1 00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:04,200 Speaker 1: That changes the directory of my life, and no doubt 2 00:00:04,200 --> 00:00:08,200 Speaker 1: without that choice, my feeling is I either would have 3 00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:10,399 Speaker 1: been in jail or Dad, I think. And for Dad 4 00:00:10,440 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 1: it was, you know, he'd kept his promise when he'd 5 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:17,680 Speaker 1: come back to get me, and he just looked me 6 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:19,680 Speaker 1: in the eyes, and obviously the expectation was that we 7 00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:22,360 Speaker 1: would just go and I didn't answer him straight away. 8 00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:25,599 Speaker 1: When we continue to just stare at each other across 9 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:26,759 Speaker 1: sitting on different couches. 10 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:33,479 Speaker 2: I'm Andrew Rulis's Life and Crimes. This is our third 11 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:39,240 Speaker 2: final episode of the reminiscences of Peter Morris, whose book 12 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:42,600 Speaker 2: The Bank Robber's Boy is the basis of three episodes 13 00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 2: of Life and Crimes. In this final episode, Peter is 14 00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:48,199 Speaker 2: going to talk to us about how he ended up 15 00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:53,800 Speaker 2: being reunited with his sister in Sheperdon and then embarking 16 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:56,760 Speaker 2: on a bit of a crime spree which led him 17 00:00:57,000 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 2: to a fork in the road. 18 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 1: Andrew, great to be back, and yeah, let's get this 19 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:03,720 Speaker 1: going again. 20 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 2: Peter. When we last spoke, you'd worked at a kmart 21 00:01:07,720 --> 00:01:10,600 Speaker 2: and you become a manager at the ripe old age 22 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:15,480 Speaker 2: of eleven nearly twelve. Then you were with a group 23 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:19,200 Speaker 2: of homeless kids in Perth living on the streets. But 24 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:23,480 Speaker 2: that didn't last either. You'd got back to Victoria and 25 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:27,160 Speaker 2: was reunited with your big sister Tina in Sheperdon. 26 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:31,080 Speaker 1: Tina enrolled me into Sheperdon High School, did you. Yeah, 27 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:33,280 Speaker 1: tried to do the right thing, and I went for 28 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:37,120 Speaker 1: a day one day, and then I day two, I 29 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:40,559 Speaker 1: decided that I would just start breaking into houses wish 30 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:44,039 Speaker 1: I had. Oh And the reason for that was that 31 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:46,640 Speaker 1: I knew that Dad would come back, so I was 32 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 1: collecting as much money as I could to ensure that 33 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 1: we had some money when Dad arrived, that we could 34 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:56,200 Speaker 1: just go back on our adventures. So at that start planning, 35 00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:57,480 Speaker 1: I was planning. 36 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 2: You weren't as keen on going because he had been. 37 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:04,440 Speaker 1: Nah, Look, I didn't think you know that. Certainly my 38 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 1: sister at the time felt like going to school was 39 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:11,280 Speaker 1: was probably a better path, rightfully. 40 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:13,280 Speaker 2: So, and funny your dad had been keen for you 41 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:17,320 Speaker 2: to work in port Headlands, Yeah, rather than embarking a 42 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:18,000 Speaker 2: life of crime. 43 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:21,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, And that wasn't always 44 00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:23,560 Speaker 1: the case, you know, if you go into sort of 45 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 1: earlier life in you know, certainly we were in Melbourne 46 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:29,639 Speaker 1: and we stayed at a flop house for a short while. 47 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:31,080 Speaker 2: At Gordon House. 48 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:33,760 Speaker 1: He'd encourage me to commit a few crimes back then 49 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 1: just to get us out of there. 50 00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:39,839 Speaker 2: So what sort of stuff the teachers teacher things he did? 51 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, so Melbourne baths, if anyone remembers that. So he 52 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:47,200 Speaker 1: had told me that I would be able to go 53 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:50,440 Speaker 1: into Melbourne bars, and he was spot on, and that 54 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:53,679 Speaker 1: the suits of the time would put all their belongings 55 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 1: able to locker and they would connect their locker key, 56 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:02,200 Speaker 1: which was on a safety into their towel. Right, so 57 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:05,080 Speaker 1: while they were swimming laps, I could walk along and 58 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:08,519 Speaker 1: just rip these rip these safety pins off the towels 59 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 1: because I had a locker number on it, Yes, and 60 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:13,839 Speaker 1: go in and all their wallets and all their belongings 61 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:17,200 Speaker 1: were in there. And in a matter of five minutes 62 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:20,720 Speaker 1: I got out with would have been about eight wallets 63 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 1: that I had any little backpack goal and just walked 64 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:27,760 Speaker 1: back out and yeah, said good a to the lady 65 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:30,640 Speaker 1: out the front, walked out the door, brought the wallets 66 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 1: back to Dad, and we had a heap of cash 67 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:33,960 Speaker 1: which helped a bit. 68 00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:36,960 Speaker 2: Longer, I see. So it was a mixture of motives 69 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 2: and motivations. So life, we've teen up school last one day. 70 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:44,000 Speaker 2: There's a couple of things here. You've ended up being 71 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:46,880 Speaker 2: a reader. You were a reader who's written a book. 72 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:49,720 Speaker 2: At what point did you sort of learn to read 73 00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 2: and become that person that likes to lose themselves in 74 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:56,040 Speaker 2: a book and to read. Where did that happen and 75 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:57,080 Speaker 2: who influenced you? 76 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 1: I think it was the gift, Well, certainly the use 77 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:03,960 Speaker 1: of the never ending. 