Speaker 1: I get a team. It's Harps, it's the U Projects.
Speaker 1: Sally O'Connell and I go way back. She's a friend
Speaker 1: of mine from the nineties. She's that old. She's not
Speaker 1: as old as me because I was a grown up
Speaker 1: at the time when I first met her. She was
Speaker 1: in school, she was an athlete, she was a student,
Speaker 1: she was a triathlete, she was a bunch of things.
Speaker 1: And I'm going to tell you that we started this
Speaker 1: very podcast about ten minutes ago and then fuck something
Speaker 1: up significant, So we went rather than try and edit
Speaker 1: out that very messy fuck up. And we're not even
Speaker 1: going to say who, but one of us may have
Speaker 1: prematurely announced someone's death. Haha. We were talking about a
Speaker 1: person who we will not mention, and Sale said I
Speaker 1: think they died when I didn't know that, and then
Speaker 1: I checked and they didn't. So here we are version
Speaker 1: two high sal.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, what a start. But it just feels like
Speaker 2: old times. Craig always a laugh, always able to turn
Speaker 2: perhaps a you know, a situation into something positive. So yeah,
Speaker 2: great to be here and reminisce when we first met,
Speaker 2: when I was a kid training at your first personal
Speaker 2: training gym.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you were a kid, you were like, what were
Speaker 1: you seventeen years old or something? Yeah? Are you still
Speaker 1: We're going to jump all over the joint today and
Speaker 1: people will meet you and know who you are soon enough.
Speaker 1: But you still look very fit, and you like last
Speaker 1: time I saw you was And people say shit like this,
Speaker 1: but they don't mean it. I actually mean it. You
Speaker 1: look about as old as last time I saw you,
Speaker 1: which was maybe twenty years ago, which is very annoying
Speaker 1: because I currently look like my grandfather, which is fucking annoying.
Speaker 1: How often do you work out?
Speaker 2: Now?
Speaker 1: What's your protocol?
Speaker 2: It's so funny, like exercise has just been ingrained in
Speaker 2: me since I was a kid, so it's been always
Speaker 2: part of my life and I've continued to experiment with
Speaker 2: different things. But I've always done something runnings probably as
Speaker 2: you know, It's always been probably my main passion and
Speaker 2: probably the thing I've been the best at. Even when
Speaker 2: I did triathlon, I was better at the running than
Speaker 2: the riding and the swimming. So I definitely still run.
Speaker 2: I've done I've done marathons over the years. I've actually
Speaker 2: just signed up for Sydney Marathon which is at the
Speaker 2: end of August. But I haven't done one for nine years,
Speaker 2: so that's a big step up from what I what
Speaker 2: I've been doing typically, but I've done you know, really,
Speaker 2: to be honest, Craig, when I left working with you
Speaker 2: at Harper's and personal training and lifting weights, and if
Speaker 2: you remember, we did a lot of weight training, and
Speaker 2: you know, I was pretty I guess back then strong
Speaker 2: for a female. I got sicker gyms and lifting weights,
Speaker 2: so I kind of gave that, left that all behind
Speaker 2: and did more things like running and pilates and yoga,
Speaker 2: and I walk a lot. I often I often use
Speaker 2: exercise for even for meetings where I'll meet people and
Speaker 2: go for a run or a walk because it's a
Speaker 2: good double use of time. You sort of kill two birds.
Speaker 2: So yeah, it's still very fit, still a big part
Speaker 2: of my life. It's probably my one non negotiable because
Speaker 2: it translates really to everything else for me, you know,
Speaker 2: my mental health, my energy, all those sorts of things.
Speaker 2: So it's just something I'll continue to do for as
Speaker 2: long as my body allows me to.
Speaker 1: And I think, you know, apart from all that, like
Speaker 1: your brain works better, you're a better communicator, you get
Speaker 1: stressed less. I mean, you still get stressed, but you
Speaker 1: tend to manage emotional and psychological shit better when your
Speaker 1: body's in better shape. People don't I mean people who
Speaker 1: listen to me here this all the time. But I
Speaker 1: think the general public doesn't really understand how strong the
Speaker 1: relationship between psychology and physiology and emotion is. And if
Speaker 1: your body is not in good shape, it's going to
Speaker 1: affect how you think and how you feel. And if
Speaker 1: your emotions are not in good shape, it's going to
Speaker 1: affect how you think, and if physiology and if your
Speaker 1: mind's not in good shape, same you know, So it's this,
Speaker 1: it's this kind of three component system and everything affects
Speaker 1: everything all the time.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I know you like you've never it's
Speaker 2: probably been similar for you, non negotiable, and you know
Speaker 2: your strength training because you know it does actually even
Speaker 2: your confidence, and you know all those sorts of things
Speaker 2: like there's you know, our whole lives have been about
Speaker 2: health and wellness and fitness. I mean, you've made a
Speaker 2: living out of, you know, writing your books and podcasts
Speaker 2: and training people and training trainers to train people, and
Speaker 2: you know, there's a lot of knowledge that you've passed
Speaker 2: on to so many of us over the years.
Speaker 3: So yeah, it's a big part.
Speaker 2: It's my non negotiable and I'll sacrifice sleep for it,
Speaker 2: you know, I'll sacrifice family time for it. I mean
Speaker 2: that to sound wrong, but for me, I know I'm
Speaker 2: better with my family if I get that time in
Speaker 2: my day to exercise. And I'm not obsessive perhaps like
Speaker 2: I have been in periods when you knew me, Like,
Speaker 2: I'm not no means obsessive. You know, my diet's clean,
Speaker 2: but I don't obsess a lot less about that than
Speaker 2: perhaps I have in my younger years, where I was
Speaker 2: a lot, probably a lot more obsessive about what I
Speaker 2: put into my body.
Speaker 3: I don't worry about that now.
Speaker 2: That said, I'm very in tune and I still like
Speaker 2: to keep up to date with you know, what's going on,
Speaker 2: and as you would know, you know, there's a lot
Speaker 2: of I guess now discussion around your gut health and
Speaker 2: you know, the intermitt fasting and not just the impact
Speaker 2: that has on your physical body, but also your longevity.
Speaker 2: And now we you know, longevity is now something that
Speaker 2: I guess I'm more concerned about how do I continue
Speaker 2: to be health, to be well, and to continue to
Speaker 2: have it, you know, a really active life, because you
Speaker 2: know you do. You start to see people that you
Speaker 2: love around you that haven't looked after themselves, that you
Speaker 2: know that then experience ill health. And as you know,
Speaker 2: if we haven't got our health, then everything else becomes,
Speaker 2: you know, extremely different.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it puts I mean, health is the big perspective giver.
Speaker 1: You kind of realize when you get sick or when
Speaker 1: someone that you love gets sick. And we all know
Speaker 1: this it's a bit cliche, but like, if you haven't
Speaker 1: got your health, you haven't got much right And yeah,
Speaker 1: I've yeah, I've had a bunch of people around me
Speaker 1: die over the last few years, people that I love.
Speaker 1: I've had people that I care about get sick. One
Speaker 1: of my friends who I still see three times a week,
Speaker 1: he had a horrendous accident and he they said he'd die.
Speaker 1: And then they said, well, if he doesn't die, which
Speaker 1: he will, but if he doesn't, he'll be a quadriplegic.
Speaker 1: And you know, I have no cognitive function. And anyway,
Speaker 1: he pulled through and I started training him five months
Speaker 1: after his accident in a wheelchair. And my listeners know
Speaker 1: this story about John, but every time I see him,
Speaker 1: and now he can walk with sticks and he can talk,
Speaker 1: and his brain's not bad. You know, he's got a
Speaker 1: traumatic brain injury and a spinal cord injury. But he's
Speaker 1: a fucking weapon, you know. And you just when I
Speaker 1: look at him, and I spend time with him, and
Speaker 1: I don't know when I'm somewhat captivated with him, because
Speaker 1: he just he has shit going on that I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't think I could cope with. I don't think
Speaker 1: I'm as good as him. I don't think I'm as
Speaker 1: resilient as him. I'd like to think I am, but
Speaker 1: I think I'm full of shit. I think if I
Speaker 1: had had happened what he did, I might have fallen
Speaker 1: apart right. And I look at him and I think,
Speaker 1: when I spend time with people who've got real adversity,
Speaker 1: sell not bullshit adversity, which is I'm not talking about
Speaker 1: anyone particular. But you know, sometimes I get caught up
Speaker 1: in my own problems and then I meet someone with
Speaker 1: a real problem, and then my higher self goes shut
Speaker 1: the fuck up, like you don't have any problems like
Speaker 1: you have you have, you have one out of ten
Speaker 1: minor issues, and you act like you've got a nine
Speaker 1: and a half out of ten problems.
