1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:03,520 Speaker 1: If you had a goal for yourself, if you're a parent, 2 00:00:03,720 --> 00:00:05,360 Speaker 1: if you want to be the best dead you can be, 3 00:00:05,640 --> 00:00:07,680 Speaker 1: or you want to stay healthy, you want to run 4 00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:09,559 Speaker 1: a half marathon, or do background with your kids, or 5 00:00:09,560 --> 00:00:13,640 Speaker 1: whatever you is, why would you not support yourself? What 6 00:00:13,720 --> 00:00:15,079 Speaker 1: would you sabatize. 7 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:29,640 Speaker 2: Yourself or what can you mad man welcome creating Vito. 8 00:00:29,720 --> 00:00:31,600 Speaker 1: I have been referred to as the mad sideist. I'll 9 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:33,280 Speaker 1: take it as a bench of honor. I think that's okay. 10 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:34,840 Speaker 1: I'll tell you a big work. 11 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:39,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, you are a mad scientist, but not in the 12 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:41,879 Speaker 3: way that people think about. So you're a scientists, you're 13 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:45,480 Speaker 3: a pharmacist by trade, right, but you've also been done 14 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:48,360 Speaker 3: bit a building. You've been a property developer, an entrepreneur, 15 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:50,640 Speaker 3: you're a public speaker. I met you on the circuit. 16 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:56,960 Speaker 3: But you have this kind of hobby of doing mad shit. 17 00:00:57,080 --> 00:00:58,959 Speaker 1: I think that's a technical phrase. Yeah, that's the best 18 00:00:59,000 --> 00:00:59,480 Speaker 1: foot on here. 19 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:04,119 Speaker 3: It is so talk to. So you do trio running, 20 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:07,560 Speaker 3: claiming all sorts of stuff, and you've done expeditions on 21 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:11,640 Speaker 3: seven different continents, which is pretty faky cool. Talk us 22 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:13,960 Speaker 3: through the highlights of those. 23 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 1: Where do you start look to give people some context 24 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:17,760 Speaker 1: I think to begin with is that I'm not an 25 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:20,160 Speaker 1: elite athlete. I like to get that clear out front, 26 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 1: like the glasses are fairly thick, I'm below average height. 27 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:26,160 Speaker 1: I'm a nerd like fall through and through chess club, 28 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:28,759 Speaker 1: debate club, theater club, the whole lot in high school, 29 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 1: like you name it. And I really got into running 30 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:34,520 Speaker 1: purely because it was the only sport I could do. 31 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:36,680 Speaker 1: I was in high school where you had to do 32 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:39,560 Speaker 1: competitive sport, train two nights a week, compete in the weekends. 33 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:42,840 Speaker 1: I'm too small for footy, too short for basketball, too 34 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:45,520 Speaker 1: on co for cricket, so you do cross country running 35 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 1: and that got me into running. Flash forward, you know, 36 00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:50,720 Speaker 1: into a career and you do the usual thing. You know, 37 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 1: you're building businesses, doing all the things, and the health 38 00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:56,120 Speaker 1: gets pushed to the side, push to the side, push 39 00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 1: to the side, until you get a wake up call 40 00:01:58,120 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 1: one day we go, hey, guess what happens if you 41 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:02,600 Speaker 1: with the most money, you don't win. You're just did 42 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:04,920 Speaker 1: and that's it. So I decided that I really needed 43 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:06,520 Speaker 1: to do something about that because it was going to 44 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:08,079 Speaker 1: have an ending that wasn't really great. Like I was 45 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:10,959 Speaker 1: very successful, but what else well, my life had no 46 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:13,440 Speaker 1: other dimension or color to it. So I went and 47 00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 1: did a very basic trek in Nepaul, purely as a 48 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:20,079 Speaker 1: way for escapism from the corporate world. And I loved 49 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:21,799 Speaker 1: it and loved how it maybe feel. And I came 50 00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:24,840 Speaker 1: back and went, well, what's next. And I went and 51 00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:27,919 Speaker 1: did the Kakoda track. My grandfather fought and rebell and 52 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:30,519 Speaker 1: New Britain just north of there in World War Two, 53 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:33,000 Speaker 1: so it retraced his footsteps. I did the co Coda track. 54 00:02:33,639 --> 00:02:37,200 Speaker 1: I loved it, went what's next, and just started to iterate, 55 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:40,400 Speaker 1: no plan, just well, the next hardest thing would be this, 56 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:43,520 Speaker 1: and the next hardest thing would be that, and a 57 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:45,640 Speaker 1: few years down the track, next thing. And I was 58 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:49,720 Speaker 1: catching a flight on this this Russian Eleutian military cargo 59 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:53,600 Speaker 1: jet out of the southern end of They are there, 60 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 1: Oh my god. Yeah, and we're not talking. Oh'm mister Watkins. 61 00:02:56,639 --> 00:02:58,880 Speaker 1: Twelve b you know, three rows down the left. It's like, 62 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:01,920 Speaker 1: get in, find a wooden bench seat on the right, 63 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:04,359 Speaker 1: you know, between all the cargo that's strapped in the middle, 64 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 1: and hang on. And we flew six hours from Puntarenas 65 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:13,680 Speaker 1: in southern South America into Patriot Hills and Antarctica, and 66 00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:16,359 Speaker 1: I've got my passports stamped at Patriot Hills and Antarctica. 67 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:19,840 Speaker 1: Caught a flight on a twin out to base camp. 68 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:23,720 Speaker 1: It was myself, three other people and a lead guide 69 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 1: and we were there to climb the Vincent Massive, the 70 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:29,680 Speaker 1: highest peak on the Antarctic continent, unsupported. Just us and 71 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 1: what you brought. Yeah, I was a complete move. I 72 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 1: said to the guide, you know, what's the time zone here? 73 00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:37,119 Speaker 1: And he's like, mate, the sun never goes down here, 74 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:39,640 Speaker 1: like there is no there is no there is no 75 00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 1: time zones. We climb for twelve hours, we sleep and 76 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 1: we eat, and we get up and we do it 77 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 1: again until the job's down. And this was way back 78 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:50,480 Speaker 1: when it was wasn't very commercial. There was no fixed ropes, 79 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 1: there was no like. It was just we're going to 80 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:54,440 Speaker 1: tackle that headwall. Yeah nothing. It was just we're going 81 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:56,119 Speaker 1: to tackle that headwall until we get to the top 82 00:03:56,120 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 1: of it. And it takes as long as it takes. 83 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:00,720 Speaker 3: And how much claim experience. 84 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:04,560 Speaker 1: I'd only done two our three reasonable climbs have done 85 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:06,760 Speaker 1: Mer Peak in Nepal, which is a mountain but the 86 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:09,080 Speaker 1: Nepalese referred to as like a small hill, like it's 87 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:12,720 Speaker 1: about six thousand meters but very basic, really touristy kind 88 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 1: of thing. You can walk up and down it. That's fine. 89 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:16,680 Speaker 1: I don't kill him a jar in Africa, And I'd 90 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:19,159 Speaker 1: had a failed attemp on Akin Kagua in South America, 91 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:21,160 Speaker 1: which is seven thousand meters above sea level, which is 92 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:23,560 Speaker 1: a different kettle affairs. And I've done some training in 93 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:26,240 Speaker 1: New Zealand. I've been over to South Island, done some 94 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:28,960 Speaker 1: cravas rescue stuff and just tried to fill the talk 95 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:31,839 Speaker 1: kid with the skills. But like I was on that plane, 96 00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:33,800 Speaker 1: that Russian military plane, and I'm looking around at the 97 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:36,479 Speaker 1: guy's next to me, like on their sweating bullets, and 98 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:38,640 Speaker 1: the guy next to me is asleep. And this guy 99 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:41,480 Speaker 1: summoned ever six times, and this guy's on his third 100 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 1: trip to McMurdo, And I'm like, what am I doing? 101 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:47,760 Speaker 1: You're an idiot, You are so out of your death. 102 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:50,360 Speaker 1: But then we spend nearly the best part of the month, 103 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:52,760 Speaker 1: like we had about forty fifty kilos a year per 104 00:04:52,839 --> 00:04:55,039 Speaker 1: man just and you're just hauling it just to be 105 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:58,280 Speaker 1: the backpacking it or hauling it in a sled, and 106 00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:01,760 Speaker 1: we literally get to a point and we got out 107 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:03,839 Speaker 1: of base camp and the guy had got his GPS 108 00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:06,719 Speaker 1: out and he walked us around. He said, dig a 109 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:09,440 Speaker 1: hole there. So you dig a hole, and here's all 110 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:12,760 Speaker 1: the supplies that he'd left there last year, food, everything, 111 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 1: And I'm like, just leave it here, and he's like, 112 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:18,720 Speaker 1: who's going to nicke it? Mate, Like there's no one here, likes. 113 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:20,560 Speaker 3: No wildlife, and it's not good. 114 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:23,760 Speaker 1: It's not going to go off. I'm not going to 115 00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:26,120 Speaker 1: bring home. We come back and he's pulling out like 116 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:28,840 Speaker 1: these yead lamb sunks and red wine that have been 117 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 1: free cryovacked and froze it up, and he stashed them there, 118 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:34,240 Speaker 1: and he's got his tents and his cooking year and 119 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:35,920 Speaker 1: all that kind of stuff. He said, we just bear 120 00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 1: it in the ice. We'll come back next year. I'll 121 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:39,360 Speaker 1: get you goons to dig it up, and we're good 122 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:42,720 Speaker 1: to go. So yeh, God, fair enough. So you just 123 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:47,160 Speaker 1: you end up finding yourself in weird places, meeting really 124 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:50,799 Speaker 1: interesting characters, doing things that you never thought you would 125 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:53,560 Speaker 1: ever do. And I think for me, that's really been 126 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:56,880 Speaker 1: the line that's gone through all of them. Just it's 127 00:05:57,000 --> 00:06:00,000 Speaker 1: not about telling other people what you did. It's about 128 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:01,600 Speaker 1: I went to do that because I wanted to have 129 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:05,200 Speaker 1: that experience in that place for me. And if no 130 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:07,599 Speaker 1: one ever knows, that's fine, and that really adds color 131 00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:08,880 Speaker 1: to it, I think invadues to it. 132 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 3: And so talk us through. What were the conditions alike? 133 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:15,320 Speaker 3: You were obviously there are at a good time of year, 134 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:18,400 Speaker 3: but good time of year and Antarctica can be a 135 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:20,560 Speaker 3: little different, right, Yeah, it was. 136 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:23,520 Speaker 1: It was minus forty pretty much twenty four to seven. 137 00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:27,320 Speaker 1: Now we had we had three men to a tent. 138 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:30,159 Speaker 3: And when I'm no, no, I'm sorry, I've got some 139 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:34,960 Speaker 3: American listeners on this podcast. So minus forty categret. 140 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:37,279 Speaker 1: Minus forty seven grade, it's minus forty fahrenheit. It's the 141 00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:40,479 Speaker 1: same that the graph crosses, yeah, which is very convenient. 142 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:43,920 Speaker 1: But about minus forty is the same in both, which 143 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:47,200 Speaker 1: is nice and handy. So it's about minus forty most days. Now, 144 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:49,880 Speaker 1: we had we had three men in a tent. Now 145 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:53,000 Speaker 1: in the tent, the amount of room is if PT 146 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:55,279 Speaker 1: needs to go for a leak and a toweling outside 147 00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:57,240 Speaker 1: and you can't go, then the other two of us 148 00:06:57,240 --> 00:06:58,920 Speaker 1: are just going to roll over and give him a 149 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 1: little bit of room. To deal with it has to do, 150 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:02,640 Speaker 1: and then we'll all roll back and have a really 151 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:06,240 Speaker 1: uncomfortable conversation. But if we slept in that tent for 152 00:07:06,279 --> 00:07:08,760 Speaker 1: eight hours, the warmest we got to the tent was 153 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:11,280 Speaker 1: minus eighteen. I think we got the inside of the 154 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:14,800 Speaker 1: tent to minus eighteen. And we operated in that for weeks. 