WEBVTT - What A Great Swerve | Ian Stephens - 925 0:00:01.680 --> 0:00:07.400 She said, it's now never I got fighting in my blood. 0:00:09.039 --> 0:00:12.479 I'm tiff. This is Roll with the Punches and we're 0:00:12.520 --> 0:00:17.119 turning life's hardest hits into wins. Nobody wants to go 0:00:17.200 --> 0:00:20.599 to court, and don't. My friends at test Art Family 0:00:20.680 --> 0:00:25.160 Lawyers know that they offer all forms of alternative dispute resolution. 0:00:25.720 --> 0:00:29.200 Their team of Melbourne family lawyers have extensive experience in 0:00:29.360 --> 0:00:32.960 all areas of family law to facto and same sex couples, 0:00:33.159 --> 0:00:37.320 custody and children, family violence and intervention orders, property settlements 0:00:37.360 --> 0:00:41.680 and financial agreements. Test Art is in your corner, so 0:00:41.840 --> 0:00:45.440 reach out to Mark and the team at www dot 0:00:45.800 --> 0:00:52.879 test Artfamilylawyers dot com dot au A and Stevens my 0:00:53.159 --> 0:00:55.840 new friend. Welcome to Roll with the Punches. 0:00:56.440 --> 0:00:58.960 Nice to be here, Thanks for having me on the show. 0:00:59.840 --> 0:01:03.960 My favorite memories from my recent trip to Queensland and 0:01:04.200 --> 0:01:08.679 three two day conference at the Tea bos the business 0:01:08.680 --> 0:01:09.280 of speaking. 0:01:09.600 --> 0:01:13.319 That's it, The business is speaking. Yeah, seventy to eighty 0:01:13.720 --> 0:01:16.440 speakers in the room. Was it was good fun. 0:01:17.000 --> 0:01:19.840 Like that energy was. I'm addicted to it. It was 0:01:19.959 --> 0:01:22.800 the energy and people in that room for a bunch 0:01:22.840 --> 0:01:27.200 of people that I knew five percent of online. That 0:01:27.280 --> 0:01:29.520 I'd never met in real life. There wasn't I don't 0:01:29.520 --> 0:01:31.399 think there was anyone there I'd met in real life before. 0:01:31.720 --> 0:01:33.840 And I just couldn't believe how much I felt like 0:01:33.920 --> 0:01:37.880 I'd just come home from a high school reunion or 0:01:38.120 --> 0:01:40.880 hang out with my friends that I always hung out with. 0:01:41.440 --> 0:01:44.400 Yeah. Well, a little shout out to Jacqueline Brooker at 0:01:44.400 --> 0:01:47.880 any given Tuesday, who hosted and curated that event. The 0:01:47.920 --> 0:01:51.320 business of speaking, I guess, you know, she really understands 0:01:51.360 --> 0:01:54.040 how to not only put on a party, but also 0:01:54.600 --> 0:01:59.360 the dynamics of either existing speakers or people trying to 0:01:59.440 --> 0:02:02.640 break in. And it's an interesting industry, you know. It's 0:02:03.200 --> 0:02:05.480 to have a tribe of people in the room that 0:02:05.800 --> 0:02:10.040 are on the same page and aligned. Was really great 0:02:10.120 --> 0:02:12.919 because I've got to say to if my family, I've 0:02:12.919 --> 0:02:14.800 been doing this for twenty six years, but really my 0:02:14.880 --> 0:02:19.040 family does not understand what I do. You know, it's 0:02:19.160 --> 0:02:21.560 high level weirdness as far as they concerned. What do 0:02:21.560 --> 0:02:23.840 you mean You're a professional speaker and you make a 0:02:23.880 --> 0:02:26.320 living out of talking? I don't get it. 0:02:26.400 --> 0:02:32.120 So for you, was it the attraction to speaking that 0:02:32.240 --> 0:02:36.320 came or was it the knowledge that you got pushed 0:02:36.440 --> 0:02:38.440 into speaking. How did that evolve? 0:02:39.000 --> 0:02:41.800 Well, if we go back on my journey, I was 0:02:42.000 --> 0:02:44.880 a operations manager in the West Farmers Group over in 0:02:45.040 --> 0:02:48.880 Wa West Farmers Federation Insurance. So I'm a marine bloody 0:02:48.919 --> 0:02:52.800 insurance underwriter by trade, would you believe? So, you know, 0:02:53.400 --> 0:02:57.000 cargoes and ships and boats and in the insurance world. 