1 00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:03,000 Speaker 1: Get our team. It's the year Project Tiffany and Cook 2 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:08,000 Speaker 1: and David Bryan, Kevin Patrick Gillespia. Here, the hostess with 3 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:11,680 Speaker 1: the mostess is up in the top left corner with 4 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:17,599 Speaker 1: no TYP representation at all behind her, as is her way, 5 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:21,400 Speaker 1: despite the fact that she's currently working on TYP and 6 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:23,000 Speaker 1: being paid by TYP. 7 00:00:23,480 --> 00:00:25,079 Speaker 2: Hi, Tiff, he still got. 8 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:27,440 Speaker 3: My bloody Cameron Gillisbow doesn't even shear. 9 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:31,040 Speaker 1: His first Gillesbow could be sitting in a brothel in 10 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:34,880 Speaker 1: some kind of remote dungeon anywhere, couldn't he. You don't 11 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:36,040 Speaker 1: know with him. 12 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:38,199 Speaker 2: Gillispoe's and Ai. You know that, don't you? 13 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:41,519 Speaker 1: Exactly? All we get is a black box with a 14 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:44,320 Speaker 1: name on it. We don't even know if you fucking exist, 15 00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:49,160 Speaker 1: That's right, I mean, I know there was a man 16 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:52,760 Speaker 1: called David Gillespie who allegedly wrote some books and did 17 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:56,280 Speaker 1: a law degree and kind of invented a few things. 18 00:00:56,400 --> 00:00:58,959 Speaker 1: But how do we know that you are? 19 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:02,720 Speaker 2: He yes, this is a good point. Perhaps you'll have 20 00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 2: to pay to see me. 21 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:08,639 Speaker 1: Well, No, we were talking. I don't know why anyone 22 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:10,480 Speaker 1: that's here this they probably don't. But I was just 23 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:14,240 Speaker 1: saying to tiff my neck and shoulders are fucked and 24 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 1: I want to go get a massage, but it's too 25 00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:18,640 Speaker 1: it's freezing in Melbourne and you've got to walk out. 26 00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:22,040 Speaker 1: And I live on a main street where there are 27 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:24,720 Speaker 1: literally five different places where you can What are you 28 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:25,600 Speaker 1: shaking your head at? 29 00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 3: Just because I know how close there is a million 30 00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:31,440 Speaker 3: massage places to your place, and I'm like it exactly. 31 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:34,480 Speaker 1: I mean when I say close, I mean literally within 32 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:38,120 Speaker 1: fifty meters there's three, or one hundred meters there's three. 33 00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:40,679 Speaker 1: But I don't like getting the massage, then having to 34 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:42,759 Speaker 1: get off the warm table, out of the warm room, 35 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:44,800 Speaker 1: and then walk home, and it kind of fucks up 36 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 1: the whole. But Tiff and I accurately predicted that you 37 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 1: would have never had a massage, and we questioned you 38 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:57,240 Speaker 1: and you said, no, I could think essentially, you said, 39 00:01:57,280 --> 00:01:59,840 Speaker 1: I could think of nothing worse. Just unpack that with 40 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 1: this a little bit. 41 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:05,440 Speaker 2: I just the whole idea just gives me the IX. 42 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:10,400 Speaker 2: You know, just someone just rubbing you. It seems weird. 43 00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:14,120 Speaker 1: As I said, you've just never had the right person 44 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:17,120 Speaker 1: rub you because a great and I'm not being sexual 45 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:18,639 Speaker 1: at all, I just mean, are you. 46 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:21,560 Speaker 2: Are you volunteering Craig, are you. 47 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:23,600 Speaker 1: Well, I'm coming to coinsland, so you just get your 48 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 1: bath robe on. 49 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:28,120 Speaker 2: I'll just give me plenty of warnings so I've nowhere 50 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:28,560 Speaker 2: near you. 51 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:30,720 Speaker 1: Fucking don't worry. If I get a hold of you, 52 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:32,360 Speaker 1: I'll be rubbing the shit out of you. It could 53 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:35,720 Speaker 1: be transformative you. I'll just start on your neck and 54 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:38,200 Speaker 1: you'll be like one of those cats that gets picked 55 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:40,679 Speaker 1: up by its mother. You'll be just like putty in 56 00:02:40,760 --> 00:02:45,960 Speaker 1: my hands. Yeah, I feel like this is probably enough 57 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:49,280 Speaker 1: of this kind of sa Yeah. I think we've just 58 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:51,839 Speaker 1: backed him into a verbal could sack. He's like, fuck, 59 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 1: I'm very uncomfortable right now. Can we talk about something else? 60 00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 3: This is my favorite Goleste episode. 61 00:02:57,480 --> 00:03:00,680 Speaker 1: I know it's the first time he's ever been stuck 62 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:03,440 Speaker 1: for words. Hey, so you sent me an interesting article today, 63 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:08,519 Speaker 1: which kind of I guess. In the far far back 64 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:12,480 Speaker 1: kind of the back back paddock of my mind, I've thought, 65 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:16,119 Speaker 1: if I ever want to have a kid, it's okay 66 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:19,839 Speaker 1: because my sixty one year old sperm would be very 67 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:25,800 Speaker 1: robust because I'm so fucking healthy and allegedly but old dudes, 68 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:29,720 Speaker 1: it doesn't really make much difference, I thought, as did 69 00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:33,760 Speaker 1: most of the world until well, I don't know what. 70 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:36,680 Speaker 1: Maybe you knew better, but a recent article tells us 71 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 1: that my old sperm might be somewhat limited in their 72 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:44,360 Speaker 1: capacity to produce healthy TIF. What do you make in 73 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 1: a face for I. 74 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 3: Don't know, just the visuals that operated in my mind. 75 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 2: People have imagining your old sperm, men. 76 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:57,440 Speaker 3: Have sperms, thinking cartoons in your voice evokes it, and 77 00:03:57,480 --> 00:03:59,440 Speaker 3: there's all sorts of shit. 78 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:02,920 Speaker 1: That's okay, all men have. All men have sperm. They 79 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:05,760 Speaker 1: just get a little bit as Dave's about to tell us, 80 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 1: like less robust as they age. What's so, what is 81 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 1: this research in Europe? Found David. 