1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,720 Speaker 1: Okay a, welcome to Healthy Ish. Thanks for joining us 2 00:00:02,759 --> 00:00:05,240 Speaker 1: on the podcast from Body and Soul. I am your 3 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: host for listening, Haley, get this. A third of Ossie's 4 00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:13,400 Speaker 1: feel stressed or anxious on a weekly basis, according to 5 00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:18,159 Speaker 1: our recent Health of the Nation report. Is this you do? 6 00:00:18,239 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 1: You fall into this group right now? Well, this is 7 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:24,520 Speaker 1: the episode for you. I'm joined by a psychiatrist and author, 8 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:28,920 Speaker 1: doctor Kieran Kennedy, and we're chatting all things stress, of course, 9 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:33,519 Speaker 1: what is healthy stress versus unhealthy stress, How to actually 10 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:38,520 Speaker 1: practice mental fitness habits rather than just thinking about them 11 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:40,400 Speaker 1: as many of us do, and whether we should turn 12 00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:43,680 Speaker 1: to AI for help with our mental health. Kieren is 13 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:46,960 Speaker 1: going to help us make sense of all of the above, 14 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:03,480 Speaker 1: Doctor Kieren, welcome back. 15 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:05,920 Speaker 2: Hello, thank you for having me. It's so so nice 16 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:06,280 Speaker 2: to be back. 17 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 1: As always, you're a regular now I think this is 18 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:11,920 Speaker 1: a friend of the pod as you as. 19 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:14,840 Speaker 2: You say, yeah, it's been a few times now, so 20 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:17,400 Speaker 2: it's so nice coming in and love having a chat 21 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:19,960 Speaker 2: with you guys. So thanks for you know, my key 22 00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:21,800 Speaker 2: accent can't be too bad if you've had me back 23 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:23,040 Speaker 2: a few times now, So thank you. 24 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:25,920 Speaker 1: Well, I still forgive it, but then how are you 25 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:27,119 Speaker 1: staying healthy this year? 26 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:31,200 Speaker 2: Very good Christian. Lots of swims lately, which. 27 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:34,440 Speaker 1: Is just the time swimmer or an ocean swimmer. 28 00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 2: Ocean swimmer and definitely not like a ocean swim swoman, 29 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:42,880 Speaker 2: but you know, jumping in and you know, jumping off 30 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:46,440 Speaker 2: the wharf and stuff like that. Just yeah, down near 31 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:49,800 Speaker 2: Rose Bay and things. It's morning swims. It's just sets 32 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 2: me up for an amazing day. So been loving that. 33 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 1: It's amazing. How just refreshing and inspiring a swim in 34 00:01:57,320 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 1: the morning, and you say, go down to well, that's 35 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:01,960 Speaker 1: the harbour side in the Sydney at Rose Bay and 36 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 1: sometimes we have a pool and sometimes I'm jumping the 37 00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 1: pool with my kids, and I mean, I'd much prefer 38 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:10,800 Speaker 1: the ocean, but it's just so refreshing and such a 39 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:12,239 Speaker 1: great way to kick start your day. 40 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:14,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know that plus. 41 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:18,040 Speaker 1: A coffee yeah, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 42 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 2: It's a perfect start. So I think that's been like 43 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:23,160 Speaker 2: a really nice little gratitude point for my staying healthy 44 00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:24,799 Speaker 2: ish so far this Yeah, I like it. 45 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:29,080 Speaker 1: It's pretty impressive. Now let's talk about well some stats 46 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:31,960 Speaker 1: out of body and Soul's recent Health of the Nation report, 47 00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:36,680 Speaker 1: one in four Australians are experiencing mental health challenges, with 48 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:40,840 Speaker 1: the mental health of those suffering getting worse. What are 49 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:43,840 Speaker 1: some of the common reasons you hear, you know, with 50 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:46,720 Speaker 1: your patients and just people around you. I mean you're 51 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:47,960 Speaker 1: in this space. 52 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:50,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean a lot of varied ones, you know. 53 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:53,280 Speaker 2: I think important for people to know there can be 54 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:56,000 Speaker 2: so many reasons why we feel we're struggling. And I think, 55 00:02:56,080 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 2: especially with society at the moment and the weight of 56 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:01,360 Speaker 2: the world in some ways at the moment, there's a 57 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:05,320 Speaker 2: lot going on to impact them into mouth potentially, you know. 58 00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:09,760 Speaker 2: I think the busyness of modern life now is a 59 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:12,840 Speaker 2: big one that I hear, especially lately with my own patients, 60 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 2: And I think it's juggling financial strains and work and 61 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:21,880 Speaker 2: families and kids and partners, and I think it's the 62 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 2: sense often that we're left with very little time at 63 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:27,920 Speaker 2: the end of the day to actually maybe sometimes even 64 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:30,520 Speaker 2: stop and think about our mental health. So I think 65 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:36,240 Speaker 2: that kind of busy, chaotic convey about type way that 66 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:38,520 Speaker 2: modern life can feel at the moment, I think is 67 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:39,480 Speaker 2: a big contributor. 