WEBVTT - Albanese abandons plans to bring home 'ISIS brides'

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<v Speaker 1>From Schwartz Media. I'm Ashlan McGee.

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<v Speaker 2>This is seven am. When you look at the Al

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<v Speaker 2>Roje refugee camp in northern Syria on Google Maps, you

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<v Speaker 2>can see that it's only a few hundred meters away

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<v Speaker 2>from an airport tarmac, But for the Australians stuck in

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<v Speaker 2>the camp, getting on a plane home could.

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<v Speaker 1>Still be years away.

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<v Speaker 2>About forty women and their children are living there intense

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<v Speaker 2>with no water, no electricity, and no real plan for

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<v Speaker 2>their future. Today the Saturday Papers Jason Katsuki so on

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<v Speaker 2>why the government seems to have abandoned its plans to

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<v Speaker 2>bring them home. It's Tuesday, May twenty one. Jason, tell

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<v Speaker 2>me a bit about these camps where the Australian women

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<v Speaker 2>and children are stranded.

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<v Speaker 3>So we think about forty forty one Australian citizens, women

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<v Speaker 3>and children who are living mostly in Al Roj, which

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<v Speaker 3>is a large camp of internally displaced persons that's controlled

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<v Speaker 3>by the Syrian Democratic forces up near the Iraqi border.

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<v Speaker 1>These are the.

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<v Speaker 4>Women and children left behind after the fall of Islamic

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<v Speaker 4>State in twenty nineteen.

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<v Speaker 1>We're all tayed, to be honest, like we just want

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<v Speaker 1>a normal life.

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<v Speaker 3>These are women who went to join the kind of

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<v Speaker 3>Islamic Caliphate and married men who were considered to be

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<v Speaker 3>fighters and part of that Islamic state terrorist group.

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<v Speaker 5>It's understood most of the women won't face any charges

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<v Speaker 5>when and if they returned to Australia after they were

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<v Speaker 5>trafficked or coerced by relatives to enter Syria.

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<v Speaker 3>Many of them had children while they've been living over

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<v Speaker 3>there in Syria, and now that the war is kind

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<v Speaker 3>of essentially over, they are stranded in these camps.

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<v Speaker 2>We're tired, we're broken, which shaded.

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<v Speaker 3>We just want normality for our kids.

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<v Speaker 5>It's not fair.

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<v Speaker 1>It's not fair for the kids.

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<v Speaker 6>It's not fair for us.

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<v Speaker 3>Most of us didn't even come willingly. I'm not a

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<v Speaker 3>refugee of a country, like what am I doing. The

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<v Speaker 3>Oleroche camp is located next to an oil field, so

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<v Speaker 3>there's a lot of pollution that's coming from the oil

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<v Speaker 3>field and floating through the camp. It's located in a desert.

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<v Speaker 3>It gets very very hot there in summer. Temperatures now

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<v Speaker 3>already in the mid to high forties, so it's very

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<v Speaker 3>unpleasant conditions. Obviously very crowded. These are tents and it's

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<v Speaker 3>very makeshift. None of those essential kind of services that

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<v Speaker 3>we're used to hear. You're running water, electricity, you have

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<v Speaker 3>very harsh conditions and of course no air conditioning. What

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<v Speaker 3>the governing authority there wants is for all of the

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<v Speaker 3>country whose citizens are detained in this camp, they want

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<v Speaker 3>those countries to repatriate their citizens to their home countries.

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<v Speaker 2>So Jason, it's not just the governing authority there in

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<v Speaker 2>northern Syria that wants these Australians returned home, is it.

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<v Speaker 1>There's a bit of pressure back here as well.

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<v Speaker 3>So Save the Children has been one of the strongest

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<v Speaker 3>advocates for the repatriation of the Australian citizens who are

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<v Speaker 3>in Syria. Matt Tinkler, the CEO of Save the Children Australia.

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<v Speaker 3>One of the things he said this week was these

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<v Speaker 3>are Australian citizens.

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<v Speaker 7>They are all Australian citizens. All of these children are innocent,

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<v Speaker 7>All of them are trapped in a dire situation.

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<v Speaker 3>What is the value of Australian citizenship if your government

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<v Speaker 3>is not prepared to step in and help you when

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<v Speaker 3>you're stranded overseas.

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<v Speaker 7>There's no good reason and ow of you are no

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<v Speaker 7>reasonable explanation as to why some women and children were

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<v Speaker 7>brought home and others were not.

