WEBVTT - Episode 14: Jon's Own Words 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:04.720 Listeners are advised that this podcast series Bromwin contains course 0:00:04.800 --> 0:00:08.840 language and adult themes. This podcast series is brought to 0:00:08.880 --> 0:00:42.640 you by Me Headley Thomas and The Australian from John 0:00:42.680 --> 0:00:46.080 and Bromman's old house on the hillside in Lennox Head. 0:00:46.200 --> 0:00:49.040 It is a fifteen minute drive to the nearest police 0:00:49.040 --> 0:00:53.040 station in the town of Ballina. The coast Road is 0:00:53.080 --> 0:00:57.800 the picturesque route south, passing John's favorite surfing beaches of 0:00:57.960 --> 0:01:02.320 boulders and sharps. Heading west for a bridge crossing at 0:01:02.360 --> 0:01:07.039 North Creek, John pulled up at River Street, so called 0:01:07.040 --> 0:01:10.559 because of the Mighty Richmond River, a stone's throw from 0:01:10.600 --> 0:01:11.600 the police building. 0:01:12.600 --> 0:01:13.640 He got here on a. 0:01:13.600 --> 0:01:17.560 Wednesday morning in August nineteen ninety eight to be interviewed 0:01:17.600 --> 0:01:21.880 by Detective Sergeant Glenn Taylor about the disappearance of Bromwin 0:01:22.360 --> 0:01:27.200 five years and three months earlier. The videotape of that 0:01:27.319 --> 0:01:31.160 interview remains under lock and key with New South Wales Police. 0:01:31.880 --> 0:01:36.200 Bromwin's sister Kim Marshall, retrieved the official transcript of the 0:01:36.400 --> 0:01:41.280 entire conversation for me. It is vitally important as a 0:01:41.319 --> 0:01:44.720 record of the one and only time John Winfield's version 0:01:44.840 --> 0:01:48.600 of events. His side of the story has been properly 0:01:48.760 --> 0:01:54.240 documented by a senior police detective. Prior to August five, 0:01:54.560 --> 0:01:57.880 nineteen ninety eight. His side of the story was known 0:01:58.000 --> 0:02:01.440 to many, but they'd heard it from others too, so 0:02:01.720 --> 0:02:05.960 there was both direct and hearsay knowledge. There were John's 0:02:06.040 --> 0:02:08.640 versions of his trip back to Lennox Head on the 0:02:08.760 --> 0:02:14.160 night of Sunday, May sixteenth, nineteen ninety three, his conversations 0:02:14.200 --> 0:02:17.160 with Bromwyn and the two girls in the house at 0:02:17.200 --> 0:02:21.600 Sandstone Crescent before they were put to bed, His story 0:02:21.680 --> 0:02:25.080 about Bromwyn having said she wanted a break from the 0:02:25.160 --> 0:02:29.040 children for a few days. The phone calls, he says 0:02:29.160 --> 0:02:33.120 Bromwyn made from the bedroom that night. The car, he 0:02:33.240 --> 0:02:36.760 says he heard, pull up outside the house on Sandstone 0:02:36.800 --> 0:02:42.040 Crescent soon afterwards to collect her, his explanation for his hasty. 0:02:41.680 --> 0:02:43.320 Departure from the house that night. 0:02:44.160 --> 0:02:47.120 Then a drive of ten hours or so south on 0:02:47.200 --> 0:02:50.320 the Old Pacific Highway with Crystal and Lauren and the 0:02:50.360 --> 0:02:54.320 pet dog until their arrival the next morning in Sydney. 0:02:55.440 --> 0:02:59.639 All of these things were known to Bromwan's friends and family, 0:02:59.800 --> 0:03:03.519 but they were told and retold in dribs and drabs 0:03:04.520 --> 0:03:09.359 important facts were not known at all. For example, John's 0:03:09.360 --> 0:03:13.280 sudden arrival at his former wife's home in the Southerland 0:03:13.320 --> 0:03:16.079 shire of Sydney on the morning of the drive from 0:03:16.160 --> 0:03:19.120 Lennox Head, and the plea he made to that woman's 0:03:19.160 --> 0:03:22.079 mother in law, whom he had never met, to look 0:03:22.160 --> 0:03:25.520 after the girls. As John said, he had an important 0:03:25.560 --> 0:03:26.200 job to do. 0:03:28.280 --> 0:03:31.040 My daughter in law, Jenny was out and I was 0:03:31.040 --> 0:03:32.240 not sure where Brad was. 0:03:33.200 --> 0:03:36.760 In episode four, a voice actor for Joan Mason read 0:03:36.840 --> 0:03:38.480 parts of her police statement. 