Speaker 1: I get a team. It's the bloody the project that you.
Speaker 1: I've been off. Well, you've had consistent podcasts because I
Speaker 1: recorded about four and Monday last week. But I've had
Speaker 1: a few days away from the mic. I feel refreshed.
Speaker 1: Life is good. I was just saying the young Robert,
Speaker 1: my fatigue, whatever the fuck that was, seems to have disappeared.
Speaker 1: And my brain's working, and my mind's working, my body
Speaker 1: seems to be complying. Things are good. How's all your
Speaker 1: stuff working over there, Robert?
Speaker 2: Oh, things are in massive locks. A lot of things
Speaker 2: going on. As we were talking before you hit the
Speaker 2: record button. I am not I'm doing a lot of podcasts.
Speaker 2: I'm just not posting them. I'm actually taking my podcast
Speaker 2: season or Craig.
Speaker 1: Oh, okay, well, good for you. How's your how's your energy?
Speaker 1: How's your brain? How are all those bits and pieces
Speaker 1: that kind of are required for your work? How are
Speaker 1: they functioning?
Speaker 2: I have not slapped a lek in two days. Like well,
Speaker 2: I think there's three brain cells in my brain that
Speaker 2: are working, and only two at a time because one
Speaker 2: naps while the other two take over. But yeah, it's
Speaker 2: been rough. So last night the cats were fighting all night,
Speaker 2: just just just knocking over tables. I was like, what
Speaker 2: is going on?
Speaker 1: Does How does somebody at your level, who has your
Speaker 1: level of responsibility in your job and is as smart
Speaker 1: as you not get any sleep? Can you not? Can
Speaker 1: you not find a solution to the cats? I can
Speaker 1: think of one, but it's probably inhumane. But other than that,
Speaker 1: can you not find a solution?
Speaker 2: Yeah? The first part of that solution is fuck off
Speaker 2: those those are my cats.
Speaker 1: Second, now, I was just gonna buy them little muzzles
Speaker 1: then type up their type up their feet at ten pm.
Speaker 2: Now it's it's the little one. I mean, he's getting
Speaker 2: to an age now where he's being a bit more rambunctious.
Speaker 2: So he'll just like put his paw on the old
Speaker 2: ones had when you sleep and just keep like antagonizing
Speaker 2: them like playfully, and just the older ones just like
Speaker 2: that's it. I've had about enough of this. But I
Speaker 2: don't know. I was not the one who was rolling
Speaker 2: around fighting all last night, so but you s.
Speaker 1: Up at the consequences. Hey, I want to talk to
Speaker 1: you today about something that I think about quite a bit.
Speaker 1: I don't know that we've ever spoken about it. I
Speaker 1: don't know what the I probably should have done a
Speaker 1: deep psychological kind of review of all of this, but
Speaker 1: I haven't. I'm just freestyling and ad livings and craigifying
Speaker 1: as we go. But I call it destination disappointment. That's
Speaker 1: not a real term. Well it is a real term
Speaker 1: in that I use it, but it's not a psychological
Speaker 1: construct or anything. Everybody, I'm sure there is a name
Speaker 1: for it, But so my definition is, you know, when
Speaker 1: you get where you wanted to go, you know, either literally,
Speaker 1: but more metaphorically or financially or professionally, or physically or relationally,
Speaker 1: you get to where you want to go. In other words,
Speaker 1: you reached your goal. You got to the top of
Speaker 1: the metaphoric mountain or the metaphoric peak on the way
Speaker 1: up the mountain, and you're not happy, you're not content.
Speaker 1: In fact, you got there, you achieved the thing, you lost,
Speaker 1: the weight, you got the raise, you built, the business,
Speaker 1: you got the qualification, you got the partner, and even
Speaker 1: though you set out to get the thing that you
Speaker 1: wanted to do or wanted to achieve, you're still not happy.
Speaker 1: You're still not and you had associated the achievement of
Speaker 1: that thing with happiness or at the very least contentment
Speaker 1: or joy or And it seems to be really common
Speaker 1: that even people that I've worked with where they've got
Speaker 1: of you know, the start of our relationship as client coach,
Speaker 1: what do you want to do? But you create change?
Speaker 1: Why are you here? What's the thing? Like? What's what
Speaker 1: lights you up? I just want to you know, I
Speaker 1: want to play sport at that level, or I want
Speaker 1: to lose that weight, or I want to build a business,
Speaker 1: or I want to have an online this, or I
Speaker 1: want to go I want to start a charity or
Speaker 1: whatever it is. And then over time, thanks to them,
Speaker 1: not me, but me coaching from the sidelines and them
Speaker 1: doing all the work, they get there or they get thereabouts,
Speaker 1: And very often is the emotional or psychological consequence of
Speaker 1: that long term happiness contentment or I've got a few theories.
Speaker 1: But before I do, what do you think that's about?
Speaker 1: Why do we find even when we get where we
Speaker 1: wanted to go? I mean, how many people do you'll
Speaker 1: shut up up to this? How many people of you
Speaker 1: and I met over the years who and I know
Speaker 1: this is very shallow, but that's the way the world works.
Speaker 1: A lot from the outside looking in you go, oh
Speaker 1: my god, you're so successful, or you're beautiful, or you're handsome,
Speaker 1: or you've got the best body, or you've got the
Speaker 1: best partner or and you know, in the middle of
Speaker 1: all of that achievement and success or beauty or wealth,
Speaker 1: they're probably less happier than the average.
