WEBVTT - The Gangster's Ghost Episode 1: Dead Man Talking

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<v Speaker 1>Before we begin. This podcast contains graphic descriptions of violence.

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<v Speaker 1>This is a production by The Australian and our subscribers.

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<v Speaker 1>Here episodes first and get full access to photos, video,

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<v Speaker 1>news stories and features plus all Australia's best journalism twenty

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<v Speaker 1>four to seven. Join us at Gangstersghost dot com.

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<v Speaker 2>Dot a U. Stuart John Reagan. He was the maniac

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<v Speaker 2>gangster shotgun Johnny Nano, the magician gunned down at the

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<v Speaker 2>age of just twenty nine after terrorizing the East Coast

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<v Speaker 2>of Australia throughout the nineteen sixties and seventies. It was

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<v Speaker 2>said he killed up to twelve people, including an innocent toddler,

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<v Speaker 2>and vanished their bodies At the height of his notoriety, evil,

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<v Speaker 2>his violence, his hair triggered temper. His reputation as a

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<v Speaker 2>vendor of death was distilled into a single word, Reagan.

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<v Speaker 2>He terrified crooks and coppers alike. He was the monster

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<v Speaker 2>with movie star good looks. Women fawned over him, men

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<v Speaker 2>tried to imitate the teetotaling tough guy. What set him

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<v Speaker 2>apart was his hair trigger temper from zero to lethal

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<v Speaker 2>boiling point in the blink of an eye. His few

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<v Speaker 2>friends said he had a tiger inside of him. His

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<v Speaker 2>own murder at the hands of three gunmen in a

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<v Speaker 2>grubby Sydney laneway in broad daylight remains unsold, and half

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<v Speaker 2>a century later, police deal don't want to know about it.

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<v Speaker 2>He was crazy by any measure, a standout psychopath in

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<v Speaker 2>a criminal era that had its fair share of them.

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<v Speaker 2>Reagan roared through the underworld like a flame thrower before

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<v Speaker 2>eight bullets to the body and the head stopped the chaos.

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<v Speaker 2>That's where the story should have ended, but not for

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<v Speaker 2>the Reagan family. His name and reputation have soiled a

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<v Speaker 2>family tree from rural New South Wales that is filled

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<v Speaker 2>with pioneers and war heroes. For them, it's time to

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<v Speaker 2>set the record straight. Was Stuart John Reagan as bad

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<v Speaker 2>as history has portrayed him? Did he actually kill Little

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<v Speaker 2>Carlos in nineteen seventy four, and who in turn murdered

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<v Speaker 2>Reagan a few months later. After years of investigation, the

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<v Speaker 2>family now has some answers. In this podcast, we will

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<v Speaker 2>reveal a new theory about Reagan's assassination as possible retribution

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<v Speaker 2>for Carlos's death. How Reagan tried to kill whistleblowing Madame

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<v Speaker 2>Shirley Brifman, who died in mysterious circumstances shortly afterwards. How

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<v Speaker 2>domestic violence perpetrated by Reagan's terrifying mother Claire, set him

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<v Speaker 2>on the path to crime and into history. How Reagan

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<v Speaker 2>was brutalized at a boy's home that was little more

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<v Speaker 2>than an academy for Australia's leading criminals, including Chow Hayes,

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<v Speaker 2>Neddie Smith, Lenny McPherson and George Freeman. We'll expose for

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<v Speaker 2>the first time Reagan's role in the Whiskeyer Go Go

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<v Speaker 2>nightclub massacre in Brisbane in nineteen seventy three, which killed

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<v Speaker 2>fifteen innocent people. And incredibly, you will hear the voice

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<v Speaker 2>of Johnny Reagan himself from old real to real tapes

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<v Speaker 2>hidden away for years in a black suitcase. Welcome to

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<v Speaker 2>the nether world of Australia's last old school gangster. I'm

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<v Speaker 2>journalist Matthew Condon and this is the gangster's ghost episode

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<v Speaker 2>one dead man talking. How on earth did I end

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<v Speaker 2>up here? A couple of days ago, I was at

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<v Speaker 2>home in far northern New South Wales, having a surf

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<v Speaker 2>with my kids, surrounded by beautiful beaches and lush rainforests

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<v Speaker 2>now here. I am on a farm outside the country

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<v Speaker 2>town of Young, on the southwestern slopes of New South Wales,

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<v Speaker 2>more than one thousand, one hundred kilometers away, the landscape

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<v Speaker 2>gently rolling with patchwork wheat and canola fields, surrounded by hundreds,

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<v Speaker 2>no thousands, of grubby sheep. I was only here because

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<v Speaker 2>of a local farmer, Kelly Slater. I was here because

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<v Speaker 2>Kelly contacted me and asked if I was interested in

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<v Speaker 2>finding out the truth about a gangster she had in

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<v Speaker 2>her family tree. If the Reagans were looking for any

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<v Speaker 2>redemption here, it was going to be difficult to find.

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<v Speaker 2>What if the family came on this journey and found

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<v Speaker 2>a monster even more vile and horrific than they could

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<v Speaker 2>possibly imagine. They had to be prepared for the worst.

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<v Speaker 2>But standing out there in those dusty paddocks, thinking about Reagan,

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<v Speaker 2>how he was a boy here, how he played bush

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<v Speaker 2>rangers in the local creeks and went to chapel with

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<v Speaker 2>his schoolmates, how he breathed in the very same country air.

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<v Speaker 2>I was taking in Kelly's offer of joining the family

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<v Speaker 2>in this hunt for the real Stuart John Reagan was

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<v Speaker 2>already irresistible. They had documents letters from Reagan in prison.

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<v Speaker 2>Even Reagan's de facto partner and mother to three of

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<v Speaker 2>his children, Margaret was prepared to speak for the first

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<v Speaker 2>time about her life with the gangster. But they had

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<v Speaker 2>something else, something I had to hear, quite literally to

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<v Speaker 2>believe testing one, two, three for five. As a crime writer,

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<v Speaker 2>you encounter a lot of dark and surprising things. Sometimes

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<v Speaker 2>you hear stories you wish you could unhear. But the

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<v Speaker 2>first time I sat down and listened to the old

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<v Speaker 2>tapes hidden in a suitcase for decades, I was speechless.

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<v Speaker 3>That's black man, and he said, I'll buy the diamonds

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<v Speaker 3>back off you for that amount. He okay, when the

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<v Speaker 3>time period elapsed, I didn't want to sell under the

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<v Speaker 3>Norman Carter and he's how amagant.

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<v Speaker 2>It's difficult to describe the sensation of hearing for the

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<v Speaker 2>first time the actual voice of a notorious killer he'd

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<v Speaker 2>only read about in books and ancient newspaper clippings. It

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<v Speaker 2>felt like I was sitting in the same room as

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<v Speaker 2>a ghost. This ghost, however, may have murdered a dozen

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<v Speaker 2>people in cold blood during the mid nineteen sixties until

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<v Speaker 2>his own death in nineteen seventy four. Police were also

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<v Speaker 2>convinced he murdered an innocent toddler. The child's body has

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<v Speaker 2>never been found. So let's cut to the chase here.