78 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 2: Story, right, the one that that lady gave. 79 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, the one that she'd let me let me use, 80 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:12,920 Speaker 1: which is one of her son's books that had never 81 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:13,440 Speaker 1: been touched. 82 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:14,880 Speaker 2: Do you remember the son's names? 83 00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:23,680 Speaker 1: No? I don't know her husband, No, not really, but yeah, 84 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:25,880 Speaker 1: so anyway, she'd let me read this story. 85 00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:26,479 Speaker 2: Yeah. 86 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:32,040 Speaker 1: And I do remember that when Dad turned up to 87 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:35,080 Speaker 1: get me out that window, that I had considered taking 88 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 1: that book with me. And this is another moment, because 89 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:38,719 Speaker 1: I had that in my hand because I'd loved it 90 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:42,680 Speaker 1: so much. But then I had her enough respect for 91 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:44,600 Speaker 1: her for her to put it back on the bed. 92 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:48,200 Speaker 2: Good boy, but ignited something in you? 93 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:49,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, it did. 94 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:52,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, since the story could be written and Jesse, you 95 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:55,599 Speaker 2: could lose yourself in that in that infected you. It did, 96 00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 2: and it never really got disinfected. 97 00:04:57,360 --> 00:04:59,920 Speaker 1: No, no, And this is why, you know, the only 98 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:01,760 Speaker 1: thing that I wanted to you know, when I was 99 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:03,479 Speaker 1: working at Game Out, the only thing I wanted to 100 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 1: buy was something to read. And at the time it 101 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:06,600 Speaker 1: was comic. 102 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:08,360 Speaker 2: Book, which is fine as long as you read stories, 103 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:11,000 Speaker 2: doesn't matter what they And when you were at Shep, 104 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:13,120 Speaker 2: when you're out pinch and stuff, did you pinch books? 105 00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:17,160 Speaker 1: I didn't pinch books, but whenever I had money, I 106 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 1: used to go to the secondhand bookshop and buy copies 107 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:25,440 Speaker 1: of foot Rock Flats and all those sort of yeah, so, 108 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:27,760 Speaker 1: you know, and at the time they were obviously that 109 00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:30,720 Speaker 1: was a good yeah, but they were great. So I 110 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 1: was always buying something from the bookshop. 111 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:33,880 Speaker 2: I interviewed him. 112 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:36,919 Speaker 1: Oh really, yeah, yeah, that's pretty cool. 113 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:43,039 Speaker 2: And how do you sort of negotiate that from twelve 114 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:44,159 Speaker 2: to adulthood? 115 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:48,679 Speaker 1: Where so I got caught breaking into a detective's house. 116 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:51,479 Speaker 1: So that was a really great choice. I don't know 117 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:53,000 Speaker 1: in Shep in Shep. 118 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:56,400 Speaker 2: Not Norm Gillespie, not ken Mansell. 119 00:05:57,080 --> 00:05:59,679 Speaker 1: The reason I don't know is because I got caught 120 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 1: by his son. So I got caught in the house, 121 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:05,919 Speaker 1: so there was nobody home and his wife and his 122 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:10,800 Speaker 1: son came home. So I remember I was in a 123 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 1: room which was clearly a boys room, and there was 124 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:17,280 Speaker 1: some martial arts trophies and things in that and it 125 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:18,880 Speaker 1: was strange because. 126 00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:20,880 Speaker 2: It was a nice house out in the edge of town. 127 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:24,039 Speaker 1: It was yeah, And I remember Dad had always told 128 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:26,880 Speaker 1: me to have an escape, make sure you know if 129 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:28,840 Speaker 1: you and that was one thing, you know, always make 130 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:31,000 Speaker 1: sure you've got a way out before you you know. 131 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:33,960 Speaker 1: And this house had a deadlock on the back door, 132 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:36,520 Speaker 1: which I didn't know at the time, and I'd broken 133 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 1: some louvers to get in in the around the backyard, 134 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:44,360 Speaker 1: and I'd completely forgotten about how I would get out 135 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:49,400 Speaker 1: of someone come home, just just completely forgotten. And anyway, 136 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:51,480 Speaker 1: a car pulled up in the driveway and I heard 137 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:55,479 Speaker 1: a front door opening, and I ran to this back door. 138 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:59,239 Speaker 1: It was deadlocked. I had no way out, ran straight 139 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:01,640 Speaker 1: back into the bar room and there was a small 140 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:04,120 Speaker 1: window which I had to stand on the vanity to 141 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:08,599 Speaker 1: get out of, and by then this boy had flowing 142 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:11,840 Speaker 1: into this bathroom. I got out, and he ran outside 143 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:14,440 Speaker 1: and pulled me down off the fences. I was climbing over. 144 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:19,160 Speaker 1: But anyway, this lady sat me in the backyard on 145 00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:22,800 Speaker 1: a chair and rather than being angry man that I 146 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:25,600 Speaker 1: think the