1 00:00:03,460 --> 00:00:06,130 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed Daily Interview. I'm Sean Aylmer. 2 00:00:06,850 --> 00:00:10,000 Sean Aylmer: It's a difficult time for businesses and individuals across the 3 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:14,230 Sean Aylmer: country with lockdowns and border closures causing so much uncertainty. 4 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:18,220 Sean Aylmer: Since the pandemic began, billions have been spent by governments 5 00:00:18,220 --> 00:00:22,180 Sean Aylmer: on support and stimulus but the reality is that COVID-19 6 00:00:22,180 --> 00:00:24,520 Sean Aylmer: has been on our shores for 18 months and the 7 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:28,480 Sean Aylmer: financial stress of the pandemic is still building. New research 8 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:31,600 Sean Aylmer: has found one in two Australians are experiencing financial stress 9 00:00:31,870 --> 00:00:35,710 Sean Aylmer: with women and younger Australians of particular concern. I spoke 10 00:00:35,710 --> 00:00:39,070 Sean Aylmer: last year to Alexander Hassall, co-founder and CEO of Your 11 00:00:39,070 --> 00:00:43,330 Sean Aylmer: Financial Wellness, who commissioned the report. Alexander, welcome back to Fear and Greed. 12 00:00:43,659 --> 00:00:44,320 Alexander Hassall: Pleasure to be here. 13 00:00:44,590 --> 00:00:47,680 Sean Aylmer: It's been quite an amazing ride since we last spoke, Alexander. 14 00:00:47,740 --> 00:00:49,659 Sean Aylmer: I think when we spoke, we would have hoped that by 15 00:00:49,659 --> 00:00:51,589 Sean Aylmer: now we would have been past this pandemic. 16 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:54,790 Alexander Hassall: Yeah, that's right. It sort of seemed like we had 17 00:00:54,790 --> 00:00:57,340 Alexander Hassall: weathered the worst of it. And here we are finding 18 00:00:57,340 --> 00:01:01,120 Alexander Hassall: ourselves back in lockdown with the majority of the country 19 00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:02,440 Alexander Hassall: in that unfortunate position. 20 00:01:02,620 --> 00:01:05,380 Sean Aylmer: So how do you measure financial stress vis a vis 21 00:01:05,500 --> 00:01:06,570 Sean Aylmer: financial wellness? 22 00:01:07,090 --> 00:01:10,179 Alexander Hassall: So in order to create a sort of objective measure, 23 00:01:10,180 --> 00:01:13,360 Alexander Hassall: we partnered with the University of New South Wales to 24 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:17,920 Alexander Hassall: validate our nine question index, which has been shown by 25 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:20,020 Alexander Hassall: the Centre for Social Impact, to be a reliable measure 26 00:01:20,020 --> 00:01:23,230 Alexander Hassall: of someone's perceived level of financial wellness. And then in 27 00:01:23,230 --> 00:01:26,380 Alexander Hassall: order to gain a greater understanding of the sort of 28 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:33,760 Alexander Hassall: socio-demographic influences on financial wellness, we followed up that report, 29 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:37,119 Alexander Hassall: which was released earlier this year with a research report 30 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:40,510 Alexander Hassall: that surveyed three thousand respondents from across Australia, and they 31 00:01:40,660 --> 00:01:42,850 Alexander Hassall: answered up to one hundred questions that related to their 32 00:01:42,850 --> 00:01:47,620 Alexander Hassall: financial aspirations, financial position and financial literacy. And these respondents 33 00:01:47,620 --> 00:01:51,940 Alexander Hassall: included customers from eight different financial institutions. So that measure 34 00:01:51,940 --> 00:01:54,940 Alexander Hassall: is a score that ranges from one to 10. And 35 00:01:54,940 --> 00:01:58,390 Alexander Hassall: we found that a score of five or less indicates 36 00:01:58,390 --> 00:02:00,180 Alexander Hassall: significant levels of financial stress. 