Speaker 1: Oh, get a your bloody winners the taps. Who else
Speaker 1: would it be? It's the You project, it's us, it's you,
Speaker 1: it's me, and it's a blow called Scotty. We'll get
Speaker 1: to him in a moment. Hope you're terrific everyone. I
Speaker 1: hope you're having a good week or weekend whenever you're
Speaker 1: listening to this. Don't forget. Don't forget. We've got a
Speaker 1: Facebook group which is a little bit of a getting
Speaker 1: together kind of online spot for people who follow the show,
Speaker 1: love the show, So a bit of a safe space
Speaker 1: where you can go and interact with like minded people
Speaker 1: who kind of want to be part of a community
Speaker 1: that's more towards a positive end.
Speaker 2: Of the scale. Online there's a fucking novel idea, isn't it?
Speaker 1: So you can support and encourage other people, share an idea,
Speaker 1: a book that you've read, a thought that you've had,
Speaker 1: hang out with people.
Speaker 2: That's the reason that I do it.
Speaker 1: There's no kind of agenda, there's no hooks or catches,
Speaker 1: there's no on sell, upsell, none of that shit. We
Speaker 1: just post the episodes as they come up, and you
Speaker 1: might want to riff or talk about that or ask
Speaker 1: a question but anyway, that's our little online community, so
Speaker 1: feel free to jump on there. Scottie Douglas making with
Speaker 1: you fucking Is this your overall podcast debut?
Speaker 3: Yes it is. Yes.
Speaker 2: Now now you.
Speaker 1: I've seen you freestyle, Lucy Goosey, you're just a little
Speaker 1: bit up tight. I want you to take a few breaths, right,
Speaker 1: few breaths you did share with me. I'm going to
Speaker 1: throw you under the bus to our listeners straight away. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you went for a swim before because that kind of
Speaker 1: chilled you out and just that gets your zen on.
Speaker 1: But you were telling me about three minutes ago your
Speaker 1: heart rate right now is a one hundred and twelve.
Speaker 1: What is it right now? You have a check right now? One?
Speaker 2: Ah. That's hilarious.
Speaker 1: Well mate, you're not the first one. You're not the
Speaker 1: first one to be nervous on a show. But I
Speaker 1: appreciate you coming on for having a chat. And look, everyone,
Speaker 1: I don't say this lightly, but I've met I've met
Speaker 1: a lot of people. Of course, I've had hundreds of
Speaker 1: people work for me. I've trained tens of thousands of humans.
Speaker 1: I've lectured too. I don't know how many online millions
Speaker 1: around the world, hundreds of thousands, tens of thousands, probably hundreds.
Speaker 1: And this guy is an interesting guy. And I don't
Speaker 1: want to put too much pressure on you, but sometimes
Speaker 1: I meet people that I like and I resonate with
Speaker 1: and we're like a little bit of a you know,
Speaker 1: we're nothing alike, but we're everything alike, a bit a
Speaker 1: bit out of the box. And Scott is probably a
Speaker 1: nicer human than me, So there's that.
Speaker 2: It's mate.
Speaker 1: I enjoyed catching up with you yesterday. We we're recording
Speaker 1: this Saturday. Okay, how my eyes going one? Eight pm
Speaker 1: Saturday in Melbs and we caught up yesterday for a coffee.
Speaker 2: Yes, thanks for the coffee, Thanks for the chat. It
Speaker 2: was fun.
Speaker 3: It was lovely. Thank you very much for inviting me early.
Speaker 3: But I get up early like you do, so it
Speaker 3: was cole. That was only downside to yesterday. It was
Speaker 3: a bit cold getting in the car car was a
Speaker 3: block of ice. I live up in the mountain, so
Speaker 3: I had to run the car for a little while
Speaker 3: to get it warm and then listen to a podcast
Speaker 3: on the way to see you. So it was good.
Speaker 1: And you know what I love is you said like
Speaker 1: we were going to catch up, and yesterday was a
Speaker 1: catch up day, and I think you sent me a
Speaker 1: message of the day before and said, maybe you're still
Speaker 1: good for tomorrow, and I went, because you know, I
Speaker 1: got the fucking memory of a wombat, and I went, well,
Speaker 1: I knew that we were catching up. But then I
Speaker 1: sent you a message did we make a time because
Speaker 1: it wasn't in my diary?
Speaker 2: And You're like, no, we didn't.
Speaker 1: And then so I said to you, graciously, can we
Speaker 1: do seven hundred because that suits me?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 1: And then you, without even batting an eyelid, went sure,
Speaker 1: not me, not realizing that you live in fucking upper
Speaker 1: come back the west and it took you an hour
Speaker 1: and a half and you got up at stupid o'clock
Speaker 1: to have some caffeine with me. But thanks for making
Speaker 1: the epic journey.
Speaker 3: It was lovely. I like to get up earlier, and
Speaker 3: I like to drive, and you know, I drive from
Speaker 3: where I live on a regular basis down to the
Speaker 3: ocean to swim. So being up that early, I think,
Speaker 3: is like it's a privilege. It's like a special club.
Speaker 3: Not everyone gets up there early, and you get to
Speaker 3: watch the day start and the only other people are
Speaker 3: up that early are mad like yourself, They're going to
Speaker 3: work or they've finished work. So I think it's a
Speaker 3: nice time. I like that time of the morning.
Speaker 1: How long you been doing this swimming in the ocean
Speaker 1: early in the day thing.
Speaker 3: I've always been an open water swimmer. But when I
Speaker 3: was diagnosed with cancer, it was in the middle of
Speaker 3: COVID and obviously we'll talk about that later. But I
Speaker 3: wanted to get in the water, like I wanted to
Speaker 3: put myself in cold water every day. So I live
Speaker 3: in Mount Macedon and it's about an hour to the
Speaker 3: nearest beach, which is Williams Sound, So I would get
Speaker 3: up at four o'clock in the morning, drive to wim
Speaker 3: Sound Beach pretty much every day for two or three
Speaker 3: years and get in the water.
Speaker 2: That's crazy, that's crazy, but that is also commitment.
Speaker 1: Did you have some I mean going to dive into
Speaker 1: everything so there's no hurry, but I mean I probably
Speaker 1: should say upfront that you're a paramedic among other things.
Speaker 1: But you've got significant obviously medical medical training and medical knowledge.
Speaker 1: And when you got diagnosed, did you have a apart
Speaker 1: from all the treatment or the medical, clinical or the
Speaker 1: logical kind of did you have in the back of
Speaker 1: your mind that you were going to open any other doors,
Speaker 1: any alternate doors, any kind of Yeah.
Speaker 2: So what, that's absolutely what did What did that look like? Okay?
Speaker 3: So at My older brother had similar cancer to myself,
Speaker 3: and when I had cancer, both my parents and my
Speaker 3: auntie were being treated. A very very good friend of
Speaker 3: mine has had some pretty good success. He's a natural
Speaker 3: path he's got his own practice, and I had a
Speaker 3: like I got told Tuesday, the twentieth of January twenty
Speaker 3: twenty at five o'clock. I was on the phone to
Speaker 3: him at seven o'clock talking to him about some things
Speaker 3: I could do. So I did. I was a vegan
Speaker 3: for twelve weeks, which is really really hard because I
Speaker 3: love meat, but I wanted to give my body the
Speaker 3: best chance possible. I did lots of meditation. I've always
Speaker 3: been a bit of a I've always liked meditating, but
Speaker 3: I did lots more of it. I did yoga. I've
Speaker 3: always done yogat I just literally did lots more of it.
Speaker 3: And I just tried to remove lots of things out
Speaker 3: of my life that were not kind to me. So
Speaker 3: I'd stop drinking coffee, which was crazy because I love coffee.
Speaker 3: I didn't touch alcohol, and I started getting in the
Speaker 3: water every single day for multiple reasons, Like I was
Speaker 3: still training, like I was still doing CrossFit, I was
Speaker 3: still swimming a lot, so I was quite sore and
Speaker 3: along with some of the more what people would perceive
Speaker 3: to be traditional treatment that I was receiving, like it
Speaker 3: had lots of side effects. So I was quite sick
Speaker 3: a lot, and I lost, unfortunately lost. I lost twenty
Speaker 3: six kilos along the way, and I've never had a
Speaker 3: lot of weight to lose. And that was my skinny
Speaker 3: Scott stage. There's a couple of photos of me, which
Speaker 3: now upon reflection, are quite funny because people go like,
Speaker 3: who's that, and you go, well, that's me, that's do
Speaker 3: my Kate Moss, cocaine and cigarette stage. So your question was,
Speaker 3: you know, was I willing to open the door. I
Speaker 3: certainly wanted to live and I certainly want to try
Speaker 3: as many things as possible. And I read a lot
Speaker 3: and listened to podcasts and met people who were on
Speaker 3: a similar journey to myself.