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<v Speaker 2>Reagan was crazy by any measure, lethal, a dangerous, loose

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<v Speaker 2>cannon and clearly a psychopath.

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<v Speaker 4>Absolutely, we'll put him with the others, right Reagan, of course. Now,

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<v Speaker 4>Reagan was shot dead by three Shepherd guns. I'm out

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<v Speaker 4>at Mary Crew near Henson Park.

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<v Speaker 2>This is the notorious foreman New South Wales detective and

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<v Speaker 2>convicted murderer Roger Rogerson, who talked to me over the

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<v Speaker 2>fern many years ago about Johnny Reagan.

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<v Speaker 4>Lenny Macpherson said to me once, Matt, he said Roger.

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<v Speaker 4>He said, you can control a bad man, but you

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<v Speaker 4>can't control a madman. And I've never ever forgotten.

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<v Speaker 2>That Roger's dead now. But he knew a bad man

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<v Speaker 2>when he met one, and he knew Reagan was out

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<v Speaker 2>of control.

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<v Speaker 5>I just thought you interested in seeing I.

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<v Speaker 2>Still vividly remember when Kelly Slater Reagan herself a former

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<v Speaker 2>New South Wales copper, first contacted me. This is Kelly

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<v Speaker 2>reading an email she sent me.

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<v Speaker 6>Hi.

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<v Speaker 5>I'm an ex police officer and cousin of Johnny Reagan.

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<v Speaker 5>We're looking at doing a podcast on him, the good,

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<v Speaker 5>the bad, the ugly, mostly the two latter, but his

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<v Speaker 5>childhood as well. We have letters and recordings that have

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<v Speaker 5>never been heard. Looking for help to make it work,

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<v Speaker 5>Kelly Slater Reagan, so.

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<v Speaker 2>I phone Kelly. We talked about how the family needed

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<v Speaker 2>the truth after all these years, and almost as an afterthought,

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<v Speaker 2>she added, then there's the tapes. The tapes. What tapes,

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<v Speaker 2>I asked, Johnny. She said, We've got secret tapes of

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<v Speaker 2>Johnny on the phone back in the day, hours of

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<v Speaker 2>them before he was murdered. Opened the door, and that's

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<v Speaker 2>how the ghost of this long dead gangster strode into

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<v Speaker 2>the room and started talking to me and now to you.

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<v Speaker 2>Reagan loved technology and at some stage decided to tape

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<v Speaker 2>his home phone calls. He rigged up his nineteen sixties

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<v Speaker 2>rotary doll telephone with a micro fern and a real

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<v Speaker 2>to real tape deck recorder. He even took a concealed

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<v Speaker 2>miniature cassette recorder out into the streets of King's Cross

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<v Speaker 2>and Darlinghurst and captured conversations with other criminals and crooked cops.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, You've got a good defense for this. Those

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<v Speaker 2>lost tapes are filled with Reagan's wheeling and dealing, his

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<v Speaker 2>superior knowledge of the law, and his relentless quest to

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<v Speaker 2>get around it. You shouldn't have had that card interest

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<v Speaker 2>in your lying in a third flight, and the names

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<v Speaker 2>of many of the coppers he could either work with

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<v Speaker 2>or manipulate with cash under the table? Which is him? Mate?

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<v Speaker 2>What do you look at?

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<v Speaker 6>He Schnoker plaid.

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<v Speaker 2>He's probably a mate of Sturdon. He even thinks out

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<v Speaker 2>loud about putting a bullet in an enemy's head, just

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<v Speaker 2>as casually as you and I might wonder out loud

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<v Speaker 2>what we'll have for breakfast.

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<v Speaker 6>You mark my words.

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<v Speaker 7>I'm not telling you a line.

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<v Speaker 3>I'll give you a to your ideas, Tomas, you want

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<v Speaker 3>to go through with him?

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<v Speaker 6>If not, well, you know.

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<v Speaker 2>Reagan kept his tapes hidden away in a suitcase in

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<v Speaker 2>his mother's house in Sydney. When he died, that suitcase

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<v Speaker 2>stayed inside a dark cupboard until his own mother, Claire Reagan,

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<v Speaker 2>or the Kernel, as they called her, passed away in

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<v Speaker 2>nineteen eighty eight. The tapes, magnetic recording reels, each as

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<v Speaker 2>big as a bread plate, were lost for years. As

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<v Speaker 2>recently as a couple of months ago, these historical artifacts

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<v Speaker 2>sounded like something out of an audio museum, muffled, garbled ancients.

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<v Speaker 2>Then lightning struck the Australians in house sound maestro Jasper

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<v Speaker 2>Leak had come across an artificial intelligence program that he

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<v Speaker 2>thought might just might help clean up Reagan's amateur recordings.

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<v Speaker 2>It was worth a shot. Here's Jasper.

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<v Speaker 8>I'm always on the lookout for new software, and I

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<v Speaker 8>came across this one earlier in the year DX Revive.

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<v Speaker 8>It's called by accenties. Think of it a bit like

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<v Speaker 8>a pencil sketch that's only been partially completed. Imagine if

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<v Speaker 8>you could put that drawing into a machine and it

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<v Speaker 8>would finish the picture for you and make it look

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<v Speaker 8>better than you could have done yourself. It would add

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<v Speaker 8>color and shadows and depth. This tool does that, but

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<v Speaker 8>for old bad audio.

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<v Speaker 2>Then our other audio guru, Leah Sammaglu, spent hundreds of

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<v Speaker 2>hours feeding the Reagan tapes through this AI software, fine

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<v Speaker 2>tuning for neessing and draw out voices and sounds from

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<v Speaker 2>half a century ago.

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<v Speaker 9>Really, it's like now we can hear Johnny's voice clearly.

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<v Speaker 9>We can also hear the voices of the people that

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<v Speaker 9>he's talking to, like the ones on the other end

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<v Speaker 9>of the phone. When I heard it for the first time,

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<v Speaker 9>I got chills down my spine. It's like a miracle.

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<v Speaker 2>This is Johnny captured on the raw digital file of

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<v Speaker 2>the Reagan tapes and the cops and what they're doing

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<v Speaker 2>and what they're trying to do.

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<v Speaker 10>Cops, all I will.

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<v Speaker 2>And this is the same audio after Jasper, Leah and

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<v Speaker 2>our new best friend artificial intelligence performed their wizardry. Have

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<v Speaker 2>you heard? Whisper learning heard? Must have read the cops

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<v Speaker 2>and what they're doing and what they're trying to do. Look,

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<v Speaker 2>you know yourself, nobody gallant coppers?

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<v Speaker 5>Will I will?

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<v Speaker 2>This journey has made me rethink all the trepidation and

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<v Speaker 2>debate surrounding artificial intelligence, particularly in the feel of journalism.

