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Speaker 1: Approache Production.

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Speaker 2: It's eleven thirty pm on Boxing Day in twenty twenty two.

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Speaker 2: Emma and her husband Lee have watched a movie and

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Speaker 2: they're fast asleep in their North Lake's home, just north

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Speaker 2: of Brisbane City. The two teenage girls are in their rooms.

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Speaker 2: They've got security cameras inside the house and some in

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Speaker 2: the driveway. There's one camera that can see the front door.

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Speaker 2: Emma wakes up first because they're two dogs are going wild,

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Speaker 2: barking really loud. She nudges Lee. He wakes up to

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Speaker 2: the glare of Emma's phone. She's looking at the security

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Speaker 2: cameras and she notices that the front door is wide open.

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Speaker 3: And then you know, I see her on her phone

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Speaker 3: and she was like front doors open. And I didn't

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Speaker 3: I didn't even cross my mind that like someone was

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Speaker 3: in the house. But I just want to get up

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Speaker 3: to shut the door, to make sure no one was

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Speaker 3: going to get house, because we had had issues at

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Speaker 3: least once or twice where you know, the door was

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Speaker 3: pushed to But you know, I suppose within the blink

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Speaker 3: of an eye timething, that's the thought that goes through

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Speaker 3: your mind, like just get up and close the door.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, sort of, you know, because my side had

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Speaker 3: the been I suppose it's slightly closer than them, as

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Speaker 3: I suppose, but I think we both like rushed to

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Speaker 3: the door, and it wasn't if she laid in bed.

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Speaker 3: We both rushed to the door, and you know, I

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Speaker 3: opened up the bedroom door, and yeah, there was like

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Speaker 3: this guy sort of standing right in front of the

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Speaker 3: bedroom door. And then I remember seeing the second guy.

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Speaker 3: He was in our living room where our sofa is,

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Speaker 3: and then he was then walking back towards the hallway

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Speaker 3: or then coming back towards the hallway. So I don't know,

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Speaker 3: it's one of those things where you don't really think

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Speaker 3: about what you're doing. I don't think you really to

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Speaker 3: a risk assessment. What am I to do now? And

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Speaker 3: you know, you just sort of you act on impulse,

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Speaker 3: I think, and you know, you just sort of remember

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Speaker 3: trying to get the the one who's immediately by the

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Speaker 3: door like out of the house. And did you see

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Speaker 3: a weapon?

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Speaker 4: Was there a weapon?

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Speaker 3: Not? You? No, No, Like I didn't even know till

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Speaker 3: long after that that there were like you know, obviously

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Speaker 3: they had a knife or obviously if I didn't even

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Speaker 3: know too A long time after that Emma had been hurt,

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Speaker 3: you know, so you know, you were just pushed him

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Speaker 3: out of the door, and there was a bit of

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Speaker 3: a scuffle by the door. And then I remember thinking

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Speaker 3: at the time, and I don't know why, but I

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Speaker 3: remember the think time, like, you know, I could just

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Speaker 3: get the guy down, you know, you know, on the

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Speaker 3: ground and in a headlock or something like, then I

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Speaker 3: can sort of just hold him there till the police

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Speaker 3: get there and they can over. Like I said, I

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Speaker 3: didn't know he had a knife, you know, and I

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Speaker 3: just knew that like if I give him a headlock,

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Speaker 3: I could I could keep him there. And I didn't

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Speaker 3: I didn't know who's gonna be faking with the police

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Speaker 3: and there, you know, and and so then I sort

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Speaker 3: of still asleep. I thought they were yeah, yeah, So

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Speaker 3: like I thought that would be sort of come out

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Speaker 3: of the door. I didn't try to sort of hang

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Speaker 3: off like around his and then I think I sort

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Speaker 3: of slipped and then as I went onto the ground,

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Speaker 3: and then he sort of then kicked me twice, maybe

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Speaker 3: three times, I think at least like twice in her face.

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Speaker 3: And then I sort of got up and then onto

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Speaker 3: my knees and then like I sort of looked to

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Speaker 3: my right where my truck was, and then I think

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Speaker 3: like one of the guys that maybe like run into

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Speaker 3: it or something, because it looked like he was like

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Speaker 3: getting up and then like running away. I think that's

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Speaker 3: what I saw. And at the time, remember like seeing

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Speaker 3: Emma standing and she was like sited to you know,

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Speaker 3: sort of in front of me as such. And then

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Speaker 3: I see like Cassie at the door and I was like,

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Speaker 3: I can't get my phone and she's like where is it.

