1 00:00:01,200 --> 00:00:04,720 Speaker 1: And the evil sister who's anguish, says, well, we have 2 00:00:04,720 --> 00:00:07,560 Speaker 1: a suffragette amongsters. We don't want women to vote here, 3 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:09,640 Speaker 1: and then she says to her, are you seeing that 4 00:00:09,720 --> 00:00:12,840 Speaker 1: Queen Victoria shouldn't have the rate to our powers? 5 00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:23,480 Speaker 2: From The Australian, this is the weekend edition of The Front. 6 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:29,400 Speaker 2: I'm Claire Harvey in cinemas right now. Is Downton Abbey 7 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:33,320 Speaker 2: the Grand Finale? It's the crescendo of a costume drama 8 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:35,960 Speaker 2: that has brought the cream of British theater to the 9 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:40,479 Speaker 2: screen and created one of the world's most beloved franchises. 10 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:44,400 Speaker 2: Downton Abbey is, I'll admit it, a bit of a soapie. 11 00:00:44,680 --> 00:00:45,400 Speaker 1: So is its. 12 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:50,120 Speaker 2: Companion show, HBO's blockbuster series The Gilded Age, which brings 13 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:54,400 Speaker 2: Edith Wharton's eighteen eighties New York to life in skin 14 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:58,440 Speaker 2: tight saturn and heaving bosoms, and has just been renewed 15 00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:04,840 Speaker 2: for a fourth season. These are immensely expensive, exquisitely realized productions, 16 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 2: and today, with my fellow superfan Richard Ferguson, we're looking 17 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:21,559 Speaker 2: at the creative powerhouse who made history sexy. Let's start 18 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:23,520 Speaker 2: with Julian Fellows, who is he So. 19 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:27,000 Speaker 1: Julian Fellows is a conservative member of the House of Laws. 20 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:31,800 Speaker 1: But he basically came to real prominence with the two 21 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:35,040 Speaker 1: thousand and one film Gosford Park, which had Michael Gambin 22 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:38,920 Speaker 1: as the kind of horrible lord who dies mysteriously, had 23 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:43,399 Speaker 1: Stephen Fry as the detective. It had Helen Mirren as 24 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:47,000 Speaker 1: a kind of a cold housekeeper. We're probably the most 25 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:50,240 Speaker 1: important character in the long term, even though she's just 26 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 1: a cameo, is Maggie Smith as the acerbic aristocrat who's 27 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:58,680 Speaker 1: there as a guest. And in that role you start 28 00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:00,480 Speaker 1: to get the germ of what we can called the 29 00:02:00,600 --> 00:02:04,560 Speaker 1: Julian Fellows universe, the Downton universe. Who wants Marvel universe? 30 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:06,200 Speaker 1: Who want a down in the universe. 31 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:10,840 Speaker 2: At the country house of Sir William mccoro. 32 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 1: The guests are wealthy. If I wanted coffee, I'd have 33 00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:14,600 Speaker 1: run for it. 34 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:18,880 Speaker 2: These seems he's got omes privilege. 35 00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:23,040 Speaker 1: So Gosford Park, written by Julian Fellows, really hones in 36 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 1: on that Upstairs Downstairs class drama which is a favorite 37 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:34,760 Speaker 1: of the British TV film scene, you know, including Upstairs 38 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:39,600 Speaker 1: Downstairs the actual show, and it's a lot darker than 39 00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:42,840 Speaker 1: what comes. And I think it's because Robert Altman, the 40 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:47,200 Speaker 1: great American director of films like Nashville and Mash is 41 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:50,560 Speaker 1: the director behind it, so he brings a cold, skeptical 42 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:56,040 Speaker 1: eye to this melodrama. But then a couple of years 43 00:02:56,080 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 1: later that Maggie Smith prototype in Gosford Park comes what 44 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:04,880 Speaker 1: we now know is The Dowager Accountants of Grantham as 45 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:09,640 Speaker 1: Violet Crawley and Downton Abbey comes out on ITV in 46 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:14,079 Speaker 1: Britain around the same time as a revival of Upstairs Downstairs, 47 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:16,080 Speaker 1: and it becomes a bit of a drama. You know 48 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:20,000 Speaker 1: what one is going to be the success. Many people 49 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:22,519 Speaker 1: for it be Upstairs