68 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:41,800 Speaker 1: I think that, I mean, I feel like that is 69 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:44,960 Speaker 1: just on point from what I'm hearing, you know, from listeners, 70 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 1: from friends, from family members, like you just can't find 71 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:52,400 Speaker 1: the time to stop and drink that coffee. Yeah, you're 72 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:55,840 Speaker 1: like doing it while you're doing everything. And I often 73 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:59,320 Speaker 1: I've started to just notice that I'm always living in 74 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 1: the future. So I'm always like, Okay, what am I 75 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:04,160 Speaker 1: doing tomorrow? What am I doing the next day? What's happening? 76 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:07,119 Speaker 1: And I'm like, I am failing to live right now. 77 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:10,120 Speaker 1: And I think that, I mean, it can affect your 78 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:12,920 Speaker 1: mental health. Another thing. Let's talk a bit about finances. 79 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:16,760 Speaker 1: One of the main reasons in the survey what people said, 80 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:20,120 Speaker 1: we're financial, Yeah that are you finding that more and 81 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:22,599 Speaker 1: moral or how does this plant your mental health? 82 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:26,960 Speaker 2: Absolutely? You know, and I think obviously the financial strains 83 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:30,240 Speaker 2: in terms of the prices, costs of things, someone suddenly 84 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:33,040 Speaker 2: get hit with an increase in their rent, you know, 85 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:37,360 Speaker 2: all of these things are significant parts of our lives 86 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:40,239 Speaker 2: in terms of you know, staying financially followed and managing 87 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:42,960 Speaker 2: our finances and things. And I think there's just more 88 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:45,800 Speaker 2: and more of the pointing into that for a lot 89 00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:48,840 Speaker 2: of people in terms of that being a real stressful 90 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:53,320 Speaker 2: anxiety provoking, you know, difficult part of life, and it 91 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 2: is something that can profoundly affect our mental health, I think, 92 00:04:56,520 --> 00:04:59,200 Speaker 2: especially if we're talking about stress levels and anxiety, so 93 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:01,600 Speaker 2: that a big one, you know, and I've had more 94 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:05,440 Speaker 2: people talking about that, especially lately with inflation and everything, 95 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:06,360 Speaker 2: so it's a lot. 96 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:09,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, a third of Aussie's responded to saying they feel 97 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:13,560 Speaker 1: stressed or anxious on a weekly basis. This was interesting, 98 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 1: And what I want to ask you is talk to 99 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:20,799 Speaker 1: us about healthy stress versus unhealthy stress, because I feel 100 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:24,360 Speaker 1: like there's a thin line and often you can think 101 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:27,200 Speaker 1: I'm really stressed, But am I to the point of 102 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:29,599 Speaker 1: where it is actually a concern or is it just 103 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:32,280 Speaker 1: normal because we should be stressed at some point. 104 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:34,359 Speaker 2: Which is totally yeah, and it can be you know, 105 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:36,760 Speaker 2: I think we can it's easy to gaslight ourselves a 106 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 2: little bit in terms of like, well, am I any 107 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:43,800 Speaker 2: more stressed than the average person is? Or I'm stressed, 108 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:47,560 Speaker 2: but actually I've got half of the mental load that 109 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:50,360 Speaker 2: my neighbor does next door or my best friend does, 110 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:53,000 Speaker 2: and it can be really hard to kind of quantify 111 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:55,200 Speaker 2: that in our mind. And I guess it's just as 112 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:57,640 Speaker 2: you say, it's to point out that's some level of 113 00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:01,360 Speaker 2: stress and anxiety, which can be closely related, is normal. 114 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:04,800 Speaker 2: It's adaptive, it's healthy in a way, whereas it can 115 00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:07,520 Speaker 2: tick away and cross a line where it starts to 116 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:11,640 Speaker 2: become I guess what we call maladaptive and potentially negatively 117 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:15,000 Speaker 2: impawerful to our health and the line can you know, 118 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:18,719 Speaker 2: very doctorly response can look different for everyone, But I 119 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:22,040 Speaker 2: think in general, if we think about adaptive or healthy 120 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:24,720 Speaker 2: levels of stress in our day to day lives, there 121 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 2: are a few key features. So normal or adaptive stress 122 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 2: is often triggered to a specific situation or setting, and 123 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:36,960 Speaker 2: it's in keeping with the level of that situation. So 124 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:41,839 Speaker 2: if I miss the bus, I might feel stressed. But 125 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:44,359 Speaker 2: if I miss the bus, but then that flips me 126 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:46,919 Speaker 2: into having a panic attack and not being able to 127 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:48,800 Speaker 2: wind down for the rest of the day, that might 128 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:51,440 Speaker 2: be an example of something that's above sort of a 129 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:54,920 Speaker 2: justified trigger level for that stressor I guess the other 130 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:58,839 Speaker 2: place stress can become not so adaptive is when it's 131 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:04,000 Speaker 2: not short lived or contained to that stressful situation or 132 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:06,599 Speaker 2: that trigger point. So I think if people are finding 133 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:11,320 Speaker 2: that their stress and general anxiety levels are persistent or 134 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:15,440 Speaker 2: becoming maybe nearly constant, regardless of what's going on around them. 135 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 2: If it feels like it's much higher, then maybe the 136 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:23,560 Speaker 2: setting or situation might call for adaptively, or if it's 137 00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 2: just starting to negatively impact things like our sleep, our 138 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:30,960 Speaker 2: mental health, our physical health, our relationships. Those are kind 139 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:34,000 Speaker 2: of key points to say, well, maybe this isn't an adaptive, 140 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:35,680 Speaker 2: helpful level of stress. 