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Speaker 1: I get a groovers welcome to another installing the shots

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Speaker 1: so you project of course, Tracy Lee Connor from the

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Speaker 1: other side. Well, it depends where you're at, doesn't it.

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Speaker 1: From where I am the other side of the country,

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Speaker 1: on the western side. I'm on the eastern side of Australia. Hi, Trace,

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Speaker 1: how are you? Hey?

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Speaker 2: You going, Craig. I'm awesome.

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Speaker 1: Oh, you are always good. You know, you're one of

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Speaker 1: those people. I mean, we've met quite a few times

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Speaker 1: and you are you are among other things, like you're

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Speaker 1: a superstar in your own right. But you've been a

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Speaker 1: follower and a listener and an attendee to my stuff

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Speaker 1: for how long, like a long time, right, I'd.

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Speaker 2: Say four or five years, And it just what I'd

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Speaker 2: do is just gather my toolbox. I've got a toolbox.

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Speaker 2: Between you and my psychologist, I have, you know, check

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Speaker 2: everything in the toolbox. And that's where it is.

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Speaker 1: Why I know it's definitely more than four or five years,

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Speaker 1: because COVID was four four and a half years ago,

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Speaker 1: and it was way before that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it must have been seventeen or eighteen then, or

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Speaker 2: maybe eighteen.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's a good six anyway. Anyway, among other things.

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Speaker 1: You've written a book called Chemo Brain, which we're not

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Speaker 1: going to revisit today other than just to mention it

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Speaker 1: because that we've chatted quite a bit about this. But give,

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Speaker 1: just give people before we talk about psychopaths in romantic relationships,

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Speaker 1: which is what we're covering off today, just give people

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Speaker 1: a quick the one minute overview because a lot of

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Speaker 1: people listening to this won't have met you in inverted commas,

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Speaker 1: so give them the snapshot of the one minute synthesis,

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Speaker 1: the one minute snapshot synopsis of your your Chemo Brain

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Speaker 1: book and journey.

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Speaker 2: So twenty eleven, I had breast cancer and so I

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Speaker 2: was given massive doses of chemotherapy and all of a sudden,

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Speaker 2: I thought I could just go back to work, And

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Speaker 2: all of a sudden went back to work and nothing

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Speaker 2: made sense. So long story short. Over time, I thought

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Speaker 2: it would get better, as everybody told me I would,

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Speaker 2: but I actually got worse. And through my beautiful community online,

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Speaker 2: I found some amazing people that helped me determine that

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Speaker 2: I had long term chemo brain. So I couldn't go

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Speaker 2: back to work. I had to try and find a

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Speaker 2: way to live, had to get some insurance, so I

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Speaker 2: did the David and glything and was quite successful, and

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Speaker 2: then I wrote a book about it. But mainly when

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Speaker 2: I started writing books that seemed to be about chemo bran,

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Speaker 2: it was actually more about my personal story because people

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Speaker 2: like Ian Gawler agreed with me that there was something

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Speaker 2: more to do cancer than just you know, random bad luck.

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Speaker 2: It was a lot of it was trauma induced, and

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Speaker 2: it kind of segues into what we're talking about today

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Speaker 2: because I had been in a narcissistic relationship and the

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Speaker 2: trauma of that I believe most definitely brought on my

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Speaker 2: breast cancer.

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Speaker 1: Wow, so you wow, Okay, okay, just quickly before we

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Speaker 1: move on, when did you first hear the term? Not

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Speaker 1: that I trust your judgment now with dates, because you've

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Speaker 1: already proven in two minutes your shit with recall and

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Speaker 1: shit with dates. When did you first hear the term

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Speaker 1: chemo brain? When did you hear that? What year? For

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Speaker 1: the first time?

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Speaker 2: Two thousand and thirteen.

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Speaker 1: Right, so that's eleven years ago. And back then it

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Speaker 1: wasn't really I mean, it was more like just a

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Speaker 1: colloquial term than anything that was held in any kind

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Speaker 1: of medical regard, right exactly.

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Speaker 2: It was like baby brain, and that would get it

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Speaker 2: would get discarded and laughed off in the same sense,

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Speaker 2: Oh you've got baby brow here, You'll get over it.

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Speaker 2: That's all the doctors said. But now they caught that.

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Speaker 2: My doctor rash Asher from the Cedar Sinai Hospital, the

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Speaker 2: medical director for cancer Survivorship, says that we need to

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Speaker 2: call it cancer related cognitive impairment because it's not always

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Speaker 2: from the chemo. It can often be from the cancer.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, wow, And so I'm writing that cancer related

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Speaker 1: cognitive impairment CRCI. Yeah. I probably shouldn't write that down

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Speaker 1: in the middle of an interview, but fuck it, I

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Speaker 1: want to remember that term, so I wrote it down.

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Speaker 3: So do you you think that because you you've been

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Speaker 3: like I know you were in one significant toxic, destructive

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Speaker 3: relationship with.

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Speaker 1: Psychopath? Is that just have you had multiple relationships like that? Like,

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Speaker 1: do you think you've been you've had relationships more than

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Speaker 1: one psychopath? One is enough, by the way.

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Speaker 2: One is enough. But the reason I'm talking to you

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Speaker 2: today one was I didn't even know what a narcissist was.

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Speaker 2: I had never heard the term. I didn't understand what

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Speaker 2: it was. I was in this crazy toxic destructive relationship.

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Speaker 2: But knowing me being the researcher that I am, I

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Speaker 2: had to find an answer. I just went, what is

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Speaker 2: going on with this? One of us is crazy? And

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Speaker 2: so I you know, when I finally got out of

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Speaker 2: that relationship, of which I'm kind of grateful I had it,

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Speaker 2: because it was the first thing that really determined how

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Speaker 2: much I did not love myself, because I allowed people

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Speaker 2: to really fuck with my head in a way that

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Speaker 2: nearly a nearly killed me with cancer, and be what

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Speaker 2: that didn't happen on early committed side of it. So

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Speaker 2: it was really, you know, like how must you not

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Speaker 2: love yourself? And so then started a fifteen year journey

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Speaker 2: with my wonderful counselor to then get to the point

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Speaker 2: where I'm madly in love with myself and I don't

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Speaker 2: care about anybody else. I'm so happy.

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Speaker 1: That's not true. You care about other people, just my family.

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Speaker 2: I do, but I don't yearn for that. I don't

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Speaker 2: have that yearning for a significant other to talk to

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Speaker 2: validate me and make me feel like anything. You know,

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Speaker 2: It's like, unfortunately, it's when women feel that way that

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Speaker 2: they just feel, Oh, if I only met the right person,

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Speaker 2: that could see me as I am, and then they're

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Speaker 2: so open to be manipulated when they meet these people

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Speaker 2: because they're quite under the radar. So the first the

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Speaker 2: relationship I had was with a narcissist that we its

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Speaker 2: just not really all that calculating. I probably didn't even

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Speaker 2: realize it was a narcissist. But the ones that I

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Speaker 2: had after that, I had one very short one that

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Speaker 2: I recognized it for what it was very quickly because

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Speaker 2: of my experience, and that was the covert narcissist, which

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Speaker 2: we're going to cover today. And since then, I've also

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Speaker 2: mainly people around me, people I care about, people I've

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Speaker 2: been significantly in their lives, are being caught up with

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Speaker 2: the covert narcissist. And for the fact that I speak

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Speaker 2: fluent narcissist, I don't stay long in their lives when

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Speaker 2: they meet one of these guys, because they take one

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Speaker 2: look at me opening my mouth for five minutes and go,

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Speaker 2: oh my god, she's going to out me and I

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Speaker 2: need to get rid of her out of this person's life,

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Speaker 2: which they do very quickly.

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Speaker 1: Wow Wow, all right, So what I mean, I don't

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Speaker 1: know how this is going to work because, as with

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Speaker 1: every podcast, I just make shit up as I go.