82 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 2: So, the thinking has always been pretty much like what 83 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:20,040 Speaker 2: you said, which is because men can pretty much produce 84 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:22,560 Speaker 2: sperm until the end of their lives. There's no limitations 85 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:26,480 Speaker 2: like women who will run out of eggs at menopause. 86 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:32,599 Speaker 2: They've thought, oh, well that doesn't matter. Now that's why 87 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:34,919 Speaker 2: you know, you can have an eighty year old man 88 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:37,720 Speaker 2: and you can still father children with a woman as 89 00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:43,600 Speaker 2: long as she's still capable of producing eggs. So there 90 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:49,080 Speaker 2: was some really early research that suggested age was not 91 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:53,760 Speaker 2: a good thing for sperm health. Now not meaning that 92 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:57,880 Speaker 2: you couldn't produce sperm age didn't affect that at all, 93 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:04,120 Speaker 2: It was just how useful they were so very early on. 94 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:07,400 Speaker 2: There was some research that suggested, look, maybe there's a 95 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 2: similar thing to menopause for men, where the sperm become 96 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:13,440 Speaker 2: less and less useful sort of after the age of 97 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:18,159 Speaker 2: forty five. And for a very long time, the standard 98 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 2: medical advice was even for men, is try and have 99 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:25,240 Speaker 2: your kids before you turn forty five, because you're going 100 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 2: to have a lot harder time doing it afterwards. And 101 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:31,239 Speaker 2: then there was also some studies that suggested it wasn't 102 00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:37,200 Speaker 2: just about having kids. The rates of birth defects, particularly 103 00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:39,240 Speaker 2: down syndrome was the one they were picking up in 104 00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:46,440 Speaker 2: the studies, seemed to be much much higher in couples 105 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:49,160 Speaker 2: where the male was over the age of forty five. 106 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:57,279 Speaker 2: But those studies didn't really go anywhere, and they've sort 107 00:05:57,320 --> 00:06:02,800 Speaker 2: of been dismissed because the narrative really became dominated by 108 00:06:02,839 --> 00:06:06,840 Speaker 2: this idea that infertility was really a female problem, and 109 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:11,640 Speaker 2: particularly age with infertility was always a female problem, because 110 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 2: there was a really clear demarcation there. But the theory 111 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:19,000 Speaker 2: behind that original science still stood and no one really 112 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:22,240 Speaker 2: debunked it, and the theory was pretty simple, which is 113 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:26,480 Speaker 2: that sperma one of the highest reproducing cells in the 114 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:29,400 Speaker 2: human body. They're cycling all the time, so there's a 115 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:32,760 Speaker 2: lot of them. They're being changed and reproduced and die 116 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:35,320 Speaker 2: all the time. And so whenever you have anything in 117 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 2: the human body where it's been continuously recreated, you introduce 118 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:45,240 Speaker 2: the possibility of errors, particularly in significant volume, so that 119 00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:49,520 Speaker 2: you do something a million times, you have x percentage 120 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:52,240 Speaker 2: of errors. You do something ten million times, then it's 121 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:54,240 Speaker 2: a lot more. If you do something a billion times, 122 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:57,840 Speaker 2: it's a lot more. So you keep introducing the possibility 123 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:02,440 Speaker 2: that you will introduce a rammeraror that could affect the 124 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:06,280 Speaker 2: viability of the sperm. Something called motility which is how 125 00:07:06,279 --> 00:07:10,200 Speaker 2: it moves, something called morphology which is what it looks like, 126 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:12,200 Speaker 2: and its ability to actually make it to an egg 127 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:16,880 Speaker 2: and do anything. And this is usually expressed naturally in 128 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:21,200 Speaker 2: the miscarriage rate. So the more dysfunctional the sperm are, 129 00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 2: Nature takes care of this, and even if it allows 130 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:29,000 Speaker 2: an impregnanty an impregnation to occur, then it might not 131 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:34,560 Speaker 2: produce a viable live birth because we still have control 132 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 2: systems in place to stop this. Kind of thing happening. 133 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:42,600 Speaker 2: So it was, and the theory there was fine, was 134 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:45,520 Speaker 2: perfectly fine. It's just everyone kind of ignored it because 135 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 2: it didn't fit with the overall narrative that this is 136 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:52,760 Speaker 2: really a women's problem. This study that's just come out 137 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 2: is the first really detailed study of this issue, really 138 00:07:57,440 --> 00:08:04,480 Speaker 2: really comprehensive, detailed study where they've looked at the age 139 00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:09,600 Speaker 2: of the male in IVF circumstances. Now, this is the 140 00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:11,440 Speaker 2: reason this is important that it's in IVF, is you 141 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:14,720 Speaker 2: can be really accurate in IVF. You know exactly how 142 00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:17,120 Speaker 2: old the male is, you know exactly how old the 143 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:20,000 Speaker 2: female was when she donated the eggs, you know exactly 144 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:25,160 Speaker 2: You've got all those very very precise measurements. And so 145 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:27,680 Speaker 2: they were able to do some fairly comprehensive studies of this, 146 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:29,760 Speaker 2: and they divided the groups up into forty five and 147 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:32,720 Speaker 2: older and under forty five for the males, and they 148 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:39,319 Speaker 2: found some pretty significant things. Over forty five, the miscarriage 149 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:43,400 Speaker 2: rate for males was twenty three point eight percent, so 150 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:48,000 Speaker 2: basically a quarter of all pregnancies that were as a 151 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:52,680 Speaker 2: result of male sperm over the age of forty five. Well, 152 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:54,560 Speaker 2: where the donor was over the age of forty five. 153 00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:57,720 Speaker 2: A quarter of them, we're not going to succeed, So 154 00:08:57,880 --> 00:09:00,440 Speaker 2: straight up miscarage, which is nature's way of saying, this 155 00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:04,079 Speaker 2: is not likely to be a viable baby. We're sorting 156 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:04,480 Speaker 2: this out. 157 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:09,000 Speaker 1: That's very that's I mean, that's very high, isn't it. 158 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:12,719 Speaker 1: I mean, in four one in four is a miscarriage 159 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:18,120 Speaker 1: because the dad's or the sperm donor so to speak, 160 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:20,520 Speaker 1: is over forty five. 161 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:26,319 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, incredible and under forty five. Now they didn't 162 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:28,960 Speaker 2: really get into how much under forty five. This could 163 00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:31,679 Speaker 2: have been forty four, but in the arbitrary line, they 164 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:34,160 Speaker 2: drew in the sand under forty five or sixteen percent, 165 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:37,679 Speaker 2: which is what about one in eight, so you know, 166 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:41,280 Speaker 2: about half as many we're having problems under the age 167 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:45,280 Speaker 2: of forty five. So this is a very significant thing. 