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Speaker 1: Goday, Thanks for listening to the show. Wherever you are

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Speaker 1: listening to this right now, on the elliptical bicycle, doing

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Speaker 1: your laundry, driving wherever you are, just try to imagine this.

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Speaker 1: Try to imagine you're on the way to a situation.

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Speaker 1: But it's a serious situation, one where you know that

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Speaker 1: when you get there, what you do, how you act,

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Speaker 1: even how you appear to others, how quickly how slowly

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Speaker 1: you do things could mean the difference between life and

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Speaker 1: death these other states. Now, right now, when you're thinking

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Speaker 1: on your way to that, what do you do? How

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Speaker 1: do you make sure that you're calm and then you're

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Speaker 1: ready and you can be of maximum service to the

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Speaker 1: people when you get there, And when it's all over,

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Speaker 1: how do you deal with how it turned out? Well,

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Speaker 1: when you're a paramedic, that is your job, every day,

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Speaker 1: multiple times a day, that is what you do. And

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Speaker 1: today we are going to meet, we are going to

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Speaker 1: get to know and we're going to get a really

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Speaker 1: interesting look at the world of an intensive care paramedic.

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Speaker 1: And named Sally Gould. She's written an incredible book. You're

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Speaker 1: going to get so much out of this, I guarantee it,

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Speaker 1: but I do need to play some ads because I've

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Speaker 1: got to keep the lights on. Back in a month. Good,

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Speaker 1: Thanks so much for listening to the show today. My

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Speaker 1: guest is Sally Gould. She's just written a book called Frog,

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Speaker 1: The Secret Diary of a Paramedic. The book is her diary.

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Speaker 1: It's based upon her diary that she kept during training

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Speaker 1: and actually working as an intensive care paramedic. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: we'll get to what Frog means. Sally is an incredible person.

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Speaker 1: She's bright, she's open, she's caring, she's intelligent. What I

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Speaker 1: found really interesting about this conversation is that the scenario

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Speaker 1: was describing earlier. That's an intense amount of pressure. How

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Speaker 1: do you stay calm in that moment? How do you

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Speaker 1: remember everything? How do you make sure your brain works?

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Speaker 1: She shares some really really interesting techniques that she uses

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Speaker 1: to stay calm under pressure, how she copes with the

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Speaker 1: literally the stress and the trauma of her job day

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Speaker 1: after day, including why having a sense of humor, yes,

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Speaker 1: even about the dark stuff, is vital for survival. We

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Speaker 1: also cover her experience of trauma, we talk a bit

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Speaker 1: about death, and we also talk about why she absolutely

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Speaker 1: loves what she does. There's a moment actually in this

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Speaker 1: conversation when I ask her about the magic of this job,

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Speaker 1: and she goes into direction I did not expect, and

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Speaker 1: it is one of the more wonderful answers I've ever

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Speaker 1: heard on this show. No matter what it is that

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Speaker 1: you do in your day, you're going to find something

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Speaker 1: quite valuable through what Sally has to share with us today.

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Speaker 1: I most certainly did enjoy this chat with Sally Gould.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for coming in, Thanks for having that. I'm

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Speaker 1: very grateful that you came, and I'm grateful you wrote

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Speaker 1: this book. Both my parents were doctors and in a

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Speaker 1: time before mobile phones, as we you know, were four

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Speaker 1: boys and their family and Eliphs were in Adelaide and

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Speaker 1: we lived in Brisbane. We would drive and so as

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Speaker 1: a kid, I saw a lot of stuff because they're

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Speaker 1: doctors and they pull over when there's.

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Speaker 2: Accidents, front row seats.

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Speaker 1: Mate, some of the things I've seen, And he listened

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Speaker 1: to the way my parents talked about what it was.

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Speaker 1: You know, I didn't quite understand that not everybody faced

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Speaker 1: life and death every day. I mean, mum later retrained

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Speaker 1: as a GP and my dad became a rimatologist. But

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Speaker 1: they both did their time in er and triach and

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Speaker 1: as an atheist. Mum was, you know, she saw some shit,

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Speaker 1: and so it took me a little while to understand

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Speaker 1: that not everybody's parents think like that, nor talk like

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Speaker 1: that about other people. Your dad was also in the game.

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Speaker 2: We had a similar childhood. The dinner time stories were

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Speaker 2: things that other kids were not hearing. For years and

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Speaker 2: years later, I was shown photos that looking back, oh,

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Speaker 2: that probably wasn't appropriate for a child.

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Speaker 1: Oh, shed of course, because you were younger than me.

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Speaker 1: So he had a phone to show.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we had textbooks, we had photos. He did some

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Speaker 2: assignment on this horrific accident, and he was preparing the

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Speaker 2: presentation on our dinner table. Oh wow, So I saw

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Speaker 2: that and we talked about that, and I did learn

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Speaker 2: that kind of that way that tragedy sits next to

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Speaker 2: a humor in a paramedic's mind from an early age.

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Speaker 1: We'll get to that. We'll get to that. But were

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Speaker 1: you young when you realize that dad's job's kind of different.

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Speaker 2: I think I heard it from a lot of people

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Speaker 2: as they spoke to him, like, oh, your job must

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Speaker 2: be so horrific. I don't know how you do it.

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Speaker 2: And I was taking that in as a child, just thinking, yeah,

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Speaker 2: dad does an important job that not many people do.

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Speaker 2: It is unique. It does mean he's gone for long shifts.

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Speaker 2: But I didn't have that concept as a child. It

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Speaker 2: was just he was going and doing something impressive to

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Speaker 2: everyone else and then coming home to us.

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Speaker 1: As an adult, did you start to recognize some things

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Speaker 1: that might have been Ah, like, I see that Dad

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Speaker 1: might have needed a bit more of a debrief after

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Speaker 1: that one.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I was very shielded. They did a

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Speaker 2: very good job in him leaving work at work, at

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Speaker 2: least shielding it from us kids, and we didn't.

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Speaker 1: Have less It's on the living room table and he's LEXI.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, but that was the funny side of things.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, I guess him being affected by a job, didn't.

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Speaker 2: I didn't ever sense that that was let to overflow

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Speaker 2: to us, which I'm very grateful for.

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Speaker 1: What was it about? Because the book is kind of

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Speaker 1: based upon some journaling that you did while you were

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Speaker 1: in the gig. What was it about journaling that attracted you?

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Speaker 2: When we were at university, we had to do a

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Speaker 2: placement on an ambulance, so you're the third person strapped

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Speaker 2: in the back with the seat belt, trying to crane

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Speaker 2: my head around, trying to look at everything, trying to

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Speaker 2: get involved, trying to do the skills, but also just

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Speaker 2: being in complete awe of these incredibly competent paramedics. And

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Speaker 2: we had to keep a keep a clinical journal, which was,

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Speaker 2: in my mind the boring stuff like what patient did

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Speaker 2: you see? How old were they, what was wrong with them?

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Speaker 2: Did you do any skills that you can tick off

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Speaker 2: for your competencies? But I thought there's so much more

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Speaker 2: to this job. I wanted to capture the way the

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Speaker 2: paramedics got coffee in their break and the way they

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Speaker 2: had the mental space to go shopping for a pair

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Speaker 2: of pants when there wasn't a job happening, the way

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Speaker 2: they could joke about things, drop someone off at the hospital,

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Speaker 2: and then just go back to chatting about whatever they

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Speaker 2: were chatting about about days off or which wine they

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Speaker 2: had with dinner, And that was what I wanted to capture.

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Speaker 2: So I just so naturally wanted to write it down

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Speaker 2: after I got home from every shift, and that turned

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Speaker 2: into this sort of ongoing journal where I just thought,

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Speaker 2: I have to write this down because it feels important,

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Speaker 2: like I'm in this crash course of paramedicine, and I'm

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Speaker 2: falling in love with the job, and I just want

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Speaker 2: to remember every amazing second of this before it becomes

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Speaker 2: just a memory.

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Speaker 1: As you're ticking off the thing, as you know you're studying,

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Speaker 1: you're saying, which competencies did you? Like, I'm assuming that

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Speaker 1: it's like I put an IV bag in someone.

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Speaker 2: Well, not even that complicated, Like I did a primary survey,

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Speaker 2: I did a blood I counted someone's respiration rate.

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Speaker 1: But like I told the mom of a kid who's

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Speaker 1: in a lot of trouble, it's going to be okay.

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Speaker 2: Is that a box you tick as a ride along?

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Speaker 2: You don't even have that responsibility, but that.

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Speaker 1: Is Is that a thing that's a part of the competency?

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Speaker 1: Is that part of the training? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: I do remember there being a lot about soft skills

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Speaker 2: in there as well, so when whether you'd been seen

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Speaker 2: to communicate with the patient's family. But I mean that

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Speaker 2: first ride along, I was twenty, I was had zero

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Speaker 2: life experience. I was in a university course learning the

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Speaker 2: textbook side of this, But that doesn't really give you

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Speaker 2: any insight into what it really is like to suddenly

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Speaker 2: just step into someone's home and they're in the worst

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Speaker 2: day of their life, and you've got relative screaming, and

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Speaker 2: you've got someone that needs medical attention, and you've got

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Speaker 2: fifty steps you need to get down to get them

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Speaker 2: back to the ambulance, and just all of that comes

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Speaker 2: together with these clinicians who just walk around like it's

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Speaker 2: their average day. And I think that's the part that

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Speaker 2: got me like, well, I need to I've got so

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Speaker 2: much to learn in so many areas. I don't even

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Speaker 2: know where to start. How about I just write some

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Speaker 2: things down and that might consolidate it.

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Speaker 1: Unless you had the intro from your father's experience of

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Speaker 1: the the way that humor is used to handle things,

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Speaker 1: I never my parents like I have my sense of humor,

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Speaker 1: which is dark, because they use humor to get past it. Right.

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Speaker 1: There's a body of mine is a doctor, and he

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Speaker 1: he lamented when they started making the little records at

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Speaker 1: the end of a patient's bed they made in public.

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Speaker 1: You'd like you had a patient was able to see.

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Speaker 1: And he said, well, before that, you used to write

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Speaker 1: FLK at the top, which means funny looking. Kid goes, look,

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Speaker 1: I work in pediatric oncology, all right, I know the

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Speaker 1: next doctor is going to sit here and look at

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Speaker 1: a seven year old dying of cancer, yep, And I

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Speaker 1: need to give them a little something because they've got

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Speaker 1: to come back the next day. And this is a

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Speaker 1: kind of like in the world where the title of

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Speaker 1: the book comes from, which I kind of love frog yep.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So intensive care paramedics back when the role came in,

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Speaker 2: they were given this higher skill set and they were

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Speaker 2: dispatched to the very sickest of patients and the other

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Speaker 2: paramedics sort of looked at them and went, oh, well,

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Speaker 2: everything you touch croaks, and out of that was born

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Speaker 2: this concept that they were frogs. And yeah, I started

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Speaker 2: thinking about it. If you think about it too hard,

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Speaker 2: it doesn't actually make sense, and it's not true. Not

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Speaker 2: everyone that we touched croaks, but the nickname, it's it

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Speaker 2: just stuck, and to this day we're called frogs. So

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Speaker 2: it's just another little, you know, nod to some paramedic humor, perhaps.

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Speaker 1: But I did love it. In the book, you talk

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Speaker 1: about CPR with a full bladder, no good, trying to

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Speaker 1: do drug calculations without any coffee freaking possible. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean you're doing CPR on someone like you really

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Speaker 1: have to. I mean, I've I don't know if you

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Speaker 1: realize I've narrated eighteen series of Bondai Rescue. I've seen

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Speaker 1: enough pre edit. CPRS is way more violent than people

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Speaker 1: any idea of. It's not the one I didn't swim

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Speaker 1: and survive in primary school, that's for sure. So when

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Speaker 1: i read that CPR with a full bladder, I'm.

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Speaker 2: Like, yep, yep, because it's not the one on the

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Speaker 2: Polish TV shows where they're gently going on the actor

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Speaker 2: so that they don't injure their chest. It's full blown exertion. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and no good Oh yeah. It all pops and crackles

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Speaker 2: and snaps under your hands, and that means you're doing

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Speaker 2: the right thing.

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Speaker 1: I guess what now you're life. Yeah, if you get there.

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Speaker 2: I'm not sorry about the broken rips.

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Speaker 1: No, that's what Timmy does alay about it. But you know,

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Speaker 1: trying to figure out stuff, the incredible intensity of what

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Speaker 1: you're doing. You know, the survival rate of CPR is

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Speaker 1: way less than television we have is believe.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, under ten percent.

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Speaker 1: It's really, really, really low. What does making a joke

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Speaker 1: about that do for you and for the for the

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Speaker 1: team driving their driving back.

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Speaker 2: I think if we were as emotional and owning the

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Speaker 2: grief of every job as much as thea and the relatives,

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Speaker 2: we would not survive a day in the job. It's

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Speaker 2: that simple. I think it enables us to distance ourselves

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Speaker 2: a little bit from the patients, and not in a

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Speaker 2: cruel way, in a survival, a survival way, I think,

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Speaker 2: And it does become a job for us. And on

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Speaker 2: the way to the job, I'm trying to scull my

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Speaker 2: coffee because I can't operate without it in my system.

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Speaker 2: I don't want it to go cold while I'm on

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Speaker 2: this scene for an hour and a half, and we

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Speaker 2: are trying to stay in quite a normal level of

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Speaker 2: arousal so that when we get there, we're focused, we're calm,

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Speaker 2: we've got fine motor skills, we've got the presence of

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Speaker 2: mind to do all the things we need to do,

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Speaker 2: because if we started getting upset about what we were

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Speaker 2: going to see or panicking about what to do, would

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Speaker 2: be useless. And I think that's how we survive maybe.

