1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:03,880 Speaker 1: I get a groovers welcome to another installing the shots 2 00:00:03,920 --> 00:00:07,920 Speaker 1: so you project of course, Tracy Lee Connor from the 3 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:10,560 Speaker 1: other side. Well, it depends where you're at, doesn't it. 4 00:00:10,600 --> 00:00:13,040 Speaker 1: From where I am the other side of the country, 5 00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:19,960 Speaker 1: on the western side. I'm on the eastern side of Australia. Hi, Trace, 6 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:21,280 Speaker 1: how are you? Hey? 7 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:22,800 Speaker 2: You going, Craig. I'm awesome. 8 00:00:23,480 --> 00:00:27,440 Speaker 1: Oh, you are always good. You know, you're one of 9 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:30,520 Speaker 1: those people. I mean, we've met quite a few times 10 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:34,720 Speaker 1: and you are you are among other things, like you're 11 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:37,159 Speaker 1: a superstar in your own right. But you've been a 12 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:41,479 Speaker 1: follower and a listener and an attendee to my stuff 13 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:44,880 Speaker 1: for how long, like a long time, right, I'd. 14 00:00:44,680 --> 00:00:49,560 Speaker 2: Say four or five years, And it just what I'd 15 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:52,040 Speaker 2: do is just gather my toolbox. I've got a toolbox, 16 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:55,800 Speaker 2: and between you and my psychologist, I have you know, 17 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:59,240 Speaker 2: check everything in the toolbox. And that's where it is. 18 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:02,800 Speaker 1: Why I know it's definitely more than four or five years, 19 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:06,160 Speaker 1: because COVID was four four and a half years ago, 20 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:07,480 Speaker 1: and it was way before that. 21 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:13,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, it must have been seventeen or eighteen then, or 22 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:14,040 Speaker 2: maybe eighteen. 23 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:19,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's a good anyway. Anyway, among other things. 24 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:21,800 Speaker 1: You've written a book called Chemo Brain, which we're not 25 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:24,280 Speaker 1: going to revisit today other than just to mention it 26 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:29,920 Speaker 1: because that we've chatted quite a bit about this. But give, 27 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:35,039 Speaker 1: just give people before we talk about psychopaths in romantic relationships, 28 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:38,200 Speaker 1: which is what we're covering off today, just give people 29 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:42,280 Speaker 1: a quick the one minute overview because a lot of 30 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:45,399 Speaker 1: people listening to this won't have met you in inverted commas, 31 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 1: so give them the snapshot of the one minute synthesis, 32 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:57,480 Speaker 1: the one minute snapshot synopsis of your your Chemo Brain 33 00:01:57,520 --> 00:02:00,240 Speaker 1: book and journey. 34 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:05,280 Speaker 2: So twenty eleven, I had breast cancer and so I 35 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:10,120 Speaker 2: was given massive doses of chemotherapy and all of a sudden, 36 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:12,639 Speaker 2: I thought I could just go back to work, And 37 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:14,320 Speaker 2: all of a sudden went back to work and nothing 38 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:19,000 Speaker 2: made sense. So long story short. Over time, I thought 39 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:21,200 Speaker 2: it would get better, as everybody told me I would, 40 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 2: but I actually got worse. And through my beautiful community online, 41 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:31,000 Speaker 2: I found some amazing people that helped me determine that 42 00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:35,160 Speaker 2: I had long term chemo brain. So I couldn't go 43 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:37,600 Speaker 2: back to work. I had to try and find a 44 00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:40,760 Speaker 2: way to live, had to get some insurance, so I 45 00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 2: did the David and glything and was quite successful, and 46 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 2: then I wrote a book about it. But mainly when 47 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:50,959 Speaker 2: I started writing books that seemed to be about chemo bran, 48 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:55,160 Speaker 2: it was actually more about my personal story because people 49 00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 2: like Ian Gawler agreed with me that there was something 50 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:04,400 Speaker 2: more to do cancer than just you know, random bad luck. 51 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 2: It was a lot of it was trauma induced, and 52 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 2: it kind of segues into what we're talking about today 53 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:13,840 Speaker 2: because I had been in a narcissistic relationship and the 54 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:16,960 Speaker 2: trauma of that I believe most definitely brought on my 55 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:17,640 Speaker 2: breast cancer. 56 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:23,919 Speaker 1: Wow, so you wow, Okay, okay, just quickly before we 57 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:27,920 Speaker 1: move on, when did you first hear the term? Not 58 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 1: that I trust your judgment now with dates, because you've 59 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:33,080 Speaker 1: already proven in two minutes your shit with recall and 60 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:37,360 Speaker 1: shit with dates. When did you first hear the term 61 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 1: chemo brain? When did you hear that? What year? For 62 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 1: the first time? 63 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:47,440 Speaker 2: Two thousand and thirteen. 64 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 1: Right, so that's eleven years ago. And back then it 65 00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:54,480 Speaker 1: wasn't really I mean, it was more like just a 66 00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:58,119 Speaker 1: colloquial term than anything that was held in any kind 67 00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 1: of medical regard, right exactly. 68 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:04,720 Speaker 2: It was like baby brain, and that would get it 69 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:08,120 Speaker 2: would get discarded and laughed off in the same sense, 70 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:09,960 Speaker 2: Oh you've got baby brow here, You'll get over it. 71 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:12,720 Speaker 2: That's all the doctors said. But now they caught that. 72 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:19,280 Speaker 2: My doctor rash Asher from the Cedar Sinai Hospital, the 73 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:22,560 Speaker 2: medical director for cancer Survivorship, says that we need to 74 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:26,480 Speaker 2: call it cancer related cognitive impairment because it's not always 75 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:29,560 Speaker 2: from the chemo. It can often be from the cancer. 76 00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:35,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, wow, And so I'm writing that cancer related 77 00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 1: cognitive impairment CRCI. Yeah. I probably shouldn't write that down 78 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:43,159 Speaker 1: in the middle of an interview, but fuck it, I 79 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:45,039 Speaker 1: want to remember that term, so I wrote it down. 80 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:52,080 Speaker 3: So do you you think that because you've been like 81 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:58,600 Speaker 3: I know you were in one significant toxic, destructive relationship with. 82 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 1: Psychopath? Is that? Just have you had multiple relationships like that? Like, 83 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 1: do you think you've been you've had relationships more than 84 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:12,680 Speaker 1: one psychopath? One is enough, by the way. 85 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:16,560 Speaker 2: One is enough. But the reason I'm talking to you 86 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 2: today one was I didn't even know what a narcissist was. 87 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:24,400 Speaker 2: I had never heard the term. I didn't understand what 88 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:27,960 Speaker 2: it was. I was in this crazy, toxic destructive relationship. 89 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:30,800 Speaker 2: But knowing me being the researcher that I am, I 90 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:33,320 Speaker 2: had to find an answer. I just went, what is 91 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:36,400 Speaker 2: going on with this? One of us is crazy? And 92 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:40,080 Speaker 2: so I you know, when I finally got out of 93 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:43,919 Speaker 2: that relationship, of which I'm kind of grateful I had it, 94 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:47,800 Speaker 2: because it was the first thing that really determined how 95 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:51,839 Speaker 2: much I did not love myself, because I allowed people 96 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:54,160 Speaker 2: to really fuck with my head in a way that 97 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:57,960 Speaker 2: nearly a nearly killed me with cancer, and be what 98 00:05:58,279 --> 00:06:01,400 Speaker 2: that didn't happen on early committed side of it. So 99 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:05,760 Speaker 2: it was really, you know, like how must you not 100 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:10,839 Speaker 2: love yourself? And so then started a fifteen year journey 101 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:15,800 Speaker 2: with my wonderful counselor to then get to the point 102 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:19,360 Speaker 2: where I'm madly in love with myself and I don't 103 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:22,760 Speaker 2: care about anybody else. I'm so happy. 104 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:26,480 Speaker 1: That's not true. You care about other people, just my family. 