141 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:38,280 Speaker 1: That's a great example that the bus one. Yeah, like 142 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:40,760 Speaker 1: it's such a simple one, but you know, we can 143 00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:42,840 Speaker 1: probably all identify a time in our lives where of 144 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 1: just let it go and we're fine in a manner 145 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:48,840 Speaker 1: of half an hour whatever. But then other times in 146 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:50,480 Speaker 1: our life where that sets. 147 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:52,040 Speaker 2: Us off for the whole day, absolutely and just. 148 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:53,720 Speaker 1: Piles on top of everything else that's going on. 149 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:56,600 Speaker 2: Definitely, And I think when our general lives are a 150 00:07:56,640 --> 00:07:59,560 Speaker 2: lot busier, we are more stressed in general, it can 151 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:02,960 Speaker 2: actually be easy for those levels of stress and triggering 152 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 2: to start to really you know, snowball that way. You know, 153 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:09,480 Speaker 2: I think if everything's going well and we're well slept, 154 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:12,520 Speaker 2: and we're feeling motivated and happy and things are going well, 155 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:14,320 Speaker 2: if we miss the bus, we might be more prone 156 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:16,160 Speaker 2: to be like, well, that's annoying and I'm a bit 157 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:18,240 Speaker 2: stress because I'm going to miss the meeting, but fine, 158 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:21,240 Speaker 2: Whereas this is what it is generally juggling a lot 159 00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:24,560 Speaker 2: in our lives, what's around us is more stressful, triggering, 160 00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:28,320 Speaker 2: we're not coping so well understandably. That's where something like 161 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:31,200 Speaker 2: missing the bus can then start a bit of an 162 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:33,560 Speaker 2: avalanche for the rest of the day being really pretty 163 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:34,840 Speaker 2: stressful and difficult. 164 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:38,520 Speaker 1: The other thing I suppose in mine experience is that 165 00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:44,120 Speaker 1: I often realize that I'm stressed in hindsight, so oh 166 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:47,120 Speaker 1: really yeah, Like even I'm sitting here right now, in 167 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:49,280 Speaker 1: the end of last year, I was very stressed, and 168 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:51,840 Speaker 1: I probably didn't appreciate that at the time, and then 169 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:53,840 Speaker 1: when I look back, I mean, my body reacts. I 170 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:57,280 Speaker 1: get z risis when I'm stressed. And how can we 171 00:08:57,320 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 1: get better at realizing when we're in the moment rather 172 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 1: than going, oh, yeah, the end of last year was 173 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:02,199 Speaker 1: actually really stressed. 174 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:05,480 Speaker 2: It was actually a full long time exactly. I mean 175 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 2: it's tricky, because isn't it often It again comes down 176 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:10,240 Speaker 2: to that fact that we don't actually get a whole 177 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:13,160 Speaker 2: lot of moments in our day to day life for 178 00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:17,520 Speaker 2: our week or our year to maybe actually stop and, 179 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:20,760 Speaker 2: you know, even if it sounds slightly naff or cliche, 180 00:09:21,040 --> 00:09:23,280 Speaker 2: check in on ourselves, you know. So I think it's 181 00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:26,240 Speaker 2: very easy to just sort of habituate to this level 182 00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:30,199 Speaker 2: of feeling a certain way, stress included, and not actually 183 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:33,360 Speaker 2: having a moment to sort of stop and reflect and 184 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:37,240 Speaker 2: consider how am I feeling? Am I feeling quite stressed? 185 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:41,120 Speaker 2: Have I been really anxious this week? So little pockets 186 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 2: of time to do that or to really check in 187 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:47,920 Speaker 2: with ourselves is an important part of managing stress and anxiety, 188 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:51,240 Speaker 2: because otherwise it's so easy to just kind of get 189 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:53,840 Speaker 2: whipped up into that snowball and to not even realize 190 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:55,520 Speaker 2: it's kind of rolling and getting pretty better. 191 00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:58,880 Speaker 1: I like that idea of asking questions, asking yourself questions, 192 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:03,000 Speaker 1: always putting yourself, coming out of your body and asking yourself, 193 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:06,080 Speaker 1: you know. Am I like this where having those kind 194 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:07,679 Speaker 1: of a list of questions that you ask. 195 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:10,920 Speaker 2: Yourself absolutely, you know, And a lot about that with 196 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:12,800 Speaker 2: a lot of mental health and a lot of work 197 00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:16,520 Speaker 2: with patients and things, whether it's struggling to focus because 198 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:19,920 Speaker 2: of ADHD or it's struggling with mood, its struggling with stress. 199 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:23,840 Speaker 2: That's often a key part of any aspect of supporting 200 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:26,840 Speaker 2: our mental health is first learning to kind of check 201 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:30,840 Speaker 2: in and almost be our own therapist in the opposite chair, 202 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:34,319 Speaker 2: to say, well, how am I actually doing in regard 203 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:38,200 Speaker 2: how am I feeling today? What has this week been like? 204 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:41,240 Speaker 2: Because it is very very easy. So don't worry if 205 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:43,360 Speaker 2: you're sitting there listening to this thinking, God, I need 206 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:47,280 Speaker 2: you do that. I try to, but you I understand. 