0:02:57.480 --> 0:03:01.480 But they made me a supervise at a pretty young age. 0:03:01.560 --> 0:03:04.359 And I'll never forget. I went along to a training 0:03:04.440 --> 0:03:09.359 program called PERFORMAX back in like the eighties for leaders. 0:03:09.880 --> 0:03:12.760 Everyone in a supervisory level and above in the West 0:03:12.760 --> 0:03:16.600 Farmers Group had to do this program. And again it 0:03:16.680 --> 0:03:19.839 might sound like high level weirdness, but it's not. While 0:03:19.880 --> 0:03:23.520 I was sitting in that room, honestly, tif there was 0:03:23.639 --> 0:03:26.480 just a quiet whisper. It wasn't like a voice in 0:03:26.520 --> 0:03:29.000 my head, but it was a knowing, like a gut 0:03:29.040 --> 0:03:33.600 feel raw knowing that that's what you're supposed to be doing, 0:03:33.840 --> 0:03:37.600 and that guy out the front facilitating that program, that's 0:03:37.640 --> 0:03:40.400 the sort of thing that that's your calling, that's where 0:03:40.440 --> 0:03:44.040 you should be going. And I'd always enjoyed public speaking 0:03:44.480 --> 0:03:48.160 during my upbringing, so it was kind of a hint 0:03:48.240 --> 0:03:51.680 that that's the direction we need. I need to go 0:03:51.880 --> 0:03:56.200 in with my career. So you know, long story short, 0:03:56.400 --> 0:04:01.119 I said yes to a move east when we acquired 0:04:01.200 --> 0:04:05.120 Federation Insurance that took us Australia wide, because I just 0:04:05.280 --> 0:04:08.800 knew that making a living out of speaking and training, 0:04:08.880 --> 0:04:11.160 if you weren't on the East Coast, where eighty percent 0:04:11.200 --> 0:04:13.560 of the head offices were, you were going to be 0:04:13.600 --> 0:04:16.719 spending a lot of time in aircrafts. And so I 0:04:16.839 --> 0:04:20.359 went east and that kind of I went east with 0:04:20.560 --> 0:04:23.080 West Farmers, but I was I knew and I had 0:04:23.080 --> 0:04:27.440 my eyes open for an opportunity to move into into 0:04:27.480 --> 0:04:31.320 speaking and training. Yeah, so that's kind of my back. 0:04:31.720 --> 0:04:33.279 Do you want to know when I love and I 0:04:33.320 --> 0:04:36.599 fell in love with speaking? Yes, I was a sixteen 0:04:36.680 --> 0:04:40.280 year old at a weekend hockey carnival. We're playing this 0:04:40.360 --> 0:04:44.440 big event. We're down in Esperance in Wa and I 0:04:44.640 --> 0:04:47.440 just after we'd won the final, I happened to be 0:04:47.560 --> 0:04:51.040 off in the lou right, and that's when they selected 0:04:51.080 --> 0:04:53.760 who was going to do the acceptance speech. So who 0:04:53.760 --> 0:04:57.640 got dobbed in? Me? Because I wasn't there to defend myself, right, 0:04:58.200 --> 0:05:01.440 So with three hundred odd people all standing around, I've 0:05:01.440 --> 0:05:04.480 got to give a speech, and I was so nervous 0:05:05.200 --> 0:05:10.279 that I made a little fraudyan slip because we were 0:05:10.320 --> 0:05:14.360 billeted into the ladies' clubrooms. We had our sleeping bags, 0:05:14.600 --> 0:05:16.840 you know, and we kind of just slept in there 0:05:16.920 --> 0:05:19.800 for the long weekend and played all these hockey games. 0:05:20.279 --> 0:05:25.000 But in my nervousness, instead of thanking the ladies for 0:05:25.040 --> 0:05:28.200 the use of their club, I accidentally thanked the club 0:05:28.279 --> 0:05:34.000 for the use of their ladies, And of course that 0:05:34.160 --> 0:05:37.760 got a massive laugh. The audience was very patient tolerant 0:05:37.800 --> 0:05:39.680 with me. I was only sixteen at the time, and 0:05:40.640 --> 0:05:43.960 I kind of got hooked on making an audience laugh. 0:05:44.080 --> 0:05:46.440 And so, yeah, that was my first experience as a 0:05:46.480 --> 0:05:49.640 sixteen year old. So I kind of just was always 0:05:49.720 --> 0:05:52.880 open to opportunity to speak, and that led me into 0:05:53.279 --> 0:05:54.800 the training and development industry. 