105 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:29,120 Speaker 2: I do, but I don't yearn for that. I don't 106 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:32,760 Speaker 2: have that yearning for a significant other to talk to 107 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:37,280 Speaker 2: validate me and make me feel like anything. You know, 108 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:43,480 Speaker 2: It's like, unfortunately, it's when women feel that way that 109 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:46,120 Speaker 2: they just feel, Oh, if I only met the right person, 110 00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:49,240 Speaker 2: that could see me as I am, and then they're 111 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:52,839 Speaker 2: so open to be manipulated when they meet these people 112 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 2: because they're quite under the radar. So the first the 113 00:06:56,920 --> 00:07:00,160 Speaker 2: relationship I had was with a narcissist that we its 114 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:04,880 Speaker 2: just not really all that calculating. I probably didn't even 115 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:07,560 Speaker 2: realize it was a narcissist. But the ones that I 116 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:10,720 Speaker 2: had after that, I had one very short one that 117 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:13,600 Speaker 2: I recognized it for what it was very quickly because 118 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:17,480 Speaker 2: of my experience, and that was the covert narcissist, which 119 00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 2: we're going to cover today. And since then, I've also 120 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:25,840 Speaker 2: mainly people around me, people I care about, people I've 121 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:31,440 Speaker 2: been significantly in their lives, are being caught up with 122 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:34,440 Speaker 2: the covert narcissist. And for the fact that I speak 123 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:38,240 Speaker 2: fluent narcissist, I don't stay long in their lives when 124 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:42,160 Speaker 2: they meet one of these guys, because they take one 125 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 2: look at me opening my mouth for five minutes and go, 126 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 2: oh my god, she's going to out me and I 127 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:50,040 Speaker 2: need to get rid of her out of this person's life, 128 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 2: which they do very quickly. 129 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:55,040 Speaker 1: Wow Wow, all right, So what I mean, I don't 130 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 1: know how this is going to work because, as with 131 00:07:57,560 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 1: every podcast, I just make shit up as I go. 132 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:04,920 Speaker 1: So what I'm going to do, I'm going to I'm 133 00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 1: going to read some of what you sent me today. 134 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:10,560 Speaker 1: And we don't normally like I get lots and lots 135 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:14,360 Speaker 1: of emails, I get emails and messages, and you, by 136 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:16,680 Speaker 1: the way, we know who you are, and you're credible 137 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 1: and you're not just some weirdo saying I want to 138 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 1: be on the show. But I got your message today 139 00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:25,679 Speaker 1: and I went, that is actually really worth chatting about. 140 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:27,960 Speaker 1: And so it's been a very quick turnaround because I 141 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 1: got your email this morning and you said, at some 142 00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:32,720 Speaker 1: stage can I chat about this? I read it and 143 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:36,320 Speaker 1: I went, yeah, that's actually I think it's really helpful 144 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:40,760 Speaker 1: potentially for a lot of people. For me, I'm reasonably 145 00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 1: familiar with sociopaths and psychopaths narcissist because of my own 146 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:48,680 Speaker 1: experiences and my research and my work and all of that. 147 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:52,680 Speaker 1: But I think I think a lot of people think 148 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:56,600 Speaker 1: that a psychopath is an axe wielding murderer, yes, when 149 00:08:56,640 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 1: sometimes they're actually socially skilled, charming, good looking, high iq smooth, 150 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:12,679 Speaker 1: outwardly kind fucking warm, caring. But we kind of find 151 00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 1: out that although the last three things anyway, are basically 152 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:21,160 Speaker 1: a show. So I'm going to read some of this 153 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:22,640 Speaker 1: and then I'm going to hit the pause button then 154 00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:27,559 Speaker 1: get you to unpack various bits. So Psychopaths in Romantic 155 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:32,280 Speaker 1: Relationships was the heading with a state of domestic violence. 156 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:35,040 Speaker 1: I don't think there are enough conversations highlighting this type 157 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 1: of relationship and the playbook and red flags that are there. 158 00:09:40,559 --> 00:09:43,600 Speaker 1: All right, let's start with that. What's a red flag 159 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:47,760 Speaker 1: if somebody, I'm sure our audience is a little bit 160 00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:51,760 Speaker 1: educated because of David Gillespie, of whom you're a fan, 161 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:55,280 Speaker 1: I understand, oh, total fan. 162 00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:58,559 Speaker 2: And the other thing you know, and like he talks 163 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:02,760 Speaker 2: about do not do not engage with the junkyard dog, 164 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:06,760 Speaker 2: and he's right, do not engage. But the covert narcissist 165 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:11,040 Speaker 2: that I'm talking about isn't the junkyard dog, and isn't 166 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:14,520 Speaker 2: even the good looking junkyard dog. He's a wolf. He's 167 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:19,440 Speaker 2: a wolf in sheep's clothing. He lives his life in 168 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:22,640 Speaker 2: a way that other people and he's usually got a 169 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:26,960 Speaker 2: hard lock, sad story. Something dreadful happened to him in 170 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:29,720 Speaker 2: one of the covert narcissists that I had in my 171 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:33,560 Speaker 2: life this was true. It was devastating that he did 172 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 2: lose his daughter in a car accident. It was a 173 00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 2: very sad thing. But he played that really well so 174 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:42,320 Speaker 2: that when you feel so deeply sorry for somebody, you 175 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 2: do ignore some of the flags that do come up 176 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:50,360 Speaker 2: because oh, God has been through so much. So and 177 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:53,840 Speaker 2: there's a playbook, So there's usually a sad story there is. 178 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:57,160 Speaker 2: Then there becomes something to hook you in, which is 179 00:10:57,240 --> 00:11:00,400 Speaker 2: usually the sad story. Or they're very humble, They sit 180 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:02,559 Speaker 2: back and they don't say much, and they look like 181 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:05,360 Speaker 2: they're the quiet person. They really don't say, but they 182 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:08,200 Speaker 2: don't say. But the reasons they don't say too much 183 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:11,400 Speaker 2: is they do want to hide who they are, and 184 00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 2: the less they say, the more people can just assume 185 00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:18,199 Speaker 2: that they're great people because they don't want to give up. 186 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:21,360 Speaker 2: You know, they're not really. I think COVIDT narcissists aren't 187 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:27,319 Speaker 2: as genuinely really really smart as the normal high level, 188 00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:31,679 Speaker 2: grandiose type of narcissist. So then what they do is 189 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 2: that they come across say what I call a target. 190 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:40,240 Speaker 2: It would be a person and it's usually a woman 191 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:44,280 Speaker 2: who's nearly always in any narcissistic relationship, there has to 192 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:48,600 Speaker 2: be an EmPATH because the covert narcissist is in pain 193 00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:53,559 Speaker 2: because of whatever sad thing happened to him. The EmPATH 194 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:56,920 Speaker 2: will just tune into that and go, oh, I can 195 00:11:56,960 --> 00:11:59,800 Speaker 2: fix you, I can make you happy, and then some 196 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 2: like that begins. And then what happens is it's always 197 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:10,520 Speaker 2: these long drawn out conversations over hours, days, weeks, and 198 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:13,720 Speaker 2: you go and the first thing that the person says 199 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:16,400 Speaker 2: when they meet these guys, oh my god, he listened 200 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:19,840 Speaker 2: to me. We talked for hours and days and weeks. 201 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:23,640 Speaker 2: But what they don't realize is that covert nasis is 202 00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:30,720 Speaker 2: just garnishing information data, what makes you tick, what makes you, 203 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:34,719 Speaker 2: where your buttons to suppress are, what your insecurities are, 204 00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:38,360 Speaker 2: and he gathers all this while you're thinking he's madly 205 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:41,360 Speaker 2: in love with you. It will generally move very fast, 206 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:44,880 Speaker 2: this type of relationship, and it'll generally involve the words 207 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:50,360 Speaker 2: like soul mate, never met anybody like you before, wish 208 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:53,440 Speaker 2: I'd met you forty years ago, I had. 209 00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:55,800 Speaker 1: This level of never had this level of connection. 210 00:12:56,440 --> 00:13:00,839 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, And then where you where it comes into 211 00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:04,080 Speaker 2: your field, Craig, is that we all know that when 212 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:09,920 Speaker 2: people fall in love, things change literally physiologically change in 213 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:15,080 Speaker 2: your brain, so you know, your decision making process and 214 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:18,160 Speaker 2: all sorts of things, even in a healthy in love relationship, 215 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:22,040 Speaker 2: are impaired to some degree. And then sometimes when all 216 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:25,360 Speaker 2: that settles down, the relationship, you know, sometimes doesn't work, 217 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:28,280 Speaker 2: and you know that's just a healthy in love relationship. 