Speaker 2: Well. I think that's what we're conditioned to believe. I've
Speaker 2: always been very suspicious. I think it's an absolute scam.
Speaker 2: I don't think that, and this just personally, I'll dive
Speaker 2: into this. I don't think having something or achieving something
Speaker 2: is where the reward is. And maybe it's cool for
Speaker 2: a couple of days, it's always in the pursuit. So
Speaker 2: look at it from an anecdotal level. Right now, if
Speaker 2: you're listening to this, ask yourself, what's the time in
Speaker 2: your life where you have a strong sense of nostalgia
Speaker 2: and memories, where you and your partner talk about, oh,
Speaker 2: remember when we were in this phase we were doing this,
Speaker 2: or your business partner could make oh remember when the
Speaker 2: business was first getting started. Odds are it's when you
Speaker 2: were on your way to somewhere. I had been living
Speaker 2: in a one bedroom flat and just couldn't really afford
Speaker 2: to fully furniture it. But you'll look back on that
Speaker 2: with nostalgia because you were building something, you were growing.
Speaker 2: So I think all of us have had that experience.
Speaker 2: Or it was something that involved learning, growth, deep alignment
Speaker 2: with something that was meaningful to you or the people
Speaker 2: you were with, maybe all the above, but it wasn't like, oh,
Speaker 2: it's about me getting that corner office. Because if it's
Speaker 2: about that corner office, the second you have that corner office,
Speaker 2: it no longer motivates, it no longer satisfies. Look at
Speaker 2: it from a psychological perspective, right that when you take
Speaker 2: a look at our you and needs, the second you
Speaker 2: achieve a need you fulfill it, another need pops up
Speaker 2: and you want to pursue that. So you could take
Speaker 2: a look at it from a neurobiological perspective, Are we
Speaker 2: really wired for having or are we wired for pursuing?
Speaker 2: Look at our whole dopamine ergic pathways. It's not about pleasure,
Speaker 2: it's not about getting the thing. It's literally about pursuing
Speaker 2: the thing. It's about the hunt. It's about constantly learning,
Speaker 2: it's about constantly growing. And it's like, I don't think
Speaker 2: this is true for absolutely everybody in all circumstances. But
Speaker 2: I think it's either that if we're looking at it
Speaker 2: from a goal achievement, it's the process of being on
Speaker 2: the way to achieving your goal, not when you arrive
Speaker 2: and you look at all of the points of pleasure
Speaker 2: that we can identify along the way. That almost like
Speaker 2: being strung together by a common thread. That common thread
Speaker 2: is experiences. It's stopping it, it's appreciating, it's being with
Speaker 2: all serotonin driven things.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, I love it. I'm just thinking like another
Speaker 1: kind of this sounds funny, but it's an adjoining topic, right,
Speaker 1: or it's in the same suburb is when people retire.
Speaker 1: So many people are so excited to stop work, and
Speaker 1: then they stop work and they get depressed, like within
Speaker 1: a short period of time, quite often six months, and
Speaker 1: their physical health declines, their mental health declines, you know,
Speaker 1: they they lose drive, they don't have a they do,
Speaker 1: but they don't feel like they have a purpose now,
Speaker 1: they don't have a focus. Now, like you said, they're
Speaker 1: not learning, they're not growing, they don't have the same
Speaker 1: level of connection. And it's so funny about how many
Speaker 1: of us complain about work. Ah fuck, can't wait for
Speaker 1: the big six' five to come up SO i can
Speaker 1: or whatever the age is wherever people. Live and then
Speaker 1: we get there and you, go, oh day one of
Speaker 1: the couch and gulf two times a week and you,
Speaker 1: know WHATEVER i want to, do and then that just
Speaker 1: quite often turns into a fucking slippery slope to. Nowhere.
Speaker 2: GREAT i, mean you take a look at the rise of.
Speaker 2: Burnout it's. Alarming everybody's talking about, it and burnout has
Speaker 2: a dynamic complexity to. It, so, yes workload does. Matter
Speaker 2: people do burnout because they are in fact overworked and
Speaker 2: they're working beyond the point where they're performing at an
Speaker 2: optimum or even somewhat optimum. Level but so much of
Speaker 2: that plays into not just the, workload but the meaning
Speaker 2: or lack thereof the social, isolation the lack of cultivation
Speaker 2: of relationships at, work pursuing something. Together SO i think
Speaker 2: a lot of people struggle with that earlier on. Now
Speaker 2: BUT i can totally say, that especially if you identify
Speaker 2: with your career your, job like somebody asks, you, oh
Speaker 2: so you know who are you and you give them
Speaker 2: your profession as if that's the entirety of who you.
Speaker 2: Are but for a lot of, people, yeah that's what
Speaker 2: we're connected. To so if you, know if my whole
Speaker 2: identity is tied up in this thing THAT i did
Speaker 2: AND i no longer do, it, wow who AM?
Speaker 1: I who AM? I? AM i?
Speaker 2: Contributing what is my? Worth what's my value to? Others
Speaker 2: that's a. Crisis, yeah.