Downstairs because Upstairs Downstairs in the 50 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 1: seventies was such a huge hit for the BBC, But 51 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:30,840 Speaker 1: Downtown Abbey just goes wild. People are in love with 52 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:35,280 Speaker 1: Maggie Smith. They are in love with Lady Mary. You know, 53 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 1: the haughty should be airess, but she's not Airest because 54 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:41,800 Speaker 1: women couldn't inherit the title. They become obsessed with her 55 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:44,880 Speaker 1: love affair with Matthew Crawley. They become obsessed with the 56 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:48,520 Speaker 1: servants like Anna and mister Bates and all of their dramas. 57 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:53,280 Speaker 1: It becomes a huge hit in America via PBS and 58 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:57,760 Speaker 1: Masterpiece Fader. Is it the best British television show in 59 00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:02,440 Speaker 1: terms of quality of the past twenty years? Probably not? 60 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 1: But is it the most watchable? Is it the most beloved? 61 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:09,360 Speaker 1: Does it leave the biggest legacy? I think so absolutely. 62 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:11,840 Speaker 2: I think it's a mad idea. 63 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:16,480 Speaker 1: There's nothing simpler the avoiding people you don't like, avoiding 64 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:18,440 Speaker 1: one's friends, that's the real test. 65 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:24,240 Speaker 2: Downton Abbey brought the Maggie Smith character to the center 66 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:28,440 Speaker 2: of really a drama about social change and the disruption 67 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:32,760 Speaker 2: of the ruling class, but turned it into a really 68 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:36,520 Speaker 2: delicious comedy with her as the central comic figure. And 69 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:39,520 Speaker 2: that's one of his tools, isn't it using theater actors 70 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:45,279 Speaker 2: to bring a layer of gravitas to television productions. 71 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 1: The other thing Claire about that comedy aspect of it 72 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:54,960 Speaker 1: is that the upstairs are not the villains and don't 73 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:58,360 Speaker 1: Nabi has got a lot of criticism for this because 74 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 1: it doesn't think that does anything wrong with the classes. 75 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:05,440 Speaker 1: The upstairs, Lord Grant from Lady Grant, from all those 76 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:11,279 Speaker 1: people have a very nice, quite paternal relationship with the 77 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:15,279 Speaker 1: staff who the almost sometimes talked to late children, and 78 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:19,280 Speaker 1: the staff are very grateful, you know, we're grateful to 79 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:22,080 Speaker 1: your ladyship. We're grateful to your lordship, and it can 80 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:23,239 Speaker 1: actually greet quite about. 81 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:26,599 Speaker 2: There's a layer of historical accuracy. So down to Babby said, 82 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:30,599 Speaker 2: in Yorkshire where my family's from, and one of my 83 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:34,279 Speaker 2: mother's aunts famously in our family history this is a 84 00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:38,160 Speaker 2: family who lived in council housing got a job in 85 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:43,040 Speaker 2: the Grand House, the nearby aristocratic mansion, and that was 86 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:47,280 Speaker 2: for my mother's family a huge triumph. You know the 87 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:50,360 Speaker 2: fact that a woman from their working class family had 88 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:53,760 Speaker 2: secured herself a job like that, and also the fact 89 00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:57,960 Speaker 2: that for women in that time, service was a relatively safe, 90 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:01,320 Speaker 2: relatively well paid sosi of income. 