155 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 1: And you just part of me loves the discipline of 156 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 1: doing that because you can never turn off. You have 157 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:23,520 Speaker 1: to be conscious of what you're doing all the time. 158 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:26,680 Speaker 1: You know, you drop a glove down a glacier, may 159 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:29,040 Speaker 1: you're you're in trouble, like you have you got the 160 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:31,160 Speaker 1: right gear? You can't just pop into the local arii 161 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:34,320 Speaker 1: and buy another glove. That's not happening. You've got to 162 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:35,800 Speaker 1: be Have you got the right gear on? Have you 163 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:40,160 Speaker 1: got the fluid being managed? You're overheating, undercooked? You always 164 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 1: have to be paying attention every month. Are you going 165 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 1: for a leak? Okay? Have you got your boots on properly? 166 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 1: Do you know where you're going? If it's a white act? 167 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:50,120 Speaker 1: Do you know how to get back? Just everything minus 168 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:54,480 Speaker 1: simple things require total focus twenty four to seven. And 169 00:07:54,520 --> 00:07:57,800 Speaker 1: I find that really fascinating, just as a scientific experiment 170 00:07:57,880 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 1: to see can you have your mind in that space 171 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:02,320 Speaker 1: all the time. So you're twenty four hour sunlight, which 172 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 1: sounds really great until like day four or five and 173 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:08,720 Speaker 1: your brain is like, what the hell is going on? 174 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 1: Like this? It really started to throw your brain out 175 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:13,960 Speaker 1: after a while, Like it seemed really cool the first night, 176 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 1: but after a few days it was just I can't sleep. 177 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:19,040 Speaker 1: You don't know what time of date it is. You know, 178 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:22,600 Speaker 1: you don't know what day it is. It became quite 179 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:25,560 Speaker 1: quite weird to have your system completely utterly thrown out 180 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 1: like that. 181 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:29,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, And what most people don't realize is you're lots 182 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:31,800 Speaker 3: of yourselves were on off certainty and cycles, and you've 183 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 3: been bill if you're getting up in the middle of 184 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:37,920 Speaker 3: the eight and it's bright, us, tell me this what 185 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 3: for something like that? What's more challenging? Is it the 186 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:46,439 Speaker 3: physicality or the mental side of things? 187 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:49,640 Speaker 1: I always revert to the mental side of things. Physically, 188 00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:53,800 Speaker 1: it's extremely difficult, as you would expect, and in all 189 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:55,720 Speaker 1: those expeditions, you know that there will be a point 190 00:08:55,720 --> 00:08:57,720 Speaker 1: where your body says, you can get stuffed. We're not 191 00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:00,440 Speaker 1: doing this, like we're just bur We're not doing it anymore. 192 00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:03,240 Speaker 1: And then it really is about having the mindset and 193 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:05,800 Speaker 1: the framework upstairs to go, well, no, we still have 194 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:08,920 Speaker 1: to execute because we're still here. Particularly in an expedition 195 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:11,120 Speaker 1: like that, you can't leave, you can't go home, you 196 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:11,640 Speaker 1: can't quit. 197 00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:14,319 Speaker 3: I was supposed to say, when you have no opdate, 198 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:20,040 Speaker 3: it's amazing what human beings are when they can't say. 199 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:21,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, and like you can say you're done, but 200 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:25,440 Speaker 1: you're like, well, particularly for us, we're doing in both 201 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:28,840 Speaker 1: that expedition and in Denali in Alaska, you're roped up 202 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:30,800 Speaker 1: for glacier travel, so you're in rope teams of three 203 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:34,560 Speaker 1: or four people. There's no eye. There's just neither we 204 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:37,080 Speaker 1: can all do it or we all can't do it, 205 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:40,199 Speaker 1: but there's no Well Steve can do it, but Paul can't, 206 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:42,160 Speaker 1: so Paul will sit down and wait. No, no, no, no, no. 207 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:45,400 Speaker 1: We're together, everyone who is focused on everyone else. And 208 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:47,880 Speaker 1: I know you guys met each other in an airport hangar, 209 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:51,880 Speaker 1: you know, talketner in Alaska a week ago, but now 210 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:53,800 Speaker 1: you're tied together, and if one of you screws up, 211 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:55,719 Speaker 1: someone might die. So I really need you to pay 212 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 1: attention and I really need you to trust each other 213 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:01,680 Speaker 1: because we're not this isn't again anymore. So I find 214 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:03,480 Speaker 1: it is a very delicate balance. You've got to bring 215 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:06,400 Speaker 1: the talk kit physically to be prepared, but you have 216 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:09,000 Speaker 1: to have your mental point, really your mental game really 217 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:11,880 Speaker 1: on point, and it has to stay on point all 218 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:14,599 Speaker 1: the time. And that doesn't mean you're David Goggins the 219 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:16,520 Speaker 1: whole time. There's a lot of gallows humor and there's 220 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 1: a lot of there's a lot of dark laughter and 221 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:20,320 Speaker 1: all that kind of stuff because you have to balance 222 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:22,559 Speaker 1: it out so no one's getting up and going, you know, 223 00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:25,640 Speaker 1: full Goggans all the time. It's really a balance of 224 00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:28,880 Speaker 1: we've got to respect the environment. We've really all got 225 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:31,320 Speaker 1: to deliver. We're allowed to have a laugh along the 226 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:33,240 Speaker 1: way as long as we all know we're doing what 227 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:33,920 Speaker 1: we need to do. 228 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:40,400 Speaker 3: And that gallual humor is extremely important right in those 229 00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:44,680 Speaker 3: dark situations and people if you go I remember doing 230 00:10:44,679 --> 00:10:48,160 Speaker 3: helicopter starch and rescue and turn my first gig and 231 00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:52,000 Speaker 3: putting dead bodies into the aircraft. That the gallus humor 232 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:55,360 Speaker 3: was a little bit shocking to me initially, but then 233 00:10:55,920 --> 00:10:58,839 Speaker 3: you know, it's a copying strategy, right for that sort 234 00:10:58,840 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 3: of stuff. And particularly when you're in shitty situations, the 235 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 3: ability to just laugh at each other and laugh at 236 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:09,920 Speaker 3: the ridiculousness of your situation, and the fact that you 237 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:13,320 Speaker 3: choose to be there, right. It's the stuff that just 238 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:14,079 Speaker 3: keeps you. 239 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:17,360 Speaker 1: We're acking Kagar, which I mentioned in South America the 240 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:19,640 Speaker 1: second time I was there. We got to a camp 241 00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:22,199 Speaker 1: and there's a camp three, which is the second highest 242 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:25,120 Speaker 1: camp is called helicopter camp. And when you get there, 243 00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:28,400 Speaker 1: there's two parts of hell. There's two helicopters just strewn 244 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:31,440 Speaker 1: across the landscape and everyone ties the tents down to it. 245 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:33,560 Speaker 1: So what had happened a few years earlier, Polish team 246 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:36,480 Speaker 1: had got stuck called the ranges for help. The Rages 247 00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:39,400 Speaker 1: sent a chopper up, the chopper crashed, everyone died. They 248 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:42,720 Speaker 1: sent a second chopper that crashed, and then the ranger said, stuff, 249 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:45,400 Speaker 1: you're on your own, you know, figure it out. We're 250 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:47,880 Speaker 1: not sending anyone else up there. So you're up there, 251 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:50,319 Speaker 1: and you know six thousand there's probably five and a 252 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:52,560 Speaker 1: half thousand meters by sea level. They camp tying your 253 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:55,199 Speaker 1: tent down to like road of blades and half an 254 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:59,520 Speaker 1: engine block and just you're doing that, going this is ridiculous. 255 00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:02,920 Speaker 1: You go, but these are the environments you're in, and 256 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:05,040 Speaker 1: I love part of the fact that it is so 257 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:09,400 Speaker 1: removed from everyone else's sense of normal. But when you 258 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:13,040 Speaker 1: come home, you've been completely recalibrated. And maybe that doesn't 259 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:15,080 Speaker 1: mean you integrate to the society well when you get 260 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:19,240 Speaker 1: on quickly, but your perspective of what's normal and what's 261 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:23,960 Speaker 1: difficult and what constitutes hard has now been completely recalibrated. 262 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:27,040 Speaker 1: And I think that's what serves you extremely well for 263 00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:28,640 Speaker 1: the rest of your life, whether you go do something 264 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:29,400 Speaker 1: like that again or not. 265 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:31,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, one hundred percent. The other thing I wanted to 266 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:35,319 Speaker 3: tap on that you mentioned was that level of trust. 267 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:39,520 Speaker 3: I remember having a conversation with Red Crawford, who's a 268 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:42,880 Speaker 3: good better mine. He's ex Lieutenant Colonel Sas and we 269 00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:46,640 Speaker 3: were talking about a high performance teams model for pat 270 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:48,960 Speaker 3: Lend Chilney and right at the bottom of its trust 271 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:51,600 Speaker 3: and he had introduced me to it and he said, Peter, 272 00:12:51,679 --> 00:12:53,480 Speaker 3: you're going to love this because he says, you'll see 273 00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:56,440 Speaker 3: so much of what we had in the military as 274 00:12:56,520 --> 00:13:00,920 Speaker 3: a nut model, that level of deep trust. Right. So 275 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:04,080 Speaker 3: in organizations, I often say, if we've worked together for 276 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:07,800 Speaker 3: a decade. We have what's called predictive trust in that 277 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:09,480 Speaker 3: I kind of know how you're going to behave in 278 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:12,040 Speaker 3: certain situations, and you know how I'm going to be heaving. 279 00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:16,680 Speaker 3: That gives that level of trust, But this deeper trust 280 00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:20,800 Speaker 3: is based on you know, healing back the layers of 281 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:25,160 Speaker 3: the onion and seeing into somebody else's soul, right, And 282 00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:27,680 Speaker 3: I think probably the experience that I had was combat 283 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:30,680 Speaker 3: survival and Resistance to interrogation training and the guys that 284 00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:33,120 Speaker 3: I was on that course with a particular guy, I 285 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:37,360 Speaker 3: was buddied up with, like just the depth of trust 286 00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:41,719 Speaker 3: and the connection, the human connection that comes out of that, 287 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:45,280 Speaker 3: Like is that something that you found that those people 288 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:47,840 Speaker 3: that you've been on those expeditions that you could then 289 00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:51,600 Speaker 3: see them twenty years later and it's just like yeah. 290 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:53,640 Speaker 1: Two wise. I mean, one is I can predict how 291 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:55,880 Speaker 1: you're going to behave, but I also get a feeling 292 00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:58,079 Speaker 1: for when you're not behaving within those bands. So I 293 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:00,280 Speaker 1: got something's wrong with Pete. That's not a normal action 294 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:03,360 Speaker 1: for him, so that I can then intervene to go, hey, mate, 295 00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:05,520 Speaker 1: you all right, like is everything okay? Do we need 296 00:14:05,559 --> 00:14:07,160 Speaker 1: to or do we need to pull you out of 297 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:10,280 Speaker 1: this scenario, like you not only know how you'll react, 298 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:12,320 Speaker 1: I can identify when you're out of bounds, and I 299 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:14,240 Speaker 1: know that, hey, you might need to make to step 300 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:15,880 Speaker 1: in and give you a hand here and see how 301 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:19,160 Speaker 1: you going. And I've seen that on expeditions where we've 302 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:22,640 Speaker 1: had early in the expedition, the guide will absolutely flog 303 00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:25,040 Speaker 1: us like and people are like, what is going on here? 304 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:26,840 Speaker 1: Like we're not we're not late for a meeting, like 305 00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:30,040 Speaker 1: why we gave absolutely gun? And you realize it kind 306 00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:32,000 Speaker 1: of I need to see what happens when you're exhausted 307 00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 1: and you're not happy about life. I need to know 308 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:35,920 Speaker 1: who's going to crack it, who's going to go, well, 309 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:38,040 Speaker 1: that was a rough day and be fine. We need 310 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:39,960 Speaker 1: to kind of sort a little week from the chaff, 311 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:42,320 Speaker 1: because we are only together for say a month on 312 00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:44,480 Speaker 1: this hill, but the second half of that month is 313 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 1: going to be deadly serious. So I need to sort 314 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:49,400 Speaker 1: out a few things before we go. So it's interesting 315 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 1: to see how those people operate because they don't have 316 00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:54,040 Speaker 1: ten years to figure us out. They've been handed a 317 00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:58,080 Speaker 1: bunch of randoms and they need to assess them very quickly. 