1 00:00:03,770 --> 00:00:09,039 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear & Greed daily interview. I'm Sean Aylmer. Last month, Australia and India signed a 2 00:00:09,039 --> 00:00:12,329 Sean Aylmer: major interim free trade deal, cutting tariffs on a range 3 00:00:12,330 --> 00:00:15,030 Sean Aylmer: of exports from coal and rare earths, to sheep and 4 00:00:15,030 --> 00:00:18,460 Sean Aylmer: lobsters. While it's a comprehensive agreement, it's not quite a 5 00:00:18,470 --> 00:00:21,870 Sean Aylmer: full free trade deal. Major exports like dairy will have 6 00:00:21,870 --> 00:00:24,669 Sean Aylmer: to wait for a future expansion, but with the Indian 7 00:00:24,670 --> 00:00:27,330 Sean Aylmer: economy growing quickly in recent years, it's a big step 8 00:00:27,330 --> 00:00:31,819 Sean Aylmer: towards diversifying Australia's exports, reducing the reliance on China. It 9 00:00:31,820 --> 00:00:35,060 Sean Aylmer: also means a lot of opportunities for local businesses. Sonia 10 00:00:35,060 --> 00:00:38,170 Sean Aylmer: Sadiq Gandhi is the founder of the India Australia Business 11 00:00:38,170 --> 00:00:42,300 Sean Aylmer: and Community Alliance, the largest platform connecting business and entrepreneurs 12 00:00:42,300 --> 00:00:45,150 Sean Aylmer: between the two countries, and my guest this morning. Sonia, 13 00:00:45,150 --> 00:00:45,940 Sean Aylmer: welcome to Fear & Greed. 14 00:00:46,570 --> 00:00:47,640 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: Thank you for having me, Sean. 15 00:00:48,130 --> 00:00:51,560 Sean Aylmer: So let's first get an idea of the scale of 16 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:55,590 Sean Aylmer: the agreement that the respective governments have made and just 17 00:00:55,590 --> 00:00:58,530 Sean Aylmer: how important the economic relationship between Australia and India is. 18 00:01:00,490 --> 00:01:03,510 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: Look, we've finally broken the jinx, as I say. It's 19 00:01:03,510 --> 00:01:06,080 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: taken us 10 years and rightly like you said, this 20 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:10,230 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: is not the full scale free trade agreement, but of 21 00:01:10,230 --> 00:01:14,740 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: course, new beginnings and aspirations as I put it. And 22 00:01:14,740 --> 00:01:17,209 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: there is of course, a raft of measures that signify 23 00:01:17,209 --> 00:01:22,429 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: a new geo- economic and strategic ambitious plan. The agreement 24 00:01:22,430 --> 00:01:25,110 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: in itself has got of course, a lot of benefits 25 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:30,000 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: for both sides, but there's been a real holistic approach 26 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:33,130 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: to build the Australian- India bilateral story, I would say, 27 00:01:33,610 --> 00:01:35,929 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: because at the political level, it's evident that with the 28 00:01:35,930 --> 00:01:38,880 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: announcement of the annual summits that you saw pre the 29 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:42,060 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: trade agreement with the heads of governments from Modi and 30 00:01:42,060 --> 00:01:45,810 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: of course Morrison's end, making Australia only the third country 31 00:01:45,810 --> 00:01:50,990 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: which India will hold institutionalized review of relations. But at 32 00:01:50,990 --> 00:01:55,910 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: the economic level, see, when DFAT revised the India Economic 33 00:01:55,910 --> 00:02:00,710 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: Strategy to 2035, which was led by Peter Varghese, that 34 00:02:00,710 --> 00:02:05,300 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: really chalked out a post- COVID bilateral economic engagement roadmap. 35 00:02:05,700 --> 00:02:08,930 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: And that was critical in seeing this agreement come to 36 00:02:08,930 --> 00:02:12,760 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: light. And that of course focuses on the investment side 37 00:02:13,030 --> 00:02:15,680 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: and strengthening the linkages with India and Australia with key 38 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:20,070 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: policy, financial institutions and enhanced business engagement. So where we 39 00:02:20,070 --> 00:02:23,570 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: are at now is a key player in terms of 40 00:02:23,570 --> 00:02:27,550 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: services, but also our people- to- people links in terms 41 00:02:27,830 --> 00:02:31,260 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: of visas. So I think the soft diplomacy or soft 42 00:02:31,260 --> 00:02:33,830 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: power is also something to note within this free trade 43 00:02:33,910 --> 00:02:35,460 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: agreement that we see come to light. 