WEBVTT - How Pauline Hanson transformed herself

0:00:05.480 --> 0:00:08.320
<v Speaker 1>From the Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey.

0:00:08.360 --> 0:00:15.640
<v Speaker 1>It's Wednesday, March twenty five, twenty twenty six. After eight

0:00:15.720 --> 0:00:19.119
<v Speaker 1>years of intense negotiation, Australia signed a ten billion dollar

0:00:19.200 --> 0:00:22.479
<v Speaker 1>trade deal with Europe plus a security pact to work

0:00:22.480 --> 0:00:26.280
<v Speaker 1>together on a defense industrial base. It'll mean me abolition

0:00:26.400 --> 0:00:30.800
<v Speaker 1>of all tariffs on fruit and veggies, almonds, walnuts and macadamias,

0:00:31.120 --> 0:00:35.239
<v Speaker 1>plus much greater access for Australian meat and dairy. The

0:00:35.280 --> 0:00:38.680
<v Speaker 1>inside story of how the deal was done is live

0:00:38.920 --> 0:00:44.440
<v Speaker 1>right now at the Australian dot com dot au. What

0:00:44.560 --> 0:00:48.560
<v Speaker 1>does Pauline Hanson really believe in? And can we believe

0:00:48.600 --> 0:00:52.200
<v Speaker 1>her when she says she hasn't changed over thirty years

0:00:52.200 --> 0:00:56.160
<v Speaker 1>in politics? Dennis Shanahan is here for a conversation full

0:00:56.320 --> 0:01:10.120
<v Speaker 1>of unexpected laughs. Dennis Shanahan is The Australian's National editor

0:01:10.160 --> 0:01:12.600
<v Speaker 1>and Dennis, without wanting to make you feel old, you

0:01:12.640 --> 0:01:15.520
<v Speaker 1>and I have both been around throughout the rise and

0:01:15.600 --> 0:01:18.800
<v Speaker 1>fall and then rise again of Pauline Hansen. She was

0:01:18.800 --> 0:01:23.040
<v Speaker 1>first elected in nineteen ninety six. She was a Liberal candidate,

0:01:23.120 --> 0:01:26.919
<v Speaker 1>but she'd been disindorsed by John Howard's Liberal Party after

0:01:27.000 --> 0:01:30.640
<v Speaker 1>making what the party believed were racist comments about Aborigines.

0:01:32.480 --> 0:01:36.360
<v Speaker 2>I come here not as a polished politician, but as

0:01:36.400 --> 0:01:40.760
<v Speaker 2>a woman who has her fair share of life's knocks.

0:01:42.000 --> 0:01:45.760
<v Speaker 2>My view on issues is based on common sense and

0:01:45.840 --> 0:01:49.840
<v Speaker 2>my experience as a mother of four children, a sole parent,

0:01:50.360 --> 0:01:53.920
<v Speaker 2>and a businesswoman running a fish and chip shop. I

0:01:53.960 --> 0:01:57.000
<v Speaker 2>won the seat of Oxley largely on an issue that

0:01:57.120 --> 0:02:02.040
<v Speaker 2>has resulted in me being called a racist. That issue

0:02:02.400 --> 0:02:07.560
<v Speaker 2>related to my comment that Aboriginals received more benefits than

0:02:07.680 --> 0:02:08.840
<v Speaker 2>non Aboriginals.

0:02:10.400 --> 0:02:14.280
<v Speaker 1>She was then elected to parliament and you sent a bright,

0:02:14.320 --> 0:02:18.840
<v Speaker 1>young reporter out to interview her. In that interview, Pauline

0:02:18.880 --> 0:02:24.760
<v Speaker 1>Hanson said she was fighting for the white community, the immigrants, Italians, Greeks, whoever.

