1 00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:08,600 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Fear and Greed Business Interview. I'm Sean Almer. 2 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:12,760 Speaker 1: Nearly nine in ten Australians aged over forty five are 3 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:15,360 Speaker 1: worried about running out of money in retirement, and yet 4 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:18,000 Speaker 1: only twelve percent of people have spoken to an expert 5 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:21,639 Speaker 1: in superannuation and retirement planning. These are some of the 6 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:25,720 Speaker 1: headline findings of Aware Super's State of Retirement report, and 7 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:28,400 Speaker 1: considering the importance of planning ahead when it comes to SUBER, 8 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:32,080 Speaker 1: I'd say it's pretty alarming. Katrina McPhee is the chief 9 00:00:32,120 --> 00:00:35,160 Speaker 1: of staff at Aware Suber. Kat Welcome to Fear and Greed. 10 00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 2: Thank you, Sean. It's a pleasure to be here. 11 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:42,080 Speaker 1: So did it surprise you how anxious people are about retirement? 12 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:45,040 Speaker 2: Look at Sean. In some ways yes, and then some 13 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:48,080 Speaker 2: ways no. Right. I guess retirement is one of the 14 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:51,080 Speaker 2: most significant moments in a person's life. It's a big 15 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:53,400 Speaker 2: mark to an end of a really long era of 16 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:57,600 Speaker 2: working and possibly family obligations and all sorts of other 17 00:00:57,640 --> 00:00:59,560 Speaker 2: things going on. And then you have this moment where 18 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:02,279 Speaker 2: you have a an epiphany that you have control over 19 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:04,720 Speaker 2: your time, and then you think, oh gosh, all right, 20 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:07,120 Speaker 2: how do I afford this, What am I going to do? 21 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:10,400 Speaker 2: How do I stay firm healthy? And then you combine 22 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:12,000 Speaker 2: that with things that are going on in the market 23 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 2: right now, whether it be cost of living crisis or 24 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:18,679 Speaker 2: housing crisis, and how to help my kids, and then 25 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:22,760 Speaker 2: markets and everything else. I'm not surprised, but the number 26 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 2: was really high and it's close nine out of ten 27 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:30,880 Speaker 2: Australians are really quite concerned or anxious about what retirement 28 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:31,480 Speaker 2: means for them. 29 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:34,760 Speaker 1: And then kind of even pushing further this four oh 30 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:39,600 Speaker 1: fear of running out concept it's worsened, is that because 31 00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:41,000 Speaker 1: of the cost of living crisis. 32 00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:45,080 Speaker 2: Absolutely sorry, the figure is actually around that sixty seventy 33 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 2: percent of feeling anxious or concerned. It's nine out of 34 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 2: ten that are feeling really concerned that the money is 35 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 2: going to run out, and that is directly related to 36 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:55,840 Speaker 2: cost of living. And we're actually seeing people make retirement 37 00:01:55,880 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 2: decisions or unretirement decisions on the basis of real being 38 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 2: worried about whether the money is going to last or not. 39 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 1: Okay, so let's take me through some of the findings 40 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:09,480 Speaker 1: from the report, which I have in front of me here. 41 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:12,800 Speaker 1: What I thought was in some of those retired people 42 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:16,160 Speaker 1: retiring later than I expected. In some cases. What amazed 43 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:18,600 Speaker 1: me more than twenty percent are actually returning to work 44 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:19,800 Speaker 1: once they've retired. 45 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, no, that was fascinating. And now it's not all 46 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:24,959 Speaker 2: doom and gloom in there. There is a large majority 47 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:28,160 Speaker 2: that are doing that because they are really worried about 48 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 2: whether their money is going to last or not. But 49 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 2: there are some who are returning to the workforce more 50 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:35,280 Speaker 2: out of that sense of connection and that sense of 51 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:37,960 Speaker 2: purpose or contribution, or that rhythm and life that work 52 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 2: gave them and they really missed that once they finish, 53 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 2: a big part of their sense of identity was wrapped 54 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:45,800 Speaker 2: up in their career or their work, or for some 55 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:48,800 Speaker 2: they want to try something completely new. We had one 56 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:52,240 Speaker 2: fireman who had always wanted to be a briister, always 57 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:54,359 Speaker 2: wanted to make great coffee, and went and did that. 58 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:58,160 Speaker 2: So there's lots of reasons, but there's no doubt that 59 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:00,320 Speaker 2: it's a large proportion of people right now. I just 60 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:03,760 Speaker 2: genuinely concerned about how their money is going to last 61 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 2: and how to make the most of the system or 62 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:08,160 Speaker 2: make the smart choices. But not many are actually coming 63 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:10,399 Speaker 2: and talking to their superfund, which is quite curious. 