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Speaker 1: So what I'm going to do, I'm going to I'm

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Speaker 1: going to read some of what you sent me today.

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Speaker 1: And we don't normally like I get lots and lots

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Speaker 1: of emails, I get emails and messages, and you, by

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Speaker 1: the way, we know who you are, and you're credible

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Speaker 1: and you're not just some weirdo saying I want to

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Speaker 1: be on the show. But I got your message today

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Speaker 1: and I went, that is actually really worth chatting about.

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Speaker 1: And so it's been a very quick turnaround because I

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Speaker 1: got your email this morning and you said, at some

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Speaker 1: stage can I chat about this? I read it and

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Speaker 1: I went, yeah, that's actually I think it's really helpful

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Speaker 1: potentially for a lot of people. For me, I'm reasonably

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Speaker 1: familiar with sociopaths and psychopaths narcissist because of my own

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Speaker 1: experiences and my research and my work and all of that.

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Speaker 1: But I think I think a lot of people think

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Speaker 1: that a psychopath is an axe wielding murderer, yes, when

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Speaker 1: sometimes they're actually socially skilled, charming, good looking, high iq smooth,

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Speaker 1: outwardly kind fucking warm, caring. But we kind of find

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Speaker 1: out that although the last three things anyway, are basically

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Speaker 1: a show. So I'm going to read some of this

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Speaker 1: and then I'm going to hit the pause button then

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Speaker 1: get you to unpack various bits. So Psychopaths in Romantic

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Speaker 1: Relationships was the heading with a state of domestic violence.

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Speaker 1: I don't think there are enough conversations highlighting this type

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Speaker 1: of relationship and the playbook and red flags that are there.

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Speaker 1: All right, let's start with that. What's a red flag

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Speaker 1: if somebody, I'm sure our audience is a little bit

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Speaker 1: educated because of David Gillespie, of whom you're a fan,

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Speaker 1: I understand, oh, total fan.

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Speaker 2: And the other thing you know, and like he talks

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Speaker 2: about do not do not engage with the junkyard dog,

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Speaker 2: and he's right, do not engage. But the covert narcissist

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Speaker 2: that I'm talking about isn't the junkyard dog, and isn't

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Speaker 2: even the good looking junkyard dog. He's a wolf. He's

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Speaker 2: a wolf in sheep's clothing. He lives his life in

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Speaker 2: a way that other people and he's usually got a

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Speaker 2: hard lock, sad story. Something dreadful happened to him in

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Speaker 2: one of the covert narcissists that I had in my

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Speaker 2: life this was true. It was devastating that he did

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Speaker 2: lose his daughter in a car accident. It was a

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Speaker 2: very sad thing. But he played that really well so

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Speaker 2: that when you feel so deeply sorry for somebody, you

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Speaker 2: do ignore some of the flags that do come up

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Speaker 2: because oh, God has been through so much. So and

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Speaker 2: there's a playbook, So there's usually a sad story there is.

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Speaker 2: Then there becomes something to hook you in, which is

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Speaker 2: usually the sad story. Or they're very humble, They sit

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Speaker 2: back and they don't say much, and they look like

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Speaker 2: they're the quiet person. They really don't say, but they

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Speaker 2: don't say. But the reasons they don't say too much

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Speaker 2: is they do want to hide who they are, and

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Speaker 2: the less they say, the more people can just assume

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Speaker 2: that they're great people because they don't want to give up.

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Speaker 2: You know, they're not really. I think COVIDT narcissists aren't

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Speaker 2: as genuinely really really smart as the normal high level,

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Speaker 2: grandiose type of narcissist. So then what they do is

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Speaker 2: that they come across say what I call a target.

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Speaker 2: It would be a person and it's usually a woman

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Speaker 2: who's nearly always in any narcissistic relationship, there has to

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Speaker 2: be an EmPATH because the covert narcissist is in pain

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Speaker 2: because of whatever sad thing happened to him. The EmPATH

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Speaker 2: will just tune into that and go, oh, I can

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Speaker 2: fix you, I can make you happy, and then some

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Speaker 2: like that begins. And then what happens is it's always

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Speaker 2: these long drawn out conversations over hours, days, weeks, and

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Speaker 2: you go and the first thing that the person says

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Speaker 2: when they meet these guys, oh my god, he listened

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Speaker 2: to me. We talked for hours and days and weeks.

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Speaker 2: But what they don't realize is that covert nasis is

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Speaker 2: just garnishing information data, what makes you tick, what makes you,

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Speaker 2: where your buttons to suppress are, what your insecurities are,

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Speaker 2: and he gathers all this while you're thinking he's madly

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Speaker 2: in love with you. It will generally move very fast,

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Speaker 2: this type of relationship, and it'll generally involve the words

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Speaker 2: like soul mate, never met anybody like you before, wish

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Speaker 2: I'd met you forty years ago, I had.

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Speaker 1: This level of never had this level of connection.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, And then where you where it comes into

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Speaker 2: your field, Craig, is that we all know that when

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Speaker 2: people fall in love, things change literally physiologically change in

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Speaker 2: your brain, so you know, your decision making process and

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Speaker 2: all sorts of things, even in a healthy in love relationship,

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Speaker 2: are impaired to some degree. And then sometimes when all

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Speaker 2: that settles down, the relationship, you know, sometimes doesn't work,

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Speaker 2: and you know that's just a healthy in love relationship.

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Speaker 2: But with a covert narcissist, he love bombs very fast,

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Speaker 2: very quick. He does things like, you know, pulls the

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Speaker 2: car up, puts the air conditioner on ten minutes before

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Speaker 2: we're going to get in the car, and he does

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Speaker 2: things that no one has ever done for you. And

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Speaker 2: then your brain then you know, you still take a

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Speaker 2: bit of time, but then all of a sudden you

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Speaker 2: let yourself go. You fall madly, deeply in love with

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Speaker 2: this person, and he keeps going until it's like a

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Speaker 2: big fat fish on a hook and you it's.

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Speaker 1: Kind of it's kind of like grooming righting. It's like

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Speaker 1: to me, I'm thinking, as you were saying all this,

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Speaker 1: if we were going to put it in a military context,

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Speaker 1: it's like doing intel on the target. It's like it's

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Speaker 1: like getting intel on the enemy, so you know their weaknesses,

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Speaker 1: you know how you can exploit them, you know, how

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Speaker 1: you can take control and win. I mean, it's it's

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Speaker 1: very do you think do you think that they are

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Speaker 1: like this is just how and I'm sure it's different.

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Speaker 1: And by the way, everyone, this is not two experts

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Speaker 1: talking about this. This is just a conversation me having

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Speaker 1: a conversation with somebody who had a pretty bad relationship

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Speaker 1: with psychopath. But do you your experience and insight, and

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Speaker 1: you've chatted with lots of women who have been in

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Speaker 1: similar relationships, do you think they set out to be

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Speaker 1: that strategic from day one or that's just how they are.

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Speaker 1: They are just their default setting is manipulation, controls, self serving,

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Speaker 1: you know, like psychopathic, narcissistic.

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Speaker 2: But that's a really good question. This is what I think.

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Speaker 2: And like you said, we're no two experts. But the

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Speaker 2: way a narcissist is formed is usually something pretty drastic

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Speaker 2: happened to them between the ones I know, the ones

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Speaker 2: I've met, and the ones I've been involved with. Something

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Speaker 2: you know, usually my mom died at two, or you know,

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Speaker 2: even my mom died at nine, or something really dramatic

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Speaker 2: happened to these people in early childhood, which makes it

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Speaker 2: so painful that their personality splits. And that's what a

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Speaker 2: narcissist is. It's a person their personality split. And then

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Speaker 2: the one that's the one that they roll on with

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Speaker 2: is the one that doesn't feel anything, has no empathy,

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Speaker 2: feels no pain. But like we all know that the

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Speaker 2: will of survival is one of all of our strongest

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Speaker 2: desires that we have to protect, the will to survive.