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Speaker 1: And you certainly wouldn't want to. And you mentioned the

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Speaker 1: fine motor skills, and that's so important because if you're

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Speaker 1: if you're trying to get a line in trying to

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Speaker 1: get sorry, a line in. When you're putting a bag

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Speaker 1: of IV and you're looking for the vein, it's like

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Speaker 1: the reverse blood test. You're putting something in versus out right.

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Speaker 1: If anyone's ever had it, you know, blood test taken,

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Speaker 1: then someone's got to shake your hand. It's not good.

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Speaker 1: You don't want to have your adrenaline so high that

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Speaker 1: your fingers.

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Speaker 2: Sh And we're not seeing the patients that are going

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Speaker 2: to the blood bank who have had a leader of

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Speaker 2: fluid beforehand, who are well, we're going to the people

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Speaker 2: who have called us because they've lost half their blood

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Speaker 2: into the gutter after an accident, and so their veins

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Speaker 2: are harder to find. But that's also why we don't run,

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Speaker 2: because you know, if we run and set off our

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Speaker 2: nervous systems and we there get to the patient and

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Speaker 2: we can't do anything.

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Speaker 1: Hang on, talk me through that is it? Tell me

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Speaker 1: about intensive care paramedics. It's incredibly urgent. People are literally

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Speaker 1: dying forty five steps away from you, but you walk,

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Speaker 1: you don't run.

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Speaker 2: War Well, firstly, I'm carrying a lot of heavy gear.

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Speaker 2: I don't want to drop it or break it. I

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Speaker 2: don't want to fall over on the way there, and

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Speaker 2: I don't want to arrive out of breath or lose

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Speaker 2: my fine motor skills, and arriving with a poised pace

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Speaker 2: conveys the calm that we are arriving with. Can you

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Speaker 2: imagine if the person coming to help you in an

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Speaker 2: emergency was screaming as loud as you, running as fast

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Speaker 2: as you, you probably wouldn't have a lot of confidence

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Speaker 2: in their skills. But for us, it is every day

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Speaker 2: and we are very aware of what needs to be

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Speaker 2: done when we arrive, and that starts before we're even

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Speaker 2: at the job, in getting in the headspace of this

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Speaker 2: is work. I know my guidelines, I know the medications

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Speaker 2: I need to use, I know our roles, and we'll

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Speaker 2: get there when we get there.

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Speaker 1: You're right in the book that you thought, because you

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Speaker 1: had such an intellectual power and the textbooks, I'm going

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Speaker 1: to be fine at this. But you talk about the

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Speaker 1: gray areas that were not in any of the textbooks,

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Speaker 1: these things that were kind of gooey and tricky and

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Speaker 1: things you had to face within yourself. How do you

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Speaker 1: go about even identifying the things that the gaps that

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Speaker 1: you have and that knowledge.

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Speaker 2: And that's the overwhelming part when you first arrive on

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Speaker 2: the job and there's so many factors that and what

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Speaker 2: I found in the journals of all these things I've

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Speaker 2: observed but not understood and reflected on later and being like, Oh,

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Speaker 2: that's why the paramedics said that or did that, or

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Speaker 2: thought about that or prepared that piece of equipment. They

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Speaker 2: knew what was going to happen next. And it can

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Speaker 2: be overwhelming, I guess of thinking about how much you've

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Speaker 2: got to learn, because it doesn't fit into a nice,

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Speaker 2: neat category of learn all my pharmacology or my medications.

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Speaker 2: Easy learn all of my guidelines and protocols. Easy learn

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Speaker 2: how to talk to someone who's just learned their loved

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Speaker 2: one has died with no idea of how they're going

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Speaker 2: to respond. You cannot learn that from a textbook. And

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Speaker 2: I think that's why paramedics become such storytellers, is because

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Speaker 2: there's so much wisdom in the experiences we've had on

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Speaker 2: jobs that haven't gone as well as we'd hoped, or

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Speaker 2: ones where we could do something better next time. And

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Speaker 2: if we pass on that learning to our colleagues, there's

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Speaker 2: this rich knowledge about so much more than the textbook

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Speaker 2: side of the job, and so soaking it all in

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Speaker 2: from mentors, watching observing, seeing things go well, things that

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Speaker 2: could have gone better, and trying to create that into

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Speaker 2: some sort of learning for myself.

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Speaker 1: I obviously go a lot into this in the book,

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Speaker 1: But is there a moment where you realized I'm quite

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Speaker 1: out of my depth here and one of your mentors

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Speaker 1: are one of the people that you were on the

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Speaker 1: ride along with help you out.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, as a brand new probation. I think I was

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Speaker 2: only a few weeks into the job. It was the

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Speaker 2: middle of the night, about three am, and I just

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Speaker 2: like shut my eyes and maybe gone into that sort

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Speaker 2: of half sleep zone. And we get a job and

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Speaker 2: it's cold, and it's winter, and there's this woman and

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Speaker 2: she is on the edge of death, of taking her

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Speaker 2: last breath, and I can hear her crackly breathing as

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Speaker 2: we arrive, and I look at her and she's gray.

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Speaker 2: She's leaning forward, struggling to take a breath so much

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Speaker 2: that she can't even speak to us, and she's just

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Speaker 2: dripping in sweat. And of course I've learned from a

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Speaker 2: textbook that anyone that looks that way is unwell, but

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Speaker 2: also just that sense of looking at her. My brain

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Speaker 2: could only come up with she looks like she's about

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Speaker 2: to die, and then I had nothing else in my brain,

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Speaker 2: and it's yeah, there's fatigue, there's getting used to the job.

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Speaker 2: But my partner, who was a qualified paramedic and that's

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Speaker 2: why we're partnered with a senior colleague, was straight into it,

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Speaker 2: doing what he needed to do, administering medication, giving me instructions,

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Speaker 2: and I just could not get going. I just frozen,

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Speaker 2: and I couldn't match any of that university textbook knowledge

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Speaker 2: to what was happening, and I just wasn't on top

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Speaker 2: of it. And I had a moment. He sent me

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Speaker 2: out to the car to get the stretcher set up,

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Speaker 2: and at that moment, I knew that he knew that

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Speaker 2: I was out of my depth, and it's sort of

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Speaker 2: all just I had a moment where I thought, Okay,

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Speaker 2: I know what's going on here. I came back into

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Speaker 2: the job and could then be helpful, but I just

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Speaker 2: wanted I asked him afterwards, like how did you know?

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Speaker 2: How are you so on the ball, And you know,

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Speaker 2: he was so humble, He's like, ah, you know, it

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Speaker 2: just happens, but it's just he's done the job over

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Speaker 2: and over and he's seen that patient again and again,

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Speaker 2: not exactly the same, but he knows enough to know

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Speaker 2: what's wrong with them, and he doesn't have to think

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Speaker 2: before he's already in action doing what the patient needs.

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Speaker 1: Also, he understood what you were going through and had

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Speaker 1: the foresight to say, rather, can you just sit here

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Speaker 1: and take this pass, I'm going to go He's like,

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Speaker 1: can you go out? Yeah? He was like, I know

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Speaker 1: what you need here, you need a minute not here, yes,

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Speaker 1: and then in a minute you'll be back after having

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Speaker 1: been outside the cold night air on your face, yep,

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Speaker 1: a bit of perspective. You walk back in here with

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Speaker 1: fresh eyes.

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Speaker 2: And I'll never forget that lesson because he gave me

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Speaker 2: the time to sort of come to it myself. And

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Speaker 2: I think that's really important with on the job learning,

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Speaker 2: is that if your training officer is competent enough to

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Speaker 2: give you a little bit of time and space to

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Speaker 2: get there, you'll get there eventually, and then the lesson

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Speaker 2: becomes so much more memorable because you haven't just been

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Speaker 2: given the answer or prompted. They've let you sort of

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Speaker 2: reach it. And that job was now fifteen about fifteen

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Speaker 2: years ago, and I still remember it like it was yesterday.

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Speaker 1: Speaking on the subject of learning, there's a there's is

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Speaker 1: certainly six words, but it's like the most wonderful way

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Speaker 1: of framing how it is we learn stuff. See one,

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Speaker 1: do one, teach one. I really really like that. Now

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Speaker 1: I'm not an intensive care paramedic, I'm not about to

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Speaker 1: be one, But why does that framework work? And why

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Speaker 1: is it adaptable? Because I started thinking about it, she said, actually,

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Speaker 1: you could really use it anywhere, couldn't you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And so my preceptor when I was a ride along,

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Speaker 2: had that mantra, and that's basically how he taught me.

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Speaker 2: You know, he wouldn't put me in the deep end

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Speaker 2: with a patient in a critical situation and make me

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Speaker 2: do a skill I'd never done before, but he made

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Speaker 2: sure that I saw him do it and maybe spoke

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Speaker 2: around about why he did it, how he did it,

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Speaker 2: those types of things. But then it was the next,

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Speaker 2: very next one. You're in like it's your turn to

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Speaker 2: do it, and learning those skills under that time pressure

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Speaker 2: also consolidated that learning a million times faster than sitting

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Speaker 2: in the UNI hall doing the exam on pathophysiology, and

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Speaker 2: so him being competent in his skill set enough to

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Speaker 2: allow me to have that moment was amazing. And then

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Speaker 2: obviously the next one's teach one, so you know, I

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Speaker 2: passed my knowledge on to the UNI student that didn't

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Speaker 2: get such a good placement as me and say I

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Speaker 2: got to do this skill and this is how I

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Speaker 2: did it and this is what I found hard, or

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Speaker 2: you know, those types of things. But it translates, as

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Speaker 2: you say, lots of places.

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Speaker 1: Because the phases of learning are all kind of there

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Speaker 1: because you're doing one like you might be unsure, but

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Speaker 1: you know enough. But what I particularly like the last

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Speaker 1: one about showing another person how to do it kind

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Speaker 1: of forces you to go, well, I'm thinking about this

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Speaker 1: in my shorthand how am I going to explain it

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Speaker 1: as simply as possible to make sure they understand? And

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Speaker 1: it really kind of consoled it. As you mentioned, it

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Speaker 1: consolidates the skill in such a way.

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Speaker 2: And it irons out like, well why do you do

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Speaker 2: it that way? Like is there a reason? And you think, oh,

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Speaker 2: I've never thought, oh, actually it probably is because if

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Speaker 2: you did it this other way that wouldn't work. And

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Speaker 2: then that becomes such a greater understanding than just yeah, could.

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Speaker 1: We talk about the balance between wanting to provide care

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Speaker 1: and compassionate care and having empathy but also not faffing

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Speaker 1: around so you don't you know, mess it up and

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Speaker 1: that line, that balance between yeah, care and look, I

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Speaker 1: don't want to be clinical here, but we're going to

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Speaker 1: have to go and we're going to have to do

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Speaker 1: this now you talk, you know, don't be too gentle

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Speaker 1: was one of the things that you wrote about, and

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Speaker 1: I'm interested to kind of know where that line is

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Speaker 1: for you.

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Speaker 2: I think people can panic in emergency situations, but seeing

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Speaker 2: someone operate assertively and calmly is what gives them the

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Speaker 2: confidence that you know what you're doing. And so I mean,

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Speaker 2: some people might call it my mum voice, but sometimes

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Speaker 2: that voice comes out where I know what needs to happen,

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Speaker 2: and I can see your panicking. It's okay, you know,

427
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Speaker 2: we've got this situation under control, and I need you

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Speaker 2: to do this. It might be assigning them a job,

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Speaker 2: or giving them information, or even letting them know that

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Speaker 2: you'll get to them when you can get to them.

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Speaker 2: And I need to be hands on, you know, clinical,

432
00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:54,320
Speaker 2: and we often use like patient centered care, so I'm

433
00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:57,159
Speaker 2: not having a personal argument with you, or it's actually

434
00:20:57,160 --> 00:20:59,399
Speaker 2: for the best of your loved one who is the patient,

435
00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:02,119
Speaker 2: and that's the focus of everyone here. So whether that

436
00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:04,160
Speaker 2: means all our hands are on deck and we don't

437
00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:06,840
Speaker 2: have time to be gentle and kind and have a

438
00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:09,639
Speaker 2: long discussion about it, then that needs to happen. But

439
00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:14,600
Speaker 2: I think there is always time to inform people what's

440
00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:16,800
Speaker 2: going on, or at least that you'll get to explaining

441
00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:19,280
Speaker 2: things when you get a moment. It is a hard balance.

442
00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:22,239
Speaker 1: You're there to help them, so do it properly. That

443
00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:24,840
Speaker 1: was a great line, which I really like.

444
00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:27,959
Speaker 2: I think I was super I was a very timid person.

445
00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:32,240
Speaker 2: I was introverted, and I hardly had any life experience.

446
00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:35,520
Speaker 2: So doing these things where you've got to step up

447
00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:38,360
Speaker 2: and do your job properly felt all these invasive things

448
00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:40,639
Speaker 2: to other people. It felt like I didn't I hadn't

449
00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:43,200
Speaker 2: earned that right yet, And so when I was doing

450
00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:46,040
Speaker 2: my assessments, I might be a little bit soft and

451
00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:47,880
Speaker 2: a little bit oh, I just need to move this,

452
00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:50,920
Speaker 2: and my preceptor was like, no, No, this is your job.

453
00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:53,880
Speaker 2: You have a role. You need to do it properly

454
00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:56,480
Speaker 2: because you're the person that's now here to advocate for

455
00:21:56,560 --> 00:21:58,959
Speaker 2: that patient, and I had to learn that because I

456
00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:04,280
Speaker 2: wasn't that outgoing, confident person. I hadn't yet learned that

457
00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:06,959
Speaker 2: I had that right in that role to do it,

458
00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:10,719
Speaker 2: and I was probably quite timid when I started.

