1 00:00:01,480 --> 00:00:05,080 Speaker 1: We've probably come to regret the fact that more was 2 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:09,079 Speaker 1: not done then, because a stitch in time might have 3 00:00:09,520 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 1: helped everyone, including those young people who were running off 4 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:15,040 Speaker 1: the rails. 5 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:16,560 Speaker 2: There's a lot of people. 6 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:19,480 Speaker 1: Who were born somewhere else and came to this country 7 00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:23,320 Speaker 1: to build a life for themselves and their families, work hard, 8 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:29,960 Speaker 1: the whole migrant story, who are frightened of youth gangs. 9 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:33,120 Speaker 1: I'm Andrew Rule. This is life in Crimes. Today we're 10 00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:36,199 Speaker 1: going to have another look at the thorny issue of 11 00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:37,160 Speaker 1: youth crime. 12 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:37,480 Speaker 2: Now. 13 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:40,280 Speaker 1: It's only a few weeks since we did another aspect 14 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:40,960 Speaker 1: of youth crime. 15 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:44,320 Speaker 2: That was the episode we called the Kids. 16 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:47,880 Speaker 1: Are Not All all Right. Today we're going to look 17 00:00:48,159 --> 00:00:53,760 Speaker 1: at the youth crime wave that particularly involves car theft 18 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 1: and home invasion. And I'm indebted for this episode for 19 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:06,640 Speaker 1: the inn and knowledge and wisdom of my colleague Mark Butler, whose. 20 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:07,920 Speaker 2: Idea it was. 21 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:16,040 Speaker 1: Now, there always were some desperate escapee or robber willing 22 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:19,920 Speaker 1: to grab a car at gunpoint to flee from a 23 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:23,400 Speaker 1: jail break or a robbery gone wrong. That has always 24 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:27,919 Speaker 1: been a possibility in crime in Australia since since Ned Kelly, 25 00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:31,440 Speaker 1: although of course they'd be stealing a horse or a 26 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:33,360 Speaker 1: horse and buggy in the old day, it's not a car. 27 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:38,520 Speaker 1: But the idea of taking a vehicle at gunpoint isn't 28 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 1: exactly new. But what's new, what's new in the sense 29 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:46,960 Speaker 1: of new in the last ten, fifteen, maybe even twenty years, 30 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:52,600 Speaker 1: is this idea of young people taking cars, car jacking cars, 31 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 1: which is very scary. Taking a car by forcing the 32 00:01:56,560 --> 00:01:59,559 Speaker 1: driver out of the driver's seat and taking it by force, 33 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:05,960 Speaker 1: or now more so breaking into houses or entering houses 34 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:10,920 Speaker 1: and taking the keys, whether just burgling them quietly and 35 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:14,680 Speaker 1: sneaking out, or taking them by force, to steal the 36 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 1: cars from the drive why l from the garage. That 37 00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:21,840 Speaker 1: is a whole other thing. That is carjacking, That is 38 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:25,760 Speaker 1: car theft with a view to joy writing. And it's 39 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:30,280 Speaker 1: not perpetrated by a criminal who's trying to escape from 40 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:33,960 Speaker 1: a crime scene. It's a different thing, and therefore it's 41 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:37,240 Speaker 1: actually more pernicious for most of us, because there are 42 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:42,519 Speaker 1: dozens of these kids out in Melbourne in the suburbs 43 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:46,560 Speaker 1: every night or every week trying to steal cars to 44 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:50,320 Speaker 1: go joy writing at high speeds. Now it seems to 45 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:55,359 Speaker 1: me that these kids are not so much trying to 46 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:59,040 Speaker 1: escape the law. As you know at the old fashioned 47 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:01,679 Speaker 1: bank rubber Boss, they're trying. 48 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:02,919 Speaker 2: To provoke the law. 49 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:08,359 Speaker 1: They're actually deliberately taking prestige cars or fast cars, high 50 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 1: performance cars in the hope of provoking a high speed chase, 51 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:17,400 Speaker 1: or at least knowing that there's a huge chance that 52 00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:20,919 Speaker 1: they will provoke a high speed chase, and not being 53 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:23,839 Speaker 1: worried about that. That's all part of the game for them. 54 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:29,960 Speaker 1: To them, it is this ridiculous, dangerous, high risk, stupid game. 55 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 1: It's a game. They're not actually doing something for profit. 56 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:38,200 Speaker 1: They're not trying to feed families, they're not trying. 57 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:39,000 Speaker 2: To pay off debts. 58 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:44,520 Speaker 1: They are just taking cars from innocent citizens in order 59 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:49,240 Speaker 1: to have fun. In their terms, they're doing it for kicks. 60 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:54,360 Speaker 1: And it is this wave of crime that is of 61 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:58,240 Speaker 1: great concern to the police, to the public, and it 62 00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 1: should be of great concern also to politicians. Now, when 63 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:07,600 Speaker 1: we first heard about carjacking in Melbourne, I'm going to 64 00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:11,600 Speaker 1: take a wild guess and say the first example of 65 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:16,880 Speaker 1: it that I recall noticing, and this is not a 66 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:19,800 Speaker 1: statistical fact, this is just me reaching back into my 67 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:24,920 Speaker 1: own very average memory, and I think that a car 68 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:30,120 Speaker 1: was carjacked in Carlton, I think in daylight by a 69 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:35,679 Speaker 1: teenager from memory in probably the late nineties or early 70 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:38,440 Speaker 1: two thousand, so it's at least twenty odd years ago, 71 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:43,480 Speaker 1: and I recall noticing it because it stood out it 72 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:50,200 Speaker 1: was different, but it echoed a crime that happened with 73 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:53,400 Speaker 1: dreadful regularity in other parts of the world. And when 74 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:55,880 Speaker 1: I say other parts of the world, I mean very 75 00:04:55,880 --> 00:04:59,480 Speaker 1: troubled parts of the world, such as Johannesburg in South Africa, 76 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:04,720 Speaker 1: which is the worst bits of South America, in parts 77 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:07,840 Speaker 1: of Brazil and Venezuela and Colombia. 