168 00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:49,720 Speaker 1: I was just thinking exactly you like, well, I read 169 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:52,200 Speaker 1: the thing and it said men of forty five twenty 170 00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:55,840 Speaker 1: four percent miscarriages compared to sixteen percent in younger men, which, 171 00:09:56,040 --> 00:10:01,240 Speaker 1: as you pointed out, they didn't really define. I'm thinking, well, 172 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:04,760 Speaker 1: I wonder if we had a look at men under thirty, 173 00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:09,880 Speaker 1: you know, because younger than forty because it's over forty 174 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:12,720 Speaker 1: five the group. So the other group includes forty five 175 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:16,240 Speaker 1: and younger. So I would think that fifteen years between 176 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 1: thirty and forty five would also be a much higher 177 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:21,880 Speaker 1: rate than twenty and thirty for example. 178 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:24,439 Speaker 2: Yeah, I suspect it right, And the study authors came 179 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:26,840 Speaker 2: to the same conclusion and have said, you know, please 180 00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:29,040 Speaker 2: play us to do another study where we actually break 181 00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 2: this down in a lot more detail, not just for 182 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:34,120 Speaker 2: the younger group, but the older group too. What's the 183 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:35,960 Speaker 2: difference in rate for a fifty year old, what's the 184 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:39,120 Speaker 2: difference for a fifty five year old, so that we 185 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:41,560 Speaker 2: can get some really good data on this. But just 186 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:47,920 Speaker 2: the data they've got is significant enough. It shows that 187 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:52,160 Speaker 2: age really starts to be a problem. And the reason 188 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:56,920 Speaker 2: for that is simply that that continuous reproduction of sperm 189 00:10:56,960 --> 00:11:02,000 Speaker 2: cells over time introduces an enough mutations enough what I 190 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:05,559 Speaker 2: called double strand breaks in the DNA, which is things 191 00:11:05,559 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 2: that make the sperm appear viable but not actually viable. Also, interestingly, 192 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:15,440 Speaker 2: they hinted in the study that they were seeing evidence, 193 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:20,160 Speaker 2: although they don't give numbers on this evidence, that birth 194 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:24,320 Speaker 2: defects were also much much higher in the in the 195 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:27,480 Speaker 2: older cohort, which matches up with the older research I 196 00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:30,400 Speaker 2: was talking about where and in particular they're looking at 197 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:34,440 Speaker 2: bound syndrome. But and that makes sense, is that you 198 00:11:34,559 --> 00:11:37,840 Speaker 2: might get through all the gatekeepers. The sperm might be 199 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:41,560 Speaker 2: good enough to get to you know, to to form 200 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:44,560 Speaker 2: an embryo, and it might be good enough to survive 201 00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:48,560 Speaker 2: the natural processes that would produce a miscarriage, but still 202 00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:53,360 Speaker 2: not be able to produce you know, a neurologically normal child, 203 00:11:53,559 --> 00:11:57,080 Speaker 2: if you want to say it that way. So it's 204 00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:02,400 Speaker 2: it just those to the logic of that. And I've 205 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:06,400 Speaker 2: written about this before in relation to seed oils and 206 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:10,200 Speaker 2: will come back to this. But the statistics on childhood leukemia, 207 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:12,920 Speaker 2: and I think we've mentioned this before, are really mind buying. 208 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:17,520 Speaker 2: So childhood leukemia is blood cancer in a person who's 209 00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:21,000 Speaker 2: under the age of fourteen years, and the rates of 210 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:25,839 Speaker 2: that have increased sixfold in the last six decades. So 211 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:31,000 Speaker 2: that isn't something that's just you can't say, oh, that's 212 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:33,160 Speaker 2: the aging population, which is the thing they throw out 213 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:36,200 Speaker 2: whenever you talk about increasing cancer rates for anything else, 214 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:39,840 Speaker 2: because the definition here is that the person who's under 215 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:42,199 Speaker 2: the age of fourteen. You can't say, oh, this was 216 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:45,200 Speaker 2: their stupid lifestyle. You know, they were eating themselves to 217 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:48,160 Speaker 2: death and that's what caused this. Well, you know that's 218 00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:50,320 Speaker 2: not happening in an under fourteen year old. You know, 219 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:56,040 Speaker 2: this is something that they're born with, or which they 220 00:12:56,040 --> 00:13:00,199 Speaker 2: at least have the setup for when they're born. And 221 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:03,560 Speaker 2: for that to increase sixfold in that period of time 222 00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:08,120 Speaker 2: suggests there's something really really odd going on into generationally, 223 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:10,120 Speaker 2: and this might give us a bit of a clue 224 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:12,680 Speaker 2: as to what it might be. So they've always known 225 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:17,680 Speaker 2: the rates of things like childhood cancer and down syndrome 226 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:21,679 Speaker 2: are higher the older the father is. They've never made 227 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:23,640 Speaker 2: much of a fuss about it because the last thing 228 00:13:23,679 --> 00:13:25,000 Speaker 2: in the world they want to do, and the last 229 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:27,760 Speaker 2: thing we should be doing, by the way, is make 230 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:34,200 Speaker 2: older fathers feel guilty for anything. We're just talking about 231 00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:40,360 Speaker 2: bio biology here and chemistry and thinking about what impacts 232 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:43,160 Speaker 2: this might mean for people who are thinking about this 233 00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:43,880 Speaker 2: in the future. 