WEBVTT - Move Beyond Resilience to Antifragility in Work and Life with Paul Watkins 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:03.520 If you had a goal for yourself, if you're a parent, 0:00:03.720 --> 0:00:05.360 if you want to be the best dead you can be, 0:00:05.640 --> 0:00:07.680 or you want to stay healthy, you want to run 0:00:07.720 --> 0:00:09.559 a half marathon, or do background with your kids, or 0:00:09.560 --> 0:00:13.640 whatever you is, why would you not support yourself? What 0:00:13.720 --> 0:00:15.079 would you sabatize. 0:00:14.600 --> 0:00:29.640 Yourself or what can you mad man welcome creating Vito. 0:00:29.720 --> 0:00:31.600 I have been referred to as the mad sideist. I'll 0:00:31.600 --> 0:00:33.280 take it as a bench of honor. I think that's okay. 0:00:33.320 --> 0:00:34.840 I'll tell you a big work. 0:00:35.479 --> 0:00:39.440 Yeah, you are a mad scientist, but not in the 0:00:39.479 --> 0:00:41.879 way that people think about. So you're a scientists, you're 0:00:41.880 --> 0:00:45.480 a pharmacist by trade, right, but you've also been done 0:00:45.640 --> 0:00:48.360 bit a building. You've been a property developer, an entrepreneur, 0:00:48.400 --> 0:00:50.640 you're a public speaker. I met you on the circuit. 0:00:50.920 --> 0:00:56.960 But you have this kind of hobby of doing mad shit. 0:00:57.080 --> 0:00:58.959 I think that's a technical phrase. Yeah, that's the best 0:00:59.000 --> 0:00:59.480 foot on here. 0:01:00.120 --> 0:01:04.119 It is so talk to. So you do trio running, 0:01:04.120 --> 0:01:07.560 claiming all sorts of stuff, and you've done expeditions on 0:01:07.800 --> 0:01:11.640 seven different continents, which is pretty faky cool. Talk us 0:01:11.640 --> 0:01:13.960 through the highlights of those. 0:01:13.720 --> 0:01:16.520 Where do you start look to give people some context 0:01:16.520 --> 0:01:17.760 I think to begin with is that I'm not an 0:01:17.800 --> 0:01:20.160 elite athlete. I like to get that clear out front, 0:01:20.200 --> 0:01:22.800 like the glasses are fairly thick, I'm below average height. 0:01:23.160 --> 0:01:26.160 I'm a nerd like fall through and through chess club, 0:01:26.240 --> 0:01:28.759 debate club, theater club, the whole lot in high school, 0:01:28.800 --> 0:01:32.600 like you name it. And I really got into running 0:01:32.680 --> 0:01:34.520 purely because it was the only sport I could do. 0:01:34.640 --> 0:01:36.680 I was in high school where you had to do 0:01:36.760 --> 0:01:39.560 competitive sport, train two nights a week, compete in the weekends. 0:01:40.000 --> 0:01:42.840 I'm too small for footy, too short for basketball, too 0:01:42.920 --> 0:01:45.520 on co for cricket, so you do cross country running 0:01:45.560 --> 0:01:48.160 and that got me into running. Flash forward, you know, 0:01:48.320 --> 0:01:50.720 into a career and you do the usual thing. You know, 0:01:50.800 --> 0:01:54.040 you're building businesses, doing all the things, and the health 0:01:54.080 --> 0:01:56.120 gets pushed to the side, push to the side, push 0:01:56.200 --> 0:01:58.080 to the side, until you get a wake up call 0:01:58.120 --> 0:01:59.800 one day we go, hey, guess what happens if you 0:02:00.160 --> 0:02:02.600 with the most money, you don't win. You're just did 0:02:02.680 --> 0:02:04.920 and that's it. So I decided that I really needed 0:02:04.920 --> 0:02:06.520 to do something about that because it was going to 0:02:06.520 --> 0:02:08.079 have an ending that wasn't really great. Like I was 0:02:08.160 --> 0:02:10.959 very successful, but what else well, my life had no 0:02:11.040 --> 0:02:13.440 other dimension or color to it. So I went and 0:02:13.440 --> 0:02:16.880 did a very basic trek in Nepaul, purely as a 0:02:16.919 --> 0:02:20.079 way for escapism from the corporate world. And I loved 0:02:20.080 --> 0:02:21.799 it and loved how it maybe feel. And I came 0:02:21.800 --> 0:02:24.840 back and went, well, what's next. And I went and 0:02:24.880 --> 0:02:27.919 did the Kakoda track. My grandfather fought and rebell and 0:02:27.960 --> 0:02:30.519 New Britain just north of there in World War Two, 0:02:30.560 --> 0:02:33.000 so it retraced his footsteps. I did the co Coda track. 