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Speaker 2: So then you, for a narcissist, his survival is is

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Speaker 2: garnering that narcissistic energy. You know, he has to maintain

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Speaker 2: that energy. He hates himself, he's he's he's in pain,

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Speaker 2: and the only thing that makes him feel better is

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Speaker 2: when he's being adored, until the point once he's not

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Speaker 2: being adored. It's even if he's hated, as long as

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Speaker 2: he's getting something's energy, some sort of energy off the target.

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Speaker 2: And I guess what I don't know and understand is

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Speaker 2: the playbook is identical. I know ten different narcissists and

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Speaker 2: the playbook was the same, And I don't know why.

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Speaker 2: And you know what it is is that yes, first

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Speaker 2: of all, they love Bob, and then they put you

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Speaker 2: up on a pedestal and then they resent you being

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Speaker 2: on the pedestal because they start looking at things while

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Speaker 2: you shouldn't be up on that pedestal, and they then

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Speaker 2: start pulling you apart. And what happens that I knew

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Speaker 2: with the narcissist is that there was a normal person

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Speaker 2: understands win, win, and I think the win. We go

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Speaker 2: into a scenario. We always want to come out win, win,

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Speaker 2: whereas a narcissist will never see that. He will see

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Speaker 2: if you're winning, he's losing. So if everyone's paying you

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Speaker 2: attention because it's your birthday, then he will be very

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Speaker 2: angry at you because it means that he's losing. Your winning,

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Speaker 2: he's losing. If it's Christmas time and everyone's having a

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Speaker 2: great day, you're winning. He's losing. He will ruin Christmas Day,

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Speaker 2: which they never know.

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Speaker 1: Do you know, off the top of your head? What

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Speaker 1: of psychopaths? This is terrible, but fuck it, this is

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Speaker 1: how we roll. What percentage of psychopaths are women. I'm

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Speaker 1: just checking this out. I'm seeing what chat GP.

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Speaker 2: It's interesting that they're there, but not as much.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we're bogged. Yeah, because I've googled. Yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: that I think we need to be of course, I

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Speaker 1: think the majority of psychopaths are men, and but I

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Speaker 1: think we also need to point out that the women

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Speaker 1: won't open any doors. But I've had some interesting experience

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Speaker 1: over the years, and I can tell you it ain't

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Speaker 1: all dudes, oh dudes. And yes, I agree, most men

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Speaker 1: are not most men. Most psychopaths the greater percentage. I

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Speaker 1: think it's something like seventy thirty. I think it's something

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Speaker 1: like that.

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Speaker 2: But the women may be there. We don't know that.

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Speaker 1: So when you say covert cycle, is that an actual

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Speaker 1: term or did you make that up?

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Speaker 2: There's an actual term. If you research it, they will

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Speaker 2: turn around and they'll give you. You know, if you

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Speaker 2: put in covert narcissist, they'll tell you that's a different

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Speaker 2: kettle of fish. It's a different it's a different narcissist.

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Speaker 2: And they act differently. And the reason they act differently

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Speaker 2: is they they're they're in this, they're in the community.

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Speaker 2: They're quite The ones I've known are in small towns.

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Speaker 2: They're doing something for the you know, the Return Services

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Speaker 2: League or some you know, some organization where everyone in

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Speaker 2: town says they're such a great guy and they do

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Speaker 2: so much for everybody. And and oh, I've known him

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Speaker 2: all my life, and it's like, yeah, but he's been

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Speaker 2: married three times and he's got and he's estranged from

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Speaker 2: all different relationships. How do you explain that none of

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Speaker 2: his kids speak to him? How do you how do

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Speaker 2: you know? How do you explain that? So with them,

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Speaker 2: going back to the playbook, it's the love bombing. Then

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Speaker 2: once you're hooked, then they start these and it's honestly,

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Speaker 2: when you hear gaslighting. A lot of people have heard

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Speaker 2: the term, but I don't think they really understand. I

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Speaker 2: got gas lit, not by a person I was in

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Speaker 2: a relationship, but this is how I got tossed out

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Speaker 2: of that person's life without actually having any sort of

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Speaker 2: argument with the person that I was close to or

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Speaker 2: the person that her new boyfriend. It was actually something

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Speaker 2: to do. I had a little bit of a few

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Speaker 2: words with his mate over a wine debate, and all

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Speaker 2: of a sudden, out of nowhere, the boyfriend kept going upstairs.

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Speaker 2: You know, seven point thirty never said another word to

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Speaker 2: me after that sort of chiff I had with his mate,

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Speaker 2: And I haven't heard from this person since February that

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Speaker 2: would call me three times a week. So what would

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Speaker 2: have happened there is that I'd said a few things.

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Speaker 2: I accidentally didn't realize who, you know, the whole situation,

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Speaker 2: and I sort of might have outed him a little bit,

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Speaker 2: so I had to had to be gotten rid of.

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Speaker 2: But it's just that, you know, they they've got to survive.

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Speaker 2: So all of a sudden he knew that, all of

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Speaker 2: a sudden it was dangerous to have me involved, so

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Speaker 2: he found a way. And he would have turned around

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Speaker 2: to this person who was madly in love with him

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Speaker 2: and said, well, look, you know, I'm not ever going

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Speaker 2: to speak to this person again. I think that they're

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Speaker 2: a heap of shit or something like that. But it's

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Speaker 2: fine me that you know, you can be friends with them,

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Speaker 2: but it's either them or me. And you know, when

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Speaker 2: somebody is that crazily in love with you, of course,

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Speaker 2: and when the people that I've talked to, I mean,

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Speaker 2: this has happened, if their sisters, their brothers, their fathers

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Speaker 2: and mothers. You know, once you're in a relationship with

356
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Speaker 2: a narcissist, he can't afford to have anybody that's going

357
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Speaker 2: to support her and take her side against him. But

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Speaker 2: what he will choose, he'll find somebody in a trying

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Speaker 2: what they call it triangulation. He'll he'll find somebody that's

360
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Speaker 2: not an enemy or whatever, it's somebody that they both know.

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Speaker 2: But then he'll go, look, I think you're going crazy,

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Speaker 2: and I talked to Joe Blow and he agrees with me.

363
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Speaker 2: You know, they use a third person to substantiate their

364
00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:23,280
Speaker 2: bullshit and it's probably not even true. I mean, he

365
00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:26,520
Speaker 2: probably Joe Blo probably said a word, but he'll utilize that.

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Speaker 2: Or or they'll turn around and get somebody close to you,

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Speaker 2: you know, your mum, your dad. They'll charm them and

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Speaker 2: they'll go, look, I have to talk to your dad,

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Speaker 2: and you know he's thinking the same as me, you're

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Speaker 2: not really quite right in the head. And the reason

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Speaker 2: why that happens is because all this craziness and an

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Speaker 2: argument with a narcissist is traumatic, because he'll say, for instance,

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Speaker 2: he got late home, being laid home for a week

374
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Speaker 2: smells a perfume, And then you start an argument with

375
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Speaker 2: him and he'll turn around go, I know you're playing

376
00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:03,840
Speaker 2: up on me, you know, I know, why are you

377
00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:07,119
Speaker 2: trying to sabotage this relationship? And it'll turn into a

378
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Speaker 2: big argument where you're the only person that's doing anything

379
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Speaker 2: wrong and I mean, if you just that ramps up,

380
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Speaker 2: and it ramps up over years. And like I said

381
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Speaker 2: in my letter, I read and I agree that sometimes

382
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:23,880
Speaker 2: it takes seven times to leave that relationship because they

383
00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:27,400
Speaker 2: tear you apart to the point where you cannot make

384
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:30,359
Speaker 2: a decision that you trust and you just don't know

385
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Speaker 2: which ways up. If you don't know anything about narcissist,

386
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Speaker 2: if this is a normal person in a normal relationship,

387
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Speaker 2: you honestly think that you are going crazy. And one

388
00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:42,760
Speaker 2: of my sister in law rang me one day and

389
00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:44,399
Speaker 2: she said, look, I think I need to go and

390
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Speaker 2: get tested because I'm going crazy. You know, at work,

391
00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:51,119
Speaker 2: I put the stapler down and I turn around and go, well,

392
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Speaker 2: where's the statement that it's absolutely gone? And things like that.