91 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:05,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true. The only person who really questions the 92 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:10,040 Speaker 1: system and disrupts the system is Tom, the Irish socialist chauffeur, 93 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:14,479 Speaker 1: and he runs away with Lady Sibyl. Spoiler alerts, the 94 00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:16,720 Speaker 1: show has been out for nearly twenty years, so like, guys, 95 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 1: get over it. Lady Sybil dies during childbirth, but Tom 96 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:25,360 Speaker 1: very quickly becomes a member of the family, and he 97 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:28,360 Speaker 1: might go around saying I don't believe in these kind 98 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:32,200 Speaker 1: of patriarchal class structures. I don't want people to call 99 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:35,560 Speaker 1: me Lord so and so. But then he very quickly, 100 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:38,360 Speaker 1: you know, in down n Abbey movie, marries one of 101 00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:40,120 Speaker 1: the servants who turns out is actually the heir to 102 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:42,240 Speaker 1: the fortune and just becomes with posh person and he 103 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:44,640 Speaker 1: just becomes a member of the family. And all these 104 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:49,120 Speaker 1: things are explored, for sure, But I think the fact 105 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:53,920 Speaker 1: that it doesn't lecture it doesn't say these people are 106 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:58,599 Speaker 1: baddies because they lived a different life. But I also 107 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:03,360 Speaker 1: think the fact that it doesn't disrupt people's ideas too 108 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:04,920 Speaker 1: much helps it. 109 00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 2: Although I would argue the whole show is about revolution. 110 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:16,400 Speaker 2: You know, it starts with a death, the news of 111 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 2: the Titanic sinking, which has killed the air presumptive to 112 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:23,240 Speaker 2: the Grantham title and the house which has disinherited the 113 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:24,280 Speaker 2: daughters of the family. 114 00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 1: Is it true what they're saying. I believe so, my lord. 115 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:31,560 Speaker 1: I'm afraid we'll know some people on it. I don't 116 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:33,360 Speaker 1: suppose there are any lists of survivors. 117 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 2: Yet that invites into the household the kind of middle 118 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:42,200 Speaker 2: class distant relatives who are now going to inherit instead, 119 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:46,720 Speaker 2: and then it's about the complete destruction of the world 120 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:51,160 Speaker 2: represented by Maggie Smith, isn't it. Everything changes from that 121 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:51,640 Speaker 2: moment on. 122 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:55,320 Speaker 1: I don't actually entirely agree with you, because while it's 123 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:59,000 Speaker 1: about revolution and things change, and you know, Lord Grantham 124 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:01,880 Speaker 1: can't quite handle it, and the cook keeps saying, why 125 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:03,960 Speaker 1: do I have to have a freezer? Can't I just 126 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:06,600 Speaker 1: keep things in the ass, And you know, the gorgeous 127 00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 1: lady gampt from whose American sort of says, you know, 128 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:11,960 Speaker 1: is there any part of the of the modern world, 129 00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:14,680 Speaker 1: Missus Padmore, that you don't want to see change? And 130 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:16,160 Speaker 1: she's like, well, it would like to get rid of 131 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:19,600 Speaker 1: the cossets, and that's very charming. But the thing about 132 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 1: the revolution is that it does not disrupt them one iota. 133 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 1: Life is slightly harder, but they still live in the 134 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:30,040 Speaker 1: big house and everybody still says, oh, we love you, 135 00:08:30,040 --> 00:08:33,520 Speaker 1: your lordship, we love you, like they're absolutely fine. Even 136 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:36,640 Speaker 1: in this grand finale which the trailers come out and 137 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 1: it's all kind of like they're saying goodbye, Lord Grant 138 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:43,840 Speaker 1: from saying goodbye, they don't say goodbye. Spoiler alert again, 139 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:46,240 Speaker 1: they don't say goodbye. They just move into Maggie Smith's 140 00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:50,320 Speaker 1: dower house because she's dead. It does not challenge the 141 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:53,800 Speaker 1: status quo whatsoever. The guilded Age is slightly different because 142 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 1: that does challenge the state as coo, because you've got 143 00:08:56,720 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 1: an old rich and a new rich. 144 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:05,960 Speaker 2: So let's connect these two shows, Downtown Abbey in the 145 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 