459
00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:13,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, in many ways, if you show up with all

460
00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:17,840
Speaker 1: the gear, well you're the boss, now, I will you know,

461
00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:20,480
Speaker 1: for most part, For the most part, I'll defer to

462
00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:24,680
Speaker 1: what you're saying, unless things are pretty out of control.

463
00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:28,840
Speaker 1: How what's it like when you're in You're trying to

464
00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:30,760
Speaker 1: help someone on the very worst day of their life,

465
00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:33,720
Speaker 1: and you and your team have to kind of think

466
00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:36,200
Speaker 1: about your own safety and think, we're going to have

467
00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:37,760
Speaker 1: to get the cops here, this is going to kick off.

468
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:42,080
Speaker 2: Yes, our safety is number one priority. It's non negotiable

469
00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:44,320
Speaker 2: because we all have families to go home to, and

470
00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:49,680
Speaker 2: unfortunately we are seeing some violence towards paramedics. But I've

471
00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:51,280
Speaker 2: got a family that I need to get home to.

472
00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:54,600
Speaker 2: So the particular service I work for backs us that

473
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:56,680
Speaker 2: if we don't feel safe going into a job, there

474
00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:59,000
Speaker 2: is no pressure to go in because it actually doesn't

475
00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:02,720
Speaker 2: matter how sick or injured someone inside is. I also

476
00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:04,720
Speaker 2: don't want to become a patient along with all of

477
00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:08,359
Speaker 2: my colleagues, and so we're very good at picking up

478
00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:10,840
Speaker 2: on all those cues, and we get that gut feeling

479
00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:12,960
Speaker 2: that just tells you something's not right, and if you

480
00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:16,639
Speaker 2: get that, you action it. Let's call the police, let's

481
00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:19,880
Speaker 2: stage and wait outside. Let's have another think about where

482
00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:21,840
Speaker 2: we're going in. Can the patient come to us? All

483
00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:24,360
Speaker 2: these types of things that you get very good at noticing,

484
00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:27,080
Speaker 2: like where's the exits, how many doors are though, how

485
00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:29,600
Speaker 2: many people are home, what's the vibe of everyone in

486
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:32,480
Speaker 2: the room. Can I see any weapons, things that people

487
00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:34,600
Speaker 2: might use as weapons. There are all things that start

488
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:37,320
Speaker 2: to run through your head when when you've had an

489
00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:40,360
Speaker 2: experience where unfortunately you're more worried about your safety than

490
00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:43,120
Speaker 2: the critical nature of the patient.

491
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:47,000
Speaker 1: So, certainly for someone's loved one, you really can't predict

492
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:50,160
Speaker 1: who's going to have a reaction to seeing someone they love,

493
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:52,639
Speaker 1: you know, in such a pain fame perfal statae.

494
00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:55,600
Speaker 2: There's such a wide range of responses, and I don't

495
00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:59,320
Speaker 2: think we can label any of them as normal or abnormal,

496
00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:04,680
Speaker 2: But we are good at noticing this person looks angry,

497
00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:08,280
Speaker 2: but actually it's probably scared or sad, you know, and

498
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:11,240
Speaker 2: if I can de escalate that, and over the years

499
00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:14,280
Speaker 2: you get really good at that, in addressing their feelings,

500
00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:17,280
Speaker 2: acknowledging them, validating them, giving them a bit of space

501
00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:20,280
Speaker 2: for that. We can often just see the feelings underneath.

502
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:23,959
Speaker 2: But yeah, some people can be absolutely hysterical enough watching

503
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:26,520
Speaker 2: which is fair enough. I mean, that kind of response

504
00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:29,560
Speaker 2: has probably been pretty trained out of me, but I

505
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:32,919
Speaker 2: can appreciate it. This might be the one hundredth patient

506
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:35,240
Speaker 2: I've seen this week, and for them it's the first

507
00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:37,719
Speaker 2: time in their life they've ever been exposed to something

508
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:39,280
Speaker 2: this horrendous.

509
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:42,439
Speaker 1: There's a I've looked and tried to find he was

510
00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:46,640
Speaker 1: a Navy seal master chief in the Vietnam War. That's

511
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:49,000
Speaker 1: the closest I could get to where the quote came from.

512
00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:54,320
Speaker 1: But when he trained people, his line was calm it

513
00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:59,720
Speaker 1: is contagious. What have you noticed about your ability to

514
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:03,800
Speaker 1: stay calm or be calm, or or broadcast calm to

515
00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:07,239
Speaker 1: a room that's like that and you're down regulating, Have

516
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:08,680
Speaker 1: you noticed that affected room?

517
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:12,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a lot of power in the way we

518
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:16,440
Speaker 2: use our body language, our tone, the pace, even the

519
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:19,679
Speaker 2: pauses in our speech, which can control a room, and

520
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:22,639
Speaker 2: as an intensive care paramedic, I'm arriving often as the

521
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:25,879
Speaker 2: backup to other junior paramedics, and I think it all

522
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:29,840
Speaker 2: flows and energy of a scene flows from me, and

523
00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:32,600
Speaker 2: so quite often my job isn't that I need to

524
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:35,919
Speaker 2: offer an extra skill. I'm there for reassurance to the

525
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 2: paramedics who are treating that they're doing the right thing,

526
00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:40,480
Speaker 2: that everything's going well, that we've got a plan. We've

527
00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:42,719
Speaker 2: got a plan B, we've got a plan C, that

528
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:45,760
Speaker 2: everything's taken care of in terms of communicating with relatives.

529
00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:48,199
Speaker 2: And once I arrive with that sense of calm, my

530
00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:50,880
Speaker 2: paramedic colleagues take on that sense of calm and then

531
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:53,800
Speaker 2: that flows onto relatives and patients. And you can see

532
00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:56,240
Speaker 2: it because if I speak really fast and I speak

533
00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:58,000
Speaker 2: really high on this is what it's happened. Now, Oh

534
00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:00,320
Speaker 2: my good, as we haven't done this, like the scene

535
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 2: goes to absolute shit.

536
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:02,280
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah.

537
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:05,920
Speaker 2: And if you lose that, you've lost everyone, You've lost everything,

538
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:09,280
Speaker 2: You've lost any sense of control. But there's a moment

539
00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:12,440
Speaker 2: that I walk in to a house and it happens

540
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:16,240
Speaker 2: just before where I can just say to myself, just

541
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:20,520
Speaker 2: take a breath, and physically slow myself. Sometimes I have

542
00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:23,439
Speaker 2: a little habit that I don't talk about often, but

543
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:25,640
Speaker 2: I have a habit of singing a particular song which

544
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:27,960
Speaker 2: I shall not name, and I might hum it on

545
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:30,320
Speaker 2: the way to a job. But the song only works

546
00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:33,679
Speaker 2: at a certain tempo, which is very slow. So I

547
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:35,679
Speaker 2: can't speed up that song in my mind. Otherwise it

548
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:36,200
Speaker 2: doesn't sound.

549
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:39,000
Speaker 1: Is it based in your anatomy work? Does it involve

550
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:42,640
Speaker 1: a neck and a back? No?

551
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 2: No, because that's a pretty slow one, this song that

552
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,040
Speaker 2: sort of needs to sit back. And if I hum

553
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:50,199
Speaker 2: that to myself, I can't speed it up and it

554
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:52,800
Speaker 2: forces me. It's no diggity from Black's tree is not

555
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:55,639
Speaker 2: disclosing as it is. I watched, I watched you look away.

556
00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:57,359
Speaker 2: It's no dignity from blackstick.

557
00:26:57,560 --> 00:26:59,720
Speaker 1: But I get it. I understand like having those little

558
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 1: trees to remind you, ah, this is where we are. Yeah.

559
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:07,000
Speaker 2: So for some people that might be some mindfulness of

560
00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:09,600
Speaker 2: body awareness. For some people it might be slow breathing.

561
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:12,400
Speaker 2: But you can get yourself worked up because you're driving

562
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:14,520
Speaker 2: their lights and sirens, You've got new notes dropping down

563
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:16,520
Speaker 2: onto your data terminal. You're trying to get your gloves

564
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:19,240
Speaker 2: on your stethoscope, you're navigating, the map's dropped out, you're

565
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:20,840
Speaker 2: trying to get your phone up. This is all happening

566
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:23,000
Speaker 2: and you haven't even arrived, but you don't want to

567
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:25,080
Speaker 2: arrive in that state. So there's a moment that even

568
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:26,880
Speaker 2: if that's happened. On the drive here, you've been called

569
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:28,320
Speaker 2: off a job, You've had to chuck a UEI, you've

570
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:30,560
Speaker 2: almost hit a car that pulled out in front of you.

571
00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:33,320
Speaker 2: Your lights and sirens are on, this is blaring. You know,

572
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:36,080
Speaker 2: people are honking at you. You hop out of the car.

573
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:38,639
Speaker 2: I get my equipment, and the way I put my

574
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:41,840
Speaker 2: stethoscope around is always in the same controlled manner, and

575
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:43,639
Speaker 2: I have that song in my head, or I have

576
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:46,000
Speaker 2: a few deep breaths and I'm not rushing.

577
00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:48,680
Speaker 1: Having a couple of things that you do when you're

578
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:51,680
Speaker 1: on the way, like either as your exiting the van

579
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:54,119
Speaker 1: or whatever. And this could apply to picking up your

580
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:56,560
Speaker 1: kid from school or dropping them off if it's a

581
00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:58,920
Speaker 1: tricky drop off for your kid, or you know, walking

582
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:01,200
Speaker 1: into a meeting. Every time I walk into the meeting,

583
00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:03,240
Speaker 1: I see my neck, my back, I put my pen,

584
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:05,959
Speaker 1: put my phone in my pocket, take a breath.

585
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:10,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, because you can get into that really shallow breathing

586
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:12,240
Speaker 2: and you don't even realize you're doing it, and you

587
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:14,639
Speaker 2: can just go, okay, let's just actually breathe all the

588
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:16,119
Speaker 2: way in and all the way out, and even just

589
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:17,959
Speaker 2: if you've got time for one, you're going to be

590
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:21,479
Speaker 2: better placed. And then you know that opening line when

591
00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:25,720
Speaker 2: you greet your creuse or you greet the family. I team,

592
00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:27,640
Speaker 2: we're here, and then we lead into it.

593
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:32,040
Speaker 1: We're just chatting with Sally Gould, the author of the

594
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:34,639
Speaker 1: brand new book Frog. If you like this show, please

595
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:37,440
Speaker 1: consider sharing it, following it, subscribing it, whatever you do,

596
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:39,800
Speaker 1: and also please consider listen to these ads. We'll be

597
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 1: back in a moment. You say that your job can

598
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 1: be gross, it can be traumatic, dull, hilarious and magical.

599
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:57,560
Speaker 1: That's a lot of things in one shift.

600
00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 2: That's the beauty of the job. Good. It's so good.

601
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 1: Because what we're what we're talking about here, has been

602
00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:09,040
Speaker 1: the intense moments. But I can only imagine it's like

603
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:11,080
Speaker 1: surfing should not be called surfing, it should be called

604
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 1: paddling a lot, getting smashed in the face and waiting

605
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:18,360
Speaker 1: around for ages. Yes, so you can maybe get eight

606
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 1: seconds on a wave if you're on a good break

607
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:23,400
Speaker 1: that day. So we've talked about the very exciting, intense bits,

608
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:26,720
Speaker 1: the other parts of them, that's the really talk to

609
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:28,760
Speaker 1: me about those parts of the job that I guess

610
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:30,600
Speaker 1: you can't really study for them either, But the dull

611
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:32,000
Speaker 1: bits particularly.

612
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's the people that call when they could have

613
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:38,800
Speaker 2: gone somewhere else for their healthcare. Potentially we can find

614
00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:41,600
Speaker 2: those frustrating because in our mind, I guess we know

615
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:43,880
Speaker 2: that there could be other places where our skills are

616
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:47,520
Speaker 2: needed more, and that's the frustrating part. But I think

617
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:50,240
Speaker 2: even in those cohorts of people, there's always a reason

618
00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:53,040
Speaker 2: and they've got a need, and it's not up to

619
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 2: me to sort of dictate whether I've deemed that appropriate

620
00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:58,160
Speaker 2: or not, because I think there's a need, whether that's

621
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:01,120
Speaker 2: they've got poor access to other healthcare, they've got poor

622
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:03,479
Speaker 2: health literacy. So I like to try and frame it

623
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 2: that way and that reduces the frustration on that side

624
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 2: of it. We also get, yeah, the sort of run

625
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:12,800
Speaker 2: of the mill job where it's not life or death,

626
00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 2: but they do need a trip to hospital, and obviously

627
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:19,400
Speaker 2: that's not as exciting, but just as rewarding because you

628
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:21,680
Speaker 2: get to sort of meet people in their home, get

629
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:24,840
Speaker 2: a sense of what they're struggling with, what social support

630
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:27,520
Speaker 2: they might need as well as medical support, and do

631
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:30,720
Speaker 2: some interventions. It might be a canular for some anti

632
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:33,160
Speaker 2: nausea medication that just makes them feel a lot better,

633
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:35,440
Speaker 2: or some pain relief, and there's a lot of that

634
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:39,000
Speaker 2: sort of in between. I guess where people do need help,

635
00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 2: but we're not doing CPR and defribilating people the.