young fellow wanted to punch me in the nose. 147 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:29,160 Speaker 1: And she just looked at me and said, you know, 148 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 1: what's what's a boy? Your what are you doing? And 149 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 1: I was just probably a little bit defeated at the time, 150 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:38,000 Speaker 1: and just said, look, I'm just waiting for dad. I'm 151 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:41,920 Speaker 1: just stealing some things until Dad gets back. And then 152 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:44,960 Speaker 1: the way they really police turned up. They called the 153 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:48,920 Speaker 1: police and they called her by name, oh right, and 154 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:51,200 Speaker 1: then things started a click, and then they put me 155 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:53,320 Speaker 1: in the police car and they went, yeah, well done, 156 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:57,760 Speaker 1: an idiot. That's a detective's house. And they drove me 157 00:07:57,800 --> 00:07:59,800 Speaker 1: around shepherd In for a bit because they'd been this 158 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:01,120 Speaker 1: breing of breakings. 159 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 2: This would be about eight mid eighties. Yep. 160 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 1: I should look because I've got all these five and 161 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:09,560 Speaker 1: I haven't actually been through them. So I've got my 162 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 1: state ward case file, so all the police officers involved 163 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:17,000 Speaker 1: in this will be listed in that. That's amazing, So 164 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:19,520 Speaker 1: I just need to probably open them up. Man, It's yeah, 165 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:22,080 Speaker 1: it's all in there, so I will be able to 166 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 1: know who it was and who interviewed me when I 167 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 1: got back to the station, and all those sorts of things. 168 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:29,560 Speaker 2: So it was the son of big strong, redhead sort. 169 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:32,439 Speaker 1: Of black's fair haird I remember that. I don't know 170 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 1: about red hair, but he was a really strong I 171 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:38,000 Speaker 1: knew I had not all. 172 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:41,840 Speaker 2: These red head, reddish fair head boys, blue eyed, big strong, 173 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 2: cuugh floks right, and all footballers. And one of them, 174 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:48,079 Speaker 2: I'm for murdering Perth. Yeah's doing time over there now, 175 00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:53,400 Speaker 2: the cropper's bad son. Maybe I was lucky, So you're 176 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:57,960 Speaker 2: getting the stripe over that. Did you go into an institution? 177 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 1: No? No, no, I didn't actually, So what happened was 178 00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 1: this wife of the detective. She knew of a foster 179 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:09,480 Speaker 1: family who potentially would take me in for three weeks. 180 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:14,080 Speaker 1: It was just not a predetermined term at that stay. 181 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:16,679 Speaker 1: She just said, I think it's you know, rather than 182 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 1: being too hard on him, yeah, or rather than go 183 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 1: back to Tina, let's send him off to this family 184 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:25,679 Speaker 1: and just see let him cool down. Was a bit 185 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:28,839 Speaker 1: of a hot head as well, and I yes, I 186 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:31,680 Speaker 1: was sent to a family on a dairy farm in 187 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:36,880 Speaker 1: a small dairy farming community of Gagary, which is small 188 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 1: small town outside of Abram, not far away from Sheperdon. 189 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:43,880 Speaker 2: How was that look? 190 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:48,360 Speaker 1: It was meant to be three weeks beautiful family. They 191 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:51,880 Speaker 1: had six biological children of their own, two girls and 192 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:56,200 Speaker 1: four boys, ready to take another one in. And in 193 00:09:56,240 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 1: that three weeks I stole their car. So one night 194 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:01,840 Speaker 1: wieldered out of the push out of the driveway and 195 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:04,200 Speaker 1: took it for a driving into Kyabran, which was about 196 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:07,160 Speaker 1: twenty kilometers away, and took it for a spin and 197 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:10,480 Speaker 1: was just a need. It got caught doing that by 198 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:13,840 Speaker 1: the police a few other things in that three weeks, 199 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 1: and so when that three weeks was up, I'd expected 200 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:18,680 Speaker 1: that they would have been pretty happy to see the 201 00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:22,640 Speaker 1: end of me. But Joan Dullard was her name, the 202 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:26,320 Speaker 1: mother and Jack Dullard and the dairy farmer sat me 203 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:29,440 Speaker 1: down and said, would you like to stay and go 204 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:32,760 Speaker 1: to school and start to live a normal life, play 205 00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:35,600 Speaker 1: forty and do all those things? And I think it 206 00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 1: was probably at that time, when my brain was starting 207 00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:40,640 Speaker 1: to tick a little bit differently, that I knew it 208 00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:42,760 Speaker 1: was time to make some better choices. So I said yes, 209 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:45,040 Speaker 1: and you did, and I did. You stayed with the 210 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:46,280 Speaker 1: dull Art and I stayed there. 211 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:49,000 Speaker 2: How good is that? How long did you stay there. 212 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:50,600 Speaker 1: For the rest of my childhood? 213 00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 2: That was it? You're still friends? Yeah? 214 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, absolutely? Ye Jack Dulla my foster father died 215 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:03,400 Speaker 1: of cancer. She's she's in her nineties and living on 216 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 1: our own in a little, a little unit in Abram. 