0:02:24.880 --> 0:02:28.440
<v Speaker 1>It really doesn't matter anyone apart from the Aboriginals and

0:02:28.560 --> 0:02:32.200
<v Speaker 1>Torres Strait Islanders. And for me, that's the phrase that

0:02:32.320 --> 0:02:35.519
<v Speaker 1>has summed up who Pauline Hanson really is. Over all

0:02:35.560 --> 0:02:38.760
<v Speaker 1>of these years, she's now saying that she has not

0:02:38.919 --> 0:02:42.399
<v Speaker 1>changed her views in her whole time in public life.

0:02:42.639 --> 0:02:43.639
<v Speaker 1>What do you think about that?

0:02:44.400 --> 0:02:47.720
<v Speaker 3>Well, look, perhaps she hasn't changed her views, but I

0:02:47.760 --> 0:02:51.080
<v Speaker 3>think she has certainly changed how she expresses her views.

0:02:51.520 --> 0:02:54.680
<v Speaker 3>I think she has changed where she directs her views,

0:02:54.760 --> 0:02:57.680
<v Speaker 3>where she directs her comments, and the tone of her

0:02:57.760 --> 0:03:01.880
<v Speaker 3>rhetoric is definitely changed as well as there is a

0:03:02.000 --> 0:03:06.320
<v Speaker 3>greater awareness of Pauline Hansen of what is actually required

0:03:06.880 --> 0:03:12.119
<v Speaker 3>for her to continue success and to be even more successful.

0:03:12.480 --> 0:03:16.160
<v Speaker 3>So this idea that I'll know I haven't changed. The

0:03:16.200 --> 0:03:18.800
<v Speaker 3>times have changed and everyone's caught up with me, and

0:03:19.120 --> 0:03:21.800
<v Speaker 3>now they understand what I'm saying. I think there's a

0:03:21.800 --> 0:03:24.800
<v Speaker 3>little bit of frippery in there. What she's actually done

0:03:25.400 --> 0:03:31.200
<v Speaker 3>is developed more nuance as politician. She's developed more nuance

0:03:31.320 --> 0:03:34.440
<v Speaker 3>in the language she uses, although there are times when

0:03:34.440 --> 0:03:39.400
<v Speaker 3>she flips back, but overall, I think she has become

0:03:39.920 --> 0:03:45.240
<v Speaker 3>more sophisticated as a politician, certainly more sophisticated as a communicator.

0:03:45.960 --> 0:03:49.480
<v Speaker 3>And while her views are essentially the same as far

0:03:49.520 --> 0:03:56.200
<v Speaker 3>as i'm tax family, aboriginal dependency and immigration, I think

0:03:56.240 --> 0:04:01.760
<v Speaker 3>that she has changed and she is adapting to changed times.

0:04:02.160 --> 0:04:04.760
<v Speaker 3>And I think the South Australian election has proved.

0:04:04.600 --> 0:04:08.520
<v Speaker 4>That I love you too. That's why I've never given up.

0:04:08.640 --> 0:04:11.440
<v Speaker 4>And I say to people, stand your ground, if you're right,

0:04:11.480 --> 0:04:13.440
<v Speaker 4>have a right to have an opinion. We are a

0:04:13.520 --> 0:04:16.000
<v Speaker 4>strands to be proud of it, stand tall and strong.

0:04:17.400 --> 0:04:20.800
<v Speaker 1>It's interesting that she still presents herself as sort of

0:04:20.800 --> 0:04:22.599
<v Speaker 1>the only one who'll tell you the truth and the

0:04:22.640 --> 0:04:26.120
<v Speaker 1>only one who speaks for you, and the representative or

0:04:26.120 --> 0:04:29.800
<v Speaker 1>avatar of free speech. Because in her maiden speech, you

0:04:29.880 --> 0:04:32.719
<v Speaker 1>know later that year in nineteen ninety six, which you covered,

0:04:33.240 --> 0:04:37.600
<v Speaker 1>she said Australia is in danger of being swamped by Asians.

0:04:38.120 --> 0:04:41.640
<v Speaker 2>I believe we are in danger of being swamped by Asians.