636
00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:48,120
Speaker 1: Gross part of it. I was pretty prepared from what

637
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:51,880
Speaker 1: my dinner table conversation at our place would often. I

638
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:54,440
Speaker 1: was never ever squeamish ever, because it would would talk

639
00:30:54,480 --> 00:31:00,000
Speaker 1: about pass and phlegm and snot and bile and abscesces

640
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:02,800
Speaker 1: stink and having to open the window and like just

641
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 1: that was while we ate. Yes, oh my god, my

642
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 1: Mum's I'll never forget. You should have seen how much

643
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 1: puss came out of when I Land said I had

644
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 1: to get a second kidney truck past the store.

645
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:16,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I forget that. People don't like chat

646
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:18,080
Speaker 2: like that, but they're not okay with it.

647
00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:22,280
Speaker 1: Yeah. But even having said that, though you're right that

648
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:25,360
Speaker 1: you know this job was gross. Sometimes, how do you

649
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:28,680
Speaker 1: deal with We've talked about, you know, that physical reaction,

650
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:33,760
Speaker 1: trying to delay the physical anxiety reaction or you know,

651
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:36,160
Speaker 1: in fear reaction or something like that. How do you

652
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:38,760
Speaker 1: get on top of the reaction wanting to wanting to

653
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:41,320
Speaker 1: puke when your body's like, we're just going to do this.

654
00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:45,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I'd just like to frame it as

655
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:47,920
Speaker 2: like I've got a challenge and I need to overcome it.

656
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:51,840
Speaker 2: And whether that's wading through someone's bower contents on the

657
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:54,480
Speaker 2: bathroom floor, then I just think, okay, well, how can

658
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:57,240
Speaker 2: I minimize the damage to my uniform and do the

659
00:31:57,320 --> 00:31:58,200
Speaker 2: job that I need to do.

660
00:31:58,560 --> 00:31:59,680
Speaker 1: This is where you are why you.

661
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:04,040
Speaker 2: Don't need on carpet because the first time you kneel

662
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:08,000
Speaker 2: and the like body temperature warmth seeps through to your

663
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:11,239
Speaker 2: skin underneath, and you just think that's just come out

664
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:14,720
Speaker 2: of someone else's body because it's thirty seven degrees and

665
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:17,440
Speaker 2: it's on my skin. And then you never kneel again.

666
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:19,760
Speaker 1: You only kneel on the carpet once.

667
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 2: That's it. I've got a like deep squad. I've got

668
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:24,800
Speaker 2: these all these sitting positions where I'm not actually touching

669
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:26,680
Speaker 2: the floor. Very important could.

670
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 1: You go out of Bunnies and get one of those

671
00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:28,920
Speaker 1: garden kneelers that you know.

672
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:31,000
Speaker 2: Be very handy. Maybe I should add that to the kit.

673
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:33,560
Speaker 1: Keeping them about the lug. They're pretty white.

674
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:37,200
Speaker 2: I could wear just knee pads under the uniform every day.

675
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:39,920
Speaker 1: On top of the uniform. Otherwise you like the laundering kneepads,

676
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:42,960
Speaker 1: no problem. You can get a couple of disposable ones

677
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:43,480
Speaker 1: like gloves.

678
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:44,480
Speaker 2: You might be onto something.

679
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:48,160
Speaker 1: Look, get get Cannon Brooks on the phone. We're going

680
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 1: to get some disposable PVC. Whack them over that like

681
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:55,400
Speaker 1: kind of knee protector. Things could be handy. Yeah, I'll

682
00:32:55,480 --> 00:33:00,560
Speaker 1: up there with the paramedic steel toe crocs. What kind

683
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:04,200
Speaker 1: of the summer the sum aware some aware paramedics.

684
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 2: It's like someone said, oh, I want to we should

685
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:09,280
Speaker 2: get shorts for when it's hot, and I thought, I

686
00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:12,040
Speaker 2: do not think that is a good idea. Like I

687
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:14,600
Speaker 2: can wash that uniform and it protects me somewhat. If

688
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:16,560
Speaker 2: I had shorts and my legs were just out there

689
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:18,480
Speaker 2: for all sorts of splash not okay.

690
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:20,800
Speaker 1: Also, when you look you're dealing with sharps and stuff,

691
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:23,120
Speaker 1: you want to have as much between you and the

692
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:24,120
Speaker 1: outside world.

693
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:26,840
Speaker 2: Exactly, very happy wearing the full pants.

694
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:30,120
Speaker 1: The obviously, Like you know, we've talked about the whole

695
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:34,120
Speaker 1: the humor that you find with the people you work with.

696
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:37,840
Speaker 1: Do the patients ever crack you up?

697
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:41,600
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, there are some patients that can see the

698
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:43,640
Speaker 2: funny side in what's happened, and there's such a breath

699
00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:46,240
Speaker 2: of fresh air from that average person that's just stressed

700
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:51,240
Speaker 2: out and worried and understandably, but you know, especially the oldies,

701
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:53,640
Speaker 2: they've always oh, I'm a silly duffer, I shouldn't have

702
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:56,120
Speaker 2: done that, I'm sorry to bother you, all those types

703
00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 2: of things. I love that chat with them because they're

704
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:02,600
Speaker 2: they're actually very deserving of our help, and I'm more

705
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:04,520
Speaker 2: than happy to go and help people up off the

706
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 2: floor any day of the week. And you know, they've

707
00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:11,040
Speaker 2: got this wealth of knowledge. But they can also see,

708
00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:13,680
Speaker 2: you know, I'm oh, sorry to bother you, they're courteous.

709
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:17,239
Speaker 2: I just think they're just so delightful, and yeah, they're

710
00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:18,520
Speaker 2: always got a good sense of humor.

711
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:20,840
Speaker 1: Did you did you notice the difference in outcomes of

712
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:25,080
Speaker 1: patients who were able to see a light a side

713
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:26,080
Speaker 1: of the situation.

714
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:28,680
Speaker 2: There Unfortunately don't get to see like the full outcome

715
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:30,760
Speaker 2: of patients a lot of the time, but I think

716
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:33,840
Speaker 2: the whole pre hospital journey is so much easier with

717
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:36,879
Speaker 2: a sense of humor, which we often try and bring

718
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:39,320
Speaker 2: to patients. You know, we can see people are stressed,

719
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:42,880
Speaker 2: but that's that's our work. Actually, if you can arrive,

720
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:45,440
Speaker 2: they're stressed, they're upset, and by the end of it,

721
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 2: when I drop them off, they might be having a laugh.

722
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:49,959
Speaker 2: And that is so rewarding because maybe I've been able

723
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:51,640
Speaker 2: to take away their pain, get them in a more

724
00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:55,360
Speaker 2: comfortable position, explain what's going on, give them some treatment,

725
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:58,400
Speaker 2: some reassurance, and then when they are, you know, laughing

726
00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:00,319
Speaker 2: and joking, by the time you get to hospital, you

727
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:02,680
Speaker 2: think I've done my job. And that's not all the

728
00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:05,160
Speaker 2: medical stuff I did. That's the reassurance side of it,

729
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:09,120
Speaker 2: just giving them some information, just allaying their fears. That's

730
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 2: the rewarding.

731
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:13,200
Speaker 1: The hospital we're taking you to has a really good

732
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:15,759
Speaker 1: coffee shop downstairs, Like you're grateful we're not taking you

733
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:17,759
Speaker 1: over there. Over there, it's like you've got to walk

734
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:20,279
Speaker 1: to the mac is this one? There's a Barisa downstairs,

735
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:23,200
Speaker 1: So I'm happy for you. Like at least like just

736
00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:26,400
Speaker 1: something that you can give them. I guess that takes

737
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:28,880
Speaker 1: all of you out of the emergency of the moment

738
00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:31,399
Speaker 1: and separates them who they are from the thing that's

739
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:31,960
Speaker 1: happening to them.

740
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:34,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's often like we have these the little jokes

741
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 2: that come out all the time, you know, halfway carrying

742
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:39,719
Speaker 2: someone downstairs and it might feel a bit unsecure for them,

743
00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:41,600
Speaker 2: and you just say, oh, you know, don't worry. I

744
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:43,480
Speaker 2: wouldn't drop you. It to way too much paperwork for me.

745
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:46,560
Speaker 2: And they sort of have a oh, you know, you're joking,

746
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:48,279
Speaker 2: and they think okay, and then they loosen up a

747
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:50,319
Speaker 2: bit and you say, you know, just keep your hands

748
00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:52,000
Speaker 2: in and you'll be safely down the bottom. And it

749
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:55,360
Speaker 2: just brings the lightness to these moments that can be awful.

750
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:57,680
Speaker 2: But I don't know, I think we're very good at

751
00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:00,479
Speaker 2: bringing the humor in an appropriate way to those jobs

752
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:01,319
Speaker 2: to lighten the mood.

753
00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:02,880
Speaker 1: What about the magical bits.

754
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:07,959
Speaker 2: The magical side is connecting with someone and being able

755
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:09,880
Speaker 2: to get that laugh out. But that we do have

756
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:12,719
Speaker 2: the berths is the obvious one, I guess, because every

757
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:15,759
Speaker 2: other scenario is something bad has happened to someone, but

758
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:19,719
Speaker 2: a birth is actually usually a very happy occasion, and

759
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:23,759
Speaker 2: so that can feel very magical to be transporting one

760
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:25,440
Speaker 2: patient and arrive at hospital with two.

761
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:31,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I'm I'm going to assume that you had

762
00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:37,799
Speaker 1: never seen a childburst before you were in the back

763
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:41,000
Speaker 1: of a van. What misconceptions did you have about childbursts before?

764
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:41,279
Speaker 1: For one?

765
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 2: And it was magical. I think the back of an

766
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:49,440
Speaker 2: ambulance is not ideal for a delivery. We try and

767
00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:51,560
Speaker 2: make the call of whether we're going to stay at

768
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:54,560
Speaker 2: the scene and establish there and deliver the baby, or

769
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:56,920
Speaker 2: if we've got time to make it to the hospital

770
00:36:57,000 --> 00:36:57,760
Speaker 2: to deliver there.

771
00:36:57,680 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 1: Because it's a hands versus one set of hands.

772
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:03,239
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, expertise of maternity stuff in hospital versus us

773
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:06,440
Speaker 2: on your bedroom floor. I know which I'd prefer, but

774
00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:09,800
Speaker 2: that's a personal choice. But the in between, the inside

775
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:13,120
Speaker 2: the ambulance, where you've got limited space to move is

776
00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 2: it's just not ideal. So we try and make the call,

777
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:18,840
Speaker 2: but it doesn't always work out for us. And I

778
00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:21,520
Speaker 2: was lucky enough that the first one I saw was

779
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:23,960
Speaker 2: I was a ride along and so I didn't have

780
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:26,840
Speaker 2: the responsibility and I could just sort of be claiming

781
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:31,200
Speaker 2: I'm just watching. I'm just observing. But the paramedic I

782
00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:34,680
Speaker 2: was writing with had never delivered a baby, but managed

783
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:37,560
Speaker 2: to act like he'd done it a thousand times for

784
00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:40,399
Speaker 2: that mother, so oh yeah great. But I could see

785
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:42,760
Speaker 2: the looks he was giving me, which were like, ah,

786
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:44,799
Speaker 2: how are we not at the hospital yet? We missed

787
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:45,359
Speaker 2: timed this.

788
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:47,839
Speaker 1: So is it like on a job site when the

789
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:51,120
Speaker 1: youngest person in seniority is well, you know you can

790
00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:52,880
Speaker 1: clean up like you did, They just pass you the

791
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:55,279
Speaker 1: gurney and say, oh, if you go, because childbirth is

792
00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:56,480
Speaker 1: way mess yet I We'll.

793
00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:59,200
Speaker 2: Never forget the way the liquid on the floor, just

794
00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:02,759
Speaker 2: like with every turn of the ambulance, would accumulate on

795
00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:04,800
Speaker 2: one side, and then if we break too hard to

796
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:07,400
Speaker 2: work down a hill, it would go towards our personal bags,

797
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:09,719
Speaker 2: which were mine because I was the extra person, so

798
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:12,200
Speaker 2: mine would just in there and like, oh am, I

799
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:15,600
Speaker 2: should I lift those fluid heading Yeah, yeah, I don't

800
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:17,040
Speaker 2: have enough towels.

801
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:19,080
Speaker 1: Of it surely would have slowed a little bit.

802
00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:22,480
Speaker 2: I will never forget the bottom of that ambulance. I

803
00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:25,640
Speaker 2: was like, what do we do We just defect the

804
00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:28,200
Speaker 2: whole car or are we no? No, no, we grab

805
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:29,839
Speaker 2: the mop and clean this out. And that's our job.

806
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:32,400
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, sure, great a challenge to overcome.

807
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:37,800
Speaker 1: It is that is that is lovely and it is important.

808
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:41,160
Speaker 1: And I'm sure that when they did happen, it's a

809
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:47,399
Speaker 1: lovely reminder. Because you're the guys. Everything you touch croakes, right,

810
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:50,759
Speaker 1: it's a it must be a lovely reminder that. Oh

811
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:52,360
Speaker 1: I hang on, there's another side to this.

812
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:56,960
Speaker 2: M yeah, it's I think it's also just as rewarding

813
00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:01,720
Speaker 2: to see the elderly pass away peacefully in their homes.

814
00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:04,280
Speaker 2: And I think, yes, people probably think that's a terrible

815
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:08,000
Speaker 2: side of my job, but to see someone who has

816
00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:11,719
Speaker 2: lived a very full life pass away peacefully in a

817
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:14,480
Speaker 2: home environment, I just look at that and I think

818
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:16,439
Speaker 2: I'd like to go like that.

819
00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:18,600
Speaker 1: That's what the majority of people in a country won.