78 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:09,920 Speaker 2: Places like that where there's a. 79 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 1: Breakdown in law and order and where there are youth 80 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 1: gangs and they do a lot of reckless stuff, including 81 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 1: stealing cars. Now, when that happened in Melbourne those years ago, 82 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:26,120 Speaker 1: it stood out as something that was different from the 83 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:30,599 Speaker 1: usual run of thefts here. There'd always been some kids 84 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:34,160 Speaker 1: joy riding ever since cars were invented, you know, there'd 85 00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:37,159 Speaker 1: be people that would steal them to joy ride, and 86 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 1: you know, back in the fifties and the sixties and 87 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 1: the seventies, no doubt there was plenty of car theft 88 00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:45,000 Speaker 1: it was an era when cars were very easy in 89 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:48,880 Speaker 1: those days to steal. You could hop bire them with 90 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:54,840 Speaker 1: a screwdriver pretty simply and just drive away. Those old 91 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:58,520 Speaker 1: holdens and falcons and so forth that everyone had were 92 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:03,360 Speaker 1: easily stolen and often stolen. But these guys these days, 93 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:07,760 Speaker 1: they're more determined to get hold of a car. They're 94 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:12,520 Speaker 1: so determined that they will commit reasonably serious crimes. They 95 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 1: are willing to go armed, many of them, so they 96 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:18,919 Speaker 1: can force people to hand over their keys. They're willing 97 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:23,559 Speaker 1: to break into houses and commit burglaries or even worse, 98 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:27,520 Speaker 1: aggravated burglaries, going into a house armed with machetes or 99 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:30,159 Speaker 1: whatever it might be and forcing people to hand over 100 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:34,640 Speaker 1: the keys. Now, this elevates, you know, joy riding into 101 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 1: something far more sinister. They're willing to break into people's 102 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:43,279 Speaker 1: houses and frighten them in order to get the cars. 103 00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:47,120 Speaker 1: And that was something that really is new that's crept 104 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:51,039 Speaker 1: up in the last decade or so. This wave of 105 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:57,599 Speaker 1: carthifts has morphed into a whole youth crime wave, which 106 00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:00,719 Speaker 1: includes other stuff as well that goes hand in love 107 00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:03,400 Speaker 1: with it. A lot of these kids are armed, they're 108 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:07,960 Speaker 1: carrying knives or machetes or some form of weapon, not 109 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:09,360 Speaker 1: so much guns. 110 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:10,600 Speaker 2: But they would if they could get them. 111 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:17,080 Speaker 1: The recent well publicized adventure of the Carlton coach Michael Voss, 112 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:21,320 Speaker 1: who grabbed an alleged car thief after he and an 113 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:27,520 Speaker 1: accoumptless rolled a stolen Mercedes in Hawthorne, this Vos episode 114 00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:33,000 Speaker 1: underlines what we're talking about. You've got young people, clearly teenagers, 115 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 1: taking high performance or expensive cars and keeping them for 116 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:41,600 Speaker 1: as many days as they possibly can, and driving around. 117 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:44,520 Speaker 2: At ridiculous speeds so that they roll them. 118 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:47,120 Speaker 1: You know, you have to drive a good color that 119 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:51,120 Speaker 1: fairly stupidly in order to be able to roll it. 120 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:54,440 Speaker 1: It's pretty crazy stuff, which means that they are a 121 00:07:54,520 --> 00:07:58,200 Speaker 1: constant threat to the rest of us. Not only are 122 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:01,960 Speaker 1: they going to hurt themselves too often, they hurt other 123 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:06,560 Speaker 1: people because they run red lights, they run through pedestrian lights, 124 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:11,320 Speaker 1: they lose control and hit foot paths. If the worst happens, 125 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:15,040 Speaker 1: they can run through footpaths and through front fences and 126 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:18,920 Speaker 1: hit people's houses. This is a terrible state of affairs, 127 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:23,080 Speaker 1: and already, of course, it has led to the deaths 128 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:29,480 Speaker 1: and serious injuries of innocent people. Innocent people like that 129 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:33,679 Speaker 1: young man who was driving home at night recently. Now 130 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:36,720 Speaker 1: that crash was at the intersection of Warregal Road and 131 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:41,440 Speaker 1: Highbury Road out in burbledash Burton area. The young man 132 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:45,280 Speaker 1: who died was in his twenties. I think he was 133 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:48,360 Speaker 1: an innocent party, just going about his business going home. 134 00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:52,920 Speaker 1: Never got there because teenagers have stolen a car. They 135 00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:57,719 Speaker 1: speeding through the streets and they run into him, and 136 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:01,480 Speaker 1: of course he's killed. The innocent art is killed, and 137 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:07,240 Speaker 1: the alleged bad guys they basically walk. They were not 138 00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:12,720 Speaker 1: injured or not enough to hold them up. And so 139 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:17,360 Speaker 1: in Melbourne we have here a situation where it's alleged 140 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:20,800 Speaker 1: that some of these kids are repeat offenders, and some 141 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:24,000 Speaker 1: of them repeat offenders to a great extent. They have 142 00:09:24,559 --> 00:09:28,719 Speaker 1: been grabbed for karth eft and for driving offenses, and 143 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:33,520 Speaker 1: for having machetes and knives, and they've been bailed over 144 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:38,240 Speaker 1: and over and over again. Interestingly, when Michael Voss grabbed 145 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:40,960 