Speaker 1: What do you I mean this is a door I
Speaker 1: open a lot, but the you know, the mind, body emotion,
Speaker 1: like the impact of who you hang around your environment,
Speaker 1: being in nature, you know the quality of your thoughts,
Speaker 1: like trying to manage your fucking mind, because you know
Speaker 1: that being scared and anxious and producing adrenaline and cortisolan
Speaker 1: getting trapped in that fucking well. You know that that's
Speaker 1: the antithesis of what you want. But at the same time,
Speaker 1: if you've ever got a reason to panic and be stressed,
Speaker 1: that seems.
Speaker 2: Like a good reason.
Speaker 1: How long did it take before you could kind of
Speaker 1: find that calm.
Speaker 3: One of the things I love about your listening to
Speaker 3: your podcast is I think your questions are really well
Speaker 3: thought out, and it's it's lovely when you ask people
Speaker 3: really good questions because then you go, oh, wow, that's
Speaker 3: such a you know me, I look at it and go, well,
Speaker 3: it's such a clever thing to ask. And this this
Speaker 3: question is is brilliant because I at one stage was
Speaker 3: obviously you know, having chemo. When you've been a room
Speaker 3: with a bunch of people having chema, right, some of
Speaker 3: those people would take their their chemo medication on their
Speaker 3: IV pole outside and smoke cigarettes And I said, yeah,
Speaker 3: which for me, like it was just like I really
Speaker 3: really troubled me. And sometimes I would try to talk
Speaker 3: to the people that because you're in these big couches
Speaker 3: and you know it's not going on, and I would
Speaker 3: try to engage with them and have a bit of
Speaker 3: a chat with them about what they were doing, to
Speaker 3: see if there was anything that I could do. And
Speaker 3: it sounds crazy, and there's probably people who have been
Speaker 3: a similar situation to myself, but there were people it
Speaker 3: was almost like a pissing contest. Like I would say, hey,
Speaker 3: you going you know, my name's Scott. What are you
Speaker 3: in here for? Which is a little bit of a joke.
Speaker 4: And people say to me, oh, mate, I've got stage
Speaker 4: four fucking mustasousies on my lungs, I've got a brain tumor,
Speaker 4: and fuck, may you know?
Speaker 3: And they really had already given in, and there was
Speaker 3: they were sort of almost bragging about how serious their
Speaker 3: illness was. And these are the similar people that would
Speaker 3: then go and smoke cigarettes or consume alcohol or not,
Speaker 3: in my opinion, really help themselves. And so I wanted
Speaker 3: to remove myself from that. So I started having my
Speaker 3: chema orally because I didn't want to be in that
Speaker 3: situation anymore. And I didn't tell like I told no
Speaker 3: one I was sick for almost nine months because I
Speaker 3: didn't want sympathy. I didn't want people to treat me different.
Speaker 3: I wanted to go to work. I wanted to work
Speaker 3: as hard as I could. I was still doing night shifts.
Speaker 3: I mean, I legitimately was sometimes ironically going to people
Speaker 3: who were not as sick as me. And when some
Speaker 3: of my colleagues found out, that was like a running
Speaker 3: gag with us, Like we would go to see someone
Speaker 3: and they would say, but this dude's not sick as you, Scottie,
Speaker 3: and I'd be like, Nah, they're probably not. But I
Speaker 3: tried to surround myself with lots and lots of positivity,
Speaker 3: Like I would go and have dinner with people. We
Speaker 3: would talk about everything other than being sick. Like I
Speaker 3: would go to people's houses and cook for them because
Speaker 3: I love cooking and it's a thing that I do
Speaker 3: that makes me feel good about who I am and
Speaker 3: it's a gift to someone. So I purposely set out
Speaker 3: I would go to people's houses and make them exceptionally
Speaker 3: nice food. I wouldn't be able to eat a lot
Speaker 3: of it some of the time, but I would go
Speaker 3: and see music. I made sure I spent as much
Speaker 3: time as possible with my daughter, with my brother, and
Speaker 3: you know, especially my brother, who was incredibly supportive during
Speaker 3: that time. We would walk the dogs, you know, I
Speaker 3: would ride my motorbike when I could. I would try
Speaker 3: and do everything. Myunitude was, this is a marathon, and
Speaker 3: I've ran marathon. So let's not sprint at the start.
Speaker 3: Let's just get into a groove and we'll reflect on
Speaker 3: this until three years time. We'll look back on this
Speaker 3: process and say, yes, I went through that, and now
Speaker 3: I can tell you a story about it.
Speaker 1: And I want to talk for a little bit about fear.
Speaker 1: And fear is such an interesting part of the human
Speaker 1: experience because you know, it's like it's like, well, one,
Speaker 1: we need fear because there are times where it keeps
Speaker 1: us safe, but then there's other times.
Speaker 2: Where it keeps us trapped. Right.
Speaker 1: It's kind of this dichotomy of sometimes fear is a
Speaker 1: really valuable kind of part of the human experience or
Speaker 1: emotion in the moment, depending on what we're talking about,
Speaker 1: and other times, you know, it keeps us trapped in
Speaker 1: the psychological emotional behavioral prison of shit. What about for
Speaker 1: you did you did? What role did fear play? How
Speaker 1: scared were you? What did you do with that? Is
Speaker 1: it about being courageous? Is it about being a little
Speaker 1: bit delusional? Or is it about going you know, like
Speaker 1: I all I can control is what I do, So
Speaker 1: I'm going to do my best to focus there.
Speaker 3: Yes, I mean I think you know, fear and courage.
Speaker 3: Courage is such an interesting thing, you know. Courage is
Speaker 3: knowing the thing you're going to do is going to hurt,
Speaker 3: but doing it anyway. Yeah, you know, and stupid. It
Speaker 3: is the same thing. That's my life, right, So that's interesting. Yeah.
Speaker 3: So I did go through a period where I thought
Speaker 3: what would happen if I if I died? And it
Speaker 3: was more about what would happen with my daughter? What
Speaker 3: would happen with my brother?
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: And I was quite pragmatic about it. You know, we
Speaker 3: put some things in place, literally sat down wrote the
Speaker 3: whill change things with my house so my daughter gets
Speaker 3: it when she turns twenty five, Like, we set up
Speaker 3: like an investment account for her. And once the pragmatic
Speaker 3: stuff was done, and I and I was, you know,
Speaker 3: I probably was more let's say nine months in it,
Speaker 3: I was getting better. I was starting to put on
Speaker 3: weights and stuff. I was no longer afraid. But I've
Speaker 3: never really been that scared of They think I'm scared
Speaker 3: of is failing, you know, And that's been instilled in
Speaker 3: me since it's a small child by my parents, you know,
Speaker 3: like I don't like to fail. So the irony was
Speaker 3: for me, Like obviously if I had died because of cancer,
Speaker 3: then I would have failed to fix it. So my
Speaker 3: attitude was, what, we will just keep going. We'll just
Speaker 3: keep hitting this thing with a big hammer until I
Speaker 3: don't have to do that anymore. But once I wasn't frightened,
Speaker 3: I was free. So then I continue to go to
Speaker 3: work and I continued to teach, and I started making plans, like,
Speaker 3: you know, I wrote a book, Well then that that
Speaker 3: has to be released and you have to promote it
Speaker 3: and all that kind of stuff. So my attitude was,
Speaker 3: I think I'm going to be okay now, so let's
Speaker 3: get on with living.
Speaker 1: And you said that one of the byproducts of your
Speaker 1: childhood was that you were scared of failure.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've like my Unfortunately, my parents went that kind
Speaker 3: to me when I was young, Like I had quite
Speaker 3: a violence upbringing, and you know, my dad was a
Speaker 3: very tall big man, and he'd been in the military,
Speaker 3: you know, he'd been in He flew choppers in nine
Speaker 3: Squadron in Vietnam. He'd done two tours. Our very early
Speaker 3: life was on Air Force bases, and he ran the
Speaker 3: house like that, which I think, while we get up
Speaker 3: early and while I can polish shoes and iron a shirt,
Speaker 3: but also he instilled in us this insane work ethic,
Speaker 3: like if you weren't working, you were being lazy. So
Speaker 3: I and then unfortunately for me or you know, some
Speaker 3: people say it's fortunate, but like, I can't stop, and
Speaker 3: I have. I've had these conversations with very close people
Speaker 3: for me and say, oh, you know, you could always
Speaker 3: stop and do what you like, Like why would I stop?
