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Speaker 1: A warning before we start. This episode mentions suicide and

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Speaker 1: sexual violence from The Australian. Here's what's on the front.

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Speaker 1: I'm Claire Harvey. It's Tuesday, September ten. One of Australia's

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Speaker 1: worst child sex offenders was given a redundancy by Uniting

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Speaker 1: Church Childcare Service with just forty four minutes of official consideration.

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Speaker 1: That's after a colleague had tried to report him for

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Speaker 1: allegedly abusing a child. Ashley Paul Griffith later pleaded guilty

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Speaker 1: to hundreds of charges of rape and sexual abuse. That

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Speaker 1: exclusive is live right now at the Australian dot com

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Speaker 1: dot au. The Electrical Trades Union is pushing for a

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Speaker 1: twenty percent pay rise for Sparkey's ahead of the federal election. Plus,

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Speaker 1: construction workers around the country will put their tools down

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Speaker 1: this week to attend rallies protesting the government's force take

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Speaker 1: over of the CFMU. A three thousand page Royal Commission

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Speaker 1: reporters recommended starting from scratch to curb veteran suicides and

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Speaker 1: clamp down on sexual violence in the Defense Force. Today

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Speaker 1: we meet some of the people devastated by defens's failures

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Speaker 1: and find out if this really means meaningful change. Andrew

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Speaker 1: Perry was a sniper in charge of keeping our troops

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Speaker 1: safe on bases in Iraq and Afghanistan. This is his wife,

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Speaker 1: Benita Perry, giving evidence at the Royal Commission into Veterans Suicide.

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Speaker 2: He was so funny. He was the funniest man in

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Speaker 2: the world. When he was working, he could be quite

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Speaker 2: black and white, but when he let his hand down,

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Speaker 2: in his guard down, he was just hysterical. There was

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Speaker 2: never a day that you got out of bed without

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Speaker 2: having laughed.

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Speaker 1: Benita's daughter, come I Alexander, was a toddler when Andrew

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Speaker 1: became her stepdad, someone she loved a lot. As she

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Speaker 1: grew older, Camiah noticed some of Andrew's personality traits, in

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Speaker 1: particular that he would either be seeking total control of

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Speaker 1: a situation or would be laughing and joking. She put

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Speaker 1: the stress down in part to his sadness over the

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Speaker 1: loss of contact with children from a previous relationship. She

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Speaker 1: was in her early teens when for the first time

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Speaker 1: the stress of Andrew's military deployments became clear.

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Speaker 3: We were on a boat with friends and I noticed

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Speaker 3: that fireworks had gone off. And Andrew responded with yelling

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Speaker 3: at the fireworks and saying, don't you know that people

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Speaker 3: have been to war, and he actually broke down in tears.

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Speaker 1: Camiah was in no doubt it was his war service

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Speaker 1: that had left Andrew in severe distress.

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Speaker 3: He was, unfortunately, very honest about how you would have

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Speaker 3: to do your rounds and around base, you know, monitoring everything.

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Speaker 3: And he had a group of children no older than

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Speaker 3: ten coming up to him and saying, I want you

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Speaker 3: to go check out. There's something down there that I

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Speaker 3: think needs to be looked at, and he's like, well,

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Speaker 3: you walk in front. And he said to me that

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Speaker 3: at that point he had zero regard for their life.

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Speaker 3: You know, if there was a bomb that they were

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Speaker 3: trying to lead him to, he was going to make

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Speaker 3: sure that they got hit first. And you know, going

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Speaker 3: from zero regard to their life to absolute regard for

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Speaker 3: his team, he could differentiate between you know, your life

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Speaker 3: not worth saving these ones at absolute paramount, and he himself,

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Speaker 3: unfortunately became one of those that it's not paramount.

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Speaker 1: When Camaia was aged between six seen at eighteen, Andrew

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Speaker 1: attempted to end his life seven times. After the second attempt,

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Speaker 1: he was diagnosed with post traumatic stress disorder. And severe anxiety.

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Speaker 2: He no longer cared for safety. It was like one

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Speaker 2: day went out to corroborreate Billibong and he was chasing

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Speaker 2: crocodiles because he wanted them to eat him. He was

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Speaker 2: just doing all these risky things. He could sleep for

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Speaker 2: days when the depression was really bad, or he could

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Speaker 2: just sit there and do nothing.

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Speaker 1: In twenty fifteen, Andrew died by suicide. Bonnie Perry said

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Speaker 1: she had tried with no success, to get help for Andrew.

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Speaker 1: She said he was badly mismanaged by the Australian Defense Force.

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Speaker 1: Bonnie said there was a shroud of secrecy about mental

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Speaker 1: health problems. She said Defense sent senior officers to visit

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Speaker 1: him in hospital instead of his mates, and that he

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Speaker 1: wasn't help to access a pension, which left him feeling

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Speaker 1: terrified about not being able to support his family. She

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Speaker 1: said it took six months for him to get mental

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Speaker 1: health treatment in the first place, and that he was

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Speaker 1: treated with a lack of compassion.