217 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:08,720 Speaker 1: Blind but still kind. 218 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:11,640 Speaker 2: Of still says hello when you're got Yeah, it was yeah, 219 00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:13,960 Speaker 2: due to go back. Are you younger than her children? 220 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:18,000 Speaker 1: I was that she had one child, Elizabeth, younger than me, 221 00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:21,920 Speaker 1: so we're all about Yeah. So I went to year 222 00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:25,760 Speaker 1: eight at Saint Augustin's in Kyabram. That's where they sent me. 223 00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:30,560 Speaker 1: The youngest daughter was in grade six at the times. Okay, good, 224 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:32,600 Speaker 1: great family. 225 00:11:32,679 --> 00:11:34,480 Speaker 2: And so you went to which school? 226 00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:35,080 Speaker 1: St. 227 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:39,160 Speaker 2: Augustin Agustine? You just said, I'm sorry and you went 228 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:40,319 Speaker 2: there to what level? 229 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:43,880 Speaker 1: So that that school finished in year ten and then 230 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:46,920 Speaker 1: we all transferred across to cai Abram High School where 231 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:52,080 Speaker 1: I finished. You Yeah, Kai Hi Kai High played played 232 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:55,080 Speaker 1: foot you cay Abron Bombers. 233 00:11:56,760 --> 00:12:01,080 Speaker 2: Even though you're from the north, turned into an a play. Yeah. 234 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:03,959 Speaker 1: I hadn't sort of touched a footy until year eight. 235 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:05,360 Speaker 2: About that age. 236 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:07,200 Speaker 1: You got the right bill for it, got the right 237 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 1: bill for it, and I played center for it, Kai. 238 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:16,160 Speaker 2: Did you. Yeah, that's the that's the big position. Yeah. 239 00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:19,960 Speaker 1: Now, you know, as a six foot one or whatever, 240 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:22,240 Speaker 1: I wouldn't you wouldn't hold that down these days, you'd 241 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:23,480 Speaker 1: be lucky to be your midfield of it. 242 00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:26,600 Speaker 2: Yeah. Well that's good, Peter. 243 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:30,920 Speaker 1: You are managing what CEO of Club Coora, which is 244 00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:35,040 Speaker 1: you know, a licensed club license hospitality venue with poker 245 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:37,319 Speaker 1: machines and bars and restaurants. 246 00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:39,880 Speaker 2: How many staff are you running there? 247 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:41,000 Speaker 1: Almost one hundred. 248 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:44,840 Speaker 2: So this means that Warren't import Headland had you pegged 249 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:47,360 Speaker 2: as an eleven year old as that sort of guy. 250 00:12:47,559 --> 00:12:49,559 Speaker 2: He did. He worked it out. How many years it 251 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:52,880 Speaker 2: to take you from eleven to when you got the 252 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:55,400 Speaker 2: big gig at Coroa y Corral. 253 00:12:55,679 --> 00:12:59,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, took a little while. The Dullard family, who were 254 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:01,160 Speaker 1: so nice to me, you know, had to take me 255 00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:03,600 Speaker 1: to court for all those break ins that i'd performed, 256 00:13:04,559 --> 00:13:07,679 Speaker 1: And I remember the judge at the time said to me, 257 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:11,400 Speaker 1: I don't know whether you're the worst twelve year old 258 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:14,600 Speaker 1: criminal I've ever come across, where you're just a kid 259 00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:18,959 Speaker 1: who's had a bad starting life. And again that was 260 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:21,719 Speaker 1: a bit of a pivotal message for me that it 261 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:23,040 Speaker 1: was time to make some changes. 262 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:24,120 Speaker 2: Was that in Shep? 263 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:25,040 Speaker 1: I was in Shep? 264 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:28,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, and that was that Magistrate's caught a ship magic. Yeah, 265 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:30,960 Speaker 2: that was a good thing. It was a good thing 266 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:33,839 Speaker 2: you gave you. I looked at you, and you didn't 267 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:36,320 Speaker 2: look like a complete reptile. Yeah. 268 00:13:36,559 --> 00:13:39,679 Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah, I think probably saw something in 269 00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:40,480 Speaker 1: me that, well. 270 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:42,839 Speaker 2: You've got us have an open face. Yeah. Yeah, you 271 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:45,719 Speaker 2: don't look as if you're going to walk up knife somebody. No. No. 272 00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:49,560 Speaker 1: So I received a good behavior bond for that, and yeah, 273 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:52,400 Speaker 1: and some money that I sort of had to pay 274 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:56,000 Speaker 1: back restitution for the broken windows and things of it 275 00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 1: that I had just stole along along the way, which 276 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:02,559 Speaker 1: was about fifteen sixteen hundred dollars at the time. When 277 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:06,599 Speaker 1: I had a job cleaning up a butcher shop on 278 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:08,600 Speaker 1: a Friday night. That gave me ten bucks a week, 279 00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:10,600 Speaker 1: so I was meant to put half of that away 280 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:12,319 Speaker 1: and gradually pay that. 281 00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:17,839 Speaker 2: You've always been a worker, So the total some lesson 282 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:20,440 Speaker 2: is that over the journey you've had some very bad 283 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:23,360 Speaker 2: treatment and awful things happened to you, but you've also 284 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:26,560 Speaker 2: had these moments where people have been very good and 285 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:31,360 Speaker 2: very kind, the waitress with the muffin. You've had a 286 00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:33,400 Speaker 2: few lucky breaks as well as unlucky breaks. 287 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:35,280 Speaker 1: I've had plenty of lucky breaks. And I think it's 288 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:39,920 Speaker 1: just that ability to see the light in the darkness. Sometimes, 289 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:44,400 Speaker 1: even when I was sitting in Baltara, you know, and 290 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:48,560 Speaker 1: on the receiving end of some pretty horrific abuse, I 291 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:51,200 Speaker 1: still manage to know that there were better days ahead. 