Speaker 1: Okay a, welcome to Healthy Ish. Thanks for joining us
Speaker 1: on the podcast from Body and Soul. I am your
Speaker 1: host for listening, Haley, get this. A third of Ossie's
Speaker 1: feel stressed or anxious on a weekly basis, according to
Speaker 1: our recent Health of the Nation report. Is this you do?
Speaker 1: You fall into this group right now? Well, this is
Speaker 1: the episode for you. I'm joined by a psychiatrist and author,
Speaker 1: doctor Kieran Kennedy, and we're chatting all things stress, of course,
Speaker 1: what is healthy stress versus unhealthy stress, How to actually
Speaker 1: practice mental fitness habits rather than just thinking about them
Speaker 1: as many of us do, and whether we should turn
Speaker 1: to AI for help with our mental health. Kieren is
Speaker 1: going to help us make sense of all of the above,
Speaker 1: Doctor Kieren, welcome back.
Speaker 2: Hello, thank you for having me. It's so so nice
Speaker 2: to be back.
Speaker 1: As always, you're a regular now I think this is
Speaker 1: a friend of the pod as you as.
Speaker 2: You say, yeah, it's been a few times now, so
Speaker 2: it's so nice coming in and love having a chat
Speaker 2: with you guys. So thanks for you know, my key
Speaker 2: accent can't be too bad if you've had me back
Speaker 2: a few times now, So thank you.
Speaker 1: Well, I still forgive it, but then how are you
Speaker 1: staying healthy this year?
Speaker 2: Very good Christian. Lots of swims lately, which.
Speaker 1: Is just the time swimmer or an ocean swimmer.
Speaker 2: Ocean swimmer and definitely not like a ocean swim swoman,
Speaker 2: but you know, jumping in and you know, jumping off
Speaker 2: the wharf and stuff like that. Just yeah, down near
Speaker 2: Rose Bay and things. It's morning swims. It's just sets
Speaker 2: me up for an amazing day. So been loving that.
Speaker 1: It's amazing. How just refreshing and inspiring a swim in
Speaker 1: the morning, and you say, go down to well, that's
Speaker 1: the harbour side in the Sydney at Rose Bay and
Speaker 1: sometimes we have a pool and sometimes I'm jumping the
Speaker 1: pool with my kids, and I mean, I'd much prefer
Speaker 1: the ocean, but it's just so refreshing and such a
Speaker 1: great way to kick start your day.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know that plus.
Speaker 1: A coffee yeah, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: It's a perfect start. So I think that's been like
Speaker 2: a really nice little gratitude point for my staying healthy
Speaker 2: ish so far this Yeah, I like it.
Speaker 1: It's pretty impressive. Now let's talk about well some stats
Speaker 1: out of body and Soul's recent Health of the Nation report,
Speaker 1: one in four Australians are experiencing mental health challenges, with
Speaker 1: the mental health of those suffering getting worse. What are
Speaker 1: some of the common reasons you hear, you know, with
Speaker 1: your patients and just people around you. I mean you're
Speaker 1: in this space.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean a lot of varied ones, you know.
Speaker 2: I think important for people to know there can be
Speaker 2: so many reasons why we feel we're struggling. And I think,
Speaker 2: especially with society at the moment and the weight of
Speaker 2: the world in some ways at the moment, there's a
Speaker 2: lot going on to impact them into mouth potentially, you know.
Speaker 2: I think the busyness of modern life now is a
Speaker 2: big one that I hear, especially lately with my own patients,
Speaker 2: And I think it's juggling financial strains and work and
Speaker 2: families and kids and partners, and I think it's the
Speaker 2: sense often that we're left with very little time at
Speaker 2: the end of the day to actually maybe sometimes even
Speaker 2: stop and think about our mental health. So I think
Speaker 2: that kind of busy, chaotic convey about type way that
Speaker 2: modern life can feel at the moment, I think is
Speaker 2: a big contributor.
Speaker 1: I think that, I mean, I feel like that is
Speaker 1: just on point from what I'm hearing, you know, from listeners,
Speaker 1: from friends, from family members, like you just can't find
Speaker 1: the time to stop and drink that coffee. Yeah, you're
Speaker 1: like doing it while you're doing everything. And I often
Speaker 1: I've started to just notice that I'm always living in
Speaker 1: the future. So I'm always like, Okay, what am I
Speaker 1: doing tomorrow? What am I doing the next day? What's happening?