0:03:39.200 --> 0:03:41.040 I answered the door and I saw a man who 0:03:41.080 --> 0:03:45.280 introduced himself as Winfield. I don't remember his first name, 0:03:45.600 --> 0:03:47.520 but I recalled. He told me that he had been 0:03:47.600 --> 0:03:50.720 Jenny's first husband. I saw that he had two young 0:03:50.760 --> 0:03:53.920 girls with him. I remember both these young girls were 0:03:54.000 --> 0:03:55.400 dressed in pajamas. 0:03:56.000 --> 0:03:56.840 I remember this man. 0:03:56.920 --> 0:04:00.280 Winfield asked me could he leave the two girls. He 0:04:00.320 --> 0:04:02.960 was in Sydney to do a big job. He said 0:04:03.000 --> 0:04:05.400 something about being in the building game and he had 0:04:05.440 --> 0:04:08.360 to go and see someone about a job. He said 0:04:08.360 --> 0:04:10.800 that he had been driving all night. He said he 0:04:10.840 --> 0:04:14.160 needed to leave the children with someone. I recall telling 0:04:14.240 --> 0:04:16.200 him that he could leave the kids there and I 0:04:16.240 --> 0:04:19.120 would tell Jenny when she came home. He left the 0:04:19.200 --> 0:04:21.679 children with me and I looked after them until Jenny 0:04:21.760 --> 0:04:22.640 arrived back home. 0:04:24.520 --> 0:04:27.719 Those details would only come to light in the weeks 0:04:27.880 --> 0:04:32.160 after John's interview at the Ballana Police Station on August five, 0:04:32.480 --> 0:04:36.839 nineteen ninety eight, as Detective Sergeant Glen Taylor tracked down 0:04:36.920 --> 0:04:41.280 more and more people to talk to. Andy Reid's wife, 0:04:41.360 --> 0:04:45.080 Michelle had made notes on different pieces of paper over 0:04:45.160 --> 0:04:48.400 the five years, notes of what she had been told 0:04:48.440 --> 0:04:50.880 by John and what she had been told by others 0:04:50.920 --> 0:04:54.360 who talked to John, But nobody had written all of 0:04:54.440 --> 0:04:58.360 John's words down until Glenn Taylor asked John to come 0:04:58.400 --> 0:05:00.800 to the police station four normal interview. 0:05:01.800 --> 0:05:05.920 The interview has commenced at age fifty two am. For 0:05:05.960 --> 0:05:09.440 the purpose of the tape record, Can everyone present state 0:05:09.480 --> 0:05:10.200 their full name? 0:05:11.080 --> 0:05:13.480 Arm Detective Sergeant Glenn William Taylor. 0:05:14.440 --> 0:05:20.040 Detective Senior Constable Wayne Temby introduced himself, and John followed. 0:05:19.680 --> 0:05:22.520 Suit Jonathan Winfield. 0:05:23.400 --> 0:05:27.480 The name Wayne Temby will be familiar to listeners back 0:05:27.480 --> 0:05:30.760 in nineteen ninety three, when it was the detective Sergeant 0:05:30.800 --> 0:05:35.600 Graham Diskins's job to investigate Bromman's disappearance. Wayne Temby was 0:05:35.640 --> 0:05:39.880 a more junior officer on the case. He answered to Discan. 0:05:41.080 --> 0:05:47.080 The two investigations Detective Discins then Detective Taylor's, were starkly different. 0:05:47.920 --> 0:05:52.440 Whereas no statements were taken from anyone in nineteen ninety three, 0:05:52.560 --> 0:05:57.120 when Discin was running the investigation, Glenn Taylor was determined 0:05:57.160 --> 0:05:59.840 to interview as many people as he could find, get 0:05:59.839 --> 0:06:02.719 their statements on the record, and put them into a 0:06:02.760 --> 0:06:03.680 brief of evidence. 0:06:04.800 --> 0:06:07.839 Do you agree, mister Winfield, that there are no other 0:06:07.920 --> 0:06:11.960 persons present in the interview room other than the people 0:06:12.240 --> 0:06:14.120 that have just introduced themselves? 