207 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:50,960 Speaker 2: I have to be honest. I'm absolutely not perfect, and 208 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:54,319 Speaker 2: I also know what it feels like to have some 209 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:57,079 Speaker 2: weeks where it's just it feels chaotic and you're flying 210 00:10:57,120 --> 00:10:59,240 Speaker 2: by the city of Pants and it's busy, and we 211 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:00,600 Speaker 2: get to the end of the word, we can thank 212 00:11:00,679 --> 00:11:03,719 Speaker 2: God that I even stop and check in on how 213 00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:06,640 Speaker 2: I'm feeling or doing this week. So it's I think 214 00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:10,040 Speaker 2: it's normal. And it's also very easy, as we said, 215 00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:12,200 Speaker 2: with the way modern life is at the moment, to 216 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:12,959 Speaker 2: fall into that. 217 00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:19,679 Speaker 1: We back after this short break with more from Kieran. Now. Interestingly, 218 00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:23,280 Speaker 1: the ways we safeguard our mental health according to the 219 00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:27,280 Speaker 1: Health and Nation, weren't that surprising to me. Forty four 220 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:30,920 Speaker 1: percent of people will exercise thirty nine percent health focus 221 00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:34,400 Speaker 1: on healthy eating. What I want to talk about, which 222 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:37,640 Speaker 1: I really like is thirty five percent. I suppose focus 223 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:42,200 Speaker 1: or do their hobbies and interests. I feel like, let's 224 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:44,080 Speaker 1: talk a bit bit about hobbies and interests. Is I 225 00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:46,600 Speaker 1: feel like we don't actually focus about Yeah, focus on 226 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 1: these enough and the importance of the way in which 227 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:50,920 Speaker 1: they can boost your mental well being. 228 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:53,720 Speaker 2: Yeah. I really loved this too, and I loved that 229 00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:56,720 Speaker 2: the survey. You know, the Body and Soul team included 230 00:11:56,720 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 2: the specifically in the survey because it is really important. 231 00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:02,800 Speaker 2: And I agree we don't think about it that much 232 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:06,640 Speaker 2: when it comes to physical or mental health, but there 233 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:10,839 Speaker 2: is a lot of research and evidence around hobbies or 234 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:16,720 Speaker 2: activities or time just for the self and just being 235 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:20,440 Speaker 2: something that we do for the pure pleasure and enjoyment 236 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:23,200 Speaker 2: of it. There's a lot of research around those things 237 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:27,000 Speaker 2: being very protective when it comes to our mental health. 238 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:30,400 Speaker 2: And interestingly, when I saw that in the survey, I 239 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:33,079 Speaker 2: looked up what is the actual definition of a hobby? 240 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:35,480 Speaker 2: Is what actually is a hobby? And it said it's 241 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:39,240 Speaker 2: something that we regularly do in our own time that 242 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:43,320 Speaker 2: brings us pleasure. So again, it's this very I think 243 00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:47,960 Speaker 2: at least empowering, protective way of thinking about making time 244 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:53,160 Speaker 2: for something that is just for us, you know. And 245 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:59,760 Speaker 2: I think hobbies, whether it's you know, painting, music, it's fitness, exercise, nature, 246 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:04,360 Speaker 2: whatever it might be for you, it dovetails into so 247 00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:08,079 Speaker 2: many things that we know are so important and impactful 248 00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:12,040 Speaker 2: for mental health, like joy and gratitude. We talk about 249 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:14,160 Speaker 2: flow states where we get lost and stuff. 250 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:16,600 Speaker 1: I was just going to say that. I was just thinking, Yeah, 251 00:13:16,679 --> 00:13:18,960 Speaker 1: you're in when you're doing your hobby, whatever it is, 252 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:21,280 Speaker 1: you just get lost, and the mental load or the 253 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:25,439 Speaker 1: whatever you're stressing over it, and just over it just 254 00:13:25,559 --> 00:13:28,479 Speaker 1: kind of pauses one hundred where you enjoy that experience. 255 00:13:28,559 --> 00:13:32,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's so powerful and potentially impactful for our 256 00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:35,360 Speaker 2: mental health. And the other thing that I really love 257 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:38,120 Speaker 2: when it comes to hobbies is we know there are 258 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:42,600 Speaker 2: things that so often connect to our hobby that are 259 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:45,360 Speaker 2: also beneficial for our mental health. And so if we 260 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:47,559 Speaker 2: think about hobbies as an example of a way to 261 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 2: protect our mental health, I think we can think of 262 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:52,440 Speaker 2: it as a bit of a loading the table or 263 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:56,600 Speaker 2: stacking the deck. So if our hobby happens to include 264 00:13:56,600 --> 00:13:58,839 Speaker 2: a social element. We know that that will be an 265 00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:02,640 Speaker 2: additive booster. If it includes being outdoors, or it's physical 266 00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:06,720 Speaker 2: with exercise, that's a booster. If it involves creativity, that 267 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:09,120 Speaker 2: is a boost. So in a way, I think we 268 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:11,120 Speaker 2: can think about hobbies as almost a way that we 269 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:14,199 Speaker 2: can kind of supercharge, yeah, things that can really benefit 270 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:15,040 Speaker 2: our mental health. 