WEBVTT - Part 1: The road to Yoorrook

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<v Speaker 1>Just a warning before we get started. Aboriginal and Torres

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<v Speaker 1>Strait Islander listeners should be aware that today's episode features

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<v Speaker 1>the voices of people who have died. This episode is

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<v Speaker 1>the first part in a two part series.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome Uncle Jack, Thank you.

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<v Speaker 3>We are delighted and honored the Duke to join us today.

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<v Speaker 4>One of the first people that we heard from in

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<v Speaker 4>the Commission was the late great Uncle Jack Charles as well.

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<v Speaker 2>I am a well known nun Collingwood Vitroy Bloke, Melvernion,

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<v Speaker 2>and I am self proclaimed in my community as the

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<v Speaker 2>local goodcha man law man feed afoot of the Smeth

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<v Speaker 2>Street Strip.

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<v Speaker 1>In April twenty twenty two, Uncle Jack Charles told the

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<v Speaker 1>story of his life to the York Justice Commission. Uncle

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<v Speaker 1>Jack is known and loved for his work as an actor,

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<v Speaker 1>but the role most important to him, the one that

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<v Speaker 1>he focused on when he gave testimony at Yuruk, was

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<v Speaker 1>his role within his own community.

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<v Speaker 2>And that's my job as an elder. We've lived experiences

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<v Speaker 2>to be yet a source for people to gravitate towards

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<v Speaker 2>in their own journey of coming out of their own

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<v Speaker 2>heart of darkness, and it's been.

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<v Speaker 4>Proven sadly it was probably unless there's something else. I'm

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<v Speaker 4>not aware of his final public act as an elder

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<v Speaker 4>because he died shortly afterwards.

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<v Speaker 1>Over four years, thousands of Victorians shared their stories with

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<v Speaker 1>the York Justice Commission. It had all the powers of

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<v Speaker 1>a royal commission and was the first truth telling process

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<v Speaker 1>of its kind in Australian history. Yesterday its findings were

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<v Speaker 1>handed to the Victorian government. My co host Daniel James,

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<v Speaker 1>has spent the last seven months documenting Europe for the

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<v Speaker 1>official report, Truth Be Told. It's a powerful, unflinching account

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<v Speaker 1>of Victoria's past and present. I'm Ruby Jones. This is

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<v Speaker 1>seven AM today. Daniel James on how knowing the truth

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<v Speaker 1>of the past sets us up for a better future.

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<v Speaker 1>It's Wednesday, July two. Daniel, thank you for being here.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's talk about Uncle Jack's testimony and how it's set

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<v Speaker 1>up the stage for how Europe unfolded from there.

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<v Speaker 4>Of course, his testimony was very moving. He talked about

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<v Speaker 4>the impacts of being a member of the Stolen Generation.

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<v Speaker 2>Being born under the Assimilation Policy EL babies was supposed

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<v Speaker 2>to be taken from the hospital bed from their mothers

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<v Speaker 2>and then placed into babies' homes City Mission over in

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<v Speaker 2>Brunswick managed to keep me for flaw months and I

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<v Speaker 2>was discovered with her a dasher's paddock.

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<v Speaker 4>And so he was put into a children's home where

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<v Speaker 4>he was abused both physically and sexually. How that led

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<v Speaker 4>to a life of petty crime, all.

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<v Speaker 2>B eggs and pain. The woes of existing, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>with a heavy addiction and having to do, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>burglaries to do to support the funding of the drugs

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<v Speaker 2>and etc. Came to a stop, a full stop.

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<v Speaker 4>But also the great thing about his hearing was that

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<v Speaker 4>he was able to you know, quote unquote redeem himself.

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<v Speaker 4>He was able to make something of himself in the

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<v Speaker 4>face of all of that. And it wasn't until very

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<v Speaker 4>very late in life that he was actually able to

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<v Speaker 4>discover who his father was.

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<v Speaker 2>But Edinburgh re Gardens, I was given this side below

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<v Speaker 2>and I opened it up and there was Hilton Hamilton

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<v Speaker 2>Bosh and leaning on a walking stick which he carved himself.

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<v Speaker 2>And the irony there struck me between you know, and

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<v Speaker 2>the eyes that when I found my mum at eighteen

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<v Speaker 2>on the air whichever between mill I mean, what else?

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<v Speaker 2>He was carving walking sticks, snakes around walking sticks.

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<v Speaker 4>And that was a process that thankfully became a circular

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<v Speaker 4>moment for him and I'm so glad that he got

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<v Speaker 4>to realize exactly who he was and where he was

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<v Speaker 4>from before he passed away, and Uruk assisted with that, and.

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<v Speaker 1>Uncle Jack was one of thousands of people who gave

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<v Speaker 1>testimony to the commission this process. It's been a long

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<v Speaker 1>time coming. So tell me where the story of rock starts.