Speaker 1: And I'm like, I am failing to live right now.
Speaker 1: And I think that, I mean, it can affect your
Speaker 1: mental health. Another thing. Let's talk a bit about finances.
Speaker 1: One of the main reasons in the survey what people said,
Speaker 1: we're financial, Yeah that are you finding that more and
Speaker 1: moral or how does this plant your mental health?
Speaker 2: Absolutely? You know, and I think obviously the financial strains
Speaker 2: in terms of the prices, costs of things, someone suddenly
Speaker 2: get hit with an increase in their rent, you know,
Speaker 2: all of these things are significant parts of our lives
Speaker 2: in terms of you know, staying financially followed and managing
Speaker 2: our finances and things. And I think there's just more
Speaker 2: and more of the pointing into that for a lot
Speaker 2: of people in terms of that being a real stressful
Speaker 2: anxiety provoking, you know, difficult part of life, and it
Speaker 2: is something that can profoundly affect our mental health, I think,
Speaker 2: especially if we're talking about stress levels and anxiety, so
Speaker 2: that a big one, you know, and I've had more
Speaker 2: people talking about that, especially lately with inflation and everything,
Speaker 2: so it's a lot.
Speaker 1: Yeah, a third of Aussie's responded to saying they feel
Speaker 1: stressed or anxious on a weekly basis. This was interesting,
Speaker 1: And what I want to ask you is talk to
Speaker 1: us about healthy stress versus unhealthy stress, because I feel
Speaker 1: like there's a thin line and often you can think
Speaker 1: I'm really stressed, But am I to the point of
Speaker 1: where it is actually a concern or is it just
Speaker 1: normal because we should be stressed at some point.
Speaker 2: Which is totally yeah, and it can be you know,
Speaker 2: I think we can it's easy to gaslight ourselves a
Speaker 2: little bit in terms of like, well, am I any
Speaker 2: more stressed than the average person is? Or I'm stressed,
Speaker 2: but actually I've got half of the mental load that
Speaker 2: my neighbor does next door or my best friend does,
Speaker 2: and it can be really hard to kind of quantify
Speaker 2: that in our mind. And I guess it's just as
Speaker 2: you say, it's to point out that's some level of
Speaker 2: stress and anxiety, which can be closely related, is normal.
Speaker 2: It's adaptive, it's healthy in a way, whereas it can
Speaker 2: tick away and cross a line where it starts to
Speaker 2: become I guess what we call maladaptive and potentially negatively
Speaker 2: impawerful to our health and the line can you know,
Speaker 2: very doctorly response can look different for everyone, But I
Speaker 2: think in general, if we think about adaptive or healthy
Speaker 2: levels of stress in our day to day lives, there
Speaker 2: are a few key features. So normal or adaptive stress
Speaker 2: is often triggered to a specific situation or setting, and
Speaker 2: it's in keeping with the level of that situation. So
Speaker 2: if I miss the bus, I might feel stressed. But
Speaker 2: if I miss the bus, but then that flips me
Speaker 2: into having a panic attack and not being able to
Speaker 2: wind down for the rest of the day, that might
Speaker 2: be an example of something that's above sort of a
Speaker 2: justified trigger level for that stressor I guess the other
Speaker 2: place stress can become not so adaptive is when it's
Speaker 2: not short lived or contained to that stressful situation or
Speaker 2: that trigger point. So I think if people are finding
Speaker 2: that their stress and general anxiety levels are persistent or
Speaker 2: becoming maybe nearly constant, regardless of what's going on around them.
Speaker 2: If it feels like it's much higher, then maybe the
Speaker 2: setting or situation might call for adaptively, or if it's
Speaker 2: just starting to negatively impact things like our sleep, our
Speaker 2: mental health, our physical health, our relationships. Those are kind
Speaker 2: of key points to say, well, maybe this isn't an adaptive,
Speaker 2: helpful level of stress.
Speaker 1: That's a great example that the bus one. Yeah, like
Speaker 1: it's such a simple one, but you know, we can
Speaker 1: probably all identify a time in our lives where of
Speaker 1: just let it go and we're fine in a manner
Speaker 1: of half an hour whatever. But then other times in
Speaker 1: our life where that sets.
Speaker 2: Us off for the whole day, absolutely and just.
Speaker 1: Piles on top of everything else that's going on.