64 00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:12,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, so we'll come back to that in a moment. 65 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:17,240 Speaker 1: There's a gender gap there too. Women are more likely 66 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:18,919 Speaker 1: to be concerned about running out of money. 67 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:22,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, this is true. So there's a slightly high proportion 68 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:26,680 Speaker 2: of women who are really quite concerned about running out 69 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:29,120 Speaker 2: of money. I think they actually also start off with 70 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:31,520 Speaker 2: a bit of a gender pay gap as well, and 71 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:34,840 Speaker 2: then a gender retirement gap, so their balances on average 72 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:38,320 Speaker 2: are lower as they approach retirement, and especially women who 73 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:41,560 Speaker 2: are on their own are really grappling with OK, how 74 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:44,840 Speaker 2: do I make this last? And I'm more reluctant in 75 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:47,560 Speaker 2: many cases to go and seek help. I was a 76 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:51,240 Speaker 2: financial planner. I specialized in women when I was helping 77 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:54,560 Speaker 2: women into that retirement phase, and what I observed during 78 00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:56,600 Speaker 2: that time is there is actually a deep amount of 79 00:03:56,680 --> 00:04:00,440 Speaker 2: shame or guilt, so guilt I didn't get onto it sooner, 80 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:05,440 Speaker 2: or shame or worry about feeling silly and asking questions 81 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 2: that they feel that they should know the answer to, 82 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:09,960 Speaker 2: but the truth of it is no one does. And 83 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:12,240 Speaker 2: it is about reaching out and getting some help and 84 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 2: starting wherever you are and just doing what you can 85 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 2: from there. 86 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 1: So you're getting very personal in terms of me, because 87 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:22,279 Speaker 1: I kind of feel the guilt of not using financial 88 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:25,680 Speaker 1: planners enough, not reaching out enough. I'm ten years from retirement, 89 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:28,159 Speaker 1: and you do get to a point where it's almost like, 90 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:30,400 Speaker 1: especially my job, this is what I do for a living, 91 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 1: and I think, why haven't I done more? Like it 92 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:38,760 Speaker 1: is actually a real thing. For so baby booms are retiring, 93 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:42,279 Speaker 1: we gen x's are kind of we're now primed to 94 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 1: talk to someone. 95 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:46,080 Speaker 2: You're in your prime for so many reasons though, your 96 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:50,039 Speaker 2: peak career, peak parent, peak life, and this is not 97 00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:52,160 Speaker 2: something that is taught in schools either, and I think 98 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 2: we have to really forgive ourselves. I acknowledge not everybody 99 00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:57,720 Speaker 2: jumps out of bed with excitement about super I certainly do, 100 00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:01,960 Speaker 2: my team does not. Many people do know. I know 101 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:04,680 Speaker 2: it's a sad state of affairs, but there are people 102 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 2: who do. And I think you just need to put 103 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:10,159 Speaker 2: to one side what you don't know and engage with 104 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 2: help that you can get. And there is so much 105 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:15,120 Speaker 2: your super funds can do at no additional cost. So 106 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:16,599 Speaker 2: if you're a member of a fund, there's heaps of 107 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:18,560 Speaker 2: help that they can give you and ways to explore 108 00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:21,240 Speaker 2: without sort of feeling guilty and in your own time 109 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:21,880 Speaker 2: as well. 110 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:24,560 Speaker 1: Okay, let's come back and talk about that in a moment. 111 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 1: Stay with me, kat we'll be back in a minute. 112 00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:36,360 Speaker 1: My guest this morning is Katrina McPhee from Aware super. 113 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:39,680 Speaker 1: The report highlights a few gaps in knowledge about super 114 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:42,440 Speaker 1: For instance, seventy seven percent of people don't know they 115 00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:45,800 Speaker 1: can retire with their superfund and continue to grow their 116 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:48,600 Speaker 1: savings in retirement. I think that's a really really important 117 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:51,960 Speaker 1: one that many people. You don't actually have to stop 118 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:54,600 Speaker 1: and find a new provider, and you also don't have 119 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 1: to deccumulate necessarily once you've retired. 