1 00:00:05,600 --> 00:00:08,520 Speaker 1: From the Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey. 2 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:16,000 Speaker 1: It's Friday, April ten, twenty twenty six. Jim Chalmers is 3 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:18,720 Speaker 1: set to bank a mammoth eight point one billion dollar 4 00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:22,160 Speaker 1: windfall in company tax revenues, and he might have Donald 5 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 1: Trump to thank. Supply chain shocks caused by the Iran 6 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:28,600 Speaker 1: War have helped send iron, ore, coal, and other commodity 7 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:33,440 Speaker 1: prices up past Treasuries forecasts. That story is live now 8 00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:41,400 Speaker 1: at The Australian dot com dot a U. Absurd, ridiculous, insane, offensive, fantastical. 9 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:44,680 Speaker 1: That's how our foreign editor Greg Sheridan sums up Donald 10 00:00:44,680 --> 00:00:49,280 Speaker 1: Trump's rhetoric throughout the Iran War. As for the war itself, well, 11 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:53,560 Speaker 1: Greg reckons Trump's made massive miscalculations and may have left 12 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:58,080 Speaker 1: the despised Iranian regime stronger than ever, and Trump himself 13 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:01,920 Speaker 1: is starting to look like a part. Greg's here in 14 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:16,399 Speaker 1: just a moment. Greg Sheridan is The Australian's foreign editor, 15 00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 1: and that means part of his job is to come 16 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:20,360 Speaker 1: on the front and have me ask him to answer 17 00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:23,839 Speaker 1: impossible questions. At Christmas time, I asked Greg if Jesus 18 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:28,319 Speaker 1: was real and this one might be a slightly easier question, Greg, 19 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:33,479 Speaker 1: Where on the continuum of Donald Trump's decision making are 20 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:35,920 Speaker 1: we going to put the Iran war now that we've 21 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 1: got what looks like a cease fire? It's Thursday afternoon. 22 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:42,200 Speaker 1: Is this if we look back at what started on 23 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:47,039 Speaker 1: February twenty eight, a complete disaster or an absolute triumph 24 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 1: or where in the middle does it fall? 25 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:53,920 Speaker 2: Well, Claire, it was easy to answer the question about Jesus. 26 00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:56,600 Speaker 2: I know what the truth is there on this matter. 27 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 2: Like everything with Trump, it's a mixed girl. The case 28 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:06,360 Speaker 2: for taking action against Iran was and is very strong. 29 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:09,800 Speaker 2: It is the chief sponsor of terrorism around the world. 30 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:14,720 Speaker 2: It uses its proxies has Bala Hamas, the Hooties, the 31 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:19,600 Speaker 2: Sheer militia in Iraq to murder its enemies and to 32 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:23,320 Speaker 2: wage war against Israel and the United States. It is 33 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:27,520 Speaker 2: pursuing a nuclear program which can only be aimed towards 34 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 2: getting nuclear weapons. And it is responsible for the deaths 35 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:35,840 Speaker 2: of many hundreds of Americans, many hundreds, if not thousands 36 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:39,520 Speaker 2: of Israelis, and has conducted terrorism in Australia. So the 37 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:45,840 Speaker 2: case was strong. However, Trump conducted this business in a 38 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:49,840 Speaker 2: very slap dash way. The military, the US military and 39 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:52,520 Speaker 2: the Israeli military were very impressive in doing what they 40 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:57,679 Speaker 2: always do very effectively. But Trump didn't take elementary precautions. 41 00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:00,840 Speaker 2: He didn't fill up the US fuel reserve, didn't equip 42 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:04,920 Speaker 2: the Gulf States with proper counter drone capabilities, nor did 43 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:09,040 Speaker 2: he quip his own military with proper counter drone capabilities. 44 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 2: So the Americans are firing enormously expensive missile interceptors to 45 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:18,120 Speaker 2: hit Iranian drones. And then the most recent accounts of 46 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:21,640 Speaker 2: the decision making, which show that Vice President JD. Vance 47 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 2: was dead against this operation, show that Trump thought Iran 48 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 2: would not close the Straight of Hor meoves because it 49 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:33,120 Speaker 2: would collapse before then, and thought it would not mount 50 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:40,120 Speaker 2: significant attacks on its neighbors. And these were two fundamental miscalculations. 51 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:43,960 Speaker 2: Trump also hoped that his attacks would lead to regime change. 