37 00:02:00,630 --> 00:02:03,430 Sean Aylmer: And when you're talking about financial stress, is this having 38 00:02:03,430 --> 00:02:06,790 Sean Aylmer: difficulty paying the mortgage or the rent, having difficulty paying 39 00:02:06,790 --> 00:02:08,410 Sean Aylmer: the household bills, that type of thing? 40 00:02:08,770 --> 00:02:11,260 Alexander Hassall: Yeah, it includes that. And it also goes to how 41 00:02:11,260 --> 00:02:15,250 Alexander Hassall: someone feels about their financial situation. So I think that 42 00:02:15,250 --> 00:02:20,619 Alexander Hassall: there's often a belief that financial wellness is basically determined 43 00:02:20,620 --> 00:02:23,560 Alexander Hassall: by income. However, what we found was that that wasn't 44 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:26,380 Alexander Hassall: the case. Simply because someone's on a high income, it 45 00:02:26,380 --> 00:02:28,810 Alexander Hassall: doesn't mean that they're doing really well. And by the 46 00:02:28,810 --> 00:02:31,090 Alexander Hassall: same token, if someone's on a more modest income, it 47 00:02:31,090 --> 00:02:35,109 Alexander Hassall: doesn't mean that they're necessarily financially stressed. What it relates 48 00:02:35,110 --> 00:02:39,399 Alexander Hassall: to really is their ability to service debt and also 49 00:02:39,610 --> 00:02:42,700 Alexander Hassall: how they feel about their current situation. So what we 50 00:02:42,700 --> 00:02:46,869 Alexander Hassall: find is that as someone progresses up the income scale, 51 00:02:46,870 --> 00:02:49,960 Alexander Hassall: so too do their expectations about the way that they'll live. 52 00:02:50,139 --> 00:02:51,489 Alexander Hassall: So it's very much relative. 53 00:02:51,850 --> 00:02:54,680 Sean Aylmer: So what's the pandemic done to financial stress? 54 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:57,400 Alexander Hassall: I think what it's done is really brought to the 55 00:02:57,400 --> 00:03:00,910 Alexander Hassall: fore the issue. I think that it was something that 56 00:03:00,910 --> 00:03:04,930 Alexander Hassall: was much discussed but not really understood. And the pandemic 57 00:03:04,930 --> 00:03:07,150 Alexander Hassall: has really brought to light some of the issues that 58 00:03:07,150 --> 00:03:10,480 Alexander Hassall: are faced by everyday Australians. So we ask people about 59 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:13,540 Alexander Hassall: their levels of savings. And what we found was that 60 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:17,620 Alexander Hassall: as someone's level of savings increased, so too does their 61 00:03:17,620 --> 00:03:20,380 Alexander Hassall: level of financial wellness. And we're not talking about huge 62 00:03:20,380 --> 00:03:24,190 Alexander Hassall: amounts necessarily. So as someone tells us that they've got 63 00:03:24,460 --> 00:03:28,030 Alexander Hassall: up to three months worth of their salary in savings, 64 00:03:28,030 --> 00:03:31,840 Alexander Hassall: we find that their level of financial wellness increases significantly 65 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:36,100 Alexander Hassall: above average. However, something that is quite alarming and sort 66 00:03:36,100 --> 00:03:39,040 Alexander Hassall: of to your point, is that 40 per cent of 67 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:43,060 Alexander Hassall: respondents told us that they had no savings whatsoever. Now, 68 00:03:43,330 --> 00:03:45,790 Alexander Hassall: going to your point about what has the pandemic done? Well, 69 00:03:45,790 --> 00:03:48,700 Alexander Hassall: I think when we saw queues around the block to 70 00:03:48,700 --> 00:03:52,450 Alexander Hassall: Centrelink when the first shutdown happened in 2020, that was 71 00:03:52,450 --> 00:03:56,110 Alexander Hassall: because people didn't have any savings and they were wondering 72 00:03:56,110 --> 00:03:58,900 Alexander Hassall: how on earth they were going to manage from a 73 00:03:58,900 --> 00:04:02,740 Alexander Hassall: situation of full-time employment to a situation where there's a 74 00:04:02,740 --> 00:04:05,530 Alexander Hassall: lockdown and they're unable to work. So it really brought 75 00:04:05,530 --> 00:04:07,840 Alexander Hassall: to the fore that issue of people not having an 76 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:09,060 Alexander Hassall: emergency fund in place. 