WEBVTT - Credlin | 15 July 0:00:01.320 --> 0:00:05.279 Petero Kredlin live on Sky News Australia. 0:00:07.520 --> 0:00:10.840 Good evening and welcome to the show. Here's what's coming 0:00:10.920 --> 0:00:15.200 up on Credline. The Prime Minister has outlined the national 0:00:15.240 --> 0:00:20.040 approach to AI. What will they mean for Australian businesses, jobs, 0:00:20.160 --> 0:00:24.079 and the future of the industry. Labor is back in 0:00:24.120 --> 0:00:27.080 the lead, according to the latest Sky News Pulse. So 0:00:27.360 --> 0:00:30.840 has the coalition's attack on one nation paid off or 0:00:31.000 --> 0:00:34.400 is labor reaping the benefits. A new report from the 0:00:34.400 --> 0:00:39.200 CSIROW and the Australian Energy Market Operator projects the cost 0:00:39.240 --> 0:00:43.560 of electricity will increase after twenty thirty as coal fired 0:00:43.680 --> 0:00:48.720 power stations are replaced and university chiefs grilled out the 0:00:48.760 --> 0:00:52.520 Royal Commission into Anti Semitism. But is it a little 0:00:52.520 --> 0:00:55.960 too late when it comes to the safety of Jewish students. 0:00:56.480 --> 0:01:00.080 I can see that our Jewish students and staff paid. 0:01:00.160 --> 0:01:04.040 Price for that as the encampment dragged on, and I 0:01:04.160 --> 0:01:05.680 am im. 0:01:05.680 --> 0:01:07.960 Sorry to them that it took so long. 0:01:07.800 --> 0:01:10.400 For us to get it done well. 0:01:10.440 --> 0:01:14.679 AI will change our economy more than the Internet. The 0:01:14.800 --> 0:01:19.880 question isn't whether it's coming, but instead will Australia lead 0:01:19.959 --> 0:01:23.880 it or regulate it until the investment goes somewhere else. 0:01:24.480 --> 0:01:28.559 We want more Australian companies and global firms developing AI 0:01:29.000 --> 0:01:34.080 here to boost our sovereign capability, to strengthen our national 0:01:34.120 --> 0:01:37.080 security and build our economic resilience. 0:01:38.640 --> 0:01:42.600 But today's answer appears to be exactly what governments always 0:01:42.640 --> 0:01:48.000 reach for, another office, more bureaucracy, and the Albernezi wants 0:01:48.040 --> 0:01:51.520 an office of AI in the Prime Minister's department. 0:01:53.960 --> 0:01:55.920 His reactions should be to say, how do we help 0:01:56.000 --> 0:02:01.360 small businesses to grow, to invest, to employ more people, 0:02:01.760 --> 0:02:05.200 to drive up incomes and wages. That should be his reaction, 0:02:05.520 --> 0:02:10.280 But his first year reaction is always to increase the 0:02:10.360 --> 0:02:11.760 bureaucracy in Canberra. 0:02:11.840 --> 0:02:13.040 That's not the answer. 0:02:16.840 --> 0:02:20.760 In data center investment last year. And Anthropic wants to 0:02:20.760 --> 0:02:24.240 spend another twenty one billion dollars here if they can 0:02:24.280 --> 0:02:27.880 get policy certainty. And one of those sticking points is 0:02:28.000 --> 0:02:32.240 copyright laws. The Prime Minister said today that creatives must 0:02:32.280 --> 0:02:35.040 have control over how their product is used. 0:02:35.760 --> 0:02:39.880 But let me make this crystal clear. Not everything produced 0:02:39.960 --> 0:02:46.240 in Australia is up for grabs, not at all. Australian writers, musicians, 0:02:47.000 --> 0:02:51.280 artists and journalists must retain ownership. 0:02:51.160 --> 0:02:52.959 And control of their work. 0:02:53.840 --> 0:02:58.280 Our laws will spell that out plane as day. An 0:02:58.400 --> 0:03:03.800 artist creative endeavor is their work and their property. No 0:03:03.919 --> 0:03:07.160 company should use Australian books, music, art or news to 0:03:07.240 --> 0:03:11.680 build or train AI without the artist's control, and that 0:03:11.840 --> 0:03:15.520 includes the artist's control of the price and value of 0:03:15.639 --> 0:03:18.880 their work. Anything less is theft. 0:03:20.520 --> 0:03:24.880 Mister Albinizi also outlined rules around the locations of data 0:03:24.960 --> 0:03:27.360 centers and the energy that they use. 0:03:28.080 --> 0:03:31.240 Will create a legal obligation for the next generation of 0:03:31.360 --> 0:03:36.600 large scale data centers to underwrite new power supply, to 0:03:36.680 --> 0:03:40.040 pay their full share of grid connection so no costs 0:03:40.040 --> 0:03:43.960 are passed on to homes or businesses, and to put 0:03:44.160 --> 0:03:47.840 at least as much energy into our grid as they 0:03:47.880 --> 0:03:51.840 take out of it. Australia is the sunniest continent on Earth, 0:03:52.480 --> 0:03:55.360 but we're also the drift, which is why our rules 0:03:55.440 --> 0:03:59.240 will require data centers to minimize their water use, to 0:03:59.320 --> 0:04:03.320 maximize the energy efficiency and pay for any additional water 0:04:03.440 --> 0:04:05.760 infrastructure that is required. 0:04:07.640 --> 0:04:11.880 Well. AI is the biggest economic opportunity of this generation. 0:04:12.600 --> 0:04:16.440 Liberal Deputy Leader Jane Hume said the concern is labor 0:04:16.520 --> 0:04:19.240 will get stuck with union demands. 0:04:19.360 --> 0:04:23.120 But my concern is more about whether labor stifles that 0:04:23.200 --> 0:04:27.599 innovation that comes with AI rather than allowing it to flourish. 0:04:27.880 --> 0:04:29.640 One of the things that we have heard one of 0:04:29.640 --> 0:04:32.880 the great inconsistencies that has come from labor in this 0:04:33.360 --> 0:04:36.599 is whether unions should have a rite of veto over 0:04:36.720 --> 0:04:40.040 whether private sector companies can adopt AI. 0:04:41.760 --> 0:04:45.960 And this isn't a theatrical risk. There are already examples 0:04:46.000 --> 0:04:49.719 of unions demanding a say in how AI is implemented 0:04:49.720 --> 0:04:53.480 in the workplace to ensure jobs aren't lost. Now call 0:04:53.560 --> 0:04:57.040 me a cynic, but is the latest reform just another 0:04:57.080 --> 0:05:01.000 way for alban easy to protect union jobs. Don't underestimate 0:05:01.040 --> 0:05:03.760 the extent unions are going to try to control the 0:05:03.800 --> 0:05:07.640 implementation of AI on top of their usual pay and 0:05:07.760 --> 0:05:13.000 working hour demands. The countries that embrace AI will create jobs, 0:05:13.200 --> 0:05:18.840 build the companies. Australia should absolutely have safeguards, but safeguards 0:05:18.880 --> 0:05:22.680 should give investors confidence, not give them reasons to invest 0:05:22.720 --> 0:05:26.719 somewhere else. If we spend the next decade regulating AI 0:05:27.080 --> 0:05:29.600 while the rest of the world is building it, we 0:05:29.680 --> 0:05:32.680 won't just lose this race. We'll be watching it from 0:05:32.680 --> 0:05:42.000 the sidelines. The backbone of Australia's economy is breaking small 0:05:42.080 --> 0:05:46.480 businesses are closing their doors at an alarming rate. Last 0:05:46.480 --> 0:05:50.760 financial year, more than fourteen thousand went under. That's nearly 0:05:50.839 --> 0:05:55.600 thirty businesses every single day. Since Labor came to office 0:05:55.640 --> 0:05:59.960 in twenty twenty two, insolvencies have soared by two hundred percent, 0:06:00.560 --> 0:06:04.120 with more than forty seven thousand businesses going under. The 0:06:04.200 --> 0:06:09.159 hardest hit the construction industry. For four straight years, about 0:06:09.200 --> 0:06:12.520 one quarter of all corporate insolvencies have occurred in the 0:06:12.560 --> 0:06:17.000 construction sector. The accommodation and hospitality sectors are next on 0:06:17.040 --> 0:06:22.120 the list. Businesses are being hit with higher costs, more regulation, 0:06:22.720 --> 0:06:26.359 and even the prospect of higher taxes. Here was one 0:06:26.360 --> 0:06:30.039 caller today on two GB's Mike Levy program, speaking from 0:06:30.040 --> 0:06:30.560 the ground. 0:06:31.600 --> 0:06:34.400 We just lost another trains will cut in Litgo. 0:06:34.800 --> 0:06:34.960 Now. 0:06:35.000 --> 0:06:38.760 I can't cam in on why they shut shot because 0:06:38.800 --> 0:06:40.880 I don't know any of the details. But what I 0:06:40.960 --> 0:06:44.120 can come in on he employed some may between ten 0:06:44.120 --> 0:06:46.560 and twenty people. That's ten to twenty jobs. People have 0:06:46.640 --> 0:06:48.720 got to go and find another one or just jobs gone. 0:06:50.560 --> 0:06:54.120 Small business is really struggling and has been marked for 0:06:54.160 --> 0:06:54.960 a long time. 0:06:55.040 --> 0:06:59.960 Mate, this is the opportunity for the Coalition to seize 0:07:00.320 --> 0:07:04.839 and back small businesses. Opposition leader Angus Taylor wrote in 0:07:04.839 --> 0:07:08.880 Today's Daily Telegraph. The reality is simple. It is not 0:07:09.040 --> 0:07:14.280 the government that creates prosperity. It's the entrepreneurs, workers, farmers, 0:07:14.440 --> 0:07:20.280 manufacturers and small businesses who take risks, invest, employ Australians 0:07:20.600 --> 0:07:24.239 and build our economy and generate the prosperity that lifts 0:07:24.320 --> 0:07:27.960 us all. Angus Taylor has said that a government he 0:07:28.160 --> 0:07:30.920 leads will focus on small business. 