0:04:42.120 --> 0:04:47.160
<v Speaker 2>Between nineteen eighty four and nineteen ninety five, forty percent

0:04:47.200 --> 0:04:50.320
<v Speaker 2>of all migrants into this country were of Asian origin.

0:04:51.800 --> 0:04:56.000
<v Speaker 2>They have their own culture and religion, form ghettos and

0:04:56.120 --> 0:04:59.960
<v Speaker 2>do not assimilate. Of course I will be called race.

0:05:01.080 --> 0:05:03.880
<v Speaker 2>But if I can invite who I want into my home,

0:05:04.440 --> 0:05:06.880
<v Speaker 2>then I should have the right to have a say

0:05:07.400 --> 0:05:09.240
<v Speaker 2>in who comes into my country.

0:05:11.080 --> 0:05:14.719
<v Speaker 1>Now I cannot imagine her making that remark today, although

0:05:14.839 --> 0:05:18.080
<v Speaker 1>she does say things like questioning whether there are any

0:05:18.120 --> 0:05:22.159
<v Speaker 1>good Muslims. Just taking those two remarks in US, what

0:05:22.200 --> 0:05:24.520
<v Speaker 1>do you think is the difference there? Is it that

0:05:24.600 --> 0:05:28.919
<v Speaker 1>she is just more sophisticated and more nuanced now, or

0:05:29.040 --> 0:05:32.760
<v Speaker 1>is it that she's curbed herself because she knows that

0:05:32.800 --> 0:05:34.640
<v Speaker 1>to say something like that today would not fly.

0:05:35.680 --> 0:05:38.480
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. Look, I think a couple of things for a start,

0:05:39.040 --> 0:05:42.719
<v Speaker 3>because of that speech she delivered in Parliament, and I

0:05:42.800 --> 0:05:46.000
<v Speaker 3>watched and thought, this is going to be interesting. She

0:05:46.560 --> 0:05:50.719
<v Speaker 3>doesn't actually have to continue to repeat the same messages

0:05:51.400 --> 0:05:53.880
<v Speaker 3>people think have in the back of their mind. I

0:05:53.920 --> 0:05:57.080
<v Speaker 3>know what Pauline's thinking. I know what Pauline is going

0:05:57.120 --> 0:06:00.360
<v Speaker 3>to do. And in that speech she said she was

0:06:00.560 --> 0:06:03.560
<v Speaker 3>just a fish and chip shop owner. She was speaking

0:06:03.920 --> 0:06:06.760
<v Speaker 3>from common sense, and just in an interview with The

0:06:06.800 --> 0:06:11.440
<v Speaker 3>Australian on Monday, she talked about operating from her gut.

0:06:11.960 --> 0:06:15.039
<v Speaker 3>So she's still talking in the same way. So she

0:06:15.120 --> 0:06:18.440
<v Speaker 3>doesn't actually have to come out and say that Australia

0:06:18.440 --> 0:06:22.480
<v Speaker 3>will be swamped by Asians, because for those who remember

0:06:22.520 --> 0:06:25.080
<v Speaker 3>that and for those who give her credit for it,

0:06:25.160 --> 0:06:28.840
<v Speaker 3>she doesn't have to repeat it. But interestingly, in that

0:06:29.000 --> 0:06:33.920
<v Speaker 3>first speech, where she did talk about the separation of Australia,

0:06:33.960 --> 0:06:38.640
<v Speaker 3>particularly along race lines, with Indigenous Australians and white Australia,

0:06:39.279 --> 0:06:43.159
<v Speaker 3>she also said while she was against immigration, she was

0:06:43.200 --> 0:06:47.560
<v Speaker 3>against people coming in who couldn't speak English. They formed

0:06:47.600 --> 0:06:51.520
<v Speaker 3>ghettos and that they stuck together and all that sort

0:06:51.520 --> 0:06:56.000
<v Speaker 3>of stuff. She actually also said she also believed that

0:06:56.080 --> 0:07:01.760
<v Speaker 3>Australians who were already in Australia of ethnic background were