292 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:54,480 Speaker 1: Is just just in my psyche. Whether they can't really 293 00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:59,080 Speaker 1: explain that, but kept constantly finding the positives in any situation. 294 00:14:59,200 --> 00:14:59,600 Speaker 1: I still do. 295 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:03,720 Speaker 2: Now you're to be sort of bruttal about it or 296 00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:07,000 Speaker 2: practical about it. Your father's troubles to some extent would 297 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:11,400 Speaker 2: probably go back to you'd say, gamling, gamling addiction. A 298 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:14,320 Speaker 2: lot of people have different addictions. That was his. It 299 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:17,680 Speaker 2: wasn't a heavy drinker, no, definitely not. You haven't been 300 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 2: saddled with an addiction, yep, I. 301 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:22,440 Speaker 1: Reckon I have you have? Yeah? Well, and I think 302 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:26,240 Speaker 1: mine is. It's mine's a different addiction. Mine is trying 303 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:28,360 Speaker 1: the best way to put to say this, My addiction 304 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:30,320 Speaker 1: is if I'm going to do something, it has to 305 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:37,360 Speaker 1: be done to the absolute top, maybe not even my 306 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:40,120 Speaker 1: ability at the time. A good example is I was 307 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:43,520 Speaker 1: doing some running on a running track and I run past. 308 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:47,760 Speaker 1: There's an athletics coach there and I'm watching him teach 309 00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:52,720 Speaker 1: people how to do pole volt and he says, do 310 00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:53,960 Speaker 1: you want it? Do you want to try this? And 311 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:56,320 Speaker 1: now I'm in my forties at the time, do you 312 00:15:56,360 --> 00:15:57,960 Speaker 1: want to crack? And I went, oh, yeah, I'll try. 313 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:02,440 Speaker 1: And as terrible as you would be, Popot's not an 314 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:06,040 Speaker 1: easy thing to learn, you know. So I spent the 315 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:09,600 Speaker 1: next year just turning up and pop voting and pole 316 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:13,160 Speaker 1: woding and pole voting until I went to New Zealand 317 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:16,320 Speaker 1: and competed in a pole voting competition and won a 318 00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:16,760 Speaker 1: gold medal. 319 00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:17,640 Speaker 2: You know. 320 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:21,360 Speaker 1: In twenty twenty three, I decided, after COVID i was 321 00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:25,280 Speaker 1: a runner, that I'll try bodybuilding. Yeah, and I so 322 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:29,280 Speaker 1: turn up at a bodybuilding comp in Melbourne actually and 323 00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:32,200 Speaker 1: you know, won some silver medals, and I'm not done. 324 00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:33,720 Speaker 2: Oh I need to wring gold. 325 00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:37,640 Speaker 1: I need to engulf. So went back here, went back 326 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:39,920 Speaker 1: last year and won six gold medals and bodybuilding and 327 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:41,160 Speaker 1: I said, now I'm. 328 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:43,400 Speaker 2: Done now I'm done. Now I can write books. 329 00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:45,600 Speaker 1: So that's one thing that I have realized is for 330 00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:48,520 Speaker 1: me years to identify the thing we're not just for me, 331 00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:50,480 Speaker 1: for lots of people, to identify the thing that you 332 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:52,120 Speaker 1: want to achieve the most. You know a lot of 333 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:55,560 Speaker 1: people have these, you know, multiple things floating in their 334 00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:57,560 Speaker 1: life that I like to do, and I think I'll 335 00:16:57,600 --> 00:16:59,480 Speaker 1: pick one off and do it. Good good advice is 336 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:00,440 Speaker 1: to pick one often do it. 337 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:04,240 Speaker 2: Is that right? That's that's what we've got everything out 338 00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:06,800 Speaker 2: of this interview. You know how to be a crook, 339 00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:08,640 Speaker 2: can not to be a crook? You haven't forgot the lot? 340 00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 1: Well, someone said to me the other day, it's just again, 341 00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:13,600 Speaker 1: not just a lof story. He said, I've been thinking 342 00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:15,520 Speaker 1: about buying a muscle card. Peete, He goes, but I 343 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:17,760 Speaker 1: just I've been thinking about it for bloody years. Why 344 00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:20,440 Speaker 1: haven't I done it? And I said, well, is that 345 00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:22,159 Speaker 1: the thing you want to buy? Is that the thing 346 00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:23,800 Speaker 1: you want to do the most? Or is there other things? 347 00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:26,160 Speaker 1: And he said, well, now it's probably not at the top. 348 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:27,920 Speaker 1: And I said, well that's why you haven't done it. 349 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:30,800 Speaker 1: Identify the thing you want the most and do it. 350 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:36,680 Speaker 2: Do that you're a life coach. You could something you're 351 00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:39,280 Speaker 2: good for your life coach. Now, we just we mentioned 352 00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:41,560 Speaker 2: the book here and there, but how did this one 353 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:44,920 Speaker 2: come about? When did you start writing it? How did 354 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:46,840 Speaker 2: you start writing it? Is it two o'clock in the 355 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:50,800 Speaker 2: morning with a laptop or a notebook on top of 356 00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:52,399 Speaker 2: the grandstand or what. 357 00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:56,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, the idea of it came up a few years ago, 358 00:17:57,280 --> 00:18:00,119 Speaker 1: and yeah, it was. It was generally just just the 359 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:03,040 Speaker 1: thought of I could probably write a book about all 360 00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:07,760 Speaker 1: this and in the hope of telling my story and 361 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:11,400 Speaker 1: helping some people around the power of choice and decision 362 00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:15,720 Speaker 1: making because ultimately, you know, I make a huge choice 363 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:18,600 Speaker 1: in that in my story, in my life that changes 364 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:21,679 Speaker 1: the directory of my life. And no doubt without that choice, 365 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:24,959 Speaker 1: you know, my feeling is I either would have been 366 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:25,879 Speaker 1: in jail or dad, I. 367 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:27,960 Speaker 2: Think, absolutely, no doubt. 