Speaker 2: Definitely, And I think when our general lives are a
Speaker 2: lot busier, we are more stressed in general, it can
Speaker 2: actually be easy for those levels of stress and triggering
Speaker 2: to start to really you know, snowball that way. You know,
Speaker 2: I think if everything's going well and we're well slept,
Speaker 2: and we're feeling motivated and happy and things are going well,
Speaker 2: if we miss the bus, we might be more prone
Speaker 2: to be like, well, that's annoying and I'm a bit
Speaker 2: stress because I'm going to miss the meeting, but fine,
Speaker 2: Whereas this is what it is generally juggling a lot
Speaker 2: in our lives, what's around us is more stressful, triggering,
Speaker 2: we're not coping so well understandably. That's where something like
Speaker 2: missing the bus can then start a bit of an
Speaker 2: avalanche for the rest of the day being really pretty
Speaker 2: stressful and difficult.
Speaker 1: The other thing I suppose in mine experience is that
Speaker 1: I often realize that I'm stressed in hindsight, so oh
Speaker 1: really yeah, Like even I'm sitting here right now, in
Speaker 1: the end of last year, I was very stressed, and
Speaker 1: I probably didn't appreciate that at the time, and then
Speaker 1: when I look back, I mean, my body reacts. I
Speaker 1: get z risis when I'm stressed. And how can we
Speaker 1: get better at realizing when we're in the moment rather
Speaker 1: than going, oh, yeah, the end of last year was
Speaker 1: actually really stressed.
Speaker 2: It was actually a full long time exactly. I mean
Speaker 2: it's tricky, because isn't it often It again comes down
Speaker 2: to that fact that we don't actually get a whole
Speaker 2: lot of moments in our day to day life for
Speaker 2: our week or our year to maybe actually stop and,
Speaker 2: you know, even if it sounds slightly naff or cliche,
Speaker 2: check in on ourselves, you know. So I think it's
Speaker 2: very easy to just sort of habituate to this level
Speaker 2: of feeling a certain way, stress included, and not actually
Speaker 2: having a moment to sort of stop and reflect and
Speaker 2: consider how am I feeling? Am I feeling quite stressed?
Speaker 2: Have I been really anxious this week? So little pockets
Speaker 2: of time to do that or to really check in
Speaker 2: with ourselves is an important part of managing stress and anxiety,
Speaker 2: because otherwise it's so easy to just kind of get
Speaker 2: whipped up into that snowball and to not even realize
Speaker 2: it's kind of rolling and getting pretty better.
Speaker 1: I like that idea of asking questions, asking yourself questions,
Speaker 1: always putting yourself, coming out of your body and asking yourself,
Speaker 1: you know. Am I like this where having those kind
Speaker 1: of a list of questions that you ask.
Speaker 2: Yourself absolutely, you know, And a lot about that with
Speaker 2: a lot of mental health and a lot of work
Speaker 2: with patients and things, whether it's struggling to focus because
Speaker 2: of ADHD or it's struggling with mood, its struggling with stress.
Speaker 2: That's often a key part of any aspect of supporting
Speaker 2: our mental health is first learning to kind of check
Speaker 2: in and almost be our own therapist in the opposite chair,
Speaker 2: to say, well, how am I actually doing in regard
Speaker 2: how am I feeling today? What has this week been like?
Speaker 2: Because it is very very easy. So don't worry if
Speaker 2: you're sitting there listening to this thinking, God, I need
Speaker 2: you do that. I try to, but you I understand.
Speaker 2: I have to be honest. I'm absolutely not perfect, and
Speaker 2: I also know what it feels like to have some
Speaker 2: weeks where it's just it feels chaotic and you're flying
Speaker 2: by the city of Pants and it's busy, and we
Speaker 2: get to the end of the word, we can thank
Speaker 2: God that I even stop and check in on how
Speaker 2: I'm feeling or doing this week. So it's I think
Speaker 2: it's normal. And it's also very easy, as we said,
Speaker 2: with the way modern life is at the moment, to
Speaker 2: fall into that.
Speaker 1: We back after this short break with more from Kieran. Now. Interestingly,
Speaker 1: the ways we safeguard our mental health according to the
Speaker 1: Health and Nation, weren't that surprising to me. Forty four
Speaker 1: percent of people will exercise thirty nine percent health focus
Speaker 1: on healthy eating. What I want to talk about, which
Speaker 1: I really like is thirty five percent. I suppose focus
Speaker 1: or do their hobbies and interests. I feel like, let's
Speaker 1: talk a bit bit about hobbies and interests. Is I
Speaker 1: feel like we don't actually focus about Yeah, focus on
Speaker 1: these enough and the importance of the way in which
Speaker 1: they can boost your mental well being.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I really loved this too, and I loved that
Speaker 2: the survey. You know, the Body and Soul team included
Speaker 2: the specifically in the survey because it is really important.