Speaker 3: I like, I like this pace?
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, are you? Are you obsessive?
Speaker 3: It all depends. And then I think the word obsessive
Speaker 3: is quite interesting because I think if you pour energy
Speaker 3: into anything, like if you wanted to learn to play guitar,
Speaker 3: and you every day got up and played it for
Speaker 3: ten minutes, after six months, you'd be quite proficient at it.
Speaker 3: If you continue to do that after a couple years,
Speaker 3: you'd be amazing at it. And no one would say
Speaker 3: to you, Oh, that's a bit obsessive. People would be
Speaker 3: impressed with that. If you do the same thing with
Speaker 3: start or something else, it's not deemed as to be
Speaker 3: as special. So I have. When I wanted to become
Speaker 3: a paramedic, I was obsessed with it, and I just
Speaker 3: studied because I had to learn to read. I learn
Speaker 3: to do all this stuff, and someone was quite challenging.
Speaker 3: So I was obsessed about it. And when I when
Speaker 3: I qualified as a paramic, I want to be the
Speaker 3: best paramedic I could be. So I continue to study,
Speaker 3: and I continue to seek out training, and I traveled
Speaker 3: to spend time in other places and work as a
Speaker 3: paramedic in other places to hone my craft the same
Speaker 3: as I did when I was a chef. I you know,
Speaker 3: I didn't see it any differently.
Speaker 2: What do you mean you had to learn to read well?
Speaker 3: So yeah, I forgot okay, So when I was like,
Speaker 3: I only had a year ten pass which and then
Speaker 3: when I went to UNI, I really couldn't read well
Speaker 3: and I can't write. I can't spell, like that's my
Speaker 3: writing is atrocious because I can't spell. So I'm nervous
Speaker 3: about spelling the word wrong. So I just squiggle it
Speaker 3: like a doctor. But my first year at UNI, all
Speaker 3: my every single thing I did or my assignments were
Speaker 3: written on pen and paper because I couldn't use a
Speaker 3: keyboard and so and then I would submit them like
Speaker 3: literally stacks of paper. And after a couple of months
Speaker 3: they said, I got you know, the spelling's atrocious. So
Speaker 3: I had to learn to spell. And I hired a pa,
Speaker 3: a lady who sat me down and showed me how
Speaker 3: to write properly and how to spell and how to.
Speaker 3: And then after a first year I'd done really well
Speaker 3: and they said, you can't do this anymore. You have
Speaker 3: to do it like everybody else, and you have to
Speaker 3: submit it and put it through, turn it in and
Speaker 3: do it on a computer. So I had to spend
Speaker 3: I spent three months with a year ten tutor teaching
Speaker 3: me how to use a computer and how to you know,
Speaker 3: how to reference, how to I when I was shown
Speaker 3: paste and copy, oh my god, like I thought that
Speaker 3: was magic, Like I thaid, oh my god, what is
Speaker 3: this you know? So for me? So that was that
Speaker 3: was in my second year. I had to do it
Speaker 3: like everybody else.
Speaker 1: And Mate, I love that story and like the reason
Speaker 1: that I don't know if that's comfortable or uncomfortable for you,
Speaker 1: but I don't care if it's uncomfortable to you.
Speaker 2: For you, I'm going to be honest, fucker.
Speaker 1: But what I love is that here's this guy who
Speaker 1: you've been a chef, you've done all these other things.
Speaker 1: Will maybe talk about chefing in a minute. But so
Speaker 1: how old were you when you started university for the
Speaker 1: first time?
Speaker 3: Thirty two?
Speaker 2: Okay, So you're going to YUNI.
Speaker 1: Everyone else's working on a computer and researching on a
Speaker 1: computer and submitting all their shit and they know how to,
Speaker 1: you know, cut and paste and do emails, and you're
Speaker 1: back there in the back room with butcher paper and
Speaker 1: a crayon.
Speaker 3: Yeah right?
Speaker 2: How good is that?
Speaker 1: Though?
Speaker 3: That?
Speaker 2: Like you were a guy.
Speaker 1: Who was not at all and I don't mean intelligent,
Speaker 1: you're clearly intelligent, but you weren't academ in that sense, right, yes,
Speaker 1: And then you became an academic and now now you
Speaker 1: teach in university.
Speaker 2: Right yeah?
Speaker 3: I find that. I still that's still it wouldn't matter,
Speaker 3: Like you know, next week, I find myself parked in
Speaker 3: a university car park, go and I can't believe I
Speaker 3: am teaching, like I still still to this day, even
Speaker 3: though I'm doing my master's, I can't believe I teach.
Speaker 3: And that is interesting, Like, and I have a very
Speaker 3: special place in my heart for older students who are
Speaker 3: having a crack. Like we had a student eighteen months
Speaker 3: ago who was in his late forties. He's now a
Speaker 3: qualified paramedic in his early fifties, and he's you know,
Speaker 3: if he's listening to this, he knows who he is.
Speaker 3: He's an exceptional human. He's got kids, a wife who
Speaker 3: obviously was clearly massively supportive of him doing that. But yeah,
Speaker 3: I when I you know, at the first week of
Speaker 3: first year, looking to a sea of one hundred and
Speaker 3: twenty kids, and there will be people in there that
Speaker 3: will be you go, oh my god, I reckon they
Speaker 3: are a mid thirties. I reckon that person's late forties.
Speaker 3: And you have a good chat with them about what
Speaker 3: they're doing and their journey and the travel they had
Speaker 3: to go through to get to where they are. And
Speaker 3: it's for me, it's I tell all. I said to them, Well,
Speaker 3: I started when I was thirty three and I had
Speaker 3: no idea what I was doing. So I think you're
Speaker 3: going to be fine.
Speaker 1: It's what's interesting about I mean, obviously I'm not a paramedic,
Speaker 1: but I don't so I don't understand. But for me
Speaker 1: as an observer of you, and we've met a couple
Speaker 1: of times, spoken a bit, and like the thing that
Speaker 1: comes across to me is without pissing in your pocket,
Speaker 1: like your emotional awareness, your emotional intelligence, your social intelligence,
Speaker 1: your ability to be able to just be sit across
Speaker 1: the table from me and have a meaningful conversation. No
Speaker 1: when to talk, no when to shut up, know what
Speaker 1: to ask, no, what not to like you can't learn
Speaker 1: that in a degree, right, And so on the one hand,
Speaker 1: you've got to go and do this academic process which
Speaker 1: involves all those academic skills and intellect obviously, and of
Speaker 1: course we need that. Of course you need the clinical
Speaker 1: and the medical knowledge and the skills, and of course.
Speaker 2: You need all of that.
Speaker 1: But then I'm guessing what makes someone a great paramedic
Speaker 1: because not what they scored on their exams, No.
Speaker 3: And it's your insights are always really clever, like on
Speaker 3: a regular basis, used to do career days. So I
Speaker 3: would be up at ACU, you know, the university up there,
Speaker 3: they do the double degree, and you'd be in a
Speaker 3: room and a lovely set of parents would come up
Speaker 3: to you and say, do you know, do you think
Speaker 3: my son or daughter should do the double degree or
Speaker 3: or just the paramedic degree, And I'll say which one
Speaker 3: is your son and daughter? I have a chat with them,
Speaker 3: and then I would offer them a bit of advice.
Speaker 3: And having had the privilege of teaching different universities, but
Speaker 3: the kids, the kids that get come out of a
Speaker 3: university are far better students than say B university, right,
Speaker 3: But the end of the day, they've both got the
Speaker 3: same ticket to the interview. So I've taught kids who
Speaker 3: are clinically brilliant like they are and will go on
Speaker 3: to do exceptionally well in whatever field they choose, and
Speaker 3: they are a pleasure to teach. I've also taught kids
Speaker 3: that are just getting by, maybe on the weekends, they
Speaker 3: work as a tiler, they've got two kids, you know,
Speaker 3: a partner, or they don't have a partner, they live
Speaker 3: in a caravan, and they get for one of a
Speaker 3: better word, shit marks, right, But you know they're going
Speaker 3: to be an exceptional paramedic and they then go on
Speaker 3: to B one and so you see them two or
Speaker 3: three years after you've finished teaching them, and they are
Speaker 3: loving what they do, what they are doing, and they're
Speaker 3: exceptionally good at what they do. And you think to yourself, well,
Speaker 3: I am a very small part of that. I'm very
Speaker 3: small cog in a big machine. But I had faith
Speaker 3: in the process, and that person is now doing the
Speaker 3: thing that they absolutely want to do, and the society
Speaker 3: benefits because they are exceptionally good at it.