0:07:31.960 --> 0:07:36.560 We talk today with these small business people here about 0:07:37.200 --> 0:07:40.400 the way out, and there is a way out, and 0:07:40.440 --> 0:07:45.120 that means acting Labour's toxic taxes and Labour's excessive red 0:07:45.160 --> 0:07:48.840 tape that it's wrapping around every small business in this country, 0:07:49.120 --> 0:07:51.360 making it harder for them to invest, to grow, to 0:07:51.440 --> 0:07:53.720 create jobs that take risks. And that's what we need 0:07:53.760 --> 0:07:57.560 them to do. More of scrapping net zero and making 0:07:57.600 --> 0:08:01.560 sure we have the affordable, abundant any we need in 0:08:01.600 --> 0:08:02.360 this country. 0:08:03.920 --> 0:08:07.560 Now one thing is becoming increasingly important, and that is 0:08:07.680 --> 0:08:12.440 economic and real world experience. Just look at the coalition's 0:08:12.520 --> 0:08:16.320 leadership team. Angus Taylor was a Rhodes Scholar in economics 0:08:16.320 --> 0:08:19.800 at Oxford before a career in the private sector. Deputy 0:08:19.880 --> 0:08:23.560 Liberal leader Jane Hume spent years in financial services and 0:08:23.680 --> 0:08:28.360 investment across multiple banks. National's leader Macanavan worked as an 0:08:28.400 --> 0:08:33.240 economist with the Productivity Commission and KPMG. Deputy Nationals Leader 0:08:33.360 --> 0:08:37.760 Darren Chester ran his own small business. Now, let's compare 0:08:37.800 --> 0:08:41.400 that with labor. Before entering Parliament in nineteen ninety six, 0:08:41.480 --> 0:08:45.720 Anthony Alberizi was a Labor machine man and staffer. He 0:08:45.880 --> 0:08:48.480 has been on the board of South Sydney Rabbitdos and 0:08:48.520 --> 0:08:52.439 the board of a Labor Party owned radio station. Treasurer 0:08:52.559 --> 0:08:57.440 Jim Chalmers well, his PhD isn't in economics, it's in 0:08:57.600 --> 0:09:01.760 Paul Keating. Before entering Parlamman in twenty thirteen, he worked 0:09:01.760 --> 0:09:05.720 in the ALP National office, Wayne Swan's office and briefly 0:09:05.840 --> 0:09:10.319 ran the Chiefly Research Center the Labor Parties Think Tank. Now, 0:09:10.320 --> 0:09:12.720 at a time when businesses are closing at a rate 0:09:12.760 --> 0:09:16.320 of almost thirty a day, Australians have every right to 0:09:16.400 --> 0:09:20.360 ask who is better equipped to understand what it takes 0:09:20.400 --> 0:09:24.480 to build a business, create jobs and grow the economy. 0:09:25.120 --> 0:09:29.320 Because right now businesses need a government that understands what 0:09:29.360 --> 0:09:32.640 it's like to sign the front of a paycheck, not 0:09:32.840 --> 0:09:36.440 just the back of one because if small business fails, 0:09:37.040 --> 0:09:45.400 Australia fails. Well, let's head to Canbra Now. For tonight's 0:09:45.400 --> 0:09:49.000 political headlines, we're Sky News political reporter cam Redden. 0:09:51.520 --> 0:09:54.080 Having led the world with a social media ban, the 0:09:54.120 --> 0:09:57.599 Prime Minister wants to do the same for artificial intelligence. 0:09:58.040 --> 0:10:00.600 We can set a standard the chain years, the way 0:10:00.720 --> 0:10:03.600 the world looks at an issue and deals with it. 0:10:03.960 --> 0:10:08.160 His government will develop a national regulatory framework alongside states 0:10:08.160 --> 0:10:11.240 and territories, with a view to legislate it early next year. 0:10:11.679 --> 0:10:14.920 New rules of engagement would safeguard land for housing, with 0:10:15.000 --> 0:10:19.400 greater community consultation, and strict energy requirements on data center 0:10:19.440 --> 0:10:20.600 projects to. 0:10:20.600 --> 0:10:23.920 Pay their full share of grid connection so no costs 0:10:23.960 --> 0:10:27.880 are passed on to homes or businesses, and to put 0:10:28.120 --> 0:10:31.760 at least as much energy into our grid as they 0:10:31.840 --> 0:10:32.480 take out of it. 0:10:33.000 --> 0:10:37.200 Australian creatives will be explicitly protected by banning the free 0:10:37.240 --> 0:10:39.680 for all use of their work in the training of 0:10:39.760 --> 0:10:40.640 AI models. 0:10:41.000 --> 0:10:48.400 Australian writers, musicians, artists and journalists must retain ownership and. 0:10:48.400 --> 0:10:50.000 Control of their work. 0:10:50.840 --> 0:10:55.040 Our laws will spell that out plane as day, and 0:10:55.080 --> 0:10:58.679 that includes the artist's control of the price and value 0:10:58.840 --> 0:11:01.959 of their work. Anything less is. 0:11:01.960 --> 0:11:05.800 Theft News Corp Executive chair Michael Miller says the government 0:11:05.880 --> 0:11:09.120 must now turn this framework into action to move fast 0:11:09.240 --> 0:11:12.480 and deliver for the nation. The Prime Minister's vision would 0:11:12.520 --> 0:11:15.440 be world leading, but as with all regulation in this area, 0:11:15.480 --> 0:11:18.040 the hard part is to enforce it. Amidst all the 0:11:18.040 --> 0:11:22.040 apocalyptic predictions about AI's impact on jobs, the environment and 0:11:22.080 --> 0:11:25.160 the world, Anthony Alberaneesi is choosing to look on the 0:11:25.160 --> 0:11:26.480 bright side now. 0:11:26.520 --> 0:11:31.240 We should not treat AI as a threat to good jobs. 0:11:32.080 --> 0:11:35.920 We must use it as an instrument to help create. 0:11:35.600 --> 0:11:39.319 Them, taking personal ownership. A new office of AI will 0:11:39.360 --> 0:11:41.440 be set up in the Prime Minister's department. 0:11:41.679 --> 0:11:45.160 What he's announced is an office in an office inside 0:11:45.200 --> 0:11:47.880 his own office. He's going to have another office. 0:11:47.679 --> 0:11:52.320 A world leading attempt to fence in a world changing technology. 0:11:52.920 --> 0:11:55.880 Cameron Redden's Sky News Canberra. 0:12:02.800 --> 0:12:05.280 All right more Now on the latest results from the 0:12:05.320 --> 0:12:09.079 Sky News Pulse UGOV poll. Let's bring in chief political 0:12:09.120 --> 0:12:12.320 analyst Tom Connell, who has done all the number crunching 0:12:12.360 --> 0:12:17.079 for us. Tom welcome labor has clawed back that lead. 0:12:17.679 --> 0:12:19.520 What do you think this is the result of. 0:12:21.080 --> 0:12:24.160 Well first and foremost When you look at the primary vault. Yes, 0:12:24.640 --> 0:12:27.360 Labor is back in the lead. It's a three party 0:12:27.440 --> 0:12:29.560 race really now, isn't it rather than a two party race? 0:12:29.640 --> 0:12:30.880 But how's it done? 0:12:30.920 --> 0:12:31.240 It? 0:12:31.240 --> 0:12:33.920 It's one percentage point down. So what's really happened here 0:12:34.320 --> 0:12:37.040 is the One Nation vote coming down from thirty to 0:12:37.080 --> 0:12:41.400 twenty six now in one survey. That's a significant downward trend. 0:12:41.440 --> 0:12:44.160 It doesn't mean this is down down down for One Nation. 0:12:44.600 --> 0:12:46.719 Last survey we did two weeks ago, they went up, 0:12:46.760 --> 0:12:49.840 so this is not a set trend as yet, but 0:12:49.880 --> 0:12:52.600 that's the main shift here. The One Nation party down 0:12:52.720 --> 0:12:55.520 Coalition is well up now. Previously when we've seen One 0:12:55.600 --> 0:12:58.080 Nation lose vote, it's mainly gone to Labor, so that 0:12:58.120 --> 0:13:01.880 will cheer coalition hearts some. The gap between the Coalition 0:13:01.920 --> 0:13:05.280 and One Nation was thirteen percent only last survey, and 0:13:05.320 --> 0:13:08.480 this time at six now that is better. It's still 0:13:08.520 --> 0:13:10.840 worth mentioning One Nation is a headed at coalition by 0:13:10.880 --> 0:13:13.600 six percent. That's something we never thought we'd say even 0:13:13.600 --> 0:13:16.080 a few months ago. But nonetheless there is that tightening 0:13:16.280 --> 0:13:20.080 you can see as well, six percent there and the 0:13:20.120 --> 0:13:24.000 Greens slightly down. We did also poll this new Community 0:13:24.080 --> 0:13:27.280 Strong Party, which two teals have joined and they've started 0:13:27.280 --> 0:13:30.240 on two percent, so no surprise, it's only two seats 0:13:30.280 --> 0:13:32.160 they're in. But we'll just start that as a marker 0:13:32.240 --> 0:13:35.040 is to see whether they go up or down that 0:13:35.160 --> 0:13:37.760 Zalie Stegal and a Legra spender so far in that party. 