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<v Speaker 2>Would AI ultimately replace journalists as we'd been warned? Would

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<v Speaker 2>it take over the world. The experience with the Reagan tapes, however,

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<v Speaker 2>is an exciting, in this case jaw dropping example of

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<v Speaker 2>how AI is far from the bogey man. For the podcast,

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<v Speaker 2>it has proved to be a phenomenal tool. You will

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<v Speaker 2>soon be hearing a lot of the gangster's ghost as

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<v Speaker 2>clear as if the killer himself had pulled up a

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<v Speaker 2>chair at your kitchen table and settled down for a

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<v Speaker 2>cup of tea and a chat. The first and most

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<v Speaker 2>obvious thing for me to do was to go to

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<v Speaker 2>Young to meet Kelly. We needed to talk about her

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<v Speaker 2>dead gangster cousin, which I guess from the outset made

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<v Speaker 2>this something of a ghost story, replete as it was,

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<v Speaker 2>with real bullets and bloodshed. Time and again, as Kelly

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<v Speaker 2>and I burrowed closer to the truth about this complex man,

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<v Speaker 2>strange things happened, ridiculous coincidences and wild strokes of luck.

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<v Speaker 2>If you believed in that sort of thing, it was

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<v Speaker 2>as if the gangster's ghost was pulling some strings and

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<v Speaker 2>guiding our research. Here's Kelly, We're sitting at her kitchen

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<v Speaker 2>table at that farm in Young.

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<v Speaker 5>Honestly, I don't know exactly what we'll find. I know

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<v Speaker 5>we'll find that he probably killed people. I've accepted that fact.

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<v Speaker 5>Will we find did he kill that little boy like

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<v Speaker 5>that is? That's something I'd really like to learn, Carlos,

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<v Speaker 5>did he or did me? And I'm resigned to the

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<v Speaker 5>fact that if he did, Like but I'm hopeful that

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<v Speaker 5>they didn't the whiskey of go Go? What was his

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<v Speaker 5>involvement in that? Was he a psychopath? Like they said?

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<v Speaker 5>Is the stories that they tell about him true?

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<v Speaker 10>Why do you want to know this right now?

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<v Speaker 11>In history?

0:18:29.440 --> 0:18:31.479
<v Speaker 5>I don't know. It's funny, isn't it, Like when you

0:18:31.480 --> 0:18:33.399
<v Speaker 5>you know, they talk about war veterans and all that,

0:18:33.640 --> 0:18:36.320
<v Speaker 5>and they they talk about it when they get older,

0:18:36.359 --> 0:18:39.680
<v Speaker 5>and I think history you get to a certain age

0:18:39.680 --> 0:18:42.560
<v Speaker 5>where you just think you want to know. But I've

0:18:42.560 --> 0:18:44.760
<v Speaker 5>got a curious mind, Like I've been a day drama

0:18:44.800 --> 0:18:46.840
<v Speaker 5>since the day I was born, and I've got a

0:18:46.920 --> 0:18:50.159
<v Speaker 5>really curious mind. And I'm not afraid to you know,

0:18:50.160 --> 0:18:52.680
<v Speaker 5>I love a chat, so I'm not afraid to ask questions.

0:18:52.680 --> 0:18:56.080
<v Speaker 5>And I'm yeah, just I guess never been in the

0:18:56.119 --> 0:18:58.720
<v Speaker 5>right time. But again, like who am I going to

0:18:58.760 --> 0:19:03.040
<v Speaker 5>do it with? We'd get boring, wouldn't it? Like who

0:19:03.080 --> 0:19:04.440
<v Speaker 5>do you share fun with?

0:19:04.640 --> 0:19:04.720
<v Speaker 4>So?

0:19:05.160 --> 0:19:05.840
<v Speaker 11>Yeah, who do you?

0:19:06.240 --> 0:19:06.480
<v Speaker 6>Well?

0:19:06.600 --> 0:19:09.600
<v Speaker 11>The most important thing will be to bounce.

0:19:13.160 --> 0:19:15.439
<v Speaker 2>Just a quick note here. I really want you to

0:19:15.520 --> 0:19:19.800
<v Speaker 2>like Kelly. She's a great laugh, as it turns out,

0:19:19.840 --> 0:19:24.200
<v Speaker 2>a ruthless researcher, and as honest as the day is long.

0:19:25.200 --> 0:19:28.359
<v Speaker 2>I knew from the outset that I had well a

0:19:28.400 --> 0:19:29.760
<v Speaker 2>partner in crime.

0:19:29.480 --> 0:19:33.960
<v Speaker 5>Here, curious min and I'm not afraid.

0:19:35.080 --> 0:19:38.159
<v Speaker 2>That first day I met Kelly and we sat at

0:19:38.160 --> 0:19:43.480
<v Speaker 2>her kitchen table. We were awaiting someone else. Margaret Reagan

0:19:44.160 --> 0:19:48.840
<v Speaker 2>Johnny's long term some might say long suffering, de facto

0:19:49.000 --> 0:19:54.080
<v Speaker 2>wife and mother to three of his children. She was

0:19:54.200 --> 0:19:59.840
<v Speaker 2>due at the farm soon. I wondered how much she knew,

0:19:59.880 --> 0:20:04.600
<v Speaker 2>not just about the day Johnny Reagan was assassinated, or

0:20:04.640 --> 0:20:10.040
<v Speaker 2>even about his criminal career. Did she know anything about

0:20:10.080 --> 0:20:16.720
<v Speaker 2>who might have wanted him dead? The seemingly untouchable Stuart

0:20:16.800 --> 0:20:21.680
<v Speaker 2>John Reagan, who often wore a bulletproof vest and always

0:20:21.720 --> 0:20:25.600
<v Speaker 2>had a bodyguard by his side, was there one minute,

0:20:25.840 --> 0:20:30.920
<v Speaker 2>larger than life, and gone the next, a corpse bleeding

0:20:30.960 --> 0:20:39.760
<v Speaker 2>out on a Sydney side street. His substantial assets seemed

0:20:39.760 --> 0:20:44.720
<v Speaker 2>to have disappeared with him. The so called millionaire gangster

0:20:45.520 --> 0:20:49.720
<v Speaker 2>was a violent standover man and a pimp for sex workers,

0:20:50.840 --> 0:20:55.480
<v Speaker 2>but he was also a property developer. If the family

0:20:55.520 --> 0:20:59.639
<v Speaker 2>has the story right, he owned substantial real estate assets

0:20:59.680 --> 0:21:03.200
<v Speaker 2>in New South Wales and Queensland. When he was murdered,

0:21:04.240 --> 0:21:07.719
<v Speaker 2>he'd flip houses for a profit. He also had a

0:21:07.760 --> 0:21:12.000
<v Speaker 2>taxi in car rental business, and prior to his death

0:21:12.600 --> 0:21:16.719
<v Speaker 2>he had developed what may have been the greatest land

0:21:16.760 --> 0:21:22.440
<v Speaker 2>scam in Australian history, which we'll examine in detail later

0:21:22.480 --> 0:21:23.480
<v Speaker 2>in this podcast.

0:21:23.640 --> 0:21:28.480
<v Speaker 11>What does it say that suddenly all lines of investigation,

0:21:28.880 --> 0:21:35.120
<v Speaker 11>query asking questions all stopped upon his death. Well, it's

0:21:35.119 --> 0:21:37.399
<v Speaker 11>still an active cold case his murder.

0:21:37.400 --> 0:21:40.160
<v Speaker 5>Well you think so, wouldn't you, because they never closed.