Speaker 1: When you were grown up, what did you think he
Speaker 1: wanted to do? Did you have any clarity? Did you
Speaker 1: have a vague idea? Did your old man push you
Speaker 1: in a direction like what was going on when you
Speaker 1: were a kid?
Speaker 3: So I wanted to be a paramedic from a very
Speaker 3: young age, but I never thought I was smart enough,
Speaker 3: and so my little brother and hopefully they came to
Speaker 3: me talking about this. Was born with a rare genetic
Speaker 3: disorder called tubluscrosis, so he used to have multiple seizes
Speaker 3: every single day. He would have been a prime candidate for, say,
Speaker 3: medical marijuana. So we lived in rural Victoria, and you know,
Speaker 3: he would have four or five Seagess, it didn't matter
Speaker 3: where we went. We went to the pub for dinner.
Speaker 3: He would have seizures and the ambulance always came. They
Speaker 3: were always blokes, They was war shorts, and I was
Speaker 3: always like, you're always a part of it. So he
Speaker 3: would have been five or six. I would have been
Speaker 3: twelve maybe, And so I really like them as people,
Speaker 3: I thought, And you know, my mother especially was on
Speaker 3: a first name basis with a lot of them, and
Speaker 3: they would talk her through what was going to happen.
Speaker 3: And because me and my youngest brother are so close,
Speaker 3: I got dragged along a lot and we ended up
Speaker 3: like like he lived in the Royal Children's Hospital for
Speaker 3: a year and I missed a whole year of school
Speaker 3: because I would go and hang out with him, which
Speaker 3: is why I inavertently couldn't spell, or couldn't do short division,
Speaker 3: or couldn't write because I missed so much school. But
Speaker 3: I always wanted to be a param me and I
Speaker 3: didn't think I was clever enough. And then I met
Speaker 3: some very lovely paramedics who I'd ended up doing some
Speaker 3: work for them and spending time with them socially, and
Speaker 3: they encouraged me and helped me understand that I could
Speaker 3: get into university and assisted me getting into university, and
Speaker 3: I've always felt exceptionally privileged, and I hope that, you know,
Speaker 3: the last twenty years has paid them back for their
Speaker 3: for the enthusiasm for helping me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, isn't it interesting when you meet someone who does
Speaker 1: a job, you know, and it could have been I mean,
Speaker 1: could have been a truck driver, it could have been
Speaker 1: a neurosurgeon, whatever, it could have been a school teacher,
Speaker 1: it could have been. But when you meet one or
Speaker 1: two or three people who do a certain job and
Speaker 1: they're cool and they just good humans and they're doing
Speaker 1: that shit and it looks like this job looks great
Speaker 1: and they love their job, and they look like they're
Speaker 1: having fun and they're cool people, and it's like what
Speaker 1: you really want is, yeah, you want the job, but
Speaker 1: you kind of want to be one of them.
Speaker 2: You kind of want to be like them, right.
Speaker 3: I totally agree with that because and you've had Darren
Speaker 3: Hodge on your podcast, and I got to meet Hodgy
Speaker 3: and it did something very special for him. I assisted
Speaker 3: him and his friends with a fundraiser. Sadly to Paramas
Speaker 3: have been killed and they had come to my cafe
Speaker 3: to ask from my assistance with raising money, and I
Speaker 3: ended up helping them a great deal because I wanted to.
Speaker 3: I thought it was a genuine thing to do, and
Speaker 3: we donated all our time and everything, and then I
Speaker 3: got to hang out with them socially and I said
Speaker 3: to them, I said, it's going to sound crazy. I'd
Speaker 3: probably known them about two years, but I want to
Speaker 3: be a paramedic. And they were like, oh my god,
Speaker 3: it's got Why do you want to do that? We
Speaker 3: love coming to your cafe, like you seem to have
Speaker 3: so much fun there. I said, I wanted to do
Speaker 3: it since I was a kid. And like I said,
Speaker 3: they were incredibly gracious with their time, and they wrote
Speaker 3: me a reference and organized for me to have an
Speaker 3: appointment with the Dina Schools at Victoria University. And I
Speaker 3: didn't know who that. I didn't even know what a
Speaker 3: Dina school. I had no idea mate, so and they
Speaker 3: said to me, take this letter and make the guy cake.
Speaker 3: So I made a cake. And it was at twenty
Speaker 3: to twelve on a Tuesday in about two thousand and three,
Speaker 3: I think, and I knocked on the door. The gentleman
Speaker 3: said come in, and he said, oh, you're you're Baron's friend.
Speaker 3: I said yes, and he was exceptional, lovely man, asked
Speaker 3: me lots of good questions, like what do you intend
Speaker 3: to do with your business, and explained how it would work.
Speaker 3: You're married, how does that work? You know? And he
Speaker 3: literally said to me, he said, what's in the box?
Speaker 3: I said, Oh, they told me to make you a cake?
Speaker 3: And he laughed. I'd made it an exceptionally nice chocolate
Speaker 3: cake and he opened the box. He said, oh, wow,
Speaker 3: you didn't have to. I said, oh, they told me to.
Speaker 3: And it was like a bit of a trick they'd
Speaker 3: played on me, and that that gentleman was Tony Walker. Wow.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And Tony Walker went on to be the CEO of
Speaker 3: Emuls Victoria and I didn't know, you know, how that
Speaker 3: would work, but he had a thing called the Dean's discretion,
Speaker 3: So he placed myself and nine other people in UNI.
Speaker 3: Like we got put into UNI the next year and
Speaker 3: we started, and I'm still very good friends with two
Speaker 3: of the people. I mean, I'm still pretty good mate
Speaker 3: with a lot of people I went to UNI with.
Speaker 3: But there's a couple of people that were in the
Speaker 3: same position as me, who'd come from diverse and adverse backgrounds,
Speaker 3: and he put us into UNI. And you know, I
Speaker 3: was sitting the guy I become very good friends with.
Speaker 3: I was sitting next to him. It was the fourth
Speaker 3: day and they were using they were talking Latin terms,
Speaker 3: and and we both looked at each other and said,
Speaker 3: I don't think this is I can do this.
Speaker 2: What the fuck have I done?
Speaker 3: Like pathophysiology? Yeah, it was very interesting and obviously quite challenging,
Speaker 3: but I obviously, you know, I must have done well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, my first day of UNI, I was thirty six.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 1: And it was two thousand, the year two thousand and
Speaker 1: I was sitting in a computer lab at ACU. I
Speaker 1: did my undergrade at ACU, my Bachelor of XI Science.
Speaker 1: I may as well have been sitting on mars, right,
Speaker 1: And I didn't know. I'm with you, like I didn't
Speaker 1: know if you had have said type type out the
Speaker 1: cat sat on the mat, that would have taken two
Speaker 1: minutes because I would have had to locate every key
Speaker 1: with my eyes.
Speaker 2: Right, yes, and yes, yes, So I'm plunked at a
Speaker 2: computer and.
Speaker 1: A guy says, the guy at the front says, all right,
Speaker 1: just log on using your student ID. And he might
Speaker 1: as well have said hana hana haa right, I'm like,
Speaker 1: I don't know what I don't know what the I
Speaker 1: don't know what that means. I'm thirty six and literally
Speaker 1: I can even tell you her name. Her name's Bianca Morasco.
Speaker 1: She was sitting next to me, seventeen years old, first
Speaker 1: year student, also late late birthday, and I said to Bianca,
Speaker 1: what does that mean? She goes type in so in that,
Speaker 1: you know, use your cursor, click on that thing.
Speaker 2: I'm like, what's a cursor? What's a Like I'm not even.
Speaker 1: Being funny right because he had to lean out, she
Speaker 1: had to lean over and do it for me, and
Speaker 1: like me looking at my lanyard which had my student
Speaker 1: ID with fucking thirty two numbers. Yes, that's where I
Speaker 1: started as well, and I was yeah both times I started,
Speaker 1: like with my PHDM with that, I yeah, straight away
Speaker 1: thought what have I done? Like this is just going
Speaker 1: to end up in humiliation and embarrassment because I don't,
Speaker 1: you know, it's like my egos like you don't need
Speaker 1: to be here.
Speaker 2: You're already going, Okay, what the fuck are you doing here?
Speaker 3: I certainly had moments like that because at the time
Speaker 3: I had three cafes in the catering company and I
Speaker 3: was very very well known in that area, and our
Speaker 3: cafe was very well known, and I did on a
Speaker 3: pretty regular basis. I think I'm just going to quit
Speaker 3: because I don't need this kind of shit in my life.
Speaker 3: Like I really did think that, And but I did
Speaker 3: have some distinct advantages, like being older was I believe
Speaker 3: it was an advantage. Like I like, I had a job.
