WEBVTT - The Media Show | 30 May 0:00:01.480 --> 0:00:05.960 This is the Media Show with Jack outing Hello and 0:00:06.000 --> 0:00:08.399 welcome to the Media Show. I'm Jack Houghton, and we 0:00:08.480 --> 0:00:12.400 have a packed show tonight dissecting Donald Trump's war with 0:00:12.640 --> 0:00:15.640 NPR newsrooms, and we sit down with journalist Chang Lay 0:00:16.160 --> 0:00:18.599 to hear about the three years she spent in a 0:00:18.680 --> 0:00:22.160 Chinese prison. But first, the ABC has some major problems 0:00:22.160 --> 0:00:25.520 to address this week. There has been blunder after blunder, 0:00:25.880 --> 0:00:31.240 followed by self indulgent productions, the spreading of intentional misinformation 0:00:31.880 --> 0:00:35.120 and just pure activism. And we'll get through it all, 0:00:35.159 --> 0:00:38.000 but I have to lead the show with this absolute shocker. 0:00:38.800 --> 0:00:40.680 I think the other thing that's probably really important to 0:00:40.720 --> 0:00:43.479 regional communities is that they have a local member who's 0:00:43.520 --> 0:00:47.519 there when their electorate is, for example, flooding. So I 0:00:47.520 --> 0:00:50.400 went through this earlier today. I went and checked. So 0:00:50.440 --> 0:00:52.959 on Wednesday afternoon, there was a sixty three year old 0:00:52.960 --> 0:00:55.560 man in Moto that's near Tyree, that's in Allison Penfold's 0:00:55.560 --> 0:00:59.000 seat the National He died on Thursday morning. The body 0:00:59.040 --> 0:01:01.240 was recovered of a thirty year old Amanu thirties in 0:01:01.320 --> 0:01:04.400 Rosewood that's in her seat as well. On Thursday afternoon, 0:01:04.440 --> 0:01:06.560 that's when we had the press conference from the Nationals 0:01:06.560 --> 0:01:08.920 in the Hall. Just to go over that timeline. A 0:01:08.959 --> 0:01:11.080 sixty year old woman died in her car near Coffs 0:01:11.080 --> 0:01:14.440 Harbor in this flood. That's in pact Conahan's seat of Kauper. 0:01:14.720 --> 0:01:15.160 I think the. 0:01:15.120 --> 0:01:16.680 Important thing is that when you're in our position, it's 0:01:16.680 --> 0:01:18.960 also still your job to be a local member and 0:01:19.000 --> 0:01:20.960 represent your communities, to be there for them. 0:01:21.600 --> 0:01:25.440 That was ABC reporter Claudia Long, falsely alleging that Conservative 0:01:25.560 --> 0:01:29.840 MPs had abandoned their flood ravage communities. She also rattled 0:01:29.840 --> 0:01:32.039 off the details of these poor people who died in 0:01:32.040 --> 0:01:35.280 the floods, turning their stories and the pain of their 0:01:35.360 --> 0:01:39.520 families into ammunition for a cheap swipe of politicians she 0:01:39.640 --> 0:01:43.720 clearly dislikes. So was the allegation true? Not a word. 0:01:44.800 --> 0:01:48.560 It's pretty grim when the ABC or anyone's playing politics 0:01:48.840 --> 0:01:51.200 with a flood and of course, in your case, the 0:01:51.280 --> 0:01:52.640 deaths of residents. 0:01:53.160 --> 0:01:56.240 Yeah. Look, I can't tell you how hurtful the comment was. 0:01:56.280 --> 0:02:01.920 I was actually had been in Wingham morning talking to 0:02:02.240 --> 0:02:05.440 businesses that have been flood affected, and I had intended 0:02:05.480 --> 0:02:07.800 to continue on to some houses. I got a phone 0:02:07.800 --> 0:02:11.960 call to hear that this journalist I've never met her. 0:02:12.040 --> 0:02:16.080 In fact, I've never heard of us until yesterday, had 0:02:16.760 --> 0:02:19.400 not even bothered to call me before making these sorts 0:02:19.440 --> 0:02:22.720 of comments, while you know I've been hard at work 0:02:22.760 --> 0:02:26.720 and as his pat in the electorate, we live here, 0:02:26.760 --> 0:02:28.120 we know people affected. 