393
00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:57,879
Speaker 2: But it turns out the partner that was exiting the

394
00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:01,360
Speaker 2: relationship was doing all this so that she would think

395
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Speaker 2: that she was crazy, so when they got to the

396
00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:09,240
Speaker 2: divorce courts, he could wrong foot her. And turns out,

397
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:12,520
Speaker 2: you know, her daughter and her son in law were

398
00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:15,280
Speaker 2: top flight lawyers in Sydney. Wrong person to try and

399
00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:19,400
Speaker 2: scrow over and it didn't work, but that's what they do.

400
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:24,520
Speaker 2: They will and with me, I didn't even know what

401
00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:27,000
Speaker 2: was happening to me. But I was in this high

402
00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:31,919
Speaker 2: stay of trauma. And you've talked about it too, you know, cortisol,

403
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:38,080
Speaker 2: adrenaline just going through your system. And you know the

404
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:40,720
Speaker 2: last time I had a big you know, it was

405
00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:43,040
Speaker 2: an argument over he was mean to my child. He

406
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:45,480
Speaker 2: got my sick child out of bed and was abusive

407
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:47,720
Speaker 2: to him, and we ended up in such a fight

408
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:50,919
Speaker 2: that he took a swing at me and hit me

409
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:54,639
Speaker 2: in the chest, pushed me in the chest, and we

410
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:56,680
Speaker 2: were going to Bali the next day. See, they tend

411
00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:59,119
Speaker 2: to do these things around times when they can get

412
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:01,600
Speaker 2: away with them. But as it turned out, that push

413
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:05,080
Speaker 2: in the chest could have been a savior because I

414
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:06,960
Speaker 2: ended up having a lump of fluid that turned out

415
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:10,640
Speaker 2: to me my breast cancer. But had that not happened,

416
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:14,000
Speaker 2: who knows? Did he cause it? Did he? Did he

417
00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:15,280
Speaker 2: locate it? I don't know?

418
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:20,760
Speaker 1: Okay. So what I want to know is how how

419
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:26,760
Speaker 1: long were you in this relationship with with I was

420
00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 1: going to say your psychopath. I'm just going to go

421
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:30,840
Speaker 1: with that, with your psychopath.

422
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:33,280
Speaker 2: Four and a half years, okay.

423
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:37,480
Speaker 1: And when did you going in did you have any

424
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:43,320
Speaker 1: understanding of sociopthy psychopathy. Did you did you have any

425
00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:46,280
Speaker 1: idea and when did you first think and when did

426
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:49,719
Speaker 1: you first start to get some insight and understanding.

427
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:53,120
Speaker 2: Not until after I left the relationship.

428
00:25:53,640 --> 00:26:00,360
Speaker 1: Oh really, wow? And so what was happening? So tell

429
00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:02,760
Speaker 1: us as much as you can that you know that

430
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:05,919
Speaker 1: you're comfortable to share with us about those four and

431
00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:07,000
Speaker 1: a half years.

432
00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:10,920
Speaker 2: Well, I think I was that person that I said,

433
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:14,080
Speaker 2: you know, like I was a single mum. I had,

434
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:17,080
Speaker 2: you know, not much of an opportunity to I've been

435
00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:22,240
Speaker 2: single for eight years, my kids were getting older. I

436
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:24,879
Speaker 2: really loved the idea of being in a relationship. I

437
00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 2: was really lonely, and I you know, like I clapped

438
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:35,280
Speaker 2: eyes on this guy and he was very good looking,

439
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:40,479
Speaker 2: and and I think I pushed that relationship. I mean

440
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:42,600
Speaker 2: if I had, if I had been a different person,

441
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,800
Speaker 2: with a bit more you know, self awareness, I don't

442
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:48,960
Speaker 2: think I would have gone there. But I you know,

443
00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:53,919
Speaker 2: I was desperate, I was needy, and he was you know,

444
00:26:54,280 --> 00:27:00,639
Speaker 2: he just played that, you know a little bit. And

445
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:04,720
Speaker 2: and then I made decisions that I should never you know,

446
00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:08,280
Speaker 2: about my kids, and you know, like he just manipulated

447
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:12,000
Speaker 2: situations and you just become a I think it's the

448
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:15,199
Speaker 2: same thing as a drug addiction. I really do think that.

449
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:18,920
Speaker 2: I think if you looked at the physiology.

450
00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:23,360
Speaker 1: Oh for sure, we know that people people get addicted

451
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:26,960
Speaker 1: to people like yeah, because you know, you think about this.

452
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:29,360
Speaker 1: If you're around somebody and all of a sudden, you're

453
00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:32,680
Speaker 1: around that person and because you're near them, you're producing

454
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:36,840
Speaker 1: dopamine and serotonin and oxytocin and all that shit, Well,

455
00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:41,080
Speaker 1: that's I mean, that's biochemical reaction, right, that's that's your

456
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:43,520
Speaker 1: brain lighting up like a Christmas tree. And when you're

457
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:46,160
Speaker 1: not with that person it doesn't happen. Then when you're

458
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:49,800
Speaker 1: with them it happens. Yeah, one hundred percent. You're right.

459
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:53,160
Speaker 1: It's it can be a physical addiction.

460
00:27:54,560 --> 00:28:00,160
Speaker 2: It was and and like I left him and and

461
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:02,600
Speaker 2: you know, my kids were just begging me to leave,

462
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:06,919
Speaker 2: and I did leave him, and I couldn't function. I

463
00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:11,159
Speaker 2: was really ill. It was like I had withdrawals. I

464
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 2: couldn't stop thinking about anything to you know, I had anxiety,

465
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:20,199
Speaker 2: I had all the things that you would expect of

466
00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:21,639
Speaker 2: withdrawing from a drug.

467
00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:26,200
Speaker 1: Wow, that is amazing. And so did you go back?

468
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 2: I did? I did go back, and my kids. I

469
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:35,719
Speaker 2: lost my kids over it. One kid went in one direction,

470
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:44,480
Speaker 2: one and the other and I just yeah, I just thought.

471
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:47,280
Speaker 2: And when I went back, it was like probably a

472
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:52,960
Speaker 2: junkie jumping into a whole pile of heroin. I was

473
00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:57,000
Speaker 2: just like, oh my god, I've got it back, you know.

474
00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:00,440
Speaker 2: And I mean this guy had me down on the

475
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 2: ground with his hands around my throat at one stage,

476
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 2: and there was just no way up. I didn't know

477
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 2: which way I was up. I was desperately addicted in

478
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:20,640
Speaker 2: a drug, a drugged fuelled scenario. Just to add on

479
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:24,480
Speaker 2: to that, I drive past that guy's house. He lives

480
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 2: about three doors down from my daughter. I see him

481
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 2: three or four times a week. He sometimes stops and

482
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:34,520
Speaker 2: chats to me. There is no addiction going on. There

483
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:39,160
Speaker 2: not a feeling, not an ounce of feeling or desire to.

484
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 2: There's not even any intense feeling of dislike it's just

485
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:46,880
Speaker 2: a black line.

486
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:50,520
Speaker 1: It's such an interesting analogy because it is like, you know,

487
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 1: some people who use or who are addicted to, whether

488
00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:58,320
Speaker 1: it's gambling, or whether it's drugs, or whether it's booze

489
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 1: or whether it's you know, there's a bunch things, but

490
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:04,080
Speaker 1: eventually they get to the point where their life is

491
00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:10,040
Speaker 1: good without that, which is, you know, thankfully. How long

492
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:13,240
Speaker 1: do you think it, like, did you leave him, go

493
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:15,800
Speaker 1: back to him, and then leave him and go back

494
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 1: again or was it just the once.