0:05:55.320 --> 0:05:59.040 It's funny when you look back. I was just thinking then, 0:05:59.080 --> 0:06:02.440 when when when did I start to appreciate it? And 0:06:02.440 --> 0:06:05.960 I think of the moments when my dad, who was 0:06:06.000 --> 0:06:08.640 not a speaker at all. I mean, he did a 0:06:08.640 --> 0:06:10.280 lot of things in his life and none of them 0:06:10.279 --> 0:06:14.480 are on a stage, but he would at family events, 0:06:14.720 --> 0:06:17.919 he would he would give a speech that moved the 0:06:18.000 --> 0:06:20.359 room emotionally and I just couldn't look like I was 0:06:20.440 --> 0:06:23.560 just so moved by and captivated by that. And then 0:06:24.680 --> 0:06:28.880 I remember having a particular boss in when I was 0:06:28.920 --> 0:06:32.160 working in sales of a very small business, a small, 0:06:32.200 --> 0:06:36.080 little print business, and he would talk to us. He 0:06:36.120 --> 0:06:38.640 would give give it, not obviously not on a stage, 0:06:38.680 --> 0:06:43.000 but he would he would talk to us in meetings, 0:06:43.480 --> 0:06:47.960 and I just was really I was intrigued and captivated 0:06:48.000 --> 0:06:53.919 by his ability to motivate and shift and I don't know, 0:06:54.160 --> 0:06:57.720 impact people and influence people with his words, and I 0:06:57.760 --> 0:07:00.040 was I was terrified. 0:07:00.600 --> 0:07:04.920 Yeah, well, you know it's still the case that most 0:07:04.920 --> 0:07:08.039 people say they'd rather die than speak in public. But 0:07:08.800 --> 0:07:11.840 you know, I always tend to point out if I 0:07:12.440 --> 0:07:15.160 push you towards the edge of a cliff and say 0:07:15.680 --> 0:07:18.600 I'll either push you over or you deliver a brilliant 0:07:18.600 --> 0:07:21.680 speech right now, people will step up and speak beautifully, 0:07:21.720 --> 0:07:27.200 I reckon. So it's a skill too, and your dad 0:07:27.280 --> 0:07:31.960 obviously had that naturally, just to engage and shift people's 0:07:32.000 --> 0:07:36.120 thinking or stir them emotionally. And that's the power of 0:07:36.160 --> 0:07:40.920 a great speaker. They're able to They're able people can 0:07:41.000 --> 0:07:44.880 see their own stories within your story. You might be 0:07:44.960 --> 0:07:48.840 telling your story, but I was taught by a mentor 0:07:48.920 --> 0:07:52.520 to always turn the mirror on the audience. So a 0:07:52.520 --> 0:07:55.120 lot of speakers when they're speaking can only you know. 0:07:55.480 --> 0:07:58.200 It's like they're holding their own mirror up and are 0:07:58.280 --> 0:08:03.440 seeing themselves as they tell their story. But occasionally, at 0:08:03.480 --> 0:08:05.920 the end of the story, the idea is you turn 0:08:06.040 --> 0:08:09.520 the mirror by saying something like, you know, when was 0:08:09.560 --> 0:08:13.000 the last time you got King hit by life? As 0:08:13.040 --> 0:08:16.400 you're telling your story, but that statement turns the mirror. 0:08:16.480 --> 0:08:19.480 That question turns the mirror and the audience. You can 0:08:19.520 --> 0:08:21.840 see them kind of their eyes go up left right, 0:08:22.040 --> 0:08:24.560 they thinking about a time when they got King hit 0:08:24.600 --> 0:08:28.440 by life, And so suddenly they're relating to you, and 0:08:28.480 --> 0:08:33.200 you're becoming very relatable. So I love it. It's just 0:08:33.240 --> 0:08:36.520 an opportunity to engage and tell stories in a way 0:08:36.559 --> 0:08:39.160 that inspires and shifts people's mindset. 0:08:39.840 --> 0:08:42.600 Do you think there's anyone when we're not going to 0:08:42.600 --> 0:08:46.240 speak about speaking forever? Then we just happened to curious? 0:08:46.280 --> 0:08:50.480 Do you think that there's a type of person who 0:08:51.080 --> 0:08:55.320 wants to be a speaker but doesn't that can't Is 0:08:55.320 --> 0:08:59.240 there something unteachable there some people that are unteachable in 0:08:59.280 --> 0:09:02.480 that space, can we teach all people to be a 0:09:02.520 --> 0:09:03.280 great speaker? 