Speaker 1: Definitely AND i get my sense of self and self
Speaker 1: worth and self esteem from doing these. Things every DAY
Speaker 1: i show, Up i'm, Needed i'm. Needed When i'm fucking,
Speaker 1: Retired i'm. Not it's context dependent and individual, dependent of,
Speaker 1: course but so many people THAT i know just feel
Speaker 1: like they're lost because they're now not important to, Anyone
Speaker 1: they're not part of, anything they don't really have a
Speaker 1: focused they don't and so little, things you, KNOW i
Speaker 1: don't want to strow anyone under the bus THAT i,
Speaker 1: know but you, know, small in fact non exist. Problems you,
Speaker 1: know maybe a half out of ten problem becomes a,
Speaker 1: five becomes an, eight becomes a, nine and then that
Speaker 1: leads into other. Problems and it's just, yeah because we
Speaker 1: have so little too perhaps invest our energy in and practical,
Speaker 1: things getting stuff, done ticking. Boxes not that life's all about,
Speaker 1: that of, course BUT i think life is more about
Speaker 1: that stuff than we, think LIKE i, think we think
Speaker 1: that like work is almost a, Problem WHEREAS i think
Speaker 1: depending on the, work of, course that for me works
Speaker 1: a blessing BECAUSE i associate it with so, like right,
Speaker 1: now you And i'm. Working this is a commercial, podcast
Speaker 1: we have. Sponsors like this feels genuinely to me nothing like.
Speaker 1: Work it feels like a social. Experience and that's the
Speaker 1: way THAT i come into. It, Right it's an, encounter
Speaker 1: it's catching up with a. Friend it's mentally and emotionally.
Speaker 1: Good it's good for my brain because we're, thinking we're opening,
Speaker 1: doors we're trying to perhaps answer a few questions or
Speaker 1: or PEPs understand a few. Concepts but, yeah if you
Speaker 1: can have work that is, meaningful THEN i don't know
Speaker 1: that getting out of that in a hurry is necessarily
Speaker 1: going to be a better.
Speaker 2: Life, well if you take a look At gallop and
Speaker 2: their research across the, globe seventy nine percent of people
Speaker 2: are disengaged in their. Job so there's this massive divide
Speaker 2: between WHAT i love and WHAT i, Do and there's
Speaker 2: this whole thought, process and we've heard it a thousand. Times,
Speaker 2: WELL i go to work every day and do WHAT
Speaker 2: i have to. Do so then on my own free,
Speaker 2: TIME i get to do WHAT i love to, do
Speaker 2: and there's no shame in. That that is an honorable
Speaker 2: thing to. Do but think about how much different life
Speaker 2: would be if not all the. TIME i, MEAN i
Speaker 2: don't know anybody who, well now that's not. TRUE i
Speaker 2: know a lot of people who geek out on, spreadsheets
Speaker 2: but not every aspect of your job you're absolutely gonna.
Speaker 2: Love but if the bones of, it it's the essence
Speaker 2: of your job reflected something that you deeply care, about
Speaker 2: and you not only care about it from the meaning
Speaker 2: that it, represents but from the emotion that it evokes
Speaker 2: you enjoy, it it's.
Speaker 1: A completely different.
Speaker 2: WORLD i, mean you don't know where you end and
Speaker 2: your work, begins so your vocation is a. VACATION i
Speaker 2: think that's a different level of, existence AND i think
Speaker 2: that's why so many people are. DISENGAGED i know that
Speaker 2: WHEN covid, HIT i went through a. Crisis and what's
Speaker 2: really weird is the first couple of years OF covid
Speaker 2: and the worst of, IT i was talking to a
Speaker 2: lot of, people SO i was doing a lot of.
Speaker 2: WORK i was doing a lot of things THAT i,
Speaker 2: loved BUT i wasn't doing it in the way THAT
Speaker 2: i was used to doing. IT i wasn't getting on,
Speaker 2: plane there wasn't a live. Audience there were all these,
Speaker 2: little tiny people in these little virtual. Boxes and then
Speaker 2: after it was, done you just log off and they're.
Speaker 2: Gone and that's very different than you're presenting an entire
Speaker 2: day or part of an entire, day and then at
Speaker 2: the end of, it you know exactly What i'm talking,
Speaker 2: about you and your, team which very often is not
Speaker 2: just your, team they're your, mates is sitting around with the,
Speaker 2: delegates the, participants and you're just going over the day
Speaker 2: in your. Debriefing so you've just been working at a
Speaker 2: marathon pace and energy, expenditure and now you're still working
Speaker 2: and learning from what happened in the, day and you're capturing.
Speaker 2: It when it's. Fresh you go back to your hotel
Speaker 2: room and you are, smashed and you wake up the
Speaker 2: next day it's, like, OH i can't BELIEVE i get
Speaker 2: to do, this and that becomes your. Identity so you,
Speaker 2: KNOW i was doing this inside of a vacuum because
Speaker 2: of THE covid and the, shutdowns and it was brutal
Speaker 2: on my.
Speaker 1: Psyche, YEAH i remember WHEN covid, STARTED i thought erroneously
Speaker 1: BECAUSE i didn't really know what the fuck was going,
Speaker 1: on BUT i, went, well this WILL i don't, know
Speaker 1: this will be a week or two of mayhem and
Speaker 1: then they'll figure shit. Out and, no that's WHAT i.
Speaker 1: THOUGHT i, thought, well.