234 00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:46,280 Speaker 1: But the. 235 00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:50,400 Speaker 2: Reason for that is that as you reproduce things, you 236 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:54,840 Speaker 2: introduce errors, these double strand breaks and so on. But 237 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:56,640 Speaker 2: there are other ways to do this, and we've talked 238 00:13:56,679 --> 00:13:58,960 Speaker 2: about this before. You can smoke and that's been one 239 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:02,720 Speaker 2: that's being known for a very long time. It introduces 240 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 2: aldehydes into the bloodstream, which have exactly the same effect. 241 00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:11,240 Speaker 2: So it has been reasonably well known medical law for 242 00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:15,720 Speaker 2: at least the last few decades that expectant fathers should 243 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:21,040 Speaker 2: preferably be younger and preferably not smoking. And I want 244 00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:23,480 Speaker 2: to add to that list, and not eating seed oils, 245 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:29,920 Speaker 2: because seed oils produce exactly the same things. In fact, 246 00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:33,560 Speaker 2: a slightly well a significantly worse aldehyde than smoking and 247 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:38,800 Speaker 2: a significantly worse aldehyde than alcohol consumption into the bloodstream. 248 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:42,200 Speaker 2: And everything we eat today is full of seed oils. 249 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:46,560 Speaker 2: So that's something to take into account, as well as 250 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:49,400 Speaker 2: paternal age. So what's the upshot of all of this. 251 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:52,320 Speaker 2: If you're wanting to have a baby, be as young 252 00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:58,920 Speaker 2: as you humanly can, you know, and don't smoke, don't drink, 253 00:14:58,920 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 2: and don't eat seed oils. 254 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 1: What yeah? Yeah? And also I mean if you are 255 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:10,040 Speaker 1: older and you do want to get pregnant, I mean 256 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:12,640 Speaker 1: you can wind back the biological clock a little bit. 257 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:15,040 Speaker 1: You can't wind back the chronological clock, but at the 258 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:18,880 Speaker 1: very least, if you're not in great shape, spend six 259 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:22,200 Speaker 1: or twelve months trying to get healthier, much much healthier, 260 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:26,560 Speaker 1: and give yourself a better chance. I wonder why paternal 261 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:31,240 Speaker 1: age has been overlooked for so long as a research 262 00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:33,239 Speaker 1: focus in reproductive medicine. 263 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:36,440 Speaker 2: It's it looks hard to say that other than the 264 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:38,120 Speaker 2: fact that when you read these studies you get a 265 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:45,160 Speaker 2: real flavor of having babies was a women's thing. So 266 00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:50,160 Speaker 2: clearly problems with having babies was a women's thing too. 267 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:54,160 Speaker 2: Rather like when you said at the top of the show, 268 00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:58,400 Speaker 2: you know, you know, I'm still you know, virile and 269 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:05,640 Speaker 2: producing sperm to Tim's discuss, that kind of dominated I 270 00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:07,920 Speaker 2: guess the minds of the researchers who are doing this 271 00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 2: kind of work, which is, you know, there's no obvious 272 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:15,920 Speaker 2: menopause for men. It's you know, they're they're quite as 273 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:19,440 Speaker 2: capable often, you know, to their sixties or seventies as 274 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:23,000 Speaker 2: they are in their twenties, and so you know, obviously 275 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:25,960 Speaker 2: any issues in childbirth were obviously something to do with 276 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:28,520 Speaker 2: the women, and that tended to be the way the 277 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:33,720 Speaker 2: research was focused. And increasingly, you know, particularly now that 278 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:41,320 Speaker 2: the percentage of infertility is starting to be clearly strongly 279 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:45,800 Speaker 2: favoring men, you know, as male reproductive capability is dropping, 280 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:49,200 Speaker 2: and it has dropped significantly in the last thirty years. 281 00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:55,960 Speaker 2: We've talked before about the dropping sperm counts. Increasingly those 282 00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 2: kind of numbers have forced people to acknowledge, actually, this 283 00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:02,760 Speaker 2: is likely to be not just partly a male problem, 284 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:04,640 Speaker 2: it could be dominantly a male problem. 285 00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:10,880 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, is there I know I should know more 286 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:12,639 Speaker 1: about this stuff than I do, but I've never had 287 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:16,560 Speaker 1: a kid, so that's my excuse. Is there a way 288 00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:21,080 Speaker 1: to test sperm viability other than the amount of sperm 289 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:22,320 Speaker 1: that someone produces? 290 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:26,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, there is. Unfortunately, the particular things that I likely 291 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:30,640 Speaker 2: to cause these problems at the moment don't have reliable tests. 292 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:35,040 Speaker 2: So in particular a double strand break, which is an 293 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:40,760 Speaker 2: issue with the sperm's DNA, which is not able to 294 00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:43,640 Speaker 2: be reliably tested. And we've talked about this before with 295 00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:49,119 Speaker 2: the IVF methodologies which are used well dominant well that 296 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:53,520 Speaker 2: are used dominantly in Australia, which is the ICSI method, 297 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:58,880 Speaker 2: which is a sexual essentially selecting the winner, choosing manually 298 00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:06,480 Speaker 2: choosing the best sperm and then directly injecting it. And 299 00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:10,160 Speaker 2: the theory there is well, you'll eliminate all the obviously 300 00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:13,080 Speaker 2: bad ones or you know, you'll eliminate the problem that 301 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:16,240 Speaker 2: you know, the sperm count isn't very high because you 302 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:21,439 Speaker 2: only need one. And the problem with that methodology is 303 00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:27,440 Speaker 2: that it can't test for the issues that could produce 304 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:34,840 Speaker 2: a miscarriages or be birth defects. And so you have 305 