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<v Speaker 4>The story actually really starts at the point of first

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<v Speaker 4>contact between European settlers and First Nations people really in

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<v Speaker 4>the western districts of Victoria, and what Euruk has been

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<v Speaker 4>doing is trying to investigate the fallout from that point

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<v Speaker 4>and everything that's followed subsequently. I think one thing that's

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<v Speaker 4>really important to note is that Victoria was probably the

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<v Speaker 4>heaviest populated section of this land mass that we now

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<v Speaker 4>call Australia at the time of invasion, and so there

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<v Speaker 4>has been a plethora of political movements here. Europe is

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<v Speaker 4>a wamba wamba word for truth, and it is something

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<v Speaker 4>that is the combination of a movement that has been

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<v Speaker 4>going for generations and generations. It started at a place

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<v Speaker 4>called cornderk on or Andrey Country near Hillsville. There was

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<v Speaker 4>a mission, one of the early missions that were established

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<v Speaker 4>once Melbourne was settled, and the residents of Coron Dirk,

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<v Speaker 4>headed by a fellow called Uncle William Barrick, protested not

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<v Speaker 4>only their conditions but the colonies I guess reluctance to

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<v Speaker 4>let them play a full and vital role in the

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<v Speaker 4>life of the colony and the life of their local

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<v Speaker 4>communities by participating in the economic life of where they

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<v Speaker 4>were situated. They wanted to grow hops to feed some

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<v Speaker 4>of the emerging buries that were being established around the place,

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<v Speaker 4>so they were quite entrepreneurial in that way. But they

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<v Speaker 4>didn't get what they want, so they petitioned the colony

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<v Speaker 4>and they eventually marched from Cronder to what is now

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<v Speaker 4>State Parliament to protest their rights, their land rights, their

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<v Speaker 4>rights as citizens.

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<v Speaker 2>Quite a new media people saying I don't like the

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<v Speaker 2>black man, but he's then blood to live in a

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<v Speaker 2>black man's country.

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<v Speaker 1>All the things.

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<v Speaker 3>I am calling a crowbie of all the leaders in

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<v Speaker 3>New South Wales to send a petition to the King

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<v Speaker 3>in an endeavor to improve our conditions.

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<v Speaker 4>And there's been a series of movements since then, and

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<v Speaker 4>in many ways Europe is a major, major chapter in

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<v Speaker 4>that story.

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<v Speaker 1>And so at what point would you say that those

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<v Speaker 1>protests and political movements really crystal into what we're seeing now.

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<v Speaker 4>I would say probably around the early seventies there was

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<v Speaker 4>a very strong push to establish some of our own organizations.

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<v Speaker 4>So we've got things like the Victorian Original Legal Service,

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<v Speaker 4>which was the first community controlled organization in Victoria, the

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<v Speaker 4>second in Australia, that, in combination with the establishment of

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<v Speaker 4>health services and cooperatives around the state, really enabled Aboriginal

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<v Speaker 4>people to talk about the politics of our plight, to

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<v Speaker 4>talk about ways of moving forward across portfolio areas like

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<v Speaker 4>education and health. So the steps towards treaty in particular

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<v Speaker 4>really sort of started around that point. It was seen

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<v Speaker 4>as a way of not only improving outcomes for Aboriginal people,

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<v Speaker 4>but also moving towards things like land rights and native title,

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<v Speaker 4>which was all to come much later on. But if

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<v Speaker 4>you were to look at how that actually crystallized into

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<v Speaker 4>the very sort of jagged path we're on now towards

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<v Speaker 4>truth and treaty, the formal process of Europe would have

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<v Speaker 4>started about seven years ago once the First People's Assembly

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<v Speaker 4>of Victoria had been formally established, because it was them

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<v Speaker 4>who called for.

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<v Speaker 1>It, and so they're calling for this commission. How does

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<v Speaker 1>the eurok Justice Commission become a reality?

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<v Speaker 4>Though? So, the First People's Assembly, in one of its

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<v Speaker 4>first acts, called for a truth telling process.

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<v Speaker 5>Victoria is one step closer to a landmark treaty with

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<v Speaker 5>its First People's Indigenous leaders delivered a stirring address on

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<v Speaker 5>the floor of Parliament marking laws to create a special authority.

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<v Speaker 4>Their view is, and I think it's a view that's

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<v Speaker 4>proven around the world in many ways, is that you

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<v Speaker 4>can't have a treaty process without a truth telling process.

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<v Speaker 4>And so what they were doing was calling for the

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<v Speaker 4>first truth telling process to be formalized in Australia in

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<v Speaker 4>which we could actually hear for the first time from

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<v Speaker 4>a first people's slash Aboriginal people's perspective on what happened.