0:02:29.720 --> 0:02:32.360 Didn't even pick up the phone to check, and how 0:02:32.360 --> 0:02:36.000 did the ABC respond well? In typical fashion, the communications 0:02:36.040 --> 0:02:40.240 team put out a vague statement apologizing, but you wouldn't 0:02:40.280 --> 0:02:44.280 believe the terminology they used to distance their reporter from 0:02:44.280 --> 0:02:47.760 the blame. On the Insiders episode broadcast on the twenty 0:02:47.760 --> 0:02:52.640 fifth of May, and EBC panelists made comments inferring the 0:02:52.720 --> 0:02:56.280 two Nationals MPs Allison Penfold and Pat Conahan, were not 0:02:56.560 --> 0:03:00.560 in their electorates during the recent New South Wales floods now. 0:03:00.720 --> 0:03:04.000 Notice how they don't say an ABC journalist made the allegation. 0:03:04.639 --> 0:03:08.000 Insiders is a show with panelists from all over the media. 0:03:08.320 --> 0:03:10.960 A panelist could be from nine from seven or even 0:03:11.040 --> 0:03:14.959 News Corp. It isn't an accident, it is an intentional 0:03:15.040 --> 0:03:21.960 use of language to shield their reporter from scrutiny. Joining 0:03:22.000 --> 0:03:24.720 me now to discuss is Sky News contributor Louise Robertson 0:03:24.800 --> 0:03:29.200 Managing editor at The Australian, Darren Davidson. Louise, let's start 0:03:29.200 --> 0:03:31.280 with you. Thanks for joining us here on the panel. 0:03:32.160 --> 0:03:35.680 An absolute shocker, And we were talking before the show 0:03:35.800 --> 0:03:40.400 about the reaction from Alison and followed the National MP 0:03:40.600 --> 0:03:44.840 that had this allegation against us. Very heartbreaking that she 0:03:44.920 --> 0:03:48.120 had to endure that kind of attack on her and 0:03:48.160 --> 0:03:51.720 her character by this reporter, and then this reporter hasn't 0:03:52.120 --> 0:03:54.320 really said anything about it since no. 0:03:54.480 --> 0:03:58.720 I think this is an abject failure on so many levels, Jack, 0:03:58.800 --> 0:04:00.920 I mean, I really feel for Alis and Penfold the MP, 0:04:01.080 --> 0:04:04.080 because now she's had a week where she's had to 0:04:04.200 --> 0:04:06.560 justify what the ABC did or try and explain it 0:04:06.600 --> 0:04:08.720 away to locals when all she wants to really focus 0:04:08.760 --> 0:04:12.120 on is rebuilding her community. And she was not Mia. 0:04:12.160 --> 0:04:15.000 There's photographs of her on social media with muddle over 0:04:15.040 --> 0:04:17.000 it because she's literally been in the thick of it. 0:04:17.279 --> 0:04:19.480 She was caught in the floods herself. She couldn't get 0:04:19.520 --> 0:04:21.720 down to see the daughter of a man who died 0:04:21.720 --> 0:04:24.200 in the floods. So you know the fact that her 0:04:24.279 --> 0:04:26.520 interview with Peter where she said it was heartbreaking. I 0:04:26.600 --> 0:04:28.640 totally sympathize with her for that and the way the 0:04:28.680 --> 0:04:32.719 ABC has tried to paper over this by not addressing 0:04:32.720 --> 0:04:34.800 the issue and not issuing a proper you know, I 0:04:34.800 --> 0:04:37.600 would say a proper apology for their behavior and the 0:04:37.640 --> 0:04:41.840 behavior of the reporter just shows it's another basic standards 0:04:41.920 --> 0:04:46.960 fail by them. Our ABC, taxpayer funded ABC, any other 0:04:47.000 --> 0:04:48.520 government department wouldn't get away with this. 0:04:48.880 --> 0:04:51.560 It's a really good point, Darren. Other statutory bodies that 0:04:51.600 --> 0:04:56.040 have these kind of responsibilities that the taxpayers fund, there 0:04:56.040 --> 0:04:58.920 would be an outcome. And I think that the public 0:04:59.000 --> 0:05:01.440 does need to know is being done about this, what 0:05:01.520 --> 0:05:05.520 kind of fact checking happens before these very severe allegations 0:05:06.080 --> 0:05:09.760 are made. And I would like to see the reporter 0:05:10.120 --> 0:05:13.320 go on to insiders and to do a correction, and 0:05:13.360 --> 0:05:16.239 that is what they would and Media Watch would expect 0:05:16.279 --> 0:05:18.200 anyone else to do in a situation like this. 0:05:20.480 --> 0:05:22.479 Yeah, absolutely, Jack that I'd expect the same of the 0:05:22.480 --> 0:05:26.359 Australian as well, and often do make those kind of demands. 