0:09:04.160 --> 0:09:06.960 I believe the latter. I mean, I'm an educator and 0:09:07.000 --> 0:09:10.800 a trainer, and I'm also a master practitioner in NLP 0:09:10.880 --> 0:09:14.040 and ne're a linguistic programming So I'm a great believer 0:09:14.160 --> 0:09:20.560 in the fluidity and flexibility of people's limiting beliefs and 0:09:20.640 --> 0:09:24.400 their ability to learn new skills. So I think anyone 0:09:24.600 --> 0:09:29.080 can learn to speak better and more effectively. A lot 0:09:29.080 --> 0:09:31.800 of people just have to get that limiting belief out 0:09:31.800 --> 0:09:34.960 of the way that I hate speaking or I'm not 0:09:35.160 --> 0:09:38.640 good at it. And so you know, when I'm coaching 0:09:38.679 --> 0:09:40.959 people in this space, it's how do you change their 0:09:41.000 --> 0:09:44.640 neurology and they're limiting belief first, and then equip them 0:09:44.640 --> 0:09:48.319 with some skills and talents to actually do the delivery 0:09:48.320 --> 0:09:49.240 and the speaking better. 0:09:50.200 --> 0:09:55.760 Yeah. Yeah, Now, when we were answering about you coming 0:09:55.800 --> 0:09:59.280 on this show, tell me how a bit of a 0:09:59.320 --> 0:10:00.160 story to tell? 0:10:01.160 --> 0:10:04.400 Well, yeah, I mean, you know, roll with the punches. 0:10:04.480 --> 0:10:07.160 I mean, it's it's just a good fit to me 0:10:07.520 --> 0:10:12.120 because a will will swing back to the metaphor and 0:10:12.200 --> 0:10:15.040 the prop I use a lot in keynotes. It's up 0:10:15.080 --> 0:10:18.960 on stage is my portable speedball stand. So like the 0:10:19.040 --> 0:10:22.040 Rocky Ball. If anyone's ever you know the Rockies, they're 0:10:22.120 --> 0:10:25.160 hitting his little ball on the platform, I take one 0:10:25.240 --> 0:10:28.120 of them with me and I use it as a 0:10:28.160 --> 0:10:33.160 metaphor of not only mastery, but of bouncing forward from 0:10:33.400 --> 0:10:37.000 the punches that knock you around in life. But you know, 0:10:37.080 --> 0:10:41.920 I've also I've I've been through a couple of King 0:10:42.040 --> 0:10:45.600 hits that I can I can tell you about because 0:10:45.600 --> 0:10:48.800 it's I really do believe it's it's how you bounce 0:10:49.000 --> 0:10:51.679 back from things that happen to you that shapes character. 0:10:53.040 --> 0:10:55.760 You know, I often think of a lot of people 0:10:55.800 --> 0:10:59.240 can fondly remember, you know, old Mickey, Rocky's coach in 0:10:59.280 --> 0:11:02.199 the first couple of movies. Yeah, well, you know, I 0:11:02.520 --> 0:11:06.200 can always remember him saying to to Rocky, it's like, 0:11:06.480 --> 0:11:08.160 you know, and I won't try and do his voice, 0:11:08.200 --> 0:11:11.480 but you know, bounce back. It's it's it's getting back 0:11:11.559 --> 0:11:16.160 up off the off the canvas. That's what shapes character. 0:11:17.160 --> 0:11:21.000 And the famous R Lee I always quote him, he said, 0:11:21.080 --> 0:11:24.920 champions just get up and they go one more round, 0:11:25.520 --> 0:11:29.319 and that's it. That's what distinguishes the you know, the 0:11:30.280 --> 0:11:33.680 best and the great from just the good is they 0:11:33.720 --> 0:11:37.959 get up and they go one more round. So maybe 0:11:37.960 --> 0:11:40.240 we'll swing back to the speedball in a while. But 0:11:41.040 --> 0:11:45.199 when I when I first moved into the speaking industry, 0:11:46.679 --> 0:11:49.960 I came across a guy called Roger Anthony who had 0:11:50.000 --> 0:11:54.400 a program called Crocodiles not wader lilies. Right, you can't 0:11:54.440 --> 0:11:58.200 make this stuff up, right, Crocodiles not water lilies. But 0:11:58.280 --> 0:12:02.679 it was a metaphor for as humans, we're supposed to 0:12:02.720 --> 0:12:07.120 be like the crocodile. If we leave the aggressive nature 0:12:07.160 --> 0:12:11.479 of a crococide, a croc's a prehistoric survivor. It's outlived 0:12:11.520 --> 0:12:14.120 just about everything on this planet. It's left over from 0:12:14.120 --> 0:12:18.040 the dinosaur era. About a