Speaker 2: That's kind of WHAT i thought as.
Speaker 1: Well that's Why i'm, like they're not going to shut
Speaker 1: down the, World so let's just let's get through this.
Speaker 1: Week and then a week or. Two you, know it's
Speaker 1: like it's, like right, now petrol's becoming about a million
Speaker 1: dollars a leater In, australia And i'm, like out or
Speaker 1: sort itself out and it'll be back to normalition a few.
Speaker 1: Yeah but then part of me is, like, oh this
Speaker 1: could go on for two. Years it depends on what's going,
Speaker 1: on Right but, anyway so we're IN covid and after
Speaker 1: about four, Weeks i'm, like this is not getting better at.
Speaker 1: All this is getting. Worse and people were reaching out
Speaker 1: to me and sending me messages and there was just
Speaker 1: a lot of fear and, anxiety and you, know people
Speaker 1: dealing with all the stuff we don't, like, unknown, uncertain, uncomfortable,
Speaker 1: unfamiliar all the uns AS i, Say AND i said To,
Speaker 1: melissa but those of you don't, Know melissa runs my.
Speaker 1: LIFE i said To, melissa why DON'T i just do a,
Speaker 1: Workshop not THAT i can fix, anything but just to
Speaker 1: hang out with people. Online and you, know if twenty
Speaker 1: people come or one hundred people, come it's. Free there's
Speaker 1: no hook catch, agenda there's no we're not trying to
Speaker 1: sell books or, programs. Nothing none of that's even going
Speaker 1: to be. Mentioned it's just like me and however many
Speaker 1: people for ninety. Minutes and so that was my. Intention,
Speaker 1: anyway within within like twelve, hours she'd created a booking,
Speaker 1: thing and SO i JUST i put on my, Business,
Speaker 1: facebook my person Or facebook on My. Instagram i'm doing.
Speaker 1: THIS i think it was Next. Wednesday it was like
Speaker 1: five days. AWAY i THINK i called it being The
Speaker 1: calm and The chaos or something like, that and, said
Speaker 1: there's no hook catch, agendas it's. Free the only condition
Speaker 1: is that you have to turn, up like do not
Speaker 1: take a spot and not. Show AND i go. THIS i,
Speaker 1: know for a range of, reasons this is not a
Speaker 1: clever move on my, behalf because giving shit away for,
Speaker 1: free any business coach would tell you not to do,
Speaker 1: that et. Cetera there's a million reasons why not to do,
Speaker 1: it AND i, went fuck, it it's not about.
Speaker 2: Me so we.
Speaker 1: Promoted it that, night the same, DAY i, think and
Speaker 1: we had over when we could only take one thousand,
Speaker 1: people and that was because that's the capacity of our,
Speaker 1: whatever and we had a thousand people booking in sixty.
Speaker 1: Minutes over a thousand people try to book in And i'm,
Speaker 1: like fucket you Fuck SO i. Think we did that
Speaker 1: at seven pm and then by Thirty i'm, like, ah
Speaker 1: SO i spoke to, them, MILISS i, go what do
Speaker 1: you think we should? Do there's like a lot of
Speaker 1: people who want to do, this and we, go we'll
Speaker 1: do another one the week after and then that'll fix.
Speaker 1: It then we did. That we launched that the next
Speaker 1: night and that filed within two, hours and then we
Speaker 1: did another one and all three filled with over a
Speaker 1: thousand people and it just made me realize a, one
Speaker 1: which was, fascinating how many people can plug. In and
Speaker 1: we did Three wednesdays in a, row and of course
Speaker 1: a thousand didn't turn, up but it was close to
Speaker 1: one thousand every. Time, yeah just the need that people
Speaker 1: have for a focus on something for, connection for something,
Speaker 1: positive for something, uplifting and everybody had just been thrown
Speaker 1: into this new model of living which nobody wanted or
Speaker 1: very few people. Wanted and now you can't go, anywhere
Speaker 1: especially In, australia you can't go. Anywhere you can't drive
Speaker 1: more than five. Kilometers if you walk outside in the fresh,
Speaker 1: air you have to have a mask, on you. KNOW
Speaker 1: i mean even if you're in Rural victoria and you're
Speaker 1: walking up a fucking old dusty, road you've got to
Speaker 1: wear a. Mask and so it was. Turmoil and, YEAH
Speaker 1: i THINK i got a lot of nice, feedback which was.
Speaker 1: Good but people just appreciated somebody reaching out so that
Speaker 1: they weren't in the middle of, nothingness like what's my purpose?
Speaker 1: NOW i don't? Know some, workers, Connection, yeah all those, things.
Speaker 2: And this IS i think this is What Captain charlie
Speaker 2: plump mat when he, said never let adversity go to?
Speaker 2: West like what did we learn as a result of these?
Speaker 2: Experiences and this is a scary, Question it's a painful,
Speaker 2: one probably a disappointing. One as a society we become
Speaker 2: as a result of this.
Speaker 1: EXPERIENCE i think that's. Important and, yeah is it who
Speaker 1: do we become or how do we? Become like what
Speaker 1: version of us do we? Be, anyway it doesn't matter
Speaker 1: what's your answer to that or what's your insight into that.
Speaker 1: QUESTION i know WHAT i.