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<v Speaker 3>They had been in encouraging the former Morrison government to

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<v Speaker 3>repatriate those citizens. Scott Morrison authorized the return of eight

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<v Speaker 3>children in twenty nineteen, and I think there was an

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<v Speaker 3>expectation that he was prepared to consider the repatriation of

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<v Speaker 3>all the others, but then COVID got in the way.

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<v Speaker 3>Then when the new government came in in October twenty

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<v Speaker 3>twenty two, they repatriated seventeen people, that was four women

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<v Speaker 3>and thirteen children, and then things kind of stopped, and

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<v Speaker 3>save the children continued to advocate the return of the

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<v Speaker 3>other forty, but there's been no movement. So they decided

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<v Speaker 3>that the best thing they could do to put pressure

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<v Speaker 3>on the government was to try to get the court,

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<v Speaker 3>the Federal Court, to issue a rid of habeas corpus

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<v Speaker 3>so literally bring the body to the court. The Federal

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<v Speaker 3>Court is a world away from a Middle Eastern war zone,

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<v Speaker 3>but a group of Australians stuck in Syria believe this

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<v Speaker 3>is where they can win back their freedom. That attempt

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<v Speaker 3>was heard in the Federal Court by Justice Mashinsky and

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<v Speaker 3>he dismissed the application on the basis that the Australian

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<v Speaker 3>government just does not have control of these people and

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<v Speaker 3>therefore the court was unabled to issue this rid of

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<v Speaker 3>habeas corpus and Save the Children have appealed that ruling.

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<v Speaker 3>So Greg Barton, he's a research professor in Global Islamic

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<v Speaker 3>politics at Deacon University. He has provided an affidavit in

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<v Speaker 3>support of Save the Children application. It's his very strong

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<v Speaker 3>view that there's no obstacles to the Australian government repatriating

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<v Speaker 3>the citizens who are located there. He is also of

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<v Speaker 3>the strong view that the governing authority in that part

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<v Speaker 3>of Syria very much wants the Australian government to repatriate

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<v Speaker 3>our citizens and that they will do whatever they can

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<v Speaker 3>to help to facilitate that.

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<v Speaker 1>So why nonsense? Then what has happened?

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<v Speaker 2>Do you think that's really put the brakes on this?

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<v Speaker 3>I think this is a classic case of politics getting

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<v Speaker 3>in the way of good policy. Prime Minister Albanezi knows.

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<v Speaker 3>I think that the right decision is to bring all

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<v Speaker 3>of these citizens back home. He made a very powerful

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<v Speaker 3>argument in favor of why that's necessary in October of

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<v Speaker 3>twenty twenty two.

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<v Speaker 4>People have gone to where they are from. That is

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<v Speaker 4>what has occurred here and that there's been something that's

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<v Speaker 4>been worked through with the States, and it has been

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<v Speaker 4>worked through on the basis of the national security advice.

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<v Speaker 4>Will keep acting on the national security advice. Our priority

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<v Speaker 4>is to keep Australian safe.

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<v Speaker 3>But once those seventeen people were back home, community leaders

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<v Speaker 3>around where those seventeen people were returned, these are people

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<v Speaker 3>in Western Sydney, started to get a bit worried about

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<v Speaker 3>the security risks posed by these seventeen people. Those community

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<v Speaker 3>leaders are led by there's three mayors from Western Sydney.

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<v Speaker 3>They turned this into a national news story.

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<v Speaker 4>Where the radio silence from the government, from the Albanesi government,

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<v Speaker 4>a complete lack of details.

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<v Speaker 3>The communities where these women and children are.

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<v Speaker 5>Likely to end up have accused the government of playing politics.

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<v Speaker 3>One that was quite astutely kind of fanned by Peter Dutton,

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<v Speaker 3>the leader of the Opposition.

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<v Speaker 8>There is a very significant risk in bringing some of

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<v Speaker 8>these people to our country that can't be mitigated, frankly,

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<v Speaker 8>not to the level that we would require to keep

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<v Speaker 8>Australian safe. And I think the government really needs to

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<v Speaker 8>explain properly what it is they're proposing here.

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<v Speaker 3>But the most prominent of those was Frank Carbon, the

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<v Speaker 3>mayor of Fairfield, which is located in western Sydney.