0:05:26.400 --> 0:05:30.560 I mean, Alison Penfold rightly, rightly feels very angry and 0:05:30.600 --> 0:05:32.960 furious about this, and I don't really blame her, you know, 0:05:33.040 --> 0:05:37.440 to accuse an elected official of abandoning her community during 0:05:37.480 --> 0:05:41.360 a tragedy like this. It's quite a serious allegation and 0:05:42.360 --> 0:05:47.159 it's just a basic failure of reporting. And to then 0:05:47.279 --> 0:05:50.839 have the ab spinners in their pr communications department claim 0:05:50.920 --> 0:05:54.240 that the reporter was a panelist, and to try and 0:05:54.360 --> 0:05:56.720 fudge it like that, I think just doubled just down 0:05:56.760 --> 0:05:59.960 on the mistake, and it makes it makes it even worse. 0:06:01.080 --> 0:06:04.599 It's really disingenuous and ultimately just a rose trust in 0:06:04.640 --> 0:06:10.080 the ABC's journalism between them and their shows and their 0:06:10.080 --> 0:06:13.880 reporting and their audience and the public, which is not 0:06:13.920 --> 0:06:15.440 a good thing for them and not a good thing 0:06:15.480 --> 0:06:18.680 for everybody more generally. You're just a roads trust in journalism. 0:06:18.680 --> 0:06:21.960 More generally, I think, yeah, Well, plenty more blunders at 0:06:21.960 --> 0:06:24.080 the ABC to get through, though, because it has been 0:06:24.080 --> 0:06:27.680 an absolute shocker for news director Justin Stevens, who, in 0:06:27.720 --> 0:06:31.159 my opinion, is too incompetent to run a newsroom. The 0:06:31.200 --> 0:06:34.280 network was relentlessly mocked when it posted a video of 0:06:34.360 --> 0:06:37.960 Karmala Harris on the Gold Coast, which turned out to 0:06:38.000 --> 0:06:41.680 not be Karmala Harris. Now, let's bring the panel back 0:06:41.680 --> 0:06:46.560 in Louise. This one's on the more harmless side of it. 0:06:46.920 --> 0:06:50.719 But it goes back to standards that this woman had 0:06:50.880 --> 0:06:55.440 I think one identity characteristic in common with Karmala Harris, 0:06:55.480 --> 0:07:00.520 and they've lasily just published that. Yeah, massive problem and. 0:07:00.480 --> 0:07:02.920 It stayed up for what twenty five minutes on Instagram 0:07:02.960 --> 0:07:04.440 I think, until someone will Actually. 0:07:04.240 --> 0:07:05.279 The comments were very fun. 0:07:05.520 --> 0:07:08.479 Yeah, that's right, this poor woman being slandered saying she 0:07:08.600 --> 0:07:11.960 was Kamala Harris, the sort of high priestess of word salad. 0:07:13.080 --> 0:07:15.920 In fact, no one wants to be compared, but in 0:07:16.000 --> 0:07:16.680 fact she was. 0:07:16.760 --> 0:07:20.120 I believe it the Balmel Pavilion a few days earlier, 0:07:20.160 --> 0:07:23.360 legitimately with the whole Secret Service caval cat, which is 0:07:23.360 --> 0:07:26.200 a bit of a giveaway that a former United States 0:07:26.320 --> 0:07:29.000 VP is actually in town. But again, yeah, it speaks 0:07:29.040 --> 0:07:31.640 to the sort of lack of rigorous fact checking in 0:07:31.640 --> 0:07:33.240 the fact that nobody looked at that photo and went, 0:07:33.400 --> 0:07:35.320 hang on, this is a woman carrying a bag with 0:07:35.320 --> 0:07:36.920 the lanyard may not be. 0:07:37.400 --> 0:07:38.280 Really doesn't look at it. 0:07:38.480 --> 0:07:40.880 No, let's put their pictures side by side. 0:07:41.040 --> 0:07:45.120 Would No, it's not actually Darren, let's bring you in. 0:07:45.120 --> 0:07:46.200 What do you make of this mistake? 0:07:48.480 --> 0:07:50.720 It might seem like a silly mistake, but you know, 0:07:50.760 --> 0:07:52.760 I think it reflects a deeper issue, which is kind 0:07:52.800 --> 0:07:55.480 of a lack of editorial care, which we're kind of 0:07:55.480 --> 0:07:59.000 seeing consistently here as a pattern. And it might be 0:07:59.040 --> 0:08:02.360 a small mistake, but accuracy matters even on the really 0:08:02.400 --> 0:08:05.520 small things. It just shows how seriously an insm takes 0:08:05.560 --> 0:08:09.320 its responsibility to report the facts. And again, you know, 0:08:09.600 --> 0:08:14.360 no apology, just a lack of consequences at the ABC. 0:08:14.560 --> 0:08:16.200 And again that