Speaker 2: FEEL i don't know how insightful it. Is i'm not
Speaker 2: really sure how much we did learn BECAUSE i remember
Speaker 2: in the midst of, it people, were as your story perfectly,
Speaker 2: illustrates people were very hungry for human. Connection, yeah and proximity, matters,
Speaker 2: Right we can have this conversation all day, long these.
Speaker 2: Debates BUT i, mean when you look at the, research
Speaker 2: being in close proximity with other human beings really does,
Speaker 2: matter and that's not going to change in the course
Speaker 2: of a couple of. Years check back in twenty five.
Speaker 2: Generations maybe so we learned, that we learned that we
Speaker 2: need each. Other we learned that one of the most
Speaker 2: fulfilling things and life giving things is that, connection that
Speaker 2: intersection between you and. Me we learned that we need
Speaker 2: to have meaning and focus and be going somewhere. Together
Speaker 2: and then you, know POST, covid we seem to be
Speaker 2: more focused on self and tribalism and disconnected from one
Speaker 2: another and discompassionate towards one another and threatened by any
Speaker 2: type of togetherness that we so desperately thought if it
Speaker 2: doesn't come in the exact form of everything Else i've
Speaker 2: experienced Or i'm, expecting how, sad how absolutely. SAD i
Speaker 2: remember nine to, eleven which is a small microcosm of
Speaker 2: what's happening in the world right. Now and for about
Speaker 2: a month, after everybody pulled together and they were just helping.
Speaker 2: EVERYONE i, mean you had your break, in had your,
Speaker 2: eluding but it was so it was so minor compared
Speaker 2: to what you thought it would. Be in complete, chaos
Speaker 2: especially In Low. Manhattan but here's what you had so
Speaker 2: much more. Of you had people running into shops grabbing
Speaker 2: as much stuff off the shelves as they could not for.
Speaker 2: Themselves wasn't like the toilet tissue wars that we had IN. Covid,
Speaker 2: YEAH i want to hoard as much for, me and you,
Speaker 2: know screw. You they were grabbing it for other. People
Speaker 2: there were no staff at the front, desk and people
Speaker 2: leaving money on the, counter probably more money than what
Speaker 2: they were taking was. Worth nobody was touching that. Money
Speaker 2: they were adding to. It we we had an evacuation
Speaker 2: that was basically a call for assistance that was larger
Speaker 2: in scale Than, dunkirk and nobody talks about. That and everybody,
Speaker 2: responded and in the worst, circumstances you, saw you saw
Speaker 2: the best to you. Humanity i'm so proud to be
Speaker 2: A New. Yorker and, then you, KNOW i think a
Speaker 2: couple of months, later somebody was crossing off the. Light
Speaker 2: somebody honked at, him and the person turned. Around it's, like,
Speaker 2: oh fuck. Off it's, like, oh thank, Heavens New york
Speaker 2: is back. Again we're we're getting back to. Normal so
Speaker 2: that was a. Relief but we learned these, lessons and
Speaker 2: then as soon as the crisis is, over very shortly,
Speaker 2: after we move away from the things that we so desperately.
Speaker 2: Required it's mind.
Speaker 1: MODELING i, REMEMBER i don't know how true this, is
Speaker 1: But i've heard it a few. Times a story about the,
Speaker 1: astronauts well one or two of the astronauts who came
Speaker 1: back from the moon, landing, right the alleged moon. Landing
Speaker 1: now everyone's, like, ah that didn't. Happen i'm, LIKE i don't,
Speaker 1: know but, anyway the story goes that might have Been Neil,
Speaker 1: armstrong might have been Buzz, older and might have been
Speaker 1: one of the. Others but the story goes that when
Speaker 1: they came back from The moon that they were depressed
Speaker 1: for like two, years because what the fuck do you
Speaker 1: do after you go to the, Moon, like what could?
Speaker 2: You what?
Speaker 1: Aspiration what aspiration can? You, well you went to the? Moon,
Speaker 1: cool what's? Next fucking? Nothing there is NOTHING i have
Speaker 1: to aspire That i'm the first human on another. Planet it's,
Speaker 1: LIKE i just think about. That in terms of the
Speaker 1: destination disappointment, IDEA i think there's a couple of. Parts
Speaker 1: the most important part is what we've been talking, about
Speaker 1: which is when we're on the, way when we're climbing
Speaker 1: up the metaphoric, mountain we, have you, know purpose and
Speaker 1: connection and growth and learning and awareness and we build
Speaker 1: resilience and all of these good things. Happen but we,
Speaker 1: ALSO i, think have an expectation that the outcome or
Speaker 1: the achievement of the, goal the thing that every one can,
Speaker 1: see will equal the thing that everyone can't, see which
Speaker 1: is some internal positive, revelation revolution or. Transformation it's LIKE
Speaker 1: i will be WHEN i DO, X i will BE.
Speaker 1: Y and then they DO x and they're, Like, Nope
Speaker 1: i'm still. Insecure, Nope i'm still. Fearful, NO i still
Speaker 1: worry about how MUCH i. Weigh, NOPE i still feel.
Speaker 1: Broke i'm still, scared even THOUGH i make more money
Speaker 1: THAN i. NEED i think That's so there's the. Twofold you.