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Speaker 3: I'm like about half o'clock, you know. It was. It

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Speaker 3: was a brief conversation like that, and the next thing

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Speaker 3: I know, I looked at him and she was like this,

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Speaker 3: you know, she'd moved a bit, but like she was

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Speaker 3: like in front of me, like laying on the floor

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Speaker 3: with her back to me, you know, you know, and yeah,

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Speaker 3: that sort of position and feetal position. I suppose you

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Speaker 3: and I lay on our side. And it was a

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Speaker 3: bit of a shop to like see her there because

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Speaker 3: I was like, you know, second a guy, she was

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Speaker 3: like standing up but standing in front of me there,

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Speaker 3: And next thing she's lay on the floor and like,

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Speaker 3: I think I've got my phone, Casey come back. With

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Speaker 3: the phone, and you know, she was like, mummy's bleeding,

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Speaker 3: and I remember, like, what do you mean she just bleeding?

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Speaker 3: And then it was over. I sort of kneeled over

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Speaker 3: looked at her left side and you can see the

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Speaker 3: left side of the ninety, just like a glad and

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Speaker 3: then that panic sets in. And then but there was

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Speaker 3: a like diagonally to left of us, there was a

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Speaker 3: guy like putting some stuff in his car or whatever.

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Speaker 3: And it was one of those things where you're like,

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Speaker 3: did you have to see what happened? You know, like

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Speaker 3: this commotion is are happening? You know, So I'm shouting

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Speaker 3: out here, trying to whistle and shout him, and he

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Speaker 3: sort of came over. And then I think I sort

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Speaker 3: of later learned. I think that like being our neighbor

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Speaker 3: diagonally right of us, he came down as well. And

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Speaker 3: I think they may have been on their balcony at

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Speaker 3: the time or something, so maybe they hurt me shout

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Speaker 3: help or something. I'm not not really too sure. And

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Speaker 3: like he was there as well, and then you know,

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Speaker 3: I was speaking of like Chipple zero.

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Speaker 2: At the time and.

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Speaker 3: Trying to tell them what's happened, and you know, but

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Speaker 3: then they ask what then questions are, you know, like

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Speaker 3: name address, you know, what's happened?

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Speaker 5: Can you feel or hear any breathing.

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Speaker 3: You know, like she's bleeding, I don't know whatever. IM Like,

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Speaker 3: they were like, is she breathing? I'm like, now, I

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Speaker 3: don't know, like you know, you're trying to check, and

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Speaker 3: I'm like, just get here, you know, like and and yeah,

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Speaker 3: just I suppose in some ways, like I don't know

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Speaker 3: how long it did take to get there, but it

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Speaker 3: just felt like forever for them to sort of turn

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Speaker 3: up really And but then I since found out that,

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Speaker 3: like I think what happens is that, like, you know,

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Speaker 3: the I think that the operator person is then maybe

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Speaker 3: reporting back to the police, and I think they sort

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Speaker 3: of have to make sure that the paramedics are not

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Speaker 3: coming to an area where it's potentially still like armed people,

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Speaker 3: you know. So I think the police have to turn

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Speaker 3: up and potentially make you know, either come with the

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Speaker 3: paramedics to make sure they're escorted or whatever, or make

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Speaker 3: sure there's still no one in the area. And so yeah,

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Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure I see it. Like I could be wrong,

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Speaker 3: but I'm pretty sure there was a cop I turned

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Speaker 3: up and he just went and was like skidded in

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Speaker 3: position and then started doing like a CPR when Emma

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Speaker 3: and I was like, you haven't even checked that, you know,

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Speaker 3: but you're doing it like CPR. But I suppose maybe

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Speaker 3: they just know that like it's not good or whatever,

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Speaker 3: you know. So but I think there was like because

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Speaker 3: like when after I was off the phone to the police,

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Speaker 3: oh sorry, the triple zero, I suppose I felt like

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Speaker 3: I needed a phone someone. So I was trying to

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Speaker 3: phone my friends, like you know, I'm friend Chris. He

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Speaker 3: lives by the King with his wife, and I tried

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Speaker 3: phoning him, like you know, four times or something, but

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Speaker 3: you know, he didn't pick up, and trying to try

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Speaker 3: his wife Liz as well, but like she didn't pick

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Speaker 3: up as well, you know, you know, so then yeah,

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Speaker 3: yeah again. Then like I quickly like scroll from my phone,

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Speaker 3: and then my friend Dan who lives around the corner,

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Speaker 3: like I found him, and you know, I remember like

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Speaker 3: shouting down and down the factors get around here, Garanny now,

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Speaker 3: you know, and you know, like he's looking up. He

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Speaker 3: was up and he's like I am running around the

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Speaker 3: corner to you know, like all these enbulances and police

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Speaker 3: and everyone, and so.