Speaker 2: And I agree we don't think about it that much
Speaker 2: when it comes to physical or mental health, but there
Speaker 2: is a lot of research and evidence around hobbies or
Speaker 2: activities or time just for the self and just being
Speaker 2: something that we do for the pure pleasure and enjoyment
Speaker 2: of it. There's a lot of research around those things
Speaker 2: being very protective when it comes to our mental health.
Speaker 2: And interestingly, when I saw that in the survey, I
Speaker 2: looked up what is the actual definition of a hobby?
Speaker 2: Is what actually is a hobby? And it said it's
Speaker 2: something that we regularly do in our own time that
Speaker 2: brings us pleasure. So again, it's this very I think
Speaker 2: at least empowering, protective way of thinking about making time
Speaker 2: for something that is just for us, you know. And
Speaker 2: I think hobbies, whether it's you know, painting, music, it's fitness, exercise, nature,
Speaker 2: whatever it might be for you, it dovetails into so
Speaker 2: many things that we know are so important and impactful
Speaker 2: for mental health, like joy and gratitude. We talk about
Speaker 2: flow states where we get lost and stuff.
Speaker 1: I was just going to say that. I was just thinking, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're in when you're doing your hobby, whatever it is,
Speaker 1: you just get lost, and the mental load or the
Speaker 1: whatever you're stressing over it, and just over it just
Speaker 1: kind of pauses one hundred where you enjoy that experience.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's so powerful and potentially impactful for our
Speaker 2: mental health. And the other thing that I really love
Speaker 2: when it comes to hobbies is we know there are
Speaker 2: things that so often connect to our hobby that are
Speaker 2: also beneficial for our mental health. And so if we
Speaker 2: think about hobbies as an example of a way to
Speaker 2: protect our mental health, I think we can think of
Speaker 2: it as a bit of a loading the table or
Speaker 2: stacking the deck. So if our hobby happens to include
Speaker 2: a social element. We know that that will be an
Speaker 2: additive booster. If it includes being outdoors, or it's physical
Speaker 2: with exercise, that's a booster. If it involves creativity, that
Speaker 2: is a boost. So in a way, I think we
Speaker 2: can think about hobbies as almost a way that we
Speaker 2: can kind of supercharge, yeah, things that can really benefit
Speaker 2: our mental health.
Speaker 1: Many of us are obviously aware of what we should
Speaker 1: be doing for mental health and fitness, whether it's doing
Speaker 1: our hobbies or going to the gym or whatever it is.
Speaker 1: Yet we don't do it, you know, yet when we're
Speaker 1: in that stress let's just call it the stress state, Yeah,
Speaker 1: we don't do it. We don't take time out, we
Speaker 1: just get caught up. Well a lot of the time
Speaker 1: we're actually busy, Yeah, we don't have time. Yeah yeah,
Speaker 1: But why do we struggle to do the things that
Speaker 1: we know are going to help us help our mental health.
Speaker 2: It's really fascinating because even for physical health, is decades,
Speaker 2: if not centuries of evidence now that even if our doctor,
Speaker 2: for example, gives us a treatment plan or a set
Speaker 2: of clear things we should do to help this physical
Speaker 2: or mental health condition. As a species, you know, we're
Speaker 2: actually pretty bad sometimes at actioning those things. So again,
Speaker 2: we're all in the similar boat here, and it can
Speaker 2: be really hard to action things that we know can
Speaker 2: benefit our health. But I think when it comes to
Speaker 2: mental health, there's a few things still stuck in the
Speaker 2: back of our mind. I think, at least when it
Speaker 2: comes to stereotypes and stigma, that makes it even more
Speaker 2: hard to action. I think if we think about actioning
Speaker 2: something to help our mental health because we're struggling, we
Speaker 2: then also in some part of our mind need to
Speaker 2: admit that we are stressed or struggling or not doing
Speaker 2: so well. And I think even subconsciously that's still quite
Speaker 2: hard because a lot of the time we do equate
Speaker 2: stress and struggling and mental health issues with not being
Speaker 2: able to hold all the balls. You know.