2: Gilded Age. They both begin with a death. In the 146 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:10,560 Speaker 2: case of the Gilded Age, which is set in eighteen 147 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:13,480 Speaker 2: eighties New York, it's the news of the death of 148 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:18,280 Speaker 2: the wayward brother of the establishment van Ryn family that 149 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:21,679 Speaker 2: brings into the Van Ryn household in New York a 150 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:25,800 Speaker 2: young woman who challenges the family snobbery and is willing 151 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:28,719 Speaker 2: to do what the family will never do, which is 152 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:31,160 Speaker 2: embraced the nuvou reche who are coming up in New 153 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:35,040 Speaker 2: York City. Julian Fellows conceived it as almost like an 154 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 2: origin story for Downton Abbey. You know, how does an 155 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:41,720 Speaker 2: American marry into the British nobility. And in the Gilded 156 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:45,720 Speaker 2: Age we see the wealthy nouvau riche mother played by 157 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:49,960 Speaker 2: Carrie Kohn brilliantly Bertha Russell, plotting to marry her daughter 158 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:53,280 Speaker 2: to an English lord, but The Guilded Age. Would you 159 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:54,040 Speaker 2: call it a comedy? 160 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:56,120 Speaker 1: I think The Gilded Age is one of the funniest 161 00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:58,839 Speaker 1: shaws that's been on American television in years. 162 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:02,920 Speaker 2: Our brother has died, our brother with whom we have 163 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:05,520 Speaker 2: had no connection these many years. We should have gone 164 00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:07,160 Speaker 2: for the funeral anyway. 165 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:09,600 Speaker 1: It wasn't worth an uncomfortable day of travel to make 166 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:14,240 Speaker 1: sure Henry was dead. I mean Christine Baranski and Cynthia Nixon, 167 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 1: so they kind of take the roles of Maggie Smith 168 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:23,560 Speaker 1: and Penelope Wilton as the older women who are constantly bickering. 169 00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 1: So in Downton you've got Maggie Smith is the fearsome 170 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:33,360 Speaker 1: old dragon, and you've got Penelope Wilton as cousin Isabelle, who's, 171 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:35,440 Speaker 1: you know, the mother of Matthew. She's the middle class 172 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:38,400 Speaker 1: woman who's got an education, who's a nurse who's come 173 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:41,040 Speaker 1: into the family, and they kind of have this comedy role. 174 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:44,360 Speaker 1: In Gilded Age, you have these two sisters. So you 175 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:48,360 Speaker 1: have the married missus Van Ryan, who is Christine Baransky, 176 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:52,480 Speaker 1: and she is once again a fearsome dragon, but she's 177 00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:57,160 Speaker 1: much colder than Violet than named Maggie Smith. Christine Baransky 178 00:10:57,240 --> 00:10:59,480 Speaker 1: is so cold and mean most of the time, although 179 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:01,880 Speaker 1: she starts to up a bit in season three. And 180 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:05,560 Speaker 1: then you have you have them Cynthia and Nixon as 181 00:11:05,679 --> 00:11:12,120 Speaker 1: this very mousey, dowdy Spencer sister who's never you know, 182 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:15,480 Speaker 1: never been out the house. But what would happen to 183 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:18,400 Speaker 1: my poor little pumpkin surrounded by strangers? 184 00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:20,960 Speaker 2: You never know, they might be very kind to him. Oh, 185 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:25,600 Speaker 2: brilliant casting for her having come out of the Sex 186 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:28,960 Speaker 2: and the City universe as the sort of sexually rapacious Miranda. 187 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:34,920 Speaker 1: You couldn't get anybody further from Miranda than the woman 188 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:37,160 Speaker 1: who becomes Missus forty because of course she marries the 189 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:40,360 Speaker 1: reverend who dies in two episodes. But it's good because 190 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:42,679 Speaker 1: he leaves her the fortune because I've lost all the money. 