Parliament for people to 0:11:10.880 --> 0:11:15.960 appear at that parliamentary inquiry that we were talking about. 0:11:16.240 --> 0:11:19.520 So it seems that Nasif was still perhaps pulling the strings, 0:11:19.559 --> 0:11:22.920 perhaps still injecting money while overseas. 0:11:24.000 --> 0:11:27.520 Can you tell me any more about David Elliott and 0:11:27.559 --> 0:11:29.920 the so called chit sheet that was compiled. 0:11:30.200 --> 0:11:36.000 Yes, well, the shit sheet was supposedly compiled by young 0:11:36.120 --> 0:11:38.960 Dylan Whitelaw, who I think was sort of like about 0:11:38.960 --> 0:11:42.520 twenty one at the time, although even though he was 0:11:42.559 --> 0:11:45.400 shown it, he had very little recollection, like a lot 0:11:45.400 --> 0:11:47.560 of the witnesses seem to have a lot of trouble 0:11:47.559 --> 0:11:51.080 recalling until they're shown a text message or. 0:11:51.559 --> 0:11:52.840 You know, an intercepted call. 0:11:53.679 --> 0:11:59.520 So this shit sheet was basically making accusations. You can 0:11:59.559 --> 0:12:03.679 see that the attachment is David Elliot sheet doc X. 0:12:03.960 --> 0:12:07.080 The Watchdog has dug up a twenty twenty dirt file 0:12:07.280 --> 0:12:10.880 allegedly written by the so called Reformers in it a 0:12:10.960 --> 0:12:14.840 list of negative media stories and allegations mister Elliott was 0:12:14.880 --> 0:12:17.480 having an extramarital affair, but they. 0:12:17.360 --> 0:12:22.559 Were shocking this around media hoping that somebody would pick 0:12:22.600 --> 0:12:22.920 it up. 0:12:23.200 --> 0:12:25.839 And Kate, we know that John Neceiphe's phone calls were 0:12:25.840 --> 0:12:29.679 being tapped. Some of those conversations have been played out 0:12:29.720 --> 0:12:30.280 at AIKAK. 0:12:31.040 --> 0:12:33.800 Yeah, some of them have been played out, and interestingly, 0:12:34.640 --> 0:12:37.959 some of those were from twenty twenty one, so this 0:12:38.120 --> 0:12:43.439 is before either IKAK was looking or Ray Williams made 0:12:43.559 --> 0:12:47.319 his famous speech to Parliament in twenty twenty two. So 0:12:47.520 --> 0:12:50.640 some of the phone taps that we've heard, and these 0:12:50.720 --> 0:12:57.080 came from John mcif. They were rather explicit about how 0:12:57.679 --> 0:13:03.680 much he hated David and the Building Commissioner David Chandler. 0:13:03.840 --> 0:13:06.840 I've got my hand on the state government and you're 0:13:06.840 --> 0:13:08.200 going to see changes. 0:13:08.120 --> 0:13:11.400 And exactly what he was going to do to get 0:13:11.440 --> 0:13:12.360 them out of the way. 0:13:12.559 --> 0:13:15.360 I'm going to step on his neck and strip them 0:13:15.400 --> 0:13:16.320 from his job. 0:13:16.840 --> 0:13:20.280 Just give me two months, Kay. 0:13:20.720 --> 0:13:23.480 The reformers in this case, they began by saying that 0:13:23.520 --> 0:13:27.000 they wanted to change the Liberal Party from within, and 0:13:27.040 --> 0:13:31.160 there is nothing illegal or inherently corrupt about recruiting members 0:13:31.200 --> 0:13:35.240 to a political party. But stepping back, what does ikak 0:13:35.559 --> 0:13:38.600 allege this operation had become by the time we had 0:13:38.760 --> 0:13:41.760 Jean mcief calling himself it's godfather. 0:13:42.160 --> 0:13:46.720 Well, I think there's a breach of possible electoral laws 0:13:47.160 --> 0:13:52.040 which means that donations have to be accounted for. We've 0:13:52.080 --> 0:13:57.160 got allegations that Dallas McInerney from Catholic Schools, New South Wales, 0:13:57.760 --> 0:14:01.800 whatever his donations were for, there were invoices given for 0:14:01.880 --> 0:14:06.360 government services which apparently didn't happen. They were classified as 0:14:06.400 --> 0:14:09.559 donations and therefore exceeding the donation cap. 0:14:10.160 --> 0:14:12.600 With regard to Hotelia. 