Speaker 1: the young guy the other day with the rolled over 146 00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:45,960 Speaker 1: Mercedes in Hawthorne, it is said, and I believe it 147 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:49,560 Speaker 1: to be true, that when that alleged offender was searched, 148 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:52,680 Speaker 1: he had an edged weapon. He had a large knife 149 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:57,320 Speaker 1: or a small machete about his person. Now that tells 150 00:09:57,320 --> 00:10:00,840 Speaker 1: you that, in a slightly different set of circumstances, had 151 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 1: he not been grabbed while still shaken by a very strong, 152 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:12,160 Speaker 1: fast athletic man like Michael Voss, somebody like that lad 153 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:18,040 Speaker 1: with his concealed weapon could easily have hurt anybody who 154 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 1: tried to apprehend him, or even got in his way 155 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:23,360 Speaker 1: or looked at him the wrong way. 156 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:25,959 Speaker 2: Upset by fear, upset by. 157 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:29,600 Speaker 1: Aggression, upset by adrenaline, he could easily pull out a 158 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:32,760 Speaker 1: weapon and do something very bad. And the fact that 159 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 1: he's carrying it indicates that he's not thinking that straight. 160 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:41,440 Speaker 1: This is a pretty big deal and a pretty serious 161 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:45,240 Speaker 1: situation that we find ourselves in which there's two things 162 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:48,920 Speaker 1: about it. One is could it have been prevented? Well, 163 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:52,960 Speaker 1: you'd think perhaps it could have been at least ameliorated 164 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:58,920 Speaker 1: in the past. And it's interesting to note that it 165 00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:02,679 Speaker 1: has a erupt into a crime wave in recent times 166 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:07,560 Speaker 1: partly because in the past the authorities, and I mean 167 00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:14,640 Speaker 1: by that police, politicians and other authorities all deliberately seemed 168 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:18,120 Speaker 1: to turn a blind eye to it and didn't want 169 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:21,120 Speaker 1: to call it out. For what it was now. One 170 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:25,160 Speaker 1: of the reasons for that, I would suggest is that 171 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:29,680 Speaker 1: in the past, when we first saw these carjackings and 172 00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:34,440 Speaker 1: these home invasions, I mean as long ago as twenty fourteen, 173 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:38,680 Speaker 1: these things were happening. These things were starting to happen, 174 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:43,719 Speaker 1: and there was talk of teenage gangs. You know, there 175 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:49,320 Speaker 1: was talk among ordinary citizens who could see them congregating, 176 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:53,840 Speaker 1: and therefore there was talk in media stories of teenage gangs. 177 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:58,160 Speaker 1: And to some extent, some of these gangs were ethnic gangs. 178 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:00,640 Speaker 1: Some of them would appear to be sued in the gangs, 179 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:03,520 Speaker 1: some would appear to be Islander gangs, some would appear 180 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:06,000 Speaker 1: to be Middle Eastern gangs, some would appear to be 181 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:10,560 Speaker 1: gangs of none of the above, all sorts of different gangs. Again, 182 00:12:10,679 --> 00:12:14,040 Speaker 1: we've always had some sort of gang culture of some sort. 183 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:17,240 Speaker 1: We had them in the sixties and the seventies, and 184 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:23,120 Speaker 1: now we've got them again. But arguably they're committing more 185 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:29,160 Speaker 1: serious crimes now. But in twenty fourteen, the police would 186 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 1: not call them gangs because there was sort of political 187 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:34,600 Speaker 1: pressure not to the police would say, oh, no, well, 188 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:37,920 Speaker 1: there are groups. There are loose groups of young offenders 189 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:41,040 Speaker 1: who sometimes meet up and talk to each other and 190 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:46,200 Speaker 1: then go off and do things sometimes, but they leant 191 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:50,400 Speaker 1: over backwards not to call them gangs, because everybody was 192 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:55,160 Speaker 1: afraid that it would become some sort of knee jerk reaction, 193 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:59,959 Speaker 1: racist thing to actually describe what was happening with any accuracy. 194 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:03,520 Speaker 2: And we've probably. 195 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:07,160 Speaker 1: Come to regret the fact that more was not done then, 196 00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:14,120 Speaker 1: because a stitch in time might have helped everyone, including 197 00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:17,319 Speaker 1: those young people who were running. 198 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:17,720 Speaker 2: Off the rails. 199 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:21,480 Speaker 1: So we saw this sort of thing back in twenty fourteen. 200 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:26,679 Speaker 1: It was then that reporters started to ask police about 201 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:33,720 Speaker 1: these youth gangs, and reporters were rebuffed routinely by police 202 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:39,800 Speaker 1: who back then adopted nothing to see here attitude. Oh no, 203 00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:43,199 Speaker 1: there's not gangs. Oh no, don't exaggerate, We don't want 204 00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:47,679 Speaker 1: to exaggerated. It's just isolated events. There's no sign of 205 00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:51,840 Speaker 1: gangs as such, no sign of gangs per se. Sometimes 206 00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:53,960 Speaker 1: you know, these groups just break up and whatever. 207 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:54,320 Speaker 2: Whatever. 208 00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:58,880 Speaker 1: Well, by twenty sixteen, two years after that, we had 209 00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:02,760 Speaker 1: the Moonber Riots, and that seemed to turn a spotlight 210 00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:05,679 Speaker 1: on youth offenders and to crank. 