Speaker 2: So I think people like give you perspective. And like
Speaker 2: I was thinking, like, as you're telling that, but how did.
Speaker 3: That make you feel?
Speaker 2: Where you were part of his recovery and actually not
Speaker 2: believing what they told him his life and future was
Speaker 2: going to be, and say, well, you know, to use
Speaker 2: your language.
Speaker 3: You know if that I'm not going to do that,
Speaker 3: I'm going to actually buck what you're saying and do this.
Speaker 3: And I think absolutely gives you perspective. And I'm the same.
Speaker 2: I mean, I have probably a low tolerance for people
Speaker 2: that you know, probably complain about things that are first
Speaker 2: world problems and you know, the light because I think
Speaker 2: I've seen too much people that there's so much tragedy
Speaker 2: in people's lives and you wonder how they get on.
Speaker 3: And that does give you perspective.
Speaker 2: And I'm lucky you knows as tough as parts of
Speaker 2: my life have been since you and I knew each other, well,
Speaker 2: you know, it's all part of your learnings and it's
Speaker 2: what makes you stronger and you get the perspective.
Speaker 3: But yeah, it's it's.
Speaker 2: Definitely again part of what I guess since you know
Speaker 2: you learn along the way, and your biggest learning is
Speaker 2: usually come from your hardest challengers. But yeah, definitely feel
Speaker 2: fortunate that I really haven't had a lot of that
Speaker 2: very tough tragedy in my personal life.
Speaker 3: I've seen it around him like you have.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean for me working with him and people
Speaker 1: like him. This sounds a going cliche, but I don't care.
Speaker 1: It's like it's a gift, Like he's given me more
Speaker 1: than I've given him, Like I've given him some knowledge
Speaker 1: and some time and some love. But he's just like
Speaker 1: he makes me see things differently, Like he never has
Speaker 1: I mean never, not one day a year does he
Speaker 1: have a pain free day. So he's in constant chronic pain.
Speaker 1: So it's not a matter of if he's in pain,
Speaker 1: it's just what number out of ten? And so when
Speaker 1: he says I'm an eight out of ten pain, that
Speaker 1: for me would probably be a twenty out of ten. Right.
Speaker 1: But when he comes to the gym and he walks
Speaker 1: in with his sticks and it takes him, you know,
Speaker 1: two minutes to walk twenty feet, and you know I
Speaker 1: have to lift him up and down off benches, or
Speaker 1: at least the very least help him hold him, but
Speaker 1: his he never complains when I go, you know, what's
Speaker 1: what's the pain level? And He'll give me a number
Speaker 1: and I'm like, okay, all right, well do you want
Speaker 1: to still train? He goes, I'm here, and I go
Speaker 1: all right, fucking hell, you know, all right? And yeah,
Speaker 1: he teaches me more than I teach him, especially when
Speaker 1: it comes to just you know, shutting the fuck up
Speaker 1: and don't overthink things. And it's like, very much. I
Speaker 1: just had a conversation with doctor Jody Richardson, who's a psychologist,
Speaker 1: and we're talking about or who specializes PhD, who specialize
Speaker 1: things in anxiety, but we're talking about literally, well what's
Speaker 1: in your control and what's not? You know, So what's
Speaker 1: he can't wake up tomorrow without a spinal call injury
Speaker 1: or a traumatic brain injury. He can't. So every day
Speaker 1: he goes, well, this is what I have. I've got
Speaker 1: a spinal cord injury. I've got a brain injury. He's
Speaker 1: got a bag, he's got a catheter. He can't we
Speaker 1: he can't pooh. Normally, he's like his life. I'm sorry
Speaker 1: if this upsets anyone, but this is the reality of
Speaker 1: his life. His life is fucking hard, but he never
Speaker 1: once says, jeez, my life's hard. And for me, I
Speaker 1: love being around that because you know, I'm spoiled. I'm
Speaker 1: an only child. I grew up in relative privilege, like
Speaker 1: I'm a big fucking baby. I need to be around that,
Speaker 1: you know. So for me, that stuff is a gift. Hey,
Speaker 1: I'm going to hit the pause button then tell you
Speaker 1: something just because I looked it up while you were
Speaker 1: talking about running marathons. Did you know that bloke broke
Speaker 1: broke the world half marathon record? Are you? Gan? And
Speaker 1: dude whose name escapes me and I'm looking at it's
Speaker 1: not written here, but anyway, listen to this. He ran
Speaker 1: a half marathon. Now, remember everyone, this is twenty one
Speaker 1: point one case, have a guess at his time, So
Speaker 1: have a guess.
Speaker 3: Okay, marathon. He broke the record. So I'm going to
Speaker 3: say it sounds outrageous, but like under an hour or something. Stupid.
Speaker 1: Yep, fifty six forty two.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I can't drive my car that fast.
Speaker 1: Crank fifty six. Now, for people who don't and that's
Speaker 1: of course, that's that's normal. But for people who don't
Speaker 1: understand what that means, that is fucking ridiculous, Like he
Speaker 1: broke the pre Now, normally a record like that, generally
Speaker 1: it's not going to be beaten, hardly of it. But
Speaker 1: I mean the previous world record was fifty seven thirty.
Speaker 1: This dude beat the world record by forty eight seconds,
Speaker 1: which is.
Speaker 3: That's like a five hundred meters Like no, it's.
Speaker 1: Like, well, at that pace, it's probably three four hundred.
Speaker 1: It's at least three hundred metres. But anyway, yeah, crazy.
Speaker 1: So now, now what we didn't touch on because we
Speaker 1: did in the first podcast that we fucked up, is
Speaker 1: that is it you? So you started training with me
Speaker 1: when you were a kid, and then when you were
Speaker 1: still relatively a kid, you were you started working as
Speaker 1: a trainer at my place at Harper's when personal training
Speaker 1: was just becoming a thing. What do you what do
Speaker 1: you remember about that?
Speaker 2: Well, you were you were the trailblazer around saying I've
Speaker 2: seen this personal training, you know, not having gym memberships,
Speaker 2: but I'm going to go and have a private studio.
Speaker 2: There's no such thing as a membership. You can't just
Speaker 2: come in and use the equipment. It's actually one on
Speaker 2: one appointments. And yeah, you you you kind of created
Speaker 2: it here as far as we knew, I mean, a
Speaker 2: real trail blazer. And again, I guess I was very
Speaker 2: attracted to, you know, what you were trying to do.
Speaker 2: So I think you know, you saw some maybe a
Speaker 2: bit of ambition in me wanting to be good at
Speaker 2: triathlon and sort of said I'll help train you. And
Speaker 2: I think in a way, you know, you did that
Speaker 2: out of probably more just being generous than me even
Speaker 2: paying you are curring any comfort. But it was very
Speaker 2: aspirational at the time as well. So you know, I
Speaker 2: think the people that used to come it was it
Speaker 2: was almost like, you know, only the really wealthy sort
Speaker 2: of families we knew could come along and have a trainer.
Speaker 2: And yeah, you created this really awesome culture where there
Speaker 2: was a flow of trainers. We're all trainers, we're all friends.
Speaker 2: You know, we had one on one appointments with our clients.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of interaction between the trainers and the
Speaker 2: clients and each other's clients that there.
Speaker 3: Was a whole community around it.
Speaker 2: And it was a really like I look back on
Speaker 2: that part of my life and it was foundational to
Speaker 2: so many other things. When I reflect, many friendships there
Speaker 2: was a marriage for me in there as you know,
Speaker 2: you know, there was a.
Speaker 3: Lot of stuff over those years.
Speaker 2: But yeah, like for me, you were very influential, probably
Speaker 2: as one of my first bosses.
Speaker 1: Really, it's funny I think now, sal about the shit
Speaker 1: that went on that we couldn't even mention.
Speaker 3: Right, No, you remember that shit that went on? Oh
Speaker 3: there was so social media then, Craig.
Speaker 1: I mean I wouldn't have had a career. I mean,
Speaker 1: there was so much inappropriate shit that went on, and
Speaker 1: might I say, quite often by the clients, not by me.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you remember. I don't know if
Speaker 1: you remember what happened at my thirtieth birthday one of
Speaker 1: the clients organized Oh fuck it, I'm just going to
Speaker 1: say it. I didn't organize this. One of my clients
Speaker 1: organized Miss Nude Australia to come in to the gym, right,
Speaker 1: And I firstly you might think, I'm like, I one
Speaker 1: hundred percent did not want that. And the lady, it
Speaker 1: was a lady who organized it. Could you imagine that?