495
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:23,640
Speaker 2: I left and went back and then and then after

496
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:26,320
Speaker 2: you know, when I when he took a big swing

497
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:29,040
Speaker 2: at me, if I hadn't have moved my face back,

498
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 2: I moved sort of stepped back, and it was in

499
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:34,520
Speaker 2: front of my two kids, and his knuckles grazed my

500
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:36,720
Speaker 2: face and I think he would have probably killed me

501
00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 2: had I not avoided that, because he's a big, bricky

502
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:46,480
Speaker 2: and bricklayer, that's four and he you know, if he

503
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 2: had connected, I would have been seriously injured.

504
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:54,160
Speaker 1: So you never went to the police. She never did anything.

505
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:57,760
Speaker 2: Yes, saying yeah. I then went to the violence court

506
00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:05,120
Speaker 2: and I was about to take out violence restraining order

507
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:12,480
Speaker 2: and also having charged with assault. They appointed me a

508
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 2: counselor in the violence court and then local Women's Health.

509
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:25,200
Speaker 2: He talked me out of putting charges on him, but

510
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:29,760
Speaker 2: I commenced with my counselor, who I have today fifteen

511
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:34,840
Speaker 2: years We started and it was such We started at

512
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 2: a point where I was completely physically, morally, everything bankrupt.

513
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:43,840
Speaker 2: And then I went to see her the other day

514
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:48,959
Speaker 2: and she cried because oh wow, it's just the contrast

515
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:54,040
Speaker 2: of building a human being to the ultimate, you know,

516
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:57,840
Speaker 2: your best version of yourself. And so with all the

517
00:31:57,880 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 2: work you talk about that you talk about, you've got

518
00:31:59,880 --> 00:32:00,680
Speaker 2: to do the work.

519
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:06,520
Speaker 1: I did the work, do you I don't. Firstly, everything

520
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:09,800
Speaker 1: that happened to you was terrible. Shouldn't have happened. Nobody

521
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:14,040
Speaker 1: should do that to you. No, do you do you

522
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:20,440
Speaker 1: ever think I'm a No, I'm trying to question. I'm

523
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 1: trying to ask frame this carefully because I don't want

524
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:25,440
Speaker 1: people to misinterpret what I'm saying. But do you ever

525
00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:27,280
Speaker 1: think what part did I play?

526
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:28,840
Speaker 2: Why?

527
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:31,320
Speaker 1: And No, you didn't deserve it, and of course you

528
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:33,520
Speaker 1: shouldn't have done it, and it's not your fault. That's

529
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:37,080
Speaker 1: not what I'm saying, But I would I would think, fuck,

530
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:41,160
Speaker 1: how did I not see this? How did I you know?

531
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 1: Do you ever think about that? And what advice would

532
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:46,440
Speaker 1: you give yourself if you could go back?

533
00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:51,440
Speaker 2: I think about that all the time. I've actually put

534
00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:54,800
Speaker 2: it in my book Craig that it was one of

535
00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:58,280
Speaker 2: the most important things that ever happened to me. Because

536
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:03,280
Speaker 2: it did. It highlighted that I do not have a

537
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:10,320
Speaker 2: caring and loving relationship with myself. That I put another

538
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:14,000
Speaker 2: human being in front of me and my children, and

539
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:17,760
Speaker 2: there's something very wrong. There was something I knew that

540
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:20,760
Speaker 2: there was stuff wrong. I mean, I had a dodger childhood.

541
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:23,560
Speaker 2: There was all sorts of things involved in that, and

542
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:27,120
Speaker 2: there were reasons why I was a bit needy. But

543
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 2: what was great is not great. But what was the

544
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:34,960
Speaker 2: most important thing to come out of that is it

545
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:38,240
Speaker 2: was a realization and self awareness of all the things

546
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:42,160
Speaker 2: I played to put myself in that position. Every decision

547
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 2: I made with that position I had to own and

548
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:48,840
Speaker 2: I had to you know, I had to be aware

549
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:52,680
Speaker 2: of it. I had to teach my children that I

550
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:57,920
Speaker 2: did this and apologize to them. And you know, go

551
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:00,240
Speaker 2: on to the premise that when you know better, you

552
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:05,640
Speaker 2: do better. So I've spent fifteen years learning how to

553
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:08,480
Speaker 2: be better and do better, and I am better.

554
00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:14,000
Speaker 1: Wow. A couple of quick questions. So you and your

555
00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:15,720
Speaker 1: kids are good now, I hope.

556
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:18,279
Speaker 2: Oh that's what I went to see Jill about. And

557
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:23,160
Speaker 2: I just said, Sarah called me mama the other day.

558
00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:24,879
Speaker 2: You know, I was doing. She's got a new little

559
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:28,279
Speaker 2: baby and she only lives close to me, and she said,

560
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:31,360
Speaker 2: oh thanks mama, and just that little thing. You know,

561
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:33,480
Speaker 2: it's just taken a lot of years for that to happen.

562
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:36,279
Speaker 2: And and Mitch, you know, you know the dude with

563
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:38,879
Speaker 2: the West Coast Eagles top. He used to always tell them.

564
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:40,719
Speaker 1: I've met MITCHI came to a camp. Yep.

565
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:44,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, So Mitchell's in an amazing place. He's in a

566
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:47,040
Speaker 2: growth period and he's gone through a bit, but he's

567
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:51,799
Speaker 2: like comes in and has those deep, meaningful conversations. And

568
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:54,840
Speaker 2: both my ca and I've like both my kids really

569
00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:59,360
Speaker 2: disrespected me a little bit, think that I was just hopeless.

570
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:02,520
Speaker 2: But I've just taken all my super and built like

571
00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:06,319
Speaker 2: what I call Hotel TLC on my property here. It's

572
00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:08,200
Speaker 2: seven hundred and twenty eight square met is. So I've

573
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:10,640
Speaker 2: built in a granny flat. I've got a studio apartment,

574
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:14,360
Speaker 2: and I got an Airbnb and it's called Hotel TLC.

575
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:17,399
Speaker 2: And my ratings on booking dot com are like I've

576
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:20,799
Speaker 2: got an award, a travel award, because they're nine point

577
00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:24,200
Speaker 2: one out of ten, and my Airbnb is getting four

578
00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:26,279
Speaker 2: point nine out of five and I got a one

579
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:30,359
Speaker 2: hundred dollars in SuperHost award and I'm loving. I mean,

580
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:31,840
Speaker 2: this is what I'm meant to do. And you know,

581
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:34,680
Speaker 2: the people that come through here, a lot of them

582
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:38,080
Speaker 2: are drawn to me, just like this little spot opened

583
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:41,759
Speaker 2: up today. Yeah, the people who come to stay with

584
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:48,360
Speaker 2: me quite often leave with something important and something grounding.

585
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:53,480
Speaker 1: Well, you have beautiful energy and you have really beautiful intentions,

586
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:56,279
Speaker 1: so that matters, and that makes a difference. So I

587
00:35:56,320 --> 00:36:00,440
Speaker 1: want to know, she said earlier, old fuck this up,

588
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:02,880
Speaker 1: so correct me if I get it wrong. But something like,

589
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:05,239
Speaker 1: it's good that I'm in a place now where I

590
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:08,680
Speaker 1: love me and I'm happy to be just me. I'm

591
00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:11,560
Speaker 1: happy to be not alone, but happy to be single

592
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:13,840
Speaker 1: because you're not alone because you've got friends and family

593
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:20,680
Speaker 1: and kids and grandkid. Now, congrats. Is the door open

594
00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:23,920
Speaker 1: for a I know you're not looking, but is the

595
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:27,040
Speaker 1: door open for a relationship or is like not fuck

596
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:29,400
Speaker 1: that I don't trust them or I don't trust myself.