cockroach is probably the only 0:12:18.080 --> 0:12:21.840 thing that's been around longer, right, And that's because a 0:12:21.920 --> 0:12:26.079 while the old croc is actually going through a five 0:12:26.160 --> 0:12:30.240 step process to ensure it gets its prey. So if 0:12:30.280 --> 0:12:33.920 we set aside the aggressive nature, it's actually following this 0:12:34.240 --> 0:12:38.719 systemic structure to increase the chances that it gets the 0:12:39.720 --> 0:12:42.440 weak will tobeast that's coming down to the watering hole 0:12:42.520 --> 0:12:47.280 every day. Right, So a croc relaxes, then it observes 0:12:47.559 --> 0:12:52.040 its environment around it, Then it starts to manage and 0:12:53.559 --> 0:12:57.560 have a lot of patience and then it acts right. 0:12:57.600 --> 0:13:02.520 So Roger Anthony intour of crocodiles not orderly. So the 0:13:02.559 --> 0:13:07.640 principal character in his leadership program and self leadership program 0:13:07.920 --> 0:13:14.160 was called Romper the crocodile Ronpa Relax, observe, manage patients, 0:13:14.280 --> 0:13:17.600 and then act right. And if you think about well, 0:13:17.679 --> 0:13:20.559 let me ask you the question, tif, where do most 0:13:20.600 --> 0:13:24.240 people in life do you think start on that process 0:13:24.320 --> 0:13:26.800 where you know, do they relax, do they observe, do 0:13:26.880 --> 0:13:29.440 they manage to have patients? Or do they go straight 0:13:29.480 --> 0:13:30.920 to act? What's the norm? 0:13:32.240 --> 0:13:33.600 Go straight to act? Mate? 0:13:33.840 --> 0:13:37.200 Absolutely? I mean you know, I've asked that question in 0:13:37.320 --> 0:13:41.280 twenty nine countries now and it's always overwhelmingly we just 0:13:41.480 --> 0:13:46.920 act and then we react to the results that we cause. 0:13:47.520 --> 0:13:50.600 So I find a lot of people go straight to act, 0:13:50.760 --> 0:13:52.880 then they go back and observe what they've done, and 0:13:52.920 --> 0:13:54.560 then they try and manage their way out of it. 0:13:55.000 --> 0:13:58.000 So we've got it all stuffed up. And if we 0:13:58.040 --> 0:14:02.079 were more like a crocodile, I'd achieve more of our outcomes. 0:14:02.480 --> 0:14:06.400 And the analogy is be a crocodile, not a water lily, 0:14:06.440 --> 0:14:10.560 because water lilies look pretty, they act pretty, but they're 0:14:10.559 --> 0:14:14.720 floating around subject to the winds and tides, so they're 0:14:14.720 --> 0:14:18.000 reacting to everything that's going on around them in their environment. 0:14:18.040 --> 0:14:21.680 Where the wily old croc is very purposeful and deliberate 0:14:22.160 --> 0:14:26.320 in landing its outcome, so be crocodiles not water lilies. 0:14:26.760 --> 0:14:33.720 And yeah, fascinating program. And in fact, when I first 0:14:33.880 --> 0:14:40.520 arrived into Victoria managing West Farmer's Federation Insurance, everyone about 0:14:40.520 --> 0:14:43.880 eighty of my employees had all done this crocodiles not 0:14:43.920 --> 0:14:46.880 waterer lilies program. And the thing that amazed me tip 0:14:47.120 --> 0:14:50.200 was the stuff had stuck. I haven't been on many 0:14:50.280 --> 0:14:53.720 training programs where like five years later this stuff has 0:14:53.840 --> 0:14:57.800 stuck and people are using the principles. So here I 0:14:57.840 --> 0:15:00.720 am the new manager. I've got my team of six 0:15:00.840 --> 0:15:04.240 reporting to me. We're considering closing down one of the 0:15:04.280 --> 0:15:09.320 branches in Victoria. And then Neil Trestata goes, well, I 0:15:09.400 --> 0:15:12.000 think we need to romper this, and I've gone, what 0:15:13.160 --> 0:15:15.600 you know, And then they taught me the romper principle, 0:15:15.600 --> 0:15:19.400 which made sense, and that got my interest up to 0:15:19.440 --> 0:15:23.680 go experience this crocodiles my orderlilies program that everyone had 0:15:23.760 --> 0:15:27.520 done and understand the language and the tools and the