00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:38,439 Speaker 2: the same problem here with this study, which is knowing 306 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:40,679 Speaker 2: this is good, all well and good, but how do 307 00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:45,120 Speaker 2: you prevent it? You know, how can you You can't 308 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:46,840 Speaker 2: make yourself younger. I mean, I can tell you to 309 00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:48,960 Speaker 2: stop eating seed oil and stop smoking and stop drinking, 310 00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 2: but you can't make yourself younger. So what do you 311 00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:55,120 Speaker 2: do there? And how do you prevent this problem? And 312 00:18:55,359 --> 00:18:58,680 Speaker 2: I guess the evolutionary answer to that is you don't 313 00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:01,200 Speaker 2: need to worry about it because carriages will take care 314 00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:05,480 Speaker 2: of it for you. But that's not entirely true, because 315 00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:10,400 Speaker 2: you know, there are also higher rates of birth defects 316 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:14,320 Speaker 2: here with older parent older fathers. 317 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:19,480 Speaker 1: I wonder if there's so interesting. I'm just thinking about 318 00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:23,280 Speaker 1: whether or not, Like I can see somebody creating a 319 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:27,120 Speaker 1: program or a product, or a diet or a protocol 320 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:33,120 Speaker 1: that's going to allegedly help you know, male fertility and 321 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:38,280 Speaker 1: you know, the reproductive capabilities of older men and selling 322 00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:39,640 Speaker 1: that off the back of this. 323 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:43,360 Speaker 2: You know, well there's kind of there's kind of something already, 324 00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:49,680 Speaker 2: which is sperm banks. There's absolutely no reason not to, 325 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:53,880 Speaker 2: you know, produce a supply that you know, when you're 326 00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:56,320 Speaker 2: twenty years old that could be used later on. 327 00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:01,919 Speaker 1: Yes, we I don't know if you remember one of 328 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:05,520 Speaker 1: the in hindsight, it's a bit sad now, but at 329 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:09,359 Speaker 1: the time it was hilarious. But do you remember an 330 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:14,640 Speaker 1: Australian singer and performer called Johnny Ruffo? No, no, so 331 00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:16,920 Speaker 1: he was. He was on one of the talent shows, 332 00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:19,119 Speaker 1: Tiff which one was it was it Australian Idol or 333 00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:21,879 Speaker 1: was It doesn't matter anyway, he did really well in 334 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:26,600 Speaker 1: one of those, ended up being you know, quite quite 335 00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:29,840 Speaker 1: successful in entertainment and music and sadly passed away. 336 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:30,280 Speaker 2: Gee. 337 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:32,200 Speaker 1: I don't know how long ago Tiff year and a 338 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:36,960 Speaker 1: half or so, I'm not sure, But anyway, he was 339 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:39,639 Speaker 1: on the show a couple of times and before he 340 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:43,120 Speaker 1: passed away, and he was as he was sick, him 341 00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:48,720 Speaker 1: and his partner were going for him to donate sperms 342 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:51,960 Speaker 1: and he was He described in some detail of the process, 343 00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:56,159 Speaker 1: and he was also very very funny, So it was 344 00:20:56,280 --> 00:21:01,320 Speaker 1: like it was it was awkward, but it was so 345 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:03,719 Speaker 1: funny to hear that the way that he did that, 346 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:05,840 Speaker 1: and you know, he's walking out of this thing with 347 00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:08,639 Speaker 1: his little jar and handing it to this strange woman 348 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:12,240 Speaker 1: and oh my god. But yeah, I don't know how 349 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:13,920 Speaker 1: else you would do that. You probably don't want to 350 00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:15,240 Speaker 1: talk about that, David. 351 00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:19,760 Speaker 2: Well, I mean it is a solution. You know. You 352 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:22,920 Speaker 2: could take the view, Look, I don't know when I'm 353 00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:26,320 Speaker 2: going to have kids, and I don't want to. You know, 354 00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 2: I'm looking at this study and I'm seeing that at 355 00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:31,440 Speaker 2: least at the age of forty five, you know, things 356 00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:34,120 Speaker 2: get worse, and the study authors are saying, look, there's 357 00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:37,879 Speaker 2: a pretty high chance it goes really bad after that. 358 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:41,199 Speaker 2: That you might say to yourself if you're in your 359 00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 2: twenty as well, you know, there's one solution there. I'll 360 00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:48,760 Speaker 2: just I'll create a time capsule, you know, and then 361 00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:51,240 Speaker 2: it doesn't matter, you know, if I have kids when 362 00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:53,440 Speaker 2: I'm sixty old, I'll use the twenty year old'sperg. 363 00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:57,000 Speaker 1: I guess also, if you're like a lot of people 364 00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:00,360 Speaker 1: are getting married older now, you know, so if you're 365 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:04,200 Speaker 1: a dude and you're getting married at thirty five, six, seven, eight, 366 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:07,919 Speaker 1: and you know, probably my sperm's okay at the moment. 367 00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:10,960 Speaker 1: But if we start having kids in a year or two, 368 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:13,800 Speaker 1: I'm going to be in my forties. So yeah, I 369 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:17,000 Speaker 1: guess it's a it's a practical option for a lot 370 00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:17,840 Speaker 1: of people. Anyway. 