WEBVTT - Defence’s day of reckoning

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<v Speaker 1>A warning before we start. This episode mentions suicide and

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<v Speaker 1>sexual violence from The Australian. Here's what's on the front.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Claire Harvey. It's Tuesday, September ten. One of Australia's

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<v Speaker 1>worst child sex offenders was given a redundancy by Uniting

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<v Speaker 1>Church Childcare Service with just forty four minutes of official consideration.

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<v Speaker 1>That's after a colleague had tried to report him for

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<v Speaker 1>allegedly abusing a child. Ashley Paul Griffith later pleaded guilty

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<v Speaker 1>to hundreds of charges of rape and sexual abuse. That

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<v Speaker 1>exclusive is live right now at the Australian dot com

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<v Speaker 1>dot au. The Electrical Trades Union is pushing for a

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<v Speaker 1>twenty percent pay rise for Sparkey's ahead of the federal election. Plus,

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<v Speaker 1>construction workers around the country will put their tools down

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<v Speaker 1>this week to attend rallies protesting the government's force take

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<v Speaker 1>over of the CFMU. A three thousand page Royal Commission

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<v Speaker 1>reporters recommended starting from scratch to curb veteran suicides and

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<v Speaker 1>clamp down on sexual violence in the Defense Force. Today

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<v Speaker 1>we meet some of the people devastated by defens's failures

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<v Speaker 1>and find out if this really means meaningful change. Andrew

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<v Speaker 1>Perry was a sniper in charge of keeping our troops

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<v Speaker 1>safe on bases in Iraq and Afghanistan. This is his wife,

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<v Speaker 1>Benita Perry, giving evidence at the Royal Commission into Veterans Suicide.

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<v Speaker 2>He was so funny. He was the funniest man in

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<v Speaker 2>the world. When he was working, he could be quite

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<v Speaker 2>black and white, but when he let his hand down,

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<v Speaker 2>in his guard down, he was just hysterical. There was

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<v Speaker 2>never a day that you got out of bed without

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<v Speaker 2>having laughed.

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<v Speaker 1>Benita's daughter, come I Alexander, was a toddler when Andrew

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<v Speaker 1>became her stepdad, someone she loved a lot. As she

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<v Speaker 1>grew older, Camiah noticed some of Andrew's personality traits, in

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<v Speaker 1>particular that he would either be seeking total control of

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<v Speaker 1>a situation or would be laughing and joking. She put

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<v Speaker 1>the stress down in part to his sadness over the

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<v Speaker 1>loss of contact with children from a previous relationship. She

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<v Speaker 1>was in her early teens when for the first time

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<v Speaker 1>the stress of Andrew's military deployments became clear.

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<v Speaker 3>We were on a boat with friends and I noticed

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<v Speaker 3>that fireworks had gone off. And Andrew responded with yelling

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<v Speaker 3>at the fireworks and saying, don't you know that people

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<v Speaker 3>have been to war, and he actually broke down in tears.

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<v Speaker 1>Camiah was in no doubt it was his war service

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<v Speaker 1>that had left Andrew in severe distress.

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<v Speaker 3>He was, unfortunately, very honest about how you would have

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<v Speaker 3>to do your rounds and around base, you know, monitoring everything.

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<v Speaker 3>And he had a group of children no older than

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<v Speaker 3>ten coming up to him and saying, I want you

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<v Speaker 3>to go check out. There's something down there that I

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<v Speaker 3>think needs to be looked at, and he's like, well,

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<v Speaker 3>you walk in front. And he said to me that

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<v Speaker 3>at that point he had zero regard for their life.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, if there was a bomb that they were

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<v Speaker 3>trying to lead him to, he was going to make

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<v Speaker 3>sure that they got hit first. And you know, going

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<v Speaker 3>from zero regard to their life to absolute regard for

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<v Speaker 3>his team, he could differentiate between you know, your life

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<v Speaker 3>not worth saving these ones at absolute paramount, and he himself,

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<v Speaker 3>unfortunately became one of those that it's not paramount.