0:21:40.280 --> 0:21:43.720
<v Speaker 5>There's no statute of limitations on murder. And here is

0:21:43.760 --> 0:21:46.879
<v Speaker 5>one of the biggest gangsters. So who's killed one of

0:21:46.920 --> 0:21:48.680
<v Speaker 5>the biggest gangsters? Wouldn't you want to know? Out of

0:21:48.720 --> 0:21:52.080
<v Speaker 5>curiosity and with all the talk because over the years

0:21:52.119 --> 0:21:55.159
<v Speaker 5>I have spoken to people, I met a guy up

0:21:55.200 --> 0:21:58.359
<v Speaker 5>in Nelson's Bay. So what had happened is I was

0:21:58.400 --> 0:22:00.080
<v Speaker 5>at the station and a guy brought me in a

0:22:00.080 --> 0:22:03.399
<v Speaker 5>scrap book. I can't even remember who he was, and

0:22:03.440 --> 0:22:05.320
<v Speaker 5>he said, I just thought you might be interested in

0:22:05.359 --> 0:22:07.720
<v Speaker 5>seeing this. I know he was your uncle or your cousin.

0:22:07.800 --> 0:22:09.280
<v Speaker 5>I went, oh, right, and I had a look, and

0:22:09.320 --> 0:22:16.560
<v Speaker 5>here's the scrapbook of Allah and he brought it in.

0:22:16.600 --> 0:22:18.240
<v Speaker 5>So I was sitting out in the meal room and

0:22:18.280 --> 0:22:19.639
<v Speaker 5>I was just having a look at it, and it

0:22:19.680 --> 0:22:22.159
<v Speaker 5>was just sitting on the table. Now, what's the chances

0:22:22.200 --> 0:22:25.879
<v Speaker 5>of Assistant commissioner, former member of the armed hold up squad?

0:22:26.160 --> 0:22:29.920
<v Speaker 5>So I've been told pops in and he sees this

0:22:30.040 --> 0:22:32.359
<v Speaker 5>thing there and he says, oh, please looking at this

0:22:32.440 --> 0:22:34.160
<v Speaker 5>and I said, oh, that's me. And he said, oh,

0:22:34.240 --> 0:22:37.600
<v Speaker 5>what's what's your interest in Reagan? And I said, well,

0:22:37.640 --> 0:22:41.520
<v Speaker 5>he's my dad's first cousin. Oh, oh, well, I can

0:22:41.560 --> 0:22:43.440
<v Speaker 5>put you in contact with someone who can tell you.

0:22:44.040 --> 0:22:46.200
<v Speaker 5>So that's when he gave me old mate's number. He said,

0:22:46.200 --> 0:22:49.400
<v Speaker 5>I'll meet you at the golf course in Nelson's Bay.

0:22:49.520 --> 0:22:51.680
<v Speaker 5>It was real cloak and dagger, and he handed me

0:22:51.760 --> 0:22:53.600
<v Speaker 5>a letter that I had to destroy.

0:22:53.800 --> 0:22:54.800
<v Speaker 11>What was the matter.

0:22:54.920 --> 0:22:58.000
<v Speaker 5>It was just sort of saying that, you know, he

0:22:58.080 --> 0:23:00.560
<v Speaker 5>knew John, that he'd arrested him, that he was he

0:23:00.600 --> 0:23:04.080
<v Speaker 5>went to the hospital when he'd broken Marg's jaw and

0:23:04.160 --> 0:23:06.200
<v Speaker 5>tried to get him, tried to get Mard to give

0:23:06.240 --> 0:23:08.760
<v Speaker 5>a statement, which you wouldn't give a statement. It was

0:23:08.760 --> 0:23:11.240
<v Speaker 5>sort of just about that, and I'm like, is there

0:23:11.240 --> 0:23:13.000
<v Speaker 5>anything else? Do you know who killed? No? No, no, no,

0:23:13.160 --> 0:23:15.640
<v Speaker 5>no no no? Do you did he kill Carr? Yeah?

0:23:15.720 --> 0:23:18.359
<v Speaker 5>Dead set killed that baby. He killed that baby. And

0:23:18.400 --> 0:23:21.520
<v Speaker 5>I'm like, oh right, okay, yep, yep, right here, and

0:23:21.560 --> 0:23:24.880
<v Speaker 5>then off he went. So every time someone would find

0:23:24.920 --> 0:23:26.640
<v Speaker 5>out that my name was Reagan and I was from

0:23:26.680 --> 0:23:28.439
<v Speaker 5>young and it was a police officer they and they

0:23:28.440 --> 0:23:31.439
<v Speaker 5>were senior, they'd all way, oh, yeah, yeah, do you

0:23:31.440 --> 0:23:33.840
<v Speaker 5>know Johnny Reagan? Yeah, yeah, I do. Yeah. In the end,

0:23:33.880 --> 0:23:35.720
<v Speaker 5>sometimes I'd just say no, no, don't know. He talked

0:23:35.720 --> 0:23:40.840
<v Speaker 5>about right, but yeah, it was. It was always there.

0:23:40.880 --> 0:23:43.119
<v Speaker 5>And so I asked the senior, like a guy that

0:23:43.240 --> 0:23:46.480
<v Speaker 5>was a detective at Newtown at the same time, I said,

0:23:46.600 --> 0:23:48.200
<v Speaker 5>if you were there in seventy four, do you remember

0:23:48.240 --> 0:23:51.240
<v Speaker 5>Stuart John Ray? Oh yeah, yeah I do. I said,

0:23:50.640 --> 0:23:53.160
<v Speaker 5>well he was my cousin. He said, all right. I said,

0:23:53.160 --> 0:23:54.560
<v Speaker 5>do you ever know who killed him? He said, well,

0:23:54.600 --> 0:23:58.200
<v Speaker 5>we were told that in the area at the time

0:23:58.280 --> 0:24:00.720
<v Speaker 5>there was a car with four detective you've seen in it.

0:24:00.760 --> 0:24:02.840
<v Speaker 5>They were wearing these bowler hats or something and they

0:24:02.840 --> 0:24:06.159
<v Speaker 5>had police coats on. And he said there was always

0:24:06.160 --> 0:24:08.120
<v Speaker 5>a whisper that it was Rogerson's first hit.

0:24:08.400 --> 0:24:09.480
<v Speaker 10>Roger Rogerson.

0:24:11.240 --> 0:24:16.359
<v Speaker 2>Roger Caleb Rogerson, the notorious former New South Wales police

0:24:16.359 --> 0:24:23.399
<v Speaker 2>detective sergeant implicated in killing's assault, verbaling, drug dealing and

0:24:23.560 --> 0:24:29.440
<v Speaker 2>corruption during a tumultuous career that saw him both admired

0:24:30.000 --> 0:24:35.560
<v Speaker 2>and hated. At his peak from the late nineteen sixties

0:24:35.920 --> 0:24:39.800
<v Speaker 2>through to the early nineteen eighties, he associated with all

0:24:39.880 --> 0:24:45.200
<v Speaker 2>the corrupt cops and Sydney gangsters that formed Johnny Reagan's milliere.