318 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:01,640 Speaker 1: From both the physical capabilit and a mental and psychological 319 00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:05,080 Speaker 1: capability very quickly. So what do they do. They put 320 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:07,520 Speaker 1: you through a hard time quickly and see what you're like. 321 00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:11,040 Speaker 1: We can quickly assess Okay, who's got the physical fortitude, 322 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:12,920 Speaker 1: but how are you going to react mentally? And then 323 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:14,520 Speaker 1: I could go, okay, well that team's going to be 324 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:16,080 Speaker 1: that team, and that team's going to be that team, 325 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 1: and you and I are going to sit down and 326 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:20,240 Speaker 1: have a very hard chat about with your going any 327 00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:22,880 Speaker 1: further on this hill at all. And it's interesting. I 328 00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:24,720 Speaker 1: love that because you realize the guides are running a 329 00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:27,320 Speaker 1: commercial operation, but they're not treating you like, oh, you're 330 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:30,240 Speaker 1: the customer, and the customer is always right. Love guides 331 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:34,720 Speaker 1: rip clients to shreds because they did one stupid thing, 332 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:36,600 Speaker 1: and they're like, well, you just endangered all of us, 333 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:38,320 Speaker 1: and I don't give a shit how much money you paid. 334 00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:40,520 Speaker 1: I'm going to tell you when you won, because that 335 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:43,640 Speaker 1: was just not in line with what we must do 336 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:46,160 Speaker 1: to execute what we need to do here, and that 337 00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 1: was that was a great wake up call for me too, 338 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:51,440 Speaker 1: just to see how people at that level operate. You're right, 339 00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:52,840 Speaker 1: it's a fascinating insight. 340 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:58,600 Speaker 3: I remember a conversation with doctor Stanley Beacham stand the 341 00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:02,720 Speaker 3: man who I love, and we were talking about discomfort, 342 00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:06,520 Speaker 3: and he said that he said, what most people don't 343 00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:10,200 Speaker 3: realize is that in order to live your really best life, 344 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:13,320 Speaker 3: every now and then you need to walk right to 345 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:17,920 Speaker 3: the edge of yourself and stir into the abyss and 346 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:20,480 Speaker 3: work out what the abyss tells you and take it 347 00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:24,680 Speaker 3: on board. I assume you've stirred into the abyss once 348 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:28,240 Speaker 3: or twice. Talk us through. Give me, give us an 349 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:31,920 Speaker 3: example where you were right at the edge of yourself 350 00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:36,160 Speaker 3: and and sort of took something on board or learned something. 351 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 1: I describe it as you have to go all the 352 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:40,640 Speaker 1: way to the very back of Ukrainium, all the way 353 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:43,200 Speaker 1: to the darkest little spot. And if you go all 354 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:45,560 Speaker 1: the way back there, there's a little room and there's 355 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:47,720 Speaker 1: something in it that you've kept locked away for a 356 00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:51,760 Speaker 1: long time, and every now and then liveful demand that 357 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:53,800 Speaker 1: you have to open that room and let that guy 358 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:55,840 Speaker 1: out and let him do what he's got to do. 359 00:16:56,520 --> 00:16:58,640 Speaker 1: And that I refer that as the lost Savage, like 360 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:01,280 Speaker 1: they're just the barberia and up the back in the 361 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:03,520 Speaker 1: cave that you've locked away, and every now and then 362 00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 1: you need to let that guy out. So I had 363 00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:10,480 Speaker 1: I had an ultra marathon in the Canadian Arctic in 364 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:13,040 Speaker 1: twenty Yeah, of course it's it. 365 00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:20,240 Speaker 2: Not just an ultra marathon, but an ultra martha. 366 00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:22,199 Speaker 1: Didn't give it. You're any pt Do you want to 367 00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:26,960 Speaker 1: give you the specs? Six hundred and fourteen kilometers single stage, 368 00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:29,240 Speaker 1: single stage. I put you on the start line points 369 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:32,080 Speaker 1: at north and we start an eagle planes in the 370 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:34,959 Speaker 1: Yukon and then they send you north six hundred and 371 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:39,200 Speaker 1: fourteen kilometers to the little Inuit village of Tuck, which 372 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:41,600 Speaker 1: is on the very northern end of Canada. Like there's Tuck, 373 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:44,480 Speaker 1: there's the North poland then there's Norway and that's it. 374 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:47,880 Speaker 1: Now it's single stage, so you operate twenty four to seven. 375 00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:51,439 Speaker 1: There's no stopping overnight. You operate day and night. You 376 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:53,600 Speaker 1: want to sleep, get you give your bag out, light 377 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:55,200 Speaker 1: out on the ice and have a snooze. We don't 378 00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:58,680 Speaker 1: really care. And it's self supported, so you can take 379 00:17:58,720 --> 00:17:59,560 Speaker 1: anything you want. 380 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:01,240 Speaker 3: You can everything. 381 00:18:01,359 --> 00:18:03,760 Speaker 1: You've got to drag it, you gotta carry it. So 382 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:08,000 Speaker 1: there's you. There's six hundred fourteen kilometers there's a twenty 383 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:11,879 Speaker 1: five kilo sled and there's you know, two hundred and 384 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:13,879 Speaker 1: fifteen hours to get the job done. Have had it, 385 00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:16,560 Speaker 1: young man, And the average file rates eighty percent. So 386 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:18,920 Speaker 1: in the first seven years that they ran the race, 387 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:23,919 Speaker 1: eleven people finished in total. So yeah, totally, so it 388 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:26,200 Speaker 1: has There's only been six winners up until that point 389 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:28,800 Speaker 1: because most of years no one finished. There was just 390 00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:30,720 Speaker 1: like one hundred percent no one, no one made it 391 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:33,040 Speaker 1: to the finish line. So I'd attempted it in twenty 392 00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:36,879 Speaker 1: seventeen and DNF to two hundred and fifty k's in 393 00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:41,080 Speaker 1: like just battered, broken, frozen, starving, hallucinating. This is so 394 00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:44,440 Speaker 1: beyond me. I'll never oh my god. And I went 395 00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:47,679 Speaker 1: back in twenty nineteen to reattempt it and that's another story. 396 00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:51,679 Speaker 1: But I got three quarters of the way through that 397 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:55,320 Speaker 1: race and had really reached a point where you know, 398 00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:58,920 Speaker 1: you're completely for I was, I averaged. I was getting 399 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:01,960 Speaker 1: twenty minutes sleep mid morning, twenty minutes in the afternoon, 400 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:04,120 Speaker 1: and forty minutes at night. And that was on purpose. 401 00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:06,240 Speaker 1: That was my structured sleep plan. And that's that's in 402 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:08,960 Speaker 1: a divvy in the snow. So you do that and 403 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:12,000 Speaker 1: you do that every day, seven days a week until 404 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:14,159 Speaker 1: the job gets done. Now you can do that for 405 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:16,840 Speaker 1: a period of time, but towards the end, I would 406 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:19,680 Speaker 1: just start your body would just start packing it in. 407 00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:24,440 Speaker 1: We we'll wake up. They kick in kind of day two, 408 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:27,359 Speaker 1: day three, but we're day day five and day six. 409 00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 1: And the guy who was coming behind me, he said 410 00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:31,600 Speaker 1: to me after the race, we had a chat and 411 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:34,359 Speaker 1: he said, I could see your sledge tracks in the snow, 412 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:37,080 Speaker 1: and he said I would watch them and they'd be 413 00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:41,160 Speaker 1: straight and then they'd waver and then you'd do circles 414 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:43,760 Speaker 1: and then you fell over, didn't you. And I said, yeah, 415 00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:46,000 Speaker 1: because I'd black out. I'd just wake up and I'd 416 00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:47,920 Speaker 1: be just face down in the snow, so you'd get 417 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:51,040 Speaker 1: up and you'd just charge your head. And I reached 418 00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:54,639 Speaker 1: a point in that race going your body's completely shot. 419 00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:56,840 Speaker 1: But I actually had an opportunity to win it, like 420 00:19:56,880 --> 00:19:58,439 Speaker 1: I was at the front of the field. So you 421 00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:01,800 Speaker 1: had to have that whole conversation with yourself going how 422 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:04,560 Speaker 1: important is it to you to win this? Because where 423 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:08,320 Speaker 1: you've done everything right, We've got to this last little point, 424 00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:10,320 Speaker 1: but we're going to have to do some things that 425 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:12,760 Speaker 1: are beyond uncomfortable to finish this and to get over 426 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:15,159 Speaker 1: the line in time. So what I talk about is 427 00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:17,359 Speaker 1: I split my mind into there's the mind and the 428 00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:20,760 Speaker 1: body that's kind of seeing and experiencing the operation of 429 00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:23,359 Speaker 1: the race, and then there's the other mind that sits 430 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:25,959 Speaker 1: up the top here, and that mine's in charge, and 431 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:28,080 Speaker 1: it looks down at the meat wagon and says, the 432 00:20:28,119 --> 00:20:30,520 Speaker 1: meat wagon's going to do what it's told and we 433 00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:33,480 Speaker 1: don't really care what happens, but we're getting the job done. 434 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:35,679 Speaker 1: And that is the mind that you have to listen to, 435 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:37,920 Speaker 1: and it just tells you to do what to get done. 436 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:40,840 Speaker 1: And so I crossed that finish line. It took me 437 00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:43,280 Speaker 1: one hundred and ninety five hours to get from start 438 00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:46,800 Speaker 1: to finish. I at sixteen hours sleep. I got to 439 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:49,720 Speaker 1: the finish line. I couldn't feel anything from the back 440 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:51,440 Speaker 1: of my neck to the top of my butt because 441 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:53,680 Speaker 1: I've been dragging a sled. You just have that little 442 00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:56,200 Speaker 1: bit of flexion all the time because you're leaning forward 443 00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:58,439 Speaker 1: to drag a sled, and over time the muscles have 444 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:00,679 Speaker 1: got tighter and tighter and tighter and tighter, until that 445 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:04,400 Speaker 1: actually blocked the nerve transmission because just on the surface Laider, 446 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:06,480 Speaker 1: all the musculars are there. And I said to the medic, 447 00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:10,600 Speaker 1: I'm like, I can't film a spine that is that okay? 448 00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:13,760 Speaker 1: He's like, totally fine, totally normal. Three to six months, 449 00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:17,360 Speaker 1: don't worry about you. You'll be fine. She'll be good. 450 00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:20,760 Speaker 1: He was right. It took me nearly six months to 451 00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:24,120 Speaker 1: get full feeling back. But that was a case where 452 00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:26,359 Speaker 1: I really stared into the abyss and went, well, how 453 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:28,119 Speaker 1: bad do you want it? Because you're just you're going 454 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:29,560 Speaker 1: to have to break a lot of stuff and not 455 00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:31,560 Speaker 1: all of that stuff will repair. How far do you 456 00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:32,960 Speaker 1: want to go? And I'm like, I'll burn to the ground. 