52 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:45,440 Speaker 3: That hasn't happened either. 53 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 2: So we're at a very delicate moment now where we 54 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 2: don't know what's going to happen exactly next. But if 55 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 2: at the end of all this, Iran keeps its regime intact, 56 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 2: which it has up till now, and controls the Straight 57 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:01,200 Speaker 2: of hor Moves, Iran would actually, in many ways in 58 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 2: a stronger strategic position than before Trump began this war. 59 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 2: If Trump gets the Strait of Hormuz definitively, clearly and 60 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:13,880 Speaker 2: permanently open without Iranian control, then he can at least 61 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:19,920 Speaker 2: say he's degraded Iran's military and nuclear capabilities. And you know, 62 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:23,760 Speaker 2: the cost to oil price disruption and so forth was temporary. 63 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:25,880 Speaker 3: But all the way through, I'd. 64 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 2: Say Trump's rhetoric has bordered on the absurd, the ridiculous, 65 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:35,159 Speaker 2: the insane, the offensive, and just the fantastical. And his 66 00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:39,880 Speaker 2: own rhetoric has done enormous damage to America's position in 67 00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:43,000 Speaker 2: the world, and it's made it impossible for Allied leaders 68 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:47,080 Speaker 2: to support him, because Trump has turned every Western electorate 69 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:52,239 Speaker 2: one hundred percent against him, and that has a strategic cost. 70 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 1: We've used AI to bring to life this truth social 71 00:04:56,360 --> 00:05:00,360 Speaker 1: post by Donald Trump about the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. 72 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:04,520 Speaker 1: It's one of many about the war in Iran. NATO 73 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:06,680 Speaker 1: wasn't there when we needed them, and they won't be 74 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:08,279 Speaker 1: there if we need them again. 75 00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:13,279 Speaker 2: So that's another one of Trump's grave miscalculations. Apart from 76 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:15,719 Speaker 2: the Strait of All moves and Iran's ability to keep 77 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 2: its regime intact. The other big miscalculation is the way 78 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:21,480 Speaker 2: he has mismanaged allies. 79 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:27,279 Speaker 1: We've definitely seen lifting off of one layer of leadership 80 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:29,800 Speaker 1: at the very top of the Iranian regime. The Iatola 81 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:33,839 Speaker 1: was killed very early on. Various other senior leaders from 82 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:37,680 Speaker 1: the IRGC throughout the military are now gone. They've all 83 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:41,680 Speaker 1: been replaced, though where do you think Iranian people are 84 00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:45,279 Speaker 1: now left? Greg As the weeks go on, we'll see 85 00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 1: how hardline I suppose the replacements are. But will do 86 00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:55,680 Speaker 1: you think this hardened the regime's oppression and repression of 87 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:59,440 Speaker 1: its own people, or is it likely that this regime 88 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:03,800 Speaker 1: is now seriously damaged and will ultimately be weakened by 89 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:05,520 Speaker 1: what's happened over the past month or so. 90 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 2: The internal control of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps seems 91 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:15,920 Speaker 2: to be, if anything, even more absolute now than it 92 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:20,480 Speaker 2: was previously. But the Iranian regime is a terrible regime, 93 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 2: richly loathed by its people. Earlier this year, the regime 94 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:29,680 Speaker 2: murdered between thirty and forty thousand of its own citizens. 95 00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 2: Now just reflect on that it killed thirty to forty 96 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:37,400 Speaker 2: thousand of its own citizens for the crime of protesting 97 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:40,680 Speaker 2: in the streets against the nature of the regime. And 98 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:46,480 Speaker 2: it's a barbaric and sadistic, theocratic stalinist regime, very unusual 99 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:49,040 Speaker 2: in the world. So I don't think you can say 100 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 2: this regime needed any pushing to get any worse. 101 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:56,599 Speaker 3: But there's no indication at all that this. 102 00:06:56,640 --> 00:07:01,360 Speaker 2: Regime has become less bad as result of this attack. 