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Speaker 1: And we had a couple of growers tomato growers on earlier,

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Speaker 1: Tony Saker from the Salvatore Farms and pulled Cafcacus from

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Speaker 1: Cafcacus Produce. And the overwhelming sentiment from both of these

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Speaker 1: growers is that testing needs to be done quickly and efficiently.

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Speaker 1: They need to get results as quickly as possible and

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Speaker 1: the industry can get on its feet as quickly as possible. PERSA.

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Speaker 1: We're listening, I presume anyway, because Nick Sekam is Chief

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Speaker 1: Plant Health Officer and has called in Nick, good morning,

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Speaker 1: thanks for coming.

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Speaker 2: On mon, Matthew problems at all?

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Speaker 1: So why is testing taking as long as it's taking?

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Speaker 2: So I'd just like to mention two things on that

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Speaker 2: how could please. One is we're doing this testing so

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Speaker 2: that we can define where the disease is and in

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Speaker 2: doing that rule out people and make sure that we

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Speaker 2: can show conclusively they don't have the disease. We have

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Speaker 2: to do that in a methodical and very comprehensive way.

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Speaker 2: We can't cut corners when it comes to testing. So

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Speaker 2: it is taking longer than we would hope because this

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Speaker 2: is an exotic disease. And when it came to us.

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Speaker 2: At the start of August, we had two accredit laboratories

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Speaker 2: in Australia who are able to test with the confidence

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Speaker 2: that we need, and so we have overwhelmed those two

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Speaker 2: laboratories with the testing because we've now done over three

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Speaker 2: thousand samples, because we want to be able to show

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Speaker 2: confidence that we have this disease contained. So I completely

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Speaker 2: hear what growers are saying. It has taken longer than

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Speaker 2: we would hope, but we don't want to take the

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Speaker 2: alternative group where we do things too quickly or in

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Speaker 2: a way that isn't accepted or with the confidence that

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Speaker 2: we need.

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Speaker 1: So why would person then be out doing a second

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Speaker 1: round of testing when growers haven't been given the results

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Speaker 1: of the first round of testing. You must know what

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Speaker 1: they are. I mean, if you're back there a second time,

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Speaker 1: either either they've been lost or mucked up, or why

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Speaker 1: not just give them what the answers are.

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Speaker 2: Our team has set up contact officers so we can

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Speaker 2: talk on the phone with growers and we've been doing

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Speaker 2: that and saying this is what we know about your

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Speaker 2: test results so far, and some of those test results

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Speaker 2: are at a point where we have to retest. We

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Speaker 2: aren't able to say that they're all returned a conclusive result.

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Speaker 2: So we've been on the phone and also send emails

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Speaker 2: to everyone with the results that we've got to hand,

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Speaker 2: but we can't finalize some of these properties into more

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Speaker 2: sampling has been done. That's the way the testing works.

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Speaker 2: The testing is really comprehensive. Each sample has two different

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Speaker 2: PCR tests, though DNA tests are and a test done

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Speaker 2: side by side. But sometimes it leads to a result

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Speaker 2: where you have to go do some more testing. And

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Speaker 2: similar to my point before, we can't just sort of say, oh,

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Speaker 2: that's good enough. We will say that's close enough. We

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Speaker 2: have to rule these out and with confidence so we

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Speaker 2: can move on and say that these properties are climbing.

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Speaker 1: So an inconclusive test is treated as a positive test effect,

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Speaker 1: You've got to do it again.

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Speaker 2: No, it's not treated as a positive Matthew. And I've

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Speaker 2: got to make the point that these properties that are

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Speaker 2: in this stage where we have to do retesting have

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Speaker 2: not had quarantine orders put on them. They're able to

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Speaker 2: keep on doing business. They're not treated as positive, but

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Speaker 2: we can't rule them out until the testing is completed.

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Speaker 2: And as I said, we can't cut corners with it.

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Speaker 2: We have to maintain our own confidence but also maintain

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Speaker 2: confidence of others that are watching, to show that we

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Speaker 2: have this contained and well defined.

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Speaker 1: They may not be quarantine businesses, but they may as

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Speaker 1: well be, because if you read in the paper today

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Speaker 1: is I'm sure you have there's a grower on the

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Speaker 1: Adelaide planes one of many, of course, but I'll just

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Speaker 1: find the name of the business, Gaula River Tomatoes Harry Kapiris,

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Speaker 1: who says New South Wales have told us they can't

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Speaker 1: take our produce and as a result we can't keep going.

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Speaker 1: So he's not in quarantine. He's okay, it hasn't been

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Speaker 1: detected on his property, but no one wants to buy

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Speaker 1: his stuff, so he's throwing it out. I mean, this

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Speaker 1: is the tragedy of it. Livelihoods have been affected for

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Speaker 1: no good reason.

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Speaker 2: So look, totally understand what you're saying, and we hear

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Speaker 2: that this is an impactful disease. There's no removing ourselves

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Speaker 2: from that. But because it's an impactful disease, we would

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Speaker 2: rather contain and eradicated if we can. Because at the

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Speaker 2: moment we only have three properties that are affected. We

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Speaker 2: think it's probably less than ten percent of the South

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Speaker 2: Australian industry, let alone national industry that's currently affected. So

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Speaker 2: we have an obligation to make sure that if we

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Speaker 2: can prevent this disease from getting to those others, we

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Speaker 2: should take that. The alternative is to say, well, look,

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Speaker 2: because these other businesses are not yet affected, we should

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Speaker 2: allow the disease to spread. I don't think we can

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Speaker 2: take that move, and nationally we're not making that that suggestion.