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Speaker 5: He thought he was coming into a house where like

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Speaker 5: literally everyone who was like dead my dad.

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Speaker 3: But then like when he came through the hallway because

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Speaker 3: Katy and I were sent to go back a bag

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Speaker 3: that night, so he ran through our room, I was like, scary,

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Speaker 3: but he was going to open the door to like

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Speaker 3: I was like, well yeah, and he's like why does

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Speaker 3: it goes? And then he sees us and just runs

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Speaker 3: over and us and what happened? And so my friend

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Speaker 3: like said, like Chris, like he must have realized he

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Speaker 3: missed some of some calls and afterwards reflected about this,

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Speaker 3: and he was like, I don't like we know it

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Speaker 3: all his phone anyway that you know, lots time we

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Speaker 3: miss each other or whatever. But he was like, it's

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Speaker 3: running bizarre feeling me phonely like four times on you

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Speaker 3: know anyway, but especially on box evening. He was like,

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Speaker 3: I think something's up. So he came around and it

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Speaker 3: was apparently armed police, and uh, They're like who are you?

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Speaker 3: And he had just saying and I think he was

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Speaker 3: allowed to come through to the house, but I think

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Speaker 3: they told him what had happened to him.

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Speaker 5: So Chris Jones rushed to the house on Monday night

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Speaker 5: after a panicked call from his best night lead just devastating.

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Speaker 6: I mean, you see Lee and the girls who are

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Speaker 6: with us at the moment. I don't think you need

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Speaker 6: to think too hard how they are.

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Speaker 3: It's just not sunk in.

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Speaker 4: Do you know that Emma's pasted or do you or they.

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Speaker 3: Just because I'm in the paramedics were there. They obviously

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Speaker 3: had some sort of mobile machine and cocked her up,

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Speaker 3: and initially she didn't have a pulse, but then you know,

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Speaker 3: they were doing like CPR. They got to they got

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Speaker 3: a pulse back and then because I was bleeding and

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Speaker 3: I'm like arm in my back and to yeah, you

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Speaker 3: didn't realize no, like it wasn't then because I just

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Speaker 3: had my underwear, you know, and I didn't realize I

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Speaker 3: was even bleaning anything. I suppose a gentlemen is pumping.

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Speaker 3: And I think it was like skun that that said,

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Speaker 3: like you know, because she stood behind me and she

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Speaker 3: was like, you're bleeding, and I'm like, am I what?

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Speaker 3: You know? Then you sort of feel the trickle of

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Speaker 3: blinding run down my back, and I'm like and then

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Speaker 3: you start thinking, like, you know, is I'm a dad?

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Speaker 3: Then you think like I can't die, I can't leave

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Speaker 3: the kids at the orphane, And there's that sort of

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Speaker 3: thought goes through your head. So but then the ambulance

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Speaker 3: people want to get me in the ambulance and were

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Speaker 3: you know, hitting me up with like morphine and give

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Speaker 3: me some white fentanyl or something or whatever. And I

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Speaker 3: don't think that really done a great deal really.

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Speaker 2: So while Lee is being rushed to hospital, he's been

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Speaker 2: told that the ambulance that is with Emma would be

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Speaker 2: following close by and they would meet at the hospital.

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Speaker 2: At least two teenage girls are at the house. They've

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Speaker 2: been told to pack a bag by a neighbor because

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Speaker 2: they wouldn't be staying in the house that night.

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Speaker 3: So when I was in the ambulance, I quickly sort

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Speaker 3: of phoned Emma's brother and because somebody like midday for

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Speaker 3: them Boxing day, so trying to get out as much

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Speaker 3: I could about what happened, and then the police waped

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Speaker 3: my phone, so I had to hand my phone over

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Speaker 3: and then yeah, I got taken off the hospital saying.