211 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:08,240 Speaker 2: Up public pressure for the authorities to act. 212 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:12,560 Speaker 1: Now, the police of course, are nearly always the meat 213 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:17,640 Speaker 1: and the sandwich in these things, because police, to some 214 00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:22,000 Speaker 1: extent are answerable to the criticisms of the public, but 215 00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:26,560 Speaker 1: also they have to act in accordance with the orders 216 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:29,120 Speaker 1: passed down to them from high in the police force, 217 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 1: and the police hierarchy to a large extent reflects the 218 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:39,040 Speaker 1: interests and biases of their political masters. So if you've 219 00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:42,040 Speaker 1: got a police minister that belongs to a cabinet that 220 00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:46,880 Speaker 1: belongs to a government that is very keen on saying 221 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:49,680 Speaker 1: there's no youth gangs, we haven't got a problem, the 222 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:54,960 Speaker 1: senior police will mouth that fairly dishonest platitude, and that 223 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:58,360 Speaker 1: will filter its way down to inspectors and senior sergeants 224 00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:01,000 Speaker 1: and all the rest. But the fact that out on 225 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:03,920 Speaker 1: the street, all the young coppers on the beat know 226 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:07,560 Speaker 1: very well that it's wrong that there are gangs and 227 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:10,840 Speaker 1: they're doing bad things all the time. By twenty sixteen, 228 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:14,920 Speaker 1: of the Moonber riots, it couldn't really be ignored by everybody, 229 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:20,480 Speaker 1: but police meet in the sandwich. They resented claims that 230 00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:23,320 Speaker 1: they were racist. Police are in a bind here because 231 00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:25,720 Speaker 1: if they said, look, you know, there's two or three 232 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:29,280 Speaker 1: groups of views and one lot of African appearance, and 233 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:31,320 Speaker 1: one lot of is something else, and one lot is 234 00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:35,320 Speaker 1: something else. They know straight away that they will be 235 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:39,600 Speaker 1: criticized for that by people who are determined not to 236 00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:42,640 Speaker 1: address the actual problem and the actual theft and the 237 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:46,720 Speaker 1: actual assaults. They just want to criticize police for perceptions 238 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:52,120 Speaker 1: of racism, which is really dodging the real issue. But 239 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:54,280 Speaker 1: that doesn't make life any. 240 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:55,960 Speaker 2: Easier for the police because they're. 241 00:15:55,840 --> 00:16:01,920 Speaker 1: Ducking criticism from everywhere, and so they end up mouthing 242 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 1: or well Ian euphemisms instead of just speaking the truth. 243 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:12,840 Speaker 1: Despite the euphemisms, despite the evasions, despite the attitude of 244 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:15,880 Speaker 1: nothing to see here, it was clear that in that 245 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:22,520 Speaker 1: eray fourteen fifteen sixteen, that there were plenty of youth 246 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:25,840 Speaker 1: gangs and they were doing plenty of bad things. Now, 247 00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:30,880 Speaker 1: by twenty eighteen, this issue had actually generated its own 248 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:35,360 Speaker 1: edition of the ABC Current Affairs panel show Q and A, 249 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:39,560 Speaker 1: filmed in Dandyenong, which back then and to some extent 250 00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:43,840 Speaker 1: now was and is a youth crime hotspot. The panel 251 00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:47,200 Speaker 1: included a once prominent or then prominent police officer, that 252 00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:50,840 Speaker 1: would be Stuart Bateson, who later hit a hurdle, a 253 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:55,680 Speaker 1: politician called Alan Tudsho later hit a hurdle, an African born. 254 00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:57,720 Speaker 2: Lawyer who has not hit a hurdle. 255 00:16:57,760 --> 00:17:00,400 Speaker 1: She's I think going very well and so she should 256 00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:05,200 Speaker 1: and a crime reporter, alleged crime reporter that would be met. 257 00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:11,000 Speaker 1: It was a time of peak denial of youth gangs 258 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:16,000 Speaker 1: now Q and A produced by the ABC's finest out 259 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:19,600 Speaker 1: of in a suburban Sydney in a suburban Melbourne. The 260 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:22,600 Speaker 1: people that produced it ensured that the audience gathered that 261 00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:28,920 Speaker 1: night was diverse, but apart from a handful of outnumbered attendees, 262 00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:32,960 Speaker 1: the prepared questions seemed not to reflect the concerns of 263 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:38,280 Speaker 1: a wide range of ordinary people, many of them migrants themselves. 264 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:42,399 Speaker 1: What I meant by that long sentences that there's a 265 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:46,040 Speaker 1: lot of people out in our suburbs who were born 266 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:49,120 Speaker 1: somewhere else, came to this country to build a life 267 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:53,440 Speaker 1: for themselves and their families, work hard. The whole migrant 268 00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:59,000 Speaker 1: story who are frightened were back in twenty eighteen and 269 00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:04,040 Speaker 1: many of them now frightened of youth gangs what we're 270 00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:06,920 Speaker 1: going to call youth gangs or gangs that were used 271 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:09,359 Speaker 1: and some of them got older and became gangs that 272 00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:13,000 Speaker 1: are now in their twenties whatever, gangs of young criminals. 273 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:17,000 Speaker 1: And I know this because before this event, I had 274 00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:20,640 Speaker 1: gone out to truck a Nina out in Melbourne's out 275 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:23,520 Speaker 1: of West. Not long ago it was paddocks full of 276 00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:26,960 Speaker 1: rocks and thistles and tiger snakes. And now it's full 277 00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:30,919 Speaker 1: of houses. And the houses are relatively cheap compared with 278 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:34,360 Speaker 1: the eastern suburbs, and so it has attracted a lot 279 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:39,520 Speaker 1: of people who are keen to buy cheaper houses. And 280 00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:42,280 Speaker 1: there I found, in the privacy of their own homes, 281 00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:44,120 Speaker 1: people very friendly, very keen. 282 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:44,920 Speaker 2: To talk about this. 283 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:48,040 Speaker 1: If they took you inside off the street so no 284 00:18:48,119 --> 00:18:50,520 Speaker 1: one could see, they would take you in and talk 285 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:52,520 Speaker 1: to you. And I talked to a range of people. 