0:06:14.760 --> 0:06:15.000 Yes? 0:06:15.080 --> 0:06:15.440 I do. 0:06:16.200 --> 0:06:18.839 And do you agree that the only door to this 0:06:18.960 --> 0:06:23.120 interview room is directly to your left, which is in 0:06:23.160 --> 0:06:28.520 a closed position. Now, yeah, mister Winfield. As I've already 0:06:28.560 --> 0:06:33.520 explained to you, Detective Temby and I are making inquiries 0:06:33.600 --> 0:06:37.440 in relation to the disappearance of your wife, Browan Joey 0:06:37.640 --> 0:06:42.279 Winfield on or about the sixteenth of May nineteen ninety 0:06:42.320 --> 0:06:45.560 three from Lennix Head. We're going to ask you some 0:06:45.600 --> 0:06:50.640 further questions about this matter. These questions and any answers 0:06:50.760 --> 0:06:54.279 that you care to give to those questions will be 0:06:54.440 --> 0:07:00.200 recorded electronically, both on video and audio. Cassette tapes as 0:07:00.200 --> 0:07:03.360 the interview takes place. Do you understand that? 0:07:04.320 --> 0:07:05.360 Yeah. 0:07:05.920 --> 0:07:09.680 In this episode, which follows the revelations in the two 0:07:09.880 --> 0:07:14.320 subscriber only episodes of eleven and twelve, you are going 0:07:14.360 --> 0:07:18.560 to hear John Winfield in his own words. You are 0:07:18.600 --> 0:07:22.040 not hearing John's voice. We've got a voice actor for this, 0:07:22.560 --> 0:07:27.280 but you are hearing Glenn Taylor's distinctive voice for this 0:07:27.440 --> 0:07:31.520 podcast series. Glenn agreed to read from the transcript of 0:07:31.560 --> 0:07:35.360 the interview that he did with John, but first, here's 0:07:35.480 --> 0:07:39.280 Glenn at his home in Ballina in March twenty twenty one. 0:07:40.200 --> 0:07:44.000 I was meeting the former homicide detective for the first time. 0:07:45.240 --> 0:07:48.320 Let's go back to the interview that you did with 0:07:48.600 --> 0:07:52.720 Jonathan Winfield. There must have been a bit of anticipation, 0:07:52.920 --> 0:07:56.040 on a bit of build up, and you go into 0:07:56.080 --> 0:08:01.680 that and how did his demeanor striking concerned that the 0:08:01.760 --> 0:08:05.000 evidence have a week later to. 0:08:05.000 --> 0:08:08.160 Lead to chargers. We believe he should put him my 0:08:08.280 --> 0:08:09.680 electronic We called it HEAVI you. 0:08:10.520 --> 0:08:14.840 He was cooperative and came to the interview with you 0:08:15.520 --> 0:08:21.400 and detected timby voluntarily es. I asked him about the 0:08:21.440 --> 0:08:24.920 pros and cons of interviewing the person of interest, a 0:08:24.960 --> 0:08:29.000 man whom Glenn regarded as a clear and present suspect 0:08:29.120 --> 0:08:34.280 ahead of interviews of everyone else. Remember when Glenn Taylor 0:08:34.320 --> 0:08:38.880 interviewed John, it was August nineteen ninety eight. Lauren and 0:08:38.960 --> 0:08:42.600 Crystal were ten and fifteen, and John was no longer 0:08:42.679 --> 0:08:47.000 in contact with Bromwan's brother Andy Reid, nor with Bromwin's 0:08:47.000 --> 0:08:52.520 sisters Kim Marshall and Melissa Reid. John had stopped talking 0:08:52.600 --> 0:08:58.640 to Bromwin's cousin, Megan Reid. The families were estranged. Bromwin's 0:08:58.679 --> 0:09:03.120 loved ones were deep suspicious of John. In the interview, 0:09:03.360 --> 0:09:06.600 are you looking at, for example, a folder that is 0:09:06.600 --> 0:09:08.760 in front of you, a long list of questions that 0:09:08.800 --> 0:09:09.800 you prepared? 0:09:09.840 --> 0:09:15.599 Of what we did. We certainly went over the movements. 