44 00:02:36,130 --> 00:02:39,480 Sean Aylmer: Okay, Sonia, so it interests me that India and Australia 45 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:43,889 Sean Aylmer: have so many common interests in many ways, and it 46 00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:47,359 Sean Aylmer: has always been a sort of a hard slog to 47 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:50,910 Sean Aylmer: get some sort of trade deal between the two economies. 48 00:02:51,460 --> 00:02:54,010 Sean Aylmer: I mean, Australia has done things with obviously the UK 49 00:02:54,010 --> 00:02:58,270 Sean Aylmer: more recently, the U. S., different European economies in part, 50 00:02:58,470 --> 00:03:01,410 Sean Aylmer: certainly Asian economies, but India's always just almost been too 51 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:05,130 Sean Aylmer: hard. Is it the fact that that's a problem on 52 00:03:05,130 --> 00:03:08,500 Sean Aylmer: Australia side or India side? Have we overcome that mountain? 53 00:03:08,650 --> 00:03:11,110 Sean Aylmer: And given the size of the Indian economy or certainly 54 00:03:11,110 --> 00:03:14,079 Sean Aylmer: the population and the speed at which the economy's growing, 55 00:03:14,510 --> 00:03:17,609 Sean Aylmer: surely Australia should be jumping at the opportunity. 56 00:03:18,230 --> 00:03:20,620 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: You're right, Sean, it has been seen as it's in 57 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:25,120 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: the two hard basket, but I think it's also because 58 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:28,419 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: there's various factors that come into play here. I think 59 00:03:28,419 --> 00:03:31,580 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: the thing to note is the diaspora at the moment, 60 00:03:31,580 --> 00:03:35,850 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: which really highlights the two- way journey has picked up 61 00:03:35,870 --> 00:03:40,820 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: here in Australia. And Australians, as we see, are looking 62 00:03:40,820 --> 00:03:44,760 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: to India because of the perceptions that have been broken 63 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:48,620 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: down to do business with India favorably by the diaspora. And 64 00:03:48,620 --> 00:03:52,720 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: that's what the IABCA Alliance does pretty much in terms 65 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:58,520 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: of bringing the rich contribution, skills, network, talent, and capabilities 66 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:02,640 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: of the Australian Indian diaspora community together under one banner 67 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:06,310 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: and showcasing the new India through their eyes. 68 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:08,990 Sean Aylmer: Okay. Sorry. I'm going to jump in, you said IABCA, 69 00:04:08,990 --> 00:04:12,060 Sean Aylmer: which is the India Australia Business and Community Alliance, that's 70 00:04:12,060 --> 00:04:13,080 Sean Aylmer: the acronym, is that right? 71 00:04:13,130 --> 00:04:14,261 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: It is. Absolutely. It is. Yes. 72 00:04:14,260 --> 00:04:19,529 Sean Aylmer: That's what you founded. And so yes, keep going. What does the alliance do? What 73 00:04:19,529 --> 00:04:20,630 Sean Aylmer: are you aiming to do? 74 00:04:21,270 --> 00:04:25,690 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: So the Alliance is it brings together organizations, such as 75 00:04:25,700 --> 00:04:31,339 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: AsiaLink, Australian India Business Council, Export Council, all the different 76 00:04:31,770 --> 00:04:35,970 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: organizations that are working towards one common goal, which is 77 00:04:35,970 --> 00:04:40,230 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: how do we do more business with India and vice 78 00:04:40,230 --> 00:04:45,659 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: versa? How do Indian investors, when they're thinking investing, the 79 00:04:45,660 --> 00:04:48,089 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: first thing they need to think is yes, there is U. 80 00:04:48,089 --> 00:04:51,500 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: S., which they most likely think of, but the second 81 00:04:51,500 --> 00:04:55,099 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: one is Australia. And a recent