0:24:47.160 --> 0:24:50.320
<v Speaker 2>Rogerson was one of the lead detectives who investigated the

0:24:50.359 --> 0:24:56.160
<v Speaker 2>Whisky Go Go nightclub bombing in Brisbane in nineteen seventy three,

0:24:56.200 --> 0:25:02.920
<v Speaker 2>which left fifteen people dead. This incredibly brought him into

0:25:02.960 --> 0:25:09.639
<v Speaker 2>the orbit of Reagan, but more of that later. Rogerson

0:25:09.680 --> 0:25:17.760
<v Speaker 2>became infamous after shooting dead drug dealer Warren Lanfranci. It

0:25:17.840 --> 0:25:20.560
<v Speaker 2>was suspected too, that he was involved in the attempted

0:25:20.680 --> 0:25:25.960
<v Speaker 2>murder of one of his own colleagues, police officer Michael Drury,

0:25:26.640 --> 0:25:32.600
<v Speaker 2>who had refused to take a bribe. Rogerson was dismissed

0:25:32.600 --> 0:25:35.760
<v Speaker 2>from the New South Wales Police Force in nineteen eighty six,

0:25:36.880 --> 0:25:40.600
<v Speaker 2>hit the pub circuit telling tall stories about his infamous

0:25:40.640 --> 0:25:45.719
<v Speaker 2>career before being charged in twenty fourteen with the murder

0:25:45.760 --> 0:25:51.920
<v Speaker 2>of Sydney drug dealer Jamie Gow. Rogerson was found guilty

0:25:52.480 --> 0:25:57.000
<v Speaker 2>of that crime. He died in Sydney's Long Bay jail.

0:25:57.200 --> 0:26:01.240
<v Speaker 2>Last year. When he was convinced of the Gow murder.

0:26:01.720 --> 0:26:07.199
<v Speaker 2>A Sydney newspaper ran a headline, serial killer with a badge.

0:26:08.440 --> 0:26:09.800
<v Speaker 5>And I said, what do you mean, his first hit?

0:26:09.840 --> 0:26:12.480
<v Speaker 5>And they said, since the forties and fifties, there's always

0:26:12.480 --> 0:26:15.359
<v Speaker 5>been a hit man in the cibur. I said, you

0:26:15.400 --> 0:26:19.200
<v Speaker 5>can't be generation. Yes, I said, you can't be serious.

0:26:19.520 --> 0:26:21.280
<v Speaker 5>He said, Oh, the rank and file would never know

0:26:21.359 --> 0:26:23.520
<v Speaker 5>about it. He said, but when detectives, when we'd all

0:26:23.520 --> 0:26:25.800
<v Speaker 5>go out and we'd all be having a beer and

0:26:26.080 --> 0:26:28.440
<v Speaker 5>lips would loosen a beer. He said, there was always

0:26:28.480 --> 0:26:29.520
<v Speaker 5>talk of that sort of stuff.

0:26:29.840 --> 0:26:30.639
<v Speaker 11>Told story.

0:26:31.480 --> 0:26:35.760
<v Speaker 2>The observation that each generation of police might have a

0:26:35.800 --> 0:26:40.720
<v Speaker 2>professional killer in its ranks is far from outlandish, given

0:26:40.760 --> 0:26:43.720
<v Speaker 2>the history of corruption in the New South Wales Force.

0:26:44.880 --> 0:26:48.080
<v Speaker 2>That reputation began with the arrival of the first fleet

0:26:48.200 --> 0:26:54.359
<v Speaker 2>in seventeen eighty eight and has never abated. Corruption flourished

0:26:54.359 --> 0:26:58.120
<v Speaker 2>in Sydney during the Second World War and became a

0:26:58.280 --> 0:27:01.760
<v Speaker 2>fine art in the hands of men like Ray Gunner

0:27:01.880 --> 0:27:06.919
<v Speaker 2>Kelly and Fred Froggy Cray. From the nineteen fifties to

0:27:07.000 --> 0:27:12.480
<v Speaker 2>the nineteen seventies. Roger Rogerson was part of the new

0:27:12.560 --> 0:27:18.360
<v Speaker 2>generation that carried that crooked Batton forward. The Wood Royal

0:27:18.400 --> 0:27:22.280
<v Speaker 2>Commission into the New South Wales Police Service between nineteen

0:27:22.359 --> 0:27:26.560
<v Speaker 2>ninety five and nineteen ninety seven examined the extent of

0:27:26.680 --> 0:27:32.600
<v Speaker 2>corruption in the force. It exposed countless examples of misconduct

0:27:33.080 --> 0:27:38.959
<v Speaker 2>and hundreds of officers were forced to resign. Kelly Reagan

0:27:39.080 --> 0:27:43.800
<v Speaker 2>was treated with extreme suspicion when she applied to join

0:27:43.880 --> 0:27:49.359
<v Speaker 2>the police. A relative of this violent killer wanted to

0:27:49.440 --> 0:27:52.360
<v Speaker 2>sign up to keep the peace in New South Wales.

0:27:53.880 --> 0:27:56.600
<v Speaker 2>I was interested in whether having Reagan in her family

0:27:56.680 --> 0:28:02.560
<v Speaker 2>tree actually inspired Kelly to com that crime. She had

0:28:02.560 --> 0:28:06.440
<v Speaker 2>been fascinated with Johnny Reagan since she was a little girl.

0:28:08.720 --> 0:28:10.920
<v Speaker 5>See, the family was always told that he was killed

0:28:10.920 --> 0:28:13.600
<v Speaker 5>by police, and it was you know, if they were,

0:28:13.640 --> 0:28:17.280
<v Speaker 5>they were very brazen because they used thirty eight's, So

0:28:17.680 --> 0:28:20.680
<v Speaker 5>it was always said that they were killed by police. Well,

0:28:20.720 --> 0:28:21.920
<v Speaker 5>he was killed by police.

0:28:22.320 --> 0:28:25.399
<v Speaker 10>I don't want to overstretched the metaphor, but in the

0:28:25.400 --> 0:28:28.520
<v Speaker 10>one family you've got a toorious gangster and a New

0:28:28.520 --> 0:28:29.600
<v Speaker 10>southlas police officer.

0:28:31.840 --> 0:28:34.080
<v Speaker 5>I know, don't worry. When I went for my job interview,

0:28:34.720 --> 0:28:38.480
<v Speaker 5>I was expecting three serving senior serving, but there was

0:28:38.480 --> 0:28:41.720
<v Speaker 5>five on the panel and that's mostly all they asked

0:28:41.760 --> 0:28:47.040
<v Speaker 5>for about. So Kelly Reagan from young Yep, what's your

0:28:47.080 --> 0:28:52.160
<v Speaker 5>relationship to Stuart John Reagan? Well, I never met him.

0:28:52.560 --> 0:28:55.280
<v Speaker 5>Here's my dad's cousin. And then it was just question

0:28:55.400 --> 0:28:56.480
<v Speaker 5>after question after question.

0:28:57.320 --> 0:28:59.840
<v Speaker 11>Do you think you became an officer because you had

0:29:00.200 --> 0:29:01.680
<v Speaker 11>an arch villain in the family.