0:09:14.320 --> 0:09:16.760 Of himself when he arrived back at the house and 0:09:17.880 --> 0:09:22.800 what was discussed, and he again a Lexid that she 0:09:23.240 --> 0:09:26.160 was seen this mysterious fan call and leaving the house 0:09:26.240 --> 0:09:29.319 and not saying where she's going already ing and then 0:09:29.600 --> 0:09:34.880 why he would suddenly just make a decision to take 0:09:34.920 --> 0:09:38.040 the key, King still in there, jamas put in the car, 0:09:38.440 --> 0:09:40.600 are they in your clothes? And then God in the 0:09:40.600 --> 0:09:44.920 family car that she was sitting positional back to Sydney. 0:09:45.960 --> 0:09:49.640 The timeline of the investigation by Glenn Taylor shows that 0:09:49.760 --> 0:09:54.040 Jonathan Winfield was the first cab off the rank, the 0:09:54.080 --> 0:09:58.880 first person to be formally interviewed. I think he's still wanted. 0:09:58.720 --> 0:10:02.839 To project in the interview that he was concerned for her, 0:10:03.040 --> 0:10:06.480 and then he had nothing to hide, he'd done nothing wrong. 0:10:07.280 --> 0:10:10.160 We tried not to lead in his stay and untain 0:10:10.960 --> 0:10:12.920 and when you were sitting there opposite. 0:10:12.559 --> 0:10:15.720 Him in the media like that, which is being electronically recorded, 0:10:16.600 --> 0:10:20.320 as you're getting the answers and hearing his explanations for 0:10:20.440 --> 0:10:23.440 certain things that you might have found. 0:10:23.120 --> 0:10:25.960 Suspicious, but you're keeping an open mind. 0:10:26.240 --> 0:10:30.080 Were you being persuaded that perhaps this wasn't suspicious, that 0:10:30.160 --> 0:10:32.280 she had just started a new life. 0:10:32.559 --> 0:10:36.480 Where would she go, how would she fund herself to 0:10:36.520 --> 0:10:40.160 do these things? Loan's ever seen us since or none 0:10:40.200 --> 0:10:42.240 of her bank accounts had ever been touched, and she's 0:10:42.520 --> 0:10:44.839 never attempted to make contact with the kids. 0:10:45.559 --> 0:10:46.959 We went right through. 0:10:47.160 --> 0:10:52.199 Everything that he allegies happened about his marriage and going 0:10:52.240 --> 0:10:55.960 down to Sydney to do work, and then finding out 0:10:56.000 --> 0:10:59.400 that prominent move back into the family own. 0:10:59.400 --> 0:11:04.520 Did you if I any people who were antagonistic or 0:11:04.559 --> 0:11:09.480 potentially enemies of bronwin who may have caused her harm. 0:11:09.240 --> 0:11:13.559 Nay not. Why I hope he talks to me. You 0:11:13.640 --> 0:11:18.400 never know, Jonathan Winfield, he was never formally Indian. 0:11:18.640 --> 0:11:21.199 Back in the addition with mister Gash he has spoken 0:11:21.240 --> 0:11:24.040 didn't but he was never formally anyviewed by a WI 0:11:24.120 --> 0:11:27.319 of electronic recording or eveything statement taken from him. 0:11:27.559 --> 0:11:30.080 But he will have to agree to come in and 0:11:30.120 --> 0:11:31.920 talk to you all. Now, No, he didn't. 0:11:32.160 --> 0:11:36.800 But he's saying that she just walked down in the 0:11:36.840 --> 0:11:40.200 family homeland. She's just a missing person now, and that 0:11:40.400 --> 0:11:43.760 she's left the home that have her own lanes. It 0:11:43.840 --> 0:11:48.920 would likely make it more suspicious if you said, no on, 0:11:49.520 --> 0:11:52.400 I'm not going to participate in any Indian because he's 0:11:52.640 --> 0:11:55.680 always wanted to come across that she left the home 0:11:55.760 --> 0:11:56.200 that night. 0:11:56.640 --> 0:11:57.560 Never did he send. 0:11:57.360 --> 0:12:01.640 Again and how to strike you in that interview, I 0:12:01.760 --> 0:12:05.160 believe he wanted to put himself across as wanting to 0:12:05.200 --> 0:12:06.800 assist the police. 0:12:07.520 --> 0:12:09.760 He didn't ever indicate that he wanted to be leading 0:12:09.760 --> 0:12:10.479 he represented. 