Speaker 1: Now this was nineteen ninety was it, no, nineteen ninety three, Well,
Speaker 1: well yeah.
Speaker 3: It would have been ninety two ninety three.
Speaker 1: That was then well ninety three. I was born in
Speaker 1: sixty three, so it was ninety three, right, Yeah, I'm like,
Speaker 1: all I could think about was, fuck, this is it.
Speaker 1: This is the end of my business. This is the
Speaker 1: end of my career, like imagine hr and I'm I'm
Speaker 1: I hated every second of it. But what was funny
Speaker 1: was it was primarily I thin fact, it was like
Speaker 1: nine point thirty in the morning. I think it was
Speaker 1: pretty much all ladies in the gym. I'm sure the
Speaker 1: response would be different now, but they thought it was
Speaker 1: fucking hilarious.
Speaker 3: Oh we did.
Speaker 2: And like what you said, it's just society's move too,
Speaker 2: because the things we used to say across the floor, Yes,
Speaker 2: but we all came from a good place. No one
Speaker 2: meanted any harm on anyone. It was funny and at
Speaker 2: the time, it was okay at the time, and you know,
Speaker 2: fortunately we've grown up and we're aware that society's expectations
Speaker 2: have moved and some of those things we said we
Speaker 2: can no longer say.
Speaker 3: But we're all still friends. Like you know, there was
Speaker 3: no harm, no one was harmed.
Speaker 1: It's good speak yourself. I have and grown up all right,
Speaker 1: So we'll jump around a little bit. But you recently
Speaker 1: got a new gig, which congratulations. You are the CEO
Speaker 1: of Abercrombie's. What is Abercrombie's.
Speaker 2: So Abercrombie's is a real estate firm based in Melbourne.
Speaker 2: So we've got one office in Amada in Melbourne and
Speaker 2: about thirty five staff and we pretty much sell luxury,
Speaker 2: prestigious residential real estate. So it's a twenty year old
Speaker 2: business founded by a three people that sort of left
Speaker 2: I guess competing firms at the time, and they've built
Speaker 2: this wonderful business and I've got to know, I guess
Speaker 2: the directors aboard. I've been in the industry now for
Speaker 2: sort of I guess, you know, coming onto fifteen odd
Speaker 2: years in different roles, and I've cut my teeth on
Speaker 2: some pretty challenging roles to get myself here.
Speaker 3: But yeah, it's a really good for me.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: I've worked hard to allow myself the opportunities of something
Speaker 2: like this, and I'm.
Speaker 3: Here to help you help grow the business.
Speaker 2: I guess, you know, real estate, like all the industries,
Speaker 2: are being disrupted by many things all the time. So
Speaker 2: I'm going to take all my learnings from my banking
Speaker 2: days and selling real estate myself, and I've been in
Speaker 2: sort of different sides of the real estate industry and
Speaker 2: different roles, you know, for some very good companies where
Speaker 2: I've learned a lot and try and sort of take
Speaker 2: a lot of those learnings, and you know, right back
Speaker 2: to the learnings of you know, how to keep myself
Speaker 2: fit and healthy and mentally strong because it all applies.
Speaker 2: But yeah, acted me mostly creative the people, and I
Speaker 2: reflect on my career, you know, over the years since
Speaker 2: I was a personal trainer, you know, I made a
Speaker 2: transition into finance, banking and finance and you know, in
Speaker 2: the corporate world for many many years, and and then
Speaker 2: you know, was able to transition that into the real
Speaker 2: estate industry and roles within real estate industry, both on the.
Speaker 3: Corporate side but also in the in the I guess the.
Speaker 2: Business side, and you know, I guess for me, so
Speaker 2: much of what I apply every day, you know, comes
Speaker 2: back to looking after the people and myself, because I
Speaker 2: think that's how you get the best out of people.
Speaker 1: It's to me. It seems I've actually done a lot
Speaker 1: of gigs in real estate, but not not with you obviously, but.
Speaker 3: Different we might have to book one in Graig well, what.
Speaker 1: I mean is often at conferences. But I've done I've
Speaker 1: done individual ones. In fact, I did a year. I
Speaker 1: won't say who, but I did a whole year with
Speaker 1: real estate group, and every month I would turn up
Speaker 1: and I would do So I've done lots of work
Speaker 1: with real estate. But for me, I think I think
Speaker 1: lots of industries Now, don't yell at meself, just let
Speaker 1: me get it out. I think lots of industries have
Speaker 1: can have a bit of a brand problem or a
Speaker 1: little bit of I think people don't necessarily trust people
Speaker 1: who sell shit right, And so I think the challenge
Speaker 1: is how do we sell shit with integrity? And how
Speaker 1: do we be authentic and honest and real. And of
Speaker 1: course we've still got to make profit. We've still got
Speaker 1: to we've got to meet, you know, the the client's
Speaker 1: needs all round. But yeah, I think it's a tough
Speaker 1: industry because even me, if I'm going to go buy something,
Speaker 1: I'm wary. I don't like, I don't I trust pretty slowly,
Speaker 1: and I assume that ninety percent of what's coming out
Speaker 1: of old mate's mouth is probably bullshit or a version
Speaker 1: of bullshit. And so how do you how do you
Speaker 1: how do you bring that together where you sell shit
Speaker 1: and everyone knows you've got to make profit, which is cool,
Speaker 1: but you're not seen as the seen as the sleazy, scammy, slimy,
Speaker 1: fucking sales at all cost person.
Speaker 2: Yeah, look, it's it's a it is a huge dilemma
Speaker 2: in the industry and unfortunately it does have a bad name,
Speaker 2: and for good reason, because you know, there is people
Speaker 2: within the industry that have you know, potentially treated people.
Speaker 3: To the point that they do feel like it's a
Speaker 3: bit sleezy.
Speaker 2: And you know, it's very much transactional, and so it
Speaker 2: is a challenge and even for me personally. When I
Speaker 2: left you a corporate you know, well establed, like well
Speaker 2: regarded like McCrory bank, you know, great brand, aspirational, well
Speaker 2: respected by most people. In fact, you just sort of
Speaker 2: had to say you work at McCrory and people think
Speaker 2: you're smart, like it was a really good good name
Speaker 2: to have on your CV.
Speaker 1: Help, I work at Macquarie. Thanks for that.
Speaker 2: Real estate is quite the opposite, and there's there is
Speaker 2: a real stigma. So you know, you often have this
Speaker 2: almost personal sort of you know, in a dialogue of
Speaker 2: dilemma of going well you know, I don't want people
Speaker 2: seeing me as like another dodgy kind of real estate agent,
Speaker 2: and that's you know, sort of reflecting probably more on me.
Speaker 2: But to answer your question, yeah, the industry does have
Speaker 2: not the best reputation. I think if you looked at
Speaker 2: people on the trust spectrum, you know, we're probably at
Speaker 2: the very bottom. If not, you know, it's from car
Speaker 2: sales people like, we're kind of down.
Speaker 3: There, so it's not great.
Speaker 2: But to answer your question, what attracted me to this
Speaker 2: business and the people is I do see them as
Speaker 2: the quality ones with integrity.
Speaker 3: You know, I really am.
Speaker 2: For all my learnings of all the jobs I've had
Speaker 2: and the people I've worked with and the like. It's
Speaker 2: the people that you were with that really determine whether
Speaker 2: you are going to be successful there or not, and
Speaker 2: whether you are going to have I guess, a successful
Speaker 2: relationship working with them, because if you are, you know,
Speaker 2: surrounded by dodgy agents who are dickheads, then you know,
Speaker 2: again no one's going to like that wouldn't serve me.
Speaker 2: So our brand does stand for you know, I guess
Speaker 2: in the market, not through anything other than the word
Speaker 2: of mouth and the reputation of repeat and referral business
Speaker 2: because if you do do the right thing, you are
Speaker 2: seen as oh wow, that's refreshing.
Speaker 3: There's an agent that actually.
Speaker 2: Has has told me, you know, told me with transparency
Speaker 2: what's going on, and has treated me well and has
Speaker 2: understood my position and the stress of you know, selling,
Speaker 2: you know, selling real estate stressful.
Speaker 3: The industry can look very glamorous and you know, there's
Speaker 3: a very.
