1 00:00:05,680 --> 00:00:08,440 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Fear and Greed Business Interview. I'm Sean Alma. 2 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:11,320 Speaker 1: The rental boom in Australia might be over, with rent 3 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:15,600 Speaker 1: increases across most capitalist cities stalling Domains of Rent. Report 4 00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:18,720 Speaker 1: shows that after the steepest and longest rental surge in 5 00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:22,080 Speaker 1: history and your rent rises for houses have hit multi 6 00:00:22,239 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 1: year lows in Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, Perth and Oi. A 7 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:29,440 Speaker 1: Doctor Nikola Powell is Domain's chief of Research and Economics. Nikola, 8 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 1: welcome back to Fear and Greed. 9 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:32,520 Speaker 2: Hi, thanks for having me on again. 10 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:36,640 Speaker 1: So is this it is this the end of the 11 00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:39,280 Speaker 1: rental boom. We're not saying they're going backwards, but is 12 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:41,520 Speaker 1: it the end of the big increases? 13 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:46,280 Speaker 2: Oh? Absolutely, I think that that explosive rental growth that 14 00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:49,199 Speaker 2: we've seen over the last four years is absolutely in 15 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:51,680 Speaker 2: the rear view. You know, we've got to remember it 16 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:54,800 Speaker 2: is still a landlords market, technically, still a landlds market 17 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:57,560 Speaker 2: across all of our capital cities. But we've got a 18 00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:01,920 Speaker 2: deceleration of rental growth quite rapid actually across many capital cities, 19 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 2: across most of them. And so what it's actually shown 20 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:07,240 Speaker 2: is we are past that peak rate of rental growth, 21 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:10,600 Speaker 2: and we've even got some capital cities into clients. Brisbane 22 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:13,080 Speaker 2: declient over the corner, both the house and unit rent 23 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:15,680 Speaker 2: So I actually think that's quite a surprise. I've got 24 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:18,040 Speaker 2: to remember that Brisbane is still a landlord's market, and 25 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:21,600 Speaker 2: I think it really showcases the financial strain that tenants 26 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:22,039 Speaker 2: are under. 27 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 1: Okay, so if we dig into that a little bit, 28 00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:27,920 Speaker 1: it's a landlord's market. Does that mean that there isn't 29 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:30,559 Speaker 1: a lot of rental stock available? Is that what that means? 30 00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:35,840 Speaker 1: And if that's the case, why are prices stalling or 31 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:36,880 Speaker 1: price growth stalling? 32 00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:40,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, so it is still technically a landlord's market. So 33 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:43,040 Speaker 2: the vacancy rate, we like it to sit between two 34 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:46,000 Speaker 2: and three percent to be balanced between landlords and tenants, 35 00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:48,920 Speaker 2: and at the moment, every single capital city still has 36 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:52,040 Speaker 2: a vacancy rate below two percent. But I think the 37 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:56,080 Speaker 2: key change has been vacancy rates are improving. So what 38 00:01:56,120 --> 00:01:57,800 Speaker 2: we are seeing, the way I describe it is a 39 00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 2: rebalance between supply and demands. Still not yet balanced, but 40 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:03,880 Speaker 2: it's in improving. And that is because one of the 41 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:07,000 Speaker 2: couple of reasons, we've got demand side pressures easy, but 42 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:10,919 Speaker 2: we've also got supply increasing also. Now one of the 43 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 2: biggest changes has been the increase in investment activity. And 44 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:16,760 Speaker 2: when you look across all the states and territory, is 45 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:22,359 Speaker 2: the participation based on lending finance to investors is now 46 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:25,400 Speaker 2: above the decade average across every single capital city and 47 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:28,200 Speaker 2: it's rising year on year. Our caveat that with The 48 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 2: only state that deviates from that is Victoria. 49 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:36,760 Speaker 1: Okay, so just parking Victoria, it goes against kind of 50 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:38,799 Speaker 1: what I thought was going on. You're saying, so there 51 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 1: is actually a lot of investor Maybe it's not new 52 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:43,040 Speaker 1: stock coming on the market. Is that the issue. It's 53 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:47,160 Speaker 1: actually invested buying old stock and therefore renting it out 54 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:49,560 Speaker 1: because we still have the housing crisis, we still don't 55 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 1: have enough homes. 56 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:54,520 Speaker 2: Absolutely, I think it is investors buying that older stock. 