218 00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:34,520 Speaker 2: But with a covert narcissist, he love bombs very fast, 219 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:38,880 Speaker 2: very quick. He does things like, you know, pulls the 220 00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:41,400 Speaker 2: car up, puts the air conditioner on ten minutes before 221 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:44,000 Speaker 2: we're going to get in the car, and he does 222 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:46,120 Speaker 2: things that no one has ever done for you. And 223 00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:51,320 Speaker 2: then your brain then you know, you still take a 224 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:53,200 Speaker 2: bit of time, but then all of a sudden you 225 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:56,680 Speaker 2: let yourself go. You fall madly, deeply in love with 226 00:13:56,720 --> 00:14:00,920 Speaker 2: this person, and he keeps going until it's like a 227 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:05,240 Speaker 2: big fat fish on a hook and you it's. 228 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:10,440 Speaker 1: Kind of it's kind of like grooming righting. It's like 229 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:13,319 Speaker 1: to me, I'm thinking, as you were saying all this, 230 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:16,800 Speaker 1: if we were going to put it in a military context, 231 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:21,160 Speaker 1: it's like doing intel on the target. It's like it's 232 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:25,040 Speaker 1: like getting intel on the enemy, so you know their weaknesses, 233 00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:28,160 Speaker 1: you know how you can exploit them, you know, how 234 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:32,080 Speaker 1: you can take control and win. I mean, it's it's 235 00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:38,640 Speaker 1: very do you think do you think that they are 236 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:42,480 Speaker 1: like this is just how and I'm sure it's different. 237 00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:45,800 Speaker 1: And by the way, everyone, this is not two experts 238 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:49,800 Speaker 1: talking about this. This is just a conversation me having 239 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:53,640 Speaker 1: a conversation with somebody who had a pretty bad relationship 240 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:57,480 Speaker 1: with psychopath. But do you your experience and insight, and 241 00:14:57,520 --> 00:14:59,600 Speaker 1: you've chatted with lots of women who have been in 242 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:03,160 Speaker 1: similar relationships, do you think they set out to be 243 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:07,560 Speaker 1: that strategic from day one or that's just how they are. 244 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:13,200 Speaker 1: They are just their default setting is manipulation, controls, self serving, 245 00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:18,359 Speaker 1: you know, like psychopathic, narcissistic. 246 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:21,280 Speaker 2: But that's a really good question. This is what I think. 247 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:24,160 Speaker 2: And like you said, we're no two experts. But the 248 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:28,400 Speaker 2: way a narcissist is formed is usually something pretty drastic 249 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:31,040 Speaker 2: happened to them between the ones I know, the ones 250 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:34,320 Speaker 2: I've met, and the ones I've been involved with. Something 251 00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:37,080 Speaker 2: you know, usually my mom died at two, or you know, 252 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:41,160 Speaker 2: even my mom died at nine, or something really dramatic 253 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:46,760 Speaker 2: happened to these people in early childhood, which makes it 254 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:51,120 Speaker 2: so painful that their personality splits. And that's what a 255 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:56,360 Speaker 2: narcissist is. It's a person their personality split. And then 256 00:15:56,520 --> 00:15:58,800 Speaker 2: the one that's the one that they roll on with 257 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:01,240 Speaker 2: is the one that doesn't feel anything, has no empathy, 258 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:04,760 Speaker 2: feels no pain. But like we all know that the 259 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:10,359 Speaker 2: will of survival is one of all of our strongest 260 00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:13,760 Speaker 2: desires that we have to protect, the will to survive. 261 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:21,920 Speaker 2: So then you, for a narcissist, his survival is is 262 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:26,680 Speaker 2: garnering that narcissistic energy. You know, he has to maintain 263 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:31,720 Speaker 2: that energy. He hates himself, he's he's he's in pain, 264 00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:35,240 Speaker 2: and the only thing that makes him feel better is 265 00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:39,760 Speaker 2: when he's being adored, until the point once he's not 266 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:43,960 Speaker 2: being adored. It's even if he's hated, as long as 267 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:48,640 Speaker 2: he's getting something's energy, some sort of energy off the target. 268 00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:53,880 Speaker 2: And I guess what I don't know and understand is 269 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:58,320 Speaker 2: the playbook is identical. I know ten different narcissists and 270 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:00,680 Speaker 2: the playbook was the same, And I don't know why. 271 00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:04,720 Speaker 2: And you know what it is is that yes, first 272 00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:07,639 Speaker 2: of all, they love Bob, and then they put you 273 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:11,760 Speaker 2: up on a pedestal and then they resent you being 274 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:14,760 Speaker 2: on the pedestal because they start looking at things while 275 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:17,240 Speaker 2: you shouldn't be up on that pedestal, and they then 276 00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:21,440 Speaker 2: start pulling you apart. And what happens that I knew 277 00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 2: with the narcissist is that there was a normal person 278 00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:27,679 Speaker 2: understands win, win, and I think the win. We go 279 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:30,400 Speaker 2: into a scenario. We always want to come out win, win, 280 00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:33,520 Speaker 2: whereas a narcissist will never see that. He will see 281 00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:37,000 Speaker 2: if you're winning, he's losing. So if everyone's paying you 282 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:41,000 Speaker 2: attention because it's your birthday, then he will be very 283 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:45,240 Speaker 2: angry at you because it means that he's losing. Your winning, 284 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:49,679 Speaker 2: he's losing. If it's Christmas time and everyone's having a 285 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:54,160 Speaker 2: great day, you're winning. He's losing. He will ruin Christmas Day, 286 00:17:56,119 --> 00:17:56,959 Speaker 2: which they never know. 287 00:17:57,200 --> 00:17:59,479 Speaker 1: Do you know, off the top of your head? What 288 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:05,399 Speaker 1: of psychopaths? This is terrible, but fuck it, this is 289 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:09,600 Speaker 1: how we roll. What percentage of psychopaths are women. I'm 290 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:11,680 Speaker 1: just checking this out. I'm seeing what chat GP. 291 00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:15,600 Speaker 2: It's interesting that they're there, but not as much. 292 00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:23,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, we're bogged. Yeah, because I've googled. Yeah, I think 293 00:18:23,359 --> 00:18:26,159 Speaker 1: that I think we need to be of course, I 294 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:30,320 Speaker 1: think the majority of psychopaths are men, and but I 295 00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:35,640 Speaker 1: think we also need to point out that the women 296 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:39,000 Speaker 1: won't open any doors. But I've had some interesting experience 297 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:42,040 Speaker 1: over the years, and I can tell you it ain't 298 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:48,760 Speaker 1: all dudes, oh dudes. And yes, I agree, most men 299 00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:53,359 Speaker 1: are not most men. Most psychopaths the greater percentage. I 300 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:58,119 Speaker 1: think it's something like seventy thirty. I think it's something 301 00:18:58,240 --> 00:18:58,560 Speaker 1: like that. 302 00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:03,200 Speaker 2: But the women may be there. We don't know that. 303 00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:06,639 Speaker 1: So when you say covert cycle, is that an actual 304 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:07,840 Speaker 1: term or did you make that up? 305 00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:11,399 Speaker 2: There's an actual term. If you research it, they will 306 00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:13,080 Speaker 2: turn around and they'll give you. You know, if you 307 00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:16,680 Speaker 2: put in covert narcissist, they'll tell you that's a different 308 00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:20,280 Speaker 2: kettle of fish. It's a different it's a different narcissist. 309 00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:23,960 Speaker 2: And they act differently. And the reason they act differently 310 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:26,960 Speaker 2: is they they're they're in this, they're in the community. 311 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:29,600 Speaker 2: They're quite The ones I've known are in small towns. 312 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:32,760 Speaker 2: They're doing something for the you know, the Return Services 313 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:36,840 Speaker 2: League or some you know, some organization where everyone in 314 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:39,840 Speaker 2: town says they're such a great guy and they do 315 00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:42,560 Speaker 2: so much for everybody. And and oh, I've known him 316 00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:45,960 Speaker 2: all my life, and it's like, yeah, but he's been 317 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:48,479 Speaker 2: married three times and he's got and he's estranged from 318 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:52,000 Speaker 2: all different relationships. How do you explain that none of 319 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:53,840 Speaker 2: his kids speak to him? How do you how do 320 00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:57,760 Speaker 2: you know? How do you explain that? So with them, 321 00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:03,360 Speaker 2: going back to the playbook, it's the love bombing. Then 322 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:07,640 Speaker 2: once you're hooked, then they start these and it's honestly, 323 00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:10,760 Speaker 2: when you hear gaslighting. A lot of people have heard 324 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:13,760 Speaker 2: the term, but I don't think they really understand. I 325 00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:17,240 Speaker 2: got gas lit, not by a person I was in 326 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:19,520 Speaker 2: a relationship, but this is how I got tossed out 327 00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:23,800 Speaker 2: of that person's life without actually having any sort of 328 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:27,000 Speaker 2: argument with the person that I was close to or 329 00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:30,919 Speaker 2: the person that her new boyfriend. It was actually something 330 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:32,520 Speaker 2: to do. I had a little bit of a few 331 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:38,199 Speaker 2: words with his mate over a wine debate, and all 332 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:44,320 Speaker 2: of a sudden, out of nowhere, the boyfriend kept going upstairs. 