371 00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:22,080 Speaker 2: Well, I think the last time we measured this, and 372 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:24,080 Speaker 2: it might have been the sense, so I'm not sure. 373 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:29,159 Speaker 2: The age of first marriage for Australian men was thirty 374 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:33,600 Speaker 2: three point seven in twenty twenty two, and that was 375 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:35,479 Speaker 2: up a big jump. I think that was like a 376 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 2: five year jump on what it had been like five 377 00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:43,159 Speaker 2: years before that. So, you know, the extended adolescence that 378 00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:47,320 Speaker 2: is occurring with kids these days, he is affecting when 379 00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:51,440 Speaker 2: they get married and you know, not to be an 380 00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:54,240 Speaker 2: old fogie, but probably also affecting when they're lucky to 381 00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:59,960 Speaker 2: have a child. So yeah, there is a societal trend 382 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:05,240 Speaker 2: towards older marriage and older childbirth, and whilst women tend 383 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:08,520 Speaker 2: to be very aware of that. You know that famous 384 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:11,840 Speaker 2: scene in My Cousin Vinnie the movie, You'll have to 385 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:17,240 Speaker 2: look it up where she's standing on the stupid of 386 00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:20,320 Speaker 2: the thing and she's slamming a foot down saying, my 387 00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:26,359 Speaker 2: biological clock is tick tick ticking. So you know, women 388 00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:30,840 Speaker 2: are very aware of this and really focused on it, 389 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:36,720 Speaker 2: and men couldn't care less. This study says they should. Yeah. 390 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 1: Is I mean, I don't know if you know the 391 00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:41,280 Speaker 1: answer to this, but if someone's listening to this and 392 00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:44,640 Speaker 1: them or their partner or they go, yeah, this makes sense. 393 00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:48,000 Speaker 1: Where do I if I want to not get my 394 00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:51,120 Speaker 1: sperm frozen or whatever butt or stored, but I want 395 00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:55,639 Speaker 1: to go and get checked to see the viability of 396 00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:59,240 Speaker 1: my sperm. Where do they just see a doctor? Is 397 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:00,280 Speaker 1: that the starting point? 398 00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:02,200 Speaker 2: I think that'd be the starting point, is to ask 399 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:05,639 Speaker 2: their GP And neither you nor I as a doctor, Craig, 400 00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:07,640 Speaker 2: so let's not hand out medical advice. 401 00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:10,119 Speaker 1: I think, Well, no, I was just saying, where do 402 00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:10,920 Speaker 1: we point them? 403 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:16,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think a GPH that would be where I'd start. Yeah, 404 00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:18,560 Speaker 2: and then they can do the work to figure out 405 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:19,400 Speaker 2: where to go from there. 406 00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:22,679 Speaker 1: Could you imagine back in the day when you were 407 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:28,200 Speaker 1: cranking out kids, you know, sixty years ago, sixty years ago? 408 00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:32,240 Speaker 1: Did it ever? Did you ever think about this stuff? Like, 409 00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:34,360 Speaker 1: I mean, how old your youngest. 410 00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:37,400 Speaker 2: Kid twenty one, twenty one. 411 00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:39,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, so that was two thousand and four, 412 00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:42,000 Speaker 1: depending on what month, two thousand and three. 413 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:45,480 Speaker 2: Thousand and three, three, okay, they turned out twenty two 414 00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:46,000 Speaker 2: this year. 415 00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:52,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, and the oldest was born when ninety five, I mean, 416 00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:55,879 Speaker 1: so thirty years ago. Like it was a very different 417 00:24:55,960 --> 00:25:01,040 Speaker 1: landscape even thirty years ago, which is absolutely yeah, you could. 418 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:05,960 Speaker 2: Still eat chips at McDonald's with some safety. They didn't switch. 419 00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:08,960 Speaker 2: They didn't switch to seed oils until two thousand and four, 420 00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:15,280 Speaker 2: and they are among the first to switch, so I 421 00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:19,920 Speaker 2: mean KF seed in switch till twenty twelve. But now 422 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:21,360 Speaker 2: now you're stuffed. 423 00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:25,359 Speaker 1: So now maybe we could explore the correlation between beef 424 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:29,640 Speaker 1: tallow and male productivity reproductivity. 425 00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:32,280 Speaker 2: That would be interesting it because it would have a 426 00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:35,920 Speaker 2: dramatic effect in the United States and Australia at the 427 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:39,919 Speaker 2: very least, because a significant percentage of fried food consumed 428 00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:41,280 Speaker 2: it comes from McDonald's. 429 00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:47,000 Speaker 1: Incredible. Well, mate, it's never boring with you, It's always interesting. 430 00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:49,240 Speaker 2: Now do you want to have you got time for 431 00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:49,720 Speaker 2: another one? 432 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:51,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. 433 00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:54,560 Speaker 2: So there's this other one that I wrote a piece 434 00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:56,160 Speaker 2: on which you won't have read because you just start 435 00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:56,960 Speaker 2: paying the attention. 436 00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:04,600 Speaker 1: Why don't you pick on TIV at least I read 437 00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:07,119 Speaker 1: at least I read this one that you sent to me, 438 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:11,240 Speaker 1: and I read it. Well done, I will say it 439 00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:12,960 Speaker 1: was quite short, so thanks for that. 440 00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:17,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, I hit the highlights. Look, this is a brief thing, 441 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:21,960 Speaker 2: but I think it's important. Another really interesting study came 442 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:27,720 Speaker 2: out this week about fish oil, which is interesting because 443 00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:30,320 Speaker 2: it says the opposite of what everyone has always said 444 00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:34,400 Speaker 2: about fish oil. So this is a very significant, well 445 00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:39,200 Speaker 2: constructed study looking at out on some very big databases 446 00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:43,440 Speaker 2: in Europe, looking at do people who consume fish oil 447 00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:49,480 Speaker 2: have less inflammation? And the answer is no, they don't. 448 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:50,600 Speaker 2: In fact, they have more. 449 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:57,600 Speaker 1: Fuck and how why did we have to say yes 450 00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:04,199 Speaker 1: to the next story? Tip just shaken her head. Now 451 00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:07,800 Speaker 1: you've got to rethink everything. Yeah, all right, come on, 452 00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:09,399 Speaker 1: horse and lim keep going. 