Speaker 2: Thin veneer though, between a real estate agent their flashy
Speaker 2: car and their watch and actually the job itself, which
Speaker 2: can be quite challenging and difficult.
Speaker 3: And I think you'd be interested in this.
Speaker 2: Like you know, even I'm on the board of Rise Initiative,
Speaker 2: which is designed around supporting the mental wellness of the
Speaker 2: industry because the industry actually over indexes on anxiety and
Speaker 2: mental health issues because of the way society sees them,
Speaker 2: because of rejection, because of the way they're paid. Because
Speaker 2: you can actually put in hours and hours and years
Speaker 2: of work and still not even earn minimum wage. So
Speaker 2: there's a lot of challenge that comes with it. It's
Speaker 2: a low barrier to entry. So again the quality of
Speaker 2: the people that enter the industry, you know, they're not
Speaker 2: as well educated.
Speaker 3: Often they haven't been to.
Speaker 2: They haven't finished school, or they haven't had tertiary education,
Speaker 2: or they haven't really worked inside any other environment. So
Speaker 2: you know, there's a bit of a lower barrier instry,
Speaker 2: so the quality can then be obviously compared to people
Speaker 2: that have continued to have professional development through their working lives.
Speaker 2: So many many factors, but one I'm very passionate about.
Speaker 2: And I think there is good people within the industry,
Speaker 2: and you know, you will rise.
Speaker 3: To the top if you do the right thing, and
Speaker 3: you'll have a long career.
Speaker 2: And you know, again it's a relationship business at the
Speaker 2: end of the day, so selling, you know, becomes I
Speaker 2: guess secondary to building great relationships with people that do
Speaker 2: actually trust what You've got to.
Speaker 1: Say, Yeah, I bought a car years ago. Do you
Speaker 1: remember Rick Wallaney?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, sadly Rick passed away, God bless, But I
Speaker 1: used to buy cars off Rick. Rick owned a bunch
Speaker 1: of car dealerships, and then I started dealing with another
Speaker 1: guy called Ben and I bought anyway, I ended up
Speaker 1: buying I reckon over the years, which this is an
Speaker 1: indictment on me, but I've probably bought ten cars off
Speaker 1: Ben right, And the reason I buy cars off. Ben
Speaker 1: is not because he sells the cars that I want necessarily,
Speaker 1: but because he is honest. Now I've told this probably
Speaker 1: once or twice, so apologies, but not the last time.
Speaker 1: But I don't know. Maybe fifteen years ago I bought
Speaker 1: from him, and I bought my mum three cars for him.
Speaker 1: I bought my dad a calf through him, Mum through him.
Speaker 1: I bought a Toyota Prato, right, just a bloody regular Toyota, right.
Speaker 1: And I rang him up and I went, you know,
Speaker 1: this is what I want. And he goes, what color?
Speaker 1: What do you want on it? And I gave him
Speaker 1: all the shit and he goes, what's the best price
Speaker 1: you've got because he knows all right, ring around and anyway,
Speaker 1: he goes, all right, I ring you back in a minute,
Speaker 1: and he rings me back five minutes later and he goes, yeah,
Speaker 1: I can do it for X, which was about five
Speaker 1: thousand dollars cheaper than the absolute best. Right. Then he goes,
Speaker 1: when do you want it? And I go when can
Speaker 1: I have it? Now? He was in Werribee and I said, well,
Speaker 1: I can't get out there in the next few days
Speaker 1: because I'm up to my eyeballs with one thousand things.
Speaker 1: He goes, oh, I'll put it on a truck. I'll
Speaker 1: get it to you. Is that all right? So I
Speaker 1: go sure, So he sends me the truck, sends me
Speaker 1: the prato on a truck. The next day, the guy
Speaker 1: comes in, gives me the paperwork, gives me the keys,
Speaker 1: and goes. And then the person who then ran my life.
Speaker 1: I think it was Kim, who was my then PA
Speaker 1: person business manager. She paid all the bills and did
Speaker 1: all that shit anyway, like bibbity Bobby Boo, got my
Speaker 1: new car done. And then about two months later I
Speaker 1: said to I think it was Kim. I can't even
Speaker 1: remember why, but I just went maybe I looked at
Speaker 1: the bank balance and there was more money than I thought, right.
Speaker 1: I said, we paid for the prato, right, and she's
Speaker 1: like no. I'm like, so I had this car for
Speaker 1: two months that I didn't pay for and I owned
Speaker 1: it right, but I hadn't paid the bill. And I
Speaker 1: rang him and I went, here you go, and he's
Speaker 1: like and he goes, how the prato. I go, the
Speaker 1: prato is amazing. He goes, well, why are you bring men?
Speaker 1: Do you want something else? I go no, He goes,
Speaker 1: what's wrong. I go, I haven't paid you for the prato.
Speaker 1: He's like, oh, so pay I'm like, okay, all right.
Speaker 1: He goes anything else nah see yah. Like that's what
Speaker 1: I love.
Speaker 3: Like complete, standout, complete, And I know that.
Speaker 1: Of course, people have got to make money. I know
Speaker 1: you're making money on me. I don't resent that, of course,
Speaker 1: but there's just a way. It's like when I go
Speaker 1: and do a corporate gig. I'm not doing it for free,
Speaker 1: like a costs a lot. But what I want to
Speaker 1: do is I want to underpromise and over deliver. I
Speaker 1: want to if you pay X, I want to give
Speaker 1: you five X value. So you go, yeah, we paid
Speaker 1: a fair bit for Craig, but fucking hell he was amazing.
Speaker 1: Let's get him back.
Speaker 3: Correct.
Speaker 1: That's what I want to do. I mean. And whether
Speaker 1: or not you're selling cars, houses, corporate speaking, fucking widgets,
Speaker 1: you know, pizzas, whatever you're selling, I think that even
Speaker 1: if it's an expensive product, people can still see it
Speaker 1: as great value if the service around it is phenomenal.
Speaker 3: Couldn't agree more. I couldn't agree more.
Speaker 2: And to actually build that reputation where you know, within
Speaker 2: the industry, where there is a sea of average and
Speaker 2: ordinary and bad experiences. The sad part is, Craig, it's
Speaker 2: actually not that hard to stand out and do the
Speaker 2: right thing and get referrals and get people talking about
Speaker 2: you like, you know, like you saw.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: I guess the you know a lot of the media
Speaker 2: of me coming here. What that's done for me, you know,
Speaker 2: because the relationships that I've built LinkedIn is an amazing thing.
Speaker 2: But the rightships I've built over the thirty years of
Speaker 2: working in different you know, with in different companies, in
Speaker 2: different industries and all those things.
Speaker 3: And I've never really burned a bridge.
Speaker 2: I've always been done the right thing by the company,
Speaker 2: you know, by the people, because that's just something that's
Speaker 2: the way I am. But that comes back to you
Speaker 2: because people then go, oh my god, Sally, she's great.
Speaker 2: You've got to talk to her about selling your house,
Speaker 2: you know, that type of thing, and that's the sort
Speaker 2: of business that you want to create, so that everything
Speaker 2: you said, it's less selling, it's actually just building great
Speaker 2: relationships with people, doing the right thing, having good integrity.
Speaker 2: And then look, you can't control what's going on in
Speaker 2: the market. You can't control what's happening with interest rates
Speaker 2: like that is out of an agent's control.
Speaker 3: You know, we can't the forces of the.
Speaker 2: Market and people feeling like they didn't get what their
Speaker 2: house was worth, or you know, buyers feeling like they
Speaker 2: had to overpay and the agent you know, told assists
Speaker 2: and it was this.
Speaker 3: And all those things. Like a lot of that's out
Speaker 3: of our control.
Speaker 2: But unfortunately a lot of people like to sort of
Speaker 2: blame the agent for when things don't go according to
Speaker 2: what they thought should happen.
Speaker 3: So again, it's really.
Speaker 2: Important that you just maintain that, you know, those relationships
Speaker 2: so that that part doesn't actually become an issue because
Speaker 2: you've been very transparent through the process. So it's yeah,
Speaker 2: it's look, it's a it's a it's an industry that
Speaker 2: has a lot of characters in it.
Speaker 3: It's a lot of fun. It's not unlike personal training.
Speaker 3: There's a lot of fun. There's a lot of banter.
Speaker 3: We work really hard, the team works really hard. It
Speaker 3: is it is seven days a week. People expect to
Speaker 3: have your phone on all the time.
Speaker 2: It does compromise a lot of agents that have families
Speaker 2: and their time.
Speaker 3: They don't see the kids.