457 00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:35,080 Speaker 1: I don't care. Like, let's go. This is my one 458 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:39,160 Speaker 1: chance to do something that insane, and so I did. 459 00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:40,560 Speaker 1: I stared in the byss, I went all the way 460 00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:42,320 Speaker 1: to the back. I dug to the bottom of the 461 00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:44,200 Speaker 1: well and opened that door and let that guy out 462 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:46,400 Speaker 1: and said have at it and do your worst, mate, 463 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:48,600 Speaker 1: Let's just do it. And we did. And yeah, I 464 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:51,240 Speaker 1: dragged that slid for one hundred ninety fty one minutes 465 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:53,639 Speaker 1: and I was the second Australian to ever finish that 466 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:56,199 Speaker 1: race and the first Australian to win it. But you 467 00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:57,560 Speaker 1: had to let the air, you had to let the 468 00:21:57,560 --> 00:21:59,920 Speaker 1: savage guy out of the back to get it done. 469 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:04,679 Speaker 3: You've won the freaking rest. That is ridiculous. I mean, 470 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:05,880 Speaker 3: they're stirring into. 471 00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:07,720 Speaker 1: The They're throwing yourself into. 472 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:11,879 Speaker 4: Stirring into the well, they're stirring into the Paul Watkins 473 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:16,280 Speaker 4: the Best, which I think is just orders of magnitude 474 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:18,280 Speaker 4: removed from me. 475 00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:21,760 Speaker 1: Now here's an indication of how how wrong I can be. 476 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:25,359 Speaker 1: That I finished that race, and then a year later 477 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:29,320 Speaker 1: I went so I won that. Now I'm a scientist, 478 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:32,679 Speaker 1: So did I figure out the equation? So the hypothesis was, 479 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:34,560 Speaker 1: did I figure out an equation on how to win 480 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:38,440 Speaker 1: those kind of you know, super long, super technical, super 481 00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:40,840 Speaker 1: cold races, or did you just have a lucky day. 482 00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:42,760 Speaker 1: Now you're a scientist, you know the only way you 483 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:45,800 Speaker 1: can test a hypothesis is to run an experiment. So 484 00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:48,440 Speaker 1: I went to Sweden in twenty twenty three and did 485 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:51,560 Speaker 1: a very similar race with the sole purpose of trying 486 00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:54,639 Speaker 1: to win it to see did I figure out the equation? Like, 487 00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:56,320 Speaker 1: am I good enough? Do I know how to do this? 488 00:22:56,760 --> 00:22:58,920 Speaker 1: Or did I just have one of those days where 489 00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:02,080 Speaker 1: everyone else fellow. So I went into a five hundred 490 00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:04,680 Speaker 1: and three kilometer ultra of the Arctic in northern Sweden 491 00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:09,840 Speaker 1: last year and tested the hypothesis. And you burnt a 492 00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:13,359 Speaker 1: few neurons and did some synaptic pruning with way excessive 493 00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:16,800 Speaker 1: sleep deprivation and dragged my slip for eight days and 494 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:17,960 Speaker 1: still in the podium. 495 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:21,320 Speaker 3: So again that's that's another same thing as just you 496 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:23,480 Speaker 3: sleep when you want, but you Yeah, it was a different. 497 00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:25,480 Speaker 1: Race in the sense that it was full back country wilderness. 498 00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:29,080 Speaker 1: So this was in the Laplandian Arctic, so full back 499 00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:33,159 Speaker 1: country wilderness like here, there's no map, here's your GPS. 500 00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:35,400 Speaker 1: You know, figured it out as you go. And they'd 501 00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:37,400 Speaker 1: said to us, I said, look, if you get into serious, 502 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:40,520 Speaker 1: serious trouble. You were crossing huge frozen lakes and trying 503 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:42,680 Speaker 1: to get over frozen rivers. They said, if it really 504 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:46,080 Speaker 1: goes wrong, hits your emergency button. But understand that the 505 00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:49,880 Speaker 1: first person to rescue you will be you. It could 506 00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:51,680 Speaker 1: be a day before we can get a snowmobile out 507 00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:55,480 Speaker 1: to you, so figure it out until we get there. 508 00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:57,639 Speaker 1: So this was a slightly different environment in case of 509 00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:00,400 Speaker 1: going even if you wanted to sleep. Some times you're 510 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:02,360 Speaker 1: in areas where you can't just put the BV down 511 00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:04,240 Speaker 1: because you're on a frozen lake. You can't stop here. 512 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:06,560 Speaker 1: You must get to the other side of the lake, 513 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:09,399 Speaker 1: which will take you most of today or tonight or 514 00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:11,480 Speaker 1: whatever it is. So sometimes the case, if you want 515 00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:15,000 Speaker 1: to sleep that cool story, you literally can't. You must 516 00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:17,480 Speaker 1: stay awake until you get to an area where it's 517 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:20,240 Speaker 1: going to be safer to do that. So that logistically 518 00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:23,360 Speaker 1: was a slightly different scenario. And I'd gone there attempting 519 00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:25,639 Speaker 1: to win it. That original race in twenty nineteen, I 520 00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:27,879 Speaker 1: just wanted to finish it, but ended up winning it. 521 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:29,680 Speaker 1: This I went through with the mindset of I'm going 522 00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:33,000 Speaker 1: to win this, and that is a very different mental 523 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:35,280 Speaker 1: toolkit to bring, and it's a very different set of 524 00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:39,879 Speaker 1: pressures to place on yourself right from the starting gun 525 00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:42,720 Speaker 1: to play it out, and I had a very different experience. 526 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:45,240 Speaker 1: I came second in the end, but had a very 527 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:47,520 Speaker 1: different experience mentally. I ended up in a very dark 528 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:49,920 Speaker 1: hole early on because the race had gone not well 529 00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:52,879 Speaker 1: for me individually. I was getting whipped and found myself 530 00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:54,920 Speaker 1: way down the back of the pack and just in 531 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:58,399 Speaker 1: all kinds of diustrates, and then had to figure out 532 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:01,040 Speaker 1: a way to dig myself out of it hole and 533 00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:03,520 Speaker 1: get myself back in a position where I could operate 534 00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:05,520 Speaker 1: in the manner that I wanted to and execute the 535 00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:07,920 Speaker 1: way I wanted to. And that was a that took 536 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:10,440 Speaker 1: a long time. That was there were some dark nights 537 00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:12,439 Speaker 1: in that. I can tell you. Yeah, when it's you know, 538 00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:16,479 Speaker 1: minus thirty and you completely exhausted and starving, you're like, 539 00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:19,640 Speaker 1: this is this is not happy to This was not 540 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:21,320 Speaker 1: on the brochure or when I signed up. 541 00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:26,120 Speaker 3: So, Matt, what sort of techniques do you have for 542 00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:32,719 Speaker 3: overcoming this? Because most people really struggle with getting out 543 00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:34,399 Speaker 3: of bed at six o'clock in the morning to go 544 00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:39,000 Speaker 3: and do a workout, and they have this internal dialogue 545 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:42,440 Speaker 3: going on in this internal fight, and sometimes they win 546 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:46,400 Speaker 3: and sometimes they lose. But somebody who has has taken 547 00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:51,000 Speaker 3: human endurance, both physical and mental to the end degree, 548 00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:56,520 Speaker 3: what sort of things have you learned about the self talk? 549 00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:59,960 Speaker 3: You know, the mental models, how all of this place 550 00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:03,160 Speaker 3: that some people could actually use for them miseage. 551 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:04,640 Speaker 1: This is I love this. So you can you can 552 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:07,399 Speaker 1: go as deep down the rabbit hole as you want 553 00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:10,240 Speaker 1: on this. So We'll start with the easy stuff and 554 00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:12,240 Speaker 1: we'll direct to some of the deeper stuff if people 555 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:15,000 Speaker 1: want it. Some of the easy stuff is, let's talk 556 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:17,399 Speaker 1: about getting out of bed early and staying healthy. People 557 00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:20,520 Speaker 1: think discipline is I've got to be Jocko or Goggins, 558 00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:22,200 Speaker 1: or I've got to get up and at four point 559 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:24,280 Speaker 1: thirty and run a marathon and cold share and have 560 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:28,040 Speaker 1: a kal shake, and you know that's here discipline. I 561 00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:30,200 Speaker 1: like to reframe discipline as an act of self love. 562 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:34,280 Speaker 1: If you had a goal for yourself, if you're a parent, 563 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:36,679 Speaker 1: if you want to be the best dad you can be, 564 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:38,879 Speaker 1: or you want to stay healthy, you want to you 565 00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:41,240 Speaker 1: want to run a half marathon or do park round 566 00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:43,800 Speaker 1: with your kids or whatever it is. Why would you 567 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:48,320 Speaker 1: not support yourself, Why would you sabotage yourself? Well, it 568 00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:50,080 Speaker 1: should be an active self love. I'm going to get 569 00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:52,639 Speaker 1: up at six or five point thirty and go for 570 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:54,400 Speaker 1: a walk with a dog or do this or whatever 571 00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:57,359 Speaker 1: it is because it's in my best interest. Because I 572 00:26:57,359 --> 00:26:59,399 Speaker 1: love myself. I want to be the best version of me, 573 00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:01,280 Speaker 1: and I want to have that run with the kids, 574 00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:03,040 Speaker 1: or I want them to look up to me, or 575 00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:05,359 Speaker 1: a want a wife to go, wow, you look fantastic, 576 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:08,040 Speaker 1: Like it doesn't have to be heart angry and sad. 577 00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:11,200 Speaker 1: It could be about celebrating the fact that you really 578 00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:14,639 Speaker 1: want to be your best own champion. So for I 579 00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:16,760 Speaker 1: think a lot of people, if you rephrase it that way, 580 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:19,560 Speaker 1: it reframes it in a manner they can understand, and 581 00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:22,439 Speaker 1: it becomes a little bit more workable than what a 582 00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:24,840 Speaker 1: lot of people are sold on social media about what 583 00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:26,240 Speaker 1: being discipline needs to be. 584 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:30,440 Speaker 3: And I love this because then it's not a chore. Right. 585 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:35,040 Speaker 3: So when people are framing, and this is what often happens, 586 00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:38,480 Speaker 3: whether it's weird, most are getting in cheap and their 587 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:41,200 Speaker 3: goal to do it is that I don't want to die, 588 00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:43,760 Speaker 3: I don't want to get this chronic disease and all 589 00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:46,639 Speaker 3: of this, and it's not it's not the right why, 590 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:51,240 Speaker 3: and then the action becomes a chure. I often talk 591 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:55,040 Speaker 3: about connecting stuff to your values, so you know what 592 00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:57,600 Speaker 3: are your value and I think you're very similar. So 593 00:27:57,640 --> 00:27:59,920 Speaker 3: it's self love and it's linking into values that are 594 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:03,560 Speaker 3: impotant to you at a deep Yeah. 595 00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:05,920 Speaker 1: Absolutely, And if you want to go, if you're looking 596 00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:08,280 Speaker 1: at it from an expedition race, So why am I 597 00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:11,520 Speaker 1: am I connected with myself to achieve those things is 598 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:14,000 Speaker 1: understanding how you got there in the first place. So 599 00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:16,360 Speaker 1: when it comes to like big mountaineering or big races, 600 00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:19,000 Speaker 1: I have a two step model for how I decided 601 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:21,240 Speaker 1: when I'm going to do those things. So let's say 602 00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:22,920 Speaker 1: I see a race like I'd love to go do that. 603 00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:25,720 Speaker 1: The first thing is you can't tell anyone for thirty days. 604 00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:27,480 Speaker 1: Just think about it, and at the end of the 605 00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:30,120 Speaker 1: thirty days, reflect how much did you think about it? 606 00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:32,400 Speaker 1: And if it only popped up once or twice, it's 607 00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:34,840 Speaker 1: not the thing. If you thought about it every day, okay, 608 00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:37,439 Speaker 1: it's a thing. And then the next question is the 609 00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:39,360 Speaker 1: hard one that you have to be really really honest about. 