0:02:33.639 --> 0:02:37.200 I loved it, went what's next, and just started to iterate, 0:02:37.280 --> 0:02:40.400 no plan, just well, the next hardest thing would be this, 0:02:40.600 --> 0:02:43.520 and the next hardest thing would be that, and a 0:02:43.560 --> 0:02:45.640 few years down the track, next thing. And I was 0:02:45.680 --> 0:02:49.720 catching a flight on this this Russian Eleutian military cargo 0:02:49.880 --> 0:02:53.600 jet out of the southern end of They are there, 0:02:53.639 --> 0:02:56.600 Oh my god. Yeah, and we're not talking. Oh'm mister Watkins. 0:02:56.639 --> 0:02:58.880 Twelve b you know, three rows down the left. It's like, 0:02:59.120 --> 0:03:01.920 get in, find a wooden bench seat on the right, 0:03:02.000 --> 0:03:04.359 you know, between all the cargo that's strapped in the middle, 0:03:04.800 --> 0:03:09.200 and hang on. And we flew six hours from Puntarenas 0:03:09.400 --> 0:03:13.680 in southern South America into Patriot Hills and Antarctica, and 0:03:13.680 --> 0:03:16.359 I've got my passports stamped at Patriot Hills and Antarctica. 0:03:16.800 --> 0:03:19.840 Caught a flight on a twin out to base camp. 0:03:20.520 --> 0:03:23.720 It was myself, three other people and a lead guide 0:03:23.960 --> 0:03:25.600 and we were there to climb the Vincent Massive, the 0:03:25.639 --> 0:03:29.680 highest peak on the Antarctic continent, unsupported. Just us and 0:03:29.720 --> 0:03:32.000 what you brought. Yeah, I was a complete move. I 0:03:32.000 --> 0:03:34.040 said to the guide, you know, what's the time zone here? 0:03:34.639 --> 0:03:37.119 And he's like, mate, the sun never goes down here, 0:03:37.280 --> 0:03:39.640 like there is no there is no there is no 0:03:39.720 --> 0:03:43.280 time zones. We climb for twelve hours, we sleep and 0:03:43.320 --> 0:03:44.720 we eat, and we get up and we do it 0:03:44.760 --> 0:03:47.320 again until the job's down. And this was way back 0:03:47.640 --> 0:03:50.480 when it was wasn't very commercial. There was no fixed ropes, 0:03:50.520 --> 0:03:52.320 there was no like. It was just we're going to 0:03:52.320 --> 0:03:54.440 tackle that headwall. Yeah nothing. It was just we're going 0:03:54.440 --> 0:03:56.119 to tackle that headwall until we get to the top 0:03:56.120 --> 0:03:58.000 of it. And it takes as long as it takes. 0:03:58.120 --> 0:04:00.720 And how much claim experience. 0:04:01.080 --> 0:04:04.560 I'd only done two our three reasonable climbs have done 0:04:04.640 --> 0:04:06.760 Mer Peak in Nepal, which is a mountain but the 0:04:06.800 --> 0:04:09.080 Nepalese referred to as like a small hill, like it's 0:04:09.120 --> 0:04:12.720 about six thousand meters but very basic, really touristy kind 0:04:12.760 --> 0:04:14.520 of thing. You can walk up and down it. That's fine. 0:04:14.680 --> 0:04:16.680 I don't kill him a jar in Africa, And I'd 0:04:16.720 --> 0:04:19.159 had a failed attemp on Akin Kagua in South America, 0:04:19.160 --> 0:04:21.160 which is seven thousand meters above sea level, which is 0:04:21.160 --> 0:04:23.560 a different kettle affairs. And I've done some training in 0:04:23.600 --> 0:04:26.240 New Zealand. I've been over to South Island, done some 0:04:26.320 --> 0:04:28.960 cravas rescue stuff and just tried to fill the talk 0:04:29.000 --> 0:04:31.839 kid with the skills. But like I was on that plane, 0:04:31.839 --> 0:04:33.800 that Russian military plane, and I'm looking around at the 0:04:33.800 --> 0:04:36.479 guy's next to me, like on their sweating bullets, and 0:04:36.520 --> 0:04:38.640 the guy next to me is asleep. And this guy 0:04:38.720 --> 0:04:41.480 summoned ever six times, and this guy's on his third 0:04:41.520 --> 0:04:43.960 trip to McMurdo, And I'm like, what am I doing? 