0:13:38.600 --> 0:13:41.520 Tom What I find interesting about the results is that 0:13:42.280 --> 0:13:45.400 more than half said the country has become weaker and 0:13:45.520 --> 0:13:49.240 poorer since the election last year, and yet it just 0:13:49.440 --> 0:13:52.760 amazes me that Labor still leads in the polls. That 0:13:52.840 --> 0:13:56.520 they don't seem to have had any impact to the 0:13:56.559 --> 0:14:00.880 budget or people feeling poorer. They continue to lead, I 0:14:00.920 --> 0:14:03.000 know close, but they're still leading. Yeap. 0:14:04.000 --> 0:14:05.720 Labour's primary vote here twenty eight percent. 0:14:05.800 --> 0:14:06.439 Let's remember at. 0:14:06.360 --> 0:14:09.120 The last election they were thirty four point five percent. 0:14:09.559 --> 0:14:11.720 That's a big amount of vote to lose to go 0:14:11.760 --> 0:14:14.640 from thirty four point five. So the duel story is 0:14:14.720 --> 0:14:17.520 Labor is undeniably less popular than it was a little 0:14:17.520 --> 0:14:19.920 bit more than a year ago. The issue has been 0:14:20.040 --> 0:14:22.120 the mix of vote there and how that turns into 0:14:22.120 --> 0:14:24.560 two party preferred, which right now has Labor leading fifty 0:14:24.600 --> 0:14:27.600 three against the coalition in fifty six against one nation. 0:14:27.680 --> 0:14:31.240 But really that's theoretical, Jamie, because it would just be 0:14:31.280 --> 0:14:33.240 a seat by seat battle. I think we have as 0:14:33.320 --> 0:14:36.720 well the stronger questions which will bring up for our 0:14:36.800 --> 0:14:40.200 viewers the information on that. So this is asking people 0:14:40.560 --> 0:14:43.800 thinking about where the country was a year ago compared 0:14:43.840 --> 0:14:47.480 to now. Is a stronger Is Australia a stronger place 0:14:47.920 --> 0:14:50.760 and more prosperous? So you can see they're fifteen percent. 0:14:51.240 --> 0:14:54.200 That's a small number, isn't it? Weaker and poorer? Fifty 0:14:54.240 --> 0:14:58.720 one percent unchanged thirty four So clearly things have deteriorated. Now, 0:14:58.880 --> 0:15:02.120 how on earth would a government not be outrageously unpopular 0:15:02.160 --> 0:15:04.600 from this? Well, if you look at part of the 0:15:04.640 --> 0:15:07.800 reason why we're poorer, clearly there's a factor from. 0:15:07.560 --> 0:15:08.640 The Iran war there. 0:15:08.680 --> 0:15:12.400 So voters might say, oh, we're poorer, not necessarily that 0:15:12.440 --> 0:15:13.240 the government's fault. 0:15:13.240 --> 0:15:14.840 That's what some people would be saying. 0:15:14.880 --> 0:15:17.320 Now others would say interest rates were already on the 0:15:17.360 --> 0:15:20.000 way up. Will blame a mix of the RBA, the government, 0:15:20.080 --> 0:15:22.800 whatever it might be. Clearly this if this doesn't improve 0:15:22.960 --> 0:15:26.000 and through three years people feel as though the country 0:15:26.040 --> 0:15:29.520 is largely weaker and poorer, well enough blame is going 0:15:29.560 --> 0:15:32.360 to go to labor. But so far, given the impact 0:15:32.360 --> 0:15:35.760 of the Iran war. It's a significant external fact to say, well, 0:15:35.800 --> 0:15:39.160 this has happened. Many or a decent number might say 0:15:39.160 --> 0:15:40.160 it's not Labour's fault. 0:15:41.080 --> 0:15:45.320 And Tom tell us about the Prime minister's popularity that 0:15:45.400 --> 0:15:48.680 he has gone up in terms of support for males, 0:15:48.800 --> 0:15:50.880 especially off the back of that podcast, but then he's 0:15:50.880 --> 0:15:53.480 gone down a little bit in terms of the eyes 0:15:53.520 --> 0:15:53.960 of women. 0:15:55.760 --> 0:15:58.440 Yeah, and it's been shifting about in terms of that 0:15:58.480 --> 0:16:01.480 support for Anthony Albanezi. One of the things on gender 0:16:01.520 --> 0:16:03.479 that came up a lot as well for the coalition 0:16:03.600 --> 0:16:06.320 was initially that the female vote was down and then 0:16:06.360 --> 0:16:08.200 after a bit while it was just both votes. I 0:16:08.240 --> 0:16:11.880 think we've got as well Anthony Albanesi and a comparison 0:16:11.920 --> 0:16:15.160 here with Pauline Hansen, which is a question we asked 0:16:15.160 --> 0:16:17.000 for the first time only a few months ago. Again 0:16:17.120 --> 0:16:20.720 something that would have been unthinkable preferred PM Anthony Albanesi 0:16:20.800 --> 0:16:23.119 versus Pauline Hanson. Now, Anthony Alberanzi started. 0:16:22.840 --> 0:16:23.680 With a huge lead. 0:16:23.800 --> 0:16:27.040 Last survey it was down to just nine percent, so 0:16:27.520 --> 0:16:30.200 he was ahead of Pauline Hanson only nine percent, which 0:16:30.400 --> 0:16:33.480 considering she's in the Upper House, yes she can. 0:16:33.320 --> 0:16:34.000 Be Prime minister. 0:16:34.080 --> 0:16:37.600 It's a pretty difficult mechanism, Jamie, that that was pretty close. 0:16:37.800 --> 0:16:40.000 In one survey you see Pauline Hanson going down by 0:16:40.040 --> 0:16:42.760 five percent and Anthony Albanesi up, So the gap goes 0:16:42.800 --> 0:16:46.520 from nine to nineteen. So we have seen one nation 0:16:46.680 --> 0:16:49.720 overall lose support and Pauline Hanson lose personal support as well. 0:16:49.760 --> 0:16:52.600 As I've said last survey, only last survey there were 0:16:52.640 --> 0:16:55.320 improvements for one nation. We're not calling it a trend yet, 0:16:55.360 --> 0:16:58.200 but given the size of the drop, it's definitely a 0:16:58.240 --> 0:16:59.680 watch for the next couple of poles. 0:17:00.440 --> 0:17:02.720 Yeah, we'll certainly be keeping our eye very closely on 0:17:02.760 --> 0:17:06.680 at Tom Connell. Thank you. Well, it's time to bring 0:17:06.680 --> 0:17:10.800 in the panel now. Mensi's Research Center Executive Director Nick Kaida, 0:17:11.080 --> 0:17:15.240 and there's Samuel Griffith Society Executive director Mia Schlickt. Welcome 0:17:15.320 --> 0:17:17.919 to you both. Nick, I do want to start with 0:17:17.960 --> 0:17:22.400 you Australian Defense Force troops who are training Ukrainians in Poland. 0:17:22.960 --> 0:17:25.720 They've been warning that they're facing a serious shortage of 0:17:25.720 --> 0:17:28.960 critical equipment and express quite a lot of frustration that 0:17:29.320 --> 0:17:31.760 there's a lot of excess or old stock back home 0:17:31.760 --> 0:17:34.520 in Australia which could make an immediate difference if it 0:17:34.640 --> 0:17:39.520 was sent over to Ukraine. But despite these challenges, Ukraine 0:17:39.600 --> 0:17:44.840 has reportedly carried out the world's first robotic amphibious assault, 0:17:44.960 --> 0:17:49.000 deploying a robot from an uncruded boat, and the footage 0:17:49.040 --> 0:17:53.280 of this is incredible. How significant in your mind is 0:17:53.320 --> 0:17:56.000 this when it comes to modern warfare? 0:17:57.960 --> 0:18:01.920 I think that this wararticularly the way Ukraine has adapted 0:18:01.960 --> 0:18:06.200 to this war, has changed the nature of warfare quite considerably. 0:18:06.560 --> 0:18:09.800 We can see that they've had tremendous success in using 0:18:09.920 --> 0:18:13.560 drones as far as Moscow, which is just incredible, and 0:18:13.640 --> 0:18:19.000 this too robotic technology of this sort. It worries me 0:18:19.040 --> 0:18:23.080 and mentally though, that Australian troops are complaining that they're 0:18:23.080 --> 0:18:26.800 not able to support the Ukrainians as best they can. One, 0:18:26.840 --> 0:18:30.119 of course, because we should be given Ukraine every assistance 0:18:30.160 --> 0:18:32.159 we can. But two, what does it say about the 0:18:32.160 --> 0:18:34.520 state of our own readiness, Jamie? I mean, if we 0:18:34.560 --> 0:18:38.720 were in a wartime situation, how ready would we be 0:18:39.440 --> 0:18:42.600 to compete? I don't think nearly as ready as the Ukrainians, 0:18:42.680 --> 0:18:45.840 quite frankly, but so we really need to get up 0:18:45.840 --> 0:18:47.520 to scratch. And I think much of this is not 0:18:47.600 --> 0:18:53.119 so much money. Although that's important. But administration and management, well, Nick. 0:18:53.000 --> 0:18:56.640 We've already provided one point seven billion dollars in support 0:18:56.800 --> 0:18:59.920 to Ukraine, and yet we're not providing something that could 0:18:59.920 --> 0:19:02.679 be of immediate effect. So what does that say about 0:19:02.720 --> 0:19:05.439 our spend? We must be sending and using it in 0:19:05.480 --> 0:19:08.320 the wrong areas if they're still crying out for needing 0:19:08.400 --> 0:19:10.399 just some of our old warfare. 