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Speaker 2: I just don't understand how the ADF can see all

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Speaker 2: those suicide attempts. You know, how many red flags do

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Speaker 2: you want? You know, a guy should shouldn't be successful

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Speaker 2: on his eighth attempt. It's crazy.

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Speaker 1: She described this conversation with a senior medical officer who

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Speaker 1: discharged Andrew from hospital after one of his suicide attempts,

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Speaker 1: and just.

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Speaker 2: Said, how come Andrew's home And he said, excuse my language,

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Speaker 2: but he said, Bonnie, he's not a threat to himself

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Speaker 2: or to take his life. He said. I just told

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Speaker 2: him he's a shit husband that really needs to learn

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Speaker 2: how to treat women better. I told him that I

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Speaker 2: wanted him to go for five days, not contact you,

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Speaker 2: and go away and have a good heart think about things.

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Speaker 2: And then at eight point thirty the police car rocked

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Speaker 2: up out of the front and I knew it as

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Speaker 2: soon as I saw him. I said, he's gone, as

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Speaker 2: an inn. They said, yes, we've just found his body.

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Speaker 1: That story is part of the catalyst for a shocking

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Speaker 1: report tabled in Federal Parliament. It found sixteen hundred and

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Speaker 1: seventy seven serving and ex serving defense personnel died by

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Speaker 1: suicide between nineteen ninety seven and twenty twenty one. That's

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Speaker 1: more than twenty times the number killed in active duty

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Speaker 1: over the same period. The Royal Commission found deep problems

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Speaker 1: with both Defense and the Department of Veterans Affairs and

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Speaker 1: recommended a new agency within Veterans Affairs to actively help

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Speaker 1: outgoing defense personnel, to support them into a new life,

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Speaker 1: to access the services that are available, and support them

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Speaker 1: and their families to stay alive.

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Speaker 4: It's a shocking report, Claire, and it shines a light

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Speaker 4: on what's a terrible national tragedy.

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Speaker 1: Joe Kelly is The Australian's National Affairs editor. The report

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Speaker 1: was commissioned by the Morrison government under pressure from veterans

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Speaker 1: bereaved families, and now it's the Albanese government which will

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Speaker 1: have to handle the response.

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Speaker 5: We will work across the parliament on those issues and

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Speaker 5: do what we can to ensure that just as our

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Speaker 5: veterans and defense personnel step up for our country, we

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Speaker 5: have an obligation to step up for them.

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Speaker 6: I look forward to doing what we can on this side,

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Speaker 6: to work in good nature and with honor with the

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Speaker 6: Minister to make sure whatever can be done can be

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Speaker 6: done as quickly and as properly as possible and to

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Speaker 6: the best of our ability.

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Speaker 4: The Labor Party in the coalition believes there is a

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Speaker 4: significant problem, that this is a national failing, that governments

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Speaker 4: of Labor and conservative characteristics have let down veterans in

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Speaker 4: the past. They've been let down by Defense, They've been

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Speaker 4: let down by the Department of Veterans Affairs, and it

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Speaker 4: must be fixed. Very encouraging, but the second point is

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Speaker 4: getting on with the job now. Will need to give

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Speaker 4: the government sometime to devise its response and its solution,

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Speaker 4: and we'll get an idea of what that is in

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Speaker 4: the not too distant future.

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Speaker 1: Coming up, Defense's sexual violence problem. Subscribers to The Australian

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Speaker 1: get access to this kind of in depth reporting and

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Speaker 1: analysis twenty four to seven. Check us out at the

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Speaker 1: Australian dot com dot au and we'll be back after

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Speaker 1: this break.

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Speaker 7: So I guess my story starts back in a little

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Speaker 7: country town where I was looking for opportunities to have

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Speaker 7: a career, get something outside of a small country town.

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Speaker 7: And one day one of those Defense Force recruitment vans

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Speaker 7: pulled up in the main street and I took my

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Speaker 7: look at it and went, that's for me. This is

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Speaker 7: my ticket out of town.

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Speaker 1: That's the voice of Danny Levisage. He's describing how in

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Speaker 1: nineteen eighty eight he said goodbye to his tiny hometown

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Speaker 1: of Dalsford in Victoria and set off for what he

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Speaker 1: hoped would be a long career in the Air Force.

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Speaker 7: My dad was very proud of me. He was very

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Speaker 7: proud of me joining, and he was very proud to

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Speaker 7: be there that day, as was my whole family and

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Speaker 7: friends to see me graduate.

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Speaker 1: Danny became known as the twenty year Man among his

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Speaker 1: fellow emen because of his aspiration to retire at age

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Speaker 1: forty two with a full military pension. But less than

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Speaker 1: two years after celebrating his graduation, Danny would be discharged

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Speaker 1: from Defense. Danny is gay, which was unacceptable under the

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Speaker 1: Defense Act, legislation that was drafted in nineteen oh three

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Speaker 1: and was still in effect in the late eighties and

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Speaker 1: early nineties. An excerpt of the Act is being read

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Speaker 1: by a voice actor.