820
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:20,640
Speaker 2: And when you've got family there who were there for

821
00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:23,279
Speaker 2: the moment and they don't fight it, they just accept it,

822
00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:25,920
Speaker 2: and you can share memories with them. You know, you're

823
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:27,920
Speaker 2: these strangers, but they've invited you in and all of

824
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:31,040
Speaker 2: a sudden they trust you so quickly, and that's such

825
00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:33,920
Speaker 2: an honor. And if I can have those few moments

826
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:36,480
Speaker 2: with that family and chat about who their loved one

827
00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:38,759
Speaker 2: was and what they meant to them, and you know

828
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:42,640
Speaker 2: the legacy they leave behind, and yeah, that's such a

829
00:39:42,719 --> 00:39:44,080
Speaker 2: special moment in my day.

830
00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:48,000
Speaker 1: So how do you then, Because I remember we were

831
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:50,359
Speaker 1: all in the room when my mom passed away. We

832
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:52,960
Speaker 1: were very, very lucky to all be there. My brother

833
00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:57,480
Speaker 1: was able to fly in working overseas, and we just

834
00:39:57,560 --> 00:40:00,120
Speaker 1: kind of they just sat around with her for a

835
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:03,120
Speaker 1: couple of hours and then it was kind of like

836
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:06,600
Speaker 1: four in the morning whatever, was like, okay, and we're

837
00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:09,920
Speaker 1: just done. You've got to get the van somewhere, and

838
00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:12,279
Speaker 1: I'm assuming that you're probably going to have to transport.

839
00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:15,600
Speaker 2: We don't often transport our bodies, no, so these days

840
00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:18,120
Speaker 2: they're quite well set up that we can put things

841
00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:21,359
Speaker 2: in place to verify the death and then it can

842
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:23,960
Speaker 2: go straight to the funeral home and the contractors, which

843
00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:27,719
Speaker 2: is great because it takes out this horrible mid part

844
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:30,840
Speaker 2: where you know you might have to get police involved

845
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:34,120
Speaker 2: originally because you know they've got a job to make

846
00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:36,360
Speaker 2: everything work. But we've kind of now set up that

847
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:39,080
Speaker 2: we can just you know, this elderly person, it was

848
00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:41,479
Speaker 2: expected they were going to pass. It's not a suspicious death.

849
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:44,160
Speaker 2: We can contact the funeral home that they may have

850
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:47,160
Speaker 2: chosen already, and then the contractors come and it is

851
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:50,040
Speaker 2: a much nicer process for people, so the family can

852
00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:53,600
Speaker 2: have the time at home without the disruption of the

853
00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:56,040
Speaker 2: loved one being carted off somewhere to go to the

854
00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:58,040
Speaker 2: morgue and then bounce back to the funeral home all

855
00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:00,560
Speaker 2: these things. It's just, Yeah, I think we've got a

856
00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:02,520
Speaker 2: really long way to go in the space of the

857
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:05,760
Speaker 2: way we nurture the elderly into that phase of life.

858
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:08,560
Speaker 2: But I think we're hopefully moving in.

859
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:11,719
Speaker 1: The right diress and families as well and giving that

860
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:17,640
Speaker 1: because that time is so valuable, so valuable because while

861
00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:19,959
Speaker 1: Mom had passed, my brothers and I we're all still

862
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:23,400
Speaker 1: here and none of us want to have it. We

863
00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:26,319
Speaker 1: want to have kind of this collective moment together that

864
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:29,120
Speaker 1: we can then relate to. All right, And the longer

865
00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:32,319
Speaker 1: you allow that moment to happen that it actually does

866
00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:35,000
Speaker 1: wonders for the relationship of all of us afterwards.

867
00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:38,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, Well, it's the start of a grief journey

868
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:41,360
Speaker 2: that has started in the right way. I would say.

869
00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:44,000
Speaker 1: I asked about childbirth and how magically is and that

870
00:41:44,239 --> 00:41:46,839
Speaker 1: you you know you went straight to seeing what it's

871
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:49,759
Speaker 1: like to see somebody die with dignity, you know, in

872
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:53,640
Speaker 1: their home, as being just as magical. How did the

873
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:56,560
Speaker 1: way you feel about death change from doing this job.

874
00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:00,880
Speaker 2: I think I already had that pragmatic persponse diff from Dad,

875
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:06,239
Speaker 2: but I've got such a privilege on being in such

876
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:11,040
Speaker 2: intimate moments and it's taught me so much. I think

877
00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:13,680
Speaker 2: about obviously, the way I hope in which I die.

878
00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:16,319
Speaker 2: I've got, you know, hopes and dreams for that end

879
00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:21,239
Speaker 2: of things. But I think you can see it go

880
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:24,480
Speaker 2: so well when people accept that when you age, it's

881
00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:27,640
Speaker 2: inevitable that you will pass away, and when we focus

882
00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:32,040
Speaker 2: instead on the dignity and the comfort. I think there's

883
00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:35,640
Speaker 2: so much space for that. And sometimes, you know, I

884
00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:38,120
Speaker 2: might be working on someone and the family will change

885
00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:39,839
Speaker 2: their mind and say no, I think we'll just let

886
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:41,920
Speaker 2: them go, And there's so much I can do in

887
00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:43,880
Speaker 2: that space. Pop them back in the bed, put the

888
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:47,400
Speaker 2: blanket on, let people hold their hand, give them a kiss, and,

889
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:50,880
Speaker 2: as you say, start that grief journey in the right way.

890
00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:56,160
Speaker 2: I think that's one of the most rewarding parts that

891
00:42:56,239 --> 00:42:58,800
Speaker 2: I see as extraordinary.

892
00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:01,760
Speaker 1: You talk about it that like to be a family

893
00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:04,960
Speaker 1: in that moment and you're there, they all kind of

894
00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:09,240
Speaker 1: shout and go, you know what, Yeah, probably it's okay,

895
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:14,200
Speaker 1: And what a gift to have that acceptance as a

896
00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:14,839
Speaker 1: family unit.

897
00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:17,319
Speaker 2: I think the jobs that feel awful are the ones

898
00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:19,880
Speaker 2: where I look at this elderly person and think, I

899
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:22,000
Speaker 2: just don't think they would have wanted this, But for

900
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:25,560
Speaker 2: some reason, the family have said do everything, because maybe

901
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:28,720
Speaker 2: they don't have an understanding of what resuscitation actually looks

902
00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:31,399
Speaker 2: like or what the result is going to be. They

903
00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:34,960
Speaker 2: have this incorrect assumption that CPR's magical, you know, a

904
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:36,799
Speaker 2: couple of pumps on the chest and their loved one

905
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:38,919
Speaker 2: will sit back up and they'll reverse all of their

906
00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:41,680
Speaker 2: you know, health problems and they'll be wonderful for ten

907
00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:45,760
Speaker 2: more years. Unfortunately, the reality is nothing like that. Barely

908
00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:49,640
Speaker 2: anyone survives, especially in that elderly cohort. You know, they've

909
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:52,720
Speaker 2: died because their heart's been beating for one hundred years

910
00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:57,480
Speaker 2: and they've got seven other medical conditions. But there's this

911
00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:01,000
Speaker 2: terrible assumption that I can magic fix that and that

912
00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:05,120
Speaker 2: everything will be okay. And then I feel so torn

913
00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:08,919
Speaker 2: between obviously following the wishes, and you know the law

914
00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:12,400
Speaker 2: in terms of having to resuscitate someone, but just wishing

915
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:15,560
Speaker 2: I could tuck them back in bed and stroke their

916
00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:18,040
Speaker 2: hand and you know, let them go peacefully.

917
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:21,680
Speaker 1: That sounds like it's up there as far as being

918
00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:23,000
Speaker 1: confrontational for you. It is.

919
00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:26,360
Speaker 2: It is. I feel so torn about that sometimes because

920
00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:29,840
Speaker 2: I'm guided to do one thing. But if it was

921
00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:33,880
Speaker 2: my loved one or me, I think, would this person,

922
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:37,160
Speaker 2: if they could speak for themselves, would they really want

923
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:39,319
Speaker 2: this and did they have a quality of life that

924
00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:42,760
Speaker 2: they would happily accept or if they could express their wishes,

925
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:46,279
Speaker 2: would they be saying let me go? And that's why

926
00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:49,000
Speaker 2: I'm such a big advocate for things like advanced care directives,

927
00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:52,359
Speaker 2: because you can document that you want certain things done

928
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:54,480
Speaker 2: and not and that's your personal choice, and you can

929
00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:57,920
Speaker 2: specify however much or little as you want, and it's

930
00:44:57,920 --> 00:45:01,680
Speaker 2: simple documentation. That means that when you are in that horrible,

931
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:04,279
Speaker 2: stressful situation with a loved one, you don't have to

932
00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:07,680
Speaker 2: make those decisions. It's documented and everyone's already aware. I

933
00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:10,120
Speaker 2: think we all like to pretend that we're never going

934
00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:11,759
Speaker 2: to die, we're never going to get sick, we're never

935
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:14,160
Speaker 2: going to have to make these decisions. But we all are.

936
00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:16,920
Speaker 2: And that's what I've seen in the job, Like we

937
00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:20,040
Speaker 2: can't predict it. We're all human, And why are we

938
00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:23,279
Speaker 2: not talking about it openly and preparing ourselves in a

939
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:27,200
Speaker 2: way where we have healthy conversations around death and dying

940
00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:31,320
Speaker 2: and illness and resuscitation wishes. And maybe I sound very morbid,

941
00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:34,080
Speaker 2: but I just think it's really important. It's just part

942
00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:37,440
Speaker 2: of life. And I just think as a society sometimes

943
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:41,160
Speaker 2: we like to pretend it's not a part of life.

944
00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:44,040
Speaker 1: Well, denial of death is you know, there's a lot

945
00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:47,120
Speaker 1: of money to be made to be honest. You know. Yeah, people,

946
00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:49,080
Speaker 1: you know you don't want to think about death? Here,

947
00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:52,839
Speaker 1: buy these shoes. Yeah, yeah, you know this is some

948
00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:56,920
Speaker 1: psychologists would say that's pretty much behind everything. Is how

949
00:45:56,960 --> 00:45:59,640
Speaker 1: do I get rid of the uncomfortable feeling that me

950
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:04,200
Speaker 1: and everyone I love will die? It is uncomfortable, yeah,

951
00:46:04,239 --> 00:46:05,759
Speaker 1: And if you sit with it for long enough, it

952
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:06,520
Speaker 1: becomes okay.

953
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:09,560
Speaker 2: And maybe when you're exposed to it in your job

954
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:11,880
Speaker 2: and you see the variety of ways it can be

955
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:14,920
Speaker 2: dealt with, you quickly establish what you think, in your

956
00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:17,759
Speaker 2: personal opinion, is the best way to deal with.

957
00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:20,640
Speaker 1: It being in the job that you're in. As in

958
00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:22,640
Speaker 1: the States they call them first responders. It's a name

959
00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:25,520
Speaker 1: that makes sense, I guess. But you know fire ambulance,

960
00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:29,319
Speaker 1: you know the police. Number one? Your job. Your job

961
00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:31,520
Speaker 1: is like you two jobs, really Number one help people.

962
00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:33,839
Speaker 1: Number two don't get PTSD so you can keep doing

963
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:36,880
Speaker 1: number one right. And for a long time it was

964
00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:40,560
Speaker 1: just number one. What did you have to learn? What

965
00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:43,440
Speaker 1: processes you have to realize? Like up there was restocking

966
00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:45,400
Speaker 1: the van and keeping your knees off the floor. What

967
00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:48,759
Speaker 1: did you learn have to learn about keeping yourself and

968
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:50,120
Speaker 1: your own headspace safe?

969
00:46:50,719 --> 00:46:53,600
Speaker 2: I think I learned the hard way by not doing

970
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:56,640
Speaker 2: the things I should have been doing right. I joined

971
00:46:56,640 --> 00:46:59,840
Speaker 2: the job young, and as I said to you before,

972
00:46:59,880 --> 00:47:02,319
Speaker 2: I just fell in love with it, Like I was

973
00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:05,640
Speaker 2: so addicted to it. I just everything about it, the

974
00:47:06,280 --> 00:47:09,160
Speaker 2: changing scenery, the different variety of patients, the sense of

975
00:47:09,160 --> 00:47:11,440
Speaker 2: control and calm that I had. It was just so

976
00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:12,960
Speaker 2: addictive because.

977
00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:15,279
Speaker 1: You're hurtling towards a life and your situation where you're

978
00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:18,239
Speaker 1: the difference between everything, well more could you want? And

979
00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:23,880
Speaker 1: you write you're high on chaos and controlled, like that's alluring.

980
00:47:24,120 --> 00:47:27,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And you wear this uniform that you feel

981
00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:30,800
Speaker 2: protects you, and once you're in it, you are trusted

982
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:32,319
Speaker 2: and you are welcomed in and you do have a

983
00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:34,239
Speaker 2: role and you have a sense of purpose, and it's

984
00:47:34,320 --> 00:47:37,840
Speaker 2: very easy to get addicted to that. And then you

985
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:40,600
Speaker 2: come home and I'm still the introverted person that hates

986
00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:42,840
Speaker 2: making phone calls and would rather order on a QR

987
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:45,040
Speaker 2: code than have to speak to someone. And that's me

988
00:47:45,160 --> 00:47:49,200
Speaker 2: at home. But I was so in love with this

989
00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:51,840
Speaker 2: sense of myself at work, where I became this person

990
00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:56,120
Speaker 2: that was so in control, I guess, but I was

991
00:47:56,239 --> 00:48:01,399
Speaker 2: so in the job that I just neglected looking after

992
00:48:01,440 --> 00:48:04,200
Speaker 2: myself because I thought, you know, this job is my

993
00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:07,439
Speaker 2: life now, and I wasn't doing all the things that

994
00:48:07,719 --> 00:48:12,640
Speaker 2: we know we need to do, like sleeping, properly, eating, properly, exercising,

995
00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:16,680
Speaker 2: having social connection, and also just tuning out from work.