333 00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:47,239 Speaker 2: You know, seven point thirty never said another word to 334 00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:50,880 Speaker 2: me after that sort of chiff I had with his mate, 335 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:54,679 Speaker 2: And I haven't heard from this person since February that 336 00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:58,640 Speaker 2: would call me three times a week. So what would 337 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:01,720 Speaker 2: have happened there is that I'd said a few things. 338 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:04,960 Speaker 2: I accidentally didn't realize who, you know, the whole situation, 339 00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:07,600 Speaker 2: and I sort of might have outed him a little bit, 340 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:09,960 Speaker 2: so I had to had to be gotten rid of. 341 00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:15,800 Speaker 2: But it's just that, you know, they they've got to survive. 342 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:17,680 Speaker 2: So all of a sudden he knew that, all of 343 00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:20,680 Speaker 2: a sudden it was dangerous to have me involved, so 344 00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:23,200 Speaker 2: he found a way. And he would have turned around 345 00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:25,639 Speaker 2: to this person who was madly in love with him 346 00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:28,760 Speaker 2: and said, well, look, you know, I'm not ever going 347 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:30,760 Speaker 2: to speak to this person again. I think that they're 348 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:32,840 Speaker 2: a heap of shit or something like that. But it's 349 00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:34,399 Speaker 2: fine me that you know, you can be friends with them, 350 00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:37,320 Speaker 2: but it's either them or me. And you know, when 351 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:39,960 Speaker 2: somebody is that crazily in love with you, of course, 352 00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:42,600 Speaker 2: and when the people that I've talked to, I mean, 353 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:45,920 Speaker 2: this has happened, if their sisters, their brothers, their fathers 354 00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:49,159 Speaker 2: and mothers. You know, once you're in a relationship with 355 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:51,840 Speaker 2: a narcissist, he can't afford to have anybody that's going 356 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:54,960 Speaker 2: to support her and take her side against him. But 357 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:59,200 Speaker 2: what he will choose, he'll find somebody in a trying 358 00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:05,000 Speaker 2: what they call it triangulation. He'll he'll find somebody that's 359 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:08,560 Speaker 2: not an enemy or whatever, it's somebody that they both know. 360 00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:12,240 Speaker 2: But then he'll go, look, I think you're going crazy, 361 00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:14,639 Speaker 2: and I talked to Joe Blow and he agrees with me. 362 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:19,200 Speaker 2: You know, they use a third person to substantiate their 363 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:23,280 Speaker 2: bullshit and it's probably not even true. I mean, he 364 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:26,520 Speaker 2: probably Joe Blo probably said a word, but he'll utilize that. 365 00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:30,480 Speaker 2: Or or they'll turn around and get somebody close to you, 366 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:33,560 Speaker 2: you know, your mum, your dad. They'll charm them and 367 00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:35,160 Speaker 2: they'll go, look, I have to talk to your dad, 368 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:37,120 Speaker 2: and you know he's thinking the same as me, you're 369 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:39,439 Speaker 2: not really quite right in the head. And the reason 370 00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:44,600 Speaker 2: why that happens is because all this craziness and an 371 00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:51,000 Speaker 2: argument with a narcissist is traumatic, because he'll say, for instance, 372 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:53,840 Speaker 2: he got laid home. Being laid home for a week 373 00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:58,680 Speaker 2: smells a perfume, and then you start an argument with 374 00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:01,200 Speaker 2: him and he'll turn around go, I know you're playing 375 00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:03,760 Speaker 2: up on me. You know, I know, why are you 376 00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:07,119 Speaker 2: trying to sabotage this relationship? And it'll turn into a 377 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:09,880 Speaker 2: big argument where you're the only person that's doing anything wrong. 378 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:14,239 Speaker 2: And I mean if you just that ramps up, and 379 00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:16,359 Speaker 2: it ramps up over years. And like I said in 380 00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:20,359 Speaker 2: my letter, I read and I agree that sometimes it 381 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:24,240 Speaker 2: takes seven times to leave that relationship because they tear 382 00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:27,480 Speaker 2: you apart to the point where you cannot make a 383 00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:30,600 Speaker 2: decision that you trust and you just don't know which 384 00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:33,320 Speaker 2: ways up. If you don't know anything about narcissist, if 385 00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:37,040 Speaker 2: this is a normal person in a normal relationship, you 386 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:41,119 Speaker 2: honestly think that you are going crazy. And one of 387 00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:43,400 Speaker 2: my sister in law rang me one day and she said, look, 388 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:45,160 Speaker 2: I think I need to go and get tested because 389 00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:48,520 Speaker 2: I'm going crazy. You know, at work, I put the 390 00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:51,480 Speaker 2: stapler down and I turn around and go, well, where's 391 00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:53,959 Speaker 2: the statement that it's absolutely gone? And things like that. 392 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:57,879 Speaker 2: But it turns out the partner that was exiting the 393 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:01,360 Speaker 2: relationship was doing all this so that she would think 394 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:03,600 Speaker 2: that she was crazy, so when they got to the 395 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:09,240 Speaker 2: divorce courts, he could wrong foot her. And turns out, 396 00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:12,520 Speaker 2: you know, her daughter and her son in law were 397 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:15,280 Speaker 2: top flight lawyers in Sydney. Wrong person to try and 398 00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:19,400 Speaker 2: scrow over and it didn't work, But that's what they do. 399 00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:24,520 Speaker 2: They will and with me, I didn't even know what 400 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:27,000 Speaker 2: was happening to me. But I was in this high 401 00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:31,919 Speaker 2: stay of trauma. And you've talked about it too, you know, cortisol, 402 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:38,080 Speaker 2: adrenaline just going through your system. And you know the 403 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:40,720 Speaker 2: last time I had a big you know, it was 404 00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:43,040 Speaker 2: an argument over he was mean to my child. He 405 00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:45,480 Speaker 2: got my sick child out of bed and was abusive 406 00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:47,720 Speaker 2: to him, and we ended up in such a fight 407 00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:50,919 Speaker 2: that he took a swing at me and hit me 408 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:54,639 Speaker 2: in the chest, pushed me in the chest, and we 409 00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:56,680 Speaker 2: were going to BALI the next day. See, they tend 410 00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:59,119 Speaker 2: to do these things around times when they can get 411 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:01,600 Speaker 2: away with them. But as it turned out, that push 412 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:05,080 Speaker 2: in the chest could have been a savior because I 413 00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:06,960 Speaker 2: ended up having a lump of fluid that turned out 414 00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:10,640 Speaker 2: to me my breast cancer. But had that not happened, 415 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:14,000 Speaker 2: who knows? Did he cause it? Did he? Did he 416 00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:15,280 Speaker 2: locate it? I don't know? 417 00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:20,760 Speaker 1: Okay. So what I want to know is how how 418 00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:26,760 Speaker 1: long were you in this relationship with with I was 419 00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:28,800 Speaker 1: going to say your psychopath. I'm just going to go 420 00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:30,840 Speaker 1: with that, with your psychopath. 421 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:33,280 Speaker 2: Four and a half years, okay. 422 00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:37,480 Speaker 1: And when did you going in did you have any 423 00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:43,719 Speaker 1: understanding of sociopthy psychopathy did you did you have any idea? 424 00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:46,399 Speaker 1: And when did you first think and when did you 425 00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:49,719 Speaker 1: first start to get some insight and understanding? 426 00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:53,120 Speaker 2: Not until after I left the relationship. 427 00:25:53,640 --> 00:26:00,360 Speaker 1: Oh really wow? And so what was happening? So tell 428 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:02,760 Speaker 1: us as much as you can that you know that 429 00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:05,919 Speaker 1: you're comfortable to share with us about those four and 430 00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:07,000 Speaker 1: a half years. 