0:14:12.160 --> 0:14:17.840 Michael O'Hara and develop up John Nac they are prostributed donors. 0:14:18.280 --> 0:14:23.720 So by trying to disguise them as proper work, say 0:14:23.840 --> 0:14:27.240 for government relations or things like that, which are true, 0:14:27.400 --> 0:14:32.040 it's a way of circumventing electoral laws donation laws. So 0:14:32.600 --> 0:14:35.440 that's the kind of thing that Akaki is looking at. 0:14:36.560 --> 0:14:40.720 And in the past Aikak hearings have ended some very 0:14:40.760 --> 0:14:45.600 high profile careers, famously to New Southwal's premiers Barri O'Farrell 0:14:45.680 --> 0:14:50.160 and Gladysmorre Juclian lost their jobs after hearings that weren't 0:14:50.280 --> 0:14:54.320 really originally supposed to be about them. So how worried 0:14:54.320 --> 0:14:57.400 would you be if you were Angus Taylor or any 0:14:57.680 --> 0:14:59.000 senior lib right now? 0:14:59.520 --> 0:15:04.120 Look, it does have a way of capturing people unintentionally, 0:15:04.600 --> 0:15:09.400 so you don't know what surprises lay in store. That 0:15:09.440 --> 0:15:13.640 there was no way that IKAK was targeting Barrio Farrell, 0:15:13.720 --> 0:15:17.040 but if there are traps waiting, and look, you know 0:15:17.080 --> 0:15:19.320 we have to say about Angus Taylor. Although that he 0:15:19.400 --> 0:15:24.720 has been mentioned, both he and a Dominic Perrote whose 0:15:24.760 --> 0:15:30.840 brothers are involved, there have been no allegations about them 0:15:31.000 --> 0:15:34.680 at all. They've been mentioned in passing but nothing so far. 0:15:36.080 --> 0:15:38.920 Well, looking forward to hearing whatever else is to come 0:15:39.040 --> 0:15:39.320 in the. 0:15:39.720 --> 0:15:40.440 Next few weeks. 0:15:40.560 --> 0:15:44.880 Oh me too, me too, Okay, thank you so much 0:15:44.920 --> 0:15:46.360 for your time, my pleasure. 0:15:56.760 --> 0:15:59.920 Also in the news, the gambling industry has denied claims 0:16:00.160 --> 0:16:04.880 offered drugs and escorts as inducements to people experiencing gambling harm. 0:16:05.320 --> 0:16:08.880 Former NROL player Luke Bateman and anti gambling advocate Tim 0:16:08.880 --> 0:16:12.600 Costello made the allegations at a Senate inquiry into gambling reforms, 0:16:12.640 --> 0:16:16.200 claiming high spending customers were supplied drugs, alcohol and sex 0:16:16.240 --> 0:16:19.480 workers to keep them betting. Sports bet and Tab Corps 0:16:19.520 --> 0:16:22.800 say they have zero tolerance for the alleged conduct and 0:16:22.880 --> 0:16:24.480 are calling for any evidence to. 0:16:24.360 --> 0:16:25.600 Be referred to authorities. 0:16:26.640 --> 0:16:29.680 And a pro Palestinian protest held outside the Sydney Opera 0:16:29.680 --> 0:16:32.840 House two days after the October seven Hamas attacks and 0:16:33.000 --> 0:16:36.160 a Neo Nazi rally outside New southwalest Parliament are under 0:16:36.160 --> 0:16:40.240 scrutiny of the Antisemitism Royal Commission. The inquiry is examining 0:16:40.320 --> 0:16:44.120 police responses to the events, including allegations of anti Jewish 0:16:44.200 --> 0:16:47.560 chants and threatening behavior at the Opera House rally, and 0:16:47.640 --> 0:16:50.360 how the twenty twenty five Neo Nazi gathering was allowed 0:16:50.360 --> 0:16:50.840 to proceed. 0:16:51.280 --> 0:16:51.800 Commissioner A. 0:16:51.840 --> 0:16:55.840 Virginia Bell says peaceful protest is fundamental democracy, but the 0:16:55.880 --> 0:16:59.560 Commission will consider whether police responses to anti Semitic conduct 0:16:59.680 --> 0:17:00.920 can be improved. 0:17:01.280 --> 0:17:03.960 I'm Ruby Jones. This is seven a m. Thanks for listening.