610 00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:41,760 Speaker 1: If you could do it and no one would ever 611 00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:43,960 Speaker 1: know and you can never tell us all, do you 612 00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:46,840 Speaker 1: still want to do it? And you have to You've 613 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:49,680 Speaker 1: got to be honest because then when you go, it's 614 00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:52,200 Speaker 1: for you. So when it's shit and it's you're at 615 00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:55,680 Speaker 1: the bottom of the well, you'll go because you wanted 616 00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:57,760 Speaker 1: to be here and there's no one You're like, I 617 00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:00,680 Speaker 1: put myself here because I wanted this. Well, guess you're 618 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:03,760 Speaker 1: now getting that. So away we go, and if you're 619 00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:06,000 Speaker 1: really honest with yourself, you avoid doing dumb stuff that 620 00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:09,840 Speaker 1: you don't need to do. So I've used that for 621 00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:12,400 Speaker 1: every expeditions. I've been invited to climb every three times, 622 00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:15,240 Speaker 1: and three times I've said no. First question was a yes, 623 00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:17,960 Speaker 1: I thought about it all the time. Second question was 624 00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:21,000 Speaker 1: a no. Why do you want to go? Because when 625 00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:23,959 Speaker 1: I do keynotes and stuff and people ask you, I 626 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:26,400 Speaker 1: wanted to be the guy that said, yes, I climbed it. Well, 627 00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:28,680 Speaker 1: that's a terrible reason to go. That's probably the worst 628 00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:30,560 Speaker 1: reason to go, because when the chips are down, you 629 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,400 Speaker 1: don't have any drive Internally, it's all about seeking validation 630 00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:36,680 Speaker 1: from others, and that will not work. So the answer 631 00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:38,680 Speaker 1: has to be no. You have to say no, sorry, 632 00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:42,120 Speaker 1: I would be doing it for the wrong reasons, and 633 00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:43,920 Speaker 1: the flipper is, of course, wouldn't. 634 00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:45,920 Speaker 3: Just before you dive enery further. This is a little 635 00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:50,560 Speaker 3: bit like the stoic philosophers who they talk about being 636 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:55,920 Speaker 3: good even when nobody is looking right, and it's because 637 00:29:56,040 --> 00:30:00,640 Speaker 3: that internally it's ket intrinsic to actually good and have 638 00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:04,320 Speaker 3: good character, and when no one's looking doing that stuff, 639 00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:05,920 Speaker 3: and that's why I really love that. 640 00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:10,000 Speaker 1: Sorry, So, yeah, Hamberway, because we can go down some 641 00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:12,360 Speaker 1: really interesting rabbit holes and then you can get really 642 00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:16,360 Speaker 1: into that. I mean, I recently read Dr Schwartz's book 643 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:18,120 Speaker 1: The Mind and the Brain. I know we've read that. 644 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:20,120 Speaker 1: It was fascinating. So he was he was a guy's 645 00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:23,200 Speaker 1: treating O c D and then dys lecture, and he 646 00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:25,840 Speaker 1: got deep down the rabbit hole of you know, the 647 00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:27,920 Speaker 1: quantum state of the mind in terms of the fact 648 00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:31,239 Speaker 1: that your thoughts. He was proving that your thoughts can 649 00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:34,480 Speaker 1: actually have physical changes in the brain that he could 650 00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:37,000 Speaker 1: measure through scans. So it really comes to that. 651 00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:41,080 Speaker 3: It's just Jeffery swats Yeah, yeah, yeah from l I 652 00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:44,040 Speaker 3: saw I saw him tap. That's that. I think he 653 00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:46,600 Speaker 3: wrote a book called Brian Locke as well. Yeah, I 654 00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:49,160 Speaker 3: boad all CD because I think he has all CD. Like, 655 00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:53,720 Speaker 3: as he was talking, I'm like, do you you solved 656 00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:54,080 Speaker 3: the rub? 657 00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:57,280 Speaker 1: He did? He did. He was fascinating. His book was fascinating, 658 00:30:57,320 --> 00:30:59,200 Speaker 1: but he was he was really getting down that rabbit 659 00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:01,440 Speaker 1: hole of and look, he got deep into the quantum 660 00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:03,600 Speaker 1: physics and mechanics of it. But the high level is 661 00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:06,040 Speaker 1: this the talk that you have in your brain actually 662 00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:08,800 Speaker 1: will physically change the structures of your brain. So if 663 00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:11,800 Speaker 1: you're having the kind of discussions you want, then you're 664 00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:13,520 Speaker 1: going to get the outcome you want. So for me 665 00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:17,240 Speaker 1: in those races, simple things like any time we came 666 00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:20,280 Speaker 1: past a medic crew or you know, a local, or 667 00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:23,640 Speaker 1: any time anyone asked you how you were, the answer was, 668 00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:28,520 Speaker 1: I'm fantastic. This is great, regardless of how deep in 669 00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:32,280 Speaker 1: the hole you were. The discussion must be positive at 670 00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:35,360 Speaker 1: all times. And it's true, like you've just got to 671 00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:37,600 Speaker 1: keep telling yourself, I've got to be disciplined. You've got 672 00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:39,960 Speaker 1: to put the zips back in the same spot every time, 673 00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:43,000 Speaker 1: because day seven, when you have the IQ of a 674 00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:45,880 Speaker 1: small rock, you need to know that the zips are 675 00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:47,800 Speaker 1: there because that's as far as you can get. So 676 00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:50,200 Speaker 1: every time I do that and force yourself, and every 677 00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:52,840 Speaker 1: time you force yourself to eat, I'm doing this for 678 00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:54,840 Speaker 1: future me. Future means is going to go. Thank god 679 00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:57,360 Speaker 1: that guy kept subtling calories in even when he was 680 00:31:57,400 --> 00:31:59,800 Speaker 1: frozen in his hands didn't work. Thank god he put 681 00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:02,200 Speaker 1: this in the spot because now we're at a blizzard 682 00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:04,400 Speaker 1: and we're freezing. When you the bivvy out, I don't 683 00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:06,320 Speaker 1: have time to figure out where you left the zip 684 00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:08,959 Speaker 1: last time, Like you've got to have that discipline because 685 00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:11,800 Speaker 1: you are pre paying it for yourself later to come 686 00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:14,720 Speaker 1: back and go, thank God yesterday me did that because 687 00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:18,280 Speaker 1: I'm loving him now. So it's just there's a whole 688 00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:20,040 Speaker 1: bunch of tool kits. You can put little things you 689 00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:22,040 Speaker 1: can put in the toolkit and you pick them and 690 00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:24,880 Speaker 1: you use them and they stack. There's no one big 691 00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:27,440 Speaker 1: ticket item. It's a million little ones and you stack 692 00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:29,760 Speaker 1: them up and they all start coming to play when 693 00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:30,360 Speaker 1: you need them. 694 00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:32,560 Speaker 3: There's two things I wanted to talk about there, and 695 00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:35,400 Speaker 3: one with you seeing when people ask you how are 696 00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:38,280 Speaker 3: you feeling, it's going to be fantastic. This I think 697 00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:43,080 Speaker 3: is something everyday life right. And I've been telling my 698 00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:46,000 Speaker 3: kids this is that when people say to you, you know, 699 00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:47,920 Speaker 3: how are you doing, a lot of people go oh good, 700 00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:52,760 Speaker 3: I oh tired. It's like I remember made the mind 701 00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:56,280 Speaker 3: Jeremy who said this crazy professor who actually hired me 702 00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:58,840 Speaker 3: at usf Wels guy. The first time I met him, 703 00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:00,960 Speaker 3: I said, oh, Jeremy, hey you do and he says. 704 00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:03,280 Speaker 1: I'm fabulous, and I was here we go. 705 00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:08,960 Speaker 3: That's fucking awes like this guy, right, yeah, yeah, and 706 00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:12,560 Speaker 3: just that you know, it's like, I'm fucking awesome, right, 707 00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:16,000 Speaker 3: It's it's it's so much better than the kookie cutter. 708 00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:19,360 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I'm good. Or you start to complain, which 709 00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:23,680 Speaker 3: is even friggin worse because your brain is going to 710 00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:26,440 Speaker 3: commit sales to whatever you're paying attention to, and your 711 00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:30,040 Speaker 3: thoughts as you say that, repetitive stuff. So that that's 712 00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:33,200 Speaker 3: something that's really interesting. Right, even when you were in 713 00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:37,640 Speaker 3: this ship storm and feeling awful, you're still going, I'm 714 00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:40,640 Speaker 3: fucking awesome. I'm awesome. So that that's that's one thing 715 00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:44,360 Speaker 3: and the other one and this is a this is 716 00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:46,520 Speaker 3: a little rabbit hope we can go down. You talked 717 00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:52,080 Speaker 3: about future me right, really interesting research from hal Hirshfield. 718 00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:54,280 Speaker 3: And I don't know whether this is where you got 719 00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:56,479 Speaker 3: it from, where you just came up with this by yourself, 720 00:33:56,480 --> 00:34:01,400 Speaker 3: but he was a a psychologist who was looking at 721 00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:04,960 Speaker 3: human behavior and took a bunch of people in the 722 00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:08,759 Speaker 3: States who had their first job and they had to 723 00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:12,840 Speaker 3: fill out the four to one nine K, which is 724 00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:16,880 Speaker 3: where they commit part of their savings or not to 725 00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:20,640 Speaker 3: their version of superannuation. Right, So it's voluntary over there, 726 00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:26,120 Speaker 3: unlike mandatory here. And what he did was everybody went 727 00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:30,000 Speaker 3: through that scenario but had to wear virtual reality reality goggles, 728 00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:35,360 Speaker 3: and they saw themselves actually going up to the counter 729 00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:38,440 Speaker 3: to fill out the form. Half of them saw themselves 730 00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:41,719 Speaker 3: through the goggles as a hologram of them right now, 731 00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:45,239 Speaker 3: and half of them saw themselves as a hologram of 732 00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:49,719 Speaker 3: them at retirement age. And the people who saw themselves 733 00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:53,400 Speaker 3: at retirement dage committed more than double the amount to 734 00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:57,480 Speaker 3: their savings of the people who actually saw them as themselves. 735 00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:00,919 Speaker 3: And it was that whole idea of a udgining your 736 00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:05,600 Speaker 3: future self and doing good for your future self. So 737 00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:09,040 Speaker 3: that was really interesting that you talked about doing the 738 00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:12,759 Speaker 3: zeps and eating for future me. Where did you come 739 00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:14,719 Speaker 3: up with that concept and just dig into it. 740 00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:17,279 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a bit of both. I partially came up 741 00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:19,120 Speaker 1: with it through training for ultra marathons, and part of 742 00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:21,759 Speaker 1: it I completely stole from someone else. So the ultra 743 00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:23,960 Speaker 1: marathon stuff is I look at training as a pre 744 00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:27,360 Speaker 1: payment of hurt for future events. The more hurting I 745 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:30,680 Speaker 1: get done in training turn up to the events, I've 746 00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:33,120 Speaker 1: already pre paid the pain. Thanks, and I paid earlier, 747 00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:36,040 Speaker 1: so I've only got a little bite. 748 00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:37,040 Speaker 3: And hard and hard competing. 749 00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:39,719 Speaker 1: Yeah, you can only fight like your train mate. So 750 00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:41,759 Speaker 1: for me, I'm out running and I'm pre paying so 751 00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:44,040 Speaker 1: much stuff here. This will be great future. But it's 752 00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:45,920 Speaker 1: gonna be really happy. And then I heard it and 753 00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:48,800 Speaker 1: I it was on. It was Chris Willimson's pot and 754 00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:51,239 Speaker 1: I can't remember who was interviewing, might have even been 755 00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:54,040 Speaker 1: Jimmy Carr. Just you know, do something today that future 756 00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:57,239 Speaker 1: you will thank you for. So tomorrow you will wake 757 00:35:57,320 --> 00:35:59,880 Speaker 1: up and go, I'm so glad he went to bed early. 758 00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:02,440 Speaker 1: I'm so glad he didn't eat that, or I'm so 759 00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:04,760 Speaker 1: glad that he got that job done that we've avoided 760 00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:07,360 Speaker 1: for ages. So just that idea of do something today 761 00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:10,239 Speaker 1: that future you is going to thank you for. You 762 00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:12,719 Speaker 1: just stack them. You just keeps stacking those things up, 763 00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:15,359 Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, every day you waken up 764 00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:17,680 Speaker 1: going we're ahead, We're already ahead. I haven't ever done 765 00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:20,319 Speaker 1: anything yet and I'm ahead, And it becomes a very 766 00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:23,800 Speaker 1: different mental discussion. And that going back to that mental 767 00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:26,160 Speaker 1: discussion of saying you're fabulous and what have you. The 768 00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:28,080 Speaker 1: other advantage of that is it becomes a weapon that 769 00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:31,120 Speaker 1: you can use if you're a competitive athlete. So I 770 00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:33,000 Speaker 1: had a case in one of those races where I 771 00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:35,880 Speaker 1: had caught the lead bunch and I looked at the 772 00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:38,719 Speaker 1: guy in front of me, and his harness was just 773 00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:41,840 Speaker 1: slightly off. And we the sleds that we use that 774 00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:44,480 Speaker 1: we have clips that hold the sled bag in place. 