271 00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:17,240 Speaker 1: Many of us are obviously aware of what we should 272 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:20,040 Speaker 1: be doing for mental health and fitness, whether it's doing 273 00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:22,040 Speaker 1: our hobbies or going to the gym or whatever it is. 274 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:24,920 Speaker 1: Yet we don't do it, you know, yet when we're 275 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:28,440 Speaker 1: in that stress let's just call it the stress state, Yeah, 276 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 1: we don't do it. We don't take time out, we 277 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:32,880 Speaker 1: just get caught up. Well a lot of the time 278 00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:37,480 Speaker 1: we're actually busy, Yeah, we don't have time. Yeah yeah, 279 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:39,800 Speaker 1: But why do we struggle to do the things that 280 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:43,200 Speaker 1: we know are going to help us help our mental health. 281 00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:47,680 Speaker 2: It's really fascinating because even for physical health, is decades, 282 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:51,440 Speaker 2: if not centuries of evidence now that even if our doctor, 283 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:53,760 Speaker 2: for example, gives us a treatment plan or a set 284 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:56,360 Speaker 2: of clear things we should do to help this physical 285 00:14:56,440 --> 00:15:00,760 Speaker 2: or mental health condition. As a species, you know, we're 286 00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:05,200 Speaker 2: actually pretty bad sometimes at actioning those things. So again, 287 00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:07,280 Speaker 2: we're all in the similar boat here, and it can 288 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:09,360 Speaker 2: be really hard to action things that we know can 289 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:11,760 Speaker 2: benefit our health. But I think when it comes to 290 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:15,040 Speaker 2: mental health, there's a few things still stuck in the 291 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:16,880 Speaker 2: back of our mind. I think, at least when it 292 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:20,200 Speaker 2: comes to stereotypes and stigma, that makes it even more 293 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:23,400 Speaker 2: hard to action. I think if we think about actioning 294 00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:26,920 Speaker 2: something to help our mental health because we're struggling, we 295 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:29,200 Speaker 2: then also in some part of our mind need to 296 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:32,440 Speaker 2: admit that we are stressed or struggling or not doing 297 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:35,520 Speaker 2: so well. And I think even subconsciously that's still quite 298 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:37,640 Speaker 2: hard because a lot of the time we do equate 299 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:41,400 Speaker 2: stress and struggling and mental health issues with not being 300 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:43,640 Speaker 2: able to hold all the balls. You know. 301 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:46,640 Speaker 1: I'm glad you point that out, because I feel like 302 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:48,800 Speaker 1: we've come so far in the mental health conversation, but 303 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:52,200 Speaker 1: there are but you still feel shame and like I 304 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:54,280 Speaker 1: can't do it, I'm not good enough. You know. You 305 00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:56,120 Speaker 1: can go into this negative spiral one. 306 00:15:56,120 --> 00:15:59,160 Speaker 2: Hundred, you know, and even if we don't consciously believe 307 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:01,160 Speaker 2: it or we know it's not true, there can still 308 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:04,360 Speaker 2: be this underlying sense of well everyone else seems to 309 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:07,240 Speaker 2: be coping and doing fine, and they're not freaking out 310 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:11,160 Speaker 2: or stressed or struggling. So why should I have to 311 00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:14,080 Speaker 2: kind of meditate for ten minutes a day to help 312 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:17,040 Speaker 2: me manage this or make sure I do my hobby 313 00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:19,920 Speaker 2: three times a week to help with my anxiety. So 314 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:22,760 Speaker 2: I think there can be this very normal, understandable, kind 315 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:26,400 Speaker 2: of even subconscious barrier to actioning some of these things, 316 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:29,560 Speaker 2: because it means we first need to acknowledge how we're 317 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:31,720 Speaker 2: feeling and that we might not be doing so well. 318 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:35,160 Speaker 2: So when it comes to actioning things for our mental health, 319 00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:39,400 Speaker 2: that's quite powerful. And also, I think we've long had 320 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:42,280 Speaker 2: this viewpoint that we can action things to improve our 321 00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:45,160 Speaker 2: physical health, like our diet, like going to the gym, 322 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:48,240 Speaker 2: like going for a walk, and so we've grown up 323 00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:52,200 Speaker 2: with this understanding that we can change and influence our 324 00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:55,960 Speaker 2: physical health. But for a long time, mental health or 325 00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:58,560 Speaker 2: mental illness was seen as something that was kind of 326 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:01,560 Speaker 2: you know, either had it or you didn't, or if 327 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:04,000 Speaker 2: you struggled with it, it was because it must be 328 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 2: a personal kind of flaw or faith. We're very slowly 329 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:11,359 Speaker 2: coming around to this idea of mental fitness being something 330 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:14,359 Speaker 2: that we can actually action things in our day to 331 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:16,160 Speaker 2: day lives to improve our mental. 332 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:18,440 Speaker 1: Health because we put in it will idea, at least 333 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:20,560 Speaker 1: put in the calendar what I'm going to do for 334 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:23,240 Speaker 1: my physical health, and I yet still don't put in 335 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:24,760 Speaker 1: the calendar what I'm going to do for my mental health. 