191 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:45,400 Speaker 1: But they are wonderful because what he does through those 192 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:49,560 Speaker 1: older characters is explain how the world is changing, but 193 00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:53,400 Speaker 1: once again makes it familiar and safe. But it is 194 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:57,600 Speaker 1: slightly different because the challenge is apart from maybe Tom 195 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:00,760 Speaker 1: and Dalton Abbey, the challenge has really come from the 196 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:05,400 Speaker 1: internal characters, not from external forces. It's not there's a 197 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:08,000 Speaker 1: war on now, so we'd better think about whether Dalnton 198 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 1: can survive. 199 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:12,560 Speaker 2: I think there's a real feminist undertone to both of them. 200 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:15,120 Speaker 2: One of the big questions that they're trying to answer 201 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:17,600 Speaker 2: is what role should divorced women be allowed to have 202 00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 2: in society. That's also something that's explored in the new 203 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:23,559 Speaker 2: Downton Abbey movie. I think there's a real narrative here 204 00:12:23,559 --> 00:12:26,480 Speaker 2: about the growth of women's power. You know, that's what 205 00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:28,320 Speaker 2: we're going to see in the Downton Aby movie too. 206 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:31,440 Speaker 1: This is the thing is that in Downton n Aby one, 207 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:35,040 Speaker 1: Maggie Smith, who explains she's going to die soon, which 208 00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:38,640 Speaker 1: surprisingly she actually does die, says to worry, you will 209 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:41,920 Speaker 1: be the next me, and basically don't. Nabi is the 210 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:45,840 Speaker 1: story of how Lady Mary succeeds Maggie Smith and Hugh 211 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:49,240 Speaker 1: Bonneville who pleads Lord Grantham, And in the Frond movie, 212 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:51,840 Speaker 1: Lord Grantham says, that's you are in charge of the 213 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:55,880 Speaker 1: house now, it's not me anymore. And the guilded Age 214 00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:58,320 Speaker 1: is a lot like that. So Missus Russell is based 215 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:03,520 Speaker 1: on one of the great Vanderbilt matriarchs who was a suffragette. 216 00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:05,880 Speaker 1: And you obviously in the latest season you had that 217 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:10,880 Speaker 1: great conversation between Missus Russell and the evil sister of 218 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:13,520 Speaker 1: the duke who she's married or poor daughter off to, 219 00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:17,640 Speaker 1: and the evil sister who's English says, well, we have 220 00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:20,480 Speaker 1: a suffragette amongsters. We don't want women to vote here, 221 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:22,559 Speaker 1: And then she says to her, are you saying that 222 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:26,480 Speaker 1: Queen Victoria shouldn't have the right to our powers? You know, 223 00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:30,480 Speaker 1: she is a challenging figure. The other thing that's begged 224 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:33,280 Speaker 1: talking about the power the story of women and feminism 225 00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:35,839 Speaker 1: in the Gilded Age is that it also introduces race 226 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:38,080 Speaker 1: in a way that isn't really explored and downt nawby 227 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:41,400 Speaker 1: because of a completely different set of circumstances. 228 00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:46,559 Speaker 2: That's a great point when so many established franchises are 229 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:49,079 Speaker 2: just doing colorblind casting. So you see in the new 230 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:53,360 Speaker 2: season of wolf Hall, for example, Tudor courtiers are suddenly 231 00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:55,920 Speaker 2: black because they've realized they needed to find a way 232 00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:59,240 Speaker 2: to get some diversity in the cast. In the Gilded Age, 233 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:03,520 Speaker 2: what do you and Pillows has done. He's thoughtfully examine 234 00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 2: the black elite of New York at that time and 235 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:08,559 Speaker 2: the discrimination knife fist. 236 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:11,400 Speaker 1: Exactly and doesn't put them in a position of victimhood. 