775 00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:47,520 Speaker 1: One of his was undone and just trailing behind the sled, 776 00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:50,000 Speaker 1: and I looked at it when I'd never accept that 777 00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:54,400 Speaker 1: that's undisciplined. He's tired, right, that's a different discussion. So 778 00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:56,560 Speaker 1: now I know that when I catch up to him 779 00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:58,759 Speaker 1: and speed and look him by to eye, I am 780 00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:01,080 Speaker 1: going to put on an absolutely show of how good 781 00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:03,880 Speaker 1: I feel because and you'll believe it because you've been 782 00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:05,480 Speaker 1: saying it to yourself the whole way. You'd have to 783 00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:07,800 Speaker 1: make it up. But now you can actually use it 784 00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:10,520 Speaker 1: as a tool on the offensive. And this guy's gonna 785 00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:15,279 Speaker 1: be going crap. He looks great, and he's all it's 786 00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:17,080 Speaker 1: a tool in the toolkit that you can use to 787 00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:20,520 Speaker 1: bolster yourself proactively, or you can use offensively if you're 788 00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:23,759 Speaker 1: competitive to go, we can use this. Our competitors see 789 00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:28,000 Speaker 1: nothing but cohesive discipline. From the outside, regardless of what's 790 00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:31,280 Speaker 1: happening under the water, all they see is that cohesive 791 00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:35,400 Speaker 1: discipline and it just it annihilates them. It leaves you 792 00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:39,520 Speaker 1: streaks ahead. So it really is that mental discussion and 793 00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:43,680 Speaker 1: then reframing some of that hard stuff as this, you're 794 00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:46,600 Speaker 1: going to be really happy about this tomorrow, and in fact, 795 00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:48,879 Speaker 1: if you do even more, you're going to be even 796 00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:51,960 Speaker 1: happier tomorrow. Happy do you want to be tomorrow? Let's 797 00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:53,520 Speaker 1: just stack it up and we'll go from there. 798 00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:58,839 Speaker 3: And do you tend to bring that mindset into your 799 00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:02,360 Speaker 3: personal life no as well? Or do you just bring 800 00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:07,560 Speaker 3: that out as a really sharp to use when you 801 00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:08,520 Speaker 3: need it the most. 802 00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:10,880 Speaker 1: I think if you're serious about it, you can't separate 803 00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:13,080 Speaker 1: the two, and I don't think you should. I think 804 00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:16,759 Speaker 1: you either that's your philosophy of how you operate or 805 00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:19,120 Speaker 1: it's not. Because it's not the kind of thing you 806 00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:22,160 Speaker 1: can just flick on and off. It's a continue that 807 00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:25,319 Speaker 1: you will turn the dial up or down. But if 808 00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:27,799 Speaker 1: you're serious about it, if you really practiced it and 809 00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:31,600 Speaker 1: embedded it, you can't turn it off. You can put 810 00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:33,920 Speaker 1: it down to one. And sometimes you've got to turn 811 00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:37,400 Speaker 1: it to eleven. But it's not something you just go, oh, 812 00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:40,600 Speaker 1: I'll be disciplined when I need to. That's not that's 813 00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:43,239 Speaker 1: not how that works, as you would well know, Like 814 00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:46,680 Speaker 1: it's it's either how you operate or it's not so 815 00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:47,800 Speaker 1: for me, I try. 816 00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:50,080 Speaker 3: And mold to supperround that exactly. 817 00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:53,279 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's how you operate. And that's if it's 818 00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:56,680 Speaker 1: such an effective tool for the times that are difficult, 819 00:38:56,960 --> 00:39:00,720 Speaker 1: why wouldn't you embed it all the time the easier 820 00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:05,359 Speaker 1: times easier? Like it's the you know, that's the tie 821 00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:08,160 Speaker 1: that rises all boats. Like it's the tool you bring 822 00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:11,200 Speaker 1: to every job. So why wouldn't you have it operating 823 00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:13,920 Speaker 1: all the time and just adjust the die Like you know, 824 00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:16,120 Speaker 1: if you're having fun with your kids, in your home, 825 00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:18,239 Speaker 1: with your wife, whatever, you probably don't need to go 826 00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:22,040 Speaker 1: full discipline mantra. But you can still be aware that 827 00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:25,120 Speaker 1: my kids watch me every day and they see how 828 00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:29,240 Speaker 1: I talk to myself, to them, to my wife. Dad's 829 00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:31,279 Speaker 1: getting sweaty on the bike again because he does it 830 00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:33,600 Speaker 1: every day. So my kids will come out and they'll 831 00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:36,319 Speaker 1: hang off the they'll throw a kettlebell around, or they'll 832 00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:38,520 Speaker 1: hang off the bike or they'll do whatever, and I 833 00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:41,719 Speaker 1: don't mind that, but they go, oh, it's normal that 834 00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:45,120 Speaker 1: we do something hard and sweaty every day. That's normal. 835 00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:48,520 Speaker 1: And if we're frustrated, we go outside into the sun. 836 00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:51,200 Speaker 1: Dad does that every day when he gets getting blowy top. 837 00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:54,120 Speaker 1: He goes outside with a cuppa and yells at the 838 00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:56,440 Speaker 1: dog or something because oh, okay, so if I'm feeling 839 00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:59,880 Speaker 1: that way, I go outside. Yeah, that's that's what we do. Okay, 840 00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:01,319 Speaker 1: So they pick it up. 841 00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:03,960 Speaker 3: Our kids don't do some what's what we say. They 842 00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:05,440 Speaker 3: do what they do, what we. 843 00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:07,879 Speaker 1: Do, and they see everything, they miss nothing at. 844 00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:11,600 Speaker 3: All, that's right. Yeah. So all the people, all the 845 00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:17,040 Speaker 3: parents who are concerned about their kids being lazy and 846 00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:21,920 Speaker 3: undisciplined and mental health issues, is like, examine your own behaviors. 847 00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:26,520 Speaker 3: Examine your own behaviors around around exercise, around nutrition, around 848 00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:30,000 Speaker 3: screen time, around your sleep paging, because as you say, 849 00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:33,240 Speaker 3: they peck everything up everything normally. 850 00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:35,319 Speaker 1: Whatever you tell your kids it is normally is whatever 851 00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:38,120 Speaker 1: they say. And if they think, well, normally is you know, 852 00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:40,239 Speaker 1: we don't sit at the dinner table every night. We 853 00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:41,800 Speaker 1: see on the couch and we need this, that or 854 00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:43,160 Speaker 1: the other, and we've got the TV on it, what 855 00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:47,399 Speaker 1: have you. That's not our kids normally is family dinner 856 00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:49,640 Speaker 1: seven nights a week at a table, no devices, no 857 00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:52,400 Speaker 1: screens and anything. That's normal. That's just what we do. 858 00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:55,080 Speaker 1: That's that's how we act and how we operate. They 859 00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:57,520 Speaker 1: don't miss anything in that regard. I had another point 860 00:40:57,560 --> 00:40:59,480 Speaker 1: and it's disappeared from them. But yeah, that was that 861 00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:00,319 Speaker 1: was really sorry. 862 00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:05,359 Speaker 3: Let's talk about a word that we both love, anti fragility. 863 00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:07,400 Speaker 1: We just warm up. 864 00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:12,279 Speaker 3: I'd tell you what I'd tell you. That is the 865 00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:17,479 Speaker 3: word that I wish that I had come up with, antichid. Yeah, 866 00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:23,919 Speaker 3: you're so talk us through your view of anti fragility? 867 00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:27,200 Speaker 3: Is it in need? Is it learned? You know what? 868 00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:28,000 Speaker 1: Is it hard? 869 00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:31,040 Speaker 3: Does it extend into life? Just just give give us, 870 00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:35,640 Speaker 3: give us that that Paul Watkins rant free reign on 871 00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:39,719 Speaker 3: anti fragility that the guard reels are off right. 872 00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:43,320 Speaker 1: So welcome to Peter's five hour podcast on any fragility. 873 00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:47,920 Speaker 1: Prepare yourself. Let's go. So let's I like to use 874 00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:49,680 Speaker 1: an example that people can wrap their heads around, because 875 00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:51,560 Speaker 1: it's a weird concept for some people, they can't get it. 876 00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:53,480 Speaker 1: So let's not talk about any fragility for a sec 877 00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:55,520 Speaker 1: and let's talk about Let me give you a model, 878 00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:59,160 Speaker 1: So let's think about health. Okay, So imagine a continuum 879 00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:01,680 Speaker 1: from left to right. So one end we've got sick, 880 00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:04,640 Speaker 1: and in the middle we've got well, and on the 881 00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:08,040 Speaker 1: other end of the spectrum we've got fit. So we 882 00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:10,880 Speaker 1: go from sick to well to fit. And you can 883 00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:13,960 Speaker 1: map on that continuum any number of biomarkers, you know, 884 00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:16,800 Speaker 1: blood pressure, resting, heart rate, cholesterol, whatever you want to 885 00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:21,279 Speaker 1: put on there. Now, if I'm fit, for me to 886 00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:25,000 Speaker 1: get sick, I have to go through well, if that 887 00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:27,839 Speaker 1: makes sense, I have to almost degrade to being well 888 00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:30,959 Speaker 1: before I can gets sick. If I'm just well, only 889 00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:34,480 Speaker 1: one step away from being sick. So you want to 890 00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:36,279 Speaker 1: be as far up that continue of this end to 891 00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:38,839 Speaker 1: give you a buffer in the middle. So let's keep 892 00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:41,040 Speaker 1: that continuum and change the words on it. On the 893 00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:44,680 Speaker 1: left is fragile. If I drop you, you break. In 894 00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:47,759 Speaker 1: the middle, I put resilient. If I drop you, you 895 00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:50,799 Speaker 1: won't break, You'll just be okay, you won't move up 896 00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:55,120 Speaker 1: or down. You'll retain the integrity you had before. But 897 00:42:55,239 --> 00:42:58,240 Speaker 1: that's not the opposite of fragile. The opposite of fragile 898 00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:00,959 Speaker 1: is I drop you and not only do you not break, 899 00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:05,759 Speaker 1: you actually get stronger because of the experience. And so 900 00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:07,200 Speaker 1: that's where I want to be. I want to be. 901 00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:08,839 Speaker 1: How do I get in that cohort of people who 902 00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:12,200 Speaker 1: the harder it gets, the better they get. And most 903 00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:14,920 Speaker 1: people have that buffer for them to be fragile, I 904 00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:16,440 Speaker 1: have to go all the way through being resilient and 905 00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:18,920 Speaker 1: get all the way back. So my argument is that 906 00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:22,960 Speaker 1: resilience is really important, but it's leaving an enormous amount 907 00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:26,600 Speaker 1: of money on the table. We've missed the entire upside 908 00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:30,440 Speaker 1: of the discussion of it's not enough to survive. You 909 00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:33,040 Speaker 1: want to be thriving, because if you're resilient, you're only 910 00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:35,920 Speaker 1: one step away from being fragile. And it's a continuum 911 00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:38,239 Speaker 1: because you move. And that's okay. There will be times 912 00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:40,760 Speaker 1: when you're anti fragile and times when you're just resilient, 913 00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:42,360 Speaker 1: and times will we're fragile, and that's part of the 914 00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:45,560 Speaker 1: human condition. That's okay. But if you're continuum only goes 915 00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:48,520 Speaker 1: from fragile to resilient, you've cut off half of the 916 00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:51,560 Speaker 1: opportunity for who you could be and what you're capable of, 917 00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:55,200 Speaker 1: And the discussion is very different. If I'm having a 918 00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:59,480 Speaker 1: discussion with PT about being resilient and I'm capping it 919 00:43:59,840 --> 00:44:03,759 Speaker 1: you can survive this, versus having a discussion about what 920 00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:07,120 Speaker 1: is the toolkit, what does the mental and behavioral models 921 00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:11,080 Speaker 1: look like that you will thrive in hard environments. That's 922 00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:14,200 Speaker 1: a whole different discussion. And then you start having a 923 00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:16,960 Speaker 1: whole different discussion in your head about what am I 924 00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:20,520 Speaker 1: capable of? What's at the other end of that spectrum 925 00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:22,880 Speaker 1: that I haven't even considered yet that I need to 926 00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:26,160 Speaker 1: open myself up to. So that's where I like Andy fragility. 