Speaker 3: So many of my classmates who then become my friends,
Speaker 3: and you know, and then you know, ten years later,
Speaker 3: you're going to their weddings and you're holding their babies
Speaker 3: and all that kind of stuff, and then you're watching
Speaker 3: them go through pro senses that you had gone through already.
Speaker 3: You know, you'd already had a mortgage, You're already you
Speaker 3: know all this stuff. So you know, I would just
Speaker 3: bring food. So I would just bring food. Literally, I
Speaker 3: would work all weekend at the cafe and just bring
Speaker 3: food and on Monday, and so our study group just
Speaker 3: was like I some some beautiful people, Like I said,
Speaker 3: I can't episence enough, so good to me. And still
Speaker 3: my mates literally sat down and I'd say, have some
Speaker 3: las onnion and they'd say, sure, I will show you how
Speaker 3: to read a twelve at ECG, I would just feed
Speaker 3: them and I'd say, come to my house, come to
Speaker 3: my house, don't study at home, come to my house
Speaker 3: and I'll feed you. And they literally there's a couple
Speaker 3: of guys that stuck by me. And we then started
Speaker 3: on the road together. So this is beautiful photo of
Speaker 3: the four of us and everyone is still a paramedic.
Speaker 3: But we started on the road together, and we started
Speaker 3: at UNI together, and we're standing in the front of
Speaker 3: the house where we did all our study, which was
Speaker 3: my house because you know, no one had a house,
Speaker 3: and all we would do is is eat food and
Speaker 3: do scenarios and argue about a cute palm redeemer. Yeah
Speaker 3: for two years, you know, of course.
Speaker 1: But but isn't that That's the beauty of it, right,
Speaker 1: is just hanging out with people who are doing what
Speaker 1: you're doing, and probably people who at some bits of
Speaker 1: it are better than you, right, and some bits you're
Speaker 1: better than them.
Speaker 2: Right. You've got skills and knowledge and a.
Speaker 1: Kind of intelligence they don't or maybe to the same level.
Speaker 1: And then also vice versa. So between the fouria you
Speaker 1: kind of drag each other up.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, absolutely, Craigan. I couldn't emphasize that enough. Like
Speaker 3: you know, one of the guys, Daniel Ja, we used
Speaker 3: to call him the cardiologists because everything to do with
Speaker 3: the heart. He was just so amazing at it. So
Speaker 3: he become the cardiology guy. And then I had a
Speaker 3: very good scene sense, and I had very good control
Speaker 3: with my voice and how to command people and how
Speaker 3: to get them to do stuff. But that's because I
Speaker 3: just spent fifteen years in the kitchen. So when we
Speaker 3: would run scenarios, I would say, oh, you know, if
Speaker 3: you talk this, if you say that word, the people
Speaker 3: will be more inclined to do what you ask. And then,
Speaker 3: you know, one of the other guys was just amazing
Speaker 3: with pharmacology and even just explaining stuff like you know. So, yeah,
Speaker 3: we were very fortunately we had this great diverse group
Speaker 3: of people, all varying ages, like daniel j was nineteen,
Speaker 3: I was thirty two, you know, so and we spent
Speaker 3: quite an intense amount of time together because you're at
Speaker 3: school together and then literally after school you're studying together,
Speaker 3: and then you're you're fretting about each other as you
Speaker 3: go into an exam, and then you're asking how you went,
Speaker 3: and then after two years you're applying for jobs, and
Speaker 3: we're all sat by the phone waiting to get interviews
Speaker 3: with the ambulance Victoria, and then we waited to get
Speaker 3: our letters and then we you know, forty two of us,
Speaker 3: all who had spent you know, two years inn together,
Speaker 3: got picked up and all started on the same day
Speaker 3: and they all qualified together. So I honestly believe that
Speaker 3: that situation helped me incredibly because I always had someone
Speaker 3: to talk to.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, we.
Speaker 1: Romanticized is not the right word, but we we maybe
Speaker 1: like some jobs, like being an ambo such a cool job, paramedic.
Speaker 1: You know, it's like you're out, you're saving lives and
Speaker 1: it's like you're at the coal face of you know,
Speaker 1: when you're hacking. And all of that is true. But
Speaker 1: at the same time, a lot of that equals trauma.
Speaker 2: Yes, And so tell me about the you know, you
Speaker 2: don't need.
Speaker 1: Specific instances, but generalize, like because you're dealing like often
Speaker 1: under immense pressure in difficult situations, complicated situations with a
Speaker 1: broad range of variables, and there are only certain people
Speaker 1: who are good in that. You know, you might have
Speaker 1: the most brilliant person theoretically who's a fucking disaster actically like, I.
Speaker 3: Don't know if you. I think you probably have heard
Speaker 3: the term flow, Like I absolutely believe in flow. I
Speaker 3: believe when you and I've done that when I've been
Speaker 3: in the kitchen. I've done it when I race motorcycles,
Speaker 3: and I've had it when I've been working on an
Speaker 3: incredibly sick patient and things do seem to for me personally,
Speaker 3: and I've had this conversation. I've given this presentation lots
Speaker 3: of times about how things work for me in an
Speaker 3: intense or high ten post situation, things slow down. It
Speaker 3: sounds crazy, but that's how my brain works. I think
Speaker 3: it is a bit of a superpower. And I've talked
Speaker 3: to other people about it. So you know, in the
Speaker 3: middle of quite an intense situation, you have to think
Speaker 3: three or four steps ahead. So you go where they're
Speaker 3: going to park the fire truck, where they're going to
Speaker 3: land the helicopter. Who are we going to rendezvous with?
Speaker 3: Where are we going to do that? Will there be lighting,
Speaker 3: will be a good place to park, And you'll be
Speaker 3: doing that while you're doing a drug calculation and talking
Speaker 3: to your partner about Because I verbalize every single thing
Speaker 3: I do. I used to I used to do it
Speaker 3: same thing when I was cooking, because I would say, oh,
Speaker 3: we're going to go with this table, so I just
Speaker 3: change it to this. What's going to happen next, we'll
Speaker 3: canulate the patient and then we're going to do this.
Speaker 3: We'll put an airway in, we'll ventilate. While we're ventilating,
Speaker 3: you go and get the car. Blah blah blah blah blah.
Speaker 3: So there's certainly been situations where I'm in the middle
Speaker 3: of that, gone, I don't know how the fuck I
Speaker 3: got here. I'm just some dude from some kid from
Speaker 3: the bush mate who likes to drive fast. This is
Speaker 3: way too much for me. But then you start looking
Speaker 3: for an adult and you realize the adult. Then you go, oh,
Speaker 3: that's right, I'm the adult, and you realize everybody's looking
Speaker 3: at you. And that's the thing that we do discuss
Speaker 3: with our students. Like when you put on the uniform,
Speaker 3: which I believe is a privilege to wear, no one
Speaker 3: prepares you. We try to do it at school, but
Speaker 3: no one prepares you for the gravity of who you
Speaker 3: now are. And that can be something as simple as
Speaker 3: you're standing in line waiting you get a coffee. Yeah,
Speaker 3: it's and someone comes up to you to grab your
Speaker 3: hand and say, oh my god, I wanted to say
Speaker 3: thank you, and you say, oh, okay, I probably wasn't me.
Speaker 3: And they may tell you a little story and say, well,
Speaker 3: as a matter of fact, I know those people. I
Speaker 3: work very close to that branch that you're talking about,
Speaker 3: and I think I know who you're talking about. I
Speaker 3: will have a chat with them. I will tell them
Speaker 3: that you say thank you, and that people say, oh,
Speaker 3: you know, thank you so much for the work you do.
Speaker 3: And you know, people will offer to buy your coffee
Speaker 3: and I'm sorry, please, don't you know you don't have
Speaker 3: to do that, or people will literally move to the
Speaker 3: side so you can get to the front of your queue.
Speaker 3: That kind of stuff can be a bit much sometimes,
Speaker 3: Like so, you have to be very aware that once
Speaker 3: you put the uniform on that it comes with this
Speaker 3: very heavy level of responsible and behavior, like you can't
Speaker 3: doesn't matter how much you're aching for a beer, you
Speaker 3: can't go have one in uniform, even if you've finished,
Speaker 3: you know, just because of the public's perception of what you're doing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I completely get that.
Speaker 1: Just HARKing back momentarily to your comment about flow one,
Speaker 1: moment wheregular civilian like me would you would never think
Speaker 1: you'd be in flow is when your training partner dies
Speaker 1: right in the gym and I remember like this, like almost, ah,
Speaker 1: what's the word like illogical calm?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 1: Why am I not freaking out? And why am I
Speaker 1: just you know? And I don't know maybe that's not
Speaker 1: by the way, I'm not taking any credit for that anyone.