0:19:12.200 --> 0:19:14.640 It's the old thing, isn't it. You know, we announced 0:19:15.080 --> 0:19:17.639 big sums of money that we're going to send, were 0:19:17.640 --> 0:19:20.800 going to apply to this problem or that problem. Money 0:19:20.840 --> 0:19:23.720 so often is not The issue is spending it well. 0:19:24.200 --> 0:19:26.920 And I think anybody who's had any contact with our 0:19:26.960 --> 0:19:31.480 defense department and would be concerned, to say the least 0:19:31.760 --> 0:19:35.640 about their ability to respond in an efficient and agile 0:19:35.680 --> 0:19:38.119 manner in the way that you expect a defense forced 0:19:38.160 --> 0:19:41.680 to respond in wartime. I'd really like more assurance that 0:19:41.760 --> 0:19:42.679 they are on top of this. 0:19:44.119 --> 0:19:47.000 Mia. I'd love to get your thoughts on this new 0:19:47.040 --> 0:19:51.040 report from the CIRO and the Australian Energy Market Operator. 0:19:51.640 --> 0:19:55.200 They're projecting that the cost of electricity generation is going 0:19:55.240 --> 0:19:58.960 to increase after twenty thirty as coal fired power stations 0:19:59.080 --> 0:20:05.399 are replaced. What did you make of the report. Well, Jamie, the. 0:20:05.440 --> 0:20:08.840 Numbers are concerning. Of course, it's a difficult reality for 0:20:08.960 --> 0:20:12.880 Australians to have to realize, but unfortunately it's not shocking. 0:20:13.040 --> 0:20:17.280 This is what energy experts and serious economic advisors have 0:20:17.400 --> 0:20:19.600 been telling us for a number of years now. This 0:20:19.840 --> 0:20:23.000 is the reality of what happens when we shift our 0:20:23.000 --> 0:20:26.840 alliance away from baseload power like cold fire power stations 0:20:26.880 --> 0:20:29.720 and to shift towards an energy grid that is run 0:20:29.840 --> 0:20:34.560 by renewables. And unfortunately, moral grand standing has driven government 0:20:34.600 --> 0:20:37.800 policy for a number of years now, but this is 0:20:37.840 --> 0:20:41.199 the economic reality and it is mainstream Australians who are 0:20:41.240 --> 0:20:43.600 going to have to pay the price for that. There 0:20:43.640 --> 0:20:46.240 is a net zero economy, of course, which benefits a 0:20:46.359 --> 0:20:49.280 number of insiders who would like us to continue down 0:20:49.320 --> 0:20:51.960 this path of renewables. But if we do so, it 0:20:52.040 --> 0:20:55.040 is electricity prices that we'll saw and unfortunately it will 0:20:55.080 --> 0:20:57.480 be Australians who have to choose between heating and eating 0:20:58.040 --> 0:20:59.440 and they'll be the ones most affected. 0:21:01.520 --> 0:21:04.199 Well, let's turn our attention now to a piece that 0:21:04.280 --> 0:21:06.359 was in the Daily Telegraph today and it was written 0:21:06.400 --> 0:21:09.840 by former New South Wales Police minister David Elliott and 0:21:09.880 --> 0:21:12.280 he's calling on the Prime Minister to crack down on 0:21:12.320 --> 0:21:15.040 alict at tobacco, and he has said that this is 0:21:15.040 --> 0:21:18.760 his great political regret that he failed to take action 0:21:18.880 --> 0:21:21.600 when he was warned, and he also made this observation 0:21:21.680 --> 0:21:23.639 on my show on Sunday Take a listen. 0:21:24.520 --> 0:21:28.200 I'm embarrassed on this matter because as counter terrorism Minister 0:21:28.320 --> 0:21:31.399 six years ago, the tobacco companies came to me and 0:21:31.520 --> 0:21:36.280 predicted exactly what's happened, and I ignored it. And I'm 0:21:36.400 --> 0:21:40.160 absolutely giving myself uppercuts. They said, this money is going 0:21:40.200 --> 0:21:42.680 to be used in money launering, it's going to be 0:21:42.720 --> 0:21:44.280 used by criminal gangs, is going to be used to 0:21:44.400 --> 0:21:47.280 fund terrorism, and I suspect that's exactly what's happened. 0:21:48.760 --> 0:21:51.520 Nick. They were some pretty strong comments by David Elliott. 0:21:51.520 --> 0:21:52.440 What do you think. 0:21:54.240 --> 0:21:57.639 I was definitely getting through the Sunday Telegraph Probably nearly twenty, 0:21:57.760 --> 0:22:00.359 no more than twenty years ago, we were writing stories 0:22:00.400 --> 0:22:04.200 about the illegal tobacco which was openly on sale in 0:22:04.960 --> 0:22:08.359 parts of Sydney. It's much much worse, of course now, 0:22:08.680 --> 0:22:11.320 and we learn from the ABS statistics so that the 0:22:11.480 --> 0:22:14.760 consumption nicotine has gone up forty percent because these things 0:22:14.800 --> 0:22:17.359 are available for a little more than ten dollars a 0:22:17.440 --> 0:22:20.880 packet and openly on sale. Number one. I just don't 0:22:20.920 --> 0:22:23.399 know why our police forces can't get on top of this. 0:22:23.480 --> 0:22:26.159 I know it's resources that they could use elsewhere, but 0:22:26.240 --> 0:22:28.639 this is a major problem. There's a lot of gang 0:22:28.640 --> 0:22:32.080 related behavior going on. We've had, you know, tobacconists going 0:22:32.119 --> 0:22:35.760 up in smoke as it were. But you know, number two, 0:22:36.359 --> 0:22:38.720 you know, the federal government just needs to look at 0:22:38.760 --> 0:22:43.399 the revenue issue. They've imposed a ridiculously huge tax on cigarettes. 0:22:43.640 --> 0:22:47.440 It's driving people to the illegal market and actually increasing 0:22:47.520 --> 0:22:51.040 the amount of cigarettes that are smoked. I just don't 0:22:51.080 --> 0:22:54.720 get it. You know, it's completely countroductive, conductive policy that's 0:22:54.760 --> 0:22:56.960 producing less and less money for the revenue for the 0:22:57.600 --> 0:23:00.680 treasury every year. We've surely got to look at that. 0:23:01.520 --> 0:23:05.240 Yeah, something that the government needs to really be focusing 0:23:05.280 --> 0:23:08.760 on heading into both the next elections. But mia there's 0:23:09.240 --> 0:23:13.480 fresh debate has erupted over whether avoiding the use of 0:23:13.560 --> 0:23:16.119 gender stereotypes is actually helpful for children. 0:23:16.520 --> 0:23:16.680 Now. 0:23:16.720 --> 0:23:20.119 This comes after some viral comments by a British YouTuber 0:23:20.240 --> 0:23:25.120 and disability and LGBTQI advocate. Her name's Jessica kelgrin Fozard. 0:23:25.640 --> 0:23:27.600 Take a look at what she said. 0:23:28.520 --> 0:23:30.560 I think one of the most useful shifts we can 0:23:30.600 --> 0:23:33.240 make is, rather than focusing on identity and trying to 0:23:33.280 --> 0:23:36.560 win them an eat, gender move to a cultivating character instead. 0:23:37.160 --> 0:23:41.160 You're so sweet, soul. That was a very thoughtful thing 0:23:41.200 --> 0:23:41.439 to do. 0:23:41.640 --> 0:23:43.560 Sweat good girl, ful. 0:23:44.040 --> 0:23:45.160 You worked really hard. 0:23:45.280 --> 0:23:46.600 You should feel proud of yourself. 0:23:47.160 --> 0:23:48.399 What a brave boy. 0:23:49.720 --> 0:23:52.280 I saw how nervous you were, but you kept going 0:23:52.400 --> 0:23:55.159 even though it was difficult. One describes who the child is, 0:23:55.240 --> 0:23:57.160 the other notices what they choose to do. 0:23:59.480 --> 0:24:02.280 Oh yeah, I gotta say, I always refer to my 0:24:02.359 --> 0:24:06.720 children as good boys and well done guys, and that, 0:24:06.760 --> 0:24:10.040 according to this woman, is a complete no no. Why 0:24:10.040 --> 0:24:16.680 can't we just speak to genders of what they are? Oh, look, 0:24:17.160 --> 0:24:17.800 I that granting. 0:24:17.880 --> 0:24:20.280 Most parents have had enough of this. Just let parents 0:24:20.400 --> 0:24:23.080 parent and let kids be kid. The thing I cannot 0:24:23.119 --> 0:24:26.200 stand about these gender activists is that it doesn't make 0:24:26.320 --> 0:24:30.040 sense because in one breath they'll talk about how important, 0:24:30.080 --> 0:24:33.760 how important nuances, and that how much can affect a child. 0:24:33.760 --> 0:24:35.440 As to whether you call someone a good girl or 0:24:35.440 --> 0:24:37.960 whether you say that action was a good one, they'll 0:24:38.040 --> 0:24:41.560 emphasize that those small changes can really affect a child's development. 0:24:41.640 --> 0:24:44.320 But then in the other breath, they'll sit there and 0:24:44.359 --> 0:24:48.600 they'll advocate for extremely age inappropriate content to be taught 0:24:48.600 --> 0:24:51.320 to our children in schools as young as five years old, 0:24:51.359 --> 0:24:54.080 being taught things about gender ideology and the fact they 0:24:54.160 --> 0:24:55.960 might have been born in the wrong body and the 0:24:56.000 --> 0:24:57.920 fact there's no such thing as two genders. 0:24:58.160 --> 0:24:58.760 They think that. 0:24:58.640 --> 0:25:02.280 That's appropriate to teach child childre They won't acknowledge that 0:25:02.400 --> 0:25:06.960 teaching children difficult concepts like that might affect their development. Well, 0:25:07.000 --> 0:25:09.560 those two realities just can't be true. This movement is 0:25:09.560 --> 0:25:10.680 completely hypocritical. 