0:12:34.080 --> 0:12:37.840 Now let's return to the nineteen ninety eight police interview 0:12:37.960 --> 0:12:39.119 with John Winfield. 0:12:40.280 --> 0:12:42.839 I'm just going to read this onto the record here, 0:12:43.480 --> 0:12:46.080 and if you understand it, I'll just get you to 0:12:46.120 --> 0:12:51.240 acknowledge that the statement made by you accurately sets out 0:12:51.280 --> 0:12:55.080 the evidence which you will be prepared, if necessary, to 0:12:55.120 --> 0:12:58.440 give in court as a witness. The statement is true 0:12:58.520 --> 0:13:01.200 to the best of your knowledge and belief, and you 0:13:01.320 --> 0:13:04.439 make it knowing that if it is tended in evidence, 0:13:04.920 --> 0:13:08.400 you shall be liable to prosecution if you are rawfully 0:13:08.440 --> 0:13:12.640 stated in it anything which you know to be false 0:13:12.960 --> 0:13:15.959 or do not believe to be true. Do you give 0:13:15.960 --> 0:13:17.679 an undertaking to tell the truth? 0:13:17.760 --> 0:13:23.160 In his interview, Yeah, Yeah, John confirmed that he was 0:13:23.240 --> 0:13:27.120 still living at the house in Sandstone Crescent with Lauren 0:13:27.200 --> 0:13:27.840 and Crystal. 0:13:28.679 --> 0:13:31.520 The experienced bricklayer said he was not working. 0:13:32.760 --> 0:13:35.040 Do you agree that prior to the commencement of this 0:13:35.160 --> 0:13:38.360 interview I told you that I wanted to have a 0:13:38.400 --> 0:13:42.839 conversation with you about the disappearance of your wife at 0:13:42.960 --> 0:13:47.040 Lennox Head on or about the sixteenth of May nineteen 0:13:47.160 --> 0:13:47.839 ninety three. 0:13:48.800 --> 0:13:49.640 Yeah. 0:13:50.160 --> 0:13:53.680 John answered the early questions with what, in my view 0:13:53.800 --> 0:13:58.920 reads like an offhand or somewhat disinterested tone. It seems 0:13:59.000 --> 0:14:02.960 that Glenn was trying to build rapport, gently rolling the 0:14:03.120 --> 0:14:06.720 arm over with a series of easy questions at the start, 0:14:07.559 --> 0:14:11.760 when were they married, What was Bromwin's surname before they 0:14:11.760 --> 0:14:12.280 were wed? 0:14:13.240 --> 0:14:14.600 Where did they live when. 0:14:14.400 --> 0:14:17.360 They first went to Lenox Head from the Qunella Shire? 0:14:18.240 --> 0:14:22.160 When was Lauren born? He wanted John to get comfortable. 0:14:23.120 --> 0:14:26.120 Can you give us any names that she used to 0:14:26.240 --> 0:14:29.560 associate closely with in the early nineteen nineties? 0:14:29.720 --> 0:14:30.960 Close friends? 0:14:32.600 --> 0:14:37.600 Denise Barnard, probably the next door neighbor, Debbie Nolan. 0:14:38.680 --> 0:14:42.920 Do you know where Denise? I haven't seen. Yeah. 0:14:43.640 --> 0:14:47.360 I see Denisa around town occasionally talk to her, but 0:14:47.560 --> 0:14:51.560 I don't know where she's living, either Ballino or Lennox Head. 0:14:52.520 --> 0:14:56.400 I have talked to Denise about her limited contact with 0:14:56.480 --> 0:15:01.320 John after Bromin disappeared. Have you formed view about whether 0:15:01.600 --> 0:15:03.880 he did murder Roman? 0:15:04.360 --> 0:15:04.840 Yes? I have. 0:15:06.280 --> 0:15:09.000 Do you know when you formed a view like that? Right? 0:15:09.040 --> 0:15:11.600 But then I've always had that view. 0:15:12.320 --> 0:15:15.640 Did you effectively cut ties with John back then because 0:15:15.640 --> 0:15:16.200 of that view? 0:15:17.280 --> 0:15:20.040 Yes, not that he would have ever made an effort 0:15:20.120 --> 0:15:23.000 to be in contact with anyone. Really, He's not that 0:15:23.160 --> 0:15:26.120 sort of person. He would have been happy. I think 0:15:26.160 --> 0:15:28.640 once it all died down a little bit, when Lauren 0:15:28.720 --> 0:15:31.320 was at school. If it was ever in the paper 0:15:31.400 --> 0:15:35.320 Missing Person's Week Roman would appear, she'd be removed from school. 