597
00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:34,880
Speaker 2: No, I really do trust myself. I have no qualms

598
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:39,759
Speaker 2: about that. But my growth and on purpose, like I

599
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:42,160
Speaker 2: listen to you, I do a lot of other things,

600
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:45,600
Speaker 2: and I pick a topic each year and grow into that.

601
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:51,239
Speaker 2: This year it's you know, last year it was la boundaries,

602
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:55,600
Speaker 2: you know, and even me just learning to turn around

603
00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:58,480
Speaker 2: and saying no, I'm sorry, that's not happening, or no

604
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:03,600
Speaker 2: I can't or no you won't, and especially running an airbnb,

605
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:06,000
Speaker 2: you know, like I have to be tough on people.

606
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:11,680
Speaker 2: And so each year I'm I'm giving myself a challenge.

607
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:15,239
Speaker 2: And because I'm growing, I kind of feel that even

608
00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:17,520
Speaker 2: if I met somebody at the beginning of the year,

609
00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:22,040
Speaker 2: by the end of the year, id outgrowth and look,

610
00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:27,200
Speaker 2: if the right person came along and we could have

611
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:31,400
Speaker 2: interesting conversations. I did quiz, so I've got a great

612
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:35,000
Speaker 2: quiz tribe, so you know, I'm really interested in facts

613
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:37,640
Speaker 2: and figures and crazy stuff. And if I had a

614
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:42,120
Speaker 2: person that came along that was a kindred spirit, then

615
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:46,680
Speaker 2: of course, and I don't feel mistrusting. I feel so

616
00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:50,279
Speaker 2: much confidence in myself and also with my boundaries that

617
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:54,680
Speaker 2: if I turned around and met somebody today and their

618
00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:59,760
Speaker 2: behavior wasn't appropriate, I would just turn around and say,

619
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:04,919
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, that's not good enough, goodbye. Whereas way back

620
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:08,560
Speaker 2: when then when I attracted a narcissist, it was like Oh, okay,

621
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:14,279
Speaker 2: I'm really sorry. You know, like people pleaser, and that's

622
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:16,440
Speaker 2: what all says in a book. You know, the amount

623
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:19,280
Speaker 2: of people who cancer are people pleases are amazing.

624
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:23,640
Speaker 1: And I think that you made a really good point

625
00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:26,960
Speaker 1: before and you said something like, you feel like the

626
00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:32,520
Speaker 1: trauma from the trauma that you'd been through caused you cancer.

627
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:37,160
Speaker 1: And you know, the thing is that like stress and

628
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:42,839
Speaker 1: anxiety and overthinking and depression, while we kind of put

629
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:46,279
Speaker 1: those in the psychological and emotional baskets, there's a very

630
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:51,719
Speaker 1: real physiological consequence to all of those things. And we

631
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:57,439
Speaker 1: know now like that things like isolation and loneliness, which

632
00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:00,560
Speaker 1: is a form of trauma. It's not the traditional trauma

633
00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:05,799
Speaker 1: we think about, but isolation, loneliness, disconnection like these have

634
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:08,800
Speaker 1: an impact on our immune system. These have an impact

635
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:12,960
Speaker 1: on our physical health. These have an impact on our

636
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:17,360
Speaker 1: lifespan and health span. And in the old days, I

637
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:22,480
Speaker 1: would only talk about you know, exercise and sleep and food,

638
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:26,200
Speaker 1: and you know, maybe every now and then about anxiety.

639
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:30,480
Speaker 1: But these days I'm talking a lot about the power

640
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:38,920
Speaker 1: of love, kindness, social connection, intimacy, you know, be that

641
00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:42,279
Speaker 1: romantic or not, or just being very close feeling like

642
00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:46,640
Speaker 1: you belong, feeling valued, feeling seen, feeling loved, being loved,

643
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:50,360
Speaker 1: feeling safe, like all of these things that you wouldn't

644
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:54,360
Speaker 1: compare to vegetables and bloody jogging, but in many ways

645
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:58,680
Speaker 1: they're more important for our physical health then whether or

646
00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:00,560
Speaker 1: not we've been to the gym in the life. And

647
00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:02,320
Speaker 1: this is coming from a bloke who goes to the

648
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:03,120
Speaker 1: gym every day.

649
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:07,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely. And I remember this is something that you

650
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:10,120
Speaker 2: always say. I mean, when we started off this work

651
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:13,120
Speaker 2: with Jill, she said, well, you need to develop self

652
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:15,279
Speaker 2: love and self worth. And I remember saying, can you

653
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:18,320
Speaker 2: tell me which shop I can buy that apply? Because

654
00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:20,719
Speaker 2: I don't know where to get that. But what you've

655
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:24,480
Speaker 2: talked about along, and this is definitely where how I

656
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:27,520
Speaker 2: got it, is that when you live in alignment with

657
00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:32,000
Speaker 2: your beliefs, when that's how your self esteem grows. Every

658
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:37,399
Speaker 2: time you make a decision that is for yourself or

659
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:39,920
Speaker 2: the right decision, you know, it's quite easy. You know,

660
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:42,279
Speaker 2: you talk about a lot, do the right thing, do

661
00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:45,200
Speaker 2: the wrong thing. You know, if you talk about doing

662
00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:49,279
Speaker 2: the right thing and then you do the right thing,

663
00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:52,040
Speaker 2: and it's taken a long time, It's taken a good

664
00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:56,120
Speaker 2: ten years. But because I now live in alignment with

665
00:40:56,200 --> 00:41:03,279
Speaker 2: my beliefs, which are family orientated, which are being myself.

666
00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:06,839
Speaker 2: You know, I don't apologize for you know, not you know,

667
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:11,800
Speaker 2: being somebody not seeing myself. So it's like really quite funny.

668
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:14,880
Speaker 2: Like back in those days, in the middle of that relationship,

669
00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:19,400
Speaker 2: I was absolutely wired. It would be a good way

670
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:24,200
Speaker 2: to put it, totally wired, like high alert and like

671
00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:29,319
Speaker 2: they talk about walking on eggshells, and that's exactly what

672
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:35,040
Speaker 2: anybody a toxic narcissistic relationship is. And I was wired

673
00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:39,439
Speaker 2: twenty four seven. Now I am so calm and chill

674
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:42,680
Speaker 2: that even if I have a bad thought, I have

675
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:44,480
Speaker 2: to sit down and have a good talk to myself

676
00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:48,120
Speaker 2: and my mantra. Like when we did all the renovations,

677
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:52,200
Speaker 2: which most people find very stressful, had I man, I'd

678
00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:55,120
Speaker 2: project managed it, and the mantra on the job was

679
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:59,959
Speaker 2: nobody died unless somebody dies, I'm not going to worry

680
00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:03,560
Speaker 2: because we're a week late. No one's going to die

681
00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:05,800
Speaker 2: if I don't get this done.

682
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:14,319
Speaker 1: Do you think that for it's harder for women in

683
00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:20,760
Speaker 1: that women and I'm generalizing here more empathetic, I think, naturally,

684
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:23,440
Speaker 1: more like most people that listen to my show Women.