57 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:57,560 Speaker 2: Iman there is obviously that new stock coming on also, 58 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:01,399 Speaker 2: but I think it's a balance between that demand and supply, 59 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:04,639 Speaker 2: that rebalance occurring. So when you look at the demand 60 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:08,800 Speaker 2: side pressures, net overseas migration has fallen from its peak, 61 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:12,160 Speaker 2: and we know that a large portion of people arriving 62 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:14,400 Speaker 2: from overseas tend to rent. And when you look at 63 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:18,120 Speaker 2: the stats, net overseas migration is now nineteen percent below 64 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 2: the peak that was back in March of twenty twenty three, 65 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:24,400 Speaker 2: and that peak of net overseas migration actually aligns to 66 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:27,400 Speaker 2: the peak greater rental growth also, so we've got a 67 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:31,239 Speaker 2: slow down in people arriving from overseas. But I also think, 68 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:33,959 Speaker 2: I mean, it's not the sole reason. I also think 69 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:39,320 Speaker 2: that we are seeing affordability barriers actually driving demographic shifts, 70 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:43,680 Speaker 2: and I think it's really prompting tenants to reevaluate how 71 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:45,880 Speaker 2: are they going to financially manage? So it does mean 72 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:49,760 Speaker 2: that you see these scenarios of increased household formation, and 73 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 2: what we mean by that in the rental market is 74 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:54,880 Speaker 2: people get a housemate or they move back in with 75 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 2: mum and dad in order to cost cuts. So that 76 00:03:57,240 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 2: takes away some element of demand pressure. 77 00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:03,640 Speaker 1: Okay, And the point here is that rents are still 78 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:06,840 Speaker 1: really high. It's expensive to live in some of these cities. 79 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 1: Not Melbourne. Well sorry, Melbourne might be expensive. That it's 80 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 1: one of the least expensive. Is that right? 81 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:15,280 Speaker 2: That is right? And I think this is the you know, 82 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 2: the key nuances really of this rent report is you know, 83 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:22,480 Speaker 2: there's two main messages. One is rent growth is absolutely slowing. 84 00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:26,279 Speaker 2: Vacancy rates are improving because we've seen supply start to rise, 85 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:29,200 Speaker 2: but we have to remember it is still technically a 86 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:32,560 Speaker 2: landlord's market and tenants are still facing record levels of 87 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:36,160 Speaker 2: rent pricing and layer that with cost of living pressures. 88 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:39,680 Speaker 2: It really has been a challenging time. I think financially, 89 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:43,039 Speaker 2: you know, tenants are under financial strain, and I think 90 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:48,480 Speaker 2: that financial strain is really shifting decisions decisions on where 91 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:51,719 Speaker 2: they live, who they live, with compromises they're going to 92 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:54,520 Speaker 2: make in terms of suburb in terms of property type, 93 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:57,919 Speaker 2: or you know, forgoing the extra bedroom. And I think 94 00:04:58,160 --> 00:04:59,720 Speaker 2: we have to remember as well, there's a lot of 95 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:02,040 Speaker 2: ten and it's really locked into the rental market because 96 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:05,479 Speaker 2: we've got such high purchasing prices, particularly in a market 97 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:08,320 Speaker 2: like Sydney. So what that means is people are renting 98 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:12,160 Speaker 2: for longer because the ability to actually save to purchase 99 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:15,159 Speaker 2: their first home. You know, that goalpost continues to nudge 100 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:16,159 Speaker 2: further and further away. 101 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:18,720 Speaker 1: Stay with me. Nikola will be back in a minute. 102 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:28,159 Speaker 1: My guest this morning is doctor Nikola Powell from Demain. 103 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 1: What are the reasons that a house in Sydney I'm 104 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:34,120 Speaker 1: going to get the numbers wrong, Nicholas, so correct me 105 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:35,839 Speaker 1: if I'm wrong. I think was seven. I think the 106 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:39,120 Speaker 1: medium was seven seventy five and a unit was about 107 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:41,960 Speaker 1: seven twenty. I think Melbourne was five eighty and five 108 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:44,880 Speaker 1: fifty if I get that right thereabouts. Why is it 109 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 1: so much cheaper in Melbourne than Sydney. 110 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 2: Well you've got that one hundred percent right, So that's 111 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 2: Brownie points there myself. Yeah, well, some great memory. Overall, 112 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:57,840 Speaker 2: Melbourne's been a really interesting market, and Melbourne's been the 113 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 2: one really that's bucked compared to other capital cities. We 114 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 2: haven't seen such strong rates of rental growth during the 115 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 2: peak of the pandemic. And the interesting dynamic, particularly for 116 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 2: the rental space, is investors aren't really going back into 117 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:17,039 Speaker 2: Melbourne's property market because it really has weak growth potential. 118 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:19,839 Speaker 2: And we know that investors chase that capital growth, that's 119 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:22,240 Speaker 2: what they look for, so they're shying away from Melbourne. 