Speaker 1: I'm glad you point that out, because I feel like
Speaker 1: we've come so far in the mental health conversation, but
Speaker 1: there are but you still feel shame and like I
Speaker 1: can't do it, I'm not good enough. You know. You
Speaker 1: can go into this negative spiral one.
Speaker 2: Hundred, you know, and even if we don't consciously believe
Speaker 2: it or we know it's not true, there can still
Speaker 2: be this underlying sense of well everyone else seems to
Speaker 2: be coping and doing fine, and they're not freaking out
Speaker 2: or stressed or struggling. So why should I have to
Speaker 2: kind of meditate for ten minutes a day to help
Speaker 2: me manage this or make sure I do my hobby
Speaker 2: three times a week to help with my anxiety. So
Speaker 2: I think there can be this very normal, understandable, kind
Speaker 2: of even subconscious barrier to actioning some of these things,
Speaker 2: because it means we first need to acknowledge how we're
Speaker 2: feeling and that we might not be doing so well.
Speaker 2: So when it comes to actioning things for our mental health,
Speaker 2: that's quite powerful. And also, I think we've long had
Speaker 2: this viewpoint that we can action things to improve our
Speaker 2: physical health, like our diet, like going to the gym,
Speaker 2: like going for a walk, and so we've grown up
Speaker 2: with this understanding that we can change and influence our
Speaker 2: physical health. But for a long time, mental health or
Speaker 2: mental illness was seen as something that was kind of
Speaker 2: you know, either had it or you didn't, or if
Speaker 2: you struggled with it, it was because it must be
Speaker 2: a personal kind of flaw or faith. We're very slowly
Speaker 2: coming around to this idea of mental fitness being something
Speaker 2: that we can actually action things in our day to
Speaker 2: day lives to improve our mental.
Speaker 1: Health because we put in it will idea, at least
Speaker 1: put in the calendar what I'm going to do for
Speaker 1: my physical health, and I yet still don't put in
Speaker 1: the calendar what I'm going to do for my mental health.
Speaker 1: But I absolutely should, and I know I should, but
Speaker 1: I just I just don't.
Speaker 2: Absolutely. It's still, unfortunately kind of a little bit lower
Speaker 2: on the list for a lot of people. And when
Speaker 2: we add just juggling stuff with work and the kids
Speaker 2: and partners and all these other things, it's really easy
Speaker 2: for health and especially mental health to kind of just
Speaker 2: fall to the bottom of the list in terms of
Speaker 2: I should do that, or I will do that, or
Speaker 2: a meaning to do that. So it does take a
Speaker 2: lot of kind of mph to really pull it to
Speaker 2: the top of the list in then usual week.
Speaker 1: What are your thoughts on turning to AI for help
Speaker 1: with me to health?
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's quite a lot out there at the moment
Speaker 2: about this, which is super interesting.
Speaker 1: You've been on chat GTPE and put something in I have.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, you know, it's really interesting to ask it.
Speaker 1: Questions just what's your thoughts I mean, I.
Speaker 2: Think it's it's a bit of a double edged sword,
Speaker 2: and I think it can be and is really helpful.
Speaker 2: Dare I say it's probably slightly better than doctor Google
Speaker 2: in terms of just typing in do I have a
Speaker 2: brain tumor into Google? You know, I guess the AI
Speaker 2: is able to draw information and give a bit of
Speaker 2: a more nuanced specific answer. But again I think I
Speaker 2: guess the concern around it for doctors potentially is that
Speaker 2: at the moment at least, it's kind of just filtering
Speaker 2: a whole lot of them fo off the internet. It
Speaker 2: might not be giving us specific answers to our health needs.
Speaker 2: And also, as we know when we ask chat, GPT anything,
Speaker 2: it depends on the way we ask it and how
Speaker 2: we ask the question. So again I think if we're
Speaker 2: asking for specific health mental health advice, it could be
Speaker 2: very informative and potentially helpful, but we just have to
Speaker 2: be aware that at the moment at least it's not
Speaker 2: a replacement for if we have legitimate questions or concerns,
Speaker 2: you know, seeing your GP talk therapy. But even with
Speaker 2: loneliness and stuff, it's really interesting, Yeah.
Speaker 1: Because one in four Australians are experiencing loneliness.