Speaker 2: I don't know, like I didn't. I'm not fucking special.
Speaker 1: I've never but I just did in that moment for
Speaker 1: the seventeen minutes that he was somewhere else, ye you know,
Speaker 1: and the eleven minutes before the Ambos got there, it's like, oh, it.
Speaker 2: Was just very and yeah, you're right.
Speaker 1: It's like a time vortex, right, it is like everything
Speaker 1: goes slow and and I'm I'm telling people to do
Speaker 1: stuff like nobody would come and help me because every
Speaker 1: one freaked out.
Speaker 3: Yes.
Speaker 1: And then in the end there was one guy looking
Speaker 1: at me and I said, what's your name? And he
Speaker 1: told me his name. I won't say his name, I'll
Speaker 1: just say Darren. I said, Darren, I want you to
Speaker 1: come over here now, and I'm not asking, so get
Speaker 1: over here.
Speaker 2: And he went yep.
Speaker 1: And then he came over and I said, you just
Speaker 1: do this and you're doing great, and yeah, but it's
Speaker 1: it's and I mean, you know, I've only pulled back
Speaker 1: the curtain one millimeter compared to what you've done. But
Speaker 1: that is I think you said to me when we're chatting,
Speaker 1: something like, I know this aren't these aren't words out
Speaker 1: of your mouth. But bringing people back from the dead
Speaker 1: is like a bit addictive. Ye, making dead people alive
Speaker 1: again is addictive.
Speaker 3: It is. And people who say it's not a lying
Speaker 3: because I've done it obviously so many times. When it works,
Speaker 3: when you come down off that high like it's it's
Speaker 3: it's hard, especially if things went very well and very smoothly,
Speaker 3: and and and everything happened when it was supposed to,
Speaker 3: so that the two minute marks, something happened, at the
Speaker 3: four minute marks, something happened that you have trained for
Speaker 3: for a long long time, and especially if you're working
Speaker 3: with people who are just like you, who've been on
Speaker 3: the road for a while, and that no one has
Speaker 3: a raised voice, you're no one as a race heart
Speaker 3: rate literally and hey, mate, is anything you do that awesome?
Speaker 3: He wants to canulate. Can you cmulate for me, Thanks
Speaker 3: so much. And I have had the privilege of being
Speaker 3: in those situations where someone who was dead is now
Speaker 3: alive and yeah, look that's it's such as it is addictive.
Speaker 3: And then and then you have to let it go
Speaker 3: because obviously that doesn't work out all the time, and
Speaker 3: you have to be very careful because you will then
Speaker 3: go to someone and you will have a bit of
Speaker 3: confidence about you and that you can't resuscitate them. And
Speaker 3: it's not because you've done something incorrectly. It's because they
Speaker 3: were never going to be retrievable, and that you know,
Speaker 3: for a lot of our students, the first time that happens,
Speaker 3: it's a big thing for them.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, mate, I was wondering about is it possible,
Speaker 1: like when somebody is will jump out of the paramedics
Speaker 1: in a moment, because there's so many other things I
Speaker 1: want to get to, but make this the last one
Speaker 1: in this space. But I think about you know how
Speaker 1: we were talking about, somebody can go through do the
Speaker 1: course flying colors, yes, hds or whatever the equivalent scoring
Speaker 1: system is, you know, high distinctions blah blah blah, but
Speaker 1: then not necessarily be good at all at the job.
Speaker 1: What training or conversations, if any happened around the real world.
Speaker 1: Forget all the clinical and the medical and do this
Speaker 1: and put that in there and dut that up. But
Speaker 1: all the emotional and psychological requirements of doing the job,
Speaker 1: like I know, nothing can prepare them for the job
Speaker 1: as well as the job of course, but is there anything.
Speaker 3: So at the university we have a thing called death
Speaker 3: Week where all the patients die and you get taught
Speaker 3: how to give a family notice, and you get taught
Speaker 3: how to discuss what will happen next, because for a
Speaker 3: lot of people they have no idea, so they apart
Speaker 3: from that. So when you start on the road, you
Speaker 3: have a clinical instructor. And if that instructor is good.
Speaker 3: And I remember the first you know, dead person I
Speaker 3: was involved with my instructor. It was a lovely guy
Speaker 3: and I just watched what he did. I listened to
Speaker 3: the tone of his voice and said, that is the
Speaker 3: benchmark for me, and that he's the benchmark for me forever,
Speaker 3: and I want to be that good. But I was
Speaker 3: fortunate because I was surrounded by exceptionally amazing people. Some
Speaker 3: of them are still working, some of them are you know.
Speaker 3: Went on to be my very good friends, and I
Speaker 3: worked with them quite a lot over the last twenty years.
Speaker 3: Is there anything official? I would say no, certainly you
Speaker 3: will find that people when you go to do something,
Speaker 3: someone like I remember the first time I had to
Speaker 3: give notice, right, So I had to so I ran
Speaker 3: this arrest. That's the first time I was running an arrest, right.
Speaker 3: So I was in charge. I was on the airway,
Speaker 3: I was in charge, and Micah turned up and my
Speaker 3: CI pointed at me and said he's in charge. And
Speaker 3: I was absolutely shitting myself. And I say, an eighty
Speaker 3: something year old male on the floor. He'd been pulled
Speaker 3: out of his bed and he was in cardiac arrest.
Speaker 3: So we're working on him. So after about twenty minutes,
Speaker 3: my clinic constructions said to me, do you think it's
Speaker 3: time for the chat? And I was like, now, the
Speaker 3: chat is when we're going to decide to stop to
Speaker 3: we are going to decide to cease for suscitation on
Speaker 3: that patient. And so what you have to do is
Speaker 3: you have to go and have a chat with the family.
Speaker 3: You have to go and tell them what's going on,
Speaker 3: and you have to use the big words, and you
Speaker 3: have to explo to them that we're going to keep going
Speaker 3: for another ten minutes. That's what's called the ten minute chat.
Speaker 3: But there's a high probability that that person we will
Speaker 3: not be able to resists to take successfully.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 3: So it was a summer and I was covered in
Speaker 3: sweat and we'd taken our shirts off, and everyone was
Speaker 3: covered in sweat. And I got I stood up and
Speaker 3: might see. I picked up a towel, throw it out,
Speaker 3: and he goes, clean stuff up, please, he is put
Speaker 3: shirt back on, and he goes, remember what you're going
Speaker 3: to say, because those people are going to remember it forever.
Speaker 2: Yes.
Speaker 3: I was like, oh, that's heavy. But he was also like,
Speaker 3: you know, one of my favorite people in the world.
Speaker 3: And I learned heaps from him, and I respected him
Speaker 3: and I'd seen him do it. So my added my
Speaker 3: goal and my attitude was I want to deliver this
Speaker 3: information as clear as possible, but with as much empathy
Speaker 3: as possible. So so these people have been married for
Speaker 3: fifty years. So the wife was down in this room,
Speaker 3: which was like a little library, and she was sitting
Speaker 3: in this big, light blue chair and the whole room
Speaker 3: was cut arounded by books. And I walked in and
Speaker 3: I said to her, this is what's going on, but
Speaker 3: at the moment, it appears that we will not be
Speaker 3: able to successfully resuscitate your husband. However, he's getting the
Speaker 3: best care that he could get, like he's getting the
Speaker 3: same level of care that he would get in a hospital.
Speaker 3: But things are working against us, and we will stop
Speaker 3: resuscitation in about ten minutes. And this lady got out
Speaker 3: of the chair, an amazing, beautiful, frail old lady, and
Speaker 3: she gave me a hug and she said, thank you
Speaker 3: so much. You guys are working so hard. And I
Speaker 3: was like, whoa, okay, And obviously it was quite emotional
Speaker 3: for me. I was probably crying, I think. And then
Speaker 3: I have to walk back down the hall and go
Speaker 3: back into the room and say to my colleagues, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: I've had the chat. The family is very aware that
Speaker 3: we're going to stop, and they're like cool, okay. And
Speaker 3: so when I have students, I explained, I tell them
Speaker 3: that story and explained, this is the deal that works.
Speaker 3: Just remember know these people are going to remember exactly
Speaker 3: what you say. They're going to remember it forever, regardless
Speaker 3: of how old they are, you know, and they'll always
Speaker 3: they will always remember how nice you were and what
Speaker 3: you said.
Speaker 1: It's incredible, man, And that's like such a it's like
Speaker 1: a privilege and almost a burden.