927 00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:29,919 Speaker 1: It really takes us away from this just the well 928 00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:33,080 Speaker 1: being and resilient conversation to the no, no, no, no no. 929 00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:36,040 Speaker 1: There's a whole other end of the spectrum here. So 930 00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:40,040 Speaker 1: the discussion isn't I phrase it this way. The uncomfortable 931 00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:42,960 Speaker 1: conversation that people won't have is people don't want their 932 00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:45,840 Speaker 1: lives to be easier. They actually just want to be stronger. 933 00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:48,640 Speaker 1: That's what they really want. But will you spend a 934 00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:50,960 Speaker 1: lot of time going I wish this was easier, or 935 00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:53,080 Speaker 1: in a corporate environment, how do we make it easier 936 00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:55,360 Speaker 1: for PT? How do we make his job easier. He 937 00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:58,040 Speaker 1: doesn't want it to be easier. He wants to be stronger. 938 00:44:58,080 --> 00:44:59,880 Speaker 1: He wants to be better at it. And if you 939 00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:04,120 Speaker 1: have that conversation with him, now we're having an entirely 940 00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:07,719 Speaker 1: different model, an entirely different framework and discussion around that, 941 00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:10,960 Speaker 1: And suddenly PT is not going. I got better at 942 00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:13,239 Speaker 1: it because they made it easier and they lowered the bar. 943 00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:15,680 Speaker 1: I got better at it because I'm better at it. 944 00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:18,239 Speaker 1: So give me some more. Let's go, let's see what 945 00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:20,360 Speaker 1: I can do next. So for me, I think it 946 00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:24,040 Speaker 1: just opens up this massive conversation about where we go 947 00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:25,840 Speaker 1: beyond resilience. 948 00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:33,680 Speaker 3: That's yeah, no, no, basically yeah, Now admit you are. 949 00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:36,520 Speaker 3: I'm going to give you a new nickname. You are 950 00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:37,919 Speaker 3: the harmatic cure. 951 00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:40,480 Speaker 1: Does that make me stupid? 952 00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:45,200 Speaker 3: Not not at all? So hor me say so, are 953 00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:48,680 Speaker 3: you familiar with the science of me that sub lethal 954 00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:52,080 Speaker 3: exposure to stressors or toxins, which at very at high 955 00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:55,200 Speaker 3: levels can kill you, but at low to moderate levels 956 00:45:55,239 --> 00:45:57,759 Speaker 3: induce stress resistance. And this is what we're talking about, right, 957 00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:01,680 Speaker 3: aren't The fragility is stress resistance. It's and I like 958 00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:03,840 Speaker 3: to talk to people like the athlete doesn't go and 959 00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:07,080 Speaker 3: trainin to stay the same or to bounce back and 960 00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:09,960 Speaker 3: be the same. They trained to get bigger, faster, stronger, 961 00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:15,160 Speaker 3: and that's that, that's that stress adaptation that anti fragility 962 00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:20,360 Speaker 3: really encapulates. And I mean we are in violent agreement 963 00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:25,880 Speaker 3: on this. I think resilience should not be the end game. 964 00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:30,360 Speaker 3: The end game should be anti fragility, stress adaptation, or 965 00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:34,520 Speaker 3: meat harmetic response, whatever, whatever terminology you want to use. 966 00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:38,719 Speaker 3: Post traumatic growth, Yeah, yeah, absolutely, there is a lot 967 00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:42,320 Speaker 3: of literature out there about post traumatic growth, but everybody 968 00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:44,560 Speaker 3: talks about post traumatic stress to sort of. But I 969 00:46:44,680 --> 00:46:48,040 Speaker 3: think the critical thing for people, and you know, we've 970 00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:51,200 Speaker 3: talked about it a lot, is your mindset when you're 971 00:46:51,239 --> 00:46:54,799 Speaker 3: going into it right, and that you know that comes 972 00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:59,040 Speaker 3: out of the hardiness research about viewing things as challenges 973 00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:03,240 Speaker 3: rather than read and loss and looking for the opportunity 974 00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:09,040 Speaker 3: for growth and actually leaning into discomfort. It's so well 975 00:47:09,080 --> 00:47:11,840 Speaker 3: summed up, and you are the kind of walking poster 976 00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:15,880 Speaker 3: boy for this. But Epictetus said we must all undergo 977 00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:19,759 Speaker 3: a hard winter training and not enter into lightly that 978 00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:23,040 Speaker 3: for which we have not prepared, and he was talking 979 00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:23,560 Speaker 3: about life. 980 00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:25,759 Speaker 1: I remind myself that I'm running the rind Any in 981 00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:29,480 Speaker 1: the Southwest Coast. Two degrees of Advice. Yes, Epytus would be. 982 00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:34,040 Speaker 3: Proud of me. Okay, Bunny, absolutely. But and as you 983 00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:37,839 Speaker 3: say you're investing in your future, you're prepaying the heart. 984 00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:42,640 Speaker 3: But that I think what a lot of people don't realize, 985 00:47:43,120 --> 00:47:45,040 Speaker 3: and this is the thing I've been thinking a moment more, 986 00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:48,520 Speaker 3: is that it's a combination of two things to get 987 00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:52,279 Speaker 3: to a point of anti fragility, which is where we 988 00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:56,600 Speaker 3: should all be. Is it's a combination of a mindset 989 00:47:57,080 --> 00:48:00,239 Speaker 3: and all the stuff that you talked about, but it's 990 00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:05,160 Speaker 3: also about knowing that you can achieve that stuff, and 991 00:48:05,280 --> 00:48:08,560 Speaker 3: in order to do that, you have to do hard stuff. 992 00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:13,600 Speaker 3: This is where I believe and I think you'll be 993 00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:18,000 Speaker 3: connected with this, is that so many parents are fucking 994 00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:21,759 Speaker 3: up their kids' lives because they're helicopter parent in them. 995 00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:25,879 Speaker 3: They're trying to save them, they're rescuing them from discomfort. 996 00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:29,880 Speaker 3: And you do not grow in the absence of stress. 997 00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:34,080 Speaker 3: That is not an environment for personal growth. You know, 998 00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:37,520 Speaker 3: if people think about the stuff that they're really proud of, 999 00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:40,400 Speaker 3: it's stuff that is freaking difficult, that's hard, that we 1000 00:48:40,560 --> 00:48:41,480 Speaker 3: overcome that's the. 1001 00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:43,720 Speaker 1: Best chapters in your story, and we should. I always 1002 00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:46,440 Speaker 1: try and point out from talking to parents, like you 1003 00:48:46,520 --> 00:48:50,520 Speaker 1: know asterix On that to do parenting well, it's freaking hard, 1004 00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:55,759 Speaker 1: Like it is really really hard. So trick yourself, guy. 1005 00:48:56,080 --> 00:48:56,200 Speaker 3: Ah. 1006 00:48:56,320 --> 00:48:58,840 Speaker 1: The parents that have you got screen time, ountder control 1007 00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:01,520 Speaker 1: and got their kids well behaved, all that kind of stuff. 1008 00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:05,560 Speaker 1: The lucky Yeah, how do you get you behave like that? 1009 00:49:06,320 --> 00:49:09,440 Speaker 1: I can tell you how relentless parenting like that's what 1010 00:49:09,560 --> 00:49:13,160 Speaker 1: I do. It's freaking hard and it's soul crushing some days, 1011 00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:16,080 Speaker 1: but that's your job, like you owe it to them 1012 00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:19,440 Speaker 1: to put in that effort. So put in that effort. 1013 00:49:19,520 --> 00:49:23,120 Speaker 1: And it is really difficult, and it's saying no a lot, 1014 00:49:23,560 --> 00:49:26,640 Speaker 1: and it's being not liked a lot, like I say that. 1015 00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:28,719 Speaker 1: You know, my oldest, my job isn't to be your 1016 00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:30,959 Speaker 1: best friend like some days, it's to be your worst enemy. 1017 00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:31,200 Speaker 3: Mate. 1018 00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:35,520 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, but the answer is no. Do it all, 1019 00:49:35,560 --> 00:49:39,000 Speaker 1: my well, youngest, I'm bored, Dad, good, what am I 1020 00:49:39,040 --> 00:49:42,160 Speaker 1: going to do? Figure it out? Mate? You've got a 1021 00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:44,680 Speaker 1: room for the toys. If we live on five acres, 1022 00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:46,600 Speaker 1: go talk to the sheep. I don't know, I mate, 1023 00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:49,880 Speaker 1: Go figure it out. I'm busy, Well, I'm being bored. 1024 00:49:50,239 --> 00:49:50,400 Speaker 2: You know. 1025 00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:54,799 Speaker 3: It's like that, that is that is the exact response. 1026 00:49:54,400 --> 00:50:00,239 Speaker 1: That congratulations, Now go away, go. 1027 00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:01,960 Speaker 3: And get curious. 1028 00:50:02,200 --> 00:50:03,759 Speaker 1: Right, That's the thing. 1029 00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:08,880 Speaker 3: But also, and I love that concept of relentless parenting 1030 00:50:09,160 --> 00:50:13,520 Speaker 3: because it is frigging hard to reis will. And I 1031 00:50:13,640 --> 00:50:16,480 Speaker 3: think it's harder than it used to be because there 1032 00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:22,759 Speaker 3: are yeah, there are so many more challenges, you know. 1033 00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:26,160 Speaker 3: I also say, and every parental say, jeez, life is 1034 00:50:26,200 --> 00:50:28,480 Speaker 3: so much harder when we were growing up, right, And 1035 00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:30,880 Speaker 3: it was in a sense because we all had to 1036 00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:34,640 Speaker 3: walk thirteen miles the school, yeah, through snow, yeah and burfoot. 1037 00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:40,719 Speaker 3: But we never had all of these temptations, right, We 1038 00:50:40,920 --> 00:50:44,040 Speaker 3: never had all of this ultra process food that just 1039 00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:47,120 Speaker 3: hijacks kids' brains and once they've had it, that's all 1040 00:50:47,200 --> 00:50:50,719 Speaker 3: they want, like drug addicts. We never had the whole 1041 00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:55,000 Speaker 3: social media stuff, the video games that are just unbelievable 1042 00:50:55,040 --> 00:50:58,680 Speaker 3: that once a kid does those, they don't want anything else. Like, 1043 00:50:58,800 --> 00:51:01,000 Speaker 3: we never had that stuff. Our parents never had to 1044 00:51:01,160 --> 00:51:03,839 Speaker 3: deal with that, And that's why I think you're right. 1045 00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:06,800 Speaker 3: We have to be the relentless pont to. And I 1046 00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:10,160 Speaker 3: always say that you're not their friend, you're that parent. 1047 00:51:10,280 --> 00:51:13,719 Speaker 3: And I think that's an issue. That are an error 1048 00:51:13,800 --> 00:51:15,319 Speaker 3: that a lot met and it's hard. 1049 00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:16,880 Speaker 1: You've got to respect that. Like you said, with all 1050 00:51:16,880 --> 00:51:18,520 Speaker 1: the video games and social media and all that kind 1051 00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:21,520 Speaker 1: of stuff that's nefariously stacked against you. That's not just oh, 1052 00:51:21,640 --> 00:51:24,160 Speaker 1: it's something in the environment that we've got to deal with. No, 1053 00:51:24,320 --> 00:51:27,640 Speaker 1: that's that's targeting people and a lot of the kids 1054 00:51:28,080 --> 00:51:29,960 Speaker 1: to pull them down the rabbit hole. Like it's actually 1055 00:51:30,120 --> 00:51:32,000 Speaker 1: working against you. So you need to be active. Like 1056 00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:34,520 Speaker 1: our kids wanted to get on YouTube, so we will 1057 00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:36,520 Speaker 1: do YouTube. Kids will have a look at that. You 1058 00:51:36,640 --> 00:51:38,800 Speaker 1: think that'd be fine. And I look at it and 1059 00:51:38,880 --> 00:51:40,640 Speaker 1: I'm watching the kids watching it with the kids, and 1060 00:51:40,760 --> 00:51:44,160 Speaker 1: it was chock full of ads and they're all food 1061 00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:47,439 Speaker 1: ads and the food was horrendous. I'm like, we're done. 1062 00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:49,960 Speaker 1: And the games it was promoting, We're out. We're done. 1063 00:51:50,800 --> 00:51:54,720 Speaker 1: Nahe like, it's just I'm sorry, that is not healthy 1064 00:51:54,800 --> 00:51:58,320 Speaker 1: for you. And I always argue that we're not. I 1065 00:51:58,400 --> 00:52:00,759 Speaker 1: guess we're not depriving our kids of social media. Okay, 1066 00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:03,120 Speaker 1: kids have screen time because I need them to learn 1067 00:52:03,200 --> 00:52:06,560 Speaker 1: how to self regulate on social media and on technology 1068 00:52:06,600 --> 00:52:09,120 Speaker 1: because that is the world they live in. See the 1069 00:52:09,160 --> 00:52:10,560 Speaker 1: world as it is, not how you want it to be. 1070 00:52:10,719 --> 00:52:12,799 Speaker 1: My kids will grow up with technology in social media, 1071 00:52:13,080 --> 00:52:14,759 Speaker 1: so my job as a parent is to teach them 1072 00:52:14,800 --> 00:52:18,279 Speaker 1: how to self regulate in that environment, and we have 1073 00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:20,120 Speaker 1: to expose them to that, but do it in a 1074 00:52:20,239 --> 00:52:24,200 Speaker 1: manner where they understand, where when they get frustrated, Hey, mate, 1075 00:52:24,320 --> 00:52:26,400 Speaker 1: you're looking a bit angry about that game. What do 1076 00:52:26,440 --> 00:52:27,640 Speaker 1: we do when we feel like is it making you 1077 00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:28,200 Speaker 1: feel good? 1078 00:52:28,560 --> 00:52:28,600 Speaker 3: No? 1079 00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:31,440 Speaker 1: Dad? So what do we do? We turn it off 1080 00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:33,880 Speaker 1: on a guy outside and yell at the dog. Okay, well, 1081 00:52:33,920 --> 00:52:36,960 Speaker 1: let's go outside and yell at dog. You needed to 1082 00:52:37,040 --> 00:52:39,319 Speaker 1: kind of have You've got to have those discussions, let 1083 00:52:39,400 --> 00:52:41,160 Speaker 1: them get to that point and then work through it 1084 00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:43,480 Speaker 1: with them and go, okay, what are your strategies? Mate? 1085 00:52:43,520 --> 00:52:44,759 Speaker 1: What do we do and we don't feel is it 1086 00:52:44,800 --> 00:52:48,200 Speaker 1: making it feel good? No? Turn it off and then 1087 00:52:48,280 --> 00:52:49,759 Speaker 1: it's gone. Oh I can turn it off down and 1088 00:52:49,800 --> 00:52:53,680 Speaker 1: walk away. Yeah, you're in charge, mate, But that's parenting. 