Speaker 1: Know there's the first, thing which, is you, know we get,
Speaker 1: there then now we don't have the focus of you,
Speaker 1: know it's, like what's my fucking purpose? Now but then
Speaker 1: there's the other, one which, is, well HERE i, am
Speaker 1: how come DON'T i how COME i don't feel the
Speaker 1: WAY i THOUGHT i would feel standing on this metaphoric, mountain.
Speaker 2: You. Know in relation to, that let's go back TO,
Speaker 2: Covid so JOIN. Covid and there was these, cues like
Speaker 2: down the street there was a fusion ice cream. Place
Speaker 2: don't ask me what that, Means i'm not, sure but
Speaker 2: they take different types of ice cream and they mix
Speaker 2: it together and it was just absolutely. Brilliant ALL i
Speaker 2: know is it tasted better than it. Looked so in
Speaker 2: the neighborhood That amy AND i were living in at the,
Speaker 2: time we would go there and it wasn't just great
Speaker 2: that we'd give these giant. Scoops so you have this
Speaker 2: giant bowl of ice, cream a cup of ice cream
Speaker 2: that you're walking away with you can't sit. Inside IT'S covid,
Speaker 2: obviously and we would go back once a week and
Speaker 2: have this ice. Cream, well they must have got a
Speaker 2: new manager or, something because when we went, back the
Speaker 2: scoops were much. Smaller, now mind, you the ice cream
Speaker 2: was brilliant and there was nothing wrong with the serving,
Speaker 2: size but it wasn't quite what we, expected so dopamine response.
Speaker 2: Lower we go back another, time, well same small, serving
Speaker 2: dopamine response. Lower eventually we're so disappointed we write this place,
Speaker 2: off even though they were still serving truly amazing ice,
Speaker 2: cream because it did not match our condition. Expectation imagine
Speaker 2: having an expectation about climbing that corporate, ladder and this
Speaker 2: is over a, decade maybe two decades in the. Making
Speaker 2: you've got this thing in your head about what it's
Speaker 2: going to, be but you're not thinking about what the
Speaker 2: journey is going to be, like or why that journey,
Speaker 2: matters or the milestones along the. Way what you're thinking
Speaker 2: about is that end. Destination and then you get. There
Speaker 2: even if it's really, great it's going to suck because
Speaker 2: it doesn't match what you made it to be in your.
Speaker 2: Imagination which is WHY i think it's like daily behaviors
Speaker 2: have to be rooted into something more.
Speaker 1: Meaningful it's almost like the opposite is you know that
Speaker 1: underpromise over deliver in. Business it's like whatever they thought
Speaker 1: they were going to get a, seven give them a fucking,
Speaker 1: fifteen you, know and they're paying for a, seven or
Speaker 1: they think they're paying for, Seven give them a, fifteen
Speaker 1: or give them a. Twenty like make them feel like
Speaker 1: this is the best value and the best, service and
Speaker 1: you're the best. Person this is the best business because
Speaker 1: they never had this experience. Before And i've spoken to
Speaker 1: people about that setting up small, businesses as have. You i'm.
Speaker 1: Sure but then the challenge is, Cool now you've got
Speaker 1: to maintain that because week, one of course you're. Excited
Speaker 1: Of course you're going to kill yourself to be. Amazing
Speaker 1: Of course you're going to deliver the very best thing you. Can,
Speaker 1: okay now it's four years down the track and you're
Speaker 1: fucked your backsaw and you're grumpy and. Whatever it's, like it's,
Speaker 1: that how DO I how DO i keep doing? That you?
Speaker 1: Know how DO?
Speaker 2: I i think now you're getting into, culture training and
Speaker 2: development of your, team Like Rich calton back in its,
Speaker 2: heyday one of its tenants were meeting even the unexpressed
Speaker 2: needs of the. Customer so there's a need that the customer.
Speaker 2: Has they don't explicitly know, it but they kind of feel.
Speaker 2: It and you're so good at communicating with one another
Speaker 2: as a team and communicating with the customer you can
Speaker 2: anticipate that need before they're explicitly aware of, that so
Speaker 2: you can maintain. That but it does take a lot of,
Speaker 2: effort and it takes a lot of, training a lot of,
Speaker 2: development and you can't put you can't put it in
Speaker 2: first gear for very. Long if you're talking about always
Speaker 2: exceeding expectations and now that cost you more and more
Speaker 2: for the same, customer that's just completely not. Sustainable so
Speaker 2: that's like health club chain back in the day when
Speaker 2: you AND i agree getting started the whole free session. Thing,
Speaker 2: well that's not meeting exceeding expectations or under promising over.
Speaker 2: Deliver that is financially unsustainable as a business. Model SO
Speaker 2: i think what we're talking about here is what does
Speaker 2: your culture do that creates that expectation or exceeds that,
Speaker 2: expectation not what are you giving an addition within the.
Speaker 2: BUSINESS i think the first one creates more. Loyalty, Anyway,
Speaker 2: YEAH i think.