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<v Speaker 2>And here there's no escape in the harsh reality that

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<v Speaker 2>actional people have suffered immensely at the hands of the

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<v Speaker 2>Victorian state.

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<v Speaker 4>And only once the broader Victorian public and the broader

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<v Speaker 4>Australian public understands what happened here can you actually start

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<v Speaker 4>treating negotiations in good faith.

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<v Speaker 1>We cannot move forward using the same systems that have

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<v Speaker 1>been used against us and that have held us back.

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<v Speaker 4>So they were the ones that called for it, and

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<v Speaker 4>the Victorian government, led by Dan Andrews at the time,

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<v Speaker 4>to their credit, said yes, you can have that.

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<v Speaker 1>For far too long we've had white belts telling our

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<v Speaker 1>first nations, Victorians how it ought to be and I

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<v Speaker 1>don't intend to do that.

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<v Speaker 4>And so one of the major challenges in the first

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<v Speaker 4>place is okay, well, what does this look like, what

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<v Speaker 4>powers is it given, and what do we want from it.

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<v Speaker 4>A tremendous amount of work went into that, both from

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<v Speaker 4>the First People's Assembly but also through the establishment of

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<v Speaker 4>the Commission itself, which had to work out what it was,

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<v Speaker 4>areas it would explore and what outcomes it was looking

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<v Speaker 4>to achieve from exploring those areas.

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<v Speaker 1>And I want to talk more about those parts of

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<v Speaker 1>the Commission, but as it moved forward and established itself

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<v Speaker 1>with their other challenges.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, there were a number of challenges. Major one was

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<v Speaker 4>this has never happened before in Australia, It's happened in

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<v Speaker 4>other parts of the world. How much does it cost,

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<v Speaker 4>who do you get to chair it, what areas does

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<v Speaker 4>it look at, where do you house it? I mean,

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<v Speaker 4>one of the things that I discovered, to my astonishment,

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<v Speaker 4>was when the Commission was looking for premises to house itself,

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<v Speaker 4>it meant what one would call sort of passive resistance.

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<v Speaker 4>They would get to a point where they were close

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<v Speaker 4>to negotiating a lease, and then once the landlord sort

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<v Speaker 4>of discovered that it was an organization run by and

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<v Speaker 4>for Aboriginal people, those lease would sort of fail to materialize.

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<v Speaker 4>So it wasn't until the Victorian government, by chance happened

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<v Speaker 4>to be building a new government building in Collingwood that

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<v Speaker 4>the Commission was actually able to house itself and create

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<v Speaker 4>an environment where people coming in and providing testimony before

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<v Speaker 4>the Commission could actually feel safe. One of the things

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<v Speaker 4>that seemed to take a while for a number of

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<v Speaker 4>people to get their head around was that the Commission

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<v Speaker 4>had all the powers of a royal commission. So a

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<v Speaker 4>royal commission can request any document that at once and

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<v Speaker 4>get a hold of that document, they can summoned people

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<v Speaker 4>to appear before the commissioner androde testimony. One of the

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<v Speaker 4>early hurdles was a tardiness from the Victorian bureaucracy in

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<v Speaker 4>terms of getting the thousands of documents that commissioners and

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<v Speaker 4>the Commission itself had actually asked for and it got

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<v Speaker 4>to a point where they had to actually all a

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<v Speaker 4>direction's hearing for non compliance.

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<v Speaker 3>So the state's response over the past few weeks to

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<v Speaker 3>Yurook's request for documents to me demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding

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<v Speaker 3>of the truth telling process.

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<v Speaker 4>They've brought all of these senior public servants in and

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<v Speaker 4>the people that were in charge of these systems and said, listen,

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<v Speaker 4>we're telling you nicely now that this is a royal commission.

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<v Speaker 4>When we ask for something, you give it to us.

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<v Speaker 6>The state recognizes that compliance dates for recent notices have

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<v Speaker 6>passed oologizers to the Commission for the delay in providing

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<v Speaker 6>responses to the notices, and.

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<v Speaker 4>Was from that point on that I think not only

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<v Speaker 4>did the bureaucracy start taking Europe seriously, interested parties within

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<v Speaker 4>the Victorian community realized that this was very much the

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<v Speaker 4>real deal when it comes to inquiries.

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<v Speaker 1>Coming up after the break. The Formidable woman chosen to

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<v Speaker 1>lead Europe.

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<v Speaker 3>Racism and inequality affect First peoples in almost every aspect

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<v Speaker 3>of our lives, from schooling and work, to getting housing

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<v Speaker 3>and to accessing healthcare.

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<v Speaker 1>Daniel let's talk more about the direction that the Commission

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<v Speaker 1>took once it was established. Tell me about the chair.

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<v Speaker 4>Well, the chair is a remarkable woman, Auntie Eleanor burke Am.