77 00:04:09,310 --> 00:04:12,850 Sean Aylmer: Yeah, I mean, essentially, I'm middle-class right. I'm incredibly fortunate. 78 00:04:12,970 --> 00:04:15,640 Sean Aylmer: But one of the most enduring memories for me of 79 00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:19,240 Sean Aylmer: last year were the television pictures of people lined up 80 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:21,790 Sean Aylmer: trying to get into Centrelink. And it really hit home 81 00:04:21,790 --> 00:04:23,799 Sean Aylmer: to me that there are a lot of people out 82 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:27,160 Sean Aylmer: there who literally live from pay packet to pay packet. 83 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:29,650 Sean Aylmer: And if they miss one, that could mean food on 84 00:04:29,650 --> 00:04:30,180 Sean Aylmer: the table. 85 00:04:30,490 --> 00:04:33,850 Alexander Hassall: Absolutely. It's a really big issue. And as I say, 86 00:04:33,850 --> 00:04:35,920 Alexander Hassall: 40 per cent of respondents are saying that they have 87 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:39,039 Alexander Hassall: less than a month salary in savings. And research has 88 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:42,969 Alexander Hassall: consistently shown over the last decade that a third of 89 00:04:42,970 --> 00:04:45,070 Alexander Hassall: people would struggle to come up with a thousand dollars 90 00:04:45,070 --> 00:04:47,890 Alexander Hassall: cash in the event of an emergency. So it's a real, 91 00:04:47,890 --> 00:04:48,490 Alexander Hassall: real issue. 92 00:04:48,700 --> 00:04:50,760 Sean Aylmer: And women are worse off than men still? 93 00:04:51,100 --> 00:04:55,930 Alexander Hassall: Yeah, they are. Unfortunately, the research backs up information that 94 00:04:55,930 --> 00:04:58,419 Alexander Hassall: has been coming out for a number of years, looking 95 00:04:58,420 --> 00:05:01,510 Alexander Hassall: at the disparity when it comes to financial wellness compared 96 00:05:01,510 --> 00:05:03,750 Alexander Hassall: to men and women. I think there are a few 97 00:05:03,750 --> 00:05:06,810 Alexander Hassall: drivers of that, one in particular, where we're seeing that 98 00:05:06,810 --> 00:05:11,570 Alexander Hassall: women report half the level of superannuation savings as men, 99 00:05:11,670 --> 00:05:15,390 Alexander Hassall: and we know that during the pandemic, a lot of 100 00:05:15,390 --> 00:05:19,380 Alexander Hassall: women withdrew money from superannuation under the federal government's scheme. 101 00:05:19,529 --> 00:05:21,660 Alexander Hassall: And that's going to have a demonstrable impact on their 102 00:05:21,660 --> 00:05:27,030 Alexander Hassall: retirement outcomes because withdrawing ten thousand dollars, twenty thousand dollars, 103 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:30,210 Alexander Hassall: as some people did, on a lower balance will continue to 104 00:05:30,210 --> 00:05:32,789 Alexander Hassall: have a massive impact in terms of compound interest. 105 00:05:33,150 --> 00:05:36,180 Sean Aylmer: It is quite encouraging to see some companies, not many, 106 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:39,000 Sean Aylmer: they actually, when a woman goes on parental leave or 107 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:42,510 Sean Aylmer: maternity leave, some companies are introducing the idea that they'll 108 00:05:42,510 --> 00:05:45,560 Sean Aylmer: actually keep paying their super maybe for three months, six months. 109 00:05:45,570 --> 00:05:46,979 Sean Aylmer: There was one the other day I read about where 110 00:05:46,980 --> 00:05:49,230 Sean Aylmer: they're actually paying for the full 12 months of leave. 111 00:05:49,529 --> 00:05:52,020 Sean Aylmer: But I think we need something like that to address 112 00:05:52,020 --> 00:05:53,050 Sean Aylmer: what you're talking about. 