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<v Speaker 1>When Camaia was aged between six seen at eighteen, Andrew

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<v Speaker 1>attempted to end his life seven times. After the second attempt,

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<v Speaker 1>he was diagnosed with post traumatic stress disorder. And severe anxiety.

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<v Speaker 2>He no longer cared for safety. It was like one

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<v Speaker 2>day went out to corroborreate Billibong and he was chasing

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<v Speaker 2>crocodiles because he wanted them to eat him. He was

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<v Speaker 2>just doing all these risky things. He could sleep for

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<v Speaker 2>days when the depression was really bad, or he could

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<v Speaker 2>just sit there and do nothing.

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<v Speaker 1>In twenty fifteen, Andrew died by suicide. Bonnie Perry said

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<v Speaker 1>she had tried with no success, to get help for Andrew.

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<v Speaker 1>She said he was badly mismanaged by the Australian Defense Force.

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<v Speaker 1>Bonnie said there was a shroud of secrecy about mental

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<v Speaker 1>health problems. She said Defense sent senior officers to visit

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<v Speaker 1>him in hospital instead of his mates, and that he

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<v Speaker 1>wasn't help to access a pension, which left him feeling

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<v Speaker 1>terrified about not being able to support his family. She

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<v Speaker 1>said it took six months for him to get mental

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<v Speaker 1>health treatment in the first place, and that he was

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<v Speaker 1>treated with a lack of compassion.

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<v Speaker 2>I just don't understand how the ADF can see all

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<v Speaker 2>those suicide attempts. You know, how many red flags do

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<v Speaker 2>you want? You know, a guy should shouldn't be successful

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<v Speaker 2>on his eighth attempt. It's crazy.

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<v Speaker 1>She described this conversation with a senior medical officer who

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<v Speaker 1>discharged Andrew from hospital after one of his suicide attempts,

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<v Speaker 1>and just.

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<v Speaker 2>Said, how come Andrew's home And he said, excuse my language,

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<v Speaker 2>but he said, Bonnie, he's not a threat to himself

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<v Speaker 2>or to take his life. He said. I just told

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<v Speaker 2>him he's a shit husband that really needs to learn

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<v Speaker 2>how to treat women better. I told him that I

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<v Speaker 2>wanted him to go for five days, not contact you,

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<v Speaker 2>and go away and have a good heart think about things.

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<v Speaker 2>And then at eight point thirty the police car rocked

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<v Speaker 2>up out of the front and I knew it as

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<v Speaker 2>soon as I saw him. I said, he's gone, as

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<v Speaker 2>an inn. They said, yes, we've just found his body.

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<v Speaker 1>That story is part of the catalyst for a shocking

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<v Speaker 1>report tabled in Federal Parliament. It found sixteen hundred and

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<v Speaker 1>seventy seven serving and ex serving defense personnel died by

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<v Speaker 1>suicide between nineteen ninety seven and twenty twenty one. That's

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<v Speaker 1>more than twenty times the number killed in active duty

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<v Speaker 1>over the same period. The Royal Commission found deep problems

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<v Speaker 1>with both Defense and the Department of Veterans Affairs and

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<v Speaker 1>recommended a new agency within Veterans Affairs to actively help

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<v Speaker 1>outgoing defense personnel, to support them into a new life,

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<v Speaker 1>to access the services that are available, and support them

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<v Speaker 1>and their families to stay alive.

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<v Speaker 4>It's a shocking report, Claire, and it shines a light

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<v Speaker 4>on what's a terrible national tragedy.

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<v Speaker 1>Joe Kelly is The Australian's National Affairs editor. The report

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<v Speaker 1>was commissioned by the Morrison government under pressure from veterans

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<v Speaker 1>bereaved families, and now it's the Albanese government which will

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<v Speaker 1>have to handle the response.

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<v Speaker 5>We will work across the parliament on those issues and

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<v Speaker 5>do what we can to ensure that just as our

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<v Speaker 5>veterans and defense personnel step up for our country, we

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<v Speaker 5>have an obligation to step up for them.