0:07:01.920 --> 0:07:06.000
<v Speaker 3>very good Australians. Now, I think what she said recently

0:07:06.040 --> 0:07:10.080
<v Speaker 3>about Muslims is actually a way of how she has

0:07:10.160 --> 0:07:14.080
<v Speaker 3>developed this more nuanced approach. Where she said, oh, I

0:07:14.080 --> 0:07:17.320
<v Speaker 3>don't know if there are any good Muslims. It was

0:07:17.720 --> 0:07:20.280
<v Speaker 3>not oh, we've got to ban Muslims from coming to

0:07:20.280 --> 0:07:24.080
<v Speaker 3>Australia because they live in ghettos. She was just sort

0:07:24.120 --> 0:07:30.120
<v Speaker 3>of tapping in to obviously a sense of Islamophobia after

0:07:30.160 --> 0:07:34.680
<v Speaker 3>the Bondai massacre. Now I think that this demonstrates she

0:07:34.920 --> 0:07:38.800
<v Speaker 3>is prepared to keep up the same message, the message

0:07:38.800 --> 0:07:41.680
<v Speaker 3>from that original speech, but she's doing it in a

0:07:41.720 --> 0:07:45.920
<v Speaker 3>different way. She's doing in a more nuanced way. And

0:07:46.280 --> 0:07:49.520
<v Speaker 3>the other thing that I think is interesting is that

0:07:50.000 --> 0:07:53.480
<v Speaker 3>her first speech and her first years, her first decades,

0:07:53.960 --> 0:07:58.720
<v Speaker 3>it was all about Pauline Hansen. It was the Pauline

0:07:58.800 --> 0:08:03.000
<v Speaker 3>Hansen One Nation Party. It was FOM. It wasn't just on,

0:08:03.120 --> 0:08:08.560
<v Speaker 3>it was FONM. And she recently has realized that with

0:08:08.720 --> 0:08:12.920
<v Speaker 3>the growth of support for One nation. She needs to

0:08:13.000 --> 0:08:17.680
<v Speaker 3>gain some credibility. It's not just good enough to be

0:08:18.240 --> 0:08:22.480
<v Speaker 3>a party of protest, a party of grievance. She resents

0:08:22.520 --> 0:08:26.720
<v Speaker 3>the fact people call her a populist party because what

0:08:26.760 --> 0:08:29.560
<v Speaker 3>she's trying to do is change that view. I mean,

0:08:29.800 --> 0:08:32.720
<v Speaker 3>she plays with populism and says, oh, aren't we meant

0:08:32.720 --> 0:08:36.480
<v Speaker 3>to be popular? Aren't politicians meant to be popular? Well? Yes,

0:08:36.760 --> 0:08:40.600
<v Speaker 3>but populus means another thing. So it has to start

0:08:40.760 --> 0:08:44.640
<v Speaker 3>to get a different view of what One Nation is

0:08:45.240 --> 0:08:47.720
<v Speaker 3>and what Pauline Hanson is as well.

0:08:51.679 --> 0:08:54.800
<v Speaker 1>I guess populism is saying things that are very easy

0:08:54.840 --> 0:08:58.360
<v Speaker 1>solutions that you have no capacity or real intention of

0:08:58.520 --> 0:09:01.720
<v Speaker 1>putting into effect. For example, well maybe we should just

0:09:01.720 --> 0:09:04.480
<v Speaker 1>hang all the criminals, or maybe we should just turn

0:09:04.520 --> 0:09:07.280
<v Speaker 1>away all the immigrants. So when you look at her

0:09:07.280 --> 0:09:10.480
<v Speaker 1>policies on the One Nation website, now the first thing

0:09:10.559 --> 0:09:13.319
<v Speaker 1>you see is the family tax policy. This is about

0:09:13.320 --> 0:09:17.040
<v Speaker 1>income splitting. This is a very old debating politics, Tennis.