286 00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:57,920 Speaker 1: I talked to an Indian grandmother, this lovely woman. She'd 287 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:00,520 Speaker 1: moved across there because she saw a chain to buy 288 00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:03,440 Speaker 1: a better house for less money than when she lived 289 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:06,920 Speaker 1: in box Hill or somewhere. And she went out there 290 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:10,200 Speaker 1: and she said, I really regret it now, moving from 291 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:13,840 Speaker 1: where I was. I said why, She said, I'll show 292 00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:15,760 Speaker 1: you why. She just moved the curtains a little bit. 293 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:19,480 Speaker 1: She was quite nervous about the people outside. She moved 294 00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:22,520 Speaker 1: the curtains a bit and said, see. Then they frightened me. 295 00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:27,159 Speaker 1: And these big, tall kids of African appearance, seventeen year 296 00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:31,159 Speaker 1: olds walking home from wherever they'd been, maybe school, maybe not, 297 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:34,359 Speaker 1: don't know where. And she said, I'm scared of them 298 00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:36,840 Speaker 1: because they've caused a lot of trouble around here. You know. 299 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:38,760 Speaker 2: They broke that down the park. 300 00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:40,960 Speaker 1: They had a fight, and then they broke bottles, and 301 00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:43,480 Speaker 1: then they lit a fire, and then they break windows 302 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:46,520 Speaker 1: and whatever, steel cars. And she went through it all, 303 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:51,600 Speaker 1: and she had examples of the alleged atrocities, and we 304 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:53,399 Speaker 1: had a chat, and she gave me a drink of 305 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:55,280 Speaker 1: water because it was a hot day. And it was 306 00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:58,680 Speaker 1: very interesting. And then I went around through a park 307 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:00,920 Speaker 1: where there was a bit of a cleat of youth, 308 00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:03,720 Speaker 1: and I tried to talk to a couple of them. 309 00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:04,720 Speaker 2: I had a bit of a. 310 00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:09,080 Speaker 1: Chat, and they were reasonably sullen and not that communicative, 311 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:11,600 Speaker 1: but that's all right. And then it went over and 312 00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:16,159 Speaker 1: spoke to a group of Chinese students. I would believe 313 00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:18,360 Speaker 1: them to be Chinese students, but they were students who 314 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:21,719 Speaker 1: also worked to make some money to live, so they 315 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:25,439 Speaker 1: worked at markets and things. They fit that sort of 316 00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:31,240 Speaker 1: stereotype Chinese Asian student thing, hard working, polite, careful sort 317 00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:34,600 Speaker 1: of people, very unthreatening. And again they took me into 318 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:37,639 Speaker 1: their house and said, yeah, we're very frightened here because 319 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:39,920 Speaker 1: see out the front of our place, see that where 320 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:42,360 Speaker 1: there's been a fire. And they pointed to the bitchumen 321 00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:45,520 Speaker 1: where somebody had smashed a bottle of some sort of 322 00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:50,399 Speaker 1: accelerant like kerosene or whatever and burnt it and there 323 00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:53,160 Speaker 1: was broken glass and there was a big scorch mark 324 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:57,199 Speaker 1: and who was melted bitchumen right outside their house in 325 00:20:57,240 --> 00:20:59,840 Speaker 1: the middle of the street. And they said, they just 326 00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:02,359 Speaker 1: do stuff like these young guys. 327 00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:02,840 Speaker 2: There's youth. 328 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:07,280 Speaker 1: They wander around, they smash stuff. They're obviously off their 329 00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:12,680 Speaker 1: heads on something, smash stuff, light fires, throw bottles, scare everybody. 330 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:15,080 Speaker 2: We're very scared here. We don't like it here, but. 331 00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:17,719 Speaker 1: We're sort of stuck, and we're very careful when we 332 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:19,520 Speaker 1: go out, and if they're in the street, we don't 333 00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:22,640 Speaker 1: go near them, and so on and so forth. Okay, 334 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:26,639 Speaker 1: there's two examples from Track and Nina. Third example around 335 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:28,640 Speaker 1: the corner, go and find somebody else. Then I find 336 00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:32,040 Speaker 1: sort of Joe Blogs. You know Kevin Smith and his 337 00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:36,560 Speaker 1: wife Maureen who lived there, and they had similar. 338 00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:36,920 Speaker 2: Stories to tell. 339 00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:39,640 Speaker 1: They said, you know, it's pretty rough and the week 340 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:42,280 Speaker 1: Fridays and Saturday nights, it's very ordinary, and we don't 341 00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:45,359 Speaker 1: want our kids out anywhere in the street because of 342 00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:47,960 Speaker 1: the trouble it's caused and all that sort of thing. 343 00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:54,520 Speaker 1: And really everybody in that district was feeling the effects 344 00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:59,600 Speaker 1: of the anti social activities of youth gangs. And I 345 00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:05,080 Speaker 1: don't care what ethnic composition the youth gangs were. What 346 00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:08,439 Speaker 1: they did was making life hard for a whole range 347 00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:12,479 Speaker 1: of people, many of whom were migrants themselves. So this 348 00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:15,560 Speaker 1: is not a race thing. This is just some people 349 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:19,080 Speaker 1: behaving badly and other people being affected by it. Let's 350 00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:21,679 Speaker 1: get that straight. I go to the Q and a 351 00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:26,320 Speaker 1: recording session at Dandy Longtown Hall or wherever it was, 352 00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:31,000 Speaker 1: and I'm in a taxi and there's a taxi driver 353 00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:35,600 Speaker 1: who I would say he was certainly born overseas. I'd 354 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:38,800 Speaker 1: say he was probably Lebanese, or he might have been Greek, 355 00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:40,720 Speaker 1: I can't remember now. And he is a few years 356 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:44,919 Speaker 1: ago and he was probably in his fifties. Abe a 357 00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:48,919 Speaker 1: guy with a house and kids and the whole catastrophe 358 00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:52,560 Speaker 1: and working twelve hours a day. And he's the same thing. 