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<v Speaker 9>We stand by them. They're not welcoming Fairfood and if

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<v Speaker 9>a wants to bring them back, well perhaps he can

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<v Speaker 9>put them in his own neighborhood where he lives. We

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<v Speaker 9>certainly don't want to be Fairfuld. We don't think it's so.

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<v Speaker 3>He's a former member of the Labor Party who became

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<v Speaker 3>an independent. He's quite a popular local mayor and he

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<v Speaker 3>really became a thorn in the side of the federal

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<v Speaker 3>government's plans to repatriate more of the Australians who are

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<v Speaker 3>over in Syria.

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<v Speaker 6>Stay alive.

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<v Speaker 1>There's not much you can do about it.

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<v Speaker 3>That well, there's not much.

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<v Speaker 9>We can do about it, but I can certainly make

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<v Speaker 9>a lot of noise and we're very passionate out hearing

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<v Speaker 9>fairful in that community will not forgive and forget, and

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<v Speaker 9>we're telling Albo make sure you do the right thing.

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<v Speaker 9>Put the strange.

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<v Speaker 3>A few weeks after the repatriation there was this kind

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<v Speaker 3>of showdown at the Fairfield City Council offices where the

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<v Speaker 3>Minister for Home Affairs, Clara O'Neil, went to meet the mayors,

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<v Speaker 3>including Frank Cabon and the Mayor of Liverpool, ned Manoon.

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<v Speaker 3>The Home Affairs Minister is gearing up to meet with

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<v Speaker 3>Western Sydney mayors to discuss the repatriation of ISIS family

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<v Speaker 3>members in their communities. She brought along with her the

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<v Speaker 3>Deputy Director of ASIO, Chris Teele, and they sat down

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<v Speaker 3>in a room in the council offices and they went

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<v Speaker 3>through all the issues. It took weeks, if not months

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<v Speaker 3>to settle down, and I think by the end of

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<v Speaker 3>that Anthony Albernezi has decided, well, he just doesn't want

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<v Speaker 3>that issue back on the front page, especially as we're

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<v Speaker 3>in the lead up to an election. This is just

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<v Speaker 3>a problem that Anthony Alberanezi wants to go away. He

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<v Speaker 3>doesn't want it to be back in the news headlines,

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<v Speaker 3>distracting from all the other things he's doing to try

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<v Speaker 3>to secure his re election next year.

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<v Speaker 2>After the break what the experts say about whether these

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<v Speaker 2>families are really a risk to the community. So, Jason,

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<v Speaker 2>You've got these politicians in Western Sydney who are kicking

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<v Speaker 2>up a stink given these women and children have spent

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<v Speaker 2>so much time in countries and in camps where they're exposed.

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<v Speaker 1>To radical ideologies. Are those safety concerns?

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<v Speaker 3>Val I don't think the concerns are valid at all,

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<v Speaker 3>because of all of the people that have been repatriated

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<v Speaker 3>to their home countries over the last five to six years,

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<v Speaker 3>there hasn't been a single incident, a single security incident

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<v Speaker 3>involving any of those people. And of the seventeen that

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<v Speaker 3>were returned to Australia back in twenty twenty two, they've

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<v Speaker 3>all just integrated very, very smoothly and peacefully back into

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<v Speaker 3>life in Australia. They've all got families here in Australia,

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<v Speaker 3>extended families, and those families have been very keen to

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<v Speaker 3>help them settle back into life in Australia. They've all

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<v Speaker 3>cooperated with the Australian authorities, and we've seen that not

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<v Speaker 3>just here in Australia, but in every other country that

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<v Speaker 3>has repatriated citizens from the camps in Syria. So I

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<v Speaker 3>think what we're seeing from people who are voicing these

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<v Speaker 3>objections perhaps getting in the way of any further repatriations,

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<v Speaker 3>is just classical expediency. As Dennis Richardson, the former Director

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<v Speaker 3>General of ASIO and former Ambassador to the United States,

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<v Speaker 3>has said very clearly at the time, and he reiterated

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<v Speaker 3>those comments this week.

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<v Speaker 6>Well, look, I don't want to get involved in party

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<v Speaker 6>politics of it.

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<v Speaker 3>The idea that Australian authorities can't monitor these people once

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<v Speaker 3>they're home and ensure that they're not going to get

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<v Speaker 3>involved in any kind of extremist activity is just nonsense.