1089 00:52:53,800 --> 00:52:55,120 Speaker 1: You've got to be there to do that. 1090 00:52:55,360 --> 00:52:59,239 Speaker 3: One hundred percent. I mean I've had something very very 1091 00:52:59,320 --> 00:53:02,600 Speaker 3: similar recently with Oscar being on his video game because 1092 00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:04,600 Speaker 3: we were eight and he was on for heaps of 1093 00:53:04,719 --> 00:53:07,120 Speaker 3: time and we came home and he was just in 1094 00:53:07,239 --> 00:53:10,000 Speaker 3: a shitty mood. He was grumpy, and then he realized 1095 00:53:10,040 --> 00:53:12,759 Speaker 3: that it was being on the screen right, and we 1096 00:53:12,880 --> 00:53:17,440 Speaker 3: had that exact conversation. Let's come back to the stuff 1097 00:53:17,440 --> 00:53:20,160 Speaker 3: that you've been going through, so talk us through the 1098 00:53:20,440 --> 00:53:22,040 Speaker 3: third man effect. 1099 00:53:22,640 --> 00:53:25,400 Speaker 1: This is terrify. So I did not know what this 1100 00:53:25,600 --> 00:53:28,120 Speaker 1: was until two weeks ago and my wife sent me 1101 00:53:28,239 --> 00:53:30,200 Speaker 1: this article about the third man effect and she's like, 1102 00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:33,400 Speaker 1: that's what happened to you last year. Oh so how 1103 00:53:33,440 --> 00:53:35,600 Speaker 1: to read this? So I'll tell you what happened and 1104 00:53:35,680 --> 00:53:37,800 Speaker 1: I'll explain the third man effect. So this was in 1105 00:53:37,920 --> 00:53:40,520 Speaker 1: this race in Sweden in March last year. So up 1106 00:53:40,520 --> 00:53:44,000 Speaker 1: in the lap landing Arctic, I got to about four 1107 00:53:44,080 --> 00:53:46,480 Speaker 1: or five days in super sleept a proble. We're way 1108 00:53:46,520 --> 00:53:50,239 Speaker 1: past hallucinations. Like I know, as when I do these races, 1109 00:53:50,320 --> 00:53:52,400 Speaker 1: part of me, the scientist's brain, part of me loves 1110 00:53:52,960 --> 00:53:56,320 Speaker 1: watching my body devolve as it goes through the experience. 1111 00:53:56,680 --> 00:53:59,520 Speaker 1: So I know, night one you're going to hear stuff. 1112 00:53:59,560 --> 00:54:02,800 Speaker 1: It's not night two. Here come the visuals, the lights. 1113 00:54:02,840 --> 00:54:04,799 Speaker 1: You see some weird things. We know they're not real. 1114 00:54:05,239 --> 00:54:09,000 Speaker 1: Night three. Everything's real. It doesn't matter. There's a dragon, giraffe, 1115 00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:11,360 Speaker 1: people are trying to kill me like you name it, 1116 00:54:11,440 --> 00:54:14,920 Speaker 1: it's all happening. I got you about day five, and 1117 00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:16,640 Speaker 1: I was really pushing her because I was trying to 1118 00:54:16,680 --> 00:54:18,840 Speaker 1: get up from the field and trying to survive. The 1119 00:54:18,920 --> 00:54:22,880 Speaker 1: conditions were horrendous, and I remember one night having this 1120 00:54:23,160 --> 00:54:26,160 Speaker 1: overwhelming belief that there was a lady behind me. I 1121 00:54:26,200 --> 00:54:30,279 Speaker 1: couldn't see her, but I knew she was there. I 1122 00:54:30,360 --> 00:54:33,040 Speaker 1: felt quite calm about it, like I wasn't worried, you know. 1123 00:54:33,120 --> 00:54:35,560 Speaker 1: I wondered like is this the wood sprite spirit of 1124 00:54:35,640 --> 00:54:38,560 Speaker 1: the lapland an Arctic or something. But it got to 1125 00:54:38,640 --> 00:54:40,560 Speaker 1: the point where I would stop and make a freeze 1126 00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:42,960 Speaker 1: dried meal and I'd be halfway through it and I'd go, oh, 1127 00:54:43,000 --> 00:54:45,359 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, and I'd turn around to offer a food 1128 00:54:45,480 --> 00:54:47,319 Speaker 1: and feel like I was a terrible host. That's how 1129 00:54:48,400 --> 00:54:53,320 Speaker 1: real she seemed to me. Strong, and it had some 1130 00:54:53,480 --> 00:54:55,880 Speaker 1: longevity to it. Look. I got to a checkpoint and 1131 00:54:55,960 --> 00:54:58,000 Speaker 1: there was a wooden bench seat, and I grabbed two 1132 00:54:58,080 --> 00:55:00,480 Speaker 1: hours sleep on this wooden bench seat, and I woke 1133 00:55:00,600 --> 00:55:03,399 Speaker 1: up and The first thought in my mind was, she's 1134 00:55:03,440 --> 00:55:06,239 Speaker 1: still outside. You didn't ask her in. Get outside and 1135 00:55:06,239 --> 00:55:08,680 Speaker 1: make sure she's okay. Like it. It's not like you 1136 00:55:08,800 --> 00:55:10,600 Speaker 1: got some sleep. And the whole thing went away, and 1137 00:55:10,600 --> 00:55:12,719 Speaker 1: I got ever, said to my wife and my dad said, 1138 00:55:12,760 --> 00:55:15,479 Speaker 1: for three days, I felt like there was a woman 1139 00:55:15,640 --> 00:55:18,160 Speaker 1: following me. She was not protecting me, but I just 1140 00:55:18,560 --> 00:55:22,439 Speaker 1: felt comfort that she was there anyway. The year lady, 1141 00:55:22,480 --> 00:55:24,760 Speaker 1: she sends me this article third Man effect. So polar 1142 00:55:24,840 --> 00:55:25,920 Speaker 1: explorers get this a lot. 1143 00:55:26,239 --> 00:55:26,800 Speaker 3: And what it is. 1144 00:55:26,880 --> 00:55:29,760 Speaker 1: Your brain gets to a point in an extreme duress, 1145 00:55:29,840 --> 00:55:34,440 Speaker 1: psychological duress, it will create and manifest a third person, 1146 00:55:34,840 --> 00:55:38,480 Speaker 1: another entity that will the idea being that it provides 1147 00:55:38,520 --> 00:55:41,640 Speaker 1: you comfort so that you will sustain and continue on. 1148 00:55:42,160 --> 00:55:45,920 Speaker 1: So rather than just stopping and freezing to death in 1149 00:55:46,000 --> 00:55:49,200 Speaker 1: the snow, your brain says, there's someone Here's it's all right, 1150 00:55:49,520 --> 00:55:52,520 Speaker 1: there's someone here that your friend. We're going to be okay, 1151 00:55:53,760 --> 00:55:56,240 Speaker 1: keep going, keep going, it's all right, there's a friend 1152 00:55:56,320 --> 00:55:59,360 Speaker 1: with you. We can feel positive, feel that positive energy 1153 00:55:59,600 --> 00:56:02,160 Speaker 1: and move for it. So looking back, yeah, my brain, 1154 00:56:02,200 --> 00:56:05,319 Speaker 1: I knew she wasn't real, but she also seemed very 1155 00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:07,279 Speaker 1: real to me. But that's what it was my brain 1156 00:56:07,360 --> 00:56:11,640 Speaker 1: had constructed this, this entity as a last ditch psychological 1157 00:56:11,760 --> 00:56:15,560 Speaker 1: protective mechanism to go, keep going. It's going to be okay, 1158 00:56:15,840 --> 00:56:17,000 Speaker 1: there's someone here. 1159 00:56:17,120 --> 00:56:17,560 Speaker 3: Jesus. 1160 00:56:19,000 --> 00:56:20,799 Speaker 1: Yeah, I didn't know what it was at the time, 1161 00:56:20,840 --> 00:56:23,200 Speaker 1: but apparently it's it's the third man effect. It's and 1162 00:56:23,400 --> 00:56:26,000 Speaker 1: and polar Explorers on you know people trudge into the 1163 00:56:26,080 --> 00:56:28,359 Speaker 1: South Pole of the North Pole or whatever. Said, yeah, 1164 00:56:28,360 --> 00:56:31,719 Speaker 1: they've they've experienced it. When you really bottom of the well, 1165 00:56:33,480 --> 00:56:35,680 Speaker 1: the brain's going, We've got to do something here. What 1166 00:56:35,760 --> 00:56:41,160 Speaker 1: do we do? Let's get an imaginary friend away you go. 1167 00:56:41,640 --> 00:56:47,640 Speaker 3: That's amazing. I have hallucinated on Day SAVEN of combat 1168 00:56:47,680 --> 00:56:52,520 Speaker 3: Survival and Resistance to Interrogation training, but nothing like that there. 1169 00:56:52,840 --> 00:56:57,560 Speaker 3: I was probably on your day two because it was tough, 1170 00:56:57,600 --> 00:57:00,719 Speaker 3: but not not freaking tough, and it's fascinated. 1171 00:57:00,800 --> 00:57:02,320 Speaker 1: I have memories that I know are not true, like 1172 00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:04,800 Speaker 1: I very vivid, clear memories that I know are false. 1173 00:57:05,280 --> 00:57:08,440 Speaker 1: And I have had experiences out there that I can't verify, 1174 00:57:09,160 --> 00:57:12,319 Speaker 1: like I've had interactions from like I have. Because you're alone, 1175 00:57:12,360 --> 00:57:14,440 Speaker 1: you don't see another human for days sometimes because you're 1176 00:57:14,480 --> 00:57:17,840 Speaker 1: so sparsely separated, Like I have no way of telling 1177 00:57:17,880 --> 00:57:20,400 Speaker 1: whether that person that I spoke to was real or 1178 00:57:20,520 --> 00:57:23,200 Speaker 1: that thing that I saw was real, I've got no 1179 00:57:23,320 --> 00:57:25,200 Speaker 1: I could argue either way. I can't verify. 1180 00:57:25,280 --> 00:57:28,120 Speaker 3: It must be really interesting for me as a scientist 1181 00:57:28,560 --> 00:57:32,120 Speaker 3: to be observing this stuff, right, it's like, wow, yeah, 1182 00:57:32,160 --> 00:57:32,760 Speaker 3: it's really good. 1183 00:57:32,960 --> 00:57:33,200 Speaker 4: I had. 1184 00:57:33,520 --> 00:57:36,000 Speaker 1: I did a full complete interview mid race at a 1185 00:57:36,120 --> 00:57:39,680 Speaker 1: checkpoint with a German TV crew in Northern Canada, right 1186 00:57:40,120 --> 00:57:42,520 Speaker 1: in like I was. I was at a checkpoint, chatting 1187 00:57:42,600 --> 00:57:44,480 Speaker 1: the guys at a film guy camera guy do with 1188 00:57:44,520 --> 00:57:47,640 Speaker 1: a mic, blah blah blah. No one can verify it. 1189 00:57:47,720 --> 00:57:49,640 Speaker 1: Everyone who was there is like there was no one there, mate, 1190 00:57:49,720 --> 00:57:52,680 Speaker 1: Like I've never found the interview. I can't find eve 1191 00:57:52,680 --> 00:57:55,000 Speaker 1: when I was smoking to you you who else saw that? 1192 00:57:55,160 --> 00:57:55,320 Speaker 3: Did do? 1193 00:57:55,440 --> 00:57:57,720 Speaker 1: I get interviewed by the German film crew and everyone's like, 1194 00:58:01,440 --> 00:58:06,160 Speaker 1: well this is awkward, Like okay, this is very awkward. 1195 00:58:06,320 --> 00:58:09,200 Speaker 1: Like I to this day, I don't actually know whether 1196 00:58:09,200 --> 00:58:11,200 Speaker 1: it happened or not because I can't verify it, like 1197 00:58:12,320 --> 00:58:15,280 Speaker 1: no one else saw them. I've never found the interview. 1198 00:58:15,600 --> 00:58:17,560 Speaker 1: But to my like I can, I can picture the 1199 00:58:17,640 --> 00:58:20,440 Speaker 1: three guys there like we were the Checkbob was a 1200 00:58:20,480 --> 00:58:23,200 Speaker 1: shipping container in the Arctic, and I was there getting changed, 1201 00:58:23,240 --> 00:58:26,840 Speaker 1: eating the freeze dried, and the cameraman. I'll go to 1202 00:58:26,920 --> 00:58:28,240 Speaker 1: my graves not knowing if that happened or not. I 1203 00:58:28,320 --> 00:58:32,200 Speaker 1: have no idea. I don't know. Maybe why were they 1204 00:58:32,280 --> 00:58:34,840 Speaker 1: doing I don't know, Like what's going on in my brain. 1205 00:58:39,160 --> 00:58:44,360 Speaker 3: Is brellidant. So man, this stuff can can be addictive, right, 1206 00:58:44,840 --> 00:58:47,520 Speaker 3: what is next to you for you? And and like 1207 00:58:47,640 --> 00:58:51,200 Speaker 3: what's your thought process about this sort of stuff? And 1208 00:58:51,560 --> 00:58:54,240 Speaker 3: and is there an end game? You know what? What 1209 00:58:54,440 --> 00:58:57,440 Speaker 3: kind of goes through your head when you think about 1210 00:58:57,520 --> 00:58:58,080 Speaker 3: the future. 1211 00:58:58,520 --> 00:59:01,919 Speaker 1: It's a it's a it's a really important question. Hung 1212 00:59:02,000 --> 00:59:04,720 Speaker 1: my boots up from Higltitude mountaineering because you know, I 1213 00:59:04,840 --> 00:59:07,440 Speaker 1: got to the point where I was watching them longline 1214 00:59:07,480 --> 00:59:09,800 Speaker 1: the bodies off and you're like you you're going up 1215 00:59:09,840 --> 00:59:12,000 Speaker 1: there next, and you're like, how far a dore you 1216 00:59:12,040 --> 00:59:13,520 Speaker 1: need to go here? Like when you're a single guy, 1217 00:59:13,560 --> 00:59:15,400 Speaker 1: it's different. You can just keep pushing the chips all 1218 00:59:15,480 --> 00:59:17,680 Speaker 1: in all the time. But you get married, you have kids, 1219 00:59:18,160 --> 00:59:20,000 Speaker 1: and I always explain to people like, you know, I'm 1220 00:59:20,040 --> 00:59:23,360 Speaker 1: doing keynotes and these photos look amazing, but I got 1221 00:59:23,400 --> 00:59:26,560 Speaker 1: the photo. But back home there's all this cast of 1222 00:59:26,640 --> 00:59:29,520 Speaker 1: people who are not getting cool photos for Instagram, who 1223 00:59:29,560 --> 00:59:31,480 Speaker 1: are working their ass off, so I can go get 1224 00:59:31,600 --> 00:59:34,640 Speaker 1: that because you know I'm away, which my wife works 1225 00:59:34,640 --> 00:59:36,960 Speaker 1: full time. She's a school principal, so she's now juggling 1226 00:59:37,000 --> 00:59:39,120 Speaker 1: full time work and two kids. And you know, my 1227 00:59:39,280 --> 00:59:41,480 Speaker 1: parents are helping out. Her parents are helping out. Like 1228 00:59:41,760 --> 00:59:43,760 Speaker 1: You've done all this training, and I do a lot 1229 00:59:43,800 --> 00:59:47,760 Speaker 1: of my training at night. Logistically it works, but there's 1230 00:59:47,800 --> 00:59:50,120 Speaker 1: still sacrifices that you're not at home because you're off 1231 00:59:50,160 --> 00:59:52,320 Speaker 1: doing epic training runs and all this kind of stuff. 1232 00:59:52,360 --> 00:59:55,240 Speaker 1: So there are people now paying costs for you to 1233 00:59:55,320 --> 00:59:57,600 Speaker 1: do some of this stuff. So hung the boots up going, 1234 00:59:57,640 --> 01:00:00,200 Speaker 1: I can't just keep pushing the chips all in. But 1235 01:00:00,280 --> 01:00:02,480 Speaker 1: then found out had a weird skill set, very good 1236 01:00:02,520 --> 01:00:05,160 Speaker 1: in cold where the very good hauling heavy loads can 1237 01:00:05,240 --> 01:00:07,520 Speaker 1: go very long periods of time doing that. Is there 1238 01:00:07,560 --> 01:00:09,640 Speaker 1: a place I can use that in? Yeah, Arctic ultras. 1239 01:00:09,680 --> 01:00:11,280 Speaker 1: Oh cool, didn't even know that was a thing. And 1240 01:00:11,400 --> 01:00:14,000 Speaker 1: away you go. And then part of it is why 1241 01:00:14,080 --> 01:00:15,600 Speaker 1: do you do these things? Well? I do them for 1242 01:00:15,760 --> 01:00:18,920 Speaker 1: me because they're the only vehicle I've found where I 1243 01:00:18,960 --> 01:00:20,760 Speaker 1: can dig all the way to the bottom of the 1244 01:00:20,840 --> 01:00:23,080 Speaker 1: well and see who's there. But for me, it's a 1245 01:00:23,280 --> 01:00:26,120 Speaker 1: very almost spiritual kind of thing. It's a physical thing 1246 01:00:26,160 --> 01:00:28,520 Speaker 1: and it's a mental thing. But it just reminds you 1247 01:00:28,600 --> 01:00:30,800 Speaker 1: when you go out there. Mountains don't care about your 1248 01:00:30,840 --> 01:00:33,600 Speaker 1: business card. You know, the Arctic doesn't care what you earn. 1249 01:00:34,200 --> 01:00:36,480 Speaker 1: It doesn't give us stuff how many followers you've got. 1250 01:00:36,880 --> 01:00:39,000 Speaker 1: It's just did you do the work to earn the 1251 01:00:39,160 --> 01:00:42,080 Speaker 1: right to even attempt this, And then when you're in 1252 01:00:42,120 --> 01:00:44,040 Speaker 1: the middle of it, let's see what you're worth and 1253 01:00:44,120 --> 01:00:47,160 Speaker 1: see what you've got. So for me, there's that experience, 1254 01:00:47,600 --> 01:00:49,600 Speaker 1: But then you get into that thinking, well, now I'm 1255 01:00:49,640 --> 01:00:51,400 Speaker 1: doing these races and I'm pushing to get to the 1256 01:00:51,600 --> 01:00:54,040 Speaker 1: very end, like there's international fields and I'm pushing to 1257 01:00:54,080 --> 01:00:56,400 Speaker 1: get right on the podium, and that comes at a cost. 1258 01:00:56,640 --> 01:00:59,200 Speaker 1: I got back from that Sweden race last year and 1259 01:00:59,280 --> 01:01:01,280 Speaker 1: for a few months I had trouble with people's names, 1260 01:01:01,400 --> 01:01:03,560 Speaker 1: Like I'd get a surname or a first name, but 1261 01:01:03,600 --> 01:01:05,440 Speaker 1: not a full name. So you're like, I think we 1262 01:01:05,520 --> 01:01:08,000 Speaker 1: might have earn a few too many neurons out that's 1263 01:01:08,040 --> 01:01:09,200 Speaker 1: the decoration. 1264 01:01:08,840 --> 01:01:11,920 Speaker 3: And that extreme I would like to see mri Skut 1265 01:01:12,000 --> 01:01:12,680 Speaker 3: would impulse. 1266 01:01:15,680 --> 01:01:20,840 Speaker 1: It's an empty cabin. So you do you go, well, okay, 1267 01:01:20,920 --> 01:01:22,720 Speaker 1: why do you do these things? You're like, okay, okay, 1268 01:01:22,800 --> 01:01:24,680 Speaker 1: to push yourself and to have that experience in that 1269 01:01:24,760 --> 01:01:27,720 Speaker 1: place that's really important. But you know, I'm forty nine 1270 01:01:27,840 --> 01:01:30,520 Speaker 1: now and I'm in good nick. I think I can 1271 01:01:30,600 --> 01:01:32,720 Speaker 1: still operate at the thin end of the wedge for 1272 01:01:32,800 --> 01:01:36,040 Speaker 1: a period of time. But I'm also starting to think 1273 01:01:36,080 --> 01:01:38,400 Speaker 1: now about you need to have a strategy to transition 1274 01:01:38,600 --> 01:01:41,240 Speaker 1: to go. You need to still go and enjoy them 1275 01:01:41,840 --> 01:01:46,040 Speaker 1: and come away with some gratitude and have an experience 1276 01:01:46,120 --> 01:01:49,760 Speaker 1: that justifies your sacrifice and the sacrifice of those around 1277 01:01:49,840 --> 01:01:52,720 Speaker 1: you for you to do these things. So there's that 1278 01:01:53,240 --> 01:01:55,800 Speaker 1: that balancing act, and I'm still navigating that. I don't 1279 01:01:55,880 --> 01:01:58,640 Speaker 1: know what the answer is. I will continue to do stuff, 1280 01:01:59,080 --> 01:02:02,520 Speaker 1: much to my mother's She's like, what's next. There'll be something, 1281 01:02:02,560 --> 01:02:04,520 Speaker 1: There's always something. You're always planning something, you ought to 1282 01:02:04,560 --> 01:02:07,040 Speaker 1: be something. But for me, it's a case of make 1283 01:02:07,120 --> 01:02:10,720 Speaker 1: sure that the reason that you're going to make sacrifices 1284 01:02:10,720 --> 01:