0:29:01.880 --> 0:29:04.880
<v Speaker 5>No. A maide of mine joined and she dared me,

0:29:04.920 --> 0:29:09.240
<v Speaker 5>and I thought, yea, why not? As a kid, g

0:29:09.440 --> 0:29:11.120
<v Speaker 5>I've always wanted to be in the mound of police

0:29:11.400 --> 0:29:13.760
<v Speaker 5>working in the state bank, do I? And she was

0:29:13.800 --> 0:29:17.360
<v Speaker 5>at the NAB in Brooklab and we're live in together,

0:29:17.400 --> 0:29:19.320
<v Speaker 5>and she joined and she said, yeah, it's super easy

0:29:19.360 --> 0:29:22.400
<v Speaker 5>get in, all right, So put performed in the next

0:29:22.400 --> 0:29:22.920
<v Speaker 5>thing I'm in.

0:29:24.000 --> 0:29:27.200
<v Speaker 12>I guess one of the things we're going to have

0:29:27.200 --> 0:29:33.360
<v Speaker 12>to target is why there is so little information about them?

0:29:34.200 --> 0:29:38.200
<v Speaker 12>Is what has blocked the flow of information about Stuart

0:29:38.240 --> 0:29:42.680
<v Speaker 12>John Reagan. There's books on learning person, George Freeman, Abe Saffrum,

0:29:43.280 --> 0:29:46.920
<v Speaker 12>you name it. There is almost nothing on Reagan.

0:29:47.120 --> 0:29:53.000
<v Speaker 5>And nowadays there is podcasts and this podcast on everything

0:29:53.040 --> 0:29:55.880
<v Speaker 5>to do with crooks and gangsters, isn't it like Melbourne?

0:29:55.920 --> 0:29:57.920
<v Speaker 5>If you even got arrested for a break in any

0:29:57.960 --> 0:30:01.320
<v Speaker 5>you've got a podcast on about you. But in Sydney

0:30:01.320 --> 0:30:04.320
<v Speaker 5>you've got the same players. But here you've got someone

0:30:04.320 --> 0:30:08.240
<v Speaker 5>who's supposed to be one of Sydney's biggest, most notorious gangsters,

0:30:08.360 --> 0:30:11.040
<v Speaker 5>and you've got Sicky Do squad boy. You've got the

0:30:11.080 --> 0:30:14.440
<v Speaker 5>same rhetoric as what's been marched out psychopath as a

0:30:14.520 --> 0:30:19.160
<v Speaker 5>child killed, the child killed. Ruddy Clark signed his death

0:30:19.160 --> 0:30:19.600
<v Speaker 5>Barrit got.

0:30:23.280 --> 0:30:28.040
<v Speaker 2>Only two people were ever truly on the inside when

0:30:28.040 --> 0:30:36.400
<v Speaker 2>it came to Reagan, Margaret and Reagan's mother, Claire Claire

0:30:36.640 --> 0:30:42.280
<v Speaker 2>Mary Raul Reagan outlived her son and only child by

0:30:42.360 --> 0:30:47.200
<v Speaker 2>fourteen years, and she's been resting in the Catholic lawn

0:30:47.280 --> 0:30:53.000
<v Speaker 2>section of Sydney's Rookwood Cemetery Plot two six' five three

0:30:53.560 --> 0:30:58.080
<v Speaker 2>Since september nineteen eighty. Eight after just a couple of

0:30:58.160 --> 0:31:01.400
<v Speaker 2>days In young and talking to The reagan, family it

0:31:01.600 --> 0:31:06.040
<v Speaker 2>soon became a parent that this story had another shadowy,

0:31:06.120 --> 0:31:13.360
<v Speaker 2>figure and that Was Claire, reagan a figure so malevolent

0:31:13.920 --> 0:31:20.920
<v Speaker 2>that to this day she is still reviled In. Young back,

0:31:20.960 --> 0:31:30.440
<v Speaker 2>then everyone called her The colonel by all. Accounts she was, manipulative, controlling, violent,

0:31:31.160 --> 0:31:38.080
<v Speaker 2>intimidating and. Cruel she horsewhipped her son and terrified his

0:31:38.280 --> 0:31:44.000
<v Speaker 2>teachers at the Local catholic. SCHOOL i Asked kelly about

0:31:44.000 --> 0:31:49.320
<v Speaker 2>the family's view Of reagan's childhood and the colonel childhood

0:31:49.320 --> 0:31:49.720
<v Speaker 2>and young.

0:31:51.000 --> 0:31:53.520
<v Speaker 5>LOOK i think it was tough with his. Mother she

0:31:53.680 --> 0:31:57.720
<v Speaker 5>was a. Tyrant she was. Cruel she would flog him.

0:31:57.760 --> 0:32:00.800
<v Speaker 5>Mercilessly the other kids were terrified of the brothers at

0:32:00.800 --> 0:32:03.400
<v Speaker 5>the school were terrified over when when he got hurt one,

0:32:03.480 --> 0:32:05.720
<v Speaker 5>day they sent the kids over to tell her because

0:32:05.760 --> 0:32:07.520
<v Speaker 5>they were terrified over her and the. Brothers you know

0:32:07.520 --> 0:32:09.800
<v Speaker 5>what the brothers could be. Like and then you, know

0:32:09.880 --> 0:32:14.040
<v Speaker 5>but he also had really good. Friends he enjoyed his you,

0:32:14.080 --> 0:32:16.360
<v Speaker 5>know he had a great. Imagination he played down on

0:32:16.400 --> 0:32:20.040
<v Speaker 5>the creek bed and at. School you, know they all

0:32:20.120 --> 0:32:22.320
<v Speaker 5>thought he was a lovely. Kid all his friends loved.

0:32:22.400 --> 0:32:26.200
<v Speaker 5>Him but she was. Cruel she was, Cruel she was a.

0:32:26.200 --> 0:32:30.840
<v Speaker 2>Monster we would soon be learning all about this. Monster

0:32:31.920 --> 0:32:36.160
<v Speaker 2>around the kitchen table In kelly And rod's. Farmhouse just

0:32:36.320 --> 0:32:39.240
<v Speaker 2>the mention of The colonel triggered fevered.

0:32:39.280 --> 0:32:42.640
<v Speaker 5>Debate they think that that's what happens in everyone's head.

0:32:42.720 --> 0:32:47.840
<v Speaker 5>Exactly they, think they think that's. Commonplace that's what.

0:32:47.920 --> 0:32:51.520
<v Speaker 10>Happened so the sort of control that The colonel had

0:32:52.840 --> 0:32:57.680
<v Speaker 10>her Son, john it's so complete that the total control

0:32:58.040 --> 0:32:58.920
<v Speaker 10>is terrified to.

0:32:58.960 --> 0:33:06.200
<v Speaker 6>Me and he would always.

0:33:04.360 --> 0:33:05.360
<v Speaker 11>He could never please.