seems to be a pattern that we 0:08:16.280 --> 0:08:19.240 keep seeing time and time again. And you know, you 0:08:19.280 --> 0:08:21.200 don't see the same thing I think at the commercial 0:08:21.360 --> 0:08:24.440 media outlets. If we make a mistake, and from time 0:08:24.480 --> 0:08:27.840 to time we do, we do our best to correct 0:08:27.840 --> 0:08:31.880 it quickly and inform the audience about that. And you 0:08:31.880 --> 0:08:33.679 know ours are pretty good at calling that out and 0:08:34.320 --> 0:08:36.959 making sure that everybody knows about it. And that's fair enough, 0:08:37.920 --> 0:08:39.439 But it doesn't seem to be the case at the ABC. 0:08:39.559 --> 0:08:41.720 There are no consequences when it makes these mistakes wherever 0:08:41.760 --> 0:08:43.439 they're big ones or small ones. 0:08:44.000 --> 0:08:47.640 Yeah, well said. But now to the third egregious error 0:08:47.720 --> 0:08:50.760 by the ABC recently, which Chris Kenny actually picked a 0:08:50.760 --> 0:08:53.960 part in his show, which was the blatantly false assertion 0:08:54.080 --> 0:08:59.520 that fourteen thousand babies in Gaza were dying from starvation, a. 0:08:59.600 --> 0:09:04.880 Worst case scenario of what malnutrition not deaths could happen 0:09:04.920 --> 0:09:08.600 to children if more food is not supplied or the 0:09:08.640 --> 0:09:12.640 war is not ended over a year, and that is 0:09:12.720 --> 0:09:17.679 reported as fourteen thousand babies being about to die in 0:09:17.800 --> 0:09:22.440 forty eight hours. It just made no sense at all, 0:09:23.120 --> 0:09:27.600 Yet the claim ran globally, it was widely reported as fact. 0:09:27.720 --> 0:09:33.560 Here in Australia, journalists, media organizations, bloggers, activists and the 0:09:33.679 --> 0:09:36.600 United Nations ought to be condemned. They ought to be 0:09:36.679 --> 0:09:39.120 disgusted by their own gullibility. 0:09:41.240 --> 0:09:44.600 Well another apology by the ABC, but who even reads 0:09:44.640 --> 0:09:49.320 those apart from us Luise, it's basically justselves going through them. 0:09:49.920 --> 0:09:53.120 The situation in Gaza is obviously horrific and there's these 0:09:53.320 --> 0:09:57.240 massive humanitarian issues. I don't think it helps either side 0:09:57.360 --> 0:10:02.480 to either embellish the numbers, fabricate the numbers, and to 0:10:02.960 --> 0:10:07.480 walk away with a false depiction of what the reality is. 0:10:07.600 --> 0:10:12.240 That's right, and this assertion that there's fourteen thousand, that 0:10:12.400 --> 0:10:15.120 is a big number. And as Chris Kenny points out, 0:10:15.160 --> 0:10:20.120 anyone who's reasonable, a reasonable objective operator covering this conflict 0:10:20.440 --> 0:10:22.680 should look at that and say, okay, how could you 0:10:22.720 --> 0:10:26.320 possibly get that number? And where alleging fourteen thousand babies 0:10:26.360 --> 0:10:29.160 are on the brink of death, there are moments away 0:10:29.200 --> 0:10:33.680 from dying. Just there's no common sense at all going 0:10:33.720 --> 0:10:36.400 on at the ABC, or even worse, it's activism. 0:10:36.840 --> 0:10:40.400 Well that's the thing. So it's a very emotionally charged statistic, 0:10:40.440 --> 0:10:41.839 isn't it. I mean, who could not fail to be 0:10:41.880 --> 0:10:44.040 moved by the fact that that many babies would die 0:10:44.080 --> 0:10:46.839 in what forty eight hours? This part of them fact 0:10:46.880 --> 0:10:50.559 doesn't actually make sense physically, but you know, again it's 0:10:50.600 --> 0:10:55.280 about outrage, not informing, and there's no clarification, no proper clarification, 0:10:56.040 --> 0:10:58.439 any sort of sorry or oops type thing is sort 0:10:58.440 --> 0:11:02.120 of shoved into that website broom covered, I would call it, 0:11:02.160 --> 0:11:04.079 which perhaps we are the only people are actually looking 0:11:04.080 --> 0:11:06.720 at it. I don't think the ABC high management or 0:11:06.720 --> 0:11:09.200 indeed ABC viewers on a regular basis are probably looking 0:11:09.200 --> 0:11:12.040 at and thinking, hmm, they're meant to be factual and accurate. 