113 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:57,150 Alexander Hassall: Yeah, I think that's right. Absences from the workforce as 114 00:05:57,150 --> 00:06:00,450 Alexander Hassall: a result of children does have a big impact. And 115 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:03,330 Alexander Hassall: as you say, I think that there's a lot that 116 00:06:03,330 --> 00:06:05,430 Alexander Hassall: can be done at the company level. And there's been 117 00:06:05,430 --> 00:06:07,409 Alexander Hassall: a lot of talk about what the government can do. 118 00:06:07,589 --> 00:06:10,290 Alexander Hassall: But it's an issue that needs to be addressed. I think, 119 00:06:10,290 --> 00:06:14,460 Alexander Hassall: to the gender issue again, if we look at employment status, 120 00:06:14,460 --> 00:06:19,080 Alexander Hassall: people that are in full-time employment report reasonably good levels 121 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:22,980 Alexander Hassall: of financial wellness, people that in part-time work less so, and 122 00:06:23,130 --> 00:06:27,090 Alexander Hassall: unemployed are showing the lowest level of financial wellness. However, 123 00:06:27,270 --> 00:06:30,990 Alexander Hassall: what we see also is that it's almost on par 124 00:06:31,020 --> 00:06:34,770 Alexander Hassall: unemployed with people that are reporting home duties. Now, that's 125 00:06:34,770 --> 00:06:36,990 Alexander Hassall: an issue because we know that that's a category that 126 00:06:36,990 --> 00:06:40,859 Alexander Hassall: is dominated by female respondents and really goes to the 127 00:06:40,860 --> 00:06:44,250 Alexander Hassall: point of is that role undervalued in society? 128 00:06:44,850 --> 00:06:49,110 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. Totally. Are older people better off or is financial 129 00:06:49,110 --> 00:06:50,909 Sean Aylmer: wellness index higher for older people? 130 00:06:51,270 --> 00:06:54,570 Alexander Hassall: It is higher for older people. And that could be 131 00:06:54,570 --> 00:06:57,630 Alexander Hassall: a measure of maybe content. But we do see that 132 00:06:57,779 --> 00:07:01,979 Alexander Hassall: retirees actually report the highest level of financial wellness of 133 00:07:01,980 --> 00:07:03,050 Alexander Hassall: any respondent group. 134 00:07:03,510 --> 00:07:05,609 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me, Alexander. We'll be back in a minute. 135 00:07:10,690 --> 00:07:14,110 Sean Aylmer: My guest this morning is Alexander Hassall, co-founder and CEO 136 00:07:14,110 --> 00:07:16,989 Sean Aylmer: at Your Financial Wellness. So a lot of this comes 137 00:07:16,990 --> 00:07:20,230 Sean Aylmer: down to financial literacy and part of the answer is 138 00:07:20,230 --> 00:07:20,620 Sean Aylmer: in that, I presume? 139 00:07:21,550 --> 00:07:26,370 Alexander Hassall: Yeah, that's right. So financial literacy did have a significant impact. 140 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:29,320 Alexander Hassall: And the way that we measured it was we had 141 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:34,150 Alexander Hassall: three internationally recognised questions that are standards of financial literacy. 142 00:07:34,150 --> 00:07:37,210 Alexander Hassall: So we looked at things like interest and other issues 143 00:07:37,210 --> 00:07:39,490 Alexander Hassall: around financial literacy. And what we found was a direct 144 00:07:39,490 --> 00:07:45,400 Alexander Hassall: relationship between financial literacy and financial wellness. So where somebody 145 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:47,830 Alexander Hassall: was able to answer all three of those financial literacy 146 00:07:47,830 --> 00:07:52,780 Alexander Hassall: questions correctly, their average score was 7.2 and the average 147 00:07:52,780 --> 00:07:56,260 Alexander Hassall: is 6.4, so well above. Where someone was unable to 148 00:07:56,260 --> 00:07:59,200 Alexander Hassall: answer any of those correctly, their score on average was 149 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:02,740 Alexander Hassall: 4.9 and that is significantly stressed. 