0:09:17.080 --> 0:09:19.200
<v Speaker 1>You must need a trigger warning before anyone talks about

0:09:19.240 --> 0:09:22.440
<v Speaker 1>income splitting. But basically, it's if a couple earns two incomes,

0:09:22.679 --> 0:09:25.320
<v Speaker 1>you can combine those incomes and then average them out

0:09:25.360 --> 0:09:29.520
<v Speaker 1>so that you can access more family support. There are

0:09:29.559 --> 0:09:34.360
<v Speaker 1>things like constitutional recognition of free speech. There is abolishing

0:09:34.400 --> 0:09:40.400
<v Speaker 1>the Department of Climate Change means testing the NDIS so nowadays,

0:09:40.559 --> 0:09:44.160
<v Speaker 1>would you characterize those policies as kind of pure populism

0:09:44.200 --> 0:09:49.320
<v Speaker 1>with no real practical possibility of either being accomplished.

0:09:48.800 --> 0:09:53.760
<v Speaker 3>Or working well. This is another thing where she has changed.

0:09:54.200 --> 0:09:58.520
<v Speaker 3>She has recognized that just being grievance and protest party

0:09:58.640 --> 0:10:03.000
<v Speaker 3>is not enough, and she is putting out policies family

0:10:03.640 --> 0:10:08.920
<v Speaker 3>income splitting. Ironically, she's also talking about abolishing the Climate

0:10:09.000 --> 0:10:14.319
<v Speaker 3>Change Department of downgrading solar and wind so it doesn't

0:10:14.360 --> 0:10:17.720
<v Speaker 3>take up agricultural land. These are all very popular policies

0:10:17.960 --> 0:10:21.720
<v Speaker 3>in the regional areas, but she is actually putting these

0:10:21.800 --> 0:10:26.600
<v Speaker 3>up as policies because what is hurting her And this

0:10:26.679 --> 0:10:29.800
<v Speaker 3>is the line that Matt Canavan, new Nationals leader, has used.

0:10:30.200 --> 0:10:35.200
<v Speaker 3>She hasn't built anything in the years she's been in politics.

0:10:35.480 --> 0:10:38.480
<v Speaker 3>There's not one road, not one bridge, not one dam

0:10:38.720 --> 0:10:41.880
<v Speaker 3>she can point to and say I did that, And

0:10:41.920 --> 0:10:45.400
<v Speaker 3>so she realizes she needs to do this. And the

0:10:45.440 --> 0:10:49.400
<v Speaker 3>irony here is that with income splitting. Various people have

0:10:49.400 --> 0:10:52.920
<v Speaker 3>looked at this over the years, including Peter Dutton, who also,

0:10:53.000 --> 0:10:58.160
<v Speaker 3>by the way, wanted nuclear energy and less emphasis on renewables.

0:10:58.400 --> 0:11:02.920
<v Speaker 3>So in a way, Pauline Hanson is coming in and

0:11:03.040 --> 0:11:06.560
<v Speaker 3>eating Peter Dutton's leftover at lunch. You know, she's just

0:11:06.640 --> 0:11:08.800
<v Speaker 3>picking up on that, but she can see that she

0:11:08.920 --> 0:11:12.679
<v Speaker 3>needs that credibility. Now part of that as well is

0:11:12.760 --> 0:11:16.679
<v Speaker 3>her adoption, not just as the policies, but the personnel.

0:11:17.440 --> 0:11:20.880
<v Speaker 3>She now has Cory Bernardi in the Upper House. In

0:11:20.920 --> 0:11:25.120
<v Speaker 3>South Australia, she has former Deputy Prime Minister and National's

0:11:25.240 --> 0:11:29.040
<v Speaker 3>Leader Barnaby Joyce in the House of Representatives. She has

0:11:29.160 --> 0:11:36.760
<v Speaker 3>now two former ministers in coalition governments representing her party

0:11:37.320 --> 0:11:40.640
<v Speaker 3>and it's interesting to see that she's been able to

0:11:40.679 --> 0:11:44.199
<v Speaker 3>pull them around her Now people are saying she's always

0:11:44.320 --> 0:11:49.719
<v Speaker 3>had this problem of translating polling support into seats, and

0:11:50.120 --> 0:11:53.920
<v Speaker 3>she's achieved this in South Australia. Well, actually, when you

0:11:53.960 --> 0:11:56.520
<v Speaker 3>look at it, she still has a real big problem.