685
00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:26,239
Speaker 1: Most people that come to my events of women, And

686
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:29,160
Speaker 1: you know this is not an idea or this is

687
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:32,319
Speaker 1: not a stab in the dark. I mean, I've got

688
00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:35,520
Speaker 1: lots of data and lots of evidence to say that. Well,

689
00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:39,759
Speaker 1: in my experience, my anecdotal experience, is that a lot

690
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:43,400
Speaker 1: of women think way more about their feelings and expressing

691
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:46,160
Speaker 1: their feelings and their mental and emotional health, and they're

692
00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:49,680
Speaker 1: more up talking about it and whether or not they

693
00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:53,759
Speaker 1: are inherently kinder or they just act that as in,

694
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:57,880
Speaker 1: they just express it more than men do. I feel

695
00:42:57,880 --> 00:43:01,600
Speaker 1: like women can be because of all of those things,

696
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:06,400
Speaker 1: they can be more likely to be a people pleaser. Yeah,

697
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:08,880
Speaker 1: and so what's And I know this is just you

698
00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:10,840
Speaker 1: and me having a chat and you're not a clinician,

699
00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:15,160
Speaker 1: and neither am I really, but what's your advice for

700
00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:20,880
Speaker 1: people who are fucking lifelong people pleases, chronic people pleasers,

701
00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:24,280
Speaker 1: which you probably were? And I reckon Even in my life,

702
00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:27,480
Speaker 1: I've been not a chronic people pleaser. But I always

703
00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:31,319
Speaker 1: wanted everyone to like me, and so I compromised a bit,

704
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:33,640
Speaker 1: you know, and I did dumb shit because I wanted to.

705
00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:36,960
Speaker 1: I didn't want anyone to not like me because I

706
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:38,840
Speaker 1: was insecure. What's your advice?

707
00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:43,760
Speaker 2: Well, when you are in that state, you are shat

708
00:43:44,239 --> 00:43:48,760
Speaker 2: and you are empty. And where I was a people

709
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:51,640
Speaker 2: pleaser and one of my girlfriends did the best thing

710
00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:55,080
Speaker 2: ever one day she said to me, when I spend

711
00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:56,360
Speaker 2: an hour with you, I've got to go and have

712
00:43:56,400 --> 00:43:58,799
Speaker 2: a cup of teina, lie down. You know I was

713
00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:04,479
Speaker 2: dragging her energy out of her because I was so empty. Yes,

714
00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:09,040
Speaker 2: and it's because you're empty that you're people pleasing to

715
00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:12,239
Speaker 2: try and feel yourself up. But when you do the

716
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:16,160
Speaker 2: work and you become full, you feel and this is

717
00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:18,160
Speaker 2: like I know you are as well. You must feel

718
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:20,960
Speaker 2: this as well. But when you are fulfilled, not what

719
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:24,600
Speaker 2: we call happy, but when you are fulfilled and joyous,

720
00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:27,600
Speaker 2: you don't need to drag that out of anybody. You

721
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:30,160
Speaker 2: can quite happily give it to somebody, and you don't

722
00:44:30,200 --> 00:44:33,440
Speaker 2: need to please anybody. You can just you know, when

723
00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:36,480
Speaker 2: you've got it filled up, then it's the time to

724
00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:39,480
Speaker 2: be a giver. And then that then adds to your

725
00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:42,239
Speaker 2: self esteem because you know, you know, not everyone's going

726
00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:45,560
Speaker 2: to like you, and you may give to a whole

727
00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:46,280
Speaker 2: pot of people.

728
00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:46,920
Speaker 1: That don't even like you.

729
00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:50,000
Speaker 2: But that's okay, because they might they might give it

730
00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:52,520
Speaker 2: to somebody else, and that's you know, it's like playing

731
00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:56,399
Speaker 2: it forward, and that's what that's what fills you up,

732
00:44:56,480 --> 00:45:01,160
Speaker 2: and that's what makes you feel whole. And you'll never

733
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:06,920
Speaker 2: ever ever get anything that you need from another person.

734
00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:11,160
Speaker 2: I really, I know that sounds weird, but you just won't.

735
00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:15,240
Speaker 2: And really, I kind of think you've got no business

736
00:45:15,239 --> 00:45:18,160
Speaker 2: being in a relationship until you have filled yourself up,

737
00:45:18,719 --> 00:45:22,600
Speaker 2: because I don't think it's a fair relationship. I think

738
00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:25,439
Speaker 2: that if two people were just needing off each other,

739
00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:29,720
Speaker 2: I don't think that's healthy. I think that two people

740
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:34,000
Speaker 2: who are fully present in themselves and love themselves got

741
00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:36,520
Speaker 2: the best bet of making a go at things well.

742
00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:41,840
Speaker 1: I think also, yeah, I think also some people, Oh god,

743
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:46,839
Speaker 1: I'm so careful that I know you can tell I

744
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:49,399
Speaker 1: get a few emails. Okay, this is what I think.

745
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:54,480
Speaker 1: Fucking I think some people, men and women see things

746
00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:58,480
Speaker 1: like marriage as a solution to a problem. Right now,

747
00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:01,640
Speaker 1: I'm not saying marriage is bad or being in a relation.

748
00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:04,399
Speaker 1: You know, my last fucked, I'm fucked. All I need

749
00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:06,960
Speaker 1: is to be in a relationship. No, for God's sake,

750
00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:10,520
Speaker 1: that's the last thing you need to figure you the

751
00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:14,640
Speaker 1: fuck out before you take all that emotional psychological bullshit

752
00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:21,040
Speaker 1: into someone else's energy. Feel it's like no, no, like

753
00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:24,239
Speaker 1: that person is not going to fix you, solve you,

754
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:28,320
Speaker 1: or save you. And this is the And I think also,

755
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:34,480
Speaker 1: I think because some people panic about not having someone

756
00:46:35,600 --> 00:46:40,000
Speaker 1: and so then they lower their standards and then it's like, wow,

757
00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:46,240
Speaker 1: well he she whatever, they you know, they tick enough boxes,

758
00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:50,239
Speaker 1: and it's like if they meet certain criteria or you know,

759
00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:54,239
Speaker 1: they're kind of in the ballpark, whereas there's no you know,

760
00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:58,360
Speaker 1: and I'm not saying that's the majority, but that definitely happens.

761
00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:02,080
Speaker 1: It's not like, oh my god, God, absolutely and besotted

762
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:05,560
Speaker 1: head over heels, I love this person. No, they're single.

763
00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:09,080
Speaker 1: I'm single and I'm thirty seven, so fucking let's roll

764
00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:14,360
Speaker 1: the dice, ticken yeah, well yeah, or even just I

765
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:17,799
Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know. But having said that, the

766
00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:20,680
Speaker 1: fuck do I know? I'm sixty and single, I'm a

767
00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:24,839
Speaker 1: fucking idiot. And also, there's a few relationships that I've

768
00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:27,680
Speaker 1: seen get together and I thought not a chance, and

769
00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:31,360
Speaker 1: I was wrong. So don't listen to me. Did you

770
00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:32,760
Speaker 1: say you're writing another book.

771
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:36,839
Speaker 2: No I didn't. I didn't say I was, but I

772
00:47:36,920 --> 00:47:41,240
Speaker 2: really do feel I should. I think that's on the cards.

773
00:47:41,320 --> 00:47:44,359
Speaker 2: I think my big goal this year was with all

774
00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:48,359
Speaker 2: my vision board, was a trip to the UK to

775
00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:52,640
Speaker 2: track down my heritage in tallow and County Carlo and Ireland.

776
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:55,440
Speaker 2: So I just loved all that in I'm leaving on

777
00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:59,680
Speaker 2: the first of August and in doing England, Ireland, Scotland

778
00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:04,319
Speaker 2: over title of August with half with my girlfriend and

779
00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:08,600
Speaker 2: half are my aim. Wow, and I just because I'm

780
00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:11,720
Speaker 2: just cool to do it. I feel that it's going

781
00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:14,520
Speaker 2: to grow, you know, it's going to be some personal

782
00:48:14,520 --> 00:48:15,440
Speaker 2: growth involved in that.