concepts, 0:15:28.000 --> 0:15:30.880 and Tiff, by the end of day one, you know, 0:15:31.000 --> 0:15:34.080 keep in mind, I've moved east looking for an opportunity 0:15:34.120 --> 0:15:36.720 to get into speaking and training. And at the end 0:15:36.760 --> 0:15:40.360 of day one, having met Roger and experiencing his program, 0:15:40.760 --> 0:15:43.480 I started quizzing him about what was his vision for 0:15:43.520 --> 0:15:45.720 this and where was he going with it and does 0:15:45.760 --> 0:15:48.640 he need some help. By the end of day two, 0:15:48.840 --> 0:15:53.640 which happened a fortnight later, where in in depth conversations 0:15:53.680 --> 0:15:56.000 about the role I might be able to play for him. 0:15:56.560 --> 0:15:59.120 And by the end of day three it was a 0:15:59.200 --> 0:16:02.760 day every fort Note over six weeks, I had made 0:16:02.800 --> 0:16:05.240 the decision that I'm leaving the West Farmers Group and 0:16:05.240 --> 0:16:10.360 I'm going to join Roger. And I was kind of 0:16:11.280 --> 0:16:14.440 I'm a planner, I'm out of insurance, I'm risk averse, 0:16:14.520 --> 0:16:17.360 so it's like, I'm going to resign next April. This 0:16:17.560 --> 0:16:20.960 was like October and then I'll start working for you, Roger. 0:16:21.080 --> 0:16:24.360 But a month later it was like, you know, Tiff, 0:16:24.400 --> 0:16:26.400 when you've already made a decision to move on in 0:16:26.400 --> 0:16:30.640 your life, your mind's already gone, but your body's still 0:16:30.680 --> 0:16:33.520 trudging into work each day. And I just couldn't do it, 0:16:33.600 --> 0:16:36.560 so I handed in my resignation and like six weeks later, 0:16:36.920 --> 0:16:40.720 I was working for Roger. And that started an interesting 0:16:40.880 --> 0:16:45.960 journey because like three months later, I'm facilitating the odd 0:16:46.000 --> 0:16:52.960 training program. I'm maybe doing the occasional keynote. I'm loving 0:16:53.000 --> 0:16:55.600 life now, living what I felt was my calling and 0:16:55.640 --> 0:16:59.400 my purpose. But I was also dead broke because I've 0:16:59.440 --> 0:17:02.560 got a young family and there's still all this money 0:17:02.680 --> 0:17:04.879 going out in the back door and now there's not 0:17:05.000 --> 0:17:07.760 much coming in the front door for a while. And 0:17:07.840 --> 0:17:11.840 so you know, that was an interesting time when you 0:17:11.880 --> 0:17:16.080 can't pay your bills and your wife with two young kids, 0:17:16.160 --> 0:17:18.760 is going, hey, how are we feeding the kids? This week? 0:17:18.800 --> 0:17:24.400 The f post has declined again? Right, And I don't 0:17:24.400 --> 0:17:26.760 know if any of your listeners can relate to this, 0:17:26.920 --> 0:17:31.600 but if have you ever noticed that financial stress tends 0:17:31.640 --> 0:17:37.199 to magnify any cracks that exist in a relationship. Yeah, 0:17:37.240 --> 0:17:40.480 and long story short, my ten year marriage just crumbled 0:17:40.520 --> 0:17:44.920 and fell apart. So that was like a massive king hit, 0:17:46.160 --> 0:17:49.919 you know. Go on six months, I'm in business for 0:17:50.000 --> 0:17:54.800 myself now, contracting to Roger and crocodiles not water lilies. 0:17:55.840 --> 0:18:00.760 I've fallen behind on my GST the ATO clean after 0:18:01.119 --> 0:18:06.680 a personal tax bill, you know, and and I joke 0:18:06.760 --> 0:18:09.679 with people that I was literally the four d's. I 0:18:09.760 --> 0:18:13.520 was now divorced. I was you know, I was desperate, 0:18:13.960 --> 0:18:20.439 I was depressed, and I was a demon supporter. It 0:18:20.640 --> 0:18:24.719 just doesn't get worse than that, doesn't drop it unless 0:18:24.720 --> 0:18:27.200 you follow Collingwood. No, no, no, let's let's not go there. 