237 00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:14,920 Speaker 1: They have agency. It shows that at that time, at 238 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:17,920 Speaker 1: least in the North, there was wealth and it was used. 239 00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:21,680 Speaker 1: And it still explores racism. You know, when Peggy is 240 00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:24,000 Speaker 1: a journalist for a period of time, she goes down 241 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:27,000 Speaker 1: to the South and that kind of segregation there is explored, 242 00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:31,480 Speaker 1: but it is quite well done. I think the Gilded 243 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:35,960 Speaker 1: Age is more sophisticated than Doubt and when it comes 244 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:38,280 Speaker 1: to that, so Down to Nabby does have moments like that. 245 00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:42,640 Speaker 1: For example, Lady Rose, who is Lily James, who's in 246 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:45,040 Speaker 1: Doubt Nabby for about a couple of seasons. You know, 247 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:49,240 Speaker 1: she nearly runs away with an African American jazz singer, 248 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:53,800 Speaker 1: and then she marries a Jewish aristocrat, which is very 249 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:57,000 Speaker 1: controversial and everybody's trying to split up the marriage, but 250 00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:00,480 Speaker 1: it doesn't have that depth. What Doubt now he does 251 00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:04,280 Speaker 1: do very well is explore how difficult it was for 252 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:07,600 Speaker 1: gay people in that period of time, especially in Britain 253 00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:12,320 Speaker 1: in that post Oscar wild era, where gay people had 254 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:15,960 Speaker 1: often been you know, not talked about, but almost left alone. 255 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:21,680 Speaker 1: And then Oscar Wilde becomes such a huge furfeit when 256 00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 1: he's ultimately put in jail for his affair with Lord Bosey. 257 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:29,160 Speaker 1: It explores through the Footman, who is a villain for 258 00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:31,520 Speaker 1: a most of the party and has a huge redemption 259 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:34,960 Speaker 1: story in Down Nabby, the evil gay footman who becomes 260 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:38,760 Speaker 1: a hero in the end, explores how damaging and how 261 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:40,600 Speaker 1: difficult you know. At one point he tries he has 262 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:44,320 Speaker 1: to try hormone treatments, he tries to kill himself. Downton 263 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:46,520 Speaker 1: is very good at exploring that, and there's a little 264 00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:49,360 Speaker 1: bit of that in The Gilded Age with the gay, 265 00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:51,240 Speaker 1: dissolute son of Missus van Ryan. 266 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:02,240 Speaker 2: After the Brag how Julian Philo cracked the soap opera 267 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:21,640 Speaker 2: West End Broadway magic formula. Both of them have touches 268 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:25,440 Speaker 2: of serious drama and comedy, but also there's a soap 269 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:29,160 Speaker 2: opera kind of vibe, isn't there. I love how there's 270 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:32,160 Speaker 2: equal kind of weight given to who's going to be 271 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:34,920 Speaker 2: invited to the opening of the new opera house to 272 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:37,440 Speaker 2: someone who's just been run over in the street and 273 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:41,320 Speaker 2: left the holiday house to begay son who now has 274 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:43,880 Speaker 2: to explain why he's inheriting a holiday house from his 275 00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:44,480 Speaker 2: secret lover. 276 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:48,000 Speaker 1: Julian Fellows. There's two things he understands through his casting 277 00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:52,000 Speaker 1: of both shores and the way he constructors Britain has 278 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:56,440 Speaker 1: produced two great things for the world, theater and soap 279 00:16:56,480 --> 00:17:01,760 Speaker 1: operas Julian follows. He understands and how to do them 280 00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:05,399 Speaker 1: better than any American ever could. So he cast people 281 00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:09,200 Speaker 1: like Kelly O'Hara, it's a great Broadway star, multiple Tony 282 00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:13,840 Speaker 1: Award winner Audrey McDonald and plays Peggy's mum. She's the 283 00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:17,119 Speaker 1: greatest Broadway star I think of her generation. We've got 284 00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:19,479 Speaker 1: to talk about Kerry Kohon and Carrie Couon. I mean, 285 00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:22,600 Speaker 1: Carry Kuon is just basically Rose Hbo whether it be 286 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:24,879 Speaker 1: White lord As, whether it be the leftovers. 