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Speaker 8: Homosexual behavior is not a accepted or condoned in the

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Speaker 8: Defense Force. Members can be and are regularly discharged for

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Speaker 8: a variety of reasons. Not listed in the DFDA. ADF

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Speaker 8: policy is that members who engage in consenting homosexual behavior

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Speaker 8: be treated in a similar fashion, sympathetically and with discretion.

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Speaker 1: Danny Livisig had been observed visiting gay bars in and

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Speaker 1: around Melbourne, and so he was hauled in for an

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Speaker 1: interview and asked to explain himself.

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Speaker 7: Eventually, their questioning got down to lac levisage, are you

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Speaker 7: a homosexual? And it was the very first time I

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Speaker 7: ever said it out loud. Yes, I believe I'm homosexual.

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Speaker 7: They forced me to put a tag on myself, which

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Speaker 7: I wasn't prepared at that stage to put that tag

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Speaker 7: on myself.

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Speaker 1: It was a traumatic experience and I'm.

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Speaker 7: Sitting there terrified, absolutely terrified. I've been humiliated. I'm feeling

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Speaker 7: absolutely ashamed of myself. I hate myself for this aspect

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Speaker 7: to myself that I've just been forced to put a

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Speaker 7: tag on by someone else sitting on the table with

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Speaker 7: four people. And it got worse from there, in didn't

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Speaker 7: get better.

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Speaker 1: Danny was told homosexuality was incompatible with military service. Senior

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Speaker 1: personnel said he'd be outed, dishonorably discharged and his training

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Speaker 1: records would be withheld if he didn't leave then and

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Speaker 1: there of his own volition.

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Speaker 7: And they effectively told the twenty year man that your

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Speaker 7: career is over and here are you three terrible options.

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Speaker 7: One's not so bad, one's really bad, and one's just

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Speaker 7: to go nowhere option and threatening dishonorable discharge and withholding

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Speaker 7: of the records was apparently their sympathetic way of dealing

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Speaker 7: with the homosexual in the Air Force.

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Speaker 1: Danny lived on base, so he lost his job and

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Speaker 1: his home. He didn't have time to say goodbye to

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Speaker 1: his friends or explain what was happening, and he wasn't

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Speaker 1: allowed to keep any insignia issued over the course of

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Speaker 1: his service. With no support nowhere Togo, he slept the

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Speaker 1: next two nights in his car. What followed was a

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Speaker 1: cycle of depression, anxiety, substance use and suicidal ideation.

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Speaker 7: At that point in time, I'd gone from being a loyal, committed,

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Speaker 7: enthusiastic member of the Air Force to jobless, unemployed, homeless

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Speaker 7: living in my car, surrounded my possessions in the space

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Speaker 7: of less than two weeks. That was a lot for

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Speaker 7: a twenty three year old to be dealing with at

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Speaker 7: that point in time. That jehole career has gone up

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Speaker 7: and smoked in two weeks, and you're now living in

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Speaker 7: your car on the side of the street. That's what

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Speaker 7: they did to me.

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Speaker 1: The ban on gay and lesbian personnel in the eightyf

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Speaker 1: was lifted by the Keyting government in nineteen ninety two,

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Speaker 1: just two years after Danny Leversage was bounced out of

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Speaker 1: the force. It took three decades for his story to

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Speaker 1: be heard at the Royal Commission and hopefully for change

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Speaker 1: to follow. One of the report's most stark findings is

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Speaker 1: that this problem is not just about suicide, it's the

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Speaker 1: physical safety of personnel serving today in military jobs. Here's

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Speaker 1: Joe Kelly.

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Speaker 4: There is a problem with sexual violence in the ADF,

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Speaker 4: the majority of which is obviously perpetrated by men, but

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Speaker 4: the report says this is a highly concerning development. It

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Speaker 4: says that close to eight hundred sexual assaults were reported

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Speaker 4: in the ADF over the past five years, and Defense

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Speaker 4: estimates that sixty percent of sexual assaults are not reported

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Speaker 4: at all. And there were multiple submissions to this Royal

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Speaker 4: Commission from victims which included both historic and contemporary accounts

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Speaker 4: of being gang raped, including by fellow serving members of

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Speaker 4: the ADF. So this is shocking, it's completely unacceptable. The

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Speaker 4: report goes into detail about the fact that this kind

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Speaker 4: of sexual violence has on serving and ex serving members,

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Speaker 4: and the report has actually also recommended a further inquiry

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Speaker 4: into sexual violence within ADF.

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Speaker 1: Joe Kelly is the Australian's National Affairs editor. Thanks for

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Speaker 1: joining us on the front and please join ours subscribers

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Speaker 1: at the Australian dot com.

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Speaker 7: DOREU