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<v Speaker 6>I look forward to doing what we can on this side,

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<v Speaker 6>to work in good nature and with honor with the

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<v Speaker 6>Minister to make sure whatever can be done can be

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<v Speaker 6>done as quickly and as properly as possible and to

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<v Speaker 6>the best of our ability.

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<v Speaker 4>The Labor Party in the coalition believes there is a

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<v Speaker 4>significant problem, that this is a national failing, that governments

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<v Speaker 4>of Labor and conservative characteristics have let down veterans in

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<v Speaker 4>the past. They've been let down by Defense, They've been

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<v Speaker 4>let down by the Department of Veterans Affairs, and it

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<v Speaker 4>must be fixed. Very encouraging, but the second point is

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<v Speaker 4>getting on with the job now. Will need to give

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<v Speaker 4>the government sometime to devise its response and its solution,

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<v Speaker 4>and we'll get an idea of what that is in

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<v Speaker 4>the not too distant future.

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<v Speaker 1>Coming up, Defense's sexual violence problem. Subscribers to The Australian

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<v Speaker 1>get access to this kind of in depth reporting and

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<v Speaker 1>analysis twenty four to seven. Check us out at the

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<v Speaker 1>Australian dot com dot au and we'll be back after

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<v Speaker 1>this break.

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<v Speaker 7>So I guess my story starts back in a little

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<v Speaker 7>country town where I was looking for opportunities to have

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<v Speaker 7>a career, get something outside of a small country town.

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<v Speaker 7>And one day one of those Defense Force recruitment vans

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<v Speaker 7>pulled up in the main street and I took my

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<v Speaker 7>look at it and went, that's for me. This is

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<v Speaker 7>my ticket out of town.

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<v Speaker 1>That's the voice of Danny Levisage. He's describing how in

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen eighty eight he said goodbye to his tiny hometown

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<v Speaker 1>of Dalsford in Victoria and set off for what he

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<v Speaker 1>hoped would be a long career in the Air Force.

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<v Speaker 7>My dad was very proud of me. He was very

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<v Speaker 7>proud of me joining, and he was very proud to

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<v Speaker 7>be there that day, as was my whole family and

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<v Speaker 7>friends to see me graduate.

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<v Speaker 1>Danny became known as the twenty year Man among his

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<v Speaker 1>fellow emen because of his aspiration to retire at age

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<v Speaker 1>forty two with a full military pension. But less than

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<v Speaker 1>two years after celebrating his graduation, Danny would be discharged

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<v Speaker 1>from Defense. Danny is gay, which was unacceptable under the

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<v Speaker 1>Defense Act, legislation that was drafted in nineteen oh three

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<v Speaker 1>and was still in effect in the late eighties and

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<v Speaker 1>early nineties. An excerpt of the Act is being read

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<v Speaker 1>by a voice actor.

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<v Speaker 8>Homosexual behavior is not a accepted or condoned in the

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<v Speaker 8>Defense Force. Members can be and are regularly discharged for

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<v Speaker 8>a variety of reasons. Not listed in the DFDA. ADF

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<v Speaker 8>policy is that members who engage in consenting homosexual behavior

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<v Speaker 8>be treated in a similar fashion, sympathetically and with discretion.

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<v Speaker 1>Danny Livisig had been observed visiting gay bars in and

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<v Speaker 1>around Melbourne, and so he was hauled in for an

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<v Speaker 1>interview and asked to explain himself.

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<v Speaker 7>Eventually, their questioning got down to lac levisage, are you

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<v Speaker 7>a homosexual? And it was the very first time I

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<v Speaker 7>ever said it out loud. Yes, I believe I'm homosexual.

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<v Speaker 7>They forced me to put a tag on myself, which

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<v Speaker 7>I wasn't prepared at that stage to put that tag

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<v Speaker 7>on myself.

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<v Speaker 1>It was a traumatic experience and I'm.