368 00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:31,080 Speaker 1: So, so the power of choice and the reasoning behind 369 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:34,240 Speaker 1: that is, you know, without thinking about it, we all face, 370 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:37,440 Speaker 1: you know, these multiple choices every day that changed the 371 00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:40,840 Speaker 1: chrectory of our day, of our life, of our journeys. 372 00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:44,560 Speaker 1: Just so powerful of something that we don't always think about, 373 00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:47,679 Speaker 1: you know, we just do. So that was the reason, 374 00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:51,360 Speaker 1: the how is a little bit different because it wasn't 375 00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:55,520 Speaker 1: no writer. I wasn't an author, clearly. Yeah. So I 376 00:18:56,760 --> 00:19:00,159 Speaker 1: reached out to I've got a mentor, Mark Dobbs and 377 00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:04,200 Speaker 1: who has helped me along a little bit, just business 378 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:06,639 Speaker 1: stuff and a really good bloke and he seems to 379 00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:09,440 Speaker 1: know everybody. So I reached out to him and said 380 00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:11,000 Speaker 1: I want to write a book, and he goes, yeah, 381 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:13,120 Speaker 1: I can't help you, but I know someone who can. 382 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:18,560 Speaker 1: So there's an author, filmmaker, doctor Luke Jackson, who linked 383 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:23,159 Speaker 1: me with who helped me plan I think if it 384 00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:26,280 Speaker 1: was just me, I would have just wrote chapter one 385 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:29,240 Speaker 1: type chapter one and then just started writing. And he said, no, no, no, 386 00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:31,280 Speaker 1: we need to plan it out, which was the best 387 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:34,639 Speaker 1: advice I've ever given. So anyone who hasn't written a 388 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:35,800 Speaker 1: book and wants to you. 389 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:39,359 Speaker 2: Sat down with him and said, chatted about it, and then. 390 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:43,720 Speaker 1: Probably for two months on a few hours, await it, 391 00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:46,960 Speaker 1: white ported it. And by the time we'd finished that, 392 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:51,200 Speaker 1: I had this complete plan that whenever you know, so 393 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:53,679 Speaker 1: chapter one, I knew exactly what stories I was going 394 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:56,240 Speaker 1: to put in chapter one, chapter two, and so on, 395 00:19:56,520 --> 00:20:00,280 Speaker 1: and every now and again writing and I've writing chapter one, 396 00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:03,760 Speaker 1: I would just be sort of morphing into chapter two. 397 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:05,439 Speaker 1: So then i'd go back to the plank. Go okay, 398 00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:08,240 Speaker 1: I was actually meant to finish back there. Okay, so 399 00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:12,320 Speaker 1: I could see it taking shape. Yeah, So without that plan, 400 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:15,040 Speaker 1: I think I might have got there. But you know, 401 00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:17,879 Speaker 1: it probably wouldn't have been as clean and flowing as 402 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:18,199 Speaker 1: it is. 403 00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:21,760 Speaker 2: As it is, so that that helped was It's deceptively 404 00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:25,920 Speaker 2: simple looking, which is what the best writing is. Of course, 405 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:29,760 Speaker 2: it's clear, but it pulls the reader through it because 406 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:32,840 Speaker 2: it has the appearance of being that natural story, natural, 407 00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:36,160 Speaker 2: which of course the art of it is to disguise 408 00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:41,240 Speaker 2: all the joints, all the invisible mendings invisible and the other. 409 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:42,680 Speaker 1: Things that I said to him, I said, I want 410 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:45,040 Speaker 1: to keep it authentic. I don't want the facts to 411 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:48,080 Speaker 1: change because as I remember them. Yes, so I don't 412 00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:51,920 Speaker 1: want any kind of creative liberty from your side as 413 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:54,560 Speaker 1: an editor. I just want, you know how, I want 414 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:57,440 Speaker 1: some help maybe helping it fly or pulling it together, 415 00:20:57,560 --> 00:20:59,080 Speaker 1: but don't change the story. 416 00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:02,600 Speaker 2: And that's to Luke Jackson is in Aubrey or no, No, 417 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:06,080 Speaker 2: he's Melbourne based. Melbourne based. Okay, that's interesting. So he's 418 00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:07,159 Speaker 2: been a bit of a mentor to you. 419 00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:08,600 Speaker 1: He was mentor for me. 420 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:12,720 Speaker 2: So along the way you've struck some very good people. Yes, 421 00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:16,960 Speaker 2: if we leave the bad people out, I guess n 422 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:20,960 Speaker 2: Pop Bobby each way maybe, but yeah, they were there, 423 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:21,640 Speaker 2: they were there. 424 00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:24,160 Speaker 1: They had no hard feelings for them, Heather. 425 00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:27,840 Speaker 2: They gave you the book in que and all the 426 00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:32,560 Speaker 2: way through the footh headline manager to Warren yep. And 427 00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:34,800 Speaker 2: then and then of course the family. 