453 00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:12,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, well this is a big shock, right because for 454 00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:16,280 Speaker 2: at least since nineteen seventy when the whole fish oil 455 00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 2: thing started with you know who were they the Danes 456 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:27,640 Speaker 2: hands Bang and Yawn Dyerberg who went off to Greenland. Yeah, 457 00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:30,320 Speaker 2: they went off to Greenland to study the Inuit, to say, 458 00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:33,000 Speaker 2: why do the Inuit have less heart attacks. And it's 459 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:37,359 Speaker 2: they do nothing but eat meat all day long, every day. 460 00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:40,720 Speaker 2: Why do they have less heart attacks? Yeah, well no, no, 461 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:43,439 Speaker 2: just meat. So they were eating you know, whales and 462 00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:46,600 Speaker 2: seals and things, and they said, well, you know, shouldn't they. 463 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:49,440 Speaker 2: You know, the orthodoxy at the time was everyone should 464 00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:52,480 Speaker 2: be on the Mediterranean diet and eating vegetables all day long. 465 00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:54,880 Speaker 2: And they said, well, there's these people there eating nothing 466 00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:58,199 Speaker 2: but meat and they've got less heart attacks. And so 467 00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:00,720 Speaker 2: they went up and they investigated, and they included after 468 00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:03,800 Speaker 2: a couple of years of examining them, that, ah, well, 469 00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:07,000 Speaker 2: the problem. The secret here is the Amega three because 470 00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:09,600 Speaker 2: the meat they're eating the fat, and it is full 471 00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:13,640 Speaker 2: of amiga three fats because it comes from sea animal, 472 00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:17,600 Speaker 2: marine life, fish, et cetera. That then they have more 473 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:21,920 Speaker 2: amiga three, particularly in colder waters, and so that must 474 00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:25,399 Speaker 2: be the secret. It's all right, The health Establishment's perfectly okay. 475 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:27,240 Speaker 2: We haven't been telling people to do the wrong thing. 476 00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:31,760 Speaker 2: This paradox is explained by the fact that they're getting 477 00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:34,560 Speaker 2: a Mega three fats not just forget out about everything 478 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:38,440 Speaker 2: else they're eating. And that was it from the nineteen 479 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:41,960 Speaker 2: seventies till now that's that's been the story, which is, oh, 480 00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:44,760 Speaker 2: Omega three is good for you, so you should have 481 00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:51,480 Speaker 2: loads of fish oil and you'll be right. Now. The 482 00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:58,040 Speaker 2: problem is it doesn't appear to be true. And the 483 00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:00,560 Speaker 2: reason we know this is that this study looked at 484 00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:03,520 Speaker 2: the inflammatory markers in people's blood strengths from these huge 485 00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:06,640 Speaker 2: European databases where they're actually measuring these things as part 486 00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:09,240 Speaker 2: of other data that they were capturing. And also they 487 00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:12,560 Speaker 2: knew how much these people were supplementing with fish oil, 488 00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:15,920 Speaker 2: so they knew, okay, they're taking fish will supplements and 489 00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:18,920 Speaker 2: we know that they've got these information markers, and they 490 00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:22,520 Speaker 2: found not only were they not better, they were worse. 491 00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:25,760 Speaker 2: So the people having the fish oil tablets were actually 492 00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:31,440 Speaker 2: had worse inflammation than the people who didn't. And that 493 00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:34,560 Speaker 2: it's a bit of a problem because for the very 494 00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:36,840 Speaker 2: longest time we've been telling people, oh, well you're just 495 00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:42,680 Speaker 2: you know, having information problems. Take some fish will. The 496 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:45,240 Speaker 2: issue they say in the study is they said, well, 497 00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:49,400 Speaker 2: what does make a difference, and they decided that the 498 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:52,760 Speaker 2: group that did best were the ones who had the 499 00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:57,280 Speaker 2: best Amiga three Amiga six ratio, which is less Amiga 500 00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:01,600 Speaker 2: six to omega three. That we've talked about this before. 501 00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:04,600 Speaker 2: In the olden days, you know, when we were wandering 502 00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:08,320 Speaker 2: the grassy plains of Africa, we had an Amiga three 503 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:10,120 Speaker 2: to a mega sixth ratio of about one to one, 504 00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:11,800 Speaker 2: and we have about one and a half grams of 505 00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:16,560 Speaker 2: each just from eating normal stuff food and we're all good. 506 00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:20,600 Speaker 2: Now it's about one to thirty, so one omega three 507 00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:23,160 Speaker 2: to about thirty a mega six. The reason for that 508 00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:27,719 Speaker 2: is that all that seed oil, which is dominated by 509 00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:30,480 Speaker 2: aniga six fats, is now a dominant part of our diet. 510 00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:34,680 Speaker 2: So what this study showed was the really important thing 511 00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:36,640 Speaker 2: is that ratio. You want to get that as close 512 00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:39,480 Speaker 2: to one to one as you possibly can, preferably in 513 00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:41,440 Speaker 2: the range sort of two to one or three to one. 514 00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:44,360 Speaker 2: You know, if you can't hit one to one. And 515 00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:48,320 Speaker 2: the worst that ratio was the more information markers that 516 00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:53,040 Speaker 2: were in the bloodstream. So now study after study after 517 00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:57,240 Speaker 2: study has come out saying this for the last decades, decades, 518 00:30:57,480 --> 00:30:59,240 Speaker 2: loads and loads of them. And at the end of 519 00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:02,160 Speaker 2: it all, the advice from our health authorities, people like 520 00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:05,840 Speaker 2: the Heart Foundation, dieticians, et cetera, has been, oh, well, 521 00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:08,000 Speaker 2: what you need to do, Yes, the ratio of stuffed Yes, 522 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:09,720 Speaker 2: that's the problem. What you need to do is take 523 00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:11,840 Speaker 2: some fish oil and that will sort that out because 524 00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:13,800 Speaker 2: you'll increase the mega three and that will sort out 525 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:18,240 Speaker 2: the ratio. This study says, no, it won't. Increasing the 526 00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:20,560 Speaker 2: amega three doesn't solve anything. What you've actually got to 527 00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:24,320 Speaker 2: do is reduce the amiga six. So that's the hard 528 00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:26,719 Speaker 2: bit where you've got to stop eating margarine, you've got 529 00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:28,760 Speaker 