0:33:05.480 --> 0:33:14.880
<v Speaker 5>Her oh, yeah because you just want to. Please that's

0:33:14.920 --> 0:33:18.200
<v Speaker 5>like when When David patterson talks about the story of

0:33:18.400 --> 0:33:21.200
<v Speaker 5>Taking john down to his mother because he'd been had

0:33:21.200 --> 0:33:23.960
<v Speaker 5>His Paul. Gibson it's punched him and he had a

0:33:24.000 --> 0:33:26.400
<v Speaker 5>bleeding nose and she got a dirty rag off the,

0:33:26.400 --> 0:33:28.560
<v Speaker 5>thing wiped it and, said now go back and before

0:33:28.600 --> 0:33:31.479
<v Speaker 5>you came, home make sure he's bleeding worse than what you.

0:33:31.520 --> 0:33:47.320
<v Speaker 5>Were and this.

0:33:49.760 --> 0:33:54.160
<v Speaker 2>We would discover many curious and appalling things about the

0:33:54.240 --> 0:33:59.880
<v Speaker 2>colonel and her strange magnetic hold on her Son, stewart

0:34:01.880 --> 0:34:08.279
<v Speaker 2>about his childhood in young his alcoholic, father alf the

0:34:08.320 --> 0:34:12.279
<v Speaker 2>marriage breakup that Saw claire and Little johnny move To,

0:34:12.400 --> 0:34:20.960
<v Speaker 2>sydney and a Teenage reagan's descent into serious. Crime then

0:34:20.960 --> 0:34:25.600
<v Speaker 2>there's the enduring family rumor that When Claire reagan went

0:34:25.640 --> 0:34:29.880
<v Speaker 2>to live In, sydney she actually ran a few prostitutes

0:34:30.440 --> 0:34:33.920
<v Speaker 2>out of the house In Liverpool, Street darlinghurst to.

0:34:34.040 --> 0:34:39.960
<v Speaker 5>Survive the family never liked her at, all but there

0:34:40.040 --> 0:34:43.080
<v Speaker 5>was always this thing that she Got johnny into crime

0:34:43.520 --> 0:34:46.720
<v Speaker 5>because when she went To, sydney that she ran girls,

0:34:46.760 --> 0:34:49.080
<v Speaker 5>herself and he stood over those girls that she.

0:34:49.239 --> 0:34:53.120
<v Speaker 2>Ran so the story in the family is That Claire,

0:34:53.160 --> 0:34:56.239
<v Speaker 2>reagan when she left young and left her Husband alf

0:34:56.800 --> 0:34:59.200
<v Speaker 2>took her young son To sydney and they ended up

0:34:59.239 --> 0:35:01.919
<v Speaker 2>settling in Liver Pull street And. Darlinghurst and the word

0:35:01.960 --> 0:35:05.360
<v Speaker 2>in the family was that she ran essentially a small

0:35:05.400 --> 0:35:07.400
<v Speaker 2>brothel to make, it to make.

0:35:07.440 --> 0:35:11.319
<v Speaker 5>It, yep that's WHAT i always remember is that she

0:35:11.600 --> 0:35:14.560
<v Speaker 5>was the one that got him into that side of the.

0:35:14.600 --> 0:35:17.560
<v Speaker 2>GAME i, mean if, that if that was just a wild,

0:35:17.680 --> 0:35:20.840
<v Speaker 2>rumor why did it persist in the family?

0:35:20.960 --> 0:35:24.160
<v Speaker 5>Law, oh one hundred. Percent and this is like it's

0:35:24.239 --> 0:35:27.319
<v Speaker 5>always been the same stories repeated over and over and over,

0:35:27.400 --> 0:35:30.520
<v Speaker 5>again so far as that she had she'd run the,

0:35:30.520 --> 0:35:32.759
<v Speaker 5>brothels and that he'd worked for her and that's how

0:35:32.800 --> 0:35:33.640
<v Speaker 5>he got started in.

0:35:33.680 --> 0:35:39.840
<v Speaker 2>It, well but first we had to meet Marg Johnny

0:35:39.840 --> 0:35:43.920
<v Speaker 2>reagan's de facto, wife mother to his Daughters helen And

0:35:44.000 --> 0:35:50.360
<v Speaker 2>claire and to their Son John. Junior could she take

0:35:50.480 --> 0:35:54.640
<v Speaker 2>us inside the world of the last Of sydney's old

0:35:54.719 --> 0:36:00.600
<v Speaker 2>time gangsters during his heyday in the nineteen. Sixties could

0:36:00.640 --> 0:36:06.160
<v Speaker 2>she help us understand his murderous, temper his taste for,

0:36:06.360 --> 0:36:11.800
<v Speaker 2>violence and why history would attach anywhere up to twelve

0:36:12.080 --> 0:36:16.759
<v Speaker 2>murders to his, name including an innocent three year old.

0:36:16.800 --> 0:36:22.480
<v Speaker 2>Boy and what happened on that last day When, reagan

0:36:23.080 --> 0:36:28.560
<v Speaker 2>unarmed and, unprotected was a gunned down, mercilessly with one

0:36:28.600 --> 0:36:33.960
<v Speaker 2>of the killers delivering a, final point blank headshot to

0:36:34.040 --> 0:36:38.280
<v Speaker 2>make sure the boy From cherrytown was well and truly.

0:36:38.400 --> 0:36:42.879
<v Speaker 2>DEAD i had a frank discussion With kelly about what

0:36:43.000 --> 0:36:48.239
<v Speaker 2>marg might or might not decide to tell. Us, cooperative

0:36:48.360 --> 0:36:50.800
<v Speaker 2>you think by her, nature she, might like most, people

0:36:50.840 --> 0:36:52.640
<v Speaker 2>hold something. Back what do you reckon.

0:36:53.040 --> 0:36:57.759
<v Speaker 5>During mark's formative, years she's With, john and you know

0:36:57.800 --> 0:37:00.560
<v Speaker 5>the skills she's being taught by him is, it's you,

0:37:00.600 --> 0:37:03.520
<v Speaker 5>know to say, nothing to keep your mouth, Shut just

0:37:03.600 --> 0:37:06.120
<v Speaker 5>keep your mouth. Shut SO i THINK i think she

0:37:06.200 --> 0:37:09.920
<v Speaker 5>really wants to to open and tell all that she.

0:37:10.080 --> 0:37:13.000
<v Speaker 5>Knows but but you, know there's still that. Thing imagine

0:37:13.000 --> 0:37:15.719
<v Speaker 5>If anie marg did know something and then she tells the,

0:37:15.760 --> 0:37:19.400
<v Speaker 5>family like that's you, know the backlash to that that

0:37:19.480 --> 0:37:23.359
<v Speaker 5>she would perceive would be. Huge SO i think she'll tell.

0:37:23.440 --> 0:37:25.719
<v Speaker 5>US i think she wants to tell, us BUT i

0:37:25.960 --> 0:37:27.120
<v Speaker 5>don't know if she'll get over the.

0:37:27.120 --> 0:37:31.239
<v Speaker 2>Line, well why do you think after all these decades

0:37:31.239 --> 0:37:33.440
<v Speaker 2>she's she has agreed to talk to us?