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<v Speaker 7>Sitting there terrified, absolutely terrified. I've been humiliated. I'm feeling

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<v Speaker 7>absolutely ashamed of myself. I hate myself for this aspect

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<v Speaker 7>to myself that I've just been forced to put a

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<v Speaker 7>tag on by someone else sitting on the table with

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<v Speaker 7>four people. And it got worse from there, in didn't

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<v Speaker 7>get better.

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<v Speaker 1>Danny was told homosexuality was incompatible with military service. Senior

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<v Speaker 1>personnel said he'd be outed, dishonorably discharged and his training

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<v Speaker 1>records would be withheld if he didn't leave then and

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<v Speaker 1>there of his own volition.

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<v Speaker 7>And they effectively told the twenty year man that your

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<v Speaker 7>career is over and here are you three terrible options.

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<v Speaker 7>One's not so bad, one's really bad, and one's just

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<v Speaker 7>to go nowhere option and threatening dishonorable discharge and withholding

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<v Speaker 7>of the records was apparently their sympathetic way of dealing

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<v Speaker 7>with the homosexual in the Air Force.

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<v Speaker 1>Danny lived on base, so he lost his job and

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<v Speaker 1>his home. He didn't have time to say goodbye to

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<v Speaker 1>his friends or explain what was happening, and he wasn't

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<v Speaker 1>allowed to keep any insignia issued over the course of

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<v Speaker 1>his service. With no support nowhere Togo, he slept the

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<v Speaker 1>next two nights in his car. What followed was a

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<v Speaker 1>cycle of depression, anxiety, substance use and suicidal ideation.

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<v Speaker 7>At that point in time, I'd gone from being a loyal, committed,

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<v Speaker 7>enthusiastic member of the Air Force to jobless, unemployed, homeless

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<v Speaker 7>living in my car, surrounded my possessions in the space

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<v Speaker 7>of less than two weeks. That was a lot for

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<v Speaker 7>a twenty three year old to be dealing with at

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<v Speaker 7>that point in time. That jehole career has gone up

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<v Speaker 7>and smoked in two weeks, and you're now living in

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<v Speaker 7>your car on the side of the street. That's what

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<v Speaker 7>they did to me.

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<v Speaker 1>The ban on gay and lesbian personnel in the eightyf

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<v Speaker 1>was lifted by the Keyting government in nineteen ninety two,

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<v Speaker 1>just two years after Danny Leversage was bounced out of

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<v Speaker 1>the force. It took three decades for his story to

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<v Speaker 1>be heard at the Royal Commission and hopefully for change

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<v Speaker 1>to follow. One of the report's most stark findings is

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<v Speaker 1>that this problem is not just about suicide, it's the

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<v Speaker 1>physical safety of personnel serving today in military jobs. Here's

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<v Speaker 1>Joe Kelly.

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<v Speaker 4>There is a problem with sexual violence in the ADF,

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<v Speaker 4>the majority of which is obviously perpetrated by men, but

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<v Speaker 4>the report says this is a highly concerning development. It

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<v Speaker 4>says that close to eight hundred sexual assaults were reported

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<v Speaker 4>in the ADF over the past five years, and Defense

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<v Speaker 4>estimates that sixty percent of sexual assaults are not reported

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<v Speaker 4>at all. And there were multiple submissions to this Royal

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<v Speaker 4>Commission from victims which included both historic and contemporary accounts

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<v Speaker 4>of being gang raped, including by fellow serving members of

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<v Speaker 4>the ADF. So this is shocking, it's completely unacceptable. The

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<v Speaker 4>report goes into detail about the fact that this kind

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<v Speaker 4>of sexual violence has on serving and ex serving members,

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<v Speaker 4>and the report has actually also recommended a further inquiry

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<v Speaker 4>into sexual violence within ADF.

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<v Speaker 1>Joe Kelly is the Australian's National Affairs editor. Thanks for

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<v Speaker 1>joining us on the front and please join ours subscribers

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<v Speaker 1>at the Australian dot com.

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<v Speaker 7>DOREU