0:15:36.160 --> 0:15:38.760 She wouldn't be there, So he's just kept her protected 0:15:38.840 --> 0:15:42.600 all that time as well. High school, she was never 0:15:42.640 --> 0:15:45.640 there when anything was in the paper. I could never 0:15:45.760 --> 0:15:49.560 approach her say remember me, I mean she was little. 0:15:49.720 --> 0:15:50.720 Maybe she remembers me. 0:15:50.840 --> 0:15:51.360 I don't know. 0:15:51.800 --> 0:15:54.160 When I see her now, she's identical to a mom 0:15:54.240 --> 0:15:54.800 from behind. 0:15:55.840 --> 0:15:57.040 Do you ever talk to her? 0:16:00.360 --> 0:16:05.200 I didn't ever want to. I don't know, bring it 0:16:05.280 --> 0:16:08.280 up and pass my thoughts on to her, because obviously 0:16:08.320 --> 0:16:13.120 she still believes her dad. And what would you say, 0:16:13.480 --> 0:16:17.480 what haven't you mummy? I mean no, I've just did 0:16:17.560 --> 0:16:21.080 never go there, and we were never encouraged to see 0:16:21.120 --> 0:16:25.880 her after Bromwin disappeared by John. John just shielded those 0:16:25.960 --> 0:16:30.080 kids and nobody saw them. And he's very private. 0:16:30.520 --> 0:16:33.000 I guess it's possible to look at that with an 0:16:33.080 --> 0:16:37.560 understanding that he doesn't want his children to be reminded 0:16:37.600 --> 0:16:38.920 by rumormongers. 0:16:39.120 --> 0:16:39.480 Sure. 0:16:40.920 --> 0:16:44.480 Now back to the nineteen ninety eight interview by Glenn 0:16:44.520 --> 0:16:46.000 Taylor of John Winfield. 0:16:47.000 --> 0:16:49.960 Okay, the next person just said was a lady called. 0:16:49.720 --> 0:16:54.440 Nolan was it. Yeah, Debbie Nolan. Actually her name is 0:16:54.480 --> 0:16:58.400 really Debbie Hall. She's really my next door neighbor. 0:16:59.000 --> 0:16:59.440 Okay. 0:17:00.720 --> 0:17:03.400 Deb was one of the first people to contact me 0:17:03.520 --> 0:17:08.480 about doing a podcast investigation into Bromwin's suspected murder. You 0:17:08.640 --> 0:17:12.640 first heard her in the earliest episodes, and deb stays 0:17:12.680 --> 0:17:16.480 in touch, ringing and emailing me with information that she 0:17:16.640 --> 0:17:19.199 hears around the community of Lennox Head. 0:17:20.640 --> 0:17:22.080 And I thought, you know what, You've got to get 0:17:22.119 --> 0:17:24.040 away from this guy. You you call that miserable and 0:17:24.040 --> 0:17:24.919 he's controlling. 0:17:26.119 --> 0:17:28.480 And I did used to say to her from when, 0:17:28.760 --> 0:17:31.399 you know, when she'd had first crying sessions. 0:17:31.000 --> 0:17:33.760 About him out here, And I say, Brown, you can't 0:17:33.800 --> 0:17:34.280 live like this. 0:17:34.640 --> 0:17:36.000 You've got to get away from him. 0:17:36.280 --> 0:17:37.960 Oh but I've got nowhere to go, and I'll have 0:17:38.080 --> 0:17:40.320 no money and never And that went. 0:17:40.240 --> 0:17:40.960 On for a while. 0:17:43.359 --> 0:17:47.320 Apart from that, Oh wait a minute, there's another girl. 0:17:47.680 --> 0:17:50.600 I know someone spoke to her, but I can't even 0:17:50.640 --> 0:17:51.920 remember her second name. 0:17:52.280 --> 0:17:53.840 I know Graham spoke to her. 0:17:55.160 --> 0:17:58.000 The Graham that John is referring to is the then 0:17:58.080 --> 0:18:02.320 detective Sergeant Graham Disco and John was speaking about the 0:18:02.320 --> 0:18:06.480 woman that we are calling Joan. She has been concerned 0:18:06.480 --> 0:18:10.239 about her real name being published. The first time you 0:18:10.359 --> 0:18:15.280 heard her was in episode two. I'm not going to 0:18:15.400 --> 0:18:20.360 identify you by your name in this podcast, but your 0:18:20.440 --> 0:18:21.359 voice will be heard. 