428 00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:38,560 Speaker 1: Family and the Dullard family. You know, the greatest impact 429 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:40,000 Speaker 1: of any one on my life. 430 00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:42,640 Speaker 2: At a time when you could have got totally off 431 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:43,560 Speaker 2: the rails. 432 00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:46,840 Speaker 1: Oh absolutely, and you know and quite openly without their 433 00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:49,520 Speaker 1: evolving in my life. Yeah, it would have been very different. 434 00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:52,159 Speaker 1: And just that, you know, that just that hand of 435 00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:56,439 Speaker 1: kindness to say stay, we've got you're part of our family. 436 00:21:56,560 --> 00:21:58,840 Speaker 1: And and to never feel like I wasn't part of 437 00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:03,680 Speaker 1: the family. If they bought clothes for their kids, then 438 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:05,840 Speaker 1: I got closed as well. If they got an ice cream, 439 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:08,600 Speaker 1: I got nice just simple things. But just to felt like, 440 00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:11,400 Speaker 1: just to feel like you belonged practical Christianity. 441 00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:14,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, has that's given you a sort of a 442 00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:17,119 Speaker 2: belief system seeing that their example. 443 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:20,760 Speaker 1: I'm not a Christian, but it certainly give me a 444 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:26,159 Speaker 1: belief system in kindness, in treating as you treated, and 445 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:31,000 Speaker 1: just not missing the yet to small opportunities of kindness 446 00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:34,080 Speaker 1: that you know, you may not realize the impact that 447 00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:36,720 Speaker 1: they have on someone's life, as small as they might be. 448 00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:40,159 Speaker 1: And that is you know, sometimes it might be for 449 00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:45,480 Speaker 1: me sitting down with a homeless person who everybody walks past, 450 00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:47,480 Speaker 1: and I've done that a number of times, and you know, 451 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:53,200 Speaker 1: and you know, one of those conversations was a a 452 00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:58,200 Speaker 1: homeless man who used to be a lawyer who decided 453 00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:00,359 Speaker 1: one night to drink drive and wiped out a family 454 00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:03,600 Speaker 1: and that was his punishment to himself, was that he 455 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:08,480 Speaker 1: didn't deserve a bed, didn't deserve to be warm. So 456 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:12,159 Speaker 1: we were sitting on the pavement punishing himself for the 457 00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:15,360 Speaker 1: rest of his life. Where was that was in Melbourne? Yeah, 458 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:20,040 Speaker 1: just on Colin Street. So there's moments of kindness and 459 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:22,280 Speaker 1: for me just to sit and have a conversation and 460 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:24,560 Speaker 1: you know, who knows what the impact that had for him. 461 00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:29,159 Speaker 1: But that's just one moment. But but yeah, but in 462 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:32,720 Speaker 1: terms of the book, it was three or four hundred words. 463 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:34,760 Speaker 2: A night, three or four hundred words a night. That's 464 00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:37,360 Speaker 2: not a bad telling if the words are okay. 465 00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:40,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's it. Well, I found after that that the 466 00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:43,760 Speaker 1: quality would drop off for me. You know, other people 467 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:45,600 Speaker 1: I've spoken to other authors who seemed to be able 468 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:47,399 Speaker 1: to punch out thousands, but for me. 469 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:50,680 Speaker 2: They don't punch out thousands of very good works of quality. Yeah. 470 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:53,440 Speaker 1: And of course the other part of this was that 471 00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:56,480 Speaker 1: me finishing a chapter and you know some of the 472 00:23:57,119 --> 00:23:59,480 Speaker 1: obviously some of the stories in there are quite difficult 473 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:04,040 Speaker 1: to I would just flick them to Luke Jackson to edit, 474 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:07,840 Speaker 1: and then he would send me a message bloody hell, 475 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:10,280 Speaker 1: Pete like this is heavy, and I'm now thinking about 476 00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:12,000 Speaker 1: the impact of my kids. And I'm like, oh, you know, 477 00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:13,600 Speaker 1: because I would just write it and then just go 478 00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:16,560 Speaker 1: that's not my problem anymore, that's yours, send it off 479 00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:19,040 Speaker 1: for editing. And he would sit there and not sleep 480 00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:22,880 Speaker 1: for the night. So but yeah, you know, without his help, Yeah, 481 00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:24,120 Speaker 1: you know, certainly when I got. 482 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:28,679 Speaker 2: There, Peter. The one thing we haven't approached, and listeners 483 00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:32,359 Speaker 2: will be wondering this. We know that your mother disappeared, 484 00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:35,880 Speaker 2: either ran away or whatever, but what happened to your father? 485 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:42,119 Speaker 1: Yeah, so as I was living with the Dullards, you know, 486 00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:44,480 Speaker 1: and going to school and playing footy and you know, 487 00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:49,200 Speaker 1: and starting to live a normal life, Dad featured on 488 00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:52,680 Speaker 1: you know, a TV show called Australia's Most Wanted. For 489 00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:56,159 Speaker 1: those that remember that Dad was the main, yeah, the 490 00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:58,440 Speaker 1: main criminal featured to see was first up on that 491 00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:02,320 Speaker 1: TV show, sitting in the land room with the Dullard 492 00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:07,399 Speaker 1: family and up pop Dad's face, which was for me 493 00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:12,400 Speaker 1: obviously a shock to see Dad on TV. But instantly 494 00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:15,480 Speaker 1: I knew that he was no longer in jail. I 495 