0:11:57.000 --> 0:12:01.520
<v Speaker 3>In lost in translation because one got more primary votes

0:12:02.040 --> 0:12:06.360
<v Speaker 3>than the Liberals, much more. The Labor Party lost some

0:12:06.440 --> 0:12:08.880
<v Speaker 3>seat and the some evidence of course that some of

0:12:08.920 --> 0:12:12.480
<v Speaker 3>those loss of votes for Labor Party went to one Nation.

0:12:13.400 --> 0:12:17.120
<v Speaker 3>And yet what's happened the Labor Party has increased its

0:12:17.200 --> 0:12:22.240
<v Speaker 3>number of seats. The Liberal Party is holding on and

0:12:22.320 --> 0:12:25.400
<v Speaker 3>may actually end up with more seats than one nation.

0:12:26.160 --> 0:12:29.840
<v Speaker 3>So what we are still seeing is a problem that

0:12:29.920 --> 0:12:33.920
<v Speaker 3>paul Enhansen faces, and she will face in farrh in

0:12:34.000 --> 0:12:37.720
<v Speaker 3>the by election and in Victoria in the state election.

0:12:37.880 --> 0:12:42.440
<v Speaker 3>There is that she still hasn't convinced enough people in

0:12:42.520 --> 0:12:46.720
<v Speaker 3>the right places to change their vote to one nation.

0:12:47.240 --> 0:12:50.000
<v Speaker 3>She says, I don't want to be prime minister. I

0:12:50.000 --> 0:12:52.199
<v Speaker 3>don't want to be a leader of the opposition. But

0:12:52.280 --> 0:12:56.720
<v Speaker 3>she wants to express herself for Australians. Okay, that's good,

0:12:57.040 --> 0:12:59.719
<v Speaker 3>but she can't continue to do that unless she is

0:13:00.120 --> 0:13:04.480
<v Speaker 3>credible alternative to the parties she's out polling.

0:13:08.440 --> 0:13:11.920
<v Speaker 1>Coming up. What the major parties can learn from Hanson.

0:13:28.280 --> 0:13:30.200
<v Speaker 1>Every so often in the corporate world, they come up

0:13:30.240 --> 0:13:33.240
<v Speaker 1>with a new obnoxious phrase. It used to be moving forward,

0:13:33.520 --> 0:13:37.679
<v Speaker 1>which we saw politicians adopting very keenly. Now it's thought leadership.

0:13:38.160 --> 0:13:40.760
<v Speaker 1>Everyone's a thought leader all of a sudden, and Pauline

0:13:40.760 --> 0:13:42.480
<v Speaker 1>Hanson kind of is a thought leader, isn't she.

0:13:43.320 --> 0:13:46.520
<v Speaker 2>I've led a lot of the policy and the agenda

0:13:46.600 --> 0:13:49.120
<v Speaker 2>for both the Liberal and the Labor Party over the years.

0:13:49.400 --> 0:13:52.080
<v Speaker 2>I was the first one to come out against the Voice. Also,

0:13:52.280 --> 0:13:56.719
<v Speaker 2>you know my opposal to the COVID nineteen jab Then

0:13:56.720 --> 0:13:59.559
<v Speaker 2>I've got the code of conduct for these sugar cane growers.

0:14:00.000 --> 0:14:02.840
<v Speaker 2>I got the Senate inquiry up into the banking system,

0:14:02.840 --> 0:14:05.680
<v Speaker 2>which led to the Royal Commission, the Family Law Act.

0:14:05.760 --> 0:14:07.040
<v Speaker 2>There it goes on and on.