783
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:19,680
Speaker 1: I had. I have a mildly not amusing, funny but

784
00:48:19,760 --> 00:48:25,360
Speaker 1: interesting story and that is I got contacted by a

785
00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:30,360
Speaker 1: lady who lives in I think over your side, I

786
00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:34,840
Speaker 1: think in Perth. I've got a feeling she was working

787
00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:40,120
Speaker 1: in the minds anyway. She was Irish, is Irish and

788
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:43,200
Speaker 1: it was a while ago now, it's like maybe six

789
00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:46,359
Speaker 1: years ago, maybe just a little bit before COVID and

790
00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:50,319
Speaker 1: I didn't know. But I had this whole group of

791
00:48:50,360 --> 00:48:54,200
Speaker 1: people in Ireland that followed my stuff and were quiet,

792
00:48:54,239 --> 00:48:57,319
Speaker 1: and they had a Facebook page and they were this

793
00:48:57,440 --> 00:48:59,640
Speaker 1: whole group and it was big. It was like one

794
00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:02,960
Speaker 1: hundred of people and they would talk about my my

795
00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:06,160
Speaker 1: all my shit, right which was lovely, which was lovely.

796
00:49:06,239 --> 00:49:09,839
Speaker 1: And anyway, that Irish lady from Wa reached out and said,

797
00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:12,880
Speaker 1: what would it take, like how much would we have

798
00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:15,160
Speaker 1: to pay to get you to one? Are you're interested

799
00:49:15,200 --> 00:49:17,560
Speaker 1: and to how much would we have to pay to

800
00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:21,359
Speaker 1: get you to come to Ireland and talk to our

801
00:49:21,640 --> 00:49:24,680
Speaker 1: essentially our Craig Arp group, Right, And I'm like, one,

802
00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:28,160
Speaker 1: that's completely gorgeous. I so much love that. And two

803
00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:34,880
Speaker 1: my mum's mum her name was Molly Malone, right, and

804
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:37,719
Speaker 1: so I have this, Yeah, so I have this. I'm

805
00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:42,800
Speaker 1: like one eighth Irish And anyway, I said, just pay

806
00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:46,560
Speaker 1: for my expenses and I'll obviously you know that's still

807
00:49:46,560 --> 00:49:49,359
Speaker 1: going to cost them, but I said, just pay all

808
00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:52,040
Speaker 1: my bill, like pay the airfare, pay their com whatever,

809
00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:55,279
Speaker 1: and I'll do the talk for free. So you know,

810
00:49:55,400 --> 00:49:58,520
Speaker 1: so I'll fly over, I'll make zero dollars, but I'll

811
00:49:58,560 --> 00:50:03,080
Speaker 1: get to see where my roots are from. Anyway, I

812
00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:06,600
Speaker 1: went to this little place called Tullamore shout out to

813
00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:09,400
Speaker 1: the people in Tullamore. Oh my god. You know, like

814
00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:11,880
Speaker 1: I've been I've been to a lot of places, like

815
00:50:11,960 --> 00:50:14,960
Speaker 1: a lot of countries, a lot, and I've spoken in

816
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:20,000
Speaker 1: a lot of places. And there was something energetically weird

817
00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:26,200
Speaker 1: Tracy Lee Connor about I genuinely felt and I didn't

818
00:50:26,239 --> 00:50:30,640
Speaker 1: expect this, so there was no like psychosomitic. I felt

819
00:50:30,719 --> 00:50:34,640
Speaker 1: like I'd been there before. And I felt like even

820
00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:37,640
Speaker 1: though I didn't know the people, I felt like I

821
00:50:37,719 --> 00:50:39,919
Speaker 1: knew them and they were the warmest people I've ever

822
00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:44,000
Speaker 1: met anywhere in the world, and so much so right,

823
00:50:44,160 --> 00:50:46,920
Speaker 1: Like it's a small town, Tullamore. I think it's like

824
00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:49,480
Speaker 1: ten thousand people. I think it's like an hour and

825
00:50:49,520 --> 00:50:53,680
Speaker 1: a half out of Dublin, but people like I had

826
00:50:53,800 --> 00:50:59,040
Speaker 1: at least a dozen different people offer for me to

827
00:50:59,200 --> 00:51:03,080
Speaker 1: stay with them. Like I was like, and that asked

828
00:51:03,080 --> 00:51:05,080
Speaker 1: me where I'm staying, and I said, Oh, I'm staying

829
00:51:05,120 --> 00:51:07,680
Speaker 1: at you know, the whatever hotel And they're like, oh,

830
00:51:07,719 --> 00:51:10,239
Speaker 1: you want to be doing that, You'll be staying with us. Oh,

831
00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:12,200
Speaker 1: you'd be coming, you'd be staying with us. You won't

832
00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:17,080
Speaker 1: be standing there, No, can't be doing that. And I'm like,

833
00:51:17,080 --> 00:51:19,719
Speaker 1: like they were so nice. I'm like, I'm definitely not

834
00:51:19,719 --> 00:51:22,279
Speaker 1: coming and staying in your house, but it would freak

835
00:51:22,320 --> 00:51:25,640
Speaker 1: me out to Oh but fuck, it was a fun

836
00:51:25,719 --> 00:51:30,719
Speaker 1: trip and the nice. Oh yeah, through that way, you'll

837
00:51:30,719 --> 00:51:33,720
Speaker 1: love it. You'll you'll dig it all right, going.

838
00:51:33,640 --> 00:51:36,960
Speaker 2: Right through that way, So you'll have you done your

839
00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:37,920
Speaker 2: ancestry DNA.

840
00:51:39,680 --> 00:51:40,759
Speaker 1: No, I should do it.

841
00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:43,000
Speaker 2: I should do it. I thought I was only a

842
00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:45,319
Speaker 2: little bit about twenty five percent Irish. Turns out I'm

843
00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:46,160
Speaker 2: fifty four percent.

844
00:51:47,280 --> 00:51:50,279
Speaker 1: Wow, that's you and I could be bloody related. Who

845
00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:54,080
Speaker 1: knows tell people how to find you, follow you by

846
00:51:54,160 --> 00:51:55,400
Speaker 1: your book all that stuff.

847
00:51:56,040 --> 00:51:58,960
Speaker 2: Oh my god, you know something I've COVID got me.

848
00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:01,239
Speaker 2: I've done nothing in the book under the bed. I've

849
00:52:01,320 --> 00:52:04,279
Speaker 2: just turned around and turned into a hermit and I've

850
00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:07,520
Speaker 2: got to change that. But you know, tl t LC

851
00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:11,160
Speaker 2: one six zero two at live dot com dot au

852
00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:12,960
Speaker 2: about the only way to get in touch with me

853
00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:15,600
Speaker 2: or I'm on Facebook.

854
00:52:15,719 --> 00:52:17,759
Speaker 1: All right, And if you really want to get in

855
00:52:17,920 --> 00:52:21,000
Speaker 1: touch with Tracy, email me via the site info at

856
00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:24,960
Speaker 1: Craigharper dot net and we'll make sure that she gets

857
00:52:25,320 --> 00:52:28,520
Speaker 1: forward that email to her. Hey, thanks for sending me

858
00:52:28,600 --> 00:52:32,279
Speaker 1: an email today, and thanks for that. I feel like

859
00:52:32,360 --> 00:52:34,399
Speaker 1: you and I were all over the place in that chat.

860
00:52:34,440 --> 00:52:36,040
Speaker 1: But I feel like it's okay.

861
00:52:37,120 --> 00:52:39,560
Speaker 2: I think that that's just that's who we are.

862
00:52:40,280 --> 00:52:43,560
Speaker 1: It's like two dogs with three dicks, just all over

863
00:52:43,600 --> 00:52:46,680
Speaker 1: the shop. Very excited, very excited me.

864
00:52:46,719 --> 00:52:48,080
Speaker 2: I get there in the end. I've got to lean

865
00:52:48,120 --> 00:52:49,160
Speaker 2: into my strengths.

866
00:52:49,840 --> 00:52:52,799
Speaker 1: All right, stay there. We'll say you by affair, but thanks, Trace,

867
00:52:52,840 --> 00:52:54,640
Speaker 1: appreciate you no ways.

868
00:52:54,640 --> 00:52:55,240
Speaker 2: Thanks great