0:18:27.280 --> 0:18:30.280 Let's let's not get into all that. But you know, 0:18:30.359 --> 0:18:35.000 that's when I was really down and out. That that 0:18:35.000 --> 0:18:37.160 that that period of my life. I kind of look 0:18:37.280 --> 0:18:41.200 back on it now and there was a couple of 0:18:41.920 --> 0:18:46.359 principles that I've learned from the CROCS program that I've 0:18:46.480 --> 0:18:49.800 used my entire life. Whenever, you know, whenever life has 0:18:49.880 --> 0:18:54.399 king hit me, I've managed to lean on them to 0:18:53.760 --> 0:18:58.160 to get me through it. Yeah. So that was probably 0:18:58.200 --> 0:19:00.840 the first time I literally had to roll with the 0:19:00.880 --> 0:19:04.040 punchers and they were coming thick and fast, you know, 0:19:04.240 --> 0:19:06.040 and I was thinking, do I need to go back 0:19:06.080 --> 0:19:10.280 into the insurance industry. I didn't want to. I'd put 0:19:10.320 --> 0:19:13.080 my feet in the water of speaking and training. I 0:19:13.320 --> 0:19:17.240 jumped in head first in the deep end, and I 0:19:17.280 --> 0:19:20.560 loved it, and I didn't want to have to go 0:19:20.680 --> 0:19:25.560 back to a salary position in an insurance company. That 0:19:25.640 --> 0:19:30.600 felt like death to me. But what do you do? 0:19:31.640 --> 0:19:35.359 I put my resume out there and I started that process. 0:19:35.440 --> 0:19:40.320 But luckily I spotted an ad in the paper that 0:19:40.480 --> 0:19:43.080 literally it was one of those ticked the boxes ads. 0:19:43.840 --> 0:19:47.480 You know, do you have experience in managing a sales team? Yes? 0:19:48.760 --> 0:19:52.359 Would you like to be an international speaker and trainer? Yes? 0:19:53.359 --> 0:19:56.880 And I'm going wow, It's like wow, and so yeah, 0:19:56.920 --> 0:19:59.879 another long story short. I ended up for three years 0:20:00.080 --> 0:20:03.159 working with a company called Marcureing International, who were a 0:20:03.200 --> 0:20:07.600 big sales training company in forty three countries around the world. 0:20:08.040 --> 0:20:12.160 And that's where I really cut my teeth on learning 0:20:12.240 --> 0:20:19.240 the art of training facilitation. But I also after three years, 0:20:19.480 --> 0:20:23.840 I was the longest serving consultant. This was a big 0:20:23.880 --> 0:20:28.080 international consulting firm and they burned their people quickly, so 0:20:28.400 --> 0:20:31.800 you know, two years, I'm the longest serving consultant. So 0:20:32.600 --> 0:20:35.800 I made a decision pretty early. I'm going to learn 0:20:35.920 --> 0:20:37.800 from this, but then I'm going to go out on 0:20:37.800 --> 0:20:41.840 my own a second time and with some knowledge this 0:20:41.960 --> 0:20:47.440 time and do it right, which I did. In ninety nine, 0:20:47.560 --> 0:20:50.880 I left and went out on my own again. Yeah, 0:20:50.920 --> 0:20:53.920 so there you go. There's some of the times I've 0:20:54.000 --> 0:20:55.000 rolled with the punctures. 0:20:55.440 --> 0:21:00.000 Did you start building that before you left or did you? 0:21:00.520 --> 0:21:00.960 Could you not? 0:21:01.119 --> 0:21:04.280 Yes? No, Well, and from an integrity point of view, 0:21:04.280 --> 0:21:07.000 I think I built up like six weeks leave that 0:21:07.080 --> 0:21:13.160 they owed me. So I handed in my resignation and said, 0:21:13.480 --> 0:21:17.520 I'm taking you know, you've got three months notice, but 0:21:17.720 --> 0:21:21.000 I'm also I'm going to take my six weeks leave now. 0:21:21.560 --> 0:21:26.800 And I literally I didn't approach any of their clients. 0:21:26.840 --> 0:21:28.800 I went out and I saw one hundred and fifty 0:21:28.880 --> 0:21:33.479 organizations across Melbourne who and I prospected and I just 0:21:33.600 --> 0:21:38.680 I did the activity and I ended up eventually doing 0:21:38.760 --> 0:21:43.680 business with about three that had definite training and development needs. 