0:14:08.320 --> 0:14:12.800
<v Speaker 1>She has captured a kind of vibe about patriotism and

0:14:12.920 --> 0:14:16.560
<v Speaker 1>optimism and plane speaking and so on Trumpian kind of

0:14:16.640 --> 0:14:20.640
<v Speaker 1>vibe that the Coalition, the Liberal and National parties just

0:14:20.760 --> 0:14:24.280
<v Speaker 1>cannot get. Is that the lesson for them that they

0:14:24.320 --> 0:14:27.840
<v Speaker 1>need to be talking more about ideas, maybe even instead

0:14:27.880 --> 0:14:28.520
<v Speaker 1>of policies.

0:14:28.960 --> 0:14:31.760
<v Speaker 3>Could I just say, I'm so sick of off ramp.

0:14:33.240 --> 0:14:36.480
<v Speaker 3>There's off ramps all over the world. I'm sick of

0:14:36.480 --> 0:14:38.560
<v Speaker 3>off ramps. I wish they'd take an off ramp on

0:14:38.600 --> 0:14:44.400
<v Speaker 3>thought leadership. You're right, because the difficulty for the Coalition

0:14:45.520 --> 0:14:49.360
<v Speaker 3>is that they are a party of government, and so

0:14:49.640 --> 0:14:53.200
<v Speaker 3>when the decision was made to oppose the Voice, they

0:14:53.240 --> 0:14:57.480
<v Speaker 3>had to go through their processes. Pauling Hanson, effectively as

0:14:57.520 --> 0:15:00.720
<v Speaker 3>an independent loaner, could just come out and say I'm

0:15:00.720 --> 0:15:01.200
<v Speaker 3>against it.

0:15:01.600 --> 0:15:01.800
<v Speaker 4>Now.

0:15:01.880 --> 0:15:05.080
<v Speaker 3>The Nationals came out and did it, and eventually the

0:15:05.120 --> 0:15:07.560
<v Speaker 3>Liberals came out and did it. So she may have

0:15:07.640 --> 0:15:10.560
<v Speaker 3>been the first, but only because she wasn't held back

0:15:10.840 --> 0:15:13.440
<v Speaker 3>by any sort of those demands of being a party

0:15:13.560 --> 0:15:17.480
<v Speaker 3>of government. It's the same with other issues with the

0:15:17.520 --> 0:15:20.960
<v Speaker 3>net zero Okay, well the Coalition has got that now,

0:15:21.400 --> 0:15:24.440
<v Speaker 3>and I think again the new leader of the Nationals,

0:15:24.480 --> 0:15:28.560
<v Speaker 3>Matt Canavan, recognizes this, and I think Angus Taylor is

0:15:28.600 --> 0:15:30.480
<v Speaker 3>making a bit of a mistake if he starts to

0:15:30.560 --> 0:15:36.440
<v Speaker 3>attack Paul Enhanson, and certainly not to attack Paul enhanced supporters.

0:15:37.080 --> 0:15:39.040
<v Speaker 3>You know, someone suggesting, oh, we're not going to talk

0:15:39.040 --> 0:15:42.240
<v Speaker 3>about deplorables. Well, if you're talking about deplorables, you're talking

0:15:42.240 --> 0:15:46.880
<v Speaker 3>about deplorables. The danger here is that the Coalition has

0:15:46.880 --> 0:15:49.080
<v Speaker 3>to go back and say, well, actually we looked at

0:15:49.120 --> 0:15:52.040
<v Speaker 3>income splitting, we are looking at income splitting, we are

0:15:52.320 --> 0:15:55.560
<v Speaker 3>not adopting a net zero target, we're doing all these

0:15:55.560 --> 0:15:59.320
<v Speaker 3>other things. So it's the advantage that she has where

0:15:59.360 --> 0:16:03.040
<v Speaker 3>she can operate like a gorilla and she can then

0:16:03.440 --> 0:16:06.800
<v Speaker 3>just come in, do what she wants and duck out again.