research that was done 82 00:04:55,100 --> 00:04:58,440 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: by India's top think tank, the ORF Foreign Policy Think 83 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:03,260 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: Tank said that Indians trust Australia as a country, they 84 00:05:03,260 --> 00:05:07,880 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: put it second after the U. S. So 68% trust 85 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:09,630 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: in terms of... And for the U. S. it sits 86 00:05:09,630 --> 00:05:13,420 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: at about 78%. So that was a very recent shift 87 00:05:13,420 --> 00:05:16,839 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: in 2021 end that we saw when the research piece 88 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:20,339 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: was done. So I think the alliance in itself is 89 00:05:20,620 --> 00:05:26,140 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: tells that story of leveraging these diaspora capabilities and ensuring 90 00:05:26,140 --> 00:05:29,700 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: that the new age India story is told through their 91 00:05:29,700 --> 00:05:34,970 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: eyes to your standard Australian exporter. And the interesting part 92 00:05:35,070 --> 00:05:38,550 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: here, Sean, is someone like myself who came to Australia 93 00:05:38,550 --> 00:05:43,540 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: as an international student, is now your classic Australian exporter. 94 00:05:43,860 --> 00:05:48,310 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: I've got a services business here in Australia, and now 95 00:05:48,310 --> 00:05:51,370 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: I'm looking to India to take this business there. So 96 00:05:51,370 --> 00:05:56,490 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: that story, that trend is going to grow continuously. And 97 00:05:56,490 --> 00:05:58,960 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: we see that trend now taking place. 98 00:05:59,390 --> 00:06:07,580 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me, Sonia will be back in a minute. My guest this 99 00:06:07,580 --> 00:06:11,200 Sean Aylmer: morning is Sonia Sadiq Gandhi, founder of the India Australia 100 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:16,190 Sean Aylmer: Business and Community Alliance. So is it mostly services businesses 101 00:06:16,190 --> 00:06:19,180 Sean Aylmer: from Australia to India? I must say when I think 102 00:06:19,230 --> 00:06:22,109 Sean Aylmer: the other way, I think education and technology, India to 103 00:06:22,110 --> 00:06:25,560 Sean Aylmer: Australia, but what are the sectors that we're talking about? 104 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:30,520 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: I think the tariffs on of course, wine with the 105 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:33,720 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: minimum import price of, I think it's $ 5 per bottle 106 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:37,500 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: to be reduced from 150% to 100%. So that's a 107 00:06:37,500 --> 00:06:42,450 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: huge shift, 50% over 10 years. Sheep and meat tariffs, 108 00:06:42,450 --> 00:06:46,080 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: like you said earlier, 30% to be eliminated. Wool, 2. 109 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:51,620 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: 5% tariffs to be eliminated. Also avocados, onions, just the 110 00:06:51,620 --> 00:06:56,770 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: whole broader, lentils, cherries, pistachios, 30% tariffs over seven years 111 00:06:56,770 --> 00:06:59,580 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: to be eliminated. I know that dairy and beef have 112 00:06:59,580 --> 00:07:03,250 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: been excluded from the deal, but both countries going back 113 00:07:03,250 --> 00:07:06,929 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: to the services point, facilitate the recognition of professional qualifications. 