120 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:24,880 Speaker 2: They're looking towards more affordable markets. But also there's been 121 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:28,160 Speaker 2: taxation changes, so there's a bit of a buyer segment 122 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:31,560 Speaker 2: shift going on in Melbourne. And I think that what 123 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:34,320 Speaker 2: we're seeing is investors are a dwindling by a pool, 124 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:38,480 Speaker 2: but actually first home buyers are taking that advantage and 125 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:41,800 Speaker 2: we have seen first time buyers go back into Victoria 126 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:45,760 Speaker 2: and Melbourne's housing market, and I think competition is certainly 127 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:49,200 Speaker 2: less in Melbourne compared to some of the other capital cities. 128 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:52,640 Speaker 2: Supply overall in the sales market has been much better 129 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:56,400 Speaker 2: relative to other capital cities, still above that five year average, 130 00:06:56,839 --> 00:06:59,440 Speaker 2: and I think what that has provided is quite great 131 00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:03,280 Speaker 2: conditions first time buyers because prices are pretty much stagnated 132 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:05,040 Speaker 2: over the last couple of years. And I think it's 133 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:07,240 Speaker 2: really coming out in the lending data because we have 134 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 2: seen first time buyers increase, and if we're seeing rising 135 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:14,320 Speaker 2: first time buyers, logically that means that demand is easing 136 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:17,200 Speaker 2: on the rental side in Melbourne, and I think you know, 137 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 2: Melbourne is much cheaper overall anyway, when you look at 138 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:22,240 Speaker 2: purchasing and also renting. 139 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 1: Okay, so Adelaide, Brisabone and Perth, you can't really say 140 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:28,880 Speaker 1: they're outlies because there's three of them. But just like 141 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 1: in the ouction market, that the rental market, they're still 142 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:35,360 Speaker 1: pretty strong and I know they probably have peaked, but 143 00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 1: you're still getting some decent rental returns in. 144 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:41,200 Speaker 2: Those markets, and they are still very competitive, I think 145 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:44,080 Speaker 2: particularly Adelaide and Perth. You know, when you look at 146 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:47,679 Speaker 2: Adelaide point four is the vacancy ra Perth point five. 147 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 2: It's extraordinarily tight and competitive for tenants. But it does 148 00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:55,760 Speaker 2: appear that that rental boom is slowing. I think we've 149 00:07:55,760 --> 00:07:58,080 Speaker 2: definitely seen going you know, looping back to the conversation 150 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:01,000 Speaker 2: we're having earlier. We certainly have in greater levels of 151 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:04,640 Speaker 2: investor participation in the market like Perth, not enough to 152 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 2: really shift the dial on its vacancy rate, but the 153 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 2: vacancy rate is still increased. It's still increased from those 154 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:14,520 Speaker 2: extraordinarily low points of point two point three percent that 155 00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 2: we were seeing in those markets. And I actually think 156 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:21,000 Speaker 2: this is probably where those are that affordability ceiling. There's 157 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:24,640 Speaker 2: absolutely an affordability ceiling in the rental space, and that's 158 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:29,480 Speaker 2: where we see that affordability ceiling reshaping demand and where 159 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:33,640 Speaker 2: we see kind of people moving back home getting you 160 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 2: into a house share. And I think that affordability constraint 161 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:39,400 Speaker 2: is really playing out in some of these other markets too. 162 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 1: Okay, what about the regionals, Is there any sort of 163 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:45,400 Speaker 1: change in trend in the bigger regional places. 164 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:49,719 Speaker 2: Generally speaking, regionals have been a bit more subdued overall. 165 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:52,120 Speaker 2: You know, we saw that more kind of stagnant nature 166 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:54,439 Speaker 2: of the rental market. We'd seen the focus go back 167 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:57,560 Speaker 2: on our capital cities, not only in rents but also 168 00:08:57,600 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 2: in price growth also. And I think it's an intr 169 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:02,320 Speaker 2: one in the rental space, particularly where we've got a 170 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:05,280 Speaker 2: period now where businesses are mandating people return to the 171 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:09,720 Speaker 2: office and that reshapes where rental demand plays out. So 172 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:15,680 Speaker 2: generally speaking, it is certainly more subdued conditions in regional Australia, 173 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:18,679 Speaker 2: but I would say that those conditions have been subdued 174 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:21,360 Speaker 2: for a longer period of time. I think in our 175 00:09:21,400 --> 00:09:24,920 Speaker 2: capital cities that slow down has been more evident in 176 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:26,520 Speaker 2: more recent quarters. 177 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:31,720 Speaker 1: Okay, Nikola, just putting your crystal ball gazing hat, if 178 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:33,760 Speaker 1: there is such a thing, wizards hat, whatever it is, 179 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:36,559 Speaker 1: What's going to happen? Is this going to keep going, 180 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:39,600 Speaker 1: the slow down in rental growth? And could we end 181 00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:43,400 Speaker 1: up getting more cities like Melbourne where they're going backwards. 