359 00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:55,200 Speaker 1: He said, Oh, these bloody kids, you know, they're always 360 00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:57,919 Speaker 1: causing trouble, and they try and steal taxis and they 361 00:22:57,920 --> 00:22:59,479 Speaker 1: get a fair and then they run away and they 362 00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:02,159 Speaker 1: do this and that, and they make life a misery 363 00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:05,720 Speaker 1: for people like him. So when we go to the 364 00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:08,679 Speaker 1: Q and A recording, I don't hear anybody in the 365 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:12,880 Speaker 1: audience that's you know, the Indian grandmother, the Asian student, 366 00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:16,480 Speaker 1: the Lebanese taxi driver, all the people who had sort 367 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:21,040 Speaker 1: of grievances about youth gangs. They weren't in there having 368 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:24,040 Speaker 1: their say about youth gangs. What we had was all 369 00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:28,520 Speaker 1: these questions prepared by people who were asked to prepare them, 370 00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:32,480 Speaker 1: who are basically preparing bar the odd one bar perhaps 371 00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:36,920 Speaker 1: one Dorothy Dix's, for the purposes of making it look 372 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:42,520 Speaker 1: as if this whole thing is media buzz about youth 373 00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:49,040 Speaker 1: gangs is contrived. It's artificial, it's borderline racist. It's you know, 374 00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:51,960 Speaker 1: the wicked media holding hands with the wicked police to 375 00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:56,800 Speaker 1: pick on really nice people like our lady lawyer here, 376 00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:00,200 Speaker 1: which was a bit rich, really but that's the way 377 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:02,840 Speaker 1: it went, that's the way it was presented. And no 378 00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:08,120 Speaker 1: one there, including myself, apart from one comment I made, 379 00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:12,520 Speaker 1: no one there really felt they could take on City Hall. 380 00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:15,920 Speaker 1: It was a stacked deck. But I will say one thing, 381 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:18,040 Speaker 1: and I did say one thing that night. A few 382 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:21,720 Speaker 1: weeks before this, Peter Dutton, who I think was then 383 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:26,000 Speaker 1: in government, he had been interviewed on Sydney Radio, and 384 00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:27,800 Speaker 1: as happens on Sydney. 385 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:31,080 Speaker 2: Radio, the debate gets fairly basic. 386 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:36,480 Speaker 1: And he had said some sweeping generalization, albeit one based 387 00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:39,520 Speaker 1: on truth, and he said down in Melbourne people are 388 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:43,160 Speaker 1: frightened to go out because of youth gangs, or because 389 00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:47,320 Speaker 1: of African youth gangs or something like that. This created 390 00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:51,280 Speaker 1: a bit of a stir. People, instead of thinking is 391 00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:53,399 Speaker 1: this right or is this wrong, picked him up on 392 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:55,840 Speaker 1: it and said, oh, you know, he'd be wrong. Instead 393 00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:59,159 Speaker 1: of looking at the facts of the matter, whether the 394 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:02,760 Speaker 1: youth gangs would doing this, they wanted to just pot 395 00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:07,240 Speaker 1: Dutton and pot you know, Allen Jones the radio program, 396 00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:11,639 Speaker 1: which is fair enough. But one of the responses that 397 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:18,520 Speaker 1: was made to Dutton's comments on radio was from a 398 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:25,199 Speaker 1: then Supreme Court judge Lex slavery, very well known Victorian judge, former, 399 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:30,720 Speaker 1: very well known criminal barrister, extremely accomplished barrister, very well 400 00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:33,520 Speaker 1: thought of as a barrister, good lawyer. I think he'd 401 00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:36,240 Speaker 1: done his share of prosecutions as well, maybe respect the 402 00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:39,639 Speaker 1: judge as far as I know. But it was I 403 00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:42,800 Speaker 1: think a Saturday night, a Friday night or a Saturday night. 404 00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:47,640 Speaker 1: And when these comments of Peter Dutton's wor aired more widely, 405 00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:52,639 Speaker 1: apparently mister Lazary was sitting in a restaurant or a 406 00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:56,240 Speaker 1: friend's house or somewhere at Mansfield. Now, he wasn't in 407 00:25:56,359 --> 00:26:00,280 Speaker 1: Druga Nina or Werriby or Dandy Nong. Funnily enough, He's 408 00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:03,640 Speaker 1: at a friend's place or a nice, cheeky little restaurant 409 00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:09,520 Speaker 1: in Mansfield, which is the most comfortable, safe, middle class 410 00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:13,480 Speaker 1: town in Australia. Manfield it is the gateway to Melbourne's 411 00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:14,800 Speaker 1: snowfields a buller. 412 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:17,320 Speaker 2: It is where people. 413 00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:20,239 Speaker 1: Pull up in range rovers to fill with fuel and 414 00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:23,040 Speaker 1: to buy a few good bottles of wine before they 415 00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:26,520 Speaker 1: head up the hill to the snowfields that is Mansfield. 416 00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:29,320 Speaker 1: It's a very safe place if you don't fall off 417 00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:32,800 Speaker 1: your snow skis or hit a wombat with your range rover, 418 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:36,399 Speaker 1: or run over a Geelong grammar boy who's at Timbertop. 419 00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:38,600 Speaker 1: If none of those things happen, you are very safe. 420 00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:41,840 Speaker 1: And believe me, Lex Slasury and his friends and his family, 421 00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:45,960 Speaker 1: they were very safe at Mansfield. And so he's tweeted 422 00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:50,080 Speaker 1: a tweet. His comment that he tweeted was breaking. There 423 00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:53,560 Speaker 1: are citizens out in Mansfield tonight and they're not worried. 424 00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:58,040 Speaker 2: Well, gee whizzy, Now that was sharp. It was tart, 425 00:26:58,119 --> 00:26:59,200 Speaker 2: It was sarcastic. 