Speaker 2: Yeah, which is I've seen even this week stuff about
Speaker 2: AI friends and AI partners and how that's filling a bit.
Speaker 1: Of a whole for loneliness, and again and what are
Speaker 1: your thoughts on that, well, I mean.
Speaker 2: I think positives and negatives in terms of I think
Speaker 2: if people are quite isolated, lonely, they struggle with real
Speaker 2: world meetings, I think it could be incredibly helpful to
Speaker 2: give a bit of a support point for people. But
Speaker 2: it's again remembering that there are certain ways that it
Speaker 2: might not be able to be the same.
Speaker 1: As a human seem to watch it develop over the
Speaker 1: next five to ten years and how it will exist
Speaker 1: and whether at the end of the day, you know,
Speaker 1: as humans, we've thrived for millions of years because of
Speaker 1: connection and that's what we need. So will the AI
Speaker 1: connection be able to well replace human connection? She knows
Speaker 1: what's space. We won't figure that out.
Speaker 2: I need a little bit long to figure that out. Now.
Speaker 1: One other thing that came up was asking for help.
Speaker 1: Seems to be a barrier in people when it comes
Speaker 1: to mental health. And this surprised me in some ways
Speaker 1: because I feel like there's a lot out there that
Speaker 1: you know, are you okay? Day? Like, there's a lot
Speaker 1: out there now encouraging people to put the hand up,
Speaker 1: but people are still struggling with this. How do we
Speaker 1: raise issues or things that we might be struggling with
Speaker 1: with or family or friends or whoever.
Speaker 2: Yeah, really interesting, and as you say, we've come a
Speaker 2: long way, Like, I think there's so much more out
Speaker 2: there about this now, and I think we're a lot
Speaker 2: more open compared to the past when it comes to
Speaker 2: talking about mental health and reaching out for help. But
Speaker 2: it's still a massive struggle. And I think if people
Speaker 2: are sitting there feeling like this has been difficult or
Speaker 2: is difficult for them, they're not alone because this is
Speaker 2: really kind of triggering deep difficult stuff. And to ask
Speaker 2: for help or talk about it, or even ask someone
Speaker 2: else about how they're doing it takes us first having
Speaker 2: to actually look at and acknowledge some often pretty uncomfortable,
Speaker 2: difficult feelings. And naturally that's just hard. And our brain,
Speaker 2: as Freud talked about, for better or worse, our brain
Speaker 2: is very good at throwing up a range of defense. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, mechanisms to protect us from that feeling. So
Speaker 2: I think you know, one of the ways to really
Speaker 2: work on it is to just work on acknowledging again
Speaker 2: what's there and how we're feeling, and checking in on
Speaker 2: ourselves around how we're doing. And then I think it's
Speaker 2: to know as well, whether whether one reaching out or
Speaker 2: whether one wanting to reach in to ask someone else
Speaker 2: that we're worried about. It's knowing that there's no right
Speaker 2: or wrong way to do it. You know, I talk
Speaker 2: to a lot of people who get very worried that
Speaker 2: they're going to say the wrong thing, not be able
Speaker 2: to explain it how they feel it, ask the wrong
Speaker 2: question make the person worse. But we know now just
Speaker 2: through experience but also research, that if we ask, however
Speaker 2: we ask, the outcomes and benefits for that person are
Speaker 2: far and away better than if we just didn't talk
Speaker 2: about it or ask at all. Other little tricks and
Speaker 2: tips are to lead with care and concern rather than
Speaker 2: noting things we've noticed. It's human nature to kind of
Speaker 2: try and explain what we're thinking and seeing and feeling
Speaker 2: by specific kind of things that we've observed. But it's
Speaker 2: more helpful if we're trying to talk about our mental
Speaker 2: healthful concerns to sort of talk about us being worried
Speaker 2: and concerned and how we're feeling, rather than again, if
Speaker 2: we're asking someone else rather than saying you've been off lately,
Speaker 2: or you've been quiet, or I've noticed you have been
Speaker 2: dropping the ball on this, that can obviously be quite triggering.
Speaker 2: And yeah, you know, make a bit of a defense.
Speaker 1: Which gets mindful of our language, lead.
Speaker 2: With kind of care and concern. And we might have
Speaker 2: touched on it in the past actually as well. But
Speaker 2: you know, I love this idea of like a chat
Speaker 2: lap or like diffusing some of the intensity. So one
Speaker 2: of the things that I talk to patients and family
Speaker 2: members are patients about is just generating a talk around
Speaker 2: mental health and feelings and life and stress when we
Speaker 2: might also be doing something else. So it might be
Speaker 2: on a drive in the car, you know, the whole
Speaker 2: car therapy type thing with our friends.