0:11:12.200 --> 0:11:13.360 Something's gone very wrong here. 0:11:13.440 --> 0:11:15.360 Yeah, and where has it come from? I mean, Darren, 0:11:15.400 --> 0:11:18.080 it's basically is it just the Hamas Health Ministry, which 0:11:18.120 --> 0:11:20.920 is you know, it gets a lot of quoting from 0:11:20.920 --> 0:11:23.080 these figures and there's no way to really check them. 0:11:23.480 --> 0:11:26.200 We know that there is issues with information coming out 0:11:26.400 --> 0:11:30.000 out of this conflict. To me, it is very problematic 0:11:30.040 --> 0:11:34.480 when you have a very expensive national broadcaster that is 0:11:34.640 --> 0:11:38.200 putting this kind of misinformation out there and taking a 0:11:38.440 --> 0:11:41.480 very long time to correct the record, a very long time. 0:11:41.760 --> 0:11:43.880 It's not a situation where this is the next day 0:11:44.440 --> 0:11:48.000 after Chris Kenny pointed it out, it's several days down 0:11:48.080 --> 0:11:51.800 the line. They always try and kind of do everything 0:11:51.840 --> 0:11:54.920 they can to avoid apologizing. They had no choice in 0:11:54.920 --> 0:11:55.559 this situation. 0:11:57.760 --> 0:12:00.000 Yeah. Look, I mean, as Louis said, it's a very 0:12:00.000 --> 0:12:03.520 sensitive story and errors like this only inflame the situation 0:12:03.880 --> 0:12:06.560 even even further. And as you've pointed out as well, Jack, 0:12:06.640 --> 0:12:09.880 I mean, there's there's no serious data to back up 0:12:10.040 --> 0:12:13.959 that number, and that source should be questioned. But unfortunately 0:12:13.960 --> 0:12:16.559 that source that you've mentioned there gets a lot of 0:12:16.600 --> 0:12:19.560 air time and and it gets credibility that it doesn't deserve. 0:12:19.640 --> 0:12:21.480 Chris Mitchell and the Australian in the media section has 0:12:21.480 --> 0:12:24.120 been really good on this one, just pointing out that 0:12:24.200 --> 0:12:29.840 journalist should be you know, should question that source a lot. 0:12:29.920 --> 0:12:32.720 In a more rigorous way than they have been and 0:12:32.920 --> 0:12:37.320 just to report what they say unchecked is a seriously 0:12:37.559 --> 0:12:41.880 flawed approach to journalism. Look, no question of the situation 0:12:41.960 --> 0:12:45.400 out there is dire, but you know the Australian fact 0:12:45.480 --> 0:12:47.480 checked it, the Wall Street Journal fact checked it, and 0:12:47.679 --> 0:12:49.720 as I said, it's not supported by any serious data. 0:12:49.760 --> 0:12:53.040 And and you know, even an apology after that doesn't 0:12:53.040 --> 0:12:55.360 really make a lot of difference. It's it just undermines 0:12:55.400 --> 0:12:59.000 the credibility of the ABC's coverage of international affairs, which, 0:12:59.080 --> 0:13:01.720 as you've reported the show again, you know this is 0:13:01.720 --> 0:13:03.360 a pattern that we've seen time and time again. 0:13:04.760 --> 0:13:07.240 Well, as you can see, there are so many errors 0:13:07.240 --> 0:13:08.920 going to air on the ABC that we don't even 0:13:08.960 --> 0:13:12.080 have time enough time on this show to dissect them all. 0:13:12.400 --> 0:13:15.520 It is that bad and you pay for this. Also, 0:13:15.640 --> 0:13:18.440 have you ever noticed that every error always seems to 0:13:18.480 --> 0:13:22.679 adversely impact only one side of politics. We don't seem 0:13:22.720 --> 0:13:26.840 to get many corrections about staff lodging false accusations against 0:13:26.840 --> 0:13:30.480 the Teals. The false allegations only ever seem to be 0:13:30.520 --> 0:13:34.720 directed at Conservatives or Israel. Something to think about. So 0:13:35.080 --> 0:13:38.079 Justin Stevens, who is responsible for all of this, you 0:13:38.160 --> 0:13:40.920 pay him five hundred and fifty six thousand dollars a 0:13:41.040 --> 0:13:44.040 year to run this news room and in return, the 0:13:44.040 --> 0:13:50.800 ABC producers hard hitting content like this is sport to 0:13:50.880 --> 0:14:00.200 a toy out of different taxes. How I, Dana, how 0:14:00.240 --> 0:14:01.760 would you describe Laura Tingle? 