0:04:44.200 --> 0:04:47.760 You're an idiot, You are so out of your death. 0:04:48.360 --> 0:04:50.360 But then we spend nearly the best part of the month, 0:04:50.400 --> 0:04:52.760 like we had about forty fifty kilos a year per 0:04:52.839 --> 0:04:55.039 man just and you're just hauling it just to be 0:04:55.200 --> 0:04:58.280 the backpacking it or hauling it in a sled, and 0:04:58.760 --> 0:05:01.760 we literally get to a point and we got out 0:05:01.760 --> 0:05:03.839 of base camp and the guy had got his GPS 0:05:03.839 --> 0:05:06.719 out and he walked us around. He said, dig a 0:05:06.720 --> 0:05:09.440 hole there. So you dig a hole, and here's all 0:05:09.440 --> 0:05:12.760 the supplies that he'd left there last year, food, everything, 0:05:12.800 --> 0:05:14.680 And I'm like, just leave it here, and he's like, 0:05:15.320 --> 0:05:18.720 who's going to nicke it? Mate, Like there's no one here, likes. 0:05:18.320 --> 0:05:20.560 No wildlife, and it's not good. 0:05:21.160 --> 0:05:23.760 It's not going to go off. I'm not going to 0:05:23.760 --> 0:05:26.120 bring home. We come back and he's pulling out like 0:05:26.160 --> 0:05:28.840 these yead lamb sunks and red wine that have been 0:05:29.200 --> 0:05:32.200 free cryovacked and froze it up, and he stashed them there, 0:05:32.200 --> 0:05:34.240 and he's got his tents and his cooking year and 0:05:34.240 --> 0:05:35.920 all that kind of stuff. He said, we just bear 0:05:35.960 --> 0:05:37.520 it in the ice. We'll come back next year. I'll 0:05:37.520 --> 0:05:39.360 get you goons to dig it up, and we're good 0:05:39.360 --> 0:05:42.720 to go. So yeh, God, fair enough. So you just 0:05:43.480 --> 0:05:47.160 you end up finding yourself in weird places, meeting really 0:05:47.240 --> 0:05:50.799 interesting characters, doing things that you never thought you would 0:05:50.800 --> 0:05:53.560 ever do. And I think for me, that's really been 0:05:53.600 --> 0:05:56.880 the line that's gone through all of them. Just it's 0:05:57.000 --> 0:06:00.000 not about telling other people what you did. It's about 0:06:00.080 --> 0:06:01.600 I went to do that because I wanted to have 0:06:01.680 --> 0:06:05.200 that experience in that place for me. And if no 0:06:05.200 --> 0:06:07.599 one ever knows, that's fine, and that really adds color 0:06:07.640 --> 0:06:08.880 to it, I think invadues to it. 0:06:09.040 --> 0:06:12.200 And so talk us through. What were the conditions alike? 0:06:12.520 --> 0:06:15.320 You were obviously there are at a good time of year, 0:06:15.520 --> 0:06:18.400 but good time of year and Antarctica can be a 0:06:18.400 --> 0:06:20.560 little different, right, Yeah, it was. 0:06:21.040 --> 0:06:23.520 It was minus forty pretty much twenty four to seven. 0:06:24.760 --> 0:06:27.320 Now we had we had three men to a tent. 0:06:27.560 --> 0:06:30.159 And when I'm no, no, I'm sorry, I've got some 0:06:30.240 --> 0:06:34.960 American listeners on this podcast. So minus forty categret. 0:06:34.560 --> 0:06:37.279 Minus forty seven grade, it's minus forty fahrenheit. It's the 0:06:37.279 --> 0:06:40.479 same that the graph crosses, yeah, which is very convenient. 0:06:40.480 --> 0:06:43.920 But about minus forty is the same in both, which 0:06:43.960 --> 0:06:47.200 is nice and handy. So it's about minus forty most days. Now, 0:06:47.279 --> 0:06:49.880 we had we had three men in a tent. Now 0:06:50.000 --> 0:06:53.000 in the tent, the amount of room is if PT 0:06:53.160 --> 0:06:55.279 needs to go for a leak and a toweling outside 0:06:55.279 --> 0:06:57.240 and you can't go, then the other two of us 0:06:57.240 --> 0:06:58.920 are just going to roll over and give him a 0:06:58.920 --> 0:07:00.440 little bit of room. To deal with it has to do, 0:07:00.520 --> 0:07:02.640 and then we'll all roll back and have a really 0:07:02.720 --> 0:07:06.240 uncomfortable conversation. But if we slept in that tent for 0:07:06.279 --> 0:07:08.760 eight hours, the warmest we got to the tent was 0:07:08.839 --> 0:07:11.280 minus eighteen. I think we got the inside of the 0:07:11.400 --> 0:07:14.800 tent to minus eighteen. And we operated in that for weeks. 