114 00:07:06,930 --> 00:07:08,561 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: Now, that's a very, very big one. 115 00:07:08,561 --> 00:07:08,851 Sean Aylmer: That's a big one. Yep. 116 00:07:09,470 --> 00:07:12,110 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: That's a major one when it comes to licensing and 117 00:07:12,110 --> 00:07:15,920 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: registration procedures built when professional services bodies in both countries, 118 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:20,360 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: because that's always been a stickler in the mix. So 119 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:23,030 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: that's a big one, but also the new access for 120 00:07:23,030 --> 00:07:26,750 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: young people from India to participate in working holidays with 121 00:07:26,750 --> 00:07:29,950 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: places set for 1000 a year, Sean, that's massive. And 122 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:35,590 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: now we are talking a complete two- way conversation, right? And Indian 123 00:07:35,590 --> 00:07:39,650 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: students with bachelor's degree, I think first class honors can 124 00:07:39,650 --> 00:07:43,870 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: actually stay in Australia for three years after their graduation, 125 00:07:44,180 --> 00:07:46,070 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: rather than from the current one, which I think is 126 00:07:46,070 --> 00:07:48,400 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: two years and only applies to STEM at the moment. 127 00:07:48,700 --> 00:07:51,280 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: So that's a big game changer as well. And lots 128 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:55,440 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: of MOUs in the agricultural sectoral space as well. And of 129 00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:58,170 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: course, the stronger partnerships as we always had within the 130 00:07:58,170 --> 00:08:01,750 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: critical minerals and education, like you said, and tourism is 131 00:08:01,750 --> 00:08:04,340 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: a big one too, that we are looking at. So 132 00:08:04,570 --> 00:08:06,190 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: I think there'll be a lot of work to be 133 00:08:06,190 --> 00:08:10,002 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: done in that tourism space going forward, of course the pandemic (inaudible) . 134 00:08:10,002 --> 00:08:12,040 Sean Aylmer: It's so much tourism and we all talk about going 135 00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:15,200 Sean Aylmer: to India. And I mean, I've been to India and it's the most colorful country 136 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:17,950 Sean Aylmer: in the world, full stop, right? There is nothing more 137 00:08:17,950 --> 00:08:21,800 Sean Aylmer: colorful than spending a day in an Indian city. It's not the 138 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:24,530 Sean Aylmer: landscape, it's the people, it's quite incredible. But is that 139 00:08:24,750 --> 00:08:25,881 Sean Aylmer: tourism picking up? 140 00:08:25,881 --> 00:08:30,460 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: It is. And look, when I say... Anyone says to me, " 141 00:08:30,460 --> 00:08:32,210 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: We're going to India, where should we go?" I always say, " 142 00:08:32,210 --> 00:08:37,290 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: Treat each state, our 29 states as different countries." Because 143 00:08:37,290 --> 00:08:42,939 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: the diversity that comes out from a cuisine, couture, cultural 144 00:08:42,940 --> 00:08:47,630 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: point of view and language is completely different. And when 145 00:08:47,630 --> 00:08:50,240 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: you travel, the same hat needs to be worn when 146 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:53,440 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: you do business with India because each state is a 147 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:56,880 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: different country. And yes, tourism is definitely increasing. In fact, 148 00:08:57,110 --> 00:09:00,010 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: the IABCA, the India Australia Business and Community Alliance is 149 00:09:00,010 --> 00:09:03,390 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: for the first time, when it turns 10 in 2023, 150 00:09:03,390 --> 00:09:08,530 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: is taking a whole group to India as part of 151 00:09:08,530 --> 00:09:11,630 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: the Jaipur Literature Festival, which is the world's largest literature 152 00:09:11,630 --> 00:09:15,439 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: festival. And about 200 Aussies have been going to the 153 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:19,290 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: JLF for the past 15 years. And we are just 154 00:09:19,290 --> 00:09:22,380 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: going to add on a bit more of a business 155 00:09:22,380 --> 00:09:25,650 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: focus to that group so that we can travel and 156 00:09:25,650 --> 00:09:30,459 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: showcase that rich diversity and basically be in an Indian 157 00:09:30,460 --> 00:09:34,050 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: palace and join the literature side of things and also 158 00:09:34,050 --> 00:09:37,910 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: absorbing the beauty and diversity that India brings. 