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<v Speaker 6>I would simply note that the United States, Canada, the

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<v Speaker 6>UK and a range of other countries have founded within

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<v Speaker 6>their wit to take similar people back to their own countries,

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<v Speaker 6>and if they can do it, it's simply a nonsense

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<v Speaker 6>to suggest that we can't.

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<v Speaker 3>It's very much in Denis Richardson's view and certainly the

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<v Speaker 3>view of the AFP and other agencies, that they can

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<v Speaker 3>manage any security concern surrounding these people.

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<v Speaker 2>So Jason, if we have people like Dennis Richardson saying

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<v Speaker 2>these people under security threat, then what exactly is the

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<v Speaker 2>government's position here?

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<v Speaker 1>What have they been saying to you.

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<v Speaker 3>The people that I've been speaking to this week in

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<v Speaker 3>the government have told me that while no formal decision

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<v Speaker 3>has been made not to bring the Australian citizens back home,

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<v Speaker 3>the government is not going to do anything to actually

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<v Speaker 3>bring them back home. Between now and the election. That

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<v Speaker 3>Prime Minister Anthony Alberinezi has effectively shelved this decision for

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<v Speaker 3>the foreseeable future. That it's highly unlikely to be revisited

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<v Speaker 3>until after the election, which we're expecting around March April

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<v Speaker 3>May next year. I guess the only thing that could

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<v Speaker 3>possibly change that is if there was a very serious

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<v Speaker 3>deterioration in the security situation surrounding the two camps where

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<v Speaker 3>those citizens are located. I think if there was a

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<v Speaker 3>very serious threat to life, then the government might be

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<v Speaker 3>moved to act a bit so, but it seems highly

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<v Speaker 3>unlikely at this stage that anything will happen until next year.

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<v Speaker 2>So, given other countries are repatriating their citizens, I imagine

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<v Speaker 2>that the group that is responsible for these camps, the

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<v Speaker 2>Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria, I imagine they're

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<v Speaker 2>not too chuffter the Australian governments not taking back our citizens.

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<v Speaker 2>What sort of pressure is there on the Australian government

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<v Speaker 2>to bring them home now?

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<v Speaker 3>Well, I think it's fair to say that they are

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<v Speaker 3>pleading with the Australian government to repatriate their citizens. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>they're saying that these cabs are a major burden for them.

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<v Speaker 3>They're massive security risks for northern Syria. They want to

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<v Speaker 3>do everything they can to reduce the number of people there,

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<v Speaker 3>the burden that they are carrying. It is possible that

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<v Speaker 3>the Federal Court will overturn the first decision which dismissed

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<v Speaker 3>the application for the rid of habeas corpus, but I

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<v Speaker 3>think that's probably unlike even if the court ruled in

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<v Speaker 3>favor of save the children application, I think the Commonwealth

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<v Speaker 3>would probably then appeal that decision to the High Court.

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<v Speaker 3>We'd see probably more legal argument. I think we just

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<v Speaker 3>have to wait until the political circumstances are right, that

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<v Speaker 3>the government feels that they can repatriate the citizens who

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<v Speaker 3>are mating over there without incurring a significant political cost.

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<v Speaker 3>It's one of those classic political scenarios where the interests

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<v Speaker 3>of voters at home trump the interests of those who

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<v Speaker 3>are stranded overseas.

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks so much for your time, Jason.

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<v Speaker 3>Thanks Ashland, it's great to talk to you.

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<v Speaker 2>Also in the news today, the president and Foreign Minister

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<v Speaker 2>of Iran have being killed in a helicopter crash, according

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<v Speaker 2>to Iranian media reports. The Constitution of the Islamic Republic

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<v Speaker 2>states an election for a new president must be held

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<v Speaker 2>within fifty days, which comes as voter turn out in

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<v Speaker 2>Iran reached historic lows during recent parliamentary elections, and the

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<v Speaker 2>Australian Electoral Commission has conceded that AI deep fakes are

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<v Speaker 2>likely to be used in the upcoming election and that

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<v Speaker 2>it's limited in its.

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<v Speaker 1>Ability to stop it.

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<v Speaker 2>The AEC's commissioner, Tom Rogers says robo calls using deep

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<v Speaker 2>fakes could in some cases be perfectly legal, adding that

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<v Speaker 2>his organizations.

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<v Speaker 1>Quote electoral toolkit.

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<v Speaker 2>Is very constrained with what we can deal with and

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<v Speaker 2>not deal with. I'm Ashelin McGee. This is seven am.

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks for listening. We'll see you again tomorrow