996
00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:19,120
Speaker 2: I was on days off just thinking about how I

997
00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:22,040
Speaker 2: could get back sooner, because I'd see every ambulance and

998
00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:24,800
Speaker 2: want to be in it learning because I was still learning,

999
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:26,480
Speaker 2: but I knew I was getting good at it, and

1000
00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:27,640
Speaker 2: that felt so did you.

1001
00:48:27,560 --> 00:48:28,920
Speaker 1: Want to be learning or did you just want to

1002
00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:30,440
Speaker 1: mainline dopamine for a while.

1003
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:36,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly, I just yeah, and that you can

1004
00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:38,239
Speaker 2: only sustain that for so long.

1005
00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:42,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. You wrote about trying to keep your

1006
00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:46,359
Speaker 1: bucket as empty as possible when it comes to keeping

1007
00:48:46,360 --> 00:48:49,160
Speaker 1: yourself safe. I think, can you explain what that's about. Yeah.

1008
00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:51,719
Speaker 2: I learned this early on from my first preceptor, in

1009
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:55,040
Speaker 2: that he stopped me from seeing a graphics scene. Again,

1010
00:48:55,120 --> 00:48:57,719
Speaker 2: I'd already seen parts of it, but he stopped me

1011
00:48:57,760 --> 00:48:59,520
Speaker 2: from having a very obvious sort of look at this

1012
00:48:59,640 --> 00:49:03,720
Speaker 2: very great deceased patient. And I was sort of like, oh, well,

1013
00:49:04,040 --> 00:49:06,920
Speaker 2: why I want to see as much as possible, and

1014
00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:08,759
Speaker 2: he sort of said, oh, you didn't need to see

1015
00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:10,800
Speaker 2: any more of that. You keep your bucket as empty

1016
00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:14,160
Speaker 2: as possible. And that's another thing I was doing wrong,

1017
00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:16,719
Speaker 2: was just warning to see everything. Like if I can

1018
00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:22,160
Speaker 2: fast track seeing everything, I'll become more resilient faster, right, no, wrong,

1019
00:49:22,760 --> 00:49:26,279
Speaker 2: if I can. And I pass this on to junior colleagues. Now,

1020
00:49:26,320 --> 00:49:29,440
Speaker 2: if you can limit what you see, that will give

1021
00:49:29,440 --> 00:49:31,400
Speaker 2: you longevity because you don't need to see it to

1022
00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:33,520
Speaker 2: tick it off a list to say I've seen this ailment,

1023
00:49:33,560 --> 00:49:35,480
Speaker 2: I've seen that. If only one of you needs to

1024
00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:39,200
Speaker 2: go into see a horrible death and confirm they're deceased.

1025
00:49:39,320 --> 00:49:41,239
Speaker 2: Then only one person needs to be exposed to that.

1026
00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:43,600
Speaker 2: And that's that concept of once a bit of trauma

1027
00:49:43,640 --> 00:49:46,719
Speaker 2: goes into that bucket, you can't really just empty it out.

1028
00:49:46,760 --> 00:49:48,920
Speaker 2: It's not that simple. And every drop that goes in

1029
00:49:49,600 --> 00:49:53,280
Speaker 2: accumulates over time until that bucket's overflowing and too heavy

1030
00:49:53,320 --> 00:49:55,480
Speaker 2: to carry and you it's too late.

1031
00:49:55,560 --> 00:50:00,680
Speaker 1: Then So how do you I mean, you might not

1032
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:03,080
Speaker 1: be able to empty it out, but you can you

1033
00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:05,080
Speaker 1: can learn to be with it. You know, our memories

1034
00:50:05,120 --> 00:50:08,960
Speaker 1: are what they are. We cannot forget things, particularly things

1035
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:12,080
Speaker 1: that are so embedded with so many other hooks, like

1036
00:50:12,120 --> 00:50:14,040
Speaker 1: this is my job. This is the same uniform every

1037
00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:16,320
Speaker 1: time I put this on, or touch my skin stethoscope,

1038
00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:18,200
Speaker 1: or sing my song. This is the song I sang

1039
00:50:18,280 --> 00:50:21,680
Speaker 1: right before I saw that thing. So how do you

1040
00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:24,920
Speaker 1: manage like when you know, I can only imagine one.

1041
00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:27,560
Speaker 1: It's like you've got two young kids. You know, they

1042
00:50:27,640 --> 00:50:30,200
Speaker 1: do something or bang, You're back in a moment which

1043
00:50:30,239 --> 00:50:31,799
Speaker 1: didn't end well for the other kid that you were

1044
00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:35,040
Speaker 1: working with that day. How do you come back to

1045
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:37,200
Speaker 1: this moment? How do you keep yourself here?

1046
00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:41,719
Speaker 2: I think I'm very deliberate now about how I take

1047
00:50:41,719 --> 00:50:45,640
Speaker 2: care of myself. There's a lot of deliberate action to

1048
00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:50,120
Speaker 2: nurture myself because the person inside the uniform is a

1049
00:50:50,200 --> 00:50:53,759
Speaker 2: human and can get damaged. And I am very very

1050
00:50:53,800 --> 00:50:56,400
Speaker 2: conscious of trying to get out of that headspace of

1051
00:50:56,440 --> 00:50:58,759
Speaker 2: work before I come home to the kids, because I

1052
00:50:58,800 --> 00:51:01,279
Speaker 2: don't want to pass on that to them. And when

1053
00:51:01,320 --> 00:51:04,000
Speaker 2: I am in that, you know, life or death thing,

1054
00:51:04,040 --> 00:51:05,680
Speaker 2: and then I go home and I'm getting stressed about

1055
00:51:05,680 --> 00:51:08,040
Speaker 2: why they haven't eaten their dinner. You know, it's not

1056
00:51:08,080 --> 00:51:10,920
Speaker 2: the same stakes, but my mind does jump to it

1057
00:51:11,000 --> 00:51:14,800
Speaker 2: being so right. And that takes a lot of work.

1058
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:18,320
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm not I work on this every day. Yeah,

1059
00:51:18,480 --> 00:51:21,000
Speaker 2: it's not something that you can just sort of set

1060
00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:21,600
Speaker 2: and forget.

1061
00:51:22,320 --> 00:51:24,239
Speaker 1: So what kind of things do you do as a

1062
00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:27,759
Speaker 1: part of your Like you you launed your uniform to

1063
00:51:27,840 --> 00:51:30,279
Speaker 1: get the stains out of the knee, you you know,

1064
00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:31,600
Speaker 1: what are some things that you do as a part

1065
00:51:31,680 --> 00:51:34,719
Speaker 1: of your job to make sure that you are able

1066
00:51:34,760 --> 00:51:35,600
Speaker 1: to shot up the next day.

1067
00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:38,360
Speaker 2: The debriefing with your partner at work is a massive

1068
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:41,080
Speaker 2: part and that's part of why we're storytellers. Is to

1069
00:51:41,400 --> 00:51:44,439
Speaker 2: offload what we've seen and share it with the only

1070
00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:47,120
Speaker 2: person in the whole world that was beside you when

1071
00:51:47,200 --> 00:51:50,719
Speaker 2: you saw that thing, because you can explain to your

1072
00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:54,399
Speaker 2: partner and your family a million times over, but you

1073
00:51:54,520 --> 00:51:58,080
Speaker 2: cannot communicate what it felt like in that room when

1074
00:51:58,080 --> 00:52:00,839
Speaker 2: that traumatic scene happened, what it smelled like, All these

1075
00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:04,080
Speaker 2: things that stick with you, and it helps knowing that

1076
00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:07,959
Speaker 2: the colleague you were partnered with was in the same room,

1077
00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:11,160
Speaker 2: experienced the same thing, and has no judgment whether that

1078
00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:14,879
Speaker 2: job sits well or not with you. And I think

1079
00:52:14,920 --> 00:52:18,239
Speaker 2: we can often think it's just the big jobs that

1080
00:52:18,400 --> 00:52:22,520
Speaker 2: stay with you. It's not. I think there's some jobs

1081
00:52:22,560 --> 00:52:27,680
Speaker 2: that sit horribly with me for other reasons, and thankfully

1082
00:52:27,680 --> 00:52:29,840
Speaker 2: they're few and far between. But I know when I

1083
00:52:29,920 --> 00:52:33,640
Speaker 2: have these jobs that aren't aren't right, I need to

1084
00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:37,720
Speaker 2: consciously do these steps, and that's debriefing with your partner.

1085
00:52:37,960 --> 00:52:41,080
Speaker 2: It might be flagging to my husband. I don't need

1086
00:52:41,120 --> 00:52:42,839
Speaker 2: to tell him the details. He won't get it, and

1087
00:52:43,360 --> 00:52:45,520
Speaker 2: it's more frustrating for me to try and explain it.

1088
00:52:46,160 --> 00:52:49,080
Speaker 2: But just saying to him I had a bad job

1089
00:52:49,120 --> 00:52:51,720
Speaker 2: at work today, so he knows what headspace I'm coming

1090
00:52:51,760 --> 00:52:54,359
Speaker 2: home in, and that maybe I need ten minutes in

1091
00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:56,719
Speaker 2: the bedroom before I come to the kids so that

1092
00:52:56,800 --> 00:52:59,360
Speaker 2: I can leave that behind. And there's a lot of

1093
00:52:59,360 --> 00:53:03,000
Speaker 2: things I do. I'm still in contact with old colleagues

1094
00:53:03,080 --> 00:53:05,200
Speaker 2: and mentors of mine, and it might be giving them

1095
00:53:05,200 --> 00:53:08,680
Speaker 2: a call and just going through the job again. And

1096
00:53:08,760 --> 00:53:12,239
Speaker 2: sometimes for me it's about did I do enough? Did

1097
00:53:12,280 --> 00:53:14,440
Speaker 2: I do my job, and not so much the outcome

1098
00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:16,799
Speaker 2: of what happened to the patient, because we get very

1099
00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:18,840
Speaker 2: used to the fact that very sick people die a

1100
00:53:18,840 --> 00:53:21,919
Speaker 2: lot of the time, but we have this rumination over

1101
00:53:22,480 --> 00:53:25,279
Speaker 2: could I have done more, did I lead the scene well,

1102
00:53:25,400 --> 00:53:28,240
Speaker 2: did I make the right treatment decisions? And just making

1103
00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:32,400
Speaker 2: sure that I'm not ruminating on that in a negative way,

1104
00:53:32,760 --> 00:53:35,600
Speaker 2: but I'm thinking about how I can frame it in

1105
00:53:35,640 --> 00:53:37,960
Speaker 2: a way that the next patient I go to benefits

1106
00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:40,000
Speaker 2: from the learning from the last one, and trying to

1107
00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:42,719
Speaker 2: flip that. I also do journaling, which I did back

1108
00:53:42,760 --> 00:53:46,760
Speaker 2: in the start of those particular jobs, is just writing

1109
00:53:46,840 --> 00:53:50,680
Speaker 2: it all down to sift through why is it so uncomfortable?

1110
00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:53,319
Speaker 2: Why is this job? Because most jobs wash off after

1111
00:53:53,360 --> 00:53:55,239
Speaker 2: the day, I don't remember them. Yes, I've captured a

1112
00:53:55,239 --> 00:53:56,640
Speaker 2: lot in the book, but that's because I wrote them

1113
00:53:56,680 --> 00:53:59,359
Speaker 2: down at the time. There's thousands of jobs that aren't

1114
00:53:59,400 --> 00:54:01,960
Speaker 2: in there that wash off so easily when I take

1115
00:54:01,960 --> 00:54:04,000
Speaker 2: off that uniform have a shower. I'm not going to

1116
00:54:04,040 --> 00:54:07,000
Speaker 2: think about those people again. But there are those jobs

1117
00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:10,600
Speaker 2: that if you're you know, a week later thinking about it,

1118
00:54:10,640 --> 00:54:13,360
Speaker 2: I think, Okay, I've done my usual things. I've debrief

1119
00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:15,759
Speaker 2: with my partner, I've flagged it with my husband, I've

1120
00:54:15,800 --> 00:54:17,960
Speaker 2: spoken to a friend. I've done that. I need to

1121
00:54:18,040 --> 00:54:21,960
Speaker 2: now engage in some more self care because it's lingering.

1122
00:54:22,400 --> 00:54:25,560
Speaker 2: That might be seeing someone like a psychologist, bringing it

1123
00:54:25,680 --> 00:54:27,960
Speaker 2: up with my own psychologist. It might be talking to

1124
00:54:28,040 --> 00:54:32,440
Speaker 2: another a colleague going through it again and nutting out

1125
00:54:32,239 --> 00:54:34,719
Speaker 2: what isn't sitting well with me.

1126
00:54:35,320 --> 00:54:38,080
Speaker 1: That's really really clever way of putting it. Like I've

1127
00:54:38,080 --> 00:54:40,080
Speaker 1: done all the things I normally do, and I can

1128
00:54:40,120 --> 00:54:42,200
Speaker 1: relate it's something very similar happened to me recently, Like

1129
00:54:42,960 --> 00:54:44,960
Speaker 1: or I used all the tools I already have and

1130
00:54:45,000 --> 00:54:47,319
Speaker 1: this is still hanging around. I'm a bet outgunned here.