426 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:03,119 Speaker 1: It was sort of funny. I don't think it's funny, 427 00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:06,640 Speaker 1: but some people his ilk would think it was funny. 428 00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:08,440 Speaker 2: No doubt. But it wasn't wise. 429 00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:12,119 Speaker 1: It was very unwise, which is probably why as a 430 00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:15,040 Speaker 1: sitting Supreme Court judge, I think next day he. 431 00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:15,920 Speaker 2: Took that down. 432 00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:19,719 Speaker 1: It disappeared, but too late. The damage you've been done. 433 00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:25,080 Speaker 1: Now have you ever heard such a tone death message? 434 00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:26,720 Speaker 2: This is the sort of. 435 00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:30,320 Speaker 1: Thing that is not going to reassure Indian grandmothers and 436 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:35,120 Speaker 1: Chinese students and Lebanese taxi drivers that everything's okay where 437 00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:35,640 Speaker 1: they live. 438 00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:38,040 Speaker 2: Because Lex Lazri. 439 00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:43,080 Speaker 1: And his group feel safe in Mansfield on a Saturday night, 440 00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:47,680 Speaker 1: It's hardly the point which I'm sure he realized when 441 00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:51,440 Speaker 1: he thought about it later, because he's not a fool. 442 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:55,000 Speaker 1: He's a very clever man, and he probably regretted saying 443 00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:58,080 Speaker 1: that he may not regret the sentiment, but he probably 444 00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:03,520 Speaker 1: regrets expressing it, stingpointing. Six years later, Lex Slattery in 445 00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:07,640 Speaker 1: an interview with that most excellent broadcaster Neil Mitchell, who 446 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:11,040 Speaker 1: I have to admit is a longtime colleague and friend 447 00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:17,280 Speaker 1: of mine from decades ago, Lex Slaztery, he now concedes, 448 00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:23,119 Speaker 1: six years later, that there is a very real threat 449 00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:28,640 Speaker 1: posed by youth crime. Youth crime, I must add, which 450 00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:32,760 Speaker 1: is now migrated from the outer suburbs into affluent areas 451 00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:38,000 Speaker 1: where these tear away kids steal high performance cars and someone. 452 00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:42,920 Speaker 1: In this very frank interview with Neil Mitchell, Lex Slattery 453 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:47,720 Speaker 1: said that youth crime was a quote horrifying problem that 454 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:52,200 Speaker 1: couldn't be ignored and was not diminishing. Now it's not 455 00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:58,280 Speaker 1: that Lex who incidentally plays drums in his band, the 456 00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:02,640 Speaker 1: Lex Pistols. It's not that he is suddenly marching to 457 00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:06,160 Speaker 1: the beat of a different drum. He is still the 458 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:10,800 Speaker 1: same humane lawyer who represented two Australian citizens who were 459 00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:15,920 Speaker 1: executed as part of the Bally nine drug smuggling case. 460 00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:21,000 Speaker 1: Lex Lazrie was one of the Australian lawyers who spent 461 00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:25,600 Speaker 1: a huge amount of time and effort and tears trying 462 00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:28,680 Speaker 1: to help those guys and stop them from being executed, 463 00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:31,080 Speaker 1: which I think is one of the things. 464 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:33,040 Speaker 2: That has greatly affected his life. 465 00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:37,880 Speaker 1: So he's a humane person with good instincts, but doesn't 466 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:42,600 Speaker 1: mean he's always makes the right call on everything. But 467 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:47,520 Speaker 1: it's now clear to him that well meaning libertarians can 468 00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:50,920 Speaker 1: no longer paper over the cracks in the justice system 469 00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:56,680 Speaker 1: that daily and weekly let a procession of young offenders 470 00:29:57,160 --> 00:30:02,040 Speaker 1: run free on bail because magistrates and judges are so 471 00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:05,840 Speaker 1: reluctant to jail them. Now it might be that there 472 00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:08,960 Speaker 1: is no room for all these kids. There's all sorts 473 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:12,560 Speaker 1: of reasons for this, I guess, but I've heard it 474 00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:16,120 Speaker 1: said in the last twenty four hours that the young 475 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:19,920 Speaker 1: fellow that Michael Voss grabbed, the one with the machete, 476 00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:25,400 Speaker 1: allegedly the one who allegedly stolen Mercedes spends or was 477 00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:28,719 Speaker 1: with the person who stole it and who rolled it 478 00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:33,200 Speaker 1: and could have killed a family or anything. It's said 479 00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:37,840 Speaker 1: that that young man has received bail. Now, what do 480 00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:42,240 Speaker 1: you have to do not to be bailed? You steel cars, 481 00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:47,320 Speaker 1: you drive in a culpably dangerous fashion, and you are 482 00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:52,320 Speaker 1: carrying a weapon that is both concealed and is big 483 00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:56,680 Speaker 1: enough to kill somebody. If that is not a reason 484 00:30:57,040 --> 00:31:00,320 Speaker 1: for denying bail, what is What. 485 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:00,880 Speaker 2: Do you have to do? 486 00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:05,920 Speaker 1: Apparently you would have to actually kill somebody. Police are 487 00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:13,120 Speaker 1: still cagey about commenting in this politically charged debate. They're 488 00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:18,760 Speaker 1: still wary of criticism by crime deniers. Crime denies such 489 00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:24,760 Speaker 1: as Victoria's Attorney General Jacqueline Symes, who last year, now 490 00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:29,680 Speaker 1: get this. Last year, Jacqueline Simes scuppered changes to the 491 00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:34,320 Speaker 1: youth's bail reforms that have been proposed and was openly 492 00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:37,240 Speaker 1: dismissive when she was asked about it. She said this, 493 00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:41,520 Speaker 1: I do not want a discussion about a youth crime 494 00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:45,600 Speaker 1: crisis that doesn't exist. That's what she said when she 495 00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:49,240 Speaker 1: was asked about it by a reporter. She then refused 496 00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:51,680 Speaker 1: to say anything else. She said, no, there is no 497 00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:55,240 Speaker 1: youth crime crisis, and I'm not talking in the story. 