0:21:44.280 --> 0:21:47.439 And so this time I was smarter. I actually locked 0:21:47.480 --> 0:21:50.679 in a contract with each of those three to do 0:21:50.880 --> 0:21:54.600 twenty days of training and development for them across the 0:21:54.640 --> 0:21:58.000 course of the year. And so I locked myself in 0:21:58.040 --> 0:22:02.560 for sixty days with three, so three companies times twenty days. 0:22:03.000 --> 0:22:05.399 But that left me the rest of the year to 0:22:05.560 --> 0:22:09.360 get out there and keep prospecting and build my pipeline. 0:22:09.480 --> 0:22:13.000 And yeah, so that's kind of how I got into 0:22:13.000 --> 0:22:14.639 it the second time. 0:22:15.280 --> 0:22:18.600 What did you learn? What was the most important things 0:22:18.600 --> 0:22:22.719 you learned in the working for a company an organization 0:22:23.280 --> 0:22:24.919 that made it work the second time? 0:22:25.840 --> 0:22:29.680 Well, it actually it actually didn't, Tiff. I learned very 0:22:29.800 --> 0:22:34.440 quickly that I never want to go back to working 0:22:34.600 --> 0:22:40.800 for Demand or the woman again. I reckon. Within six months. 0:22:40.840 --> 0:22:44.639 I knew that because there was a particular incident with 0:22:44.840 --> 0:22:49.320 the manager that I reported to, and it was like, Okay, 0:22:49.520 --> 0:22:53.439 I can't afford to walk out here today, but you 0:22:53.720 --> 0:22:57.879 have snapped rapport with me so badly. I don't trust 0:22:58.000 --> 0:23:03.240 you anymore. Our values aren't aligned. I'm going to learn 0:23:03.359 --> 0:23:06.760 from this experience and set myself up to go back 0:23:06.800 --> 0:23:09.600 out on my own, but do it differently, in a 0:23:10.440 --> 0:23:14.360 smarter way this time. Yeah. So, I think the greatest 0:23:14.440 --> 0:23:17.320 lesson I got from going back in and working for 0:23:17.680 --> 0:23:20.880 our corporate in the training industry was that I never 0:23:20.920 --> 0:23:23.679 want to report to anyone again for the rest of 0:23:23.720 --> 0:23:26.800 my experience on this planet and for the last you know, 0:23:26.920 --> 0:23:31.400 since since I left them in ninety nine, I haven't. 0:23:31.600 --> 0:23:33.800 Yeah, I feel that in my bones. 0:23:34.200 --> 0:23:38.880 Yeah, but it comes with a new set of pressures. 0:23:39.400 --> 0:23:43.840 You are responsible for the revenue you create, You're responsible 0:23:43.880 --> 0:23:47.760 for the sales activity you do. You're responsible for everything. 0:23:47.840 --> 0:23:51.399 And if you've got any small business owners that are 0:23:51.480 --> 0:23:54.800 learning listening to this, it's like you've got to have 0:23:54.960 --> 0:23:58.720 so many multiple hats that you put on take off 0:23:58.720 --> 0:24:02.959 every single day. Right, I'm our sales manager, I'm our 0:24:03.000 --> 0:24:05.600 business development manager. I have to put the hat on 0:24:05.680 --> 0:24:08.360 of being a facilitator and a trainer and sometimes I've 0:24:08.359 --> 0:24:12.200 got to put my keynote speaker hat on. The other 0:24:12.280 --> 0:24:15.560 times it's my administration manager hat. I mean, you name 0:24:15.600 --> 0:24:18.000 it advertising manager year. You've got to do it all 0:24:18.280 --> 0:24:20.760 when you're in business for yourself. So I think it 0:24:20.880 --> 0:24:22.200 takes a bit of resilience. 0:24:23.320 --> 0:24:27.119 Which is strongest hat and what's your least strongest hat? 0:24:28.720 --> 0:24:33.840 I think financial acumen would be my weakest. So I 0:24:35.160 --> 0:24:39.000 learned early have a good accountant. Have you know, someone 0:24:39.080 --> 0:24:41.840 handling the book keeping who knows what they're doing in 0:24:41.880 --> 0:24:47.280 that space, because I shouldn't be doing that type of work, right, 0:24:47.920 --> 0:24:50.439 And it's probably only in the last five years that 0:24:50.480 --> 0:24:54.159 we've got to the point where I now like I 0:24:54.280 --> 0:24:57.120 made a decision, Karina, and I made a decision there's 0:24:57.119 --> 0:25:00.159 only three things I actually should be doing. And this 0:25:00.240 --> 0:25:05.520 to come across as egotistical, but speaking training delivering is 0:25:05.600 --> 0:25:11.119