1131
00:54:47,960 --> 00:54:49,719
Speaker 1: I need I might need to bring in some heavy

1132
00:54:49,800 --> 00:54:52,600
Speaker 1: artillery that I don't have. Yeah, and just noticing that

1133
00:54:52,640 --> 00:54:54,719
Speaker 1: it's gone along what it normally does. Yep, I know

1134
00:54:55,320 --> 00:54:56,040
Speaker 1: I should take care.

1135
00:54:55,960 --> 00:54:57,960
Speaker 2: Of this now, because old me just would have been like, oh,

1136
00:54:58,040 --> 00:55:00,120
Speaker 2: let's ignore it, let's push it down and pretend and

1137
00:55:00,120 --> 00:55:02,080
Speaker 2: it's not there, and push on and do more work

1138
00:55:02,120 --> 00:55:06,560
Speaker 2: and get busier. But I've learnt so much to go Okay, actually,

1139
00:55:06,640 --> 00:55:09,080
Speaker 2: let's give it more space, because that's probably going to

1140
00:55:09,120 --> 00:55:11,080
Speaker 2: be better in the long run.

1141
00:55:10,400 --> 00:55:14,520
Speaker 1: My wife's uncle, they live in Melbourne. And when I

1142
00:55:14,520 --> 00:55:16,839
Speaker 1: did the comedy festival once, so I stayed down there

1143
00:55:16,880 --> 00:55:20,279
Speaker 1: in the window of the room faced the garage where

1144
00:55:20,280 --> 00:55:23,200
Speaker 1: the ambulances were pull into the hospital next door. And

1145
00:55:24,880 --> 00:55:27,640
Speaker 1: I'll come in late at night from the show, and

1146
00:55:27,680 --> 00:55:30,240
Speaker 1: I would see these guys and girls, I see everybody,

1147
00:55:30,280 --> 00:55:33,200
Speaker 1: you know. They go in with a very different gait

1148
00:55:33,960 --> 00:55:36,800
Speaker 1: to the gate they come out with right. And then

1149
00:55:37,120 --> 00:55:40,399
Speaker 1: there seemed to be this beautiful moment of sanctuary, whether

1150
00:55:40,400 --> 00:55:43,440
Speaker 1: it be ten minutes or half an hour, as they

1151
00:55:43,480 --> 00:55:45,760
Speaker 1: were mopping up the fluorid and they were restocking things,

1152
00:55:45,760 --> 00:55:49,279
Speaker 1: they having this reset moment. I mean, not everyone's going

1153
00:55:49,320 --> 00:55:51,560
Speaker 1: to do your job, but what can you share about

1154
00:55:51,560 --> 00:55:54,680
Speaker 1: the power of putting a little reset in before you

1155
00:55:54,719 --> 00:55:56,680
Speaker 1: go back out there for whatever it is you're doing.

1156
00:55:56,880 --> 00:55:59,960
Speaker 2: It's essential. And some jobs, yes, will be quick hand over,

1157
00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:01,600
Speaker 2: So do the paperwork and you're right to go again

1158
00:56:01,640 --> 00:56:03,640
Speaker 2: because it's not sitting with you. You've already forgotten it.

1159
00:56:03,640 --> 00:56:06,319
Speaker 2: You've already forgotten what that patient's complaint was. You know,

1160
00:56:06,360 --> 00:56:07,960
Speaker 2: you'll get to the end of the day and you

1161
00:56:08,000 --> 00:56:10,799
Speaker 2: wouldn't be able to recount, you know, what happened. But

1162
00:56:10,880 --> 00:56:15,280
Speaker 2: after some of those particularly challenging jobs, the methodical nature

1163
00:56:15,320 --> 00:56:17,000
Speaker 2: of opening up the kit that you used on the

1164
00:56:17,080 --> 00:56:19,839
Speaker 2: job and restocking everything that you use is a way

1165
00:56:19,840 --> 00:56:23,240
Speaker 2: of processing exactly what you did for that patient, because

1166
00:56:23,320 --> 00:56:25,759
Speaker 2: each piece of equipment has to go back into where

1167
00:56:25,760 --> 00:56:28,160
Speaker 2: you took it out of. And I think we overlook

1168
00:56:28,200 --> 00:56:31,920
Speaker 2: how effective that simple process is in getting our head

1169
00:56:31,960 --> 00:56:34,200
Speaker 2: around what just happened. But at the same time, if

1170
00:56:34,800 --> 00:56:39,319
Speaker 2: normally it's the driving paramedics duty to restock, but if

1171
00:56:39,360 --> 00:56:41,400
Speaker 2: you've done a big job, it's both hands or be

1172
00:56:41,480 --> 00:56:43,600
Speaker 2: on deck to get it restocked. But if you've also

1173
00:56:43,640 --> 00:56:45,480
Speaker 2: done a job with another crew, there might be four

1174
00:56:45,520 --> 00:56:48,560
Speaker 2: of you there working together to restock, and we think, yeah,

1175
00:56:48,560 --> 00:56:51,680
Speaker 2: that's just restocking. No, it's that resetting you're talking about,

1176
00:56:51,719 --> 00:56:55,200
Speaker 2: because as we're doing that, we're talking about, Oh, what

1177
00:56:55,800 --> 00:56:57,640
Speaker 2: happened when you guys first arrived. Was he out the

1178
00:56:57,640 --> 00:56:59,120
Speaker 2: back or had you dragged him in? And say, oh, yeah,

1179
00:56:59,120 --> 00:57:01,040
Speaker 2: we dragged him in and put him in that spot. Hey,

1180
00:57:01,040 --> 00:57:02,319
Speaker 2: that was a great spot to put him in because

1181
00:57:02,360 --> 00:57:04,680
Speaker 2: we had really good access. Then that was good thinking. Yeah,

1182
00:57:04,719 --> 00:57:06,279
Speaker 2: and then I was trying to get that canula, but

1183
00:57:06,320 --> 00:57:08,480
Speaker 2: he had really difficult veins, and yeah, I had to

1184
00:57:08,520 --> 00:57:09,759
Speaker 2: look at his other arm and it looked a bit

1185
00:57:09,760 --> 00:57:11,120
Speaker 2: better than the one you were working on. That's why

1186
00:57:11,120 --> 00:57:12,719
Speaker 2: I got the line in that side. Yeah, Yeah, and

1187
00:57:12,719 --> 00:57:14,239
Speaker 2: then how about when you did that on how about

1188
00:57:14,239 --> 00:57:15,920
Speaker 2: when you tripped over that thing? That was really funny.

1189
00:57:15,920 --> 00:57:19,880
Speaker 2: And it's that we're just talking shit about what happened,

1190
00:57:20,320 --> 00:57:23,280
Speaker 2: but it's a very important step of that clinical sort

1191
00:57:23,280 --> 00:57:26,000
Speaker 2: of debrief and just having a chat with mates.

1192
00:57:26,040 --> 00:57:28,280
Speaker 1: From what I yeah, and from what I know about

1193
00:57:28,280 --> 00:57:33,160
Speaker 1: the trauma therapy that I've been through, giving your brain

1194
00:57:33,240 --> 00:57:36,080
Speaker 1: the idea because one of the theories is that we

1195
00:57:36,280 --> 00:57:39,240
Speaker 1: experienced lingering trauma whence brain gets the feeling that something

1196
00:57:39,280 --> 00:57:42,120
Speaker 1: hasn't finished, we have we've left something undone. There's like

1197
00:57:42,160 --> 00:57:44,720
Speaker 1: an open tab somewhere that we need to close. It's

1198
00:57:44,720 --> 00:57:47,520
Speaker 1: the one making noise. Can't find it. It's a video

1199
00:57:47,520 --> 00:57:51,040
Speaker 1: that I don't want to hear. And exactly, you just

1200
00:57:51,120 --> 00:57:53,400
Speaker 1: kind of closing all thest tabs, you're closing all list tabs.

1201
00:57:53,400 --> 00:57:55,400
Speaker 1: You're answering all the questions. You're letting your brain go, No,

1202
00:57:55,400 --> 00:57:56,880
Speaker 1: that's cool, we did this, did that, this did that,

1203
00:57:57,960 --> 00:58:01,320
Speaker 1: and so what might be paramedic work. But just knowing

1204
00:58:01,360 --> 00:58:03,520
Speaker 1: that this is a way that other people won't be

1205
00:58:03,520 --> 00:58:05,520
Speaker 1: able to put into their lives and using their lives, like,

1206
00:58:06,040 --> 00:58:07,560
Speaker 1: we'll see what if we're going to answer any questions

1207
00:58:07,560 --> 00:58:10,400
Speaker 1: about whatever it just went down, that'll help me kind

1208
00:58:10,440 --> 00:58:15,200
Speaker 1: of figure this out. You teach now, so you've seen heaps,

1209
00:58:15,360 --> 00:58:19,280
Speaker 1: you've done heaps. Now you're teaching when you're trying to

1210
00:58:19,320 --> 00:58:22,640
Speaker 1: speak to those students. Now, I'm guessing you're trying to

1211
00:58:22,680 --> 00:58:24,720
Speaker 1: be the teacher you wish you had. But what are

1212
00:58:24,760 --> 00:58:26,200
Speaker 1: the things that you try to tell them. What's the

1213
00:58:26,280 --> 00:58:30,960
Speaker 1: kind of ways you the kind of overarching kind of

1214
00:58:31,000 --> 00:58:33,040
Speaker 1: ethos that you approach them with about this gig and

1215
00:58:33,040 --> 00:58:33,800
Speaker 1: why they're doing it.

1216
00:58:34,480 --> 00:58:39,280
Speaker 2: I think I always come in super excited because I

1217
00:58:39,320 --> 00:58:41,200
Speaker 2: think they love to see that. I've been doing it

1218
00:58:41,240 --> 00:58:43,360
Speaker 2: for fourteen years and I still love it. And that's

1219
00:58:43,360 --> 00:58:46,120
Speaker 2: super important because you know, you can get your burnt

1220
00:58:46,120 --> 00:58:48,960
Speaker 2: out ambos that can come in and they've got gripes

1221
00:58:49,000 --> 00:58:52,160
Speaker 2: about everything. But I think it's refreshing to them to

1222
00:58:52,200 --> 00:58:54,200
Speaker 2: see me come in and say this is a great

1223
00:58:54,280 --> 00:58:57,320
Speaker 2: job and here's how you do it. I love giving

1224
00:58:57,360 --> 00:58:59,680
Speaker 2: them the holistic approach to it, like, yes, we're learning

1225
00:58:59,760 --> 00:59:02,040
Speaker 2: this and equal skill, but meanwhile you'll have to be

1226
00:59:02,080 --> 00:59:04,920
Speaker 2: dealing with these other factors because once they get plunked

1227
00:59:04,960 --> 00:59:06,880
Speaker 2: in that ambulance, they're going to have all those things

1228
00:59:06,920 --> 00:59:08,320
Speaker 2: to think about. But if they can get a head

1229
00:59:08,320 --> 00:59:10,880
Speaker 2: start starting to think about all the range of skills

1230
00:59:10,880 --> 00:59:13,480
Speaker 2: they'll have to have, they can start using those in

1231
00:59:13,520 --> 00:59:16,640
Speaker 2: the in the classroom, I guess, and encouraging them to

1232
00:59:17,160 --> 00:59:18,560
Speaker 2: look after themselves as well.

1233
00:59:19,080 --> 00:59:25,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, what could you share about because in this time,

1234
00:59:25,280 --> 00:59:26,720
Speaker 1: you know, we all talk about what it was like

1235
00:59:26,760 --> 00:59:28,200
Speaker 1: when we were kids in such and such and such,

1236
00:59:28,240 --> 00:59:30,200
Speaker 1: but we do get the feeling that we're getting much

1237
00:59:30,200 --> 00:59:32,360
Speaker 1: more isolated and possibly much more afraid of each other

1238
00:59:32,520 --> 00:59:36,120
Speaker 1: in our community. Would what could you say about the

1239
00:59:36,200 --> 00:59:39,440
Speaker 1: value of helping other people particularly helping strangers.

1240
00:59:40,640 --> 00:59:42,160
Speaker 2: I think that's the beauty of my job is I

1241
00:59:42,200 --> 00:59:46,560
Speaker 2: get to turn up to anyone and give them unconditional

1242
00:59:46,600 --> 00:59:50,480
Speaker 2: care in my role. And it doesn't matter how old

1243
00:59:50,520 --> 00:59:52,440
Speaker 2: they are, how young they are, where they come from,

1244
00:59:52,520 --> 00:59:54,560
Speaker 2: where they live, what predicament they're in, what they do

1245
00:59:54,640 --> 00:59:58,120
Speaker 2: for a job, what they believe, none of it matters

1246
00:59:58,280 --> 01:00:01,960
Speaker 2: because they're a human that's in need. And it's not

1247
01:00:02,080 --> 01:00:05,160
Speaker 2: the clinical skills that come to the fore on most

1248
01:00:05,200 --> 01:00:09,080
Speaker 2: of the jobs. It's the human side of reassurance, holding

1249
01:00:09,120 --> 01:00:14,120
Speaker 2: a hand, explaining something, and all humans want that, I

1250
01:00:14,160 --> 01:00:18,280
Speaker 2: think when they're feeling scared and hurt and in pain.

1251
01:00:18,960 --> 01:00:21,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, what does it do for you to help people?

1252
01:00:24,320 --> 01:00:27,520
Speaker 2: I get so much job satisfaction. I say to people

1253
01:00:27,560 --> 01:00:30,240
Speaker 2: that even if I wasn't getting paid, I'd still turn

1254
01:00:30,320 --> 01:00:33,800
Speaker 2: up to do that job because it feels like it

1255
01:00:33,840 --> 01:00:37,600
Speaker 2: is so rewarding and satisfying. It doesn't feel like work

1256
01:00:37,680 --> 01:00:40,360
Speaker 2: to me. It feels like exactly where I'm supposed to be.