0:25:11.680 --> 0:25:14.560 It's just nuts, Nick. Before I let you go, one 0:25:14.600 --> 0:25:17.240 thing though, that is common sense, and I am very 0:25:17.320 --> 0:25:20.080 very happy to see that it's been announced Cricket Australia. 0:25:20.359 --> 0:25:23.120 They're going to sing the national anthem on Australia Day 0:25:23.119 --> 0:25:25.680 when the Big Bash Final is on. I've got to say, 0:25:25.760 --> 0:25:28.760 well done, Cricket Australia. Common sense has prevailed. 0:25:30.320 --> 0:25:33.200 Well done Cricket Australia. I mean, we can all unite 0:25:33.200 --> 0:25:36.160 around the national anthem and the flag. Surely I only 0:25:36.200 --> 0:25:39.520 give this one cheer, though, Jamie, because I still think 0:25:39.560 --> 0:25:43.320 I'm an old fashioned guy. I still think that Australia 0:25:43.400 --> 0:25:45.359 Day is the day for the Adelaide Test. It should 0:25:45.400 --> 0:25:49.080 never have been taken away from Australia Day. And you know, 0:25:49.200 --> 0:25:50.840 Big Bash is all very well, but I think I 0:25:50.880 --> 0:25:51.640 prefer cricket. 0:25:52.200 --> 0:25:54.000 You know what, it's the Big Bash final. Nick. We 0:25:54.040 --> 0:25:55.800 can't have everything. At least you be able to watch 0:25:55.840 --> 0:25:58.920 cricket on Australia Day and sing the national anthem, Nick 0:25:58.920 --> 0:26:01.680 and miya. I will leave it there after the brig 0:26:01.720 --> 0:26:04.840 will cross to the UK where Glasgow is one week 0:26:04.880 --> 0:26:09.080 away from hosting the Commonwealth Games. The event Dan Andrews says, 0:26:09.240 --> 0:26:18.440 Victoria couldn't afford welcome back. It's great to have your 0:26:18.520 --> 0:26:21.840 company coming up the Prime Minister's promise to get on 0:26:21.880 --> 0:26:25.360 the front foot when it comes to AI. But now 0:26:25.440 --> 0:26:29.000 let's head across to the UK where Glasgow is gearing 0:26:29.080 --> 0:26:31.840 up for the Commonwealth Games that should have been hosted 0:26:31.840 --> 0:26:36.080 by Victoria until the Andrews Labor government dramatically pulled the pin. 0:26:36.480 --> 0:26:39.040 Here to discuss it and plenty more is Sky News 0:26:39.040 --> 0:26:44.440 contributor and News Corp Australia's European correspondent, Sophie Ellsworth Sophie, 0:26:44.480 --> 0:26:46.760 it's great to see you. We will get to the 0:26:46.760 --> 0:26:49.359 Glasgow Games in a moment, but I do want to 0:26:49.400 --> 0:26:53.680 get an update on this long farewell for Serkis starmer. 0:26:54.160 --> 0:26:57.080 Andy Burnham looks set to secure the leadership, so how 0:26:57.160 --> 0:26:58.960 long do you think this transition is going to take? 0:27:01.320 --> 0:27:03.600 Great to be with you, Jamie. Yes, we are looking 0:27:03.680 --> 0:27:06.359 to have our next Prime minister here in the UK 0:27:07.600 --> 0:27:11.679 put into the plumb role on Monday without any contest 0:27:11.840 --> 0:27:16.320 at all. Parliament also is due for a six week break, 0:27:16.359 --> 0:27:19.639 which means that Andy Burnham goes into ten Downing Street 0:27:20.000 --> 0:27:24.040 without giving the country really any idea what he stands for, 0:27:24.560 --> 0:27:26.639 and he won't be standing up in the House of 0:27:26.680 --> 0:27:30.600 Commons before he is appointed to this role. Now he's 0:27:30.600 --> 0:27:33.400 got the backing of about three hundred and fifty MPs. 0:27:33.720 --> 0:27:37.920 He's rolling into Downing Street uncontested and he just needs 0:27:37.920 --> 0:27:41.680 a backing of three labor affiliated groups or unions, which 0:27:41.720 --> 0:27:44.200 should occur. So we're looking to have a new prime 0:27:44.240 --> 0:27:47.040 minister with little idea of what he will deliver the 0:27:47.080 --> 0:27:50.200 country and then they go on this long recess. So 0:27:50.680 --> 0:27:54.160 it's definitely an interesting time here in the UK having 0:27:54.160 --> 0:27:56.720 a new leader without knowing a lot about what he 0:27:56.880 --> 0:27:58.360 actually stands for. 0:27:59.080 --> 0:28:02.840 Yeah, and especially fact that there's no contest around that either. 0:28:02.880 --> 0:28:04.840 For such a big role, I would have thought there 0:28:04.840 --> 0:28:06.600 would have been other people put in the hand up, 0:28:06.680 --> 0:28:10.120 but obviously not. But let's move on now to Andrew 0:28:10.160 --> 0:28:13.160 mount Baton Windsor. It's back in the saddle. He's been 0:28:13.160 --> 0:28:16.040 spotted riding for the first time since he was exiled 0:28:16.080 --> 0:28:21.040 by the royal family. What can you tell us about this? Well, 0:28:21.040 --> 0:28:21.520 that's right. 0:28:21.600 --> 0:28:25.520 Overnight there's been images that have emerged of the format 0:28:25.560 --> 0:28:29.840 Prince Andrew Andrew mount Baton Windsor riding on horseback around 0:28:29.920 --> 0:28:33.840 marsh farming is Sandringham estate. Now we know in February 0:28:33.880 --> 0:28:36.399 he was banned from riding horses. This is one of 0:28:36.440 --> 0:28:39.920 the things he really does enjoy, given he hasn't got 0:28:39.920 --> 0:28:42.840 a lot of enjoyment in his life because he's really 0:28:43.400 --> 0:28:47.600 persona on grada up there at Sandringham. But he has 0:28:47.720 --> 0:28:50.920 now been spotted riding horses which are up there for 0:28:50.960 --> 0:28:54.440 a short period. There's been a lot of criticism obviously 0:28:54.640 --> 0:28:58.480 and controversy surrounding out Andrew mount Baton Windsor. We know 0:28:58.640 --> 0:29:02.560 he was arrested on his birth Dane February. He remains 0:29:02.640 --> 0:29:07.840 under investigation by Metropolitan Police across the UK and the 0:29:07.840 --> 0:29:12.040 investigations are ongoing into his role as former trade end 0:29:12.080 --> 0:29:16.480 boy in the UK. So no charges for Andrew mount 0:29:16.480 --> 0:29:20.680 Batten Windsor. He's always denied any wrongdoing in any regard. 0:29:21.120 --> 0:29:23.120 But this story will not go away. 0:29:24.200 --> 0:29:27.800 Now the Commonwealth Games in Glasgow are just a week away. 0:29:28.080 --> 0:29:30.920 You're up there. I'm very jealous. Is the city ready? 0:29:33.400 --> 0:29:36.720 Well, Jamie, it's really interesting walking around Glasgow because we're 0:29:36.760 --> 0:29:40.800 a week out. There's not a lot of signage up 0:29:40.840 --> 0:29:44.600 here in Glasgow yet there doesn't seem to be a 0:29:44.600 --> 0:29:47.600 lot of enthusiasm. Now, look, this may all change in 0:29:47.640 --> 0:29:49.920 this space of a week because it's due to start 0:29:49.960 --> 0:29:54.160 here in Glasgow next Thursday. We know that Victorian taxpayers 0:29:54.440 --> 0:29:57.560 have handed over about two hundred million dollars because debt. 0:30:02.760 --> 0:30:06.120 We have lost Sophie Ellsworth there. We will move on 0:30:06.240 --> 0:30:10.200 now to our next guest in Toby Walsh, and this 0:30:10.240 --> 0:30:12.680 will be following on from the speech today from the 0:30:12.680 --> 0:30:17.080 Prime Minister focusing on AI and its impact in Australia. Now, 0:30:17.080 --> 0:30:19.200 there were some big promises and a bit of retrick 0:30:19.720 --> 0:30:22.680 and an opposition leader who says the government risks stifling 0:30:22.720 --> 0:30:26.160 business opportunity. So let's now get the take on the 0:30:26.200 --> 0:30:29.400 Prime Minister's proposals from the man who lost his gig 0:30:29.440 --> 0:30:32.720 as a member of the government scrapped AI Advisory Body, 0:30:33.120 --> 0:30:38.880 Chief Scientists at the Unswai Institute, Toby Walsh, Professor. Welcome. 0:30:39.600 --> 0:30:42.440 I'd love to get your initial response to this speech 0:30:42.480 --> 0:30:45.280 when he heard it today, it did seem like there 0:30:45.280 --> 0:30:48.600 were a lot of big statements about embracing AI, but 0:30:48.840 --> 0:30:52.520 very little in the way of concrete action. Did you 0:30:52.600 --> 0:30:55.560 hear anything that you thought will actually make a difference. 0:30:57.200 --> 0:30:59.920 You're right, it was a good speech. Addressed the issues 0:31:00.200 --> 0:31:04.240 troubling Australians, justifiably traveling Australians, the data centers being built 0:31:04.240 --> 0:31:06.800 in our backyards, the impact that AI is starting to 0:31:06.800 --> 0:31:09.640 have on people's jobs, the impact it's having on our 0:31:09.680 --> 0:31:12.520 creative industry, the impact is having on our kids. So 0:31:12.560 --> 0:31:15.400 he touched all of those significant concerns. It's great it's 0:31:15.400 --> 0:31:18.040 the Prime Minister. It's got to the top of government now, 0:31:18.600 --> 0:31:21.360 and it's great that they've decided to put the decision 0:31:21.360 --> 0:31:25.120 making all together in an office for AI in the 0:31:25.120 --> 0:31:27.200 Department of Prime misteric company. You don't get any higher 0:31:27.200 --> 0:31:30.000 than that. So it's getting his attention. But as you say, 0:31:30.320 --> 0:31:34.520 little short on details, short in investment. The great ambitions, 0:31:34.560 --> 0:31:36.400 but are they're going to put the money behind to 0:31:36.440 --> 0:31:38.440 succeed with these ambitions. 