431 00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:10,920 Speaker 2: Well, I think I was that person that I said, 432 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:14,080 Speaker 2: you know, like I was a single mum. I had, 433 00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:17,080 Speaker 2: you know, not much of an opportunity to I've been 434 00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:22,240 Speaker 2: single for eight years, my kids were getting older. I 435 00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:24,879 Speaker 2: really loved the idea of being in a relationship. I 436 00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:33,000 Speaker 2: was really lonely, and I you know, like I clapped 437 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:35,280 Speaker 2: eyes on this guy and he was very good looking, 438 00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:40,479 Speaker 2: and and I think I pushed that relationship. I mean 439 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:42,600 Speaker 2: if I had, if I had been a different person 440 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,800 Speaker 2: with a bit more you know, self awareness, I don't 441 00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:48,960 Speaker 2: think I would have gone there. But I you know, 442 00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:53,919 Speaker 2: I was desperate, I was needy, and he was you know, 443 00:26:54,280 --> 00:27:00,639 Speaker 2: he just played that, you know a little bit. And 444 00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:04,720 Speaker 2: and then I made decisions that I should never you know, 445 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:08,280 Speaker 2: about my kids, and you know, like he just manipulated 446 00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:12,000 Speaker 2: situations and you just become a I think it's the 447 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:15,199 Speaker 2: same thing as a drug addiction. I really do think that. 448 00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:18,920 Speaker 2: I think if you looked at the physiology. 449 00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:23,360 Speaker 1: Oh for sure, we know that people people get addicted 450 00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:26,960 Speaker 1: to people like yeah, because you know, you think about this. 451 00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:29,360 Speaker 1: If you're around somebody and all of a sudden, you're 452 00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:32,680 Speaker 1: around that person and because you're near them, you're producing 453 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:36,840 Speaker 1: dopamine and serotonin and oxytocin and all that shit, Well, 454 00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:41,080 Speaker 1: that's I mean, that's biochemical reaction, right, that's that's your 455 00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:43,520 Speaker 1: brain lighting up like a Christmas tree. And when you're 456 00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:46,160 Speaker 1: not with that person it doesn't happen. Then when you're 457 00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:49,800 Speaker 1: with them, it happens. Yeah, one hundred percent. You're right. 458 00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:53,160 Speaker 1: It's it can be a physical addiction. 459 00:27:54,560 --> 00:28:00,160 Speaker 2: It was and and like I left him and and 460 00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:02,600 Speaker 2: you know, my kids were just begging me to leave, 461 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:06,919 Speaker 2: and I did leave him, and I couldn't function. I 462 00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:11,159 Speaker 2: was really ill. It was like I had withdrawals. I 463 00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:16,280 Speaker 2: couldn't stop thinking about anything to you know, I had anxiety. 464 00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:20,199 Speaker 2: I had all the things that you would expect of 465 00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:21,639 Speaker 2: withdrawing from a drug. 466 00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:26,200 Speaker 1: Wow, that is amazing. And so did you go back? 467 00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:32,520 Speaker 2: I did? I did go back and my kids. I 468 00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:35,760 Speaker 2: lost my kids over it. One kid went in one direction, 469 00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:44,480 Speaker 2: one and the other and I just yeah, I just thought. 470 00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:47,280 Speaker 2: And when I went back, it was like probably a 471 00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:52,960 Speaker 2: junkie jumping into a whole pile of heroin. I was 472 00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:57,000 Speaker 2: just like, oh my god, I've got it back, you know. 473 00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:00,440 Speaker 2: And I mean this guy had me down on the 474 00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:04,800 Speaker 2: ground with his hands around my throat at one stage, 475 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:11,600 Speaker 2: and there was just no way up. I didn't know 476 00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:15,400 Speaker 2: which way was up. I was desperately addicted in a drug, 477 00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:21,080 Speaker 2: a drugged fuelled scenario. Just to add on to that, 478 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:24,880 Speaker 2: I drive past that guy's house. He lives about three 479 00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:27,680 Speaker 2: doors down from my daughter. I see him three or 480 00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:30,320 Speaker 2: four times a week. He sometimes stops and chats to me. 481 00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:35,400 Speaker 2: There is no addiction going on. There not a feeling, 482 00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:40,760 Speaker 2: not an ounce of feeling or desire to. There's not 483 00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:46,880 Speaker 2: even any intense feeling of dislike. It's just a black line. 484 00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:50,520 Speaker 1: It's such an interesting analogy because it is like, you know, 485 00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:55,800 Speaker 1: some people who use or who are addicted to, whether 486 00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:58,320 Speaker 1: it's gambling or whether it's drugs, or whether it's booze 487 00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:00,760 Speaker 1: or whether it's you know, there's a bunch things, but 488 00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:04,080 Speaker 1: eventually they get to the point where their life is 489 00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:10,040 Speaker 1: good without that, which is, you know, thankfully. How long 490 00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:13,240 Speaker 1: do you think it, like, did you leave him, go 491 00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:15,800 Speaker 1: back to him, and then leave him and go back 492 00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:17,680 Speaker 1: again or was it just the once. 493 00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:23,640 Speaker 2: I left and went back and then and then after 494 00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:26,320 Speaker 2: you know, when I when he took a big swing 495 00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:29,040 Speaker 2: at me, if I hadn't have moved my face back, 496 00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:31,160 Speaker 2: I moved sort of stepped back, and it was in 497 00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:34,960 Speaker 2: front of my two kids, and his knuckles grazed my face, 498 00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:37,560 Speaker 2: and I think he would have probably killed me had 499 00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:42,480 Speaker 2: I not avoided that, because he's a big bricky and bricklayer, 500 00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:47,240 Speaker 2: that's four and he you know, if he had connected, 501 00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:48,920 Speaker 2: I would have been seriously injured. 502 00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:54,160 Speaker 1: So you never went to the police. She never did anything. 503 00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:57,760 Speaker 2: Yes, saying yeah. I then went to the violence court 504 00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:05,120 Speaker 2: and I was about to take out violence restraining order 505 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:12,480 Speaker 2: and also having charged with assault. They appointed me a 506 00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:16,200 Speaker 2: counselor in the violence court and then local women's health. 507 00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:25,200 Speaker 2: He talked me out of putting charges on him, but 508 00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:30,440 Speaker 2: I commenced with my counselor, who I have today fifteen years. 509 00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:34,920 Speaker 2: We started and it was such. We started at a 510 00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:42,080 Speaker 2: point where I was completely physically, morally, everything bankrupt. And 511 00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:44,120 Speaker 2: then I went to see her the other day and 512 00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:49,080 Speaker 2: she cried because oh wow, it's just the contrast of 513 00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:54,240 Speaker 2: building a human being to the ultimate, you know, your 514 00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:58,040 Speaker 2: best version of yourself. And so with all the work 515 00:31:58,120 --> 00:31:59,960 Speaker 2: you talk about that you talk about, you've got to 516 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:00,680 Speaker 2: do the work. 517 00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:06,520 Speaker 1: I did the work, do you I don't. Firstly, everything 518 00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:09,800 Speaker 1: that happened to you was terrible. Shouldn't have happened. Nobody 519 00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:14,040 Speaker 1: should do that to you. No, do you do you 520 00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:20,440 Speaker 1: ever think I'm a No, I'm trying to question. I'm 521 00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:22,680 Speaker 1: trying to ask frame this carefully because I don't want 522 00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:25,440 Speaker 1: people to misinterpret what I'm saying. But do you ever 523 00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:30,040 Speaker 1: think what part did I play? Why? And No, you 524 00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:32,400 Speaker 1: didn't deserve it, and of course you shouldn't have done it, 525 00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:34,280 Speaker 1: and it's not your fault. That's not what I'm saying, 526 00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:38,320 Speaker 1: But I would I would think, fuck, how did I 527 00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:41,480 Speaker 1: not see this? How did I you know? Do you 528 00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:44,720 Speaker 1: ever think about that? And what advice would you give 529 00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:46,440 Speaker 1: yourself if you could go back? 530 00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:51,440 Speaker 2: I think about that all the time. I've actually put 531 00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:54,800 Speaker 2: it in my book Craig that it was one of 532 00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:58,280 Speaker 2: the most important things that ever happened to me. Because 533 00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:03,280 Speaker 2: it did. It highlighted that I do not have a 534 00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:10,320 Speaker 2: caring and loving relationship with myself. That I put another 535 00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:14,000 Speaker 2: human being in front of me and my children, and 536 00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:17,760 Speaker 2: there's something very wrong. There was something I knew that 537 00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:19,840 Speaker 2: there was stuff wrong. I mean, we've I had a 538 00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:23,200 Speaker 2: dodger childhood. There was all sorts of things involved in that, 539 00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:25,760 Speaker 2: and there were reasons why I was a bit needy. 