120 00:05:58,279 --> 00:06:01,000 Speaker 2: No, this was a big uh huh for me, and 121 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:02,960 Speaker 2: being someone who's in the industry and just so close 122 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:05,520 Speaker 2: to it, you don't realize what people people don't know, 123 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 2: and this is a really big one. Most people don't 124 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:11,200 Speaker 2: know that, and they're so familiar with accumulation. You know, 125 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:15,280 Speaker 2: money goes in, it's invested, you choose your investments, off 126 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:17,880 Speaker 2: you go, But they don't realize that once you get 127 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 2: to retirement you can actually shift in what's into what's 128 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:22,839 Speaker 2: called a retirement income account. Every fund has a variation 129 00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:27,200 Speaker 2: of it, and it's actually an extraordinary tax free account 130 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 2: for you where your money stays invested, so it's still 131 00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:33,359 Speaker 2: working hard for you and still earning, but it's earning 132 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:36,480 Speaker 2: at a tax free rate, and that can mean tens 133 00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:39,760 Speaker 2: of thousands of dollars extra over your retirement years, which 134 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:44,080 Speaker 2: is five six years extra of living expenses in retirement. 135 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:47,159 Speaker 1: Where are people getting their information from for this sort 136 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 1: of thing or they not getting enough information? 137 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:52,560 Speaker 2: I think the truth is they're not getting enough information. 138 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:55,880 Speaker 2: I think there is a big we do call it. 139 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:57,840 Speaker 2: It's a very technical term. People do have what's called 140 00:06:57,880 --> 00:07:01,440 Speaker 2: the ocrap moment. They go, I really do need to 141 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:03,279 Speaker 2: start doing something about. 142 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:05,719 Speaker 1: This, Oprah. What was the word? 143 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:06,960 Speaker 2: Oh crap moment? 144 00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 1: Oh crap right right, that's a nice way of putting it. 145 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:15,280 Speaker 2: The cat go on, and it varies depending on each individual. 146 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:17,560 Speaker 2: Some people have it at forty, some people have it 147 00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 2: at fifty. We've had people have it at sixty and seventy. 148 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:22,360 Speaker 2: It depends on where you are at and you think, gosh, 149 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:24,920 Speaker 2: I really need to take this seriously. I think the 150 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:26,640 Speaker 2: first port of call for so many people is their 151 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:29,160 Speaker 2: family and friends, which you can imagine if most people 152 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:32,800 Speaker 2: are feeling concerned, and most people don't understand the system 153 00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 2: that is not always a comforting place to go. But 154 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:39,320 Speaker 2: people have experiences and certainly can give you recommendations of 155 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:42,000 Speaker 2: where to go and look. They do go and seek 156 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:44,880 Speaker 2: external financial advisor help. So I think that's a really 157 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:48,000 Speaker 2: great thing, getting expert advice. But often what you want 158 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:50,480 Speaker 2: to do is get it, just some help at no 159 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:53,160 Speaker 2: additional cost. How can I go and just start exploring 160 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:55,440 Speaker 2: this without actually having to fork out money to begin with, 161 00:07:56,080 --> 00:07:58,760 Speaker 2: Start educating yourself on decisions and things that you can make, 162 00:07:58,800 --> 00:07:59,640 Speaker 2: and go from there. 163 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:01,960 Speaker 1: And part of what you just said that I took 164 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:04,000 Speaker 1: from it, it's never too late to do that either. 165 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 2: Never too late. It is absolutely never too late. There's 166 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 2: always choices to be made. 167 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:12,200 Speaker 1: The idea of managing you super draw down whether you're 168 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:16,680 Speaker 1: drawing down the minimum, and I suppose that's fear of 169 00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:18,800 Speaker 1: running out. If you draw down the minimum, you think, well, 170 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:21,200 Speaker 1: at least they need something for a rainy day. But 171 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:23,080 Speaker 1: are there many people like there who can afford to 172 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:25,640 Speaker 1: draw down much more than the minimum? 173 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:29,080 Speaker 2: I would say the vast majority of people can draw 174 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:32,280 Speaker 2: down far more than they think they can. We're releasing 175 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:35,840 Speaker 2: a new so we have an online digital advice tool 176 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:39,559 Speaker 2: that gets you up to sixty and really optimizes your 177 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:42,600 Speaker 2: sort of retirement outcome. We're about to release another one 178 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:46,520 Speaker 2: that is all about optimizing your income. We've noticed so 179 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:49,360 Speaker 2: many people actually just taking the minimum because they think 180 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:51,000 Speaker 2: that's what the government thinks you need to do, or 181 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:54,240 Speaker 2: it's the most conservative stance. But when you factor in 182 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:57,719 Speaker 2: investment returns over that time, the tax advantages are the 183 00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:00,680 Speaker 2: assets you might have, and certainly Sentling can making sure 184 00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:02,680 Speaker 2: that you get that into the mix. If you're entitled, 185 00:09:03,559 --> 00:09:06,480 Speaker 2: actually doing the calculations about how much you can take 186 00:09:06,559 --> 00:09:10,240 Speaker 2: out and comfortably live out to your nineties or late nineties, 187 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:12,840 Speaker 2: you can actually enjoy life a little bit more while 188 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:15,360 Speaker 2: you have your health and well being, rather than sort 189 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:17,920 Speaker 2: of sitting on a giant nest egg that then becomes 190 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:19,480 Speaker 2: an inheritance at some point. 