0:31:39.400 --> 0:31:41.360 And he did just make a good point that he 0:31:41.560 --> 0:31:46.320 is now creating the AI Office within the Prime Minister's 0:31:46.600 --> 0:31:49.959 wider department. The opposition have said this is now just 0:31:50.000 --> 0:31:52.880 going to be more bureaucracy. What do you think about that? 0:31:54.000 --> 0:31:56.800 It's a good idea. In fact, back in twenty nineteen, 0:31:57.040 --> 0:31:59.840 I was asked to write a report for the Cabinet 0:32:00.120 --> 0:32:03.120 made that very suggest this is a whole of economy 0:32:03.120 --> 0:32:05.280 transition that we're going through. You need a whole of 0:32:05.480 --> 0:32:08.720 government focus on all the different aspects. AI is going 0:32:08.760 --> 0:32:11.640 to change, changes in our laws, changes in our employment, 0:32:11.680 --> 0:32:14.280 changes in our education. You need to think about this 0:32:14.360 --> 0:32:16.440 in a big way. It's great it's got the Prime 0:32:16.480 --> 0:32:17.320 Minister on the case. 0:32:18.720 --> 0:32:23.280 Well, he is looking to legislate Australian standards and really 0:32:23.480 --> 0:32:26.360 clear rules for data centers. Now, I don't know if 0:32:26.360 --> 0:32:30.840 I'm being cynical, but this doesn't seem very groundbreaking. But 0:32:30.920 --> 0:32:33.760 he did offer some hope with stronger copyright protection for 0:32:33.800 --> 0:32:36.920 Australian artists and the media. Do you think that that's 0:32:37.040 --> 0:32:38.200 a good step forward. 0:32:39.880 --> 0:32:41.880 It is a good step toward. It was very pleased 0:32:41.880 --> 0:32:44.440 to him reaffirming his commitment that he wasn't going to 0:32:44.440 --> 0:32:47.760 weaken copyright laws. We should be we should be very 0:32:47.800 --> 0:32:50.000 outraged that the tech companies have stolen all of that 0:32:50.080 --> 0:32:54.480 intellectual property, have undermined perhaps the livelihood of our creatives, 0:32:54.480 --> 0:32:56.640 not just because of the economic value that they've stolen, 0:32:56.840 --> 0:32:59.160 but also for the cultural value that we value. Our 0:32:59.200 --> 0:33:03.400 culture greatly value Australian authors, filmmakers and musicians and we 0:33:03.440 --> 0:33:05.160 need to protect them. We don't need to sell them 0:33:05.160 --> 0:33:07.040 out for big tech investment. 0:33:07.880 --> 0:33:11.280 But how can you see that working, because this is 0:33:11.480 --> 0:33:13.280 a big beast that we need to tackle when it 0:33:13.320 --> 0:33:20.720 comes to AI training their bots using artists material or journalists' work. 0:33:21.240 --> 0:33:24.000 How do you see that actually in the long run 0:33:24.560 --> 0:33:29.080 facilitating with the Claude being happy with the copyright laws. 0:33:29.840 --> 0:33:32.320 You've got to realize that we're in a strong bargaining position. 0:33:32.440 --> 0:33:36.720 We have the second largest pipeline of data centers to 0:33:36.760 --> 0:33:39.080 being built here in Australia in the world. We're only 0:33:39.120 --> 0:33:41.600 the twelfth largest economy, so there are ten much larger 0:33:41.640 --> 0:33:44.680 economies which are less attractive in which to build data centers. 0:33:45.120 --> 0:33:47.400 So we've got plentiful reasons we want to build data 0:33:47.400 --> 0:33:52.400 centers here. Very stable politics, very stable economy, plentiful land, 0:33:52.440 --> 0:33:56.400 plentiful renewables, good submarine connections to the rest of the world. 0:33:56.480 --> 0:33:59.520 So there's no shortage of people wanting to build data 0:33:59.520 --> 0:34:02.600 centers here. And it's not like that they can't actually 0:34:02.640 --> 0:34:04.440 license the content and pay for the content. They've actually 0:34:04.480 --> 0:34:08.120 done some big licensing deals already with nine Media with 0:34:08.160 --> 0:34:10.160 the New York Times, so they can actually pay for 0:34:10.200 --> 0:34:13.120 the content. You have to understand the reason they're arguing 0:34:13.200 --> 0:34:15.719 so hard here in Australia is because they know that 0:34:15.719 --> 0:34:17.520 we're going to set an important precedent for the rest 0:34:17.520 --> 0:34:19.799 of the word. It's not because Australia matters so much 0:34:19.840 --> 0:34:22.839 to them, but because they know that Australia leads the way. 0:34:22.880 --> 0:34:26.280 We had the first social media age band in the world. 0:34:26.560 --> 0:34:29.560 Fifteen countries now have got one. Even the European units 0:34:29.560 --> 0:34:31.560 are discussing having a social media age bet, so they 0:34:31.600 --> 0:34:33.920 know what we decide here is going to set a 0:34:33.960 --> 0:34:36.200 standard for the rest of the world. That's why they're 0:34:36.200 --> 0:34:37.280 playing such hardball. 0:34:38.160 --> 0:34:40.120 Professor, I have to ask you about something that you 0:34:40.239 --> 0:34:43.960 just said in your answer that Australia has the renewables 0:34:44.000 --> 0:34:47.080 that would be able to power these data centers. Do 0:34:47.120 --> 0:34:50.480 you actually think that renewables is the solution to the 0:34:50.520 --> 0:34:54.240 amount of energy that's going to be required by these centers. 0:34:54.440 --> 0:34:57.480 Should something like I know nuclear is no longer got 0:34:57.480 --> 0:35:00.239 the moratorium on it, but should we be investing in 0:35:00.280 --> 0:35:02.480 something like the small modular reactors to be able to 0:35:02.600 --> 0:35:05.920 ensure that we have that reliable base load power or 0:35:05.960 --> 0:35:08.080 do you think that renewables is enough to be able 0:35:08.080 --> 0:35:09.920 to power these enormous centers. 0:35:10.920 --> 0:35:13.800 Yeah, great question. You've got to understand the size of 0:35:13.840 --> 0:35:16.120 these data centers. The largest one that's being built at 0:35:16.120 --> 0:35:18.279 the moment in Western Sydney, is going to be built 0:35:18.280 --> 0:35:20.640 in Western Sydney. It's going to use five percent of 0:35:20.640 --> 0:35:24.560 Australia's electricity. It's going to use more electricity than Adelaide. 0:35:24.880 --> 0:35:28.719 These are ginormous, great demands that we're looking at, and 0:35:29.120 --> 0:35:31.440 you're right, renewables is not going to provide that in 0:35:31.440 --> 0:35:33.920 the short term. I'm confident that we could build the 0:35:33.920 --> 0:35:36.239 renewables in the long term to be able to do that, 0:35:36.280 --> 0:35:38.280 but not in the short term, not at the speed 0:35:38.320 --> 0:35:40.160 with which they want these data centers to be built. 0:35:40.920 --> 0:35:44.080 That's the challenge we face here. It takes longer to 0:35:44.120 --> 0:35:46.960 build renewables than it does to build data centers. That's 0:35:47.000 --> 0:35:49.200 a difficult problem, and I've never seen you know, the 0:35:49.200 --> 0:35:50.840 Prime Minister didn't have a good answer for how are 0:35:50.840 --> 0:35:52.040 we going to square that circle. 0:35:52.800 --> 0:35:55.120 I know that's going to be a very interesting one 0:35:55.160 --> 0:35:58.000 as we see the amount of energy use and water 0:35:58.080 --> 0:36:00.799 use because we're not building any more dams. But before 0:36:00.840 --> 0:36:03.880 I let you go, you know, technology is always going 0:36:03.920 --> 0:36:06.799 to be faster than the regulation. What do you think 0:36:06.880 --> 0:36:09.640 is the answer here to ensure that we keep up 0:36:09.920 --> 0:36:12.240 but we don't impact opportunity at the same time. 0:36:13.320 --> 0:36:16.440 Well, in fact, I think if we don't regulate ospit intelligence, well, 0:36:16.480 --> 0:36:19.280 we will stifle innovation and we will repeat the mistakes 0:36:19.280 --> 0:36:21.520 of social media. So I'm pleased to see that we're 0:36:21.520 --> 0:36:23.520 a little more in front of the game here this 0:36:23.600 --> 0:36:26.400 time with social media, that we won't necessarily have to 0:36:26.400 --> 0:36:28.839 sacrifice the generation of young people to the harms that 0:36:29.160 --> 0:36:32.479 otherwise might come if we use it without any guard railers, 0:36:32.480 --> 0:36:35.000 without any regulation. So I'm pleased that we're having these 0:36:35.000 --> 0:36:38.319 conversations now, but we do have to be mindful that 0:36:38.360 --> 0:36:41.480 the tech companies have demonstrated frequently and as we put 0:36:41.560 --> 0:36:43.920 rules in the place that they will behave in ways 0:36:43.960 --> 0:36:47.880 that are harmful, harmful to young people, harmful to our society. 