336 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:26,560 Speaker 1: But I absolutely should, and I know I should, but 337 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:27,879 Speaker 1: I just I just don't. 338 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:31,840 Speaker 2: Absolutely. It's still, unfortunately kind of a little bit lower 339 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:33,640 Speaker 2: on the list for a lot of people. And when 340 00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:37,280 Speaker 2: we add just juggling stuff with work and the kids 341 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:40,760 Speaker 2: and partners and all these other things, it's really easy 342 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:43,639 Speaker 2: for health and especially mental health to kind of just 343 00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:46,200 Speaker 2: fall to the bottom of the list in terms of 344 00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:48,040 Speaker 2: I should do that, or I will do that, or 345 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:51,199 Speaker 2: a meaning to do that. So it does take a 346 00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:54,879 Speaker 2: lot of kind of mph to really pull it to 347 00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:56,640 Speaker 2: the top of the list in then usual week. 348 00:17:56,880 --> 00:17:59,600 Speaker 1: What are your thoughts on turning to AI for help 349 00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:00,600 Speaker 1: with me to health? 350 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:03,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, there's quite a lot out there at the moment 351 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:05,040 Speaker 2: about this, which is super interesting. 352 00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:08,199 Speaker 1: You've been on chat GTPE and put something in I have. 353 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:10,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, you know, it's really interesting to ask it. 354 00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:13,480 Speaker 1: Questions just what's your thoughts I mean, I. 355 00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:15,720 Speaker 2: Think it's it's a bit of a double edged sword, 356 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:18,680 Speaker 2: and I think it can be and is really helpful. 357 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:22,800 Speaker 2: Dare I say it's probably slightly better than doctor Google 358 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:24,960 Speaker 2: in terms of just typing in do I have a 359 00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:28,240 Speaker 2: brain tumor into Google? You know, I guess the AI 360 00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:31,080 Speaker 2: is able to draw information and give a bit of 361 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:35,760 Speaker 2: a more nuanced specific answer. But again I think I 362 00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:39,959 Speaker 2: guess the concern around it for doctors potentially is that 363 00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:43,960 Speaker 2: at the moment at least, it's kind of just filtering 364 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:45,840 Speaker 2: a whole lot of them fo off the internet. It 365 00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:49,639 Speaker 2: might not be giving us specific answers to our health needs. 366 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:52,960 Speaker 2: And also, as we know when we ask chat, GPT anything, 367 00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:55,520 Speaker 2: it depends on the way we ask it and how 368 00:18:55,560 --> 00:18:58,520 Speaker 2: we ask the question. So again I think if we're 369 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:02,560 Speaker 2: asking for specific health mental health advice, it could be 370 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:05,800 Speaker 2: very informative and potentially helpful, but we just have to 371 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:08,119 Speaker 2: be aware that at the moment at least it's not 372 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:11,720 Speaker 2: a replacement for if we have legitimate questions or concerns, 373 00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:16,240 Speaker 2: you know, seeing your GP talk therapy. But even with 374 00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:18,639 Speaker 2: loneliness and stuff, it's really interesting, Yeah. 375 00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:22,240 Speaker 1: Because one in four Australians are experiencing loneliness. 376 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:25,439 Speaker 2: Yeah, which is I've seen even this week stuff about 377 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:29,760 Speaker 2: AI friends and AI partners and how that's filling a bit. 378 00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:32,760 Speaker 1: Of a whole for loneliness, and again and what are 379 00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:34,520 Speaker 1: your thoughts on that, well, I mean. 380 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:36,920 Speaker 2: I think positives and negatives in terms of I think 381 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:41,359 Speaker 2: if people are quite isolated, lonely, they struggle with real 382 00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:44,240 Speaker 2: world meetings, I think it could be incredibly helpful to 383 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:46,879 Speaker 2: give a bit of a support point for people. But 384 00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:49,720 Speaker 2: it's again remembering that there are certain ways that it 385 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:52,480 Speaker 2: might not be able to be the same. 386 00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:55,359 Speaker 1: As a human seem to watch it develop over the 387 00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:59,200 Speaker 1: next five to ten years and how it will exist 388 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:01,239 Speaker 1: and whether at the end of the day, you know, 389 00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:05,359 Speaker 1: as humans, we've thrived for millions of years because of 390 00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:08,080 Speaker 1: connection and that's what we need. So will the AI 391 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:11,960 Speaker 1: connection be able to well replace human connection? She knows 392 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:16,960 Speaker 1: what's space. We won't figure that out. 393 00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:19,440 Speaker 2: I need a little bit long to figure that out. Now. 394 00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:21,600 Speaker 1: One other thing that came up was asking for help. 395 00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:24,040 Speaker 1: Seems to be a barrier in people when it comes 396 00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:27,400 Speaker 1: to mental health. And this surprised me in some ways 397 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:29,560 Speaker 1: because I feel like there's a lot out there that 398 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:32,160 Speaker 1: you know, are you okay? Day? Like, there's a lot 399 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:35,119 Speaker 1: out there now encouraging people to put the hand up, 400 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:37,600 Speaker 1: but people are still struggling with this. How do we 401 00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:41,200 Speaker 1: raise issues or things that we might be struggling with 402 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:43,720 Speaker 1: with or family or friends or whoever. 