287 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:34,359 Speaker 2: I'm glad you have a beautiful face, and I'm glad 288 00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:35,080 Speaker 2: that you have a. 289 00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:41,199 Speaker 1: Beautiful life, and I'm just happy to be at the table. 290 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:47,680 Speaker 1: But he uses fear actors really well. But he knows 291 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:49,919 Speaker 1: how to do a soap opera like think of in 292 00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:54,280 Speaker 1: Downton Anna's sexual assault and mister Bates. Will he end 293 00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:57,240 Speaker 1: up in jail for killing the rapist or not? Think 294 00:17:57,359 --> 00:18:00,760 Speaker 1: of Lady Edith and the baby and they have to 295 00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:03,160 Speaker 1: go and get the baby, and then she doesn't want 296 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:07,640 Speaker 1: the baby, and then she runs away and Lady Grantham 297 00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:10,280 Speaker 1: and the Dowag accounts are like come. 298 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:11,159 Speaker 2: Back, bring the baby. 299 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:14,840 Speaker 1: We can bring up the baby. In Gilded Age season three, 300 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:19,200 Speaker 1: you know, finally our two lovebirds get together from across 301 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:21,640 Speaker 1: the street, the niece of Missus Van Ryan. 302 00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:24,360 Speaker 2: Played by Meryl strapsto at Llowi's a Jacobson. 303 00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:27,640 Speaker 1: Louis or Jacobson and the incredibly good looking guy. 304 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:31,880 Speaker 2: Harry Richardson, the Australian hector who plays Larry Russell as he's. 305 00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:35,600 Speaker 1: They finally get together and then he goes to a 306 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:39,439 Speaker 1: gentleman's club you know, you know service by Harlot's. He 307 00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:42,600 Speaker 1: doesn't even you know, kiss And this another thing about 308 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:48,080 Speaker 1: both shows. They are wonderful at romance without doing sex. 309 00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:51,919 Speaker 1: There's lots of kissing and there's lots of romance, and 310 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:55,600 Speaker 1: you know, sometimes somebody's found in bed with someone. And then, 311 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:59,159 Speaker 1: of course, obviously in downt n Abbe, the Turkish diplomat 312 00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:00,840 Speaker 1: tries it on with Late Mary and then dies of 313 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:05,000 Speaker 1: a heart attack. But sex has talked about, but it's 314 00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:07,640 Speaker 1: never actually seen, and yet it gives it so much 315 00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:17,800 Speaker 1: more power. Do you mine? So did you get everything 316 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:22,480 Speaker 1: you wanted from this evening? Let's just say we are 317 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:27,119 Speaker 1: on our way, mister and missus Russell must be the 318 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:29,159 Speaker 1: sexiest couple in all of television. 319 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:31,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, the quivering of the wing of the. 320 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:33,639 Speaker 1: Bustles and mister Russell's. 321 00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:35,680 Speaker 2: Dinner jackets. 322 00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:40,399 Speaker 1: Yeah, he's so sexy, She's so sexy. They never take 323 00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:46,680 Speaker 1: their clothes off. He understands that gratuity and vulgarity does 324 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:54,000 Speaker 1: not equal romance. Good acting, good writing, chemistry, emotion. That 325 00:19:54,880 --> 00:20:00,399 Speaker 1: is what makes romance superior to more lude. Wheez of 326 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:01,080 Speaker 1: displaying that. 327 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:10,960 Speaker 2: Downton Abbey. The Grand Finale is in theaters now and 328 00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:14,800 Speaker 2: The Gilded Age is available for streaming. Richard Ferguson is 329 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:17,960 Speaker 2: the Australian's Canber Bureau chief. You can read his work 330 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:22,160 Speaker 2: anytime at the Australian dot com dot au. This episode 331 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:24,399 Speaker 2: of the Front was hosted by me Claire Harvey and 332 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:28,160 Speaker 2: produced by Jasper Leek, with help from lead Sammaglu. Thanks 333 00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:30,119 Speaker 2: for joining us on the Front this week. Our team 334 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:35,120 Speaker 2: also includes Kristin Amiot, Tiffany Dimack, Joshua Burton and Stephanie Coombs.