191 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:22,520 Speaker 1: One of the findings that I thought was interesting, ninety 192 00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:24,840 Speaker 1: one percent say superannuation is their money. They want to 193 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:28,240 Speaker 1: use it for their personal fulfillment. Right. For years, we've 194 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:31,360 Speaker 1: always heard about inheritance and people saving for the kids 195 00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:33,600 Speaker 1: and stuff like that. Now my poor kids are getting nothing, 196 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:37,040 Speaker 1: and I have no quiants about that, but I do 197 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:39,560 Speaker 1: think that seems to be a shift and maybe that's 198 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:43,240 Speaker 1: the introaction of superannuation back in the eighties or something 199 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:46,480 Speaker 1: where people from now on will retire with money. But 200 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:49,680 Speaker 1: is inheritance as big a thing as it used to be? 201 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 2: Do you know what the phenomenon actually is. It's actually 202 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:56,680 Speaker 2: people wanting to help their kids now rather than later. 203 00:09:57,400 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 2: So we've heard about the bank of Mum and Dad. 204 00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:02,480 Speaker 2: We've certainly heard of Mum and Dad childcare centers as well. 205 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:04,920 Speaker 2: So there's a lot going on in the present and 206 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:07,720 Speaker 2: I think that's been driven by the state of housing 207 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:10,360 Speaker 2: and the barriers to entry for younger people getting into 208 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:13,080 Speaker 2: housing these days. So what we're finding is people are 209 00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:16,360 Speaker 2: asking questions of right, how do I set myself up 210 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 2: for retirement, but how can I help my kids right 211 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:21,800 Speaker 2: now versus leaving it to inheritance, or they're thinking of 212 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:23,960 Speaker 2: other assets like the family home and things as a 213 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:27,360 Speaker 2: form of inheritance. Don't know, don't feel guilty about not 214 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:29,480 Speaker 2: leaving the many of your super You're with the majority 215 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:30,559 Speaker 2: of Australia. 216 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:33,160 Speaker 1: There are the numbers like fifty seven percent plan to 217 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:35,760 Speaker 1: travel during retirement, et cetera. I like this one, fifty 218 00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:38,560 Speaker 1: two percent intend to relax more. What are the other 219 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:39,640 Speaker 1: forty eight percent. 220 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:44,720 Speaker 2: Doing okay, I'm not really sure. Unrelaxing, I think people 221 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:48,280 Speaker 2: there's a real general excitement. This is where I got 222 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:51,040 Speaker 2: a lot of joy from the report, actually, because when 223 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:52,920 Speaker 2: you take away sort of the money concept and you 224 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:54,679 Speaker 2: can square that away in your mind and you're feeling 225 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:56,800 Speaker 2: a bit more secure about that, there is a real 226 00:10:56,920 --> 00:10:58,920 Speaker 2: joy about taking control of your time and what you 227 00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:01,680 Speaker 2: might do. And there's no doubt Australians want to travel. 228 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:05,960 Speaker 2: Pickleball made a resurgent, but I found really interesting as 229 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:11,360 Speaker 2: a very American spot for the knees, all of those 230 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:11,960 Speaker 2: good things. 231 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:13,400 Speaker 1: So there's a lot. 232 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:15,400 Speaker 2: There's a lot of joy that comes with taking control 233 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:18,520 Speaker 2: of the time and a lot of it comes down 234 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:21,160 Speaker 2: to volunteering and just doing the things you've actually always 235 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:23,240 Speaker 2: had on the list, I think, but never had the 236 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:23,760 Speaker 2: time to do. 237 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:25,839 Speaker 1: Kat thank you for talking to Fear and Greed. 238 00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:27,200 Speaker 2: Thank you very much for having me. 239 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:30,080 Speaker 1: That was Katrina mcpee, chief of staff at Aware Super. 240 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:32,640 Speaker 1: This is the Fear and Greed Business Interview. Remember this 241 00:11:32,679 --> 00:11:35,319 Speaker 1: is general information only, and should always seek professional advice 242 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:38,400 Speaker 1: before making investment decisions. Join us every morning for the 243 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:41,120 Speaker 1: full episode of Fear and greed. Daily business us for 244 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:44,199 Speaker 1: people who make their own decisions. I'm Sean Elmer. I'm 245 00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 1: enjoy your day.