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:18,080 Speaker 1: hadn't known that he'd escaped. I hadn't been told that. 496 00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:22,159 Speaker 1: And you know, for those that get the chance to 497 00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:24,720 Speaker 1: read my book, The Bankrobbers Boy, you'll see that Dad 498 00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:27,720 Speaker 1: continues to make this promise that if he gets out, 499 00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:30,520 Speaker 1: he's coming back to get me. So I knew that 500 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:33,280 Speaker 1: would be the case. I would spend every second weekend 501 00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:37,640 Speaker 1: at my sister Tina's house. So one weekend, not long 502 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:41,080 Speaker 1: after Dad featured on Australias Most Wanted, went to her 503 00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:44,080 Speaker 1: house and she put me in the car and drove 504 00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:48,400 Speaker 1: circles around Shepherd and ensure she wasn't being followed, And yeah, 505 00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:51,840 Speaker 1: took me to this sort of nondescript unit with no 506 00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:55,640 Speaker 1: furniture in it, and we walked inside and Dad walked 507 00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:57,800 Speaker 1: out of a bedroom and you know, we hugged and 508 00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:02,680 Speaker 1: obviously had, you know, just this moment of amazing moment, 509 00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:04,960 Speaker 1: I've been back together again. And that went on for 510 00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:09,040 Speaker 1: a short while and every second weekend, and there was 511 00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:14,200 Speaker 1: one moment when I went there and I'd been asked 512 00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:18,440 Speaker 1: to bring some extra clothes by my sister, and you know, 513 00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:20,680 Speaker 1: Dad sat me down and said, look, it's I can't 514 00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:23,560 Speaker 1: stay here any longer. It's the police are going to 515 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:26,480 Speaker 1: eventually realize that I'm going to be hanging around where 516 00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:30,560 Speaker 1: my children are. We need to go. And this was 517 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:34,240 Speaker 1: the pivotal decision in my life. And for Dad it was, 518 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:37,880 Speaker 1: you know, he'd kept his promise when he'd come back 519 00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:41,640 Speaker 1: to get me, and he just looked me in the eyes, 520 00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:43,720 Speaker 1: and obviously the expectation was that we would just go, 521 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:47,320 Speaker 1: and I didn't answer him straight away when we continue 522 00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:50,280 Speaker 1: to just stare at each other across sitting on different couches, 523 00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:54,240 Speaker 1: and I eventually just looked him in the eye and said, Dad, 524 00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:57,000 Speaker 1: I can't I can't do that anymore. I can't do 525 00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:01,000 Speaker 1: this anymore, and I wanted better for myself. And look, 526 00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:05,000 Speaker 1: he had tears running down his eyes when he didn't 527 00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:08,960 Speaker 1: say much, and he gave me a quick hug and 528 00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:12,520 Speaker 1: walked out the door. And he was apprehended not long 529 00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:16,840 Speaker 1: after that and returned back to Fremantle jail. It was 530 00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:19,840 Speaker 1: a few months and you started writing letters to me, 531 00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:24,440 Speaker 1: and I noticed in the letters that his handwriting was 532 00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:28,240 Speaker 1: getting a little messy, and his recollection of events was 533 00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:33,720 Speaker 1: getting a little vague. And yeah, so he had early 534 00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:37,680 Speaker 1: on set Alzheimer's. Yeah, yeah, and yeah, was moved to 535 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:41,520 Speaker 1: a sort of a jail infirmary and yeah, passed away 536 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:45,280 Speaker 1: there he was. I would have been, that would have 537 00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:48,840 Speaker 1: been in probably eighty no one, I reckon. 538 00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:52,760 Speaker 2: Well, you've written a book, The Bank Robbers boy by you, 539 00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:56,280 Speaker 2: Peter Norris, other people have helped you along the way. 540 00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:59,400 Speaker 2: You've I think they mentioned nearly all of them. It's 541 00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:02,320 Speaker 2: a remarkable thing. And I'm pleased I ran into you 542 00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:05,399 Speaker 2: at that little ride at festival, because had I not 543 00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:08,359 Speaker 2: done that, I may not have got to read it 544 00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:11,200 Speaker 2: or to talk to you. Yeah, so we thank you 545 00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:15,200 Speaker 2: for coming all this way. You've come from Aubridonka via 546 00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:18,720 Speaker 2: Tasmania just to talk to us. Yes, and I know 547 00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:23,440 Speaker 2: that our listeners will be fascinated by your rise and 548 00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:28,080 Speaker 2: rise from a place that could have been very dark, yeah, 549 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:30,840 Speaker 2: and could have ended very badly, could have been yeah. 550 00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:33,680 Speaker 1: But again, those those small lacs of kindness along the 551 00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:36,920 Speaker 1: way have been yeah, been super important to where I 552 00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:38,840 Speaker 1: am today. So be grateful, fellows. 553 00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:48,360 Speaker 2: Thanks Beta, thanks for listening. Life and Crimes is a 554 00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:52,960 Speaker 2: Sunday Herald Sun production for True Crime Australia. Our producer 555 00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:56,960 Speaker 2: is Johnty Burton. For my columns, features and more, go 556 00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:02,960 Speaker 2: to harold'sun dot com dot a forward slash andrew rule 557 00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:09,000 Speaker 2: one word. For advertising inquiries, go to news podcasts sold 558 00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:12,880 Speaker 2: at news dot com dot au. That is all one 559 00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:18,080 Speaker 2: word news podcasts sold And if you want further information 560 00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:22,040 Speaker 2: about this episode, links are in the description.