0:18:21.600 --> 0:18:25.080 Yeah, yeah, are you okay with that? And I understand 0:18:25.119 --> 0:18:26.679 that you've got personal reasons? 0:18:27.760 --> 0:18:32.679 Where would you like to start talking about your friend Brongwa. 0:18:33.240 --> 0:18:36.600 She loves to kill so that there's no way she 0:18:37.119 --> 0:18:41.640 willingly go off and leave her kids. 0:18:43.200 --> 0:18:45.960 Okay, Okay, We're going to move on a little bit now. 0:18:46.160 --> 0:18:52.240 Between nineteen ninety and say early nineteen ninety three, Yeah, 0:18:52.280 --> 0:18:54.440 what was happening in your family life? 0:18:55.280 --> 0:19:00.200 Oh well, we moved in the house in January nineteen ninety. 0:19:01.720 --> 0:19:02.680 My mother died. 0:19:02.720 --> 0:19:09.159 In September nineteen ninety, bronwin A was pregnant again. She 0:19:09.280 --> 0:19:12.399 had an abortion in I can't remember if that was 0:19:12.520 --> 0:19:16.280 ninety one or something, either ninety or ninety one, I 0:19:16.359 --> 0:19:20.439 just can't remember. I mean, we were going through a 0:19:20.440 --> 0:19:23.879 pretty tough time. I mean, like when mom died, I 0:19:23.920 --> 0:19:27.200 took it pretty tough, and sort of she got pregnant, 0:19:27.359 --> 0:19:32.320 which wasn't planned, and we decided, you know, we weren't 0:19:32.359 --> 0:19:35.320 going to have any more kids because at that stage, 0:19:35.359 --> 0:19:38.280 you know, we had three kids really living with us. 0:19:38.720 --> 0:19:43.800 We had my eldest daughter, Jodie Glenn Taylor. Circled back 0:19:43.880 --> 0:19:47.560 to the abortion. How did you How did Bromin feel 0:19:47.600 --> 0:19:51.560 about that? I don't know. I sort of, like I said, 0:19:52.040 --> 0:19:53.520 my mom died that year. 0:19:54.080 --> 0:19:56.240 I was really close to my mom, and I was 0:19:56.280 --> 0:19:58.920 probably I don't know, I mean took it. 0:19:59.400 --> 0:19:59.879 I don't know. 0:20:00.680 --> 0:20:04.879 See, mum died in September nineteen ninety. Yes, that was 0:20:05.119 --> 0:20:08.240 around about the time that she got pregnant. I think 0:20:08.960 --> 0:20:13.080 by memory, around about that time, alright, and it was 0:20:13.160 --> 0:20:15.840 just sort of too much for us to cope with. 0:20:16.680 --> 0:20:18.840 So we talked about it. We had three kids at 0:20:18.880 --> 0:20:21.280 that time and that was enough. 0:20:22.280 --> 0:20:26.480 Was there a point in time somewhere between say, Christmas 0:20:26.560 --> 0:20:30.280 in nineteen ninety two in March from ninety three where 0:20:30.320 --> 0:20:32.320 your marriage started to deteriorate? 0:20:33.320 --> 0:20:33.560 Oh? 0:20:33.640 --> 0:20:35.760 Yeah, Yeah, that's what's happened. 0:20:35.760 --> 0:20:40.080 That's what happened, you know, sort of sort of virtually 0:20:40.119 --> 0:20:42.520 as soon as Lauren got off to school, you know. 0:20:43.280 --> 0:20:46.400 Can you tell us about that all? Well? She reckons, 0:20:46.520 --> 0:20:47.119 she reckons. 0:20:47.160 --> 0:20:50.359 She told me just before we separated that she had 0:20:50.400 --> 0:20:53.000 a nervous breakdown in the in the January of nineteen 0:20:53.080 --> 0:20:56.240 ninety three. All right, and I said to her, you know, 0:20:56.760 --> 0:21:00.320 what's a nervous breakdown? I've heard of it, but can 0:21:00.359 --> 0:21:03.040 you tell me what it is? You know, I sort 0:21:03.080 --> 0:21:07.560 of didn't understand, but she reckoned. She had a nervous breakdown, 0:21:08.080 --> 0:21:10.879 and she went to see the doctor in Lennox. I 0:21:10.920 --> 0:21:13.959 don't know if it was doctor Watson or doctor Hughes. 