103 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:04,719 Speaker 2: And in a sense, the poor old Iranian people don't 104 00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:09,960 Speaker 2: get a vote in Iran. Their theocratic ideology places a 105 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:16,440 Speaker 2: particular you know, premium on martyrdom, and their leaders are 106 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:21,559 Speaker 2: not hypocrites in this respect. So occasionally a dictatorship will 107 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:25,880 Speaker 2: change if you bomb the leader or bomb the leader's tent. 108 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:31,880 Speaker 2: So Trump took out Maduro from Venezuela and that changed 109 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:34,440 Speaker 2: the regime. The regime didn't become democratic, but it became 110 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:38,560 Speaker 2: cooperative with the United States. Ronald Reagan bombed Colonel Gaddaffi's 111 00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:42,040 Speaker 2: tent in Libya, and Gaddaffi became scared that he would 112 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:45,600 Speaker 2: get killed, and the Americans never really had any fundamental 113 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:48,800 Speaker 2: trouble with Libya again after that. The Iranian regime is 114 00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:52,440 Speaker 2: quite different from that. It's leaders, you know, are corrupt 115 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:57,160 Speaker 2: and sadistic and stalinist, but they're not hypocrites about their 116 00:07:57,160 --> 00:08:02,760 Speaker 2: willingness to face death. It's very clear really that these 117 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 2: terrorist groups has Bila and Hamas and so on. Israel 118 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:11,920 Speaker 2: has been killing their leaders for generations, and sometimes that 119 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:16,200 Speaker 2: is a necessary thing to do, but there's no evidence 120 00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:19,600 Speaker 2: that that really produces any fundamental change. I mean, in 121 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:22,600 Speaker 2: World War Two, you probably would have changed Germany if 122 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 2: you'd killed Hitler, but the nature of the Iranian regime 123 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:30,040 Speaker 2: does not seem to be fundamentally changed by taking out 124 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 2: the leadership. 125 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 3: JD. 126 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:36,400 Speaker 1: Vance is an interesting figure in the story of this conflict. 127 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:40,439 Speaker 1: Last year, he in a signal chat that was supposed 128 00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:43,480 Speaker 1: to be private but was accidentally leaked by Pete Hegseth 129 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:46,320 Speaker 1: to a journalist, said that he thought that bombing the 130 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:50,559 Speaker 1: Hoofies was a mistake. He's clearly a skeptic about American 131 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 1: involvement in foreign conflicts. That's one of the values that 132 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:55,920 Speaker 1: he has long less vowsed, and it was something that 133 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 1: Donald Trump was supposedly one of his values. To Greg, 134 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:02,079 Speaker 1: how do you think we should interpret the balance of 135 00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:05,719 Speaker 1: kind influence in the White House? Now? Marco Rubio was 136 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:09,360 Speaker 1: much more strongly in favor publicly of this war than JD. 137 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:12,319 Speaker 1: Vance was, although now it's JD. Vans who is out 138 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:15,800 Speaker 1: there in public making statements about the war. Trump, on 139 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:20,000 Speaker 1: the other hand, has veered between seeming relatively reasonable to 140 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:24,120 Speaker 1: being absolutely crazed in his public pronouncements. What do you 141 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:26,360 Speaker 1: think are all the dynamics going on there? 142 00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:32,840 Speaker 2: I think the primary battle occurs within Trump's mind. There's very, 143 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:36,960 Speaker 2: very detailed reporting of the decision making process leading up 144 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:40,640 Speaker 2: to this war seems to be extremely well sourced, and 145 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:44,960 Speaker 2: you'd have to say it's Vance or friends of Vance 146 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:49,160 Speaker 2: getting on the record his historic opposition to the hole 147 00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:53,959 Speaker 2: Iran war. Rubio was not keen either. Rubio was extremely skeptical. 148 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:57,760 Speaker 2: Virtually everyone was skeptical. The American military was very skeptical, 149 00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:01,800 Speaker 2: The American intelligence agencies were very skeared. There was clearly 150 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:05,440 Speaker 2: no imminent threat. What the reporting shows is that no 151 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:09,400 Speaker 2: one wanted to contradict Trump at the meeting except Van 152 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:11,520 Speaker 2: Spence was the only one who had the carriage to 153 00:10:11,559 --> 00:10:12,640 Speaker 2: contradict him. 154 00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:15,760 Speaker 1: Vice President JA D. Vance will head to Pakistan with 155 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:18,760 Speaker 1: special on voice Steve Witkoff and the President's son in 156 00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:22,680 Speaker 1: LAWD Jared Kushna where he'll lead negotiations with Iran to 157 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 1: end the war. 158 00:10:24,559 --> 00:10:26,319 Speaker 4: I sat on the phone a lot. I answered a 159 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:28,199 Speaker 4: lot of phone calls. I made a lot of phone calls. 