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<v Speaker 4>She is a Wagaya Wamba Wamba elder.

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<v Speaker 3>There is an unbroken line of injustice which runs from

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<v Speaker 3>the original theft of our lands and waters until today.

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<v Speaker 4>She is someone who has dedicated her entire life to

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<v Speaker 4>Aboriginal people, one of the first Aboriginal public servants in Canberra.

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<v Speaker 3>The truth is we cannot secure justice for First peoples

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<v Speaker 3>without transforming the laws and policies which by design continue

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<v Speaker 3>to disadvantage us.

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<v Speaker 4>She is now eighty two years old, so she would

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<v Speaker 4>have been in her late seventies when she was called

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<v Speaker 4>upon to be the chair of this commission. Her main

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<v Speaker 4>area of interest has been education and research, and so

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<v Speaker 4>she's a professor and director of the Aboriginal Research Institute

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<v Speaker 4>at the University of South Australia. She's been inducted into

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<v Speaker 4>the Victorian Honor Roll for women here in Victoria and

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<v Speaker 4>also into the Aboriginal Honor Role. She's someone that is

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<v Speaker 4>universally respected and has been tireless in her efforts. I

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<v Speaker 4>couldn't think of a better chairperson to undertake this role

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<v Speaker 4>because it not only is still a resolve, it requires

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<v Speaker 4>a truckload of empathy and has required a truckload of

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<v Speaker 4>strengths as well. To hear some of the things that

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<v Speaker 4>these commissioners have heard over the last four or five

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<v Speaker 4>years has been amazing.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, tell me more about that. What have they heard?

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<v Speaker 1>What has stuck with you?

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, there are a number of massacres that took place

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<v Speaker 4>that I didn't know about that came to light. Those

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<v Speaker 4>sort of revelations were profound and very moving and very distressing.

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<v Speaker 4>But the hardest thing from my perspective, and I would

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<v Speaker 4>dare say from a commissioner's perspective, would be hearing from

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<v Speaker 4>members of the Stolen Generation in particular, and hearing their

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<v Speaker 4>first person accounts of what happened to them or that

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<v Speaker 4>they missed out on the clinical brutality of the state

0:15:30.040 --> 0:15:33.400
<v Speaker 4>taking children away from the clutters of their mothers and fathers.

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<v Speaker 4>So hearing what happened to people in the first person

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<v Speaker 4>with the most moving moments from a people who had

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<v Speaker 4>had horrific ordeals with the child protection system, either as

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<v Speaker 4>a parent or as a child, seeing their bravery in

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<v Speaker 4>terms of fronting the commission, which is something that so

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<v Speaker 4>many original people don't want to do because why would

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<v Speaker 4>they trust systems, Why would they trust another inquiry? Why

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<v Speaker 4>would they trust a royal commission? Given what's happened previously?

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<v Speaker 1>And as you say, truth telling is important because how

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<v Speaker 1>do you attempt to change things if you haven't even

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<v Speaker 1>identified what was wrong? But what else changes when the

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<v Speaker 1>truth goes on record like.

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<v Speaker 4>This, Well, one of the things that does change, and

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<v Speaker 4>it's something that requires a little bit of lateral thinking,

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<v Speaker 4>but shame and guilt no longer become a concern. So

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<v Speaker 4>the truth has been told. We've heard from Indigenous people,

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<v Speaker 4>We've heard from descendants of some of the early landholders

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<v Speaker 4>in Victoria. We've heard how they are descendants of people

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<v Speaker 4>that were complicit in the attempt to genocide of aoriginal

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<v Speaker 4>people in this place we now call Victoria. And there

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<v Speaker 4>were no ramifications for them, there was no pushback. They

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<v Speaker 4>were heard respectfully and openly. And so the idea of

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<v Speaker 4>being able to then move forward with the truth means

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<v Speaker 4>that not only does it empower First Nations people, but

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<v Speaker 4>it also lifts the veil of shame and guilt on

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<v Speaker 4>non Aboriginal people who have been involved in some of

0:17:10.240 --> 0:17:13.720
<v Speaker 4>the things that have harmed us most. And we don't

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<v Speaker 4>have to keep revisiting the past because the past has

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<v Speaker 4>now been written and is now part of the public record,

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<v Speaker 4>and it's there for all to see. So what has

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<v Speaker 4>happened in many ways in the past is not our business,

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<v Speaker 4>but what happens next is and that's what telling the

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<v Speaker 4>truth has enabled us to do.

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you for listening to this episode of seven Am.

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<v Speaker 1>It's the first part in a two part series about

0:17:39.200 --> 0:17:42.159
<v Speaker 1>the York Justice Commission. Part two is available in a

0:17:42.200 --> 0:17:43.280
<v Speaker 1>seven AM feed now