Speaker 1: THAT i got frequent back WHEN i Opened harper's back
Speaker 1: in the. Day not, well the first version was, good
Speaker 1: but it was a little. Studio THEN i opened up
Speaker 1: a relatively big studio compared to what else was, around
Speaker 1: which was. Nothing but it was really good sized. Center
Speaker 1: and you, know we had most of the time we
Speaker 1: would have somewhere between five and fifteen trainers on the
Speaker 1: floor and you know their. Clients AND i can be
Speaker 1: the first to say, that like at this, STAGE i
Speaker 1: didn't have a. DEGREE i MEAN i was qualified as
Speaker 1: a whatever it is for a, trainer AND i HAD
Speaker 1: i think level one and two strength conditioning, calls BUT
Speaker 1: i didn't have a. Degree my knowledge was you, know,
Speaker 1: okay it wasn't. Amazing and that was the same with
Speaker 1: all my. STAFF i don't know that at that stage
Speaker 1: anyone even had a. Degree about nineteen the early nineteen,
Speaker 1: nineties like thirty.
Speaker 2: Years, three as weren't even invented.
Speaker 1: Yet, yeah that's. Right but it was such a fucking
Speaker 1: fun place to, Be like it, was oh my, god the,
Speaker 1: fun the, cheekinness the, connection the, laughter the fucker and
Speaker 1: the inappropriateness when nobody would lose their, shit often from
Speaker 1: the ladies', training not from the because it was mostly
Speaker 1: about seventy percent of our clients women and people just
Speaker 1: loved being. There not every single, person but the. Majority
Speaker 1: and that's you, know these, DAYS i still meet people
Speaker 1: who trained there twenty thirty years ago and they're, like
Speaker 1: oh my, God happas was the best gym ever to train.
Speaker 1: In it was like, unique it was, fun all the
Speaker 1: trainers were, Great everybody made an, effort and it wasn't
Speaker 1: following some fucking. Script it wasn't script, that it wasn't.
Speaker 1: Generic it was just like every everyone wanted to be
Speaker 1: there and love to be, there and that, yeah that
Speaker 1: you could have a five out of ten, product but
Speaker 1: a twelve out of ten, culture and you're never going
Speaker 1: out of business because people want to be. There i'm
Speaker 1: not suggesting a five out of ten, product by the,
Speaker 1: way BUT i, know back in the, day when we
Speaker 1: first started figuring out In australia, anyway what the fuck
Speaker 1: is personal? Training when there wasn't a, Thing there wasn't an,
Speaker 1: industry there wasn't a, qualification there wasn't a cert there wasn't,
Speaker 1: insurance there wasn't there was. NOTHING i couldn't go and
Speaker 1: talk to that other trainer who had more experience than
Speaker 1: me because that guy didn't exist In australia or that
Speaker 1: girl so still. Doesn't, yeah, you, well but that's true
Speaker 1: Because i'm probably the pioneer in some. Ways but, yeah
Speaker 1: you just, Yeah you're, like, oh, well we'll figure it.
Speaker 1: Out but if we can make this a place that
Speaker 1: people want to come. TO i say that to. Bosses
Speaker 1: do your staff like coming to? Work and they haven't
Speaker 1: even thought about? THAT i, go that's a that seems
Speaker 1: like not. IMPORTANT i, go that's maybe the most important.
Speaker 1: Question do your people like working for? You slash with?
Speaker 1: You do your people get excited about coming to this
Speaker 1: place each day and doing what they? Do before we
Speaker 1: even start to talk about the mechanics of the operating
Speaker 1: system and the you, know the KPIs and the box, ticking,
Speaker 1: like just do people like coming? Here because if the
Speaker 1: answer is, not, really we got way more problems than
Speaker 1: profit and.
Speaker 2: Loss, okay here's my rant because you just had a
Speaker 2: nerve with. Me we take a look at people who
Speaker 2: create irreparable damage across organization after, organization and then we
Speaker 2: re hire those people at executive OR c suite level
Speaker 2: positions to do the same shit to our. Organization and
Speaker 2: it's amazing how absolutely delusional some. PEOPLE i know there's
Speaker 2: a lot of pieces to running a, business, well but
Speaker 2: what you just said right there where the whole conversation around, customers,
Speaker 2: like screw customer. Service what a, complete colossal waste of.
Speaker 2: Time it's not just a waste of, time it's. Counterproductive and,
Speaker 2: YEAH i don't. Care i'm probably going to offend some
Speaker 2: people resonate with. Others but if everything in your organization
Speaker 2: is about the, customer the, customer the, customer customer, experience customer,
Speaker 2: experience your customer experience absolutely. Sucks if it's about who
Speaker 2: are we, hiring what do we do? Here? Why team,
Speaker 2: member team, member team, member and what is it we
Speaker 2: want to be known? For what do we want to
Speaker 2: be the best? At two things. Happen Number, one the
Speaker 2: job gets a lot. Easier so this is going back to.
Speaker 2: Burnout putting in more, effort more, excitement more. Enthusiasm you
Speaker 2: are more energized at the end of a long work
Speaker 2: day than if you are droning from the time you
Speaker 2: punch in and dragging yourself to the time you clock.
Speaker 2: Out that is a miserable. Existence SO i was doing
Speaker 2: someone many many years, ago AND i can mention both
Speaker 2: of these companies give them the context of What i'm
Speaker 2: about to. Say first company was Club. SPORT i was
Speaker 2: there to present to their. Team why because they were
Speaker 2: a health culp chain AND i was in the fitness,
Speaker 2: industry so it made. Sense SO i did. It AND
Speaker 2: i get there like, early like a few hours, early
Speaker 2: And i'm in this hotel And i'm just walking around
Speaker 2: and in my, hotel the outlet or the power point
Speaker 2: THAT i plugged my phone into wasn't. Working so now
Speaker 2: my phone is kind of. DEAD i need to make
Speaker 2: a phone. Call and Like i'm walking, Around i'm asking
Speaker 2: people for a payphone and they start asking, me like.