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Speaker 1: Why don't we do what is done in over seas

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Speaker 1: countries as I understand it, as growers today explained that

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Speaker 1: they take out the affected row and a row either

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Speaker 1: side and testing can then continue. But the industry isn't

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Speaker 1: shut down. People aren't thrown out of work. A sensible

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Speaker 1: precaution to rip out three rows the middle one and

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Speaker 1: one either side of it where the disease is found,

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Speaker 1: and perhaps quarantine that particular glasshouse, but the rest should

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Speaker 1: be okay.

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Speaker 2: I'll look in simple terms, and it's never simple, but

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Speaker 2: overseas they don't have the opportunity that we have. In

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Speaker 2: simple terms, they have the disease. It's established, it's an

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Speaker 2: endemic disease overseas, and so they're able to take decisions

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Speaker 2: a bit like you might do with other diseases that

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Speaker 2: are already here, where you say, well, look, I'll just

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Speaker 2: pull out that affected plant, or I'll just treat that row.

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Speaker 2: That's because they have the disease. It's present, it's there

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Speaker 2: all the time. We don't have that here, and that's

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Speaker 2: why we're taking a different approach.

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Speaker 1: All right. So at the meantime, hundreds of workers going

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Speaker 1: off looking for other work this side of Chris us

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Speaker 1: the season for tomatoes coming in at the moment, and

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Speaker 1: people can't do anything with their crop. You won't let

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Speaker 1: it be used for paste or anything else, will you.

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Speaker 1: You can't. You can't afford that, I presume.

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Speaker 2: So I think we have to be careful about saying

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Speaker 2: that they can't do anything with the crops. Certainly on

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Speaker 2: infected a premises that's the case. But as I said,

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Speaker 2: there's only three of those. What we're doing through this

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Speaker 2: comprehensive testing regime is hoping to open up markets for

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Speaker 2: the rest of essay. As I said, the vast majority

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Speaker 2: of growers who haven't got this disease. And so by

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Speaker 2: doing this testing and getting this confidence, we can then

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Speaker 2: talk with states like Western Australia and Queensland, and the

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Speaker 2: intent is to open up the market so they can

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Speaker 2: sell their produce.

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Speaker 1: All right, now, one of the other questions this morning,

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Speaker 1: and again it's in the paper today with Harry Kapiras saying, okay,

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Speaker 1: fair enough, you want to go down this quarantine containment path.

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Speaker 1: And this isn't a question for you so much. It

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Speaker 1: is one that goes to the minister. But it is

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Speaker 1: a question very much on growers much. Guys. You want

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Speaker 1: to shut us down, pay us compensation and that's not unfair.

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Speaker 2: No, it's a reasonable as you say, It's a reasonable

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Speaker 2: thing for Harry to raise. I've got to say again,

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Speaker 2: this is a disease that's being managed under national deed

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Speaker 2: arrangements and things like compensation are considered under those deeds.

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Speaker 1: But at the moment we haven't seen anything of that sort.

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Speaker 1: No indeed, all right, Nick, really appreciate you coming on

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Speaker 1: at least and providing some answers there. I don't know

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Speaker 1: that'll growers any satisfaction, any idea how long this will take. Finally,

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Speaker 1: I mean December fifteen was moodered by someone I spoke

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Speaker 1: to yesterday from SSA Tomatoes, from the operations manager there

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Speaker 1: any idea. How long can you give growers some degree

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Speaker 1: of certainty.

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Speaker 2: We think we're coming to the final stages of the

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Speaker 2: incident definition stage, where we're looking at properties to make

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Speaker 2: sure they don't have the disease. I would expect that

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Speaker 2: to be coming to an end within the next two

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Speaker 2: or three weeks. But then we have to continue to

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Speaker 2: manage the disease where it's being found, and that will

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Speaker 2: take that will take longer.

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Speaker 1: Okay, see terms like incident definition stage, they they just

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Speaker 1: sit jarringly with me because it says, this is a

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Speaker 1: public servant's dream come true. We can title everything now

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Speaker 1: and administer it and get the red tape out and running,

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Speaker 1: and you know, people, good luck getting through this. I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's that's what it's screen soft, Nick. I have to

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Speaker 1: tell you, you know, when you when you label things

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Speaker 1: to that degree, and I suppose you'll say you have

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Speaker 1: to and this is how we know where we're at.

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Speaker 1: But gee, it doesn't. It doesn't give growers. It doesn't

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Speaker 1: give me a good sense of this is heading in

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Speaker 1: the right direction. This seems to be, as I've said earlier,

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Speaker 1: a bit of a COVID lockdown and certainly an overreach.

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Speaker 2: Well, I take your point, and we do try to

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Speaker 2: provide common language where we can, and I understand what

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Speaker 2: you're saying. It's certainly not something that as government workers

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Speaker 2: look that we enjoy doing, and we certainly it's not

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Speaker 2: something that that is an enjoyable experience for us either.

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Speaker 2: But we've tried to put this sort of language into

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Speaker 2: some sort of context that people understand that that term

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Speaker 2: is something that has been used a number of times

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Speaker 2: for other things. So if it doesn't quite ring true,

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Speaker 2: then we're more than happy to.

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Speaker 1: Change them, like COVID. Other things like COVID Oh no.

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Speaker 2: I no other I'm talking about plant patterns diseases that

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Speaker 2: we've had to respond to.

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Speaker 1: Nick, appreciate you coming on. Thanks Matthew Nick Sekham, who

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Speaker 1: is Chief Plant Health Officer at PERSA