0:07:15.440 --> 0:07:18.320 And you just part of me loves the discipline of 0:07:18.320 --> 0:07:20.560 doing that because you can never turn off. You have 0:07:20.640 --> 0:07:23.520 to be conscious of what you're doing all the time. 0:07:23.600 --> 0:07:26.680 You know, you drop a glove down a glacier, may 0:07:26.760 --> 0:07:29.040 you're you're in trouble, like you have you got the 0:07:29.120 --> 0:07:31.160 right gear? You can't just pop into the local arii 0:07:31.280 --> 0:07:34.320 and buy another glove. That's not happening. You've got to 0:07:34.360 --> 0:07:35.800 be Have you got the right gear on? Have you 0:07:35.920 --> 0:07:40.160 got the fluid being managed? You're overheating, undercooked? You always 0:07:40.160 --> 0:07:42.520 have to be paying attention every month. Are you going 0:07:42.560 --> 0:07:45.200 for a leak? Okay? Have you got your boots on properly? 0:07:45.440 --> 0:07:47.160 Do you know where you're going? If it's a white act? 0:07:47.200 --> 0:07:50.120 Do you know how to get back? Just everything minus 0:07:50.120 --> 0:07:54.480 simple things require total focus twenty four to seven. And 0:07:54.520 --> 0:07:57.800 I find that really fascinating, just as a scientific experiment 0:07:57.880 --> 0:07:59.960 to see can you have your mind in that space 0:08:00.200 --> 0:08:02.320 all the time. So you're twenty four hour sunlight, which 0:08:02.360 --> 0:08:05.160 sounds really great until like day four or five and 0:08:05.200 --> 0:08:08.720 your brain is like, what the hell is going on? 0:08:08.840 --> 0:08:11.760 Like this? It really started to throw your brain out 0:08:11.800 --> 0:08:13.960 after a while, Like it seemed really cool the first night, 0:08:14.440 --> 0:08:17.360 but after a few days it was just I can't sleep. 0:08:17.400 --> 0:08:19.040 You don't know what time of date it is. You know, 0:08:19.360 --> 0:08:22.600 you don't know what day it is. It became quite 0:08:22.760 --> 0:08:25.560 quite weird to have your system completely utterly thrown out 0:08:25.560 --> 0:08:25.800 like that. 0:08:26.040 --> 0:08:29.000 Yeah, And what most people don't realize is you're lots 0:08:29.040 --> 0:08:31.800 of yourselves were on off certainty and cycles, and you've 0:08:31.840 --> 0:08:34.480 been bill if you're getting up in the middle of 0:08:34.520 --> 0:08:37.920 the eight and it's bright, us, tell me this what 0:08:38.160 --> 0:08:42.240 for something like that? What's more challenging? Is it the 0:08:42.400 --> 0:08:46.439 physicality or the mental side of things? 0:08:46.760 --> 0:08:49.640 I always revert to the mental side of things. Physically, 0:08:49.679 --> 0:08:53.800 it's extremely difficult, as you would expect, and in all 0:08:53.840 --> 0:08:55.720 those expeditions, you know that there will be a point 0:08:55.720 --> 0:08:57.720 where your body says, you can get stuffed. We're not 0:08:57.760 --> 0:09:00.440 doing this, like we're just bur We're not doing it anymore. 0:09:00.679 --> 0:09:03.240 And then it really is about having the mindset and 0:09:03.280 --> 0:09:05.800 the framework upstairs to go, well, no, we still have 0:09:05.840 --> 0:09:08.920 to execute because we're still here. Particularly in an expedition 0:09:09.000 --> 0:09:11.120 like that, you can't leave, you can't go home, you 0:09:11.160 --> 0:09:11.640 can't quit. 0:09:11.760 --> 0:09:14.319 I was supposed to say, when you have no opdate, 0:09:15.040 --> 0:09:20.040 it's amazing what human beings are when they can't say. 0:09:20.000 --> 0:09:21.800 Yeah, absolutely, and like you can say you're done, but 0:09:21.800 --> 0:09:25.440 you're like, well, particularly for us, we're doing in both 0:09:25.440 --> 0:09:28.840 that expedition and in Denali in