Speaker 3: I believe it's a privilege, like I have had the
Speaker 3: privilege of, you know, delivering babies, so being the first
Speaker 3: person that someone sees. And I've also been with people
Speaker 3: who are dying and they know they're dying and they're
Speaker 3: looking at you. You know they're dying, they know they're dying.
Speaker 3: They're looking at you like it's okay to let me die,
Speaker 3: and you're you maybe fighting for them to live, but
Speaker 3: they are looking at you like it's okay. And that
Speaker 3: that is heavy and you can't prepare for that, Like
Speaker 3: what your response to that is sometimes interesting because I
Speaker 3: remember the first time I cried. I was ashamed to
Speaker 3: be crying because I wanted to be a good paramedic
Speaker 3: and I certainly did not want to. But once again,
Speaker 3: the person that I was working with, who's lovely man,
Speaker 3: like I still mates with him, like he's one of
Speaker 3: my heroes, he pulled me aside and said, mate, you know,
Speaker 3: we just sadly, you know, pulled an eighteen year old
Speaker 3: girl out of a damn and that's sad, mate, and
Speaker 3: she's dead now that you should If you weren't crying,
Speaker 3: I would be you know, I would think there was
Speaker 3: something wrong. And I was like okay, and I was blubbering.
Speaker 3: I wasn't just crying like you know, I was blubbering
Speaker 3: because because that was my case and I was trying
Speaker 3: to write the case sheet and I had to ask
Speaker 3: all these quite clinical questions and it just overwhelmed me.
Speaker 3: It was like this this thing that came over me
Speaker 3: and just emptied me, and I just started crying and
Speaker 3: I had to leave the room. And then you know,
Speaker 3: my colleague came out and just spoke to me in
Speaker 3: such a lovely way and said, mate, this is normal,
Speaker 3: this is it's not you know, life sometimes sucks, and
Speaker 3: we did the best we could do. We did the
Speaker 3: best we could do. Yeah, and that's what you need
Speaker 3: to understand. And yeah, so yeah, you like yeah, some
Speaker 3: some I think what we do is amazing. Five percent.
Speaker 3: It's terrible. But if it was the other way around this,
Speaker 3: no no one could do it. It's no way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm with your partner. I mean, if you were
Speaker 1: going through that and you weren't upset, I'll be like Scott,
Speaker 1: he's a sociopath. I'm like, oh no, give me the
Speaker 1: fuck away from him. Yeah, man, that.
Speaker 2: That is that is super duper hard. One last thing.
Speaker 1: What you said, like, sometimes you're with someone and they
Speaker 1: you're the last person they see and they're dying.
Speaker 2: You know they're dying. They know they're dying.
Speaker 1: And they look at you and almost give you permission
Speaker 1: to let them go, or they go to you somehow
Speaker 1: it's okay, like almost allay, your I don't know, yes,
Speaker 1: you're I don't know pain or something like tell me
Speaker 1: about like how do you not?
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I'm just interested in that when somebody.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've certainly been holding people's hands who look at
Speaker 3: you like you they want you to stop what you're doing, right,
Speaker 3: and they squeeze your hand and they're like, yeah, you
Speaker 3: need to let me go, especially obviously with much much
Speaker 3: older people. Yes, you know, and yeah.
Speaker 2: They kind of are they kind of saying to you, mate,
Speaker 2: it's okay.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes they are for sure. And once again, if
Speaker 3: if you were to ask someone who's been on the
Speaker 3: road ten fifteen years, I guarantee they'll say the same thing.
Speaker 3: Because I've OUs obviously had this conversation with my friends, Like,
Speaker 3: I think it's fair of me to speak this way
Speaker 3: because this is for me. Amongst my colleagues and peers,
Speaker 3: it would be some people will tell you it's common,
Speaker 3: like they've had the same experience as me. So I
Speaker 3: guess if no one talks about it, then people who
Speaker 3: have the experience will go as a bit weird, whereas
Speaker 3: I think you should talk about it because I don't
Speaker 3: think it is weird.
Speaker 2: Like, is there any.
Speaker 1: Is there any you know how you said, when you're
Speaker 1: doing your job, you're in the moment, you're fluid, You're
Speaker 1: kind of solving multiple problems. And so I'm doing that
Speaker 1: right now in the podcast. So this is my current plan. Right,
Speaker 1: I'm not solving any problems. I'm just thinking because we're
Speaker 1: coming up to an hour. Yes, and we've literally spoken
Speaker 1: about three percent of your life. Well not free, but
Speaker 1: do you know what I mean, there's so much stuff.
Speaker 1: So this is my current plan. I think we're going
Speaker 1: to talk for another five or so pull the pin,
Speaker 1: and then I think we're going to do another one
Speaker 1: and talk about everything that is not ambulance fictori or
Speaker 1: paramedic involved.
Speaker 2: So is there any remnants of.
Speaker 1: Trauma grief PTSD lurking that you need to kind of navigate.
Speaker 1: I mean, you've been in a lot of stuff that
Speaker 1: probably you know one thousand what the average person sees
Speaker 1: in a lifetime.
Speaker 3: So I have PTSD like I got diagnosed six six
Speaker 3: years ago, like I have nightmares like it doesn't sometimes
Speaker 3: it doesn't affect them. I have no problem going to
Speaker 3: work and putting on my uniform because I love it.
Speaker 3: But I certainly I sometimes lack the empathy with some patients.
Speaker 3: And unfortunately I got assaulted. I actually I got beaten up.
Speaker 3: I had my gaw dislocated. I ended up with a
Speaker 3: traumatic brain injury. I had my ribs broken. I literally
Speaker 3: had the shit kicked out of me by a patient,
Speaker 3: and which ended my single respond to career, which I loved.
Speaker 3: I absolutely love doing that job. I was to drive
Speaker 3: orf get flown to a town really far away, like
Speaker 3: six hours away, and I'd live there for a week
Speaker 3: and you would be on care for twenty four hours
Speaker 3: a day. And that was, without far, my favorite job ever.
Speaker 3: And when I got assaulted, I had to stop. I
Speaker 3: wasn't allowed to do that anymore, and that made me
Speaker 3: incredibly sad because I generinely feel the people of rural
Speaker 3: and remote Victoria deserves the same level of care as
Speaker 3: the people of Footscray or Coburg or Hampton. So that
Speaker 3: and that is a very uncommon role, like to be
Speaker 3: a rual believer, you know, but I loved it, and
Speaker 3: I did some of my absolute best work by myself
Speaker 3: or working with a volunteer which we call ACOS, which
Speaker 3: is still a program that's running, you know. So So
Speaker 3: to answer your question, like, definitely, everyone that's done ten
Speaker 3: or fifteen years has some form of trauma associated and
Speaker 3: how they deal with it where they do deal with
Speaker 3: it positively, like go swimming, go running, play guitar, do
Speaker 3: lots of lovely good things, take a break, travel, or
Speaker 3: whether they do it which I would suggest negatively, like
Speaker 3: vast consumptions of alcohol, or I looks at substances and
Speaker 3: stuff like that, like I don't think that's cool. I've
Speaker 3: never thought that's cool, Like you know, getting pierced and
Speaker 3: getting blind drunk. The issues are the same when you
Speaker 3: wake up the next day. Whereas I think if you
Speaker 3: go surfing that dopamine hit that you're looking for, you
Speaker 3: get it. So I think it's a little bit gentler
Speaker 3: on you to do that kind of stuff. But yeah,
Speaker 3: like I see a shrink. Basically, she saved my life.
Speaker 3: I absolutely love her, you know, I still see her.
Speaker 3: A lot of my mates see shrinks. We talk about
Speaker 3: it's a bit of a joke, a bit of an
Speaker 3: ongoing gag, you know, like you'll get into the car
Speaker 3: here you being it's gotta oh yeah, good mate, how's
Speaker 3: the shrink? Eh? Cool? What is what we've been talking about?
Speaker 3: It's healthier, way healthy, way healthier than iiding it and
Speaker 3: saying to people, no, I don't see a shrink, which
Speaker 3: is absurd because you've been in a room at twelve paramedics,
Speaker 3: eight of them will be seeing someone.
Speaker 1: And probably twelve of them should be absolutely and I'm.
Speaker 3: Sure that's similar numbers to police, to nursing and some
Speaker 3: other aspect like maybe fieries as well.
Speaker 1: Now we're going to talk about this next time, but
Speaker 1: I want to plug it anyway while we're here. The
Speaker 1: tails and troubles of her Ratio Jones and he's continuing,
Speaker 1: and he's continuing, sadness. Yes, now I've had a glimpse.