Speaker 2: Sport on Saturdays, there's a lot of sacrifice that comes
Speaker 2: with it. And the truth is that there's only a
Speaker 2: small percentage that do really, really well. When you see
Speaker 2: it in the you know, the perception of looking outside
Speaker 2: of looking in. Like I said, that sort of veneer
Speaker 2: of the flashiness and you know, the exraorberant commissions that
Speaker 2: you can earn if you sell a really high value house.
Speaker 2: It's a very small percentage of the industry. The majority
Speaker 2: of the industry are really hard working people, you know,
Speaker 2: making you know, fairly sort of average average income.
Speaker 1: If I'm a superstar cell not necessarily at Abercrombie's, So
Speaker 1: let's just generalize.
Speaker 3: I'm at employee Craig. Well, I think you've got good
Speaker 3: integrity'd be good for us.
Speaker 1: I'll keep that in mind. If I've got if I'm
Speaker 1: a superstar and i sell a ten million dollar house,
Speaker 1: what's my commission give or take?
Speaker 3: Probably roughly one percent at that price range, So.
Speaker 1: One hundred grand yep, buckety fuck. Hey everybody, this is
Speaker 1: my last episode of the New Project. It's been great,
Speaker 1: all the best over and out. You'll find me at
Speaker 1: Abercrombie's from Monday.
Speaker 2: And that's what that's what a lot of people see
Speaker 2: and they're like, how how hard can that be?
Speaker 3: I can do that.
Speaker 2: It takes years often to get the ten million dollar listing,
Speaker 2: or you can get really lucky and you could get
Speaker 2: that in your first few years. But you know, most
Speaker 2: agents have committed to it for teen, twenty thirty years
Speaker 2: and it's a long game, and it is it can
Speaker 2: be very lucrative, but there's also a lot of agents
Speaker 2: that don't make a craig and there's a lot that
Speaker 2: there's a lot of turnover in the industry because they
Speaker 2: actually probably can't even make you know, ends meet to
Speaker 2: make a living. So you've got the boat, you've actually
Speaker 2: got the extremes, which isn't.
Speaker 1: Great, but the same mean anything like we think about it.
Speaker 1: You know, this is a very different level. But I
Speaker 1: remember fifteen years ago I had one particular client, or
Speaker 1: Ion mentioned their name. Great client, not mentioning the name
Speaker 1: for any whereasons probably just not appropriate, but do I say, yeah,
Speaker 1: fuck it. So this client, oh fifteen or nearly twenty
Speaker 1: years ago, was paying two hundred and fifty bucks a
Speaker 1: workout and when everybody else was paying fifty dollars. And
Speaker 1: it wasn't because it was because I didn't really want
Speaker 1: to train people. Like I was at the point where
Speaker 1: I'd done a million, and I'm like, I'm not training people.
Speaker 1: I'm doing corporate. I'd gone back to university, I was
Speaker 1: lecturing at university. I've done stuff. I was, you know,
Speaker 1: writing books, i was writing for the heralds all this shit.
Speaker 1: So I just made my hourly rate ridiculous really, not
Speaker 1: so that I would get paid that, I mean, it
Speaker 1: was ridiculous back then, but so that people would go
Speaker 1: and train with my trainers for fifty or sixty dollars
Speaker 1: rather than me. I'd go, look, you can do the
Speaker 1: same workout in the same gym with someone who's really
Speaker 1: fucking good. And some of them would still say no,
Speaker 1: I want you imber.
Speaker 3: Some of them yeah.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, this is this is putting aside my ego.
Speaker 1: But this is just really interesting from a psychological perspective
Speaker 1: and a perceived value perspective. Like the psychologist.
Speaker 2: Before, it's the perceived value, right, it's the scarcity. It's
Speaker 2: also the scarcity, and if people see the value, they're
Speaker 2: prepared to pay that's ultimately like, again, you can't you
Speaker 2: can't buy twenty years of experience and research and knowledge
Speaker 2: and trial and error, and because you were trailblazer, right,
Speaker 2: you actually introduce things to people's health and fitness that
Speaker 2: no one else had done and it changed their lives.
Speaker 3: So two point fifty was probably cheap.
Speaker 1: Well, I always say to people, I don't know about that,
Speaker 1: But I say to people, you know, like every now
Speaker 1: and then someone will reach out. I think a lot
Speaker 1: of people don't really obviously understand how much corporate speaking
Speaker 1: with good corporate speakers, someone who is a real deal,
Speaker 1: lots of experience, lots of knowledge, lots of skill, they
Speaker 1: do a great job. They get good outcomes like how
Speaker 1: much that is per hour? Right? And then every now
Speaker 1: and then, you know, so if like Abercrombie's ring me
Speaker 1: up and go we want you to talk at our
Speaker 1: app YEP, and I go at cost this, You're you're
Speaker 1: not going to fall up your chair. You're going to
Speaker 1: go Yeah, that kind of is about what we thought, right,
Speaker 1: But other people are like, are you fucking kidding me?
Speaker 1: Because they don't really understand, right. And obviously, if it
Speaker 1: wasn't worth that, people wouldn't pay that, or if people
Speaker 1: didn't feel it was worth it, people wouldn't pay it.
Speaker 1: But I always say you're not paying for an hour.
Speaker 1: You're paying for like forty years of forty years of knowledge,
Speaker 1: forty years of experience, You've read forty years of like, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's what you're getting. You're getting forty years of me
Speaker 1: and all the shit that I've learned that I know,
Speaker 1: and my skill and my stories and my experience. That's
Speaker 1: what you're paying for. It's not it's a bit I understand.
Speaker 2: Both players get paid so much price money because they've
Speaker 2: dedicated their whole lives to get to the top.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to talk quickly about or slowly. So
Speaker 1: one of the things that I'm fascinated with, and one
Speaker 1: of the things that I actually talk about corporately a
Speaker 1: lot is relationships and communication and teamwork and culture. And
Speaker 1: it's interesting because, like you said, back in the day
Speaker 1: when you worked at Harper's, we had We certainly didn't
Speaker 1: do everything right. We certainly looking back, but you can't
Speaker 1: say that for the most part, for most of the time,
Speaker 1: it wasn't a great culture. That was maybe the standout feature.
Speaker 1: It was a great culture. It was fun, everyone wanted,
Speaker 1: Clients love being there, trainers love being there. It was
Speaker 1: an environment that we seem to thrive in. And so
Speaker 1: when I go into an environment that's toxic to me,
Speaker 1: it's like, oh my god, I only have to get
Speaker 1: four feet in the door, and I go, fuck, there's
Speaker 1: something about this joint that's not right. And then trying
Speaker 1: to help the management slash leadership whoever that is, to
Speaker 1: get their head around what a culture is and how
Speaker 1: to build it, because it's not like you can just
Speaker 1: get three people to come in and build something in
Speaker 1: the corner and now we've got one. Because it's such
Speaker 1: a multi dimensional thing, and it's about the boss or bosses.
Speaker 1: It's about the employees, it's about the rules and REGs,
Speaker 1: it's about the environment. It's about so many things. And
Speaker 1: if I said to you, do you want a good culture?
Speaker 1: I'm sure you have one already, but do you want
Speaker 1: to have a great culture? Are you going to go yes?
Speaker 1: What can you do as the boss? Two? I guess
Speaker 1: improve the culture, understand when things aren't working, and like
Speaker 1: with that, putting aside the sale stuff and the bottom
Speaker 1: line and the profitability and all that just for one moment,
Speaker 1: focusing on the human stuff, the people stuff. How do
Speaker 1: you navigate that or how do you consciously this is
Speaker 1: the longest fucking question of all time, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean? Like the page, how do you do the
Speaker 1: people stuff without getting nooses out of joint?
Speaker 2: Well, I think it is a people thing, and I
Speaker 2: think about from my experience of environments where it's been
Speaker 2: a great culture harpers versus a toxic culture.
Speaker 3: Which ultimately ended up in me leaving.