0:14:02.120 --> 0:14:02.720 Smart? 0:14:03.120 --> 0:14:11.280 Tough, dedicated, hard working, relentless, won't take any crap from anybody. 0:14:11.800 --> 0:14:18.360 Laura is both wonderful and terrifying, formidable, formidable and formidable. 0:14:20.600 --> 0:14:22.840 Well what do we make of that? I mean, essentially, 0:14:22.920 --> 0:14:26.560 you've got Laura Tingle there featuring in a news package 0:14:26.600 --> 0:14:30.800 on seven thirty about how great Laura Tingle is and 0:14:30.840 --> 0:14:34.120 how amazing the ABC is. It's just self indulgent at 0:14:34.120 --> 0:14:37.680 a time where it's just been completely just ever ridden 0:14:37.680 --> 0:14:41.680 content flowing out everywhere, and they just they love themselves 0:14:41.680 --> 0:14:42.920 so much it's nauseating. 0:14:42.960 --> 0:14:45.040 I felt like I was watching the Academy Walls or something. 0:14:46.040 --> 0:14:48.720 Maybe the log is that's what you expect, that sort 0:14:48.720 --> 0:14:52.000 of you know, self indulgent content to be on those 0:14:52.000 --> 0:14:53.360 sort of a ward show, but not on a news 0:14:53.440 --> 0:14:54.920 program which we're paying for. 0:14:55.080 --> 0:14:57.400 As you say, yeah, I agree, and quickly. This one 0:14:57.440 --> 0:15:01.120 isn't as much an error as it is blatant challenge propaganda. 0:15:02.280 --> 0:15:07.160 The approval of Woodside's Northwest Shelf will mean that floods 0:15:07.280 --> 0:15:09.600 are going to be worse, that fires are going to 0:15:09.640 --> 0:15:13.200 be worse, that droughts will be more intense. 0:15:13.440 --> 0:15:15.920 The Federal government has signed off on an extension of 0:15:15.960 --> 0:15:19.440 Australia's largest oil and gas project until twenty seventy. 0:15:19.600 --> 0:15:23.960 Australia cannot keep approving big climate bombs. 0:15:25.320 --> 0:15:29.680 A climate bomb? How very scientific? The ABC did not 0:15:29.880 --> 0:15:33.360 challenge a word of Sarah Hanson Young's absurd statements, and 0:15:33.440 --> 0:15:37.080 by doing this the journalist is elevating unscientific gets you 0:15:37.120 --> 0:15:41.080 gibberish and making viewers think that every word is true. Now, 0:15:41.080 --> 0:15:44.320 climate science is extremely complex and for a sorry can 0:15:44.360 --> 0:15:52.520 I redo this? It's two stumbles? Ah, okay, just whenever 0:15:55.280 --> 0:15:59.960 climate bomb? How very scientific? The ABC did not challenge 0:16:00.160 --> 0:16:03.480 a word of Sarah Hanson Young's absurd statements, and by 0:16:03.520 --> 0:16:07.920 doing this the journalist is elevating unscientific gibberish and making 0:16:08.000 --> 0:16:12.000 viewers think that every word is true. Climate science is 0:16:12.080 --> 0:16:16.240 extremely complex and forecasting is linked to macro analysis of 0:16:16.280 --> 0:16:20.840 emissions not hindered by geographical restrictions. Hans and Young is 0:16:20.840 --> 0:16:23.840 not someone who understands this, and her rhetoric about a 0:16:23.880 --> 0:16:28.240 single gas operation making floods or bushfires worse is utterly 0:16:28.280 --> 0:16:32.760 false and mathematically impossible. And anyone using the phrase climate 0:16:32.840 --> 0:16:35.960 bomb is not a serious person. But the ABC loved 0:16:36.040 --> 0:16:38.440 the grab so much it ran it right at the 0:16:38.480 --> 0:16:41.520 start of that package, not a word of pushback and 0:16:41.560 --> 0:16:47.080 not a shred of science. Well, Darren, let's go to you. 0:16:47.120 --> 0:16:48.520 I mean, the ABC, I do thing has got a 0:16:48.520 --> 0:16:52.840 problem with rhetoric and hyperbole around the climate change issue, 0:16:52.880 --> 0:16:55.600 but to climate bomb, I mean, does it get any 0:16:55.720 --> 0:16:56.720 more petulant than that? 0:16:58.720 --> 0:17:02.520 Yeah, theater and I think by you know, as you said, 0:17:02.760 --> 0:17:06.360 running it so prominently, that only endorses it. And look, 0:17:06.400 --> 0:17:08.680 the approach we take at the Australian is these are 0:17:08.680 --> 0:17:13.000 really complex issues and you know, to be sort of 0:17:13.080 --> 0:17:16.199 just focusing on the headline and not getting into the 0:17:16.200 --> 0:17:19.800 complexity of the issue only misinforms the public and that's 0:17:19.880 --> 0:17:22.080 not a good thing, I think, you know, and the 0:17:22.119 --> 0:17:26.480 result from that is kind of fear and misunderstanding, misinformation, 0:17:26.680 --> 0:17:30.919 not actually really understanding what is a complex scientific issue. 