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Speaker 1: Emma's family is flying in from the UK tonight. Will

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Speaker 1: North Lake's residents have launched a petition calling for repeat

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Speaker 1: offenders not to be granted bail and.

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Speaker 4: The kids so go with someone to her friends or something.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well they went with Dan and Cat around to

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Speaker 3: their house. Like I said, I saw three houses around

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Speaker 3: the corner really, so it was funny really, but like

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Speaker 3: I didn't really In hindsight, I suppose I didn't really

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Speaker 3: think about them too much because I don't know, there

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Speaker 3: was just like a lot going on, like with myself,

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Speaker 3: what with them, I suppose I suppose made me the

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Speaker 3: back of mind. I knew that they were sort of okay,

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Speaker 3: they were Dan, I knew, you know, we've known each

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Speaker 3: other for like years, So I suppose I just knew

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Speaker 3: that they were in safe fans, you know.

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Speaker 2: So Lee's wife Emma died on the way to hospital

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Speaker 2: in the ambulance after paramedics tried to save a life

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Speaker 2: on their front lawn. Lee's in a hospital waiting to

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Speaker 2: find out when you can go and see her. At

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Speaker 2: this stage, he doesn't know that she hasn't made it.

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Speaker 3: I don't even know how long I was there. I'm

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Speaker 3: guessing I was probably there at least a couple of

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Speaker 3: hours because they were checking my back out and get

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Speaker 3: me to do like seating scans or whatever. And then

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Speaker 3: it's funny really because like you know, initially that there

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Speaker 3: was heaps of heaps of people in the room and

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Speaker 3: you know, nurses and adopted or whatever, and then then

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Speaker 3: they all just sort of just seemed to left, and

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Speaker 3: then it was just then myself and this one other

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Speaker 3: nurse and I went a bit sort of quiet, and

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Speaker 3: we were sort of just chatting, and and then this

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Speaker 3: this guy for another room come through, the older guy

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Speaker 3: wearing all sort of black. I don't know what he was.

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Speaker 3: Maybe he was trained to sort tell people those sort

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Speaker 3: of things. And yeah, they comes through and says, you know,

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Speaker 3: and see here, and I think, and you know, they

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Speaker 3: tried doing everything they could, but they were unable to

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Speaker 3: say that, you know. And then that sort of shock

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Speaker 3: sets in, I suppose, because you're like, she was live

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Speaker 3: the last time I see it. I was told she

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Speaker 3: was going to be following me, Like what do you

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Speaker 3: mean she hasn't made it, you know. And then yeah,

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Speaker 3: so I tried getting off the bed, and then you know,

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Speaker 3: the nurse sort of helped me go through the sort

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Speaker 3: of cemma. And then I don't even think I spent

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Speaker 3: a couple of minutes away her. Really I spent a

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Speaker 3: short amount of time with her, and I spoke to

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Speaker 3: her and and I was like, right, I've got to

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Speaker 3: get out of here to get back to the kids,

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Speaker 3: you know. So I think at that time, I just

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Speaker 3: like I had some shorts with me, you know, I

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Speaker 3: got Castie to getting me some shorts before I left.

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Speaker 3: I did have a T shirt, so that's right, but

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Speaker 3: I cut that off, so I didn't even have a

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Speaker 3: T shirt to put on. And you know I've said

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Speaker 3: this before, but there was a couple of police now

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Speaker 3: I think from my Brisbane city or something, and I

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Speaker 3: said to them that, you know, because in my mind,

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Speaker 3: in Lee's world, I was like, someone's going to bring

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Speaker 3: me back to North Lakes in a in an ambulance

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Speaker 3: that you know, I was like, how am I getting hime?

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Speaker 3: Like I don't have a fair I can't find a

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Speaker 3: new bit because I would have done that. I would

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Speaker 3: have done anything to get back. And they sort of

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Speaker 3: undernared a bit really because because at first, like I thought,

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Speaker 3: maybe I've just read the situation wrong, like like you

286
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Speaker 3: don't want to take me something, Because even the nurse

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Speaker 3: was like, if these guys don't take it, I'll go

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Speaker 3: and get my car. And I'll take you, you know,

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Speaker 3: and eventually they were like, oh, I can come with us,

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Speaker 3: and then you know, it took me back to North Lakes,

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Speaker 3: but well, actually they didn't. They took me to a

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Speaker 3: Redcliffe and then like this this LG then sort of

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Speaker 3: took my statement and I was like, where are the

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Speaker 3: kids and they were like, oh, you know, they're going

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Speaker 3: to come here, and they never turned up on a

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Speaker 3: police station, which was like really frustrating that, you know.