Alaska, you're roped up 0:09:28.840 --> 0:09:30.800 for glacier travel, so you're in rope teams of three 0:09:30.880 --> 0:09:34.560 or four people. There's no eye. There's just neither we 0:09:34.679 --> 0:09:37.080 can all do it or we all can't do it, 0:09:37.120 --> 0:09:40.199 but there's no Well Steve can do it, but Paul can't, 0:09:40.240 --> 0:09:42.160 so Paul will sit down and wait. No, no, no, no, no. 0:09:42.840 --> 0:09:45.400 We're together, everyone who is focused on everyone else. And 0:09:45.440 --> 0:09:47.880 I know you guys met each other in an airport hangar, 0:09:48.240 --> 0:09:51.880 you know, talketner in Alaska a week ago, but now 0:09:51.880 --> 0:09:53.800 you're tied together, and if one of you screws up, 0:09:53.840 --> 0:09:55.719 someone might die. So I really need you to pay 0:09:55.760 --> 0:09:58.000 attention and I really need you to trust each other 0:09:58.080 --> 0:10:01.680 because we're not this isn't again anymore. So I find 0:10:01.720 --> 0:10:03.480 it is a very delicate balance. You've got to bring 0:10:03.480 --> 0:10:06.400 the talk kit physically to be prepared, but you have 0:10:06.480 --> 0:10:09.000 to have your mental point, really your mental game really 0:10:09.040 --> 0:10:11.880 on point, and it has to stay on point all 0:10:11.960 --> 0:10:14.599 the time. And that doesn't mean you're David Goggins the 0:10:14.600 --> 0:10:16.520 whole time. There's a lot of gallows humor and there's 0:10:16.520 --> 0:10:18.280 a lot of there's a lot of dark laughter and 0:10:18.320 --> 0:10:20.320 all that kind of stuff because you have to balance 0:10:20.360 --> 0:10:22.559 it out so no one's getting up and going, you know, 0:10:23.160 --> 0:10:25.640 full Goggans all the time. It's really a balance of 0:10:26.040 --> 0:10:28.880 we've got to respect the environment. We've really all got 0:10:28.920 --> 0:10:31.320 to deliver. We're allowed to have a laugh along the 0:10:31.360 --> 0:10:33.240 way as long as we all know we're doing what 0:10:33.240 --> 0:10:33.920 we need to do. 0:10:34.600 --> 0:10:40.400 And that gallual humor is extremely important right in those 0:10:40.559 --> 0:10:44.680 dark situations and people if you go I remember doing 0:10:44.679 --> 0:10:48.160 helicopter starch and rescue and turn my first gig and 0:10:48.280 --> 0:10:52.000 putting dead bodies into the aircraft. That the gallus humor 0:10:52.160 --> 0:10:55.360 was a little bit shocking to me initially, but then 0:10:55.920 --> 0:10:58.839 you know, it's a copying strategy, right for that sort 0:10:58.840 --> 0:11:02.880 of stuff. And particularly when you're in shitty situations, the 0:11:02.960 --> 0:11:06.880 ability to just laugh at each other and laugh at 0:11:06.920 --> 0:11:09.920 the ridiculousness of your situation, and the fact that you 0:11:10.120 --> 0:11:13.320 choose to be there, right. It's the stuff that just 0:11:13.480 --> 0:11:14.079 keeps you. 0:11:14.440 --> 0:11:17.360 We're acking Kagar, which I mentioned in South America the 0:11:17.960 --> 0:11:19.640 second time I was there. We got to a camp 0:11:19.640 --> 0:11:22.199 and there's a camp three, which is the second highest 0:11:22.200 --> 0:11:25.120 camp is called helicopter camp. And when you get there, 0:11:25.160 --> 0:11:28.400 there's two parts of hell. There's two helicopters just strewn 0:11:28.440 --> 0:11:31.440 across the landscape and everyone ties the tents down to it. 0:11:31.520 --> 0:11:33.560 So what had happened a few years earlier, Polish team 0:11:33.600 --> 0:11:36.480 had got stuck called the ranges for help. The Rages 0:11:36.520 --> 0:11:39.400 sent a chopper up, the chopper crashed, everyone died. They 0:11:39.400 --> 0:11:42.720 sent a second chopper that crashed, and then the ranger said, stuff, 0:11:42.880 --> 0:11:45.400 you're on your own, you know, figure it out. We're 0:11:45.400 --> 0:11:47.880 not sending anyone else up there. So you're up there, 0:11:48.240 --> 0:11:50.319 and you know six thousand there's probably five and a 0:11:50.320 --> 0:11:52.560 half thousand meters by sea level. They camp tying your 0:11:52.600 --> 0:11:55.199 tent down to like road of blades and half an 0:11:55.200 --> 0:11:59.520 engine block and just you're doing that, going this is ridiculous. 