540 00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:30,600 Speaker 2: But what was great is not great. But what was 541 00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:34,360 Speaker 2: the most important thing to come out of that is 542 00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:37,840 Speaker 2: it was a realization and self awareness of all the 543 00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:41,680 Speaker 2: things I played to put myself in that position. Every 544 00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:44,560 Speaker 2: decision I made with that position I had to own 545 00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:48,520 Speaker 2: and I had to you know, I had to be 546 00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:51,880 Speaker 2: aware of it. I had to teach my children that 547 00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:57,640 Speaker 2: I did this and apologize to them, and you know, 548 00:33:57,800 --> 00:33:59,960 Speaker 2: go on to the premise that when you know better, 549 00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:05,240 Speaker 2: you do better. So I've spent fifteen years learning how 550 00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:08,480 Speaker 2: to be better and do better, and I am better. 551 00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:14,000 Speaker 1: Wow. A couple of quick questions. So you and your 552 00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:15,720 Speaker 1: kids are good now, I hope. 553 00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:18,279 Speaker 2: Oh that's what I went to see Jill about. And 554 00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:23,160 Speaker 2: I just said, Sarah called me Mama the other day. 555 00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:24,879 Speaker 2: You know I was doing. She's got a new little 556 00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:28,279 Speaker 2: baby and she only lives close to me, and she said, 557 00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:31,360 Speaker 2: oh thanks Mama, and just that little thing. You know, 558 00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:33,480 Speaker 2: it's just taken a lot of years for that to happen. 559 00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:36,279 Speaker 2: And and Mitch, you know, you know the dude with 560 00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:38,879 Speaker 2: the West Coast Eagles top. He used to always tell them. 561 00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:40,719 Speaker 1: I've met MITCHI came to a camp. Yep. 562 00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:44,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, So Mitchell's in an amazing place. He's in a 563 00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:47,040 Speaker 2: growth period and he's gone through a bit, but he's 564 00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:51,799 Speaker 2: like comes in and has those deep, meaningful conversations. And 565 00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:54,840 Speaker 2: both my ca and I've like both my kids really 566 00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:59,360 Speaker 2: disrespected me a little bit, think that I was just hopeless. 567 00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:02,520 Speaker 2: But I've just taken all my super and built like 568 00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:06,319 Speaker 2: what I call Hotel TLC on my property here. It's 569 00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:08,200 Speaker 2: seven hundred and twenty eight square met is. So I've 570 00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:10,640 Speaker 2: built in a granny flat. I've got a studio apartment, 571 00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:14,360 Speaker 2: and I got an Airbnb and it's called Hotel TLC. 572 00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:17,399 Speaker 2: And my ratings on booking dot com are like I've 573 00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:20,799 Speaker 2: got an award, a travel award, because they're nine point 574 00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:24,200 Speaker 2: one out of ten and my Airbnb is getting four 575 00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:26,279 Speaker 2: point nine out of five and I got a one 576 00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:30,359 Speaker 2: hundred dollars in SuperHost award and I'm loving. I mean, 577 00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:31,840 Speaker 2: this is what I'm meant to do. And you know, 578 00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:34,680 Speaker 2: the people that come through here, a lot of them 579 00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:38,080 Speaker 2: are drawn to me, just like this little spot opened 580 00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:41,759 Speaker 2: up today. Yeah, the people who come to stay with 581 00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:48,360 Speaker 2: me quite often leave with something important and something grounding. 582 00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:53,480 Speaker 1: Well, you have beautiful energy and you have really beautiful intentions, 583 00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:56,279 Speaker 1: so that matters, and that makes a difference. So I 584 00:35:56,320 --> 00:36:00,440 Speaker 1: want to know, she said earlier, Hold fuck this up, 585 00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:02,560 Speaker 1: so correct me if I get it wrong. But something 586 00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:05,080 Speaker 1: like it's good that I'm in a place now where 587 00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:08,400 Speaker 1: I love me and I'm happy to be just me. 588 00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:11,200 Speaker 1: I'm happy to be not alone, but happy to be 589 00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:13,359 Speaker 1: single because you're not alone because you've got friends and 590 00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:20,200 Speaker 1: family and kids and grandkid. Now, congrats. Is the door 591 00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:23,759 Speaker 1: open for a I know you're not looking, but is 592 00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:26,680 Speaker 1: the door open for a relationship? Or is like not 593 00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:29,400 Speaker 1: fuck that I don't trust them or I don't trust myself. 594 00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:34,880 Speaker 2: No, I really do trust myself. I have no qualms 595 00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:39,759 Speaker 2: about that. But my growth and on purpose, like I 596 00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:42,160 Speaker 2: listen to you, I do a lot of other things, 597 00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:45,600 Speaker 2: and I pick a topic each year and grow into that. 598 00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:51,239 Speaker 2: This year it's you know, last year it was la boundaries, 599 00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:55,600 Speaker 2: you know, and even me just learning to turn around 600 00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:58,480 Speaker 2: and saying no, I'm sorry, that's not happening, or no 601 00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:03,560 Speaker 2: I can't, or no you won't, and especially running an airbnb, 602 00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:06,000 Speaker 2: you know, like I have to be tough on people. 603 00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:11,680 Speaker 2: And so each year I'm I'm giving myself a challenge. 604 00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:15,239 Speaker 2: And because I'm growing, I kind of feel that even 605 00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:17,520 Speaker 2: if I met somebody at the beginning of the year, 606 00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:22,040 Speaker 2: by the end of the year, id outgrowth and look, 607 00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:27,200 Speaker 2: if the right person came along and we could have 608 00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:31,400 Speaker 2: interesting conversations. I did quiz, so I've got a great 609 00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:35,000 Speaker 2: quiz tribe, so you know, I'm really interested in facts 610 00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:37,640 Speaker 2: and figures and crazy stuff. And if I had a 611 00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:42,120 Speaker 2: person that came along that was a kindred spirit, then 612 00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:46,680 Speaker 2: of course, and I don't feel mistrusting. I feel so 613 00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:50,279 Speaker 2: much confidence in myself and also with my boundaries that 614 00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:54,680 Speaker 2: if I turned around and met somebody today and their 615 00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:59,760 Speaker 2: behavior wasn't appropriate, I would just turn around and say, 616 00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:04,919 Speaker 2: I'm sorry, that's not good enough, goodbye. Whereas way back 617 00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:08,560 Speaker 2: when then, when I attracted a narcissist, it was like, oh, okay, 618 00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:14,279 Speaker 2: I'm really sorry. You know, like people pleaser, and that's 619 00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:16,440 Speaker 2: what all says in a book, you know, the amount 620 00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:19,280 Speaker 2: of people who cancer are people pleases are amazing. 621 00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:23,640 Speaker 1: And I think that you made a really good point 622 00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:26,960 Speaker 1: before and you said something like you feel like the 623 00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:32,520 Speaker 1: trauma from the trauma that you'd been through caused you cancer. 624 00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:37,160 Speaker 1: And you know, the thing is that like stress and 625 00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:42,839 Speaker 1: anxiety and overthinking and depression, while we kind of put 626 00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:46,279 Speaker 1: those in the psychological and emotional baskets, there's a very 627 00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:51,719 Speaker 1: real physiological consequence to all of those things. And we 628 00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:57,439 Speaker 1: know now like that things like isolation and loneliness, which 629 00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:00,560 Speaker 1: is a form of trauma. It's not the traditional trauma 630 00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:05,799 Speaker 1: we think about, but isolation, loneliness, disconnection like these have 631 00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:08,800 Speaker 1: an impact on our immune system. These have an impact 632 00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:12,960 Speaker 1: on our physical health. These have an impact on our 633 00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:17,360 Speaker 1: lifespan and health span. And in the old days, I 634 00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:22,480 Speaker 1: would only talk about you know, exercise and sleep and food, 635 00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:26,200 Speaker 1: and you know, maybe every now and then about anxiety. 