0:16:07.040 --> 0:16:09.200
<v Speaker 3>So a bit like swamp fox, you know, she can

0:16:09.240 --> 0:16:12.720
<v Speaker 3>come in move against the other characters. And this is

0:16:12.760 --> 0:16:17.520
<v Speaker 3>the other thing where she has changed, because initially she

0:16:17.840 --> 0:16:21.880
<v Speaker 3>was talking about the swamp. She talked about it before

0:16:22.160 --> 0:16:26.360
<v Speaker 3>Trump did. She talked about in that initial speech fat

0:16:26.400 --> 0:16:31.320
<v Speaker 3>cat bureaucrats making money telling people what to do. And

0:16:31.440 --> 0:16:36.920
<v Speaker 3>now she is actually in a position where she has

0:16:37.000 --> 0:16:39.960
<v Speaker 3>to actually start to act with a little bit of

0:16:40.000 --> 0:16:43.560
<v Speaker 3>the idea of the apparatus around her. And so I

0:16:43.600 --> 0:16:46.880
<v Speaker 3>think this is where the Nationals and the Liberals need

0:16:46.920 --> 0:16:49.560
<v Speaker 3>to say, yes, we've been talking about this, we are

0:16:49.600 --> 0:16:53.560
<v Speaker 3>talking about this, get out there with policies, because it's

0:16:53.680 --> 0:16:57.400
<v Speaker 3>not rhetoric that will defeat Pauline Hanson as far as

0:16:57.400 --> 0:17:01.080
<v Speaker 3>the coalition parties are concerned, or Labor for that matter.

0:17:01.840 --> 0:17:06.080
<v Speaker 3>And South Australian Premier of Peter melanowskis said that you

0:17:06.160 --> 0:17:09.800
<v Speaker 3>don't attack the supporters. You try and appeal to them.

0:17:10.160 --> 0:17:15.120
<v Speaker 3>You offer alternative appeals to them, whether it's patriotism for progressives,

0:17:15.720 --> 0:17:20.600
<v Speaker 3>and interestingly the Premier of South Australia was citing Henry Lawson.

0:17:21.680 --> 0:17:23.720
<v Speaker 3>I don't know if they really want to go back

0:17:23.720 --> 0:17:29.800
<v Speaker 3>into Henry Lawson too far. Wide Australia just ann you know.

0:17:30.280 --> 0:17:30.920
<v Speaker 1>Exit ramp.

0:17:31.280 --> 0:17:34.680
<v Speaker 3>But I think it's great, Henry Lawson being quoted Matt

0:17:34.760 --> 0:17:38.280
<v Speaker 3>Canavan quoting Banjo Patterson. Great, that's all to be done.

0:17:38.359 --> 0:17:40.720
<v Speaker 3>But these are things that need to be tapped in.

0:17:40.920 --> 0:17:43.600
<v Speaker 3>As you say, clear, they need to be offering some

0:17:43.640 --> 0:17:46.919
<v Speaker 3>sort of a vision for people, and people feel without

0:17:46.960 --> 0:17:49.160
<v Speaker 3>hope and that's why they have turned to one nation.

0:17:49.640 --> 0:17:52.640
<v Speaker 3>It's a quick remedy, but it's one that they can recognize.

0:17:52.960 --> 0:17:58.439
<v Speaker 3>It's simple. But her leadership has changed, while remarkably the

0:17:58.560 --> 0:18:01.960
<v Speaker 3>times are fitting her new appearance.

0:18:03.960 --> 0:18:06.560
<v Speaker 1>Well, Dennis, you've hit all your key performance indicators, so

0:18:07.160 --> 0:18:09.119
<v Speaker 1>thank you. Your deliverables have been met, so thank you

0:18:09.200 --> 0:18:19.440
<v Speaker 1>very much. Dennis Shanahan is The Australian's National editor. You

0:18:19.480 --> 0:18:23.040
<v Speaker 1>can read all his analysis anytime at the Australian dot

0:18:23.080 --> 0:18:23.960
<v Speaker 1>com dot au