403 00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:47,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, really interesting, and as you say, we've come a 404 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:50,280 Speaker 2: long way, Like, I think there's so much more out 405 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:53,040 Speaker 2: there about this now, and I think we're a lot 406 00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:55,639 Speaker 2: more open compared to the past when it comes to 407 00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:57,840 Speaker 2: talking about mental health and reaching out for help. But 408 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:01,440 Speaker 2: it's still a massive struggle. And I think if people 409 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:04,119 Speaker 2: are sitting there feeling like this has been difficult or 410 00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:07,040 Speaker 2: is difficult for them, they're not alone because this is 411 00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:11,160 Speaker 2: really kind of triggering deep difficult stuff. And to ask 412 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:14,000 Speaker 2: for help or talk about it, or even ask someone 413 00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:18,200 Speaker 2: else about how they're doing it takes us first having 414 00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:22,200 Speaker 2: to actually look at and acknowledge some often pretty uncomfortable, 415 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:25,639 Speaker 2: difficult feelings. And naturally that's just hard. And our brain, 416 00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:28,640 Speaker 2: as Freud talked about, for better or worse, our brain 417 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:32,280 Speaker 2: is very good at throwing up a range of defense. Yeah, 418 00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:35,879 Speaker 2: you know, mechanisms to protect us from that feeling. So 419 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:37,760 Speaker 2: I think you know, one of the ways to really 420 00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:41,159 Speaker 2: work on it is to just work on acknowledging again 421 00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:43,760 Speaker 2: what's there and how we're feeling, and checking in on 422 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:48,680 Speaker 2: ourselves around how we're doing. And then I think it's 423 00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:51,399 Speaker 2: to know as well, whether whether one reaching out or 424 00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:53,920 Speaker 2: whether one wanting to reach in to ask someone else 425 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:56,760 Speaker 2: that we're worried about. It's knowing that there's no right 426 00:21:56,920 --> 00:21:59,000 Speaker 2: or wrong way to do it. You know, I talk 427 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:01,399 Speaker 2: to a lot of people who get very worried that 428 00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:04,440 Speaker 2: they're going to say the wrong thing, not be able 429 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:07,080 Speaker 2: to explain it how they feel it, ask the wrong 430 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:11,199 Speaker 2: question make the person worse. But we know now just 431 00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:14,600 Speaker 2: through experience but also research, that if we ask, however 432 00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:18,640 Speaker 2: we ask, the outcomes and benefits for that person are 433 00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:21,560 Speaker 2: far and away better than if we just didn't talk 434 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:24,960 Speaker 2: about it or ask at all. Other little tricks and 435 00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:28,120 Speaker 2: tips are to lead with care and concern rather than 436 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:32,080 Speaker 2: noting things we've noticed. It's human nature to kind of 437 00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:35,680 Speaker 2: try and explain what we're thinking and seeing and feeling 438 00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:39,920 Speaker 2: by specific kind of things that we've observed. But it's 439 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:42,080 Speaker 2: more helpful if we're trying to talk about our mental 440 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:46,040 Speaker 2: healthful concerns to sort of talk about us being worried 441 00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:49,439 Speaker 2: and concerned and how we're feeling, rather than again, if 442 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:53,679 Speaker 2: we're asking someone else rather than saying you've been off lately, 443 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:56,359 Speaker 2: or you've been quiet, or I've noticed you have been 444 00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:59,880 Speaker 2: dropping the ball on this, that can obviously be quite triggering. 445 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:02,600 Speaker 2: And yeah, you know, make a bit of a defense. 446 00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:06,360 Speaker 1: Which gets mindful of our language, lead. 447 00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:08,439 Speaker 2: With kind of care and concern. And we might have 448 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:10,239 Speaker 2: touched on it in the past actually as well. But 449 00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:12,280 Speaker 2: you know, I love this idea of like a chat 450 00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:16,600 Speaker 2: lap or like diffusing some of the intensity. So one 451 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:18,760 Speaker 2: of the things that I talk to patients and family 452 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:23,200 Speaker 2: members are patients about is just generating a talk around 453 00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:25,840 Speaker 2: mental health and feelings and life and stress when we 454 00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:28,320 Speaker 2: might also be doing something else. So it might be 455 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:31,000 Speaker 2: on a drive in the car, you know, the whole 456 00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:32,879 Speaker 2: car therapy type thing with our friends. 457 00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:34,720 Speaker 1: I love that, kids. 458 00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:38,160 Speaker 2: It's a real thing for a reason. So it might 459 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:40,000 Speaker 2: be in the car, it might be over the dishes, 460 00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:42,639 Speaker 2: it might be while we're doing something in the backyard. 461 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:46,880 Speaker 2: We actually know, even just neurologically, that things can flow 462 00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:50,920 Speaker 2: and come better doing something. It diffuses it a bit. 463 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:53,200 Speaker 1: Actually, my one of my sons said to me the 464 00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:56,359 Speaker 1: other day it was either tom my husband or I 465 00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:57,880 Speaker 1: pick hm up from school. It's like, oh, Mom, can 466 00:23:57,880 --> 00:23:59,280 Speaker 1: you pick me up? Because we have a good chat 467 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:01,199 Speaker 1: in the car. And then I actually made a mental 468 00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:03,199 Speaker 1: note of I'm going to pick you up once a 469 00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:05,680 Speaker 1: week now so we can have a chat because that's 470 00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:07,120 Speaker 1: our space. 