Speaker 1: What are you calling?
Speaker 2: Local and they start asking me all these questions And i'm, like,
Speaker 2: NO i actually need to call my. Office it's not.
Speaker 2: Local and remember that the whole local calling. Thing this
Speaker 2: is a long time. Ago So i'm walking down the.
Speaker 2: Hole As i'm walking down the, hole somebody comes up
Speaker 2: to me and, says, oh you, KNOW i understand you
Speaker 2: need to make a phone. Call And i'm, like first
Speaker 2: TIME i ever saw this. Person the other person had
Speaker 2: a walkie talking and. Notified so there's this weird guy
Speaker 2: and he's like walking towards you at an erratic. Pace
Speaker 2: this is what he's. Wearing he needs to make a phone.
Speaker 2: Call it's, like, okay you're probably not gonna be able
Speaker 2: to make a phone call from. There why don't you
Speaker 2: step into the. Office you can use our company. Phone,
Speaker 2: amazing right. Wow so then they're, like, oh so what
Speaker 2: do you you? Know so how long are you staying?
Speaker 2: HERE i EXPLAINED i was not a guest at that.
Speaker 2: Hotel weirdly, ENOUGH i was staying in another, hotel BUT
Speaker 2: i was there to present for their, partner Club. Sport
Speaker 2: so Club sport was attached to The. Renaissance and THEN
Speaker 2: i had, Mentioned, God i'm really. Hungry you, KNOW i
Speaker 2: can get something to eat around, here and they, said,
Speaker 2: oh you, know unfortunately our kitchen is. Closed but think
Speaker 2: about this in today's day and, age, LIKE i think
Speaker 2: we can get it open for you and omelet be,
Speaker 2: Okay And i'm, like oh my, goodness So i'm going
Speaker 2: to eat an omelet in this, place and me being
Speaker 2: me and just the level of energy and jitters before a.
Speaker 2: SEMINAR i dropped stuff all over my shirt only. SHIRT
Speaker 2: i can't go back to my. Hotel the person takes
Speaker 2: my shirt from. ME i had A t, shirt of,
Speaker 2: COURSE i had a waistcoat and takes my stuff in
Speaker 2: the back AND i think it was like sparkling water
Speaker 2: or whatever they do and brings back a wet but
Speaker 2: completely clean shirt that is going to. Dry and then
Speaker 2: they asked, me, well do you want us to get
Speaker 2: that iron. FIE i was, like, no, no, no that's. OKAY
Speaker 2: i could put the waistcoat over. It and this experience
Speaker 2: was happening for. ME i wasn't even staying at the.
Speaker 2: Hotel so FINALLY i couldn't take it. ANYMORE i was,
Speaker 2: like you know who runs this particular location right and
Speaker 2: there was THE GM. Ed his name Is Ed. TOMLIN
Speaker 2: i remember his name decades. LATER i was, like is
Speaker 2: edit work? Today CAN i please speak To? Ed And
Speaker 2: ed comes out AND i was, LIKE i gotta talk to.
Speaker 2: You do you have a couple of, minutes because, like
Speaker 2: CAN i spend like ten minutes with? You what the
Speaker 2: hell is going on in this? Place what are you?
Speaker 2: Doing and all he talked about is hiring, practices what
Speaker 2: they look for what type of person you absolutely need
Speaker 2: to be to be on That renaissance hotel staff and
Speaker 2: what they are aiming to be the best. At because
Speaker 2: when you're the best in, CLASS i don't care what you.
Speaker 2: DO i don't care whether you're part of the housekeeping,
Speaker 2: team the front. DESK i don't care what industry you work.
Speaker 2: In there is pride. Going this team is. Peerless there
Speaker 2: is no one like. Us we are first in. Class
Speaker 2: and here's. Why that's an, engaging bloody. Job and then
Speaker 2: every time you run into one of these highly, trained highly,
Speaker 2: engaged highly accountable, people what do you think your experience
Speaker 2: is going to. Be it's gonna be a bit like.
Speaker 2: Mine that's something we're.
Speaker 1: Missing, yeah you might want to start a, business now another.
Speaker 1: ONE i love it when you GET i love it
Speaker 1: when you get pumped up and. Excited NOW i know
Speaker 1: you've got a commitment, tonight tonight your, time my. Lunchtime
Speaker 1: so we'll leave it. There but thank, you as always
Speaker 1: for your energy and your. INSIGHT i love it when
Speaker 1: you take a run up and you get on your
Speaker 1: little pulpit and you start. Preaching it's it's always. Enlightening
Speaker 1: so the self Help antidote Is bobby's. Podcast do not
Speaker 1: expect any.
Speaker 2: EPISODES i just want to be, CLEAR i am taking
Speaker 2: a season. Off i'm going seasonal. Experimentally we will be
Speaker 2: resuming it In.
Speaker 1: May first Of gidea up and LinkedIn Robert cappuccio and
Speaker 1: robertcapuccio dot com and new address soon to. Come but
Speaker 1: more of that.
Speaker 2: Loan, Yeah i'm moving so thanks, Hops thanks, Everyone Thanks,
Speaker 2: buddy