160 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:31,280 Speaker 4: And again, I'm happy about where we are. I think 161 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:33,600 Speaker 4: the President has struck a good deal for the American people, 162 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:36,320 Speaker 4: but fundamentally, the Iranians have got to take the next 163 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:38,480 Speaker 4: step where the president has a lot of options to 164 00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:39,280 Speaker 4: go back to the war. 165 00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:43,760 Speaker 2: But the others made their objections known by saying, well, 166 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:48,080 Speaker 2: mister President, there's this complication, and there's that complication now. 167 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:50,920 Speaker 2: Benjamin Netanya, who had put to Trump a case for 168 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 2: taking the action, there's nothing wrong with Netanya who doing that. 169 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:56,720 Speaker 2: You can't criticize a foreign leader for making a case 170 00:10:56,760 --> 00:10:58,920 Speaker 2: to the American president for a cause of action. 171 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:02,240 Speaker 3: It's up to the pre isn't it what he decides Now. 172 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:06,640 Speaker 2: It's very difficult to try to interpret Trump's mind, but 173 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:09,400 Speaker 2: we have to do this now. He is an erratic, 174 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:14,200 Speaker 2: strange individual. He does some good things and some courageous things. 175 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:17,439 Speaker 2: He does some crazy things and some stupid things. I 176 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:22,040 Speaker 2: think myself. History will record the single most influential newspaper 177 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:24,240 Speaker 2: column ever written in the history of the human race 178 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:28,120 Speaker 2: was the Financial Times column which coined the term Taco 179 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:32,360 Speaker 2: Trump always chickens out because Trump's pattern had been that 180 00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:37,960 Speaker 2: he makes bellicos threats and you know, threatens armageddon and 181 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:40,560 Speaker 2: then does a deal at the last minute. And the 182 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:43,839 Speaker 2: idea is that he scares everybody with these bellicos threats 183 00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 2: and then he does a deal. But by identifying this 184 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:51,280 Speaker 2: with this kind of slightly mocking acronym taco, this convinced 185 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:54,319 Speaker 2: Trump that he must demonstrate that he doesn't always check 186 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:57,480 Speaker 2: it out. I mean, it's pathetic clear that international relations 187 00:11:57,520 --> 00:12:00,920 Speaker 2: is reduced to a sort of a psychobabb analysis of 188 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:07,800 Speaker 2: Trump's mind. It seems that Trump himself was indecisive or 189 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:13,120 Speaker 2: undecided about this, and then the opportunity to kill a 190 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:15,760 Speaker 2: lot of Iranian leaders all at once because they were 191 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:19,960 Speaker 2: having a meeting above ground in a particular location and 192 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:23,200 Speaker 2: they didn't know that the Israelis and the Americans would 193 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:27,120 Speaker 2: be able to locate them. So the Israelis presented this 194 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:30,600 Speaker 2: to Trump as an opportunity, and I think it appealed 195 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:35,200 Speaker 2: to the gambler and the lover of drama in Trump, 196 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:37,920 Speaker 2: who thought, well, maybe I can wipe these guys out. 197 00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:41,800 Speaker 2: Like I did Maduro in Venezuela, and I'll quickly get 198 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:44,680 Speaker 2: some military replacement or whatever. 199 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:48,960 Speaker 3: Who will do a deal with us? Well, that gamble failed. 200 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:53,640 Speaker 2: One reason, I'm quite worried and skeptical about where we 201 00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:56,439 Speaker 2: are now. Trump is a great one at announcing tremendous 202 00:12:56,480 --> 00:13:00,400 Speaker 2: historic breakthroughs and then never following them up. Just give 203 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:03,520 Speaker 2: you a couple of examples real fast. In twenty eighteen, 204 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:07,160 Speaker 2: he announced that he had solved the problem of North 205 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:08,480 Speaker 2: Korea's nuclear weapons. 206 00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:11,079 Speaker 3: Kim John mun had promised. 