0:11:59.520 --> 0:12:02.920 You go, but these are the environments you're in, and 0:12:02.960 --> 0:12:05.040 I love part of the fact that it is so 0:12:05.360 --> 0:12:09.400 removed from everyone else's sense of normal. But when you 0:12:09.440 --> 0:12:13.040 come home, you've been completely recalibrated. And maybe that doesn't 0:12:13.040 --> 0:12:15.080 mean you integrate to the society well when you get 0:12:15.080 --> 0:12:19.240 on quickly, but your perspective of what's normal and what's 0:12:19.280 --> 0:12:23.960 difficult and what constitutes hard has now been completely recalibrated. 0:12:24.000 --> 0:12:27.040 And I think that's what serves you extremely well for 0:12:27.120 --> 0:12:28.640 the rest of your life, whether you go do something 0:12:28.640 --> 0:12:29.400 like that again or not. 0:12:29.600 --> 0:12:31.480 Yeah, one hundred percent. The other thing I wanted to 0:12:31.520 --> 0:12:35.319 tap on that you mentioned was that level of trust. 0:12:35.720 --> 0:12:39.520 I remember having a conversation with Red Crawford, who's a 0:12:39.520 --> 0:12:42.880 good better mine. He's ex Lieutenant Colonel Sas and we 0:12:42.880 --> 0:12:46.640 were talking about a high performance teams model for pat 0:12:46.720 --> 0:12:48.960 Lend Chilney and right at the bottom of its trust 0:12:49.720 --> 0:12:51.600 and he had introduced me to it and he said, Peter, 0:12:51.679 --> 0:12:53.480 you're going to love this because he says, you'll see 0:12:53.520 --> 0:12:56.440 so much of what we had in the military as 0:12:56.520 --> 0:13:00.920 a nut model, that level of deep trust. Right. So 0:13:01.000 --> 0:13:04.080 in organizations, I often say, if we've worked together for 0:13:04.120 --> 0:13:07.800 a decade. We have what's called predictive trust in that 0:13:07.920 --> 0:13:09.480 I kind of know how you're going to behave in 0:13:09.480 --> 0:13:12.040 certain situations, and you know how I'm going to be heaving. 0:13:12.120 --> 0:13:16.680 That gives that level of trust, But this deeper trust 0:13:17.320 --> 0:13:20.800 is based on you know, healing back the layers of 0:13:20.800 --> 0:13:25.160 the onion and seeing into somebody else's soul, right, And 0:13:25.520 --> 0:13:27.680 I think probably the experience that I had was combat 0:13:27.720 --> 0:13:30.680 survival and Resistance to interrogation training and the guys that 0:13:30.760 --> 0:13:33.120 I was on that course with a particular guy, I 0:13:33.160 --> 0:13:37.360 was buddied up with, like just the depth of trust 0:13:37.480 --> 0:13:41.719 and the connection, the human connection that comes out of that, 0:13:42.360 --> 0:13:45.280 Like is that something that you found that those people 0:13:45.320 --> 0:13:47.840 that you've been on those expeditions that you could then 0:13:48.120 --> 0:13:51.600 see them twenty years later and it's just like yeah. 0:13:51.840 --> 0:13:53.640 Two wise. I mean, one is I can predict how 0:13:53.640 --> 0:13:55.880 you're going to behave, but I also get a feeling 0:13:55.880 --> 0:13:58.079 for when you're not behaving within those bands. So I 0:13:58.120 --> 0:14:00.280 got something's wrong with Pete. That's not a normal action 0:14:00.360 --> 0:14:03.360 for him, so that I can then intervene to go, hey, mate, 0:14:03.440 --> 0:14:05.520 you all right, like is everything okay? Do we need 0:14:05.559 --> 0:14:07.160 to or do we need to pull you out of 0:14:07.200 --> 0:14:10.280 this scenario, like you not only know how you'll react, 0:14:10.320 --> 0:14:12.320 I can identify when you're out of bounds, and I 0:14:12.360 --> 0:14:14.240 know that, hey, you might need to make to step 0:14:14.240 --> 0:14:15.880 in and give