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Speaker 3: And I had like a blanket because I was shivering

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Speaker 3: or whatever, and it just felt like ages we were

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Speaker 3: doing this like buddy interviewing it, you know, in this statement,

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Speaker 3: and I just want to get home to the kids

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Speaker 3: that you know. And then it must have been getting

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Speaker 3: like five point thirty six sometimes round about that, and

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Speaker 3: then they were like, oh, you know, we're done.

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Speaker 4: And then did the kids know by this stage the

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Speaker 4: demera had passed no because this scream yeah.

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Speaker 3: Because the kids had like an iPhone each and she

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Speaker 3: put like a screenlike on their phones. I think it

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Speaker 3: was from maybe ten ten thirty till maybe like sort

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Speaker 3: of six six thirty in the more and they couldn't

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Speaker 3: use their phones, you know. She didn't want being on

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Speaker 3: the phones during the night and that sort of stuff.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, they couldn't be on their phone, so they

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Speaker 3: they eventually I found out that they because they were

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Speaker 3: like they set it down a cat. So they then

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Speaker 3: got taken Chris turned up and he took them with

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Speaker 3: leaves back to their house. And so yeah, anyway, like

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Speaker 3: I when I was at the police station, like when

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Speaker 3: I got my phone and threw my watch, I had

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Speaker 3: a message come through from my niece in the UK,

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Speaker 3: just saying that, you know, her, Emma's brother and Emma's

321
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Speaker 3: mum were on the way to the airport, but there

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Speaker 3: was a police guy. I said to this woman doing

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Speaker 3: the you know statement, She said, I'll take him back

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Speaker 3: to his house or friends out or whatever and then

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Speaker 3: gives a call when you're done. So she took me

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Speaker 3: back to my friend's house and then I sort of

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Speaker 3: got out of the car, and you know, because I

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Speaker 3: thought that maybe my friends had said to the kids

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Speaker 3: of like what happened, but like enough they hadn't. And

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Speaker 3: I've gotten out of the car. I had a quick

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Speaker 3: tack to my friend and he said, like kids inside,

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Speaker 3: oh blah blah blah whatever, And I turned around to

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Speaker 3: look at the police woman because I thought she was

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Speaker 3: going to come in with us and she'd just gone,

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Speaker 3: and I'm like, thanks for that, thanks for the support,

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Speaker 3: you know, and I just thought that, you know, she

337
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Speaker 3: was going to come in and it sounds weird, but

338
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Speaker 3: you know, hold my hand, make a coffee, do something,

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Speaker 3: you know, help me talk to the kids. But there

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Speaker 3: was no support there, so yeah, so I had to

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Speaker 3: go in and I didn't really tell the kids too

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Speaker 3: much about what happened really, and they were like, oh,

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Speaker 3: I think the scarlet was like, where's mommy because she

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Speaker 3: was looking behind me, thinking that, you know, she was

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Speaker 3: going to be with me. But I was like, oh,

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Speaker 3: you know, we need to talk. And I think I

347
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Speaker 3: said she didn't make it, and yeah, kids to a

348
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Speaker 3: grind in my arm.

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Speaker 4: So that's got to be, I'm guessing, one of the

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Speaker 4: hardest things you've ever had to do.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And then, like you, I think for a while,

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Speaker 3: I didn't really cry. And then even when I was

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Speaker 3: in the hospital with Emma after then told me what happened,

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Speaker 3: I don't I may have done for a short time,

355
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Speaker 3: but I don't know I even cried then. And then

356
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Speaker 3: later on you think, like, what is wrong? With me

357
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Speaker 3: not crying. You know, my wife face has been murdered

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Speaker 3: and I'm not crying, and and even talking to the girls,

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Speaker 3: you know, like we ended up like in a pile

360
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Speaker 3: on the floor and you know, like you're hugging them,

361
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Speaker 3: and I don't remember like crying too much then, and

362
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Speaker 3: you know you just think like what is ron me?

363
00:18:06,120 --> 00:18:11,521
Speaker 3: Like you know, and and then and then yeah, like

364
00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:13,520
Speaker 3: reality sets in a bit more and then it's all

365
00:18:13,561 --> 00:18:15,640
Speaker 3: over the news because like I said, like it was

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Speaker 3: like probably six thirty or something, and the kids got

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Speaker 3: access to their phones and by that time it's all

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Speaker 3: over like social media.