Speaker 1: I love that, kids.
Speaker 2: It's a real thing for a reason. So it might
Speaker 2: be in the car, it might be over the dishes,
Speaker 2: it might be while we're doing something in the backyard.
Speaker 2: We actually know, even just neurologically, that things can flow
Speaker 2: and come better doing something. It diffuses it a bit.
Speaker 1: Actually, my one of my sons said to me the
Speaker 1: other day it was either tom my husband or I
Speaker 1: pick hm up from school. It's like, oh, Mom, can
Speaker 1: you pick me up? Because we have a good chat
Speaker 1: in the car. And then I actually made a mental
Speaker 1: note of I'm going to pick you up once a
Speaker 1: week now so we can have a chat because that's
Speaker 1: our space.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's it is, and god, that's so beautiful.
Speaker 2: But like you say, it's just the car is like
Speaker 2: a it's almost protected time. We don't have other people
Speaker 2: coming in, rushing in and out. And it's also you know,
Speaker 2: because there are even just some background things to hold
Speaker 2: elements of our attention. Otherwise, it often makes it easier
Speaker 2: to talk, especially about kind of bigger, deeper emotional type
Speaker 2: things because in some ways we're kind of and you're.
Speaker 1: Not looking people straight in the eyes.
Speaker 2: Side or there's radio in the background. We can look
Speaker 2: at other cars as we're driving.
Speaker 1: Now, just quickly before we go. We know what you
Speaker 1: do for your hobbies. How do you safeguard your mental health?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I think I mean again fits with the hobby
Speaker 2: in a way for me. You know, exercise in the
Speaker 2: gym is just if I've had a really full on
Speaker 2: day with patients, you know, or it's been a stressful week.
Speaker 2: Even if I feel like I am dragging myself in there,
Speaker 2: I very rarely have a workout or an exercise session
Speaker 2: where I don't come out of that feeling so much
Speaker 2: more relaxed and kind of having discharged things. Probably the
Speaker 2: other way I look after my mental health is no surprise.
Speaker 2: But I've always been a bit of a sharer, a
Speaker 2: bit of a talker, you know. And I guess it's
Speaker 2: also lucky in terms of I've had friends and family
Speaker 2: to just discharge things to a little bit, you know.
Speaker 2: And I think we underestimate even if we're sending a
Speaker 2: meme to a mate about you know, the day being
Speaker 2: like a hurricane or you know. I think even those
Speaker 2: tiny little touch points of just checking them with someone
Speaker 2: and then having them shoot.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like just one simple text can actually just boost you.
Speaker 1: If you're just feeling like shit.
Speaker 2: And it's been a stressful day and we're feeling like shit,
Speaker 2: we underestimate. I think how just that little check in
Speaker 2: or that little text, that meme, that little laugh with
Speaker 2: a friend can kind of really diffuse things. And so
Speaker 2: I think for me, you know, for better or worse,
Speaker 2: my family and best mates know that I'm kind of
Speaker 2: a near constant yeah, text, the communication and stuff, so
Speaker 2: it's I think that is also if I reflect on
Speaker 2: it a way for me that I really kind of
Speaker 2: just buffer any stresses or difficult days and kind of
Speaker 2: look after my mental health as well. Send a text, yep, send.
Speaker 1: Them me, Karen, thanks for coming back on healthy.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1: How do you safeguard your mental health? What's your list?
Speaker 1: Do you actually action it? I hope this episode has
Speaker 1: inspired you to do it, just at least one thing
Speaker 1: on the list, because you know you'll feel better afterwards.
Speaker 1: It's that run so hard to get out the door,
Speaker 1: but once you do it, you feel amazing. Have you
Speaker 1: come across our Health of the Nation Challenge? Yes, we
Speaker 1: have joined up with the kick app to offer you
Speaker 1: one month free access to the app. It is a
Speaker 1: four week challenge design to get you moving with Steph
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Speaker 1: on board. There's something for everyone. We'll leave a link
Speaker 1: to this in the show notes. Now tell us what
Speaker 1: you thought of this chat, Share with a friend. You
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Speaker 1: in your local Sunday paper, and of course stay healthy.