0:36:47.960 --> 0:36:50.480 So we have to put those rules in place and 0:36:50.520 --> 0:36:52.640 that will allow us to have the innovation that will 0:36:52.640 --> 0:36:54.600 actually grow our economy. 0:36:54.840 --> 0:36:59.560 Well, Professor Toby Walsh, I appreciate your insights. After the break, 0:36:59.719 --> 0:37:03.680 more the outcomes from the Royal Commission into anti Semitism, 0:37:03.800 --> 0:37:08.200 with university chiefs grilled over the lack of action on encampments. 0:37:08.480 --> 0:37:16.359 That's next, welcome back. We still have words with Kel 0:37:16.480 --> 0:37:20.319 to come up, so stay tuned. But now to the 0:37:20.320 --> 0:37:23.759 antisemitism Royal Commission, which in the last two days has 0:37:23.800 --> 0:37:29.680 heard confronting evidence of Jewish students and academics being harassed, assaulted, 0:37:29.719 --> 0:37:34.239 and intimidated on university campuses, raising fresh questions about whether 0:37:34.400 --> 0:37:38.320 universities have done enough to protect students and uphold free speech. 0:37:38.800 --> 0:37:42.240 Julian Lisa is the Shadow Minister for Education and joins 0:37:42.280 --> 0:37:46.759 me now. Julian, thank you for coming on Ha's Australia's 0:37:46.840 --> 0:37:50.360 university sector fundamentally failed Jewish students. 0:37:51.719 --> 0:37:54.680 Yes, Jamie, they've not only failed Jewish students, they've failed 0:37:54.719 --> 0:37:59.080 all Australian students because they've effectively taught Australian students a lesson, 0:38:00.000 --> 0:38:03.200 basically said to Australian students by their actions and lack 0:38:03.239 --> 0:38:07.279 of actions, that when someone's being intimidated and harassed, don't 0:38:07.320 --> 0:38:10.680 stand up for them, just let it go on. When 0:38:10.719 --> 0:38:12.799 there's a group of people who you want to get 0:38:12.800 --> 0:38:15.080 off your campus, don't stand up to them and be 0:38:15.120 --> 0:38:17.759 strong roll over to them, especially if they're a hate 0:38:17.800 --> 0:38:19.840 group that wants to run their ruler over all. 0:38:19.680 --> 0:38:20.880 Your defense contracts. 0:38:21.320 --> 0:38:24.800 And when your academic colleagues are being harassed by masked 0:38:24.800 --> 0:38:27.600 people coming into their room, by people urinating on their desks, 0:38:27.960 --> 0:38:32.120 downplay the significance. I think they've taught Australians a terrible lesson. 0:38:32.520 --> 0:38:36.160 It's why I've called our university leaders weaken, spineless, and 0:38:36.200 --> 0:38:39.600 why I've been calling since the end of twenty twenty 0:38:39.640 --> 0:38:42.320 three for some sort of royal commission, some sort of 0:38:42.400 --> 0:38:45.840 judicial inquiry into the anti Semitism that's been on our campuses. 0:38:46.239 --> 0:38:47.960 Long before October seven. 0:38:48.640 --> 0:38:50.920 Julian, I'm about to play you a grab from the 0:38:51.040 --> 0:38:54.560 University of Sydney Vice Chancellor Mark Scott. But just on 0:38:54.640 --> 0:38:58.000 all of those incidents that you just labeled as what's 0:38:58.000 --> 0:39:01.760 been going on in universities, can't help but think these 0:39:01.800 --> 0:39:05.279 are our future leaders and this is what they have 0:39:05.440 --> 0:39:09.600 been allowing to happen. And if we say that that's okay, 0:39:10.120 --> 0:39:13.040 I just hate to think what our future is going 0:39:13.080 --> 0:39:16.160 to look like with these sort of people getting away 0:39:16.200 --> 0:39:17.160 with this sort of behavior. 0:39:17.760 --> 0:39:19.320 That's exactly the point, Jamie. 0:39:19.400 --> 0:39:23.239 I mean, I think universities are life changing experiences at 0:39:23.280 --> 0:39:26.000 their best, they're the place that the next generation of 0:39:26.080 --> 0:39:29.040 leaders go to be formed. But the example that's been 0:39:29.080 --> 0:39:32.360 given to the next generation by the conduct of university 0:39:32.440 --> 0:39:35.160 leaders about how we treat our fellow Australians is a 0:39:35.280 --> 0:39:37.440 very dark one indeed, and sets us up for a 0:39:37.480 --> 0:39:40.719 country where some people get stood up for and other 0:39:40.760 --> 0:39:43.319 people are just othered. And that's not something I want 0:39:43.360 --> 0:39:47.080 to see my children or anyone's children learn. That's not 0:39:47.280 --> 0:39:49.000 a positive future for this country. 0:39:50.200 --> 0:39:53.520 So Mark Scott is the University of Sydney vice chancellor. 0:39:53.640 --> 0:39:55.960 Now this is what he said at the Royal Commission 0:39:56.040 --> 0:39:58.760 about the Pro Palestine student encampment. 0:40:00.040 --> 0:40:03.120 Will believe the pursuit of the peaceable. 0:40:03.440 --> 0:40:06.960 Resolution of the encampment was very important and to the 0:40:07.000 --> 0:40:08.799 long term benefit of the university. 0:40:09.400 --> 0:40:10.600 But I can see that our. 0:40:10.560 --> 0:40:14.279 Jewish students and staff paid a price for that as 0:40:14.320 --> 0:40:15.560 the encampment. 0:40:15.120 --> 0:40:19.040 Dragged on, and I am I am. 0:40:18.800 --> 0:40:21.200 Sorry to them that it took so long for us 0:40:21.200 --> 0:40:22.920 to get it done, and I'm. 0:40:22.760 --> 0:40:26.000 Sorry we did not keep them more closely engaged. 0:40:27.280 --> 0:40:31.080 Julian, when you hear that, what's your response to those comments? 0:40:31.960 --> 0:40:34.400 Well, look, it's good to hear that Mark Scott has 0:40:34.440 --> 0:40:37.319 owned up to the failures of his own university, as 0:40:37.320 --> 0:40:40.120 to some extent did Glenn Davis, the Vice Chancellor of 0:40:41.000 --> 0:40:44.279 the University of Melbourne today. But it's one thing when 0:40:44.280 --> 0:40:47.200 you've got half a dozen of Australia's top silks glaring 0:40:47.239 --> 0:40:50.160 at you and you're sitting before a retired High Court 0:40:50.320 --> 0:40:53.799 judge to be contricte. The real test for university vice 0:40:53.880 --> 0:40:58.880 chancellors now is will they properly adopt the University definition, 0:40:59.000 --> 0:41:03.160 the International Cost Remembrance Alliance definition that I wrote to 0:41:03.200 --> 0:41:06.319 them about back in twenty twenty two alongside Labor MP 0:41:06.520 --> 0:41:11.560 Josh Burns and tiarmp Alegraspender and five universities said. 0:41:11.320 --> 0:41:12.200 They'd adopted it. 0:41:12.560 --> 0:41:15.480 But as I've talked to vice chancellors as the shadow 0:41:15.560 --> 0:41:18.799 Education Minister, too many of them say, oh, we don't 0:41:18.840 --> 0:41:21.200 have a problem, why would we adopt it. Others say 0:41:21.440 --> 0:41:23.680 we don't want to adopt it, just legislate it. We 0:41:23.760 --> 0:41:27.400 can't take the fight, and others pretend they've adopted it 0:41:27.440 --> 0:41:29.279 but really haven't done anything at all. And there's a 0:41:29.320 --> 0:41:32.440 scathing report by one of their own, Greg Craven, a 0:41:32.440 --> 0:41:35.719 former vice chancellor, who finds not one single university in 0:41:35.760 --> 0:41:39.360 this country has properly adopted a definition, even a definition 0:41:39.400 --> 0:41:42.040 they themselves came up with eighteen months ago. So the 0:41:42.080 --> 0:41:44.880 time for mucking around is well and truly over fifteen 0:41:44.920 --> 0:41:48.160 people are dead at Bondi. They must adopt the International 0:41:48.160 --> 0:41:52.680 Holocaust Remembrance Alliance definition in full, and it must be 0:41:52.960 --> 0:41:56.360 adopted without without any further delay. 0:41:57.200 --> 0:42:00.520 It does seem, though, Julian, is that enough to adopt 0:42:00.600 --> 0:42:04.840 these definitions? Should there also be things like financial consequences 0:42:04.840 --> 0:42:08.040 for universities that fail to protect students. It just seems 0:42:08.080 --> 0:42:11.440 like we need something a lot more serious as a 0:42:11.480 --> 0:42:13.680 consequence for what's been happening. 0:42:14.360 --> 0:42:17.680 I couldn't agree more Jamie. But at the very first point, 0:42:17.680 --> 0:42:20.879 if you can't define what antisemitism is, you can't ever 0:42:20.960 --> 0:42:23.520 deal with it promptly. But I agree with you in 0:42:23.560 --> 0:42:27.359 relation to penalties for universities. It's why in December last year, 0:42:27.880 --> 0:42:31.960 the recommendation of the Special Endvy on Antisemitism, we put 0:42:32.000 --> 0:42:35.880 forward a proposal to basically make it a provider condition 0:42:36.120 --> 0:42:38.880 for a university to call itself a university that it 0:42:38.920 --> 0:42:40.640 properly deals with antisemitism. 