Speaker 1: I've read for about an hour. It's I haven't read
Speaker 1: the whole book. I'm not, but it's bloody. It's bloody great,
Speaker 1: it's and you've it's good. It's on a slow burn.
Speaker 1: You've sold thousands of copies. People are just discovering it.
Speaker 1: Can you just give our listeners? And we didn't get
Speaker 1: him on here for this. This is in fact, I
Speaker 1: almost forgot all about it. But I thought he's written
Speaker 1: a book. We definitely, in fact, he's written two books.
Speaker 2: We should just give us a snapshot of what the book's.
Speaker 3: About, Okay, say, the main character is a girl named Constantine.
Speaker 3: She's a photographer and she gets given like a portfolio
Speaker 3: of writers. And one of those writers is a gentleman
Speaker 3: by the name of Horatio Jones, who is a bit
Speaker 3: of a recluse and flatly refuses to have anything to
Speaker 3: do with her. So she's sort of chasing him around Europe,
Speaker 3: because the whole book said in Europe, because every year
Speaker 3: I go and live in Europe. And he without giving
Speaker 3: too much of the story away, because you know, you
Speaker 3: should read the book. You know they did this whole
Speaker 3: thing of playing chasy around Europe. And yeah, and it's
Speaker 3: got some poetry. He's a poet. He writes poetry and
Speaker 3: It was kind of interesting because obviously I had to
Speaker 3: become all these different people, which is really kind of cool.
Speaker 3: And each time they're removed from you, you get away
Speaker 3: with it a little bit more like a ratio. Jones
Speaker 3: gets to say shit that I'd like to say, but
Speaker 3: if I said it, people would think was weird.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, this is a thinly disguised message from you.
Speaker 3: Yeah. So it was really one of the most interesting
Speaker 3: things is you know, I've had the privilege of being
Speaker 3: involved in some writers festivals and you do Q and
Speaker 3: as and and I had we had some dinners where
Speaker 3: people had bought the book and then organized for their
Speaker 3: book club to have me come and we would talk
Speaker 3: about the book. And I had some beautiful, prominently older
Speaker 3: ladies say to me, oh, is this true? And I'd say, well,
Speaker 3: that story is true. That absolutely happened. I was there,
Speaker 3: and obviously there's some traumatic stories in there. And they
Speaker 3: might say, well is that that well I read that
Speaker 3: thing about this and is that true? And I say, yeah,
Speaker 3: that happened. I really did. You know. It was sad,
Speaker 3: but it actually happened. And they would say, I think
Speaker 3: there's a character in there, and he's a chef and
Speaker 3: he's got tatoo is I think that's you? And you go, well,
Speaker 3: I don't know, like why do you think it's me?
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: So it's very interesting people's perception of what it is
Speaker 3: and how it works. And I certainly have had people
Speaker 3: say to me, oh, you know, I think you did
Speaker 3: this so you could that character is you and then
Speaker 3: you get to say that, and I said, oh, look,
Speaker 3: I didn't overthink it, you know, I just wrote it
Speaker 3: and thank you very much for reading it, you.
Speaker 1: Know, so yeah, and of course you know you wrote it.
Speaker 1: It's like, even with the stuff that I write that's
Speaker 1: not fiction, but it's still you coming, you know, even
Speaker 1: my messages on an Instagram, it's still it's still an
Speaker 1: expression of who I am.
Speaker 2: You know, go on.
Speaker 3: I was going to say, yeah, what for me is
Speaker 3: what is lovely? And it's been people say, oh, that
Speaker 3: poem you wrote, it's got this amazing so lovely, and
Speaker 3: I'm like, thank you. Think it means a lot because
Speaker 3: you know, one of my very good friends who was
Speaker 3: the first, one of the first people to read it,
Speaker 3: rang up and said, mate, I read the book. It's amazing.
Speaker 3: Did you write the whole thing? And I went yeah,
Speaker 3: even the poetry, And I went, yeah, where did you
Speaker 3: think I got that from? Like, Gus, the poetry is amazing,
Speaker 3: I went, thank you.
Speaker 1: Isn't it funny how there's this little dude who works
Speaker 1: at seven to eleven near the gym where I train,
Speaker 1: and I don't know how old he is, twenty and
Speaker 1: he figured out I don't know how I didn't tell him.
Speaker 1: He figured out who I am, not that I'm anyone,
Speaker 1: but and now he follows me on Instagram and every
Speaker 1: day I come in, I get a coffee, usually which
Speaker 1: I try and get a coffee because I'm going to
Speaker 1: come home and study or research.
Speaker 2: Or writes or whatever.
Speaker 1: And yesterday I went in, I got a coffee and
Speaker 1: he goes, can I ask you a question?
Speaker 2: I go, yeah. He goes, all the things on your Instagram?
Speaker 2: Do you write them? I go. I'm like, it's got
Speaker 2: my fucking name on it.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I go, yeah, yeah yeah, And.
Speaker 1: He goes, but but like all the words, like at
Speaker 1: all the words your words, like like it's kind of
Speaker 1: insulting me and a little bit like because you look
Speaker 1: too fucking stupid, and like I don't know what that though.
Speaker 1: You know, people who don't know me and they just
Speaker 1: see my shit and they think, gee, this is quite whatever,
Speaker 1: clever or philosophical or helpful or yes, and then they
Speaker 1: meet me.
Speaker 2: It's like a disappointment because.
Speaker 3: I definitely, I definitely have had that, but more from
Speaker 3: people that I know, never from strangers, more from people
Speaker 3: know me for a long time, have come to me gone,
Speaker 3: I heard you write a book. And I'm like, I
Speaker 3: love when people say that, because you go, well, clearly
Speaker 3: you heard that, and you probably have gone to the website,
Speaker 3: and you know I did, right because there's clearly pictures
Speaker 3: of me on the website. Right. I didn't build the website.
Speaker 3: Someone did it for me, an amazing job.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 3: So then I'm always interested in what comes next and
Speaker 3: they go, I just really wrote that book and you think, nah, dude,
Speaker 3: like I didn't, even though it's got my name on it.
Speaker 3: And there's heaps of stories in there, and if you
Speaker 3: read them you can clearly it's me, you know, So
Speaker 3: that part of it has it has been sometimes quite funny
Speaker 3: because I think people would look at you, maybe maybe
Speaker 3: the people that look at you personally, so they look
Speaker 3: at Craig Cark and they go big guy lifts heavy things, well,
Speaker 3: probably can't be that smart, clearly, because you can't have both, right,
Speaker 3: and then maybe people look at me and go smaller
Speaker 3: guy covered in tattoos, Well, straight away he must be
Speaker 3: dickare because he's coming to Satday. He's even gotatoos on
Speaker 3: his hands, he must be That's not cool. Where's nail polish?
Speaker 3: Fucking not cool? Big ear rings, looks like an old
Speaker 3: school punk rocker.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I don't want to talk to him, and I wouldn't
Speaker 3: let maybe my kids talk to him. Kind of vibe.
Speaker 3: So obviously when you wear a uniform completely different, it is,
Speaker 3: I think, very conflicting for some people when I come
Speaker 3: into their house, But once I hopefully want to start talking,
Speaker 3: they're fine with it, because they normally are. I've never
Speaker 3: had someone complain, but yeah, for me, that's been the
Speaker 3: most interesting part, Like when I go to a writer's festival,
Speaker 3: like I'm maybe not wearing enough long black coats.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no, you need to you need to get
Speaker 1: a little darker. Hey, I want to ask you, what's
Speaker 1: your heart rate?
Speaker 3: Eighty seven?
Speaker 1: Yeah, there it is, Look at you. Hey, he's fucking
Speaker 1: found his groove. All right, we're going to go, but
Speaker 1: tell everyone where they can get your book.
Speaker 3: Www. Dot Horatio. Is it the underscore the little thing?
Speaker 1: Yeah, Underscore Underscore Jones. Yeah, he is the fucking salesperson
Speaker 1: of all time.
Speaker 2: Hey, I am I'm terrible. Yeah you're shit, but that's okay.
Speaker 2: You'll get better.
Speaker 1: I'll fucking coach you. Hey, we're gonna we're going to
Speaker 1: reboot and do another one and talk about the million
Speaker 1: other things that you've done. You're just an interesting dude.
Speaker 1: You're a humble dude. You like you're a good person.
Speaker 1: I love having chats with people like you. I love
Speaker 1: catching up yesterday, I love catching up today. I think
Speaker 1: my listeners will love you. I appreciate you. We'll say
Speaker 1: goodbye affair, but for the moment, thanks mate, see you soon.
Speaker 3: No worries. Thank you very I appreciate you too, and
Speaker 3: thank you so much for the time you've been very gracious.