150 00:08:03,190 --> 00:08:05,980 Sean Aylmer: Wow. I mean, that's a massive difference. It shows the 151 00:08:05,980 --> 00:08:07,330 Sean Aylmer: benefit of education. 152 00:08:07,630 --> 00:08:11,500 Alexander Hassall: Yeah, absolutely. And it's an issue that I think governments 153 00:08:11,500 --> 00:08:14,620 Alexander Hassall: have struggled with. The national financial literacy strategy has been 154 00:08:14,620 --> 00:08:18,220 Alexander Hassall: in place for the better part of 15 years. However, 155 00:08:18,310 --> 00:08:21,300 Alexander Hassall: we've seen little change when it comes to financial literacy. 156 00:08:21,580 --> 00:08:25,270 Alexander Hassall: So we believe that there's a role for caring financial 157 00:08:25,270 --> 00:08:30,370 Alexander Hassall: institutions to provide financial literacy education, and we think that 158 00:08:30,700 --> 00:08:32,030 Alexander Hassall: there's a role for government as well. 159 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:35,500 Sean Aylmer: So at the moment, we've got such low interest rates. 160 00:08:35,500 --> 00:08:38,290 Sean Aylmer: And so for anyone who owns a home, the benefit 161 00:08:38,290 --> 00:08:40,990 Sean Aylmer: of low interest rates, if you're already in the market 162 00:08:41,350 --> 00:08:43,360 Sean Aylmer: is pretty clear. But at some point, they are going 163 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:45,390 Sean Aylmer: to rise. It may not be for a couple of years. 164 00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:49,420 Sean Aylmer: Do you think in 2023, 2024, 2025, we're going to 165 00:08:49,420 --> 00:08:52,990 Sean Aylmer: see the stress from these big mortgages in lifting interest rates, 166 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:54,620 Sean Aylmer: hurting financial wellness? 167 00:08:54,940 --> 00:08:58,180 Alexander Hassall: Yeah, well, at the moment we see that home ownership 168 00:08:58,179 --> 00:09:01,780 Alexander Hassall: is really solidly correlated with financial wellness. And in fact, 169 00:09:01,780 --> 00:09:05,830 Alexander Hassall: it's the single most important variable when it comes to 170 00:09:05,830 --> 00:09:09,970 Alexander Hassall: financial wellness in this whole report. So the Aussie dream, 171 00:09:09,970 --> 00:09:12,459 Alexander Hassall: as it is, is alive and well. But as you mentioned, 172 00:09:12,460 --> 00:09:16,060 Alexander Hassall: you know, we've got record low interest rates and any 173 00:09:16,059 --> 00:09:18,520 Alexander Hassall: increase in interest rates is going to have a massive impact, 174 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:22,000 Alexander Hassall: especially for people that have mortgages that, you know, a million dollar mortgage, 175 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:24,400 Alexander Hassall: you don't need interest rates to go up much for 176 00:09:24,400 --> 00:09:26,830 Alexander Hassall: there to be a big problem for people that are 177 00:09:26,830 --> 00:09:30,520 Alexander Hassall: heavily indebted. However, we do see that home ownership is 178 00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:33,400 Alexander Hassall: basically the cornerstone to financial wellness in Australia. You can 179 00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:38,320 Alexander Hassall: argue why and you can argue about policy settings, but 180 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:40,809 Alexander Hassall: it's a reality. I think one of the major issues 181 00:09:40,809 --> 00:09:43,870 Alexander Hassall: as well, and this goes to your earlier point about 182 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:48,130 Alexander Hassall: older Australians experiencing high levels of financial wellness, we know 183 00:09:48,130 --> 00:09:51,010 Alexander Hassall: that home ownership amongst that group is high. Younger age 184 00:09:51,010 --> 00:09:53,770 Alexander Hassall: groups struggling to get into the market. It's a big 185 00:09:53,770 --> 00:09:54,130 Alexander Hassall: issue 186 00:09:54,550 --> 00:09:57,069 Sean Aylmer: A bit of a double-edged sword. Rising house prices. Great 187 00:09:57,080 --> 