471 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:10,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's it is, and god, that's so beautiful. 472 00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:12,800 Speaker 2: But like you say, it's just the car is like 473 00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:16,080 Speaker 2: a it's almost protected time. We don't have other people 474 00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:19,119 Speaker 2: coming in, rushing in and out. And it's also you know, 475 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:22,480 Speaker 2: because there are even just some background things to hold 476 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:26,440 Speaker 2: elements of our attention. Otherwise, it often makes it easier 477 00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:30,600 Speaker 2: to talk, especially about kind of bigger, deeper emotional type 478 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:33,679 Speaker 2: things because in some ways we're kind of and you're. 479 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:37,680 Speaker 1: Not looking people straight in the eyes. 480 00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:39,360 Speaker 2: Side or there's radio in the background. We can look 481 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:41,199 Speaker 2: at other cars as we're driving. 482 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:43,720 Speaker 1: Now, just quickly before we go. We know what you 483 00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:46,040 Speaker 1: do for your hobbies. How do you safeguard your mental health? 484 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:49,560 Speaker 2: Yeah? I think I mean again fits with the hobby 485 00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:52,439 Speaker 2: in a way for me. You know, exercise in the 486 00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:55,280 Speaker 2: gym is just if I've had a really full on 487 00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:58,520 Speaker 2: day with patients, you know, or it's been a stressful week. 488 00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:01,960 Speaker 2: Even if I feel like I am dragging myself in there, 489 00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:05,320 Speaker 2: I very rarely have a workout or an exercise session 490 00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:08,760 Speaker 2: where I don't come out of that feeling so much 491 00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:12,680 Speaker 2: more relaxed and kind of having discharged things. Probably the 492 00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:15,920 Speaker 2: other way I look after my mental health is no surprise. 493 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:18,040 Speaker 2: But I've always been a bit of a sharer, a 494 00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:20,920 Speaker 2: bit of a talker, you know. And I guess it's 495 00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:23,680 Speaker 2: also lucky in terms of I've had friends and family 496 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:27,119 Speaker 2: to just discharge things to a little bit, you know. 497 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:30,560 Speaker 2: And I think we underestimate even if we're sending a 498 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:33,760 Speaker 2: meme to a mate about you know, the day being 499 00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:36,080 Speaker 2: like a hurricane or you know. I think even those 500 00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:39,040 Speaker 2: tiny little touch points of just checking them with someone 501 00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:40,960 Speaker 2: and then having them shoot. 502 00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:43,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, like just one simple text can actually just boost you. 503 00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:45,760 Speaker 1: If you're just feeling like shit. 504 00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:48,640 Speaker 2: And it's been a stressful day and we're feeling like shit, 505 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:52,399 Speaker 2: we underestimate. I think how just that little check in 506 00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:55,320 Speaker 2: or that little text, that meme, that little laugh with 507 00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:59,000 Speaker 2: a friend can kind of really diffuse things. And so 508 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:02,359 Speaker 2: I think for me, you know, for better or worse, 509 00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:04,600 Speaker 2: my family and best mates know that I'm kind of 510 00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:08,359 Speaker 2: a near constant yeah, text, the communication and stuff, so 511 00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:10,800 Speaker 2: it's I think that is also if I reflect on 512 00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:13,480 Speaker 2: it a way for me that I really kind of 513 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:17,280 Speaker 2: just buffer any stresses or difficult days and kind of 514 00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:20,560 Speaker 2: look after my mental health as well. Send a text, yep, send. 515 00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:23,119 Speaker 1: Them me, Karen, thanks for coming back on healthy. 516 00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:24,480 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me. 517 00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:34,000 Speaker 1: How do you safeguard your mental health? What's your list? 518 00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:37,600 Speaker 1: Do you actually action it? I hope this episode has 519 00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:41,600 Speaker 1: inspired you to do it, just at least one thing 520 00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:44,119 Speaker 1: on the list, because you know you'll feel better afterwards. 521 00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:46,880 Speaker 1: It's that run so hard to get out the door, 522 00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:49,639 Speaker 1: but once you do it, you feel amazing. Have you 523 00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:52,560 Speaker 1: come across our Health of the Nation Challenge? Yes, we 524 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:56,200 Speaker 1: have joined up with the kick app to offer you 525 00:26:56,359 --> 00:27:00,119 Speaker 1: one month free access to the app. It is a 526 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:04,120 Speaker 1: four week challenge design to get you moving with Steph 527 00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:08,200 Speaker 1: and Laura's favorite workouts. There are lots in there. Jump 528 00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:11,120 Speaker 1: on board. There's something for everyone. We'll leave a link 529 00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:14,720 Speaker 1: to this in the show notes. Now tell us what 530 00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:17,240 Speaker 1: you thought of this chat, Share with a friend. You 531 00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:20,119 Speaker 1: can DM me at Felicity Harley anything else. Head to 532 00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:22,840 Speaker 1: Bodyansoul dot com dot you follow us a Body and 533 00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:25,320 Speaker 1: soul on socials. Grab our print edition which is out 534 00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:31,680 Speaker 1: in your local Sunday paper, and of course stay healthy.