1257
01:00:41,200 --> 01:00:44,240
Speaker 2: I know I'm good at it, and if I can

1258
01:00:44,280 --> 01:00:47,480
Speaker 2: make people's worst day a little bit better, I leave

1259
01:00:47,640 --> 01:00:51,360
Speaker 2: with a sense of satisfaction that I couldn't find anywhere else.

1260
01:00:53,400 --> 01:00:57,360
Speaker 1: And knowing bear in mind, you see the very edges

1261
01:00:57,400 --> 01:01:00,440
Speaker 1: of our community on the very worst days of their life.

1262
01:01:01,040 --> 01:01:02,600
Speaker 1: Being in this kind of gear, you can get cynical

1263
01:01:02,600 --> 01:01:06,240
Speaker 1: about the world as you're waving your heads off to school.

1264
01:01:06,400 --> 01:01:09,200
Speaker 1: You know, how are you even able to do that?

1265
01:01:09,800 --> 01:01:11,320
Speaker 1: Knowing the things you've seen?

1266
01:01:13,480 --> 01:01:17,200
Speaker 2: I probably try to view it that it's actually made

1267
01:01:17,280 --> 01:01:20,240
Speaker 2: me a better person. You can carry it around as

1268
01:01:20,480 --> 01:01:23,600
Speaker 2: trauma and as suffering that you've witnessed, but there's so

1269
01:01:23,720 --> 01:01:25,960
Speaker 2: much good in it as well, and that I can

1270
01:01:26,000 --> 01:01:28,040
Speaker 2: make a small difference in what I do. I carry

1271
01:01:28,080 --> 01:01:30,800
Speaker 2: that around with pride that I get to wear that

1272
01:01:30,920 --> 01:01:34,560
Speaker 2: uniform and I get welcomed into people's homes and they

1273
01:01:34,680 --> 01:01:38,920
Speaker 2: trust me, and that that's my job to help that.

1274
01:01:39,320 --> 01:01:42,360
Speaker 2: I think only good can come from that. I think

1275
01:01:42,400 --> 01:01:43,680
Speaker 2: the good outweighs the bad.

1276
01:01:44,320 --> 01:01:47,520
Speaker 1: Does it make you feel, you know, because particularly with

1277
01:01:47,720 --> 01:01:51,800
Speaker 1: parenting stuff, you know, it's like, you know, I can

1278
01:01:51,880 --> 01:01:53,920
Speaker 1: walk myself to school in like less than five minutes.

1279
01:01:53,960 --> 01:01:55,800
Speaker 1: I guess I can see it from my house, right,

1280
01:01:56,720 --> 01:01:58,240
Speaker 1: but still a part of me is like, oh, I'm

1281
01:01:58,240 --> 01:02:00,000
Speaker 1: not quite ready to learn across that read my as welf.

1282
01:02:01,240 --> 01:02:04,120
Speaker 1: You know, does it make you a little more apprehensive.

1283
01:02:06,160 --> 01:02:08,920
Speaker 2: I think my mind can often jump in two different

1284
01:02:08,960 --> 01:02:12,400
Speaker 2: directions when the kids are injured, because it just is

1285
01:02:12,440 --> 01:02:17,800
Speaker 2: that paramedic brain just splits into the I am accustomed

1286
01:02:17,840 --> 01:02:20,480
Speaker 2: to trauma side of You'll be right, it's not broken,

1287
01:02:20,680 --> 01:02:23,040
Speaker 2: start walking, very horrible.

1288
01:02:23,080 --> 01:02:25,520
Speaker 1: How did you start saying things that my mum used

1289
01:02:25,520 --> 01:02:31,360
Speaker 1: to say, yeah, as you're fine?

1290
01:02:31,480 --> 01:02:32,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.

1291
01:02:32,240 --> 01:02:34,040
Speaker 1: Bit a super glue maybe, but that's about.

1292
01:02:33,800 --> 01:02:37,200
Speaker 2: It, exactly. And I try not to be that compassionless

1293
01:02:37,240 --> 01:02:39,920
Speaker 2: sort of mother because they need a hug and they

1294
01:02:39,960 --> 01:02:42,480
Speaker 2: need to be allowed to have their tears and a

1295
01:02:42,560 --> 01:02:44,680
Speaker 2: normal childhood, and I desperately want to give them that.

1296
01:02:44,720 --> 01:02:47,480
Speaker 2: But I'm also very good at instantly triaging. Okay, not

1297
01:02:47,520 --> 01:02:50,080
Speaker 2: life threatening, up you go. But then I also have

1298
01:02:50,360 --> 01:02:52,480
Speaker 2: seen the worst. So you are trying to calm that

1299
01:02:52,520 --> 01:02:55,600
Speaker 2: paramedic mind on the other side, that's saying, did they

1300
01:02:55,640 --> 01:02:58,640
Speaker 2: knock their head? Were they conscious after they fell? Are

1301
01:02:58,680 --> 01:03:01,240
Speaker 2: they acting differently their hematoma on their head? Do I

1302
01:03:01,320 --> 01:03:03,760
Speaker 2: need to No? No, no, that's fine, And just it's

1303
01:03:03,800 --> 01:03:05,840
Speaker 2: a balance. It's a balance, and trying to be the

1304
01:03:05,920 --> 01:03:08,960
Speaker 2: best mum is a struggle I will work on for

1305
01:03:09,000 --> 01:03:11,280
Speaker 2: the rest of my life. I think if your.

1306
01:03:11,120 --> 01:03:12,919
Speaker 1: House is anything like my house was and will growing

1307
01:03:13,000 --> 01:03:14,640
Speaker 1: up because my mum works at a hospital for a

1308
01:03:14,720 --> 01:03:18,440
Speaker 1: long time. Like you go to your mate's house and

1309
01:03:18,600 --> 01:03:20,480
Speaker 1: you cut yourself, I need a band aid that it's

1310
01:03:20,480 --> 01:03:22,920
Speaker 1: over there, and it's like this. It's not even a

1311
01:03:22,960 --> 01:03:25,680
Speaker 1: shoe box. It's a corner of a draw with one

1312
01:03:25,760 --> 01:03:29,280
Speaker 1: box in it. Like, fucking what are you kidding? I

1313
01:03:29,320 --> 01:03:33,919
Speaker 1: have a cupboard in my home, like your medicine drawer

1314
01:03:34,000 --> 01:03:38,160
Speaker 1: must be like a restock scenario. What's one thing that

1315
01:03:38,200 --> 01:03:40,320
Speaker 1: you is in your house that you kind of wish

1316
01:03:40,520 --> 01:03:42,320
Speaker 1: I can't. If more people had these, we'll get into

1317
01:03:42,320 --> 01:03:43,120
Speaker 1: a lot less trouble.

1318
01:03:43,760 --> 01:03:47,040
Speaker 2: I think with kids, vomit bags are just so handy,

1319
01:03:47,240 --> 01:03:50,360
Speaker 2: right like being growing up, we're just given the bucket

1320
01:03:50,360 --> 01:03:52,640
Speaker 2: and that got rinsed out. But in this day and age,

1321
01:03:52,640 --> 01:03:55,240
Speaker 2: there's nothing like just popping out that disposable vomit bag,

1322
01:03:55,280 --> 01:03:58,200
Speaker 2: catching the vomit, twisting it, getting rid of it. Car trips.

1323
01:03:58,200 --> 01:04:01,040
Speaker 2: I've always got a vomit bag on me. Handy don't

1324
01:04:01,040 --> 01:04:03,560
Speaker 2: save lives, but they make a difference to the cleanliness

1325
01:04:03,560 --> 01:04:04,360
Speaker 2: of my house, and this.

1326
01:04:04,280 --> 01:04:06,680
Speaker 1: Is what matters. But yeah, your band aid draw is

1327
01:04:06,720 --> 01:04:07,520
Speaker 1: pretty good. Wouldn't it.

1328
01:04:07,680 --> 01:04:09,720
Speaker 2: I've got a few things in there. Yeah, it's like,

1329
01:04:09,760 --> 01:04:11,760
Speaker 2: if we go for a hike, I'm like pretty stocked

1330
01:04:11,840 --> 01:04:14,000
Speaker 2: up on things. I've got mates that are even worse

1331
01:04:14,040 --> 01:04:16,880
Speaker 2: than me that take every single thing under the sun

1332
01:04:17,040 --> 01:04:19,080
Speaker 2: just in case, and they're carrying a massive pack just

1333
01:04:19,120 --> 01:04:21,520
Speaker 2: for a short hike because I guess here we've seen

1334
01:04:21,560 --> 01:04:22,800
Speaker 2: it go bad and we don't want to be the

1335
01:04:22,840 --> 01:04:25,320
Speaker 2: person that needs to get helicoptered out of somewhere.

1336
01:04:25,520 --> 01:04:27,080
Speaker 1: You know, it's been such a delight to speak with

1337
01:04:27,080 --> 01:04:28,640
Speaker 1: you and thank you for writing this book, because it's

1338
01:04:28,720 --> 01:04:31,520
Speaker 1: I think it's really important that people kind of understand

1339
01:04:33,160 --> 01:04:34,920
Speaker 1: if you've ever spent any time in any other country.

1340
01:04:34,920 --> 01:04:37,720
Speaker 1: I live in America for ten years. Right. The healthcare

1341
01:04:37,760 --> 01:04:40,440
Speaker 1: system we have in our country, it's not perfect. No

1342
01:04:40,520 --> 01:04:42,840
Speaker 1: system that is run by any government is ever perfect

1343
01:04:42,840 --> 01:04:44,120
Speaker 1: anywhere in the world. I don't care who you are.

1344
01:04:44,760 --> 01:04:47,320
Speaker 1: It is a superpower that our country has, and it

1345
01:04:47,360 --> 01:04:49,680
Speaker 1: is unfucking believable. We have to do everything we can

1346
01:04:49,720 --> 01:04:51,360
Speaker 1: to protect it because I have seen what it's like

1347
01:04:51,680 --> 01:04:53,960
Speaker 1: when people don't call an ambulance because by doing so,

1348
01:04:54,000 --> 01:04:56,960
Speaker 1: it's going to cost them five grand and that'll default

1349
01:04:57,000 --> 01:04:58,640
Speaker 1: on their mortgage and then they have to move house,

1350
01:04:58,680 --> 01:05:01,680
Speaker 1: and then that starts to spiral, so they don't. We

1351
01:05:01,760 --> 01:05:05,400
Speaker 1: are so lucky, and this book is really important to

1352
01:05:05,400 --> 01:05:08,040
Speaker 1: help us appreciate the kind of people that willingly will

1353
01:05:08,080 --> 01:05:11,400
Speaker 1: march in to the situations that other people are trying

1354
01:05:11,400 --> 01:05:15,080
Speaker 1: to escape from. It's epic. Thanks for writing it, Thanks

1355
01:05:15,080 --> 01:05:15,200
Speaker 1: for the.

1356
01:05:15,240 --> 01:05:17,560
Speaker 2: Chat, thank you, thank you. It's being delightful.

1357
01:05:18,640 --> 01:05:21,440
Speaker 1: And that was Sally Gould. The book is called Frog,

1358
01:05:21,480 --> 01:05:24,080
Speaker 1: The Secret Diary of a Paramedic of Poperlink in the

1359
01:05:24,120 --> 01:05:26,400
Speaker 1: show notes you might need to have a bit of

1360
01:05:26,400 --> 01:05:28,440
Speaker 1: a breadth after listening to that. You may want to

1361
01:05:28,480 --> 01:05:30,120
Speaker 1: go for a walk and ever think about what we

1362
01:05:30,280 --> 01:05:33,400
Speaker 1: just talked about. That moment where she was describing the

1363
01:05:33,440 --> 01:05:37,000
Speaker 1: magic of the job and the first thing she went

1364
01:05:37,040 --> 01:05:40,480
Speaker 1: to was helping to give someone the opportunity to have

1365
01:05:40,520 --> 01:05:44,600
Speaker 1: some dignity in their final moments. That was just one

1366
01:05:44,680 --> 01:05:47,160
Speaker 1: of the more moving things I've ever heard on this show.

1367
01:05:47,520 --> 01:05:50,480
Speaker 1: It was extraordinary to listen to her describe that because

1368
01:05:50,480 --> 01:05:55,200
Speaker 1: she would have seen so much, really so much death

1369
01:05:55,240 --> 01:05:57,800
Speaker 1: that was not like that, and to be able to

1370
01:05:57,800 --> 01:06:00,160
Speaker 1: help someone have that and a family have that for

1371
01:06:00,200 --> 01:06:02,600
Speaker 1: someone they love, being so important to her and so

1372
01:06:02,680 --> 01:06:04,880
Speaker 1: magical to her. Like that really tells you something, doesn't it.

1373
01:06:05,440 --> 01:06:07,880
Speaker 1: It was a pretty good chat. The book is great.

1374
01:06:08,400 --> 01:06:10,040
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the show. If you liked it,

1375
01:06:10,080 --> 01:06:12,800
Speaker 1: please share it with somebody. Please subscribe, Please tell your mates.

1376
01:06:12,880 --> 01:06:14,400
Speaker 1: You can jump on the substack or put the link

1377
01:06:14,440 --> 01:06:15,840
Speaker 1: in the show notes. If you need me, just email.

1378
01:06:15,920 --> 01:06:18,880
Speaker 1: Send her to your email at gmail dot com. See

1379
01:06:18,880 --> 01:06:24,040
Speaker 1: you Monday.