159 00:09:38,309 --> 00:09:42,560 Sean Aylmer: So it brings the question, if I'm a business person 160 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:46,559 Sean Aylmer: and I want to think about accessing India and what 161 00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:50,020 Sean Aylmer: sort of opportunities are there, what's the first step? I 162 00:09:50,020 --> 00:09:52,900 Sean Aylmer: suppose, go to the India Australia Business and Community Alliance 163 00:09:52,900 --> 00:09:56,040 Sean Aylmer: is probably a good step. Is it about that networking? 164 00:09:56,040 --> 00:09:56,550 Sean Aylmer: Is that where people should start? 165 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:02,270 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: I think reaching out to us and then obviously the 166 00:10:02,270 --> 00:10:06,700 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: federal agencies like Austrade, AIBX and Investment New South Wales 167 00:10:06,700 --> 00:10:09,670 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: and so forth are your key contacts. But we have got the 168 00:10:10,510 --> 00:10:17,060 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: key connections in how we could understand the sector, understand 169 00:10:17,090 --> 00:10:19,300 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: the outcome and then direct you. So we are not 170 00:10:19,300 --> 00:10:23,579 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: actually a business council. We are a platform that drives 171 00:10:23,580 --> 00:10:27,100 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: that business piece. So yes, to answer your question directly, 172 00:10:27,330 --> 00:10:29,870 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: connect with us, connect with the IABCAs, and then we 173 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:33,800 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: connect you with the right stakeholders because there's so many 174 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:36,610 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: different avenues when it comes to India, and people have so 175 00:10:36,610 --> 00:10:40,300 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: many different questions. Just this interview right now, we're talking about 176 00:10:40,300 --> 00:10:44,929 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: tourism, education, services, culture, food. I mean, it is a 177 00:10:44,929 --> 00:10:48,809 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: whole gamut. So from an alliance point of view, we 178 00:10:48,809 --> 00:10:52,819 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: would then direct the inquiry to the right people. And 179 00:10:52,820 --> 00:10:57,080 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: sometimes it's really about curiosity. People are curious about India 180 00:10:57,330 --> 00:10:59,650 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: and really wanting to know a bit more about the 181 00:10:59,650 --> 00:11:03,270 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: texture, about the relationships and how we can, in the 182 00:11:03,270 --> 00:11:06,350 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: next two to five years, do business with India. But 183 00:11:06,350 --> 00:11:10,280 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: right now the platform, the alliance platform in itself is focused 184 00:11:10,890 --> 00:11:15,069 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: on the diaspora, which added real texture and making the relationships 185 00:11:15,300 --> 00:11:19,500 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: less transactional because for Australian corporations, it's important to understand 186 00:11:19,500 --> 00:11:23,189 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: the business culture and the business diaspora is offering that. So 187 00:11:23,190 --> 00:11:28,309 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: our connect with these true to nation ambassadors helps exporters 188 00:11:28,309 --> 00:11:30,300 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: understand India through their eyes. 189 00:11:30,650 --> 00:11:32,500 Sean Aylmer: Sonia, thank you for talking to Fear & Greed. 190 00:11:33,059 --> 00:11:34,410 Sonia Sadiq Gandhi: Thank you so much for having me, Sean. 191 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:37,960 Sean Aylmer: That was Sonia Sadiq Gandhi, founder of the India Australia 192 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:41,420 Sean Aylmer: Business and Community Alliance. This is the Fear & Greed daily 193 00:11:41,420 --> 00:11:43,839 Sean Aylmer: interview. Join us every morning for the full episode of 194 00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:47,450 Sean Aylmer: Fear & Greed, Australia's most popular business podcast. I'm Sean Aylmer. 195 00:11:47,740 --> 00:11:48,380 Sean Aylmer: Enjoy your day.