2: to stop eating fried food, you've got to stop eating 530 00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:31,160 Speaker 2: processed food that's full of seed oils that are high 531 00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:34,640 Speaker 2: in omega six. So there's just another piece of evidence 532 00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:38,040 Speaker 2: in that. And then there's this whole complicating factor which 533 00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:40,200 Speaker 2: is not to do with this. But take a look 534 00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:45,360 Speaker 2: at a fish oil capsules contents at some point, A 535 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:49,320 Speaker 2: lot of them are not in fact squeezed out of fish. 536 00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:52,680 Speaker 2: You know, they're based on things like sunflowl oil and 537 00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:55,440 Speaker 2: so on, and then they've had some marine derived omega 538 00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:58,320 Speaker 2: three added to them. So, say for a thousand milligram 539 00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:02,920 Speaker 2: capsule that's sold as fish oil in fact only contains 540 00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:08,080 Speaker 2: about three hundred milligrams of omega three fats, and they 541 00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:10,440 Speaker 2: don't say what the other six hundred other seven hundred 542 00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:13,720 Speaker 2: milligrams are but you might speculate that that perhaps they're 543 00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:14,400 Speaker 2: a Mega six. 544 00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:21,440 Speaker 1: That is so okay. So for people who are like, fucking, 545 00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:24,840 Speaker 1: how do I figure out the ratio that without people 546 00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:29,480 Speaker 1: having to become statisticians and researchers and scientists. The bottom 547 00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:33,400 Speaker 1: line is reduce a mega six, which is contained primarily 548 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:36,160 Speaker 1: in processed foods, fatty foods, take away. 549 00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:40,920 Speaker 2: Seed anything, anything fried is likely to be fried in 550 00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:43,880 Speaker 2: a Mega six. Yeah, the fat in anything in a 551 00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:47,680 Speaker 2: product on a shelf and a souper market is likely 552 00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:49,600 Speaker 2: to be a seed oil high in a Mega six, 553 00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:52,240 Speaker 2: particularly if it's something that has fat has a major 554 00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:57,640 Speaker 2: component like addressing or a mayonnaise or a dip. Those 555 00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:00,719 Speaker 2: things are going to have loads of seed oil in them. 556 00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:03,479 Speaker 2: Chips are fried in it, even the crisps that you're 557 00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:06,320 Speaker 2: buying the supermarket. All takeaway food is fried in it. 558 00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:09,120 Speaker 2: All restaurant food is fried in it, unless the restaurant 559 00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:11,719 Speaker 2: explicitly declares that it's not doing that. You know, like 560 00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:16,200 Speaker 2: someone will say these are duck fat fried potatoes, then sure, 561 00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:20,080 Speaker 2: then they're fried in duck fat. But everything else probably isn't. 562 00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:25,000 Speaker 2: So avoid all seed oils I happen to have produced 563 00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:27,520 Speaker 2: a really handy manual on this if anyone wants to 564 00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:29,400 Speaker 2: get it, called a Good Fat Guide, which just go 565 00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:34,320 Speaker 2: through the entire Australian food supply, every category of food, 566 00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:37,160 Speaker 2: breaks it down, says this is where the Amiga six is. 567 00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:38,720 Speaker 2: These are the things you can have in this food 568 00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:41,360 Speaker 2: category that aren't high in Omega six. So looks at 569 00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:43,840 Speaker 2: things like does it matter if the beef is grass 570 00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:47,320 Speaker 2: fed or not? Does it matter, you know, if a 571 00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:50,240 Speaker 2: fish is farmed or not, all those kinds of things. 572 00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:53,400 Speaker 1: It's about time you promoted something. I think. 573 00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:56,120 Speaker 2: Get it from the library. 574 00:33:57,000 --> 00:34:00,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, don't be an idiot. Where do people buy it? 575 00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:01,920 Speaker 2: This is anyway that sells books. 576 00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:04,600 Speaker 1: By the way, everyone, this is the first time in 577 00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:08,360 Speaker 1: bloody five years is ever mentioned a product that he's written. 578 00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:10,640 Speaker 2: And the only reason I'm doing it, the only reason 579 00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:11,160 Speaker 2: I'm doing. 580 00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:13,160 Speaker 1: It relevant to what we're talking about. 581 00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:16,759 Speaker 2: No, even more so is that is there's a lot 582 00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:19,560 Speaker 2: of detail here. I wish I could give people a 583 00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:23,719 Speaker 2: really simple rule of thumb, but it's really hard and 584 00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:25,960 Speaker 2: you do need a guidebook, and that's why I write one. 585 00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:29,839 Speaker 2: So yeah, it's just it's necessary. Is the only reason 586 00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:32,840 Speaker 2: I'm doing it. We could spend the next sixteen episodes 587 00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:34,800 Speaker 2: going through it page by page, where they could just 588 00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:35,480 Speaker 2: go and get a book. 589 00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:41,480 Speaker 1: All right, well mate, that is that's maybe more depressing, 590 00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:46,960 Speaker 1: maybe than the bloody sperm thing. Anyway, that's where a 591 00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:48,919 Speaker 1: little bit more informed than in light. And we'll say 592 00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:53,960 Speaker 1: goodbye Ufair. But as always, thank you, sir, appreciate you now, pleasure, 593 00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:56,000 Speaker 1: Thanks tiff O. 594 00:34:56,880 --> 00:34:57,800 Speaker 3: Thanks. 595 00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:00,319 Speaker 2: Are you sure she's the Yeah? 596 00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:02,360 Speaker 1: You bit grumpy because you've got to throw out the 597 00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:07,640 Speaker 1: half your buddy. What do you take take? Do you 598 00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:09,000 Speaker 1: take fish oil supplements? 599 00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:09,439 Speaker 3: Yes? 600 00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:11,319 Speaker 1: What do you take? 601 00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:13,279 Speaker 2: Fuck? I don't know. 602 00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:15,800 Speaker 3: I'm too tired. I'm fucking burning everything. 603 00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:17,920 Speaker 2: That's it. I'll give that. 604 00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:22,120 Speaker 1: Be more like David. Get a T shirt that says 605 00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:24,760 Speaker 1: that I will say goodbye a fair but thanks everyone,