0:17:30.960 --> 0:17:35.840 And yeah, that's it's it's not great. Unfortunately, as I 0:17:35.880 --> 0:17:40.800 said earlier, there's this continuing pattern only undermines the ABC. 0:17:41.119 --> 0:17:43.199 You know the trust, the trust that the public have 0:17:43.240 --> 0:17:44.240 in the ABC's. 0:17:43.880 --> 0:17:47.080 Journalism, well, said Darren Davidson. Louise Roberts, thank you so 0:17:47.160 --> 0:17:49.400 much for joining me today a quick break, but when 0:17:49.400 --> 0:17:51.920 we return, we sit down with journalists Chang Lei, who 0:17:51.960 --> 0:17:55.119 shares details of the three years that she spent trapped 0:17:55.359 --> 0:18:01.280 in a Chinese prison. She was a rising star at 0:18:01.320 --> 0:18:04.800 the China Global Television Network until one day she disappeared 0:18:04.960 --> 0:18:08.879 without a trace. Australian Chinese journalist Chang li was working 0:18:08.920 --> 0:18:12.080 her dream job in Beijing in viewing business giants such 0:18:12.119 --> 0:18:15.840 as Bill Gates and athletes like David Beckham. But one 0:18:15.920 --> 0:18:18.800 day she breached an embargo on a government press release 0:18:18.840 --> 0:18:22.760 by just seven minutes and everything changed. She was detained 0:18:22.760 --> 0:18:26.640 by secret police for one hundred and fifty four days 0:18:26.680 --> 0:18:31.200 in the most harrowing conditions imaginable. Her fans just suddenly 0:18:31.240 --> 0:18:35.200 noticed she was gone from their screens. CGTN deleted all 0:18:35.320 --> 0:18:38.479 trace of her from their website. The face of their 0:18:38.520 --> 0:18:42.679 newsroom was deleted overnight, but despite their best efforts, she 0:18:42.840 --> 0:18:46.159 was not forgotten. Her story is one of resilience and 0:18:46.200 --> 0:18:50.160 the extremes of government overreach, and she has bravely relived 0:18:50.160 --> 0:18:53.639 this in a documentary for Sky News and her upcoming book, 0:18:53.680 --> 0:18:57.120 Chang Lee, a Memoir of Freedom. And we are very 0:18:57.880 --> 0:19:00.280 very fortunate to be joined by Lay on the Desk 0:19:00.320 --> 0:19:04.080 tonight to discuss her book and of course a documentary 0:19:04.440 --> 0:19:07.439 which we were able to watch together last night and 0:19:07.480 --> 0:19:12.399 it is a must watch situation, Jack, and thank you 0:19:12.440 --> 0:19:15.480 for joining us. Now you've written in your book something 0:19:15.480 --> 0:19:18.320 that I think is really interesting somebody that has gone 0:19:18.359 --> 0:19:21.600 through this situation, you still clearly have a very deep 0:19:21.680 --> 0:19:25.919 love for China, and you describe yourself as a cultural schizophrenic, 0:19:26.480 --> 0:19:31.399 kind of dancing between Chinese culture and Australian culturelessly, seamlessly. 0:19:31.520 --> 0:19:32.600 Tell me a bit more about that. 0:19:33.240 --> 0:19:37.200 I think because I came at this critical age of ten, 0:19:37.880 --> 0:19:41.040 I had absorbed a lot of what it meant to 0:19:41.080 --> 0:19:45.040 be Chinese and then picked up wonderful things that come 0:19:45.200 --> 0:19:51.639 with being Australian. And it's just been wonderful to share 0:19:51.680 --> 0:19:55.200 the best of Australia with Chinese people and vice versa. 0:19:55.320 --> 0:19:57.160 And I thought I was doing that in my job, 0:19:57.440 --> 0:20:03.879 increasing understanding, bridging the the gap, and then it turned 0:20:03.880 --> 0:20:09.600 out that that was my sin because I was communicating 0:20:09.640 --> 0:20:14.560 too much, sharing too much, And now I'm a bit 0:20:14.600 --> 0:20:20.480 wary of things like national borders and getting too patriotic 0:20:21.000 --> 0:20:23.720 without seeing the downsides. 