636 00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:30,480 Speaker 1: But these days I'm talking a lot about the power 637 00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:38,920 Speaker 1: of love, kindness, social connection, intimacy, you know, be that 638 00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:42,279 Speaker 1: romantic or not, or just being very close feeling like 639 00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:46,640 Speaker 1: you belong, feeling valued, feeling seen, feeling loved, being loved, 640 00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:50,360 Speaker 1: feeling safe, like all of these things that you wouldn't 641 00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:54,360 Speaker 1: compare to vegetables and bloody jogging, but in many ways 642 00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:58,680 Speaker 1: they're more important for our physical health then whether or 643 00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:00,560 Speaker 1: not we've been to the gym in the life. And 644 00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:02,320 Speaker 1: this is coming from a bloke who goes to the 645 00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:03,120 Speaker 1: gym every day. 646 00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:07,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely. And I remember this is something that you 647 00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:10,120 Speaker 2: always say. I mean, when we started off this work 648 00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:13,120 Speaker 2: with Jill, she said, well, you need to develop self 649 00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:15,279 Speaker 2: love and self worth. And I remember saying, can you 650 00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:18,320 Speaker 2: tell me which shop I can buy that apply? Because 651 00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:20,719 Speaker 2: I don't know where to get that. But what you've 652 00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:24,480 Speaker 2: talked about along, and this is definitely where how I 653 00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:27,520 Speaker 2: got it, is that when you live in alignment with 654 00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:32,000 Speaker 2: your beliefs, when that's how your self esteem grows. Every 655 00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:37,399 Speaker 2: time you make a decision that is for yourself or 656 00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:39,920 Speaker 2: the right decision, you know, it's quite easy. You know, 657 00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:42,279 Speaker 2: you talk about a lot, do the right thing, do 658 00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:45,200 Speaker 2: the wrong thing. You know, if you talk about doing 659 00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:49,279 Speaker 2: the right thing and then you do the right thing, 660 00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:52,040 Speaker 2: and it's taken a long time, It's taken a good 661 00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:56,760 Speaker 2: ten years because I now live in alignment with my beliefs, 662 00:40:56,760 --> 00:41:03,680 Speaker 2: which are family orientated, which are being myself. You know, 663 00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:07,120 Speaker 2: I don't apologize for you know, not you know, being 664 00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:11,800 Speaker 2: somebody not seeing myself. So it's like really quite funny. 665 00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:14,880 Speaker 2: Like back in those days, in the middle of that relationship, 666 00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:19,400 Speaker 2: I was absolutely wired. It would be a good way 667 00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:24,200 Speaker 2: to put it, totally wired, like high alert and like 668 00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:29,319 Speaker 2: they talk about walking on eggshells, and that's exactly what 669 00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:35,040 Speaker 2: anybody a toxic narcissistic relationship is. And I was wired 670 00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:39,439 Speaker 2: twenty four seven. Now I am so calm and chill 671 00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:42,680 Speaker 2: that even if I have a bad thought, I have 672 00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:44,480 Speaker 2: to sit down and have a good talk to myself 673 00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:48,120 Speaker 2: and my mantra. Like when we did all the renovations, 674 00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:51,879 Speaker 2: which most people find very stressful, I had I man, 675 00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:54,759 Speaker 2: I'd project managed it, and the mantra on the job 676 00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:59,680 Speaker 2: was nobody died unless somebody dies. I'm not going to 677 00:41:59,719 --> 00:42:03,239 Speaker 2: worry because we're a week late. No one's going to 678 00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:05,800 Speaker 2: die if I don't get this done. 679 00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:14,319 Speaker 1: Do you think that for it's harder for women in 680 00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:20,160 Speaker 1: that women and I'm generalizing here more empathetic, I think 681 00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:23,440 Speaker 1: naturally more like most people that listen to my show Women, 682 00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:26,239 Speaker 1: most people that come to my events of women. And 683 00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:29,160 Speaker 1: you know this is not an idea or this is 684 00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:32,319 Speaker 1: not a stab in the dark. I mean, I've got 685 00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:35,520 Speaker 1: lots of data and lots of evidence to say that. Well, 686 00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:39,759 Speaker 1: in my experience, my anecdotal experience, is that a lot 687 00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:43,400 Speaker 1: of women think way more about their feelings and expressing 688 00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:46,160 Speaker 1: their feelings and their mental and emotional health, and they're 689 00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:49,680 Speaker 1: more up talking about it and whether or not they 690 00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:53,759 Speaker 1: are inherently kinder or they just act that as in, 691 00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:57,840 Speaker 1: they just express it more than men do. I feel 692 00:42:57,880 --> 00:43:01,600 Speaker 1: like women can be because of all of those things, 693 00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:06,400 Speaker 1: they can be more likely to be a people pleaser. Yeah, 694 00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:08,880 Speaker 1: and so what's And I know this is just you 695 00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:10,840 Speaker 1: and me having a chat, and you're not a clinician, 696 00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:15,160 Speaker 1: and neither am I really, but what's your advice for 697 00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:20,880 Speaker 1: people who are fucking lifelong people pleases, chronic people pleasers, 698 00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:24,280 Speaker 1: which you probably were? And I reckon even in my life, 699 00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:27,480 Speaker 1: I've been not a chronic people pleaser, but I always 700 00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:31,319 Speaker 1: wanted everyone to like me, and so I compromised a bit, 701 00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:33,640 Speaker 1: you know, and I did dumb shit because I wanted to. 702 00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:36,960 Speaker 1: I didn't want anyone to not like me because I 703 00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:37,799 Speaker 1: was insecure. 704 00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:42,400 Speaker 2: What's your advice, Well, when you are in that state, 705 00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:48,040 Speaker 2: you are shat and you are empty. And where I 706 00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:51,120 Speaker 2: was a people pleaser and one of my girlfriends did 707 00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:53,200 Speaker 2: the best thing ever one day she said to me, 708 00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:56,040 Speaker 2: when I spend an hour with you, I've got to 709 00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:58,239 Speaker 2: go and have a cup of teina, lie down. You 710 00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:02,480 Speaker 2: know I was dragging her energy out of her because 711 00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:06,200 Speaker 2: I was so empty. Yes, and it's because you're empty 712 00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:10,799 Speaker 2: that you're people pleasing to try and feel yourself up. 713 00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:14,760 Speaker 2: But when you do the work and you become full, 714 00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:17,120 Speaker 2: you feel and this is like I know you are 715 00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:19,040 Speaker 2: as well. You must feel this as well. But when 716 00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:22,160 Speaker 2: you are fulfilled, not what we call happy, but when 717 00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:26,200 Speaker 2: you are fulfilled and joyous, you don't need to drag 718 00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:28,880 Speaker 2: that out of anybody. You can quite happily give it 719 00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:32,200 Speaker 2: to somebody, and you don't need to please anybody. You 720 00:44:32,239 --> 00:44:34,719 Speaker 2: can just you know, when you've got it filled up, 721 00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:37,759 Speaker 2: then it's the time to be a giver. And then 722 00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:40,880 Speaker 2: that then adds to your self esteem because you know, 723 00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:44,200 Speaker 2: you know, not everyone's going to like you, and you 724 00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:46,359 Speaker 2: may give to a whole pot of people that don't 725 00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:49,400 Speaker 2: even like you, But that's okay, because they might they 726 00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:51,759 Speaker 2: might give it to somebody else, and that's you know, 727 00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:55,439 Speaker 2: it's like playing it forward and and that's what that's 728 00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:59,680 Speaker 2: what fills you up, and that's what makes you feel whole. 729 00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:04,920 Speaker 2: And you'll never ever ever get anything that you need 730 00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:09,280 Speaker 2: from another person. I really. I know that sounds weird, 731 00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:14,279 Speaker 2: but you just won't. And really, I kind of think 732 00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:16,839 Speaker 2: you've got no business being in a relationship until you 733 00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:21,200 Speaker 2: have filled yourself up, because I don't think it's a 734 00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:24,200 Speaker 2: fair relationship. I think that if two people were just 735 00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:28,239 Speaker 2: needing off each other, I don't think that's healthy. I 736 00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:32,360 Speaker 2: think that two people who are fully present in themselves 737 00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:35,080 Speaker 2: and love themselves got the best bet of making a 738 00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:36,520 Speaker 2: go at things well. 739 00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:41,840 Speaker 1: I think also, yeah, I think also some people, Oh god, 740 00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:46,839 Speaker 1: I'm so careful that I know you can tell I 741 00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:49,399 Speaker 1: get a few emails. Okay, this is what I think. 742 00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:54,480 Speaker 1: Fucking I think some people, men and women see things 743 00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:58,480 Speaker 1: like marriage as a solution to a problem. Right now, 744 00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:01,640 Speaker 1: I'm not saying marriage is bad or being in a relation. 