00:09:58,780 Sean Aylmer: if you've got a home. Not so good if you're 188 00:09:58,780 --> 00:09:59,480 Sean Aylmer: looking to get in. 189 00:09:59,890 --> 00:10:03,100 Alexander Hassall: Yeah, that's right. It's a tricky issue to tackle, but 190 00:10:03,100 --> 00:10:06,880 Alexander Hassall: it's one that needs to be faced because younger people 191 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:10,390 Alexander Hassall: are being priced out of the market. And in our report, 192 00:10:10,390 --> 00:10:12,850 Alexander Hassall: people that are renting their, average score out of 10 193 00:10:12,850 --> 00:10:16,900 Alexander Hassall: is 5.1, whereas those that own their home outright, it's 7.9. 194 00:10:18,140 --> 00:10:19,870 Alexander Hassall: So it's a big issue. 195 00:10:20,500 --> 00:10:23,440 Sean Aylmer: Where do we stand right now compared to 10 or 196 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:25,360 Sean Aylmer: 20 or 30 years ago? And I appreciate the survey 197 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:28,120 Sean Aylmer: hasn't been going for that long, so it's difficult to know. 198 00:10:28,270 --> 00:10:32,380 Sean Aylmer: But if you exclude COVID, we certainly, materially, we have 199 00:10:32,380 --> 00:10:34,400 Sean Aylmer: had a great run for the last 10 years because 200 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:36,640 Sean Aylmer: of deflation. And we know we've all been able to 201 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:40,570 Sean Aylmer: buy cheaper washing machines and bigger TVs and certainly electronics 202 00:10:40,570 --> 00:10:42,760 Sean Aylmer: and stuff like that. But is there a sense in 203 00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:46,390 Sean Aylmer: a financial wellness sense or a financial stress sense that 204 00:10:46,390 --> 00:10:48,189 Sean Aylmer: we are better or worse off than we were a 205 00:10:48,190 --> 00:10:48,850 Sean Aylmer: decade ago? 206 00:10:49,510 --> 00:10:52,210 Alexander Hassall: Yeah, look, I mean, obviously that's beyond the scope of 207 00:10:52,210 --> 00:10:55,300 Alexander Hassall: this report. However, I think that goes to my earlier 208 00:10:55,300 --> 00:10:59,850 Alexander Hassall: point about relativity. As living standards increase, so too do 209 00:10:59,920 --> 00:11:06,099 Alexander Hassall: people's expectations. So I think that objectively you could say 210 00:11:06,100 --> 00:11:08,800 Alexander Hassall: that someone on a higher income or higher standard of 211 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:11,830 Alexander Hassall: living should be feeling better off. However, it's all relative 212 00:11:11,830 --> 00:11:14,620 Alexander Hassall: to their current situation. And I think when it comes 213 00:11:14,620 --> 00:11:17,980 Alexander Hassall: to home ownership, if we look at what's occurred really 214 00:11:17,980 --> 00:11:21,730 Alexander Hassall: over the last decade where we've seen enormous increases in 215 00:11:21,730 --> 00:11:26,050 Alexander Hassall: house prices, younger people are feeling stressed and people that 216 00:11:26,050 --> 00:11:30,010 Alexander Hassall: are unable to break into the property market are feeling 217 00:11:30,220 --> 00:11:33,100 Alexander Hassall: very much stressed. So I'm not sure that they really 218 00:11:33,100 --> 00:11:37,240 Alexander Hassall: feel that they've enjoyed the same prosperity as others. 219 00:11:37,690 --> 00:11:39,849 Sean Aylmer: Alexander, thank you for talking to Fear and Greed. 220 00:11:40,929 --> 00:11:41,079 Alexander Hassall: A pleasure, Sean. 221 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:45,550 Sean Aylmer: That was Alexander Hassall, co-founder and CEO at Your Financial Wellness. 222 00:11:45,790 --> 00:11:47,800 Sean Aylmer: This is the Fear and Greed Daily Interview. Join me 223 00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:50,200 Sean Aylmer: every morning for the full Fear and Greed podcast with 224 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:52,589 Sean Aylmer: all the business news you need to know. I'm Sean Aylmer. 225 00:11:53,170 --> 00:11:53,920 Sean Aylmer: Enjoy your day.