207 00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:14,320 Speaker 2: To denuclearize, get rid of his existing nuclear weapons, and 208 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:17,079 Speaker 2: have no more nuclear development. Well, we know that Kim 209 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:20,480 Speaker 2: John Un has continued to increase the number of nuclear 210 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:24,200 Speaker 2: weapons he has and to build ballistic missiles. In this term, 211 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:28,120 Speaker 2: Trump had a meeting with Vladimir Putin in Alaska, and 212 00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:30,920 Speaker 2: he announced after it that he'd solved the Ukraine War. 213 00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:34,800 Speaker 2: There would shortly be a meeting between Putin and Vladimir 214 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:38,040 Speaker 2: Zelenski of Ukraine, and Trump might join the meeting as well, 215 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:39,920 Speaker 2: and everything was now solved. 216 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 3: Nothing happened. 217 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:46,359 Speaker 2: Russia did not desist one speck from its attacks on Ukraine. 218 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:51,079 Speaker 2: More recently, we had the Gaza ceasepire. Trump announced a wonderful, 219 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:55,680 Speaker 2: fabulous plan for Gaza Humas would demilitarize, there would be 220 00:13:56,040 --> 00:14:01,040 Speaker 2: new Palestinian police force of technocratic government in an national peacekeepers. 221 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:05,360 Speaker 2: Not one thing out of that plan has been implemented. 222 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:08,240 Speaker 3: And I don't want to be cute, I don't want 223 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:10,480 Speaker 3: to be a waste guy. But the riviera of the 224 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:12,960 Speaker 3: Middle East, this could be something that could be so bad, 225 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:14,920 Speaker 3: This could be so magnificent. 226 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:20,440 Speaker 2: And now today, just hours before we speak, Trump has said, 227 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:24,080 Speaker 2: far from having the Hall Moves straight completely open as 228 00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:27,280 Speaker 2: an international waterway as it's supposed to be, He's willing 229 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:30,560 Speaker 2: to go into a joint venture with Iran to charge 230 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:34,160 Speaker 2: tolls for ships to go through the Strait of Houll Moves, 231 00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:37,240 Speaker 2: which means, at least on the face that Trump is 232 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:40,920 Speaker 2: himself proposing to become a brigand and a pirate and 233 00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:45,640 Speaker 2: an international terrorist charging an illegal toll, which apparently he 234 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:48,560 Speaker 2: doesn't mind so long as America gets some of the money. Now, 235 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:51,840 Speaker 2: I think he'll be talked out of this eventually, But 236 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 2: the wild girations of Trump are becoming now I think 237 00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:03,360 Speaker 2: very disturbing. And the natural inhibitor and the automatic stabilizers 238 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:06,200 Speaker 2: of the American system. He stripped them out systematically, one 239 00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:09,400 Speaker 2: by one. He's taken away all the staff in consequence 240 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:12,720 Speaker 2: of the National Security Council. There are very few adults 241 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:17,080 Speaker 2: in his cabinet. Rubio is one, Scott Besson, the Treasury Secretary, 242 00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:21,160 Speaker 2: is another. Maybe Dvance is emerging that way, but he 243 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:24,840 Speaker 2: surrounds himself with ciphers like Pete Hegseth, who has no 244 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:28,520 Speaker 2: business being an American cabinet secretary, and even some of 245 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:33,120 Speaker 2: his most servile servants Pam Bondi and Christian nomen so on. 246 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:39,960 Speaker 2: He sacked those because they're not giving him sufficiently florid results. So, Claire, 247 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:42,000 Speaker 2: this is all very difficult for me to say, because 248 00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:45,120 Speaker 2: I'm very pro American. I think America is overwhelmingly a 249 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 2: force for good in the world. They are Australia's most 250 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:51,680 Speaker 2: important ally. They are the garrant teur of whatever security 251 00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:57,240 Speaker 2: there is in the world. But the speech, language and 252 00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:01,640 Speaker 2: behavior of the president is really very troubling these days. 253 00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:05,800 Speaker 1: Well, Greeg Sheridan, thank you very much. I feel very 254 00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:08,120 Speaker 1: lucky to have you help us work these things out. 255 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:09,440 Speaker 3: Thanks so much, Claire. 256 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:17,520 Speaker 1: Greeg Sheridan is the Australian's foreign editor. This story is 257 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:21,040 Speaker 1: moving fast. For all the latest, visit the Australian dot 258 00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:21,800 Speaker 1: com dot a you