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Speaker 1: And a woman has been killed in a horrifying home

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Speaker 1: invasion in Brisbane's North Forty one year old Emma Lovell

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Speaker 1: was allegedly stabbed while fighting off her at seventeen year

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Speaker 1: old boys been charged like murder. Tracked down by please

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Speaker 1: Dogs to a nearby site early on Tuesday, especially like the.

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Speaker 3: Like all North Lakes community page, and I think I

375
00:18:46,921 --> 00:18:48,280
Speaker 3: was looking on the heir and they were just like

376
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Speaker 3: someone that and we used to do ironing for. And

377
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Speaker 3: she'd put on the on the page something about like

378
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Speaker 3: you know, my friend lives up that road and I've

379
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Speaker 3: tried doing it a welfare check, and you know, she

380
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Speaker 3: had an I'm just repy.

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Speaker 4: So when do you hear that they've arrested the two boys.

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Speaker 3: I'm not really too sure. To be honest, like I

383
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Speaker 3: put it, would have said it was like later on

384
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Speaker 3: that day. I think later on that day, like the

385
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Speaker 3: police came around and a couple of detectives there, So

386
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Speaker 3: I think I would have found out there, But I'm

387
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Speaker 3: not extightly too sure, but it was probably the next day.

388
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Speaker 3: I'm guessing, you know, a few hours later I was told,

389
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Speaker 3: because I do know since then, I have found out

390
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Speaker 3: that within you know, three or four hours, they'd got

391
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Speaker 3: them at the house around the car from us. You know.

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Speaker 7: Unfortunately, police were called to the address late last night.

393
00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:53,321
Speaker 7: I confronted with a horrific scene. Paramedics did all they

394
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Speaker 7: possibly put but unfortunately the lady passed away and she

395
00:19:56,721 --> 00:20:00,961
Speaker 7: had An investigation was commenced and through some very good

396
00:20:00,961 --> 00:20:05,840
Speaker 7: investigative skills demonstrated by the detectives and many to locate

397
00:20:06,681 --> 00:20:11,321
Speaker 7: four persons who were taken into custody. I can say

398
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Speaker 7: at this point in time that two of those people,

399
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Speaker 7: a seventeen year old boyfriend Zunia and a seventeen year

400
00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:21,361
Speaker 7: old boy from Holland Park will be charged later today

401
00:20:22,120 --> 00:20:25,801
Speaker 7: with murder, attempted murder and breaking into.

402
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Speaker 5: It's heartbreaking to think that my best friend took her

403
00:20:35,961 --> 00:20:41,400
Speaker 5: last breath because somebody decided they needed what was in

404
00:20:41,441 --> 00:20:44,801
Speaker 5: their house. But they'd bought this house for them to

405
00:20:44,921 --> 00:20:47,240
Speaker 5: keep their children in, to keep their children safe in,

406
00:20:48,281 --> 00:20:55,840
Speaker 5: and just took her last breath and died in what

407
00:20:56,001 --> 00:21:00,441
Speaker 5: is such a heroic act trying to keep them keep

408
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Speaker 5: her baby safe.

409
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Speaker 7: Message to the community is this is a tub of

410
00:21:07,241 --> 00:21:11,441
Speaker 7: sad day that someone's life has been taken in this way.

411
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Speaker 7: I still struggle to understand why these types of violet

412
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Speaker 7: times occurred, and it's occurred again, and we need to

413
00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:23,160
Speaker 7: work together as a community to say no to this

414
00:21:23,241 --> 00:21:26,241
Speaker 7: type of violence and also support each other when it

415
00:21:26,281 --> 00:21:30,360
Speaker 7: occurs and does something to try and defer or deter

416
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Speaker 7: people and command those types of offenses.

417
00:21:38,360 --> 00:21:40,840
Speaker 2: Lee was stabbed in the back and kicked a few

418
00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:45,001
Speaker 2: times in the face. Emma was stabbed in her side.

419
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Speaker 2: It perforated the backside of her heart. All of it

420
00:21:49,561 --> 00:21:54,281
Speaker 2: was captured on Lee's CCTV, including the audio that Lee

421
00:21:54,521 --> 00:21:56,200
Speaker 2: doesn't ever want to hear again.