182 00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 2: So I do think that we are certainly seeing a 183 00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:50,240 Speaker 2: better outlook for tenants, and I think that what we 184 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:52,720 Speaker 2: are now on is a period of time where we 185 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:55,559 Speaker 2: are going to continue to see the rental space rebalance. 186 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:57,880 Speaker 2: I think we've got to remember though, that it is 187 00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:01,320 Speaker 2: very seasonal in the rental s. We normally see that 188 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:03,600 Speaker 2: first quarter of a calendar year is very strong in 189 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:06,400 Speaker 2: terms of rental growth. So what we're probably likely to 190 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:08,800 Speaker 2: see is a bit of a reacceleration of rental growth 191 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:11,840 Speaker 2: over the first quarter of next calendar year. But I 192 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:14,200 Speaker 2: think even then it's going to be slower compared to 193 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:17,720 Speaker 2: what we had been experiencing or recording. And one of 194 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:21,040 Speaker 2: the key metrics, and look, I love to have many 195 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:25,520 Speaker 2: different kind of pointers to help me gauge where a 196 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:28,200 Speaker 2: particular trend is going, but one of the key ones 197 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:30,240 Speaker 2: at the moment is when you look at the number 198 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:33,480 Speaker 2: of potential tenants per rental listing, it's now at the 199 00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:37,560 Speaker 2: lowest level we've seen since twenty nineteen. So that tells 200 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:40,480 Speaker 2: me that this rental boom is in the rear view 201 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:43,520 Speaker 2: and that we are going to continue to see conditions 202 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:45,480 Speaker 2: rebalance across Australia. 203 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:48,120 Speaker 1: Does that mean that we're going to I mean it 204 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:50,720 Speaker 1: is a political topic housing in Australia and we have 205 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:54,000 Speaker 1: an election by the end of May next year. Does 206 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:56,760 Speaker 1: this take some of the stem out of the debate. 207 00:10:56,800 --> 00:10:59,040 Speaker 1: And we're apolitical here, we're not saying it's good or bad, 208 00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:02,000 Speaker 1: but does it think it will take some steam out 209 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:02,520 Speaker 1: of the debate. 210 00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:06,320 Speaker 2: It's an interesting one because I think, you know, they're 211 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:09,640 Speaker 2: always continuously adding fuel to the fire. You know, when 212 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:12,920 Speaker 2: you think about the discussion around negative gearing and capital 213 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 2: gains tax, if we see changes in that space that 214 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:19,760 Speaker 2: will have a negative impact on our rental market. You know, 215 00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:23,880 Speaker 2: we've seen modeling that proves that it does increase home ownership, 216 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:28,120 Speaker 2: but it actually doesn't overall decrease pricing by much. You know, 217 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 2: you see homeownership increased by about four percent, you see 218 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:33,880 Speaker 2: pricing decreased by about one point five percent, but you 219 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:37,520 Speaker 2: see rents in turn increase by four percent. So I 220 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:41,760 Speaker 2: do wonder even the increased discussion around negative gearing could 221 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:46,680 Speaker 2: have an adverse impact on investor decisions, whether they purchase 222 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:48,920 Speaker 2: what they purchase, whether they go to the share market. 223 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:52,160 Speaker 2: So I do think that I don't know if it 224 00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:55,880 Speaker 2: alleviates tension. I think governments are very focused on supply. 225 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:59,440 Speaker 2: We know we have an undersupplied housing market overall, there 226 00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:02,680 Speaker 2: are many people in Australia that are under housed. But 227 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:05,439 Speaker 2: I do think that when we think about the changes 228 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:09,520 Speaker 2: in the rental space, we are seeing those changes because 229 00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:12,280 Speaker 2: investors are coming back in and most investors are mum 230 00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:16,760 Speaker 2: and dads with one rental property and built to rent. 231 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:18,760 Speaker 2: I don't think it's shifted dull enough. It's still very 232 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:22,600 Speaker 2: much in its infancy in Australia. So who knows. You know, 233 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:25,920 Speaker 2: the political space and housing is a very interesting one. 234 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:27,839 Speaker 1: Sure is, Nikola, thank you for talking to Fear and Greed. 235 00:12:28,360 --> 00:12:28,920 Speaker 2: Thank you. 236 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:33,080 Speaker 1: That is doctor Nikola Powell, Domain's chief of Research and Economics. 237 00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:35,680 Speaker 1: This is the Fear and Greed Daily Interview. Join us 238 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:37,760 Speaker 1: every morning for the full episode of Fear and Greed 239 00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:40,400 Speaker 1: daily business news for people who make their own decisions. 240 00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 1: I'm chanelma Enjoy your day.