0:20:23.240 --> 0:20:26.320 The warning sides that come along with it. And I 0:20:26.320 --> 0:20:30.720 do want to talk about the arrest and this phrase 0:20:30.880 --> 0:20:34.280 that you know what it tricked me? I think when 0:20:34.320 --> 0:20:38.960 I first heard the phrase house arrest, because I was thinking, well, 0:20:39.040 --> 0:20:42.159 she'd be in a unit, potentially her own unit, and 0:20:42.240 --> 0:20:45.520 cole bracelets and ankle bracelets, should be able to go shopping. 0:20:46.600 --> 0:20:49.719 That's not at all what it was. It was a 0:20:49.760 --> 0:20:54.280 situation where you were guarded in person by two people 0:20:54.480 --> 0:20:58.000 staring at you twenty four hours a day, unable to 0:20:58.160 --> 0:21:03.320 literally move for upper of thirteen hours without getting permission 0:21:03.920 --> 0:21:06.960 to even scratch your face. What was that like? 0:21:07.680 --> 0:21:10.400 So, to give an example, to go to the toilet, 0:21:11.119 --> 0:21:13.480 I would be sandwich between the two guards. I would 0:21:13.560 --> 0:21:16.520 have to say request permission to go to the toilet. 0:21:16.680 --> 0:21:19.520 That would say permission granted. I would stand up and 0:21:19.560 --> 0:21:23.640 then immediately one guard backs her way towards the toilet. 0:21:23.720 --> 0:21:29.120 One follows me, and I am staring at the guard's 0:21:29.119 --> 0:21:33.280 shoes as I shuffle towards the toilet. I take off 0:21:33.280 --> 0:21:35.520 my pants in front of them. I do my business 0:21:35.560 --> 0:21:38.560 in front of them, and they stand there watching, and 0:21:38.600 --> 0:21:43.800 then we shuffle back and do that for sleeping, for showering, 0:21:44.200 --> 0:21:47.520 for every time I thought about my kids, I was 0:21:47.520 --> 0:21:51.800 in floods of tears, and they watched that. And if 0:21:51.840 --> 0:21:54.560 I was so tired because I couldn't sleep at night, 0:21:54.720 --> 0:21:57.600 I close my eyes for a few seconds. Open your eyes, 0:21:58.200 --> 0:22:02.600 and if I had my arm inside the covers, they 0:22:02.600 --> 0:22:05.600 would wake me. Take your arms out. I would be 0:22:05.640 --> 0:22:10.080 woken at six thirty each morning, and everything was done 0:22:10.200 --> 0:22:13.600 at a certain time. I didn't see anyone else. I 0:22:13.600 --> 0:22:17.520 couldn't talk to the guards, but later on as I 0:22:17.600 --> 0:22:19.600 got to know them, and I didn't make trouble for 0:22:19.640 --> 0:22:22.240 them because I felt sorry for what they had to do. 0:22:22.720 --> 0:22:26.720 Sure for their four hour shifts to watch me, like 0:22:26.840 --> 0:22:30.480 imagine the boredom and also the fatigue, even though they're 0:22:30.480 --> 0:22:34.439 taking turns standing and sitting, but still the nothingness of it, 0:22:34.520 --> 0:22:37.640 and they had to wear masks while I didn't, And. 0:22:37.680 --> 0:22:39.199 Or for what what was? 0:22:39.359 --> 0:22:42.119 How was I going to bust out of this situation 0:22:42.359 --> 0:22:48.879 with these thick steel doors electronically closed, and monitors and 0:22:49.000 --> 0:22:53.680 secret police and as in special police and guard dogs. 0:22:54.560 --> 0:22:59.160 They gave me too much credit. I'm not Jason Satin. Yes, 0:23:00.440 --> 0:23:04.320 a lot in the book there's I guess, different different 0:23:04.359 --> 0:23:06.679 calibers of spying. I guess that they're looking at But 0:23:07.040 --> 0:23:12.000 to me, it looked like a form of psychological dominating. 0:23:11.800 --> 0:23:13.160 Absolutely intimidation. 0:23:13.480 --> 0:23:17.640 And the party is wide. Yes, we're watching, We're always watching. 0:23:17.720 --> 0:23:20.959 And there's one scene in the documentary which took me 0:23:21.040 --> 0:23:24.480 back where it had the re enacting of you falling 0:23:24.520 --> 0:23:27.720 asleep and there's this person with a mask just kind 0:23:27.720 --> 0:23:28.960