498 00:31:55,440 --> 00:32:00,640 Speaker 1: Thank you very much, missus Attorney general. With political masters 499 00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:04,480 Speaker 1: like that, it's no wonder that police are careful what 500 00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:10,480 Speaker 1: they say, but at least now their actions speak louder 501 00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:15,920 Speaker 1: than words. Every night, every night, this is out there 502 00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:19,040 Speaker 1: in the suburbs in Melbourne, these police helicopters. I heard 503 00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:22,480 Speaker 1: them last night where I lived. The choppers out there 504 00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:27,200 Speaker 1: are the Dog Squad, Canine Unit, and up to seventy 505 00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:32,360 Speaker 1: officers are tied up trying to catch teenage home invaders 506 00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:38,000 Speaker 1: and car thieves before they actually kill another innocent person 507 00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:42,560 Speaker 1: by running over them or maybe attacking them with a machete. 508 00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:47,840 Speaker 1: These culpable driving fatalities, knife crime, and these paid arsons. 509 00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:50,520 Speaker 1: A lot of these arsons of tobacco shops are in 510 00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:56,280 Speaker 1: fact committed by this same cohort of youth criminals because 511 00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:59,880 Speaker 1: they are mad and bad and stupid and very easy 512 00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:03,080 Speaker 1: to get hold of. And for the price of a 513 00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:07,400 Speaker 1: pair of high end sneakers a few hundred bucks, they 514 00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:11,320 Speaker 1: will steal a car, take a few letters of petrol, 515 00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:14,360 Speaker 1: and go to a tobacco shop or any other venue 516 00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:19,040 Speaker 1: and fire bombit for somebody higher up the organized crime chain. 517 00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:24,719 Speaker 1: That is another reason why it's important that the police 518 00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:29,920 Speaker 1: have the backing and the tools and the judicial backing 519 00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:34,040 Speaker 1: to grab these young offenders and get them locked up 520 00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:37,200 Speaker 1: or off the street so that they aren't out there 521 00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:41,400 Speaker 1: offending and reoffending and reoffending because they are doing very 522 00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:45,520 Speaker 1: dangerous things lunatic high speed chases, armed. 523 00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:47,400 Speaker 2: Ready to fight or kill. 524 00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:54,760 Speaker 1: And committing firebombings that will inevitably kill innocent people. One 525 00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:57,560 Speaker 1: of these firebombs is going to burn down a shop 526 00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:01,840 Speaker 1: with an apartment above it, and we will see little 527 00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:06,560 Speaker 1: children burnt to death because of this absolute terrible stuff. 528 00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:11,279 Speaker 1: And undoubtedly when the police grabbed the person that lit 529 00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:13,960 Speaker 1: the fire that kills the babies, which will happen one day, 530 00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:18,480 Speaker 1: we will find that those people have been arrested before 531 00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:19,320 Speaker 1: and have been. 532 00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:20,040 Speaker 2: Released on bail. 533 00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:24,840 Speaker 1: This is why this issue is important. Things have started 534 00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:28,319 Speaker 1: to change a bit. The reality is so obvious now 535 00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:34,880 Speaker 1: that the fashion has swung around a bit. Even the ABC, 536 00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:40,680 Speaker 1: which in twenty eighteen was so painfully politically correct about this, 537 00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:45,640 Speaker 1: is now starting to cover youth crime as guess what 538 00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:50,799 Speaker 1: legitimate news and current affairs. It's only taken them a 539 00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:56,279 Speaker 1: decade to get around to it. Meanwhile, the police are 540 00:34:56,360 --> 00:35:01,160 Speaker 1: guarded in what they say, but determined in what they do. 541 00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:05,760 Speaker 1: One good point they make, and it's a good point, 542 00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:11,680 Speaker 1: is that youth crime has become an equal opportunity pastime 543 00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:18,680 Speaker 1: in twenty twenty four, Unlike ten years ago, young offenders 544 00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:24,240 Speaker 1: come in all sizes, shapes and races, many of them 545 00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:29,920 Speaker 1: in the same gangs. The fact is many offenders, regardless 546 00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:32,879 Speaker 1: of where their parents might have come from, were born here. 547 00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:37,840 Speaker 1: And there's one veteran cop out there, good friend of 548 00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:42,919 Speaker 1: my colleague, Mark Butler, who is getting sick of demands 549 00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:46,920 Speaker 1: that young offenders be deported. You know, people say, oh, 550 00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:48,879 Speaker 1: why don't they send them back to where they come from, 551 00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:51,319 Speaker 1: and why don't you deport them and all this, and 552 00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:54,000 Speaker 1: this old copper says, well, where do you want me 553 00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:58,399 Speaker 1: to deport them to Casey Hospital because that's where most 554 00:35:58,400 --> 00:35:59,080 Speaker 1: of them were born. 555 00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:01,719 Speaker 2: A lot of these kids that. 556 00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:06,600 Speaker 1: Are causing trouble in twenty twenty four were born right here. 557 00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:08,799 Speaker 2: So let's get used to it. 558 00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:13,920 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. Life and Crimes is a Sunday Herald 559 00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:18,920 Speaker 1: Sun production for true crime Australia. Our producer is Johnty Burton. 560 00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:23,600 Speaker 1: For my columns, features and more, go to Heroldsun dot 561 00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:29,200 Speaker 1: com dot au, forward slash Andrew Rule one word For 562 00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:34,879 Speaker 1: advertising inquiries, go to news podcasts sold at news dot 563 00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:39,600 Speaker 1: com dot au that is all one word news. Podcast's 564 00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:44,520 Speaker 1: sold And if you want further information about this episode, 565 00:36:44,760 --> 00:37:09,759 Speaker 1: links are in the description. E