0:42:41.200 --> 0:42:42.400 We'd look at the end that the. 0:42:43.960 --> 0:42:47.800 Special Invoice proposals to remove funding from academics who engaged 0:42:47.840 --> 0:42:52.319 anti Semitism and universities who continued to condain antisemitism. There 0:42:52.360 --> 0:42:55.040 do need to be financial penalties. And I make no 0:42:55.160 --> 0:42:58.400 apology for taking a tough stand and being prepared to 0:42:58.440 --> 0:43:02.120 exercise powers to bring the universities to heal on this issue. 0:43:02.600 --> 0:43:04.799 And Julian, just quickly before I let you go, you 0:43:04.880 --> 0:43:09.719 were with Opposition leader Angus Taylor today talking with small businesses. 0:43:10.000 --> 0:43:12.160 What are some of the things that you're hearing in 0:43:12.200 --> 0:43:12.920 your community. 0:43:13.920 --> 0:43:16.400 Well, we had Angus Taylor and Jane Hume visit for 0:43:16.440 --> 0:43:19.240 a special small business roundtable in my electric this morning, 0:43:19.600 --> 0:43:22.560 over one hundred and fifty small business people talking about 0:43:22.600 --> 0:43:26.000 the adverse effect of Labour's toxic taxes, taxes that the 0:43:26.000 --> 0:43:29.240 Prime Minister promised fifty times you wouldn't bring in taxes 0:43:29.320 --> 0:43:31.839 Labour took to the election in twenty nineteen and were 0:43:31.880 --> 0:43:34.719 roundly defeated on We've heard about the effect of those 0:43:34.800 --> 0:43:38.239 taxes on businesses in my electorate. We've heard about the 0:43:38.280 --> 0:43:42.000 burgeoning red tape burden across all sectors of the economy 0:43:42.600 --> 0:43:45.759 on businesses in the electorate. And we've also heard particular 0:43:45.840 --> 0:43:49.840 concerns about the coming taxes on trusts and the effect 0:43:49.880 --> 0:43:52.240 that that will have on small businesses even being prepared 0:43:52.280 --> 0:43:53.560 to have a go in the first place. 0:43:54.560 --> 0:43:56.799 Well, Julian, I think this is an opportunity for the 0:43:56.800 --> 0:43:59.480 Coalition to really show that you've got the backs of 0:43:59.480 --> 0:44:03.640 small business, says thank you for your time tonight. After 0:44:03.680 --> 0:44:12.520 the break Words Matter with Kel Richards, welcome back and 0:44:12.600 --> 0:44:15.320 joining the program as he always does on a Wednesday, 0:44:15.480 --> 0:44:19.600 is wordsmith and broadcaster Kel Richards and Kell, You've got 0:44:19.600 --> 0:44:23.319 some great words tonight. Let's start with offside. So this 0:44:23.360 --> 0:44:26.000 has come from Daryl who's asked for the origin of 0:44:26.000 --> 0:44:28.239 offside and onside in sport, I. 0:44:28.160 --> 0:44:30.560 Suspect he's been watching much too much of the World Cup. 0:44:31.040 --> 0:44:35.359 Offside is recorded eighteen thirty three, and it comes from 0:44:35.480 --> 0:44:39.600 rugby football as played at Rugby School, where they invented 0:44:39.640 --> 0:44:42.640 it and where the name comes from. And the original 0:44:42.719 --> 0:44:46.960 version of the expression was off your side, meaning out 0:44:47.000 --> 0:44:50.400 of the place where you're meant to be, and that 0:44:50.440 --> 0:44:52.600 full expression off your side is found in Tom Brown's 0:44:52.600 --> 0:44:55.879 school days, which is said in Rugby Rugby school. Then 0:44:55.920 --> 0:44:58.360 it got shorten to just offside. The one thing I 0:44:58.360 --> 0:45:01.240 can't give you is a precise definite, because it's different 0:45:01.239 --> 0:45:04.120 in every sport being offside and net ball is different 0:45:04.120 --> 0:45:06.880 from being offside in soccer. But it was originally just 0:45:07.000 --> 0:45:09.319 out of your place, off your side, offside. 0:45:10.680 --> 0:45:13.720 What about this one from Donner? The meaning of bald 0:45:13.760 --> 0:45:14.440 as a badger. 0:45:14.880 --> 0:45:18.920 This is fascinating. It means totally really hairless. But badgers 0:45:19.000 --> 0:45:21.799 are not more right, they're covered in fur. I've come 0:45:21.840 --> 0:45:24.320 across two theories, both of which I think are rubbish. 0:45:24.600 --> 0:45:27.239 The first one says the bald in that statement is 0:45:27.280 --> 0:45:29.799 a contraction of piebald, which is a very old word 0:45:30.080 --> 0:45:33.960 meaning multicolored, and badgers are mainly dark gray, but they've 0:45:33.960 --> 0:45:36.719 got the big white streak from their nose to their neck. 0:45:37.200 --> 0:45:40.200 But somehow that's not very convincing and it doesn't seem 0:45:40.239 --> 0:45:42.360 to fit in time wise. The other theory turned up 0:45:42.400 --> 0:45:45.120 in the eighteen hundreds, and it was because barbers used 0:45:45.280 --> 0:45:48.640 shaving brushes made out of badger fur. Now I can't 0:45:48.640 --> 0:45:51.480 see that generating bald as a badger either, So I'm sorry. 0:45:51.480 --> 0:45:52.920 I think both of you if you could, because you 0:45:52.920 --> 0:45:55.719 would put the shaving cream on the head and. 0:45:55.680 --> 0:45:57.919 Shave that large you don't shave your head. 0:45:58.480 --> 0:46:00.000 I do people shave their head? 0:46:00.360 --> 0:46:03.560 They do, Yeah, they do these days, I'm not sure. 0:46:03.600 --> 0:46:07.200 In the hundreds they did a lot. Look my best 0:46:07.200 --> 0:46:09.120 guess is I think it was actually coined and it 0:46:09.200 --> 0:46:11.720 caught on because of the alliteration between the two bees 0:46:11.760 --> 0:46:15.239 in balden badger. That works in the English language. And 0:46:15.280 --> 0:46:17.040 it would be interesting if it was more profound and 0:46:17.120 --> 0:46:19.239 there was a good story, But I think that's it. 0:46:20.080 --> 0:46:23.719 What about from Angela? Every dog has his day? 0:46:24.000 --> 0:46:26.680 This is a really nice one. It means everyone has 0:46:26.680 --> 0:46:30.120 an opportunity just because acceeded sometimes And this one was 0:46:30.160 --> 0:46:34.440 coined by Shakespeare, and he coined it in Hamlet at five, 0:46:34.560 --> 0:46:37.880 Scene one, and the English language is packed full of 0:46:37.920 --> 0:46:40.680 bits from Hamlet. There are lots of bits of I 0:46:40.800 --> 0:46:44.200 shuffle off this mortal coil. There are more things in 0:46:44.239 --> 0:46:46.400 heaven and Earth than a dreamt of in your philosophy. 0:46:46.560 --> 0:46:50.560 Things are rotten in the state of Denmark. For some reason. 0:46:50.719 --> 0:46:53.719 Hamlet is packedful of these expressions which have caught on 0:46:54.280 --> 0:46:56.400 and have become part of the language. Someone complained, the 0:46:56.400 --> 0:46:58.680 problem with Hamlet is it's full of quotations. 0:47:00.400 --> 0:47:03.279 I love it. Now there's two more that both I 0:47:03.320 --> 0:47:05.840 think are ones that I've always used and never actually 0:47:05.840 --> 0:47:08.799 thought too much into rhyme or reason. So this one's 0:47:08.800 --> 0:47:11.800 come from John, just asking what does the rhyme part 0:47:12.280 --> 0:47:12.799 refer to? 0:47:13.239 --> 0:47:16.160 It originally did refer to poetry. Rhyme or reason just 0:47:16.200 --> 0:47:19.000 means when you say there's no rhyme or reason, you're 0:47:19.040 --> 0:47:22.480 just saying it means nothing. It's it's rubbish. Comes into 0:47:22.480 --> 0:47:25.080 English about fourteen sixty. If you trace it back through 0:47:25.120 --> 0:47:27.719 the levels from where it came, it seems to go 0:47:27.800 --> 0:47:30.320 back to an old Latin expression. A single statement in 0:47:30.400 --> 0:47:32.600 Latin which I won't quote because I can't remember it 0:47:33.440 --> 0:47:37.520 which said poetry should have rhyme and meter or modulation, 0:47:37.600 --> 0:47:41.279 which in Latin was called reason. So it was originally 0:47:41.320 --> 0:47:46.120 identifying rubbish poetry, and then in English the expression gradually 0:47:46.600 --> 0:47:50.840 broadened to identify any utterance which was complete rubbish, So 0:47:50.960 --> 0:47:52.600 the rhyme was originally poetry. 0:47:52.640 --> 0:47:55.880 Now, Cay, we've got thirty seconds. Touch wood? What's its origin? 0:47:56.200 --> 0:47:59.480 Very old superstition that said trees were inhabited by spirits 0:48:00.120 --> 0:48:02.000 back a long way for the ancient Greeks. I think 0:48:02.040 --> 0:48:05.200 they call them diads living in trees, and every different 0:48:05.320 --> 0:48:08.000 mythology had its own name for them. Touching the wood 0:48:08.280 --> 0:48:11.319 was getting the support of the spirit in the tree 0:48:11.360 --> 0:48:12.040 to look after you. 0:48:12.320 --> 0:48:14.839 Oh, I love it because I touch wood all the time, 0:48:14.960 --> 0:48:16.440 so I don't jinx myself. Does it work? 0:48:16.560 --> 0:48:17.120 Does it work? 0:48:17.160 --> 0:48:17.359 Ah? 0:48:17.560 --> 0:48:20.680 I think so. Cal thank you and thank you for 0:48:20.719 --> 0:48:23.440 your company. Tonight. You'll see me again tomorrow night at 0:48:23.480 --> 0:48:25.200 six o'clock. The Bolt report is next.