you a hand here and see how 0:14:15.960 --> 0:14:19.160 you going. And I've seen that on expeditions where we've 0:14:19.160 --> 0:14:22.640 had early in the expedition, the guide will absolutely flog 0:14:22.720 --> 0:14:25.040 us like and people are like, what is going on here? 0:14:25.080 --> 0:14:26.840 Like we're not we're not late for a meeting, like 0:14:27.440 --> 0:14:30.040 why we gave absolutely gun? And you realize it kind 0:14:30.040 --> 0:14:32.000 of I need to see what happens when you're exhausted 0:14:32.040 --> 0:14:33.960 and you're not happy about life. I need to know 0:14:34.000 --> 0:14:35.920 who's going to crack it, who's going to go, well, 0:14:35.920 --> 0:14:38.040 that was a rough day and be fine. We need 0:14:38.080 --> 0:14:39.960 to kind of sort a little week from the chaff, 0:14:40.040 --> 0:14:42.320 because we are only together for say a month on 0:14:42.360 --> 0:14:44.480 this hill, but the second half of that month is 0:14:44.520 --> 0:14:46.800 going to be deadly serious. So I need to sort 0:14:46.840 --> 0:14:49.400 out a few things before we go. So it's interesting 0:14:49.400 --> 0:14:51.520 to see how those people operate because they don't have 0:14:51.560 --> 0:14:54.040 ten years to figure us out. They've been handed a 0:14:54.040 --> 0:14:58.080 bunch of randoms and they need to assess them very quickly. 0:14:58.120 --> 0:15:01.640 From both the physical capabilit and a mental and psychological 0:15:01.640 --> 0:15:05.080 capability very quickly. So what do they do. They put 0:15:05.080 --> 0:15:07.520 you through a hard time quickly and see what you're like. 0:15:07.680 --> 0:15:11.040 We can quickly assess Okay, who's got the physical fortitude, 0:15:11.320 --> 0:15:12.920 but how are you going to react mentally? And then 0:15:12.960 --> 0:15:14.520 I could go, okay, well that team's going to be 0:15:14.560 --> 0:15:16.080 that team, and that team's going to be that team, 0:15:16.400 --> 0:15:18.040 and you and I are going to sit down and 0:15:18.040 --> 0:15:20.240 have a very hard chat about with your going any 0:15:20.280 --> 0:15:22.880 further on this hill at all. And it's interesting. I 0:15:22.960 --> 0:15:24.720 love that because you realize the guides are running a 0:15:24.760 --> 0:15:27.320 commercial operation, but they're not treating you like, oh, you're 0:15:27.360 --> 0:15:30.240 the customer, and the customer is always right. Love guides 0:15:31.160 --> 0:15:34.720 rip clients to shreds because they did one stupid thing, 0:15:34.760 --> 0:15:36.600 and they're like, well, you just endangered all of us, 0:15:36.600 --> 0:15:38.320 and I don't give a shit how much money you paid. 0:15:38.440 --> 0:15:40.520 I'm going to tell you when you won, because that 0:15:41.080 --> 0:15:43.640 was just not in line with what we must do 0:15:44.080 --> 0:15:46.160 to execute what we need to do here, and that 0:15:46.240 --> 0:15:47.920 was that was a great wake up call for me too, 0:15:48.000 --> 0:15:51.440 just to see how people at that level operate. You're right, 0:15:51.640 --> 0:15:52.840 it's a fascinating insight. 0:15:53.160 --> 0:15:58.600 I remember a conversation with doctor Stanley Beacham stand the 0:15:58.680 --> 0:16:02.720 man who I love, and we were talking about discomfort, 0:16:02.880 --> 0:16:06.520 and he said that he said, what most people don't 0:16:06.560 --> 0:16:10.200 realize is that in order to live your really best life, 0:16:10.840 --> 0:16:13.320 every now and then you need to walk right to 0:16:13.400 --> 0:16:17.920 the edge of yourself and stir into the abyss and 0:16:18.000 --> 0:16:20.480 work out what the abyss tells you and take it 0:16:20.520 --> 0:16:24.680 on board. I assume you've stirred into the abyss once 0:16:24.800 --> 0:16:28.240 or twice. Talk us through. Give me, give us an 0:16:28.240 --> 0:16:31.920 example where you were right at the edge of yourself 0:16:32.440 --> 0:16:36.160 and and sort of took something on board or learned something. 