745 00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:04,399 Speaker 1: You know, my last fucked, I'm fucked. All I need 746 00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:06,960 Speaker 1: is to be in a relationship. No for God's sake, 747 00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:10,520 Speaker 1: that's the last thing you need to figure you the 748 00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:14,640 Speaker 1: fuck out before you take all that emotional psychological bullshit 749 00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:21,040 Speaker 1: into someone else's energy. Feel it's like no, no, like 750 00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:24,239 Speaker 1: that person is not going to fix you, solve you, 751 00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:28,320 Speaker 1: or save you. And this is the And I think also, 752 00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:34,480 Speaker 1: I think because some people panic about not having someone 753 00:46:35,600 --> 00:46:40,000 Speaker 1: and so then they lower their standards and then it's like, wow, 754 00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:46,240 Speaker 1: well he she whatever. They you know, they tick enough boxes, 755 00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:50,239 Speaker 1: and it's like if they meet certain criteria or you know, 756 00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:54,239 Speaker 1: they're kind of in the ballpark, whereas there's no you know, 757 00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:58,360 Speaker 1: and I'm not saying that's the majority, but that definitely happens. 758 00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:02,080 Speaker 1: It's not like, oh my god, God, absolutely and besotted 759 00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:05,560 Speaker 1: head over heels, I love this person. No, they're single. 760 00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:09,080 Speaker 1: I'm single and I'm thirty seven, so fucking let's roll 761 00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:14,360 Speaker 1: the dice, ticken yeah, well yeah, or even just I 762 00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:17,799 Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know. But having said that, the 763 00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:20,680 Speaker 1: fuck do I know? I'm sixty and single. I'm a 764 00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:24,839 Speaker 1: fucking idiot. And also, there's a few relationships that I've 765 00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:27,680 Speaker 1: seen get together and I thought not a chance, and 766 00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:31,360 Speaker 1: I was wrong, So don't listen to me. Did you 767 00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:32,760 Speaker 1: say you're writing another book? 768 00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:36,839 Speaker 2: No, I didn't. I didn't say I was, but I 769 00:47:36,920 --> 00:47:41,240 Speaker 2: really do feel I should. I think that's on the cards. 770 00:47:41,320 --> 00:47:44,359 Speaker 2: I think my big goal this year was with all 771 00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:48,359 Speaker 2: my vision board, was a trip to the UK to 772 00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:52,640 Speaker 2: track down my heritage in tallow and County Carlo and Ireland. 773 00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:55,440 Speaker 2: So I just loved all that in I'm leaving on 774 00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:59,680 Speaker 2: the first of August and in doing England, Ireland, Scotland 775 00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:04,319 Speaker 2: over title of August with half with my girlfriend and 776 00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:08,600 Speaker 2: half are my aim. Wow, and I just because I'm 777 00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:11,720 Speaker 2: just cool to do it. I feel that it's going 778 00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:14,520 Speaker 2: to grow, you know, it's going to be some personal 779 00:48:14,520 --> 00:48:15,440 Speaker 2: growth involved in that. 780 00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:19,680 Speaker 1: I had. I have a mildly not amusing, funny but 781 00:48:19,760 --> 00:48:25,360 Speaker 1: interesting story, and that is I got contacted by a 782 00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:30,360 Speaker 1: lady who lives in I think over your side, I 783 00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:34,840 Speaker 1: think in Perth. I've got a feeling she was working 784 00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:40,120 Speaker 1: in the minds anyway. She was Irish, is Irish and 785 00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:43,200 Speaker 1: it was a while ago now, it's like maybe six 786 00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:46,359 Speaker 1: years ago, maybe just a little bit before COVID and 787 00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:50,319 Speaker 1: I didn't know, but I had this whole group of 788 00:48:50,360 --> 00:48:54,200 Speaker 1: people in Ireland that followed my stuff and were quiet, 789 00:48:54,239 --> 00:48:57,319 Speaker 1: and they had a Facebook page and they were this 790 00:48:57,440 --> 00:48:59,640 Speaker 1: whole group and it was big. It was like one 791 00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:02,960 Speaker 1: hundred of people and they would talk about my my 792 00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:06,160 Speaker 1: all my shit, right, which was lovely, which was lovely. 793 00:49:06,239 --> 00:49:09,839 Speaker 1: And anyway, that Irish lady from Wa reached out and said, 794 00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:12,880 Speaker 1: what would it take, like how much would we have 795 00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:15,160 Speaker 1: to pay to get you to one? Are you're interested? 796 00:49:15,200 --> 00:49:17,560 Speaker 1: And to how much would we have to pay to 797 00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:21,359 Speaker 1: get you to come to Ireland and talk to our 798 00:49:21,640 --> 00:49:25,400 Speaker 1: essentially our Craigarp group, Right, And I'm like, one, that's 799 00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:31,360 Speaker 1: completely gorgeous. I so much love that. And two my 800 00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:35,000 Speaker 1: mum's mum her name was Molly Malone, right, and so 801 00:49:35,120 --> 00:49:37,880 Speaker 1: I have this, Yeah, so I have this. I'm like 802 00:49:38,520 --> 00:49:43,080 Speaker 1: one eighth Irish And anyway, I said, just pay for 803 00:49:43,160 --> 00:49:46,680 Speaker 1: my expenses and I'll obviously you know that's still going 804 00:49:46,719 --> 00:49:49,799 Speaker 1: to cost them, but I said, just pay all my bill, 805 00:49:49,960 --> 00:49:52,640 Speaker 1: like pay the airfare, pay their com whatever, and I'll 806 00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:56,120 Speaker 1: do the talk for free. So you know, so I'll 807 00:49:56,200 --> 00:49:58,920 Speaker 1: fly over, I'll make zero dollars, but I'll get to 808 00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:03,360 Speaker 1: see where my roots are from. Anyway, I went to 809 00:50:03,400 --> 00:50:07,040 Speaker 1: this little place called Tullamore shout out to the people 810 00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:09,879 Speaker 1: in Tullamore. Oh my god. You know, like I've been 811 00:50:10,160 --> 00:50:12,239 Speaker 1: I've been to a lot of places, like a lot 812 00:50:12,280 --> 00:50:15,239 Speaker 1: of countries, a lot, and I've spoken in a lot 813 00:50:15,239 --> 00:50:20,920 Speaker 1: of places. And there was something energetically weird Tracy Lee 814 00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:26,799 Speaker 1: Connor about I genuinely felt and I didn't expect this, 815 00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:31,120 Speaker 1: so there was no like psychosomitic. I felt like I'd 816 00:50:31,160 --> 00:50:34,920 Speaker 1: been there before, and I felt like even though I 817 00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:38,160 Speaker 1: didn't know the people, I felt like I knew them 818 00:50:38,200 --> 00:50:40,600 Speaker 1: and they were the warmest people I've ever met anywhere 819 00:50:40,640 --> 00:50:44,879 Speaker 1: in the world, and so much so right Like it's 820 00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:47,960 Speaker 1: a small town, Tullamore. I think it's like ten thousand people. 821 00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:50,080 Speaker 1: I think it's like an hour and a half out 822 00:50:50,120 --> 00:50:54,880 Speaker 1: of Dublin, but people like I had at least a 823 00:50:54,960 --> 00:51:00,240 Speaker 1: dozen different people offer for me to stay with them, 824 00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:04,080 Speaker 1: Like I was like, and that asked me where I'm staying, 825 00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:05,839 Speaker 1: and I said, Oh, I'm staying at you know, the 826 00:51:06,200 --> 00:51:08,120 Speaker 1: whatever hotel And they're like, oh, you want to be 827 00:51:08,200 --> 00:51:10,879 Speaker 1: doing that, You'll be staying with us. Oh, you'd be coming, 828 00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:13,160 Speaker 1: you'd be staying with us. You won't be standing there, No, 829 00:51:13,680 --> 00:51:17,759 Speaker 1: can't be doing that. And I'm like, like they were 830 00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:20,399 Speaker 1: so nice. I'm like, I'm definitely not coming and staying 831 00:51:20,440 --> 00:51:22,680 Speaker 1: in your house, but it would freak me out to 832 00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:26,799 Speaker 1: Oh but fuck, it was a fun trip and the 833 00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:28,720 Speaker 1: nice Oh. 834 00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:30,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, through that way. 835 00:51:30,480 --> 00:51:33,720 Speaker 1: You'll love it. You'll you'll dig it all right, going. 836 00:51:33,640 --> 00:51:36,960 Speaker 2: Right through that way, So you'll have you done your 837 00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:37,920 Speaker 2: ancestry DNA. 838 00:51:39,680 --> 00:51:40,759 Speaker 1: No, I should do it. 839 00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:43,000 Speaker 2: I should do it. I thought I was only a 840 00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:45,319 Speaker 2: little bit about twenty five percent Irish. Turns out I'm 841 00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:46,160 Speaker 2: fifty four percent. 842 00:51:47,280 --> 00:51:50,279 Speaker 1: Wow, that's you and I could be bloody related. Who 843 00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:54,120 Speaker 1: knows tell people how to find you, follow you by 844 00:51:54,160 --> 00:51:55,400 Speaker 1: your book all that stuff. 845 00:51:56,040 --> 00:51:58,960 Speaker 2: Oh my god, you know something I've COVID got me. 846 00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:01,239 Speaker 2: I've done nothing in the book under the bed. I've 847 00:52:01,320 --> 00:52:04,279 Speaker 2: just turned around and turned into a hermit and I've 848 00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:07,520 Speaker 2: got to change that. But you know, tl t LC 849 00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:11,160 Speaker 2: one six zero two at live dot com dot au 850 00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:12,960 Speaker 2: about the only way to get in touch with me 851 00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:15,600 Speaker 2: or I'm on Facebook. 852 00:52:15,719 --> 00:52:17,759 Speaker 1: All right, And if you really want to get in 853 00:52:17,920 --> 00:52:21,000 Speaker 1: touch with Tracy, email me via the site info at 854 00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:24,960 Speaker 1: craigharper dot net and we'll make sure that she gets 855 00:52:25,320 --> 00:52:28,520 Speaker 1: forward that email to her. Hey, thanks for sending me 856 00:52:28,600 --> 00:52:32,279 Speaker 1: an email today and thanks for that. I feel like 857 00:52:32,360 --> 00:52:34,399 Speaker 1: you and I were all over the place in that chat, 858 00:52:34,440 --> 00:52:36,040 Speaker 1: but I feel like it's okay. 859 00:52:37,120 --> 00:52:39,560 Speaker 2: I think that that's just that's who we are. 860 00:52:40,280 --> 00:52:43,560 Speaker 1: It's like two dogs with three dicks, just all over 861 00:52:43,600 --> 00:52:46,680 Speaker 1: the shop. Very excited, very excited me. 862 00:52:46,719 --> 00:52:48,080 Speaker 2: I get there in the end. I've got to lean 863 00:52:48,120 --> 00:52:49,880 Speaker 2: into my strengths. 864 00:52:49,840 --> 00:52:52,799 Speaker 1: All right, stay there. We'll say you by affair, but thanks, Trace, 865 00:52:52,840 --> 00:52:54,640 Speaker 1: appreciate you no ways. 866 00:52:54,640 --> 00:52:55,240 Speaker 2: Thanks great