422
00:21:57,281 --> 00:22:01,960
Speaker 3: They had already previously I'd heard the audio because the

423
00:22:01,961 --> 00:22:05,441
Speaker 3: guy over the rover musk didn't have any footage that

424
00:22:05,801 --> 00:22:09,321
Speaker 3: his camera has actually got the audio, so that in

425
00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:12,321
Speaker 3: court they played that, but the girls and I left

426
00:22:12,360 --> 00:22:14,321
Speaker 3: for that because i'd heard that before and I don't

427
00:22:14,321 --> 00:22:18,321
Speaker 3: want to hear that again. But they played the TV

428
00:22:18,441 --> 00:22:22,321
Speaker 3: footage from the night is, you know, from all of

429
00:22:22,360 --> 00:22:23,920
Speaker 3: us sort of coming out the door and then and

430
00:22:23,961 --> 00:22:27,160
Speaker 3: then some of that on outside on the grass, and

431
00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:33,881
Speaker 3: my recognition recollection of what happened to what actually did

432
00:22:33,921 --> 00:22:35,880
Speaker 3: happen was slightly different. I think I said to you

433
00:22:35,921 --> 00:22:37,720
Speaker 3: previously that we sort of came out the door and

434
00:22:37,721 --> 00:22:41,321
Speaker 3: I thought I tried getting him on into a headlock,

435
00:22:41,360 --> 00:22:43,480
Speaker 3: but that wasn't quite the case. It turns out that

436
00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:45,680
Speaker 3: after we came out, I think, like Emma and I

437
00:22:45,721 --> 00:22:49,921
Speaker 3: were then fighting with them out on the grass, and

438
00:22:51,001 --> 00:22:55,680
Speaker 3: you know, and then you know, something else happened and

439
00:22:55,721 --> 00:22:57,321
Speaker 3: then that's when I then tried getting him in the

440
00:22:57,321 --> 00:23:00,561
Speaker 3: headlock and fell or whatever. So, yeah, there was that

441
00:23:00,681 --> 00:23:04,441
Speaker 3: that evening played that longer than what I remember.

442
00:23:04,120 --> 00:23:08,360
Speaker 4: Really, So how was it watching that vision again in court?

443
00:23:08,441 --> 00:23:09,840
Speaker 4: And the kids were there too, I guess.

444
00:23:10,120 --> 00:23:14,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like there was a few screens up and I

445
00:23:14,201 --> 00:23:17,161
Speaker 3: was sort of watching it, but in also not really

446
00:23:17,201 --> 00:23:19,201
Speaker 3: paying that much attention, if that makes sense. I sort

447
00:23:19,201 --> 00:23:22,440
Speaker 3: of that watched it, but didn't you know, so it

448
00:23:22,561 --> 00:23:25,120
Speaker 3: was pretty hard to watch, you know. And then like

449
00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:27,801
Speaker 3: I said, like for to see us all sort of

450
00:23:27,801 --> 00:23:32,681
Speaker 3: come out the door and then be on the grass,

451
00:23:32,721 --> 00:23:35,281
Speaker 3: and then like I said, like to see what actually

452
00:23:35,321 --> 00:23:39,241
Speaker 3: happened from what my memory remembered was yeah, a little

453
00:23:39,241 --> 00:23:41,561
Speaker 3: bit sort of shocking really, you know, And yeah, it

454
00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:43,041
Speaker 3: was pretty hard to watch, you know. Like I said,

455
00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:46,441
Speaker 3: we watched that and then left really so yeah, because

456
00:23:46,441 --> 00:23:48,041
Speaker 3: that's when they played the audio, so we left for that.

457
00:23:48,761 --> 00:23:51,321
Speaker 3: And then yeah, then the defense goes into the background

458
00:23:51,360 --> 00:23:53,041
Speaker 3: of the guy involved, and.

459
00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:56,281
Speaker 2: We can't name these two men that committed the crime

460
00:23:56,801 --> 00:23:59,441
Speaker 2: because at the time they were under the age of eighteen.

461
00:24:00,241 --> 00:24:02,921
Speaker 2: In fact, one of them was just three months from

462
00:24:03,041 --> 00:24:06,961
Speaker 2: turning eighteen. One of the effect has been sentenced in jail.