0:16:36.640 --> 0:16:38.400 I describe it as you have to go all the 0:16:38.400 --> 0:16:40.640 way to the very back of Ukrainium, all the way 0:16:40.640 --> 0:16:43.200 to the darkest little spot. And if you go all 0:16:43.240 --> 0:16:45.560 the way back there, there's a little room and there's 0:16:45.600 --> 0:16:47.720 something in it that you've kept locked away for a 0:16:47.760 --> 0:16:51.760 long time, and every now and then liveful demand that 0:16:51.800 --> 0:16:53.800 you have to open that room and let that guy 0:16:53.880 --> 0:16:55.840 out and let him do what he's got to do. 0:16:56.520 --> 0:16:58.640 And that I refer that as the lost Savage, like 0:16:58.720 --> 0:17:01.280 they're just the barberia and up the back in the 0:17:01.320 --> 0:17:03.520 cave that you've locked away, and every now and then 0:17:03.560 --> 0:17:06.000 you need to let that guy out. So I had 0:17:06.720 --> 0:17:10.480 I had an ultra marathon in the Canadian Arctic in 0:17:10.800 --> 0:17:13.040 twenty Yeah, of course it's it. 0:17:17.440 --> 0:17:20.240 Not just an ultra marathon, but an ultra martha. 0:17:20.280 --> 0:17:22.199 Didn't give it. You're any pt Do you want to 0:17:22.200 --> 0:17:26.960 give you the specs? Six hundred and fourteen kilometers single stage, 0:17:27.480 --> 0:17:29.240 single stage. I put you on the start line points 0:17:29.280 --> 0:17:32.080 at north and we start an eagle planes in the 0:17:32.160 --> 0:17:34.959 Yukon and then they send you north six hundred and 0:17:34.960 --> 0:17:39.200 fourteen kilometers to the little Inuit village of Tuck, which 0:17:39.240 --> 0:17:41.600 is on the very northern end of Canada. Like there's Tuck, 0:17:42.080 --> 0:17:44.480 there's the North poland then there's Norway and that's it. 0:17:44.920 --> 0:17:47.880 Now it's single stage, so you operate twenty four to seven. 0:17:47.920 --> 0:17:51.439 There's no stopping overnight. You operate day and night. You 0:17:51.480 --> 0:17:53.600 want to sleep, get you give your bag out, light 0:17:53.640 --> 0:17:55.200 out on the ice and have a snooze. We don't 0:17:55.200 --> 0:17:58.680 really care. And it's self supported, so you can take 0:17:58.720 --> 0:17:59.560 anything you want. 0:18:00.359 --> 0:18:01.240 You can everything. 0:18:01.359 --> 0:18:03.760 You've got to drag it, you gotta carry it. So 0:18:04.520 --> 0:18:08.000 there's you. There's six hundred fourteen kilometers there's a twenty 0:18:08.000 --> 0:18:11.879 five kilo sled and there's you know, two hundred and 0:18:11.920 --> 0:18:13.879 fifteen hours to get the job done. Have had it, 0:18:13.960 --> 0:18:16.560 young man, And the average file rates eighty percent. So 0:18:16.600 --> 0:18:18.920 in the first seven years that they ran the race, 0:18:19.000 --> 0:18:23.919 eleven people finished in total. So yeah, totally, so it 0:18:23.960 --> 0:18:26.200 has There's only been six winners up until that point 0:18:26.240 --> 0:18:28.800 because most of years no one finished. There was just 0:18:28.880 --> 0:18:30.720 like one hundred percent no one, no one made it 0:18:30.720 --> 0:18:33.040 to the finish line. So I'd attempted it in twenty 0:18:33.080 --> 0:18:36.879 seventeen and DNF to two hundred and fifty k's in 0:18:37.040 --> 0:18:41.080 like just battered, broken, frozen, starving, hallucinating. This is so 0:18:41.200 --> 0:18:44.440 beyond me. I'll never oh my god. And I went 0:18:44.520 --> 0:18:47.679 back in twenty nineteen to reattempt it and that's another story. 0:18:47.760 --> 0:18:51.679 But I got three quarters of the way through that 0:18:51.880 --> 0:18:55.320 race and had really reached a point where you know, 0:18:55.400 --> 0:18:58.920 you're completely for I was, I averaged. I was getting 0:18:58.960 --> 0:19:01.960 twenty minutes sleep mid morning, twenty minutes in the afternoon, 0:19:01.960 --> 0:19:04.120 and forty minutes at night. And that was on purpose. 0:19:04.119 --> 0:19:06.240