Speaker 2: So you kind of know, Okay, there's elements of culture
Speaker 2: that I know I thrived in and I know brought
Speaker 2: out the best in me and brought out the discussiony
Speaker 2: effort and maybe want to turn up and do the
Speaker 2: extra because it is about trying to bring out the
Speaker 2: best in people as a leader. So what were things
Speaker 2: that I really enjoyed in my experiences and what can
Speaker 2: I bring from that to the team. And obviously there's
Speaker 2: new generations coming through and what I wanted could be
Speaker 2: different to what they want now, So being aware of
Speaker 2: that number one, But also there is some there is
Speaker 2: some quick wins in there too, Craig, And yes, I
Speaker 2: am I was attracted to the role, but I was
Speaker 2: more attracted to the people and what I knew from
Speaker 2: an outside looking in. And obviously you don't know until
Speaker 2: you walk in and you can go for a job
Speaker 2: interview and think it's amazing, and you can walk in
Speaker 2: there and within a couple of weeks going what the
Speaker 2: hell have I done? And because of the cult, because
Speaker 2: of the culture, or because of a toxic leader, or
Speaker 2: whatever it might be. But I guess to me, it's
Speaker 2: just understanding, because it's quite a small team still, it's
Speaker 2: for me probably understanding where each of them are at
Speaker 2: in their own personal careers, but also importantly where they
Speaker 2: want to go, and then trying to create an environment
Speaker 2: that gives them a path of being able to get
Speaker 2: to where they want to grow, and you know, creating
Speaker 2: an energy around that. And I think one thing that
Speaker 2: has been feedback to me in the sort of the
Speaker 2: first few weeks here is they just love the energy
Speaker 2: that I bring in each day. And that's usually because
Speaker 2: I've done my exercise, I've done what I need to do.
Speaker 2: I come in, I'm ready to go, and you know, energy.
Speaker 2: I think it is a bit of an energy game.
Speaker 2: And if you sort of come with high energy, then
Speaker 2: that will help lift other people even if they walked
Speaker 2: in and had a bad morning, how to fight with
Speaker 2: their partner and the crash their car, which I did
Speaker 2: this week. You know, you're like, I didn't even want
Speaker 2: to talk about that, so I won't talk about that.
Speaker 3: But so, yeah, it's a long question.
Speaker 2: It's a long answer, and there's not a simple answer,
Speaker 2: but it is to me probably the primary focus. So
Speaker 2: for me to get a high performance team and for
Speaker 2: us to actually do well and to have a profitable
Speaker 2: business and successful business, my focus is on the people
Speaker 2: because I feel like if I can get the people
Speaker 2: and the culture right, and I can get them not
Speaker 2: just surviving, but thriving and wanting to come to work
Speaker 2: and wanting to do that extra and you know what,
Speaker 2: on Saturday and you finish your opens and your auctions
Speaker 2: at midday and you can go out with all your
Speaker 2: friends who don't work Saturdays, or I can go back
Speaker 2: to the office and I can actually make another few
Speaker 2: calls and I.
Speaker 3: Can actually do that extra bit. How do I get
Speaker 3: them to do that?
Speaker 2: Because that's going to get a little closer to where
Speaker 2: they want to go, And they've told me where they
Speaker 2: want to go, and I will hold, like I guess,
Speaker 2: hold them to account to say, well, you told me
Speaker 2: you want to get there, but you're not doing the
Speaker 2: activities that are going to get you there, So let's
Speaker 2: reevaluate what that looks like.
Speaker 3: So what do we need to do? The other part
Speaker 3: is just imparting.
Speaker 2: You know. What I know keeps me mentally sharp and
Speaker 2: energetic is the exercise piece. So we've all signed up
Speaker 2: for the Coast Track twenty twenty five. It's thirty k's.
Speaker 2: It's not like it's easy. It's cross country. I took
Speaker 2: a training session. You'd be proud of me. I took
Speaker 2: a training session. I'm like, I don't need to pay
Speaker 2: a personal trainer.
Speaker 3: Two fifty an hour. I've got this. I know how
Speaker 3: to do it.
Speaker 2: I take a training session with them, so I'm trying
Speaker 2: to prepare them for that.
Speaker 3: But it also is team building.
Speaker 2: We're walking, we're doing stairs, we're doing all the stuff
Speaker 2: that we used to do. It hasn't changed that much
Speaker 2: to get people fit for a long you know, an enduranceer,
Speaker 2: then get them.
Speaker 3: And you know this better than anyone.
Speaker 2: When you walk and you talk to someone and you're
Speaker 2: looking forward, you tell them a lot more about yourself
Speaker 2: than when you're looking at them across the table. And
Speaker 2: so we're team building and we're bonding, and that will
Speaker 2: help them because when we're going through this thirty ks.
Speaker 2: There'll be some laggers that will have to drag and
Speaker 2: help and team and support. And what was surprising, well not,
Speaker 2: what was really nice to see is that when I
Speaker 2: put it out there to say, who.
Speaker 3: Wants to do this?
Speaker 2: You know, I reckon. I've got eighty five percent of
Speaker 2: the team that have signed up to do it. That
Speaker 2: to me says a lot. They want to be part
Speaker 2: of it, they want to get involved. I can tell
Speaker 2: you in my previous environments, I wouldn't have been I
Speaker 2: wouldn't have got one I could, I couldn't get that connection.
Speaker 2: And again, so that for me is if you've got
Speaker 2: a great number one recruitment, making sure there is a
Speaker 2: no dickhead policy like preserve it if you've got a
Speaker 2: great culture.
Speaker 3: And in real estate, this is a really tricky one. Pray.
Speaker 2: As you articulated before, in real estate, there is some
Speaker 2: really high performing agents out there that make bucket loads
Speaker 2: of money.
Speaker 3: As characters.
Speaker 2: You wouldn't be their friend, right, They win at all cost,
Speaker 2: leave a path of destruction.
Speaker 3: They are often narcissistic in.
Speaker 2: Their personality traits, but hey, they're put up on a
Speaker 2: pedestal because they actually make thirty percent of the income
Speaker 2: for the company and they've got the boards up everywhere, so.
Speaker 3: They're helping the brand. And a lot of a lot
Speaker 3: of the past is that.
Speaker 2: The business owners and the leaders will turn a blind
Speaker 2: eye to that behavior because hey, they make the money.
Speaker 2: But from a culture point of view, it's toxic because
Speaker 2: everyone else is in their shadow, they're in their wake,
Speaker 2: they're in the path of destruction. They don't get a chance,
Speaker 2: they never get to step up because they've got to
Speaker 2: send the you know, the rock star agent that that
Speaker 2: type of thing, and that can be quite a challenging
Speaker 2: environment for young people wanting to come in and have
Speaker 2: a path. So it's a balance between nurturing, you know,
Speaker 2: nurturing people to allow them to thrive. And I'm a
Speaker 2: big believer like in this industry, it's cutthroat, it's competitive.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of really good operators out of there.
Speaker 2: Out there, there's a lot of great brands. You actually
Speaker 2: have to be at the top of the game to survive.
Speaker 2: You can't just kind of be average. So we want
Speaker 2: to employ people, I guess first and foremost that have
Speaker 2: the hunger and if they got the hunger and the
Speaker 2: attitude and they're not a dickhead, and they contribute to
Speaker 2: the culture great and will nurture them and help them
Speaker 2: and then retain them, right, because that's part of it.
Speaker 3: You've got to retain people. And I always think.
Speaker 2: If someone walks out the door, it's probably because I
Speaker 2: got that role, because you know, if you're doing the
Speaker 2: right thing and they want to be there, they probably
Speaker 2: shouldn't be looking for another job. But if they're walking
Speaker 2: out the door, you know, you'll always kind of there'll
Speaker 2: be other reasons.
Speaker 3: But most of people leave people rather than jobs.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I love that people leave people rather than jobs.
Speaker 1: Listen to that, everyone, People leave people rather than jobs.
Speaker 1: I love that. I mean that whole. Firstly, thank you
Speaker 1: for the title of the show. The title of today's
Speaker 1: episode everyone, as you'll know by now because you will
Speaker 1: have read it, is no dickhead policy, Sally O'Donnell. You
Speaker 1: can thank for that. I love that. Have you read
Speaker 1: a book you probably you definitely would have hurt well
Speaker 1: maybe it. And to my listeners who've probably heard me
Speaker 1: talk about this ten times in eighteen hundred episodes, that's
Speaker 1: only once every one hundred and eighty episodes, So give
Speaker 1: me a Break the Five Love Languages. Have you heard
Speaker 1: of that book? I love that book. I love that
Speaker 1: book because it really it just talks about how different
Speaker 1: people respond to And it's not like everyone thinks or
Speaker 1: not everyone, but people think when you first hear it, Oh,
Speaker 1: it's about romance and intimacy, and well it can be,
Speaker 1: but it's really about how other people feel seen and
Speaker 1: valued and loved and appreciated and heard and important. And
Speaker 1: when you realize that your love language is not the
Speaker 1: persons that you're talking to, it's a completely different approach
Speaker 1: that you have. You know, it's like my mum and
Speaker 1: dad have two different love languages. I have a different
Speaker 1: love language to both of them. You know, so understanding,
Speaker 1: if you understand what is someone else's love language, you
Speaker 1: increase your chances of building rapport and connection and trust
Speaker 1: and respect exponentially.