463
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:09,600
Speaker 2: We'll talk about that sentence and what Lee thinks of

464
00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:13,521
Speaker 2: it later in the series. The other is before the courts,

465
00:24:13,921 --> 00:24:16,360
Speaker 2: and the news of his sentence may be released as

466
00:24:16,360 --> 00:24:19,321
Speaker 2: we're releasing these episodes. But for now, let's talk about

467
00:24:19,321 --> 00:24:22,480
Speaker 2: one of the seventeen year old's rap sheets. Before he

468
00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:27,561
Speaker 2: murdered Emma. This seventeen year old had never spent any

469
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:33,721
Speaker 2: time in custody, although he had eighty four convictions. His

470
00:24:33,721 --> 00:24:36,400
Speaker 2: first crime was committed in May of twenty twenty. At

471
00:24:36,441 --> 00:24:39,601
Speaker 2: the start of COVID, he was just fifteen years old.

472
00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:45,401
Speaker 2: Sixteen of his crimes involved unlawful entry into premises, two

473
00:24:45,441 --> 00:24:49,761
Speaker 2: of those while the families were inside. Eleven offenses were

474
00:24:49,801 --> 00:24:53,080
Speaker 2: about breaking into cars or stealing them. Not once was

475
00:24:53,120 --> 00:24:56,920
Speaker 2: he placed into custody. Instead, he was sentenced to a

476
00:24:56,961 --> 00:25:01,441
Speaker 2: probation order of somewhere between three and nine months. Those

477
00:25:01,481 --> 00:25:04,680
Speaker 2: probation orders meant a weekly meeting with the youth Justice

478
00:25:04,681 --> 00:25:08,961
Speaker 2: worker for between forty five minutes to an hour. It

479
00:25:09,041 --> 00:25:12,600
Speaker 2: was a research based program which targeted offending behavior in

480
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:18,200
Speaker 2: a view to reducing future offending. This teenager was on

481
00:25:18,241 --> 00:25:23,441
Speaker 2: a probation order when he murdered Emma. It would seem

482
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:25,920
Speaker 2: for this boy who was soon to be a man,

483
00:25:26,241 --> 00:25:39,721
Speaker 2: that didn't work. I'm keen to understand why did it,

484
00:25:40,001 --> 00:25:43,001
Speaker 2: what led him to this. In my conversations with Lee,

485
00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:45,761
Speaker 2: he also had some clear thoughts on what the punishment

486
00:25:45,801 --> 00:25:48,720
Speaker 2: should be for a crime like this, an adult crime.

487
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:52,360
Speaker 2: He also agrees it's complex and knows that it didn't

488
00:25:52,441 --> 00:25:57,360
Speaker 2: start from nowhere. There is always a cause. We're going

489
00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:00,081
Speaker 2: to explore that in the next few episodes, but first

490
00:26:00,360 --> 00:26:02,321
Speaker 2: I want to go back to this seventeen year old boy,

491
00:26:02,521 --> 00:26:05,161
Speaker 2: the one that's been charged and sentenced for the murder

492
00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:10,120
Speaker 2: of Emma Lovell. It wasn't the first time this offender

493
00:26:10,201 --> 00:26:13,000
Speaker 2: had used a knife in a home invasion to stab someone.

494
00:26:13,761 --> 00:26:16,960
Speaker 2: In twenty twenty, when he was just fifteen turning sixteen,

495
00:26:17,321 --> 00:26:18,360
Speaker 2: he stabbed someone else.

496
00:26:21,561 --> 00:26:26,281
Speaker 6: Well, the next thing in my mind was looking down

497
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:29,041
Speaker 6: the end of the bed and then seeing the figure

498
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:32,041
Speaker 6: of a person at the end of the bed. I

499
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:33,440
Speaker 6: don't think there was a lot of thought from this

500
00:26:33,481 --> 00:26:34,201
Speaker 6: point onwards.

501
00:26:35,721 --> 00:26:37,281
Speaker 4: I started to move and went out.

502
00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:42,001
Speaker 6: Of the bedroom, and then I jump up and in

503
00:26:42,041 --> 00:26:45,361
Speaker 6: a very loud I feel it was aggressive now telling

504
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:47,200
Speaker 6: someone to get the f out of my house, and

505
00:26:47,241 --> 00:26:48,600
Speaker 6: I started chasing this person.

506
00:26:50,041 --> 00:26:53,200
Speaker 2: You'll hear more from Aaron and his wife Christine in

507
00:26:53,241 --> 00:26:55,360
Speaker 2: the next episode of Who's to Blame.

508
00:27:05,120 --> 00:27:05,160
Speaker 3: M