0:21:14.600 --> 0:21:17.240 I don't know which one it was, but she went 0:21:17.280 --> 0:21:20.080 to one in Lennox and apparently she was being treated 0:21:20.119 --> 0:21:24.560 for depression, you know, like a nervous breakdown. Now, whether 0:21:24.600 --> 0:21:27.359 that's true or not, I don't know, but that's what 0:21:27.440 --> 0:21:28.000 she told me. 0:21:28.720 --> 0:21:31.600 You know, where did you have these discussions? 0:21:32.480 --> 0:21:35.000 You know what It's like you sort of round the 0:21:35.119 --> 0:21:38.960 house and you're sort of talking, and you know, what's 0:21:39.000 --> 0:21:41.800 going on with our marriage, that sort of this sort 0:21:41.840 --> 0:21:42.400 of stuff. 0:21:42.960 --> 0:21:44.560 Did this go over some weeks? 0:21:45.440 --> 0:21:48.840 Well, Lauren went off to school on what say, the 0:21:48.880 --> 0:21:52.400 first of February and ninety three, I think whatever day 0:21:52.480 --> 0:21:55.959 school started she started. Then she was still working in 0:21:55.960 --> 0:21:58.959 that job at the time, and virtually from that moment 0:21:59.440 --> 0:22:02.280 that was when she said to me, one of these days, 0:22:02.280 --> 0:22:05.720 I'm going to move out. I drove Lauren and Bronwin 0:22:05.840 --> 0:22:08.280 down to the school because I had a big day 0:22:08.400 --> 0:22:11.879 sort of starting up at school, and you know, things 0:22:11.920 --> 0:22:14.639 weren't sort of things were a bit funny, you know. 0:22:15.640 --> 0:22:16.240 I think I. 0:22:16.200 --> 0:22:19.480 Drove Lauren to school every day for the first week, 0:22:19.600 --> 0:22:22.720 you know, with her mum. And I can remember her 0:22:22.800 --> 0:22:27.760 going her mum walking to school with her and I said, gee, 0:22:27.760 --> 0:22:29.879 that took a long time, you know, because she was 0:22:29.960 --> 0:22:34.280 in therefore, it was probably fifteen minutes or so. And 0:22:34.320 --> 0:22:38.320 she said she came back and said, I just had 0:22:38.320 --> 0:22:41.000 to tell the teacher that we're separating. 0:22:41.880 --> 0:22:43.199 What did you feel about that? 0:22:44.640 --> 0:22:49.280 I was naturally surprised, you know, I mean, fair enough. 0:22:49.320 --> 0:22:53.600 I meant we weren't getting on particularly well. But I mean, geez, 0:22:53.840 --> 0:22:57.399 plenty of marriages go through funny times. I mean, we 0:22:57.440 --> 0:22:59.800 were never sort of fighting in front of the kids, 0:23:00.160 --> 0:23:02.600 sort of hitting each other or anything like that. 0:23:02.800 --> 0:23:03.080 You know. 0:23:04.080 --> 0:23:07.120 See what what's been suggested to me, and I don't 0:23:07.200 --> 0:23:10.720 know whether it's right, is when she had this bit 0:23:10.760 --> 0:23:13.359 of a job she had, it was virtually the first 0:23:13.440 --> 0:23:15.960 job she really had where she had money to herself, 0:23:16.800 --> 0:23:19.720 because she kept all the money herself, you know, and 0:23:19.800 --> 0:23:22.840 she got that little bit of independence. You know, it's 0:23:22.880 --> 0:23:25.879 been suggested to me sort of went to her head 0:23:26.280 --> 0:23:29.440 with that little bit of independence. She had her own money, 0:23:29.440 --> 0:23:30.360 and sort of she was. 0:23:30.320 --> 0:23:30.919 Off, you know. 0:23:32.400 --> 0:23:36.560 The detective asked John whether Bromwin was taking any medication 0:23:36.840 --> 0:23:37.520 at the time. 0:23:38.400 --> 0:23:40.480 Well, that's like I said. 0:23:40.200 --> 0:23:42.679 She said to me that she'd been treated for a 0:23:42.720 --> 0:23:47.040 nervous breakdown in January nineteen ninety three by one of 0:23:47.040 --> 0:23:50.960 the doctors in Lenox, you know, but I never saw 0:23:50.960 --> 0:23:52.119 her take any medication. 0:23:53.720 --> 0:23:57.040 Later, Glenn Taylor would go to see the doctors Bromwin 0:23:57.240 --> 0:24:01.040