Speaker 2: Oh, I'm so glad you brought that up, because I
Speaker 2: probably wouldn't have thought of it. Yes, I know that
Speaker 2: book and some of my girlfriends swear by it. But interestingly,
Speaker 2: before I got here, you know the CEO that I'm replacing,
Speaker 2: who you know, he's been wonderful for the business, Like
Speaker 2: you know again, he's more working towards the end of
Speaker 2: his working life, so he's not leaving because of people.
Speaker 2: They actually do for every new staff member, they actually
Speaker 2: send them like a psychometric kind of test, like a questionnaire.
Speaker 2: And it's not like there's obviously you know them all
Speaker 2: with your study. There's a million out there around the
Speaker 2: different personality types and those things, but this is it's
Speaker 2: one that's actually I think it came out of pick
Speaker 2: Paul Rue's business Performance by Design and so he's i guess,
Speaker 2: adapted some of his coaching tools to the corporate world
Speaker 2: and he's done some work with Abercrombie's in the past,
Speaker 2: and they do this you know sort of test, and
Speaker 2: then out of that there's four personality types, you know,
Speaker 2: their colors like blue, red, yellow, and green, and it's
Speaker 2: probably not hard to work out the red personality types
Speaker 2: versus the yellow, the blue, the analytical that type of thing,
Speaker 2: and then they associate an animal to it. So there's
Speaker 2: a blue owl, there's a red eagle, a yellow peacock,
Speaker 2: and a green dove. So interestingly, what that does is
Speaker 2: everyone I've got it on my wall here, everyone in
Speaker 2: the team has been allocated their strengths because let's you know, they're.
Speaker 3: High red, low yellow or whatever it be.
Speaker 2: And then you've kind of then got the tools to say, well,
Speaker 2: I know that, like my marketing manager, for example, is
Speaker 2: high red, So the way I communicate with her is
Speaker 2: going to be different to.
Speaker 3: You know, one of the.
Speaker 2: Eas who's the most delightful, gentle, beautiful soul. But the
Speaker 2: way I communicate with her is very different to how
Speaker 2: I am very direct with the marketing because that's how
Speaker 2: she likes to be communicated with. So you know, like
Speaker 2: there is again there's you can you can actually if
Speaker 2: you're in these roles, it's our responsibility to actually not
Speaker 2: just be you know, one size fits all and the
Speaker 2: old style of leadership. I mean you know that whole
Speaker 2: sort of command control hierarchy.
Speaker 3: I mean you could probably.
Speaker 1: So it's so interesting. So what you're talking about, right,
Speaker 1: all the different personality profile is great, but in they're
Speaker 1: all based in obviously research, which is awesome. So there's
Speaker 1: two things that in psychology. One is called metacognition. Have
Speaker 1: you heard that term?
Speaker 3: Yep?
Speaker 1: Yep. So metacognition is just thinking about thinking, thinking about
Speaker 1: how people think and why they think the way they think,
Speaker 1: and why you think the way that you do. And
Speaker 1: the next one up from that, which is kind of
Speaker 1: a bit more specific, is called theory of mind, which
Speaker 1: is understanding how other people think, right, and it kind
Speaker 1: of spills into how other people feel, and so that
Speaker 1: what you're just talking about now without using the term,
Speaker 1: but is essentially theory of mine, which is trying to
Speaker 1: understand how someone else thinks and feels and what their
Speaker 1: reality is and what their version. Like you and me
Speaker 1: are in the same conversation, but we're not in the
Speaker 1: same experience because I'm not you and you're not me,
Speaker 1: and you don't have my mind, that I don't have
Speaker 1: your mind or emotions. But nonetheless we can go. My
Speaker 1: experience is very real, Your experience is very real, but
Speaker 1: they're different, right, And so my challenge as a you know,
Speaker 1: as a host, as a communicator, as a teacher, all
Speaker 1: the shit that I do, it's not to agree with everyone,
Speaker 1: but it's as much as I can to at least
Speaker 1: have insight into And because I know you quite well
Speaker 1: compared to mo Get most guests, like I can make
Speaker 1: a few assumptions, right, but they're pretty educated assumptions, you know,
Speaker 1: and that, yeah, it's really very smart what you've done
Speaker 1: because you're just basically learning how your people work, and
Speaker 1: you're operating from the paradigm or in paradigm, that is,
Speaker 1: we don't all think like Sally. We're not like Sally.
Speaker 1: Not better or worse, but we're not fucking Sally. And
Speaker 1: if I think everyone thinks and is and feels and
Speaker 1: responds and is motivated by what Sally is, where fucked.
Speaker 2: And I've learned that Greig the hard way, right, like
Speaker 2: in the sense of you know, you learn this through
Speaker 2: experience and where you think you can just everyone thinks
Speaker 2: like me. You know you do know me quite well.
Speaker 2: My personality type. You know it can be quite direct,
Speaker 2: and you know I'm probably at times a bit punchy
Speaker 2: and a bit combative, and you know that hasn't been
Speaker 2: knocked out of me. But I've learned to have more
Speaker 2: awareness of the people around me and the impact I
Speaker 2: would have on them if I take that style to
Speaker 2: everybody that I come across, So I am more conscious
Speaker 2: of actually understanding where they come from. You know, what
Speaker 2: sort of style probably reflects and you know them for
Speaker 2: me ultimately for me to influence, right, because that's I
Speaker 2: guess for me as a leader, I am trying to
Speaker 2: influence positive change and growth and development and all those
Speaker 2: things you talk about. Because the end the day, I
Speaker 2: am responsible for the business, and if we're not making money,
Speaker 2: none of us will have a job. So you've got
Speaker 2: to balance it, you know, between the I guess, being
Speaker 2: the responsible person for making sure we keep the lights
Speaker 2: on versus creating environment that people really want to come
Speaker 2: and have a great experience at work.
Speaker 3: I'm such a you know, I've got a daughter.
Speaker 2: I wanted to be in an environment where people see
Speaker 2: her potential and give her a path, give her a path.
Speaker 3: Like that's all sometimes what's interesting, you know.
Speaker 2: Unfortunately, my experience in real estate has been very much
Speaker 2: command control type leadership. And I'm not telling you anything
Speaker 2: that's not obvious. It's a very male dominant industry. There's
Speaker 2: been a lot of success of people that have come
Speaker 2: up through the old style of leadership, which is that
Speaker 2: you know, real hierarchical. Unless you're you know this and
Speaker 2: you've written this and you know your own equity, then
Speaker 2: you're really not of any value to us. And there
Speaker 2: is a real command control And you know, I remember
Speaker 2: getting when I was I guess, you know, I guess
Speaker 2: early in the industry, and I was a salesperson and
Speaker 2: I was still you know, finding my way, and I
Speaker 2: was in a very high profile, high performance environment, you know,
Speaker 2: in there, and I had a.
Speaker 3: Young daughter who was at primary school.
Speaker 2: And they always had the sales meeting at like eight
Speaker 2: o'clock on a Tuesday, and it.
Speaker 3: Was designed around, you know, men who.
Speaker 2: Had stay at home wives, who had young families, but
Speaker 2: they could leave the house at seven and get home
Speaker 2: at seven and not think once about anything else, whereas
Speaker 2: the women in real estate at the time, and again,
Speaker 2: you know, there weren't that many. You know, we often
Speaker 2: still had working husbands, and we're like, if we had
Speaker 2: to stay I want to stay at home wife. If
Speaker 2: I had to stay at home wife, I could double
Speaker 2: my income because I can leave at seven and get
Speaker 2: home at seven not have to think about anything else
Speaker 2: as well. But we were doing the juggle, and they
Speaker 2: were like, oh, you have to if you're not committed,
Speaker 2: and you're not serious. If you're not at the sales
Speaker 2: meeting before eight o'clock, you're not serious. And you know,
Speaker 2: I literally remember pushing my kid out the door. It out,
Speaker 2: you got it. She wanted to tell me something, you know,
Speaker 2: she's going to school. I'm dropping off. She want to
Speaker 2: tell me something. I'm like, no, no, no, you gotta go,
Speaker 2: you got to go. I'm stressing about being late. And
Speaker 2: I get to the meeting. I'm three minutes late, and
Speaker 2: they slammed the door in my face and said, you're
Speaker 2: not serious, you know, And I just went wow, And
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 3: I'll never forget that.