0:37:33.600 --> 0:37:37.640
<v Speaker 5>Now, WELL i think partly because well she you, know

0:37:37.760 --> 0:37:40.239
<v Speaker 5>she loves. Us she loves. Us The reagan side don't

0:37:40.280 --> 0:37:42.719
<v Speaker 5>know she. Does what does she? Know like she lived with,

0:37:42.760 --> 0:37:50.239
<v Speaker 5>him she had three children with. Him, yes, yeah hard hard.

0:37:50.280 --> 0:37:52.600
<v Speaker 2>One and you, know you get.

0:37:52.440 --> 0:37:55.279
<v Speaker 5>To a certain age where you just want TO i

0:37:55.480 --> 0:37:59.120
<v Speaker 5>just want to, talk LIKE i think at that age

0:37:59.160 --> 0:38:01.920
<v Speaker 5>now where she probably does want to and she sees

0:38:01.960 --> 0:38:03.440
<v Speaker 5>how PASSIONATE i am about.

0:38:03.480 --> 0:38:07.799
<v Speaker 2>It do you think she still has a residue of?

0:38:07.880 --> 0:38:10.399
<v Speaker 5>Fear, NO i think she's as tough as old.

0:38:10.400 --> 0:38:15.799
<v Speaker 2>Bootstraps now that, Afternoon Mark reagan arrived with one of her.

0:38:15.880 --> 0:38:22.719
<v Speaker 2>Daughters she hadn't been too young in many. Years now

0:38:22.760 --> 0:38:26.320
<v Speaker 2>in her, seventies you could still see the stunning good

0:38:26.320 --> 0:38:30.960
<v Speaker 2>looks that had Attracted Johnny reagan all those years ago

0:38:31.040 --> 0:38:35.160
<v Speaker 2>In Sydney's King's, cross where he worked as a bouncer

0:38:35.640 --> 0:38:39.120
<v Speaker 2>on the door of The Whisky Go go nightclub In williams.

0:38:39.160 --> 0:38:43.239
<v Speaker 2>Street The slaters And reagans fired up the, barbie and

0:38:43.400 --> 0:38:47.560
<v Speaker 2>later we set up microphones At kelly's long kitchen, table

0:38:48.280 --> 0:38:52.200
<v Speaker 2>the scene of so many family, gatherings to begin our

0:38:52.280 --> 0:38:57.719
<v Speaker 2>interviews With. Marg the family started to drift out of the,

0:38:57.840 --> 0:39:03.279
<v Speaker 2>room But marg stop. Them she wanted them around her

0:39:03.680 --> 0:39:09.600
<v Speaker 2>when she. Talked she didn't want to do this. Alone, NO.

0:39:11.360 --> 0:39:14.600
<v Speaker 6>I don't want to keep repeating myself for. Everybody it's best,

0:39:14.640 --> 0:39:23.120
<v Speaker 6>said everyone's. Here, okay that's. GREAT i want that you're

0:39:23.120 --> 0:39:26.520
<v Speaker 6>not putting me. Off you don't put me. OFF i

0:39:26.640 --> 0:39:31.560
<v Speaker 6>got emotional WHEN i talk about my. Father, Okay so

0:39:32.239 --> 0:39:34.799
<v Speaker 6>for me to do, this you won't have to ask

0:39:34.840 --> 0:39:38.160
<v Speaker 6>me what. HAPPENED i know you guys know what happened

0:39:38.200 --> 0:39:40.400
<v Speaker 6>Because i've explained it to, Her but the lights Of

0:39:40.480 --> 0:39:48.879
<v Speaker 6>daniel And jeffrey and they don't. KNOW i have a boy, Here,

0:39:49.000 --> 0:39:51.719
<v Speaker 6>daniel that asked me, today what DID i say with this?

0:39:51.880 --> 0:39:55.160
<v Speaker 6>Me i'm going to tell YOU i Told. Daniel AND

0:39:55.360 --> 0:39:59.200
<v Speaker 6>i appreciate That daniel was mean enough and strong enough

0:39:59.239 --> 0:40:03.520
<v Speaker 6>to ask me that, question because that means there's appearing

0:40:03.680 --> 0:40:07.600
<v Speaker 6>person there in that person that wants to know what really. Happened,

0:40:08.640 --> 0:40:13.000
<v Speaker 6>okay and this is Why i'm doing, This, Okay so

0:40:13.080 --> 0:40:13.839
<v Speaker 6>what do you want to learn?

0:40:13.880 --> 0:40:21.319
<v Speaker 2>Now in the next episode Of The Gangster's, ghost we

0:40:21.440 --> 0:40:25.439
<v Speaker 2>take you Inside reagan's earliest years in Country New South

0:40:25.480 --> 0:40:32.239
<v Speaker 2>wales and the rocky relationship between his mismatched. Parents that

0:40:32.400 --> 0:40:36.000
<v Speaker 2>marriage never had a, chance and we find another monster

0:40:36.560 --> 0:40:40.279
<v Speaker 2>lurking in the shadows of this, Story reagan's own, mother

0:40:41.000 --> 0:40:45.880
<v Speaker 2>the formidable and Feared, claire known to all as The.

0:40:46.000 --> 0:40:50.399
<v Speaker 6>Colonel she belted him hat with a Stockwet she drove

0:40:50.560 --> 0:40:51.200
<v Speaker 6>him home.

0:40:51.080 --> 0:40:51.600
<v Speaker 3>Like he was a.

0:40:52.160 --> 0:40:56.000
<v Speaker 2>Beast so he had a tough, mother a, tough tough.

0:40:56.080 --> 0:41:13.880
<v Speaker 13>Lady The Gangster's ghost is a production Of The. Australian

0:41:14.000 --> 0:41:17.080
<v Speaker 13>it's written and presented by senior Writer Matthew condon and

0:41:17.200 --> 0:41:21.440
<v Speaker 13>produced and edited by multimedia Editor leat Samaglu. Our executive

0:41:21.480 --> 0:41:25.880
<v Speaker 13>producer Is, Me editorial Director Claire. Harvey special thanks To Lara,

0:41:25.920 --> 0:41:31.440
<v Speaker 13>Kamenos Erica, Rutlidge Kristin, Amiot Jasper, Leik Stephanie, Coombs Sean Callanan, Laughlin,

0:41:31.520 --> 0:41:36.600
<v Speaker 13>Clear Ryan, Osland Amanda Wynn, Williams Christine, Kellet Tarren, Blackhurst Magdalena,

0:41:36.640 --> 0:41:41.600
<v Speaker 13>Zajak Gisel, Buetti Genevieve, Brammel Lauren, Bruce Sus rolf And Jachini.

0:41:41.680 --> 0:41:44.680
<v Speaker 13>Carlson we can only do journalism like this with the

0:41:44.680 --> 0:41:48.319
<v Speaker 13>support OF us, subscribers who hear episodes first and get

0:41:48.360 --> 0:41:52.520
<v Speaker 13>full access to, photos, video news stories and, features plus

0:41:52.560 --> 0:41:56.000
<v Speaker 13>All australia's best journalism twenty four to. Seven join us

0:41:56.040 --> 0:41:58.240
<v Speaker 13>At gangstersghost dot com dot.

0:41:58.080 --> 0:42:31.040
<v Speaker 7>Au st st sting sting st st st st st

0:42:35.560 --> 0:42:35.880
<v Speaker 5>St