Speaker 2: And I thought, I'm never going to create an environment
Speaker 2: where I've actually got a playing field that's not equal
Speaker 2: for people to have a fair Go, let's make the
Speaker 2: suse let's make the sales meeting at nine point thirty.
Speaker 3: You know what.
Speaker 2: Let the dads drop the kids off, let the mums
Speaker 2: drop the kids off, whatever. But we don't have to
Speaker 2: have it just because we've always done it that way.
Speaker 2: I mean, you know again, why do we We've always
Speaker 2: done that. Why would we change it? Well, because it
Speaker 2: doesn't actually suit anymore.
Speaker 1: Wow, that's that's fucking hrrh like. Of course I believe you,
Speaker 1: But I think, how fucking dumb of those people, Like,
Speaker 1: how do you do that? How do you get a
Speaker 1: bunch of people And in the bunch of people, not
Speaker 1: one of them goes, hey, listen, I don't know that
Speaker 1: that's a great idea, and also that's kind of shit
Speaker 1: to treat her that way, Like how does nobody stand
Speaker 1: up and go, wait, what are you doing? Like? How
Speaker 1: does no one? How is that okay to treat anyone?
Speaker 1: You know, but to treat a woman anyone though, fucking
Speaker 1: anyone like it?
Speaker 3: Just you know it is? It was.
Speaker 2: It was eye opening, and sure enough I didn't work
Speaker 2: there for much longer because, as I said before, I
Speaker 2: left because of that. Like I left not because of that,
Speaker 2: but I left because of that the way if I
Speaker 2: was going to be treated like that, it's not the
Speaker 2: right environment for me.
Speaker 3: I can't thrive in that environment.
Speaker 1: How many? How many? Not that it matters, but out
Speaker 1: of interest. So there's twenty people in your team at
Speaker 1: the moment, give or take. What's the split? Is it
Speaker 1: mainly guys? Mainly girl Now I'm.
Speaker 2: Actually it's one of my focuses. But the splits, the
Speaker 2: splits would be fifty to fifty, but it's unfortunately it's
Speaker 2: for me. It's something to focus on. The majority of
Speaker 2: the girls or the females within the business are not
Speaker 2: quite They're not in sales, so they're in property management.
Speaker 2: They're in marketing, they're in admin. You know, they're in
Speaker 2: support roles. There's a female office manager. My board is
Speaker 2: all male. Now, the good news is that they are
Speaker 2: obviously thought well, you know, I got here on merit.
Speaker 2: But at the same time, having a female CEO in
Speaker 2: the real estate industry is rare. There's only a handful
Speaker 2: of us, and the ones that we have, I'm friends
Speaker 2: with them all and again I've you know, a lot
Speaker 2: of respect for them, and you know, some of them
Speaker 2: are in very traditional you know, real estate franchisers, where
Speaker 2: I'm like, I look at that and go, oh, I know,
Speaker 2: if I can move the needle there. I feel like
Speaker 2: I've got a group and a board that are very
Speaker 2: progressive and open and you know they are embracing it.
Speaker 2: But yes, we're we need to balance out some more
Speaker 2: females selling in the business.
Speaker 1: Wow. All right. My last question, why the fuck is
Speaker 1: real estates so expensive in Melbourne? Sally O'Connell, What is
Speaker 1: that about?
Speaker 2: According we're a value now, Craig, because all the other
Speaker 2: states have been going up and Melbourne's been on a
Speaker 2: decline now for really three years, so we're probably at
Speaker 2: the bottom.
Speaker 1: We are not, are you? Telling me it's cheaper to
Speaker 1: buy a house in Sydney.
Speaker 3: No no, no, no, no, no, no no no.
Speaker 1: We're deer than w A with deer than South Australia.
Speaker 2: So what what has actually happened? And there's a bit
Speaker 2: of nuance to it?
Speaker 1: But what's actually I hate it when I get corrected.
Speaker 4: I know you Too's actually the last two years is
Speaker 4: that Perth like wa has gone up, like their days
Speaker 4: on market if average days on market at twenty eight,
Speaker 4: they're at ten, Like it's ridiculous.
Speaker 2: The demands there and the supply is way out of whack,
Speaker 2: so their prices have gone up like twenty six percent
Speaker 2: in the last twelve months.
Speaker 3: Phenomenal. That's slow like the peak. The rate of the
Speaker 3: growth has slowed.
Speaker 2: Brisbane Queensland again gone up you know, I think sort
Speaker 2: of eighteen percent on average over the over twelve month period.
Speaker 2: Sydney's been on a decline that started to sort of
Speaker 2: slow the decline side of slow, and Melbourne's been on
Speaker 2: quite a rapid decline. So we're still off our peak,
Speaker 2: which would have been pre post COVID where the market
Speaker 2: just went nuts. We're probably still five to fifteen percent,
Speaker 2: depending on which market. You're in off that peak, and
Speaker 2: if anything, Melbourne has actually been the lagging state.
Speaker 3: So I guess what I'm saying is that.
Speaker 2: Investors are now starting to look at Melbourne going Actually
Speaker 2: Melbourne doesn't look as expensive it used to and the
Speaker 2: medium dwelling price, so I say, dwelling in Melbourne is
Speaker 2: actually now below Sydney, Brisbane, Canberra, and I think Adelaide
Speaker 2: might have even pipped us.
Speaker 3: Now that's dwelling.
Speaker 2: When you break it down to houses of detached houses
Speaker 2: versus apartments, then we're second behind Sydney. That tells you
Speaker 2: that we've got a lot of apartments compared to the
Speaker 2: other capital cities, so that you know what I mean
Speaker 2: by that, Like so Yt anyway, so it's probably good value.
Speaker 2: That said our state government, we won't get into politics,
Speaker 2: but they haven't made it very attractive or appealing for.
Speaker 3: You to buy investment property in Victoria.
Speaker 2: So a lot of that money is going into state
Speaker 2: because why would you hear at the moment there's not
Speaker 2: a lot of incentive for you.
Speaker 1: And I say, is it patronizing that I say, I'm
Speaker 1: so proud of you, You're so fucking smart.
Speaker 3: Oh, I'm proud of you, I.
Speaker 1: Like, honestly, that seventeen year old bloody triathlete. I listen
Speaker 1: to you now and I'm like, jeepers, who's this woman?
Speaker 1: Who's this?
Speaker 2: No, I'm just going to say though I've followed you,
Speaker 2: and I'll say it again. You don't probably realize it,
Speaker 2: but you had a real impact on my early years
Speaker 2: and I'll.
Speaker 3: Never forget that.
Speaker 2: And I've followed you, and I think what you've been
Speaker 2: able to create with your books and your podcasts and
Speaker 2: your corporate speaking and which is really you're playing to
Speaker 2: your strengths ultimately, because I mean, at the end of
Speaker 2: the day, you're always a great entertainer for all of us.
Speaker 1: I just wanted a job that didn't where I could
Speaker 1: just basically be a fuckward in front of people and
Speaker 1: somehow get paid.
Speaker 4: It's unbelievable that you've been able to curate that hundred.
Speaker 1: It's that that's exactly right, And you know, it's like
Speaker 1: I felt like I haven't actually had a job for
Speaker 1: thirty years. Hey, I don't know if you want anyone
Speaker 1: to follow you anywhere, but do you want to be
Speaker 1: do you have any social media or anything or a
Speaker 1: peaceeople want to connect with you.
Speaker 2: That you know abbat Crombie's, so we're you know, we're
Speaker 2: passionate about looking after people.
Speaker 3: So yeah, you can find me there.
Speaker 2: I've got an Instagram which is not huge, in LinkedIn,
Speaker 2: but LinkedIn is probably good for me.
Speaker 3: All right, thank you.
Speaker 1: How many podcasts have you done? Is this number one?
Speaker 1: Is this your debut?
Speaker 2: I've done a couple within the industry, so very real estate. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but no, this has been this has been my most
Speaker 2: enjoyable by far.
Speaker 3: And yeah, it's just nice to be able to connect
Speaker 3: with you and have a have a chat. Really, so
Speaker 3: thank you.
Speaker 1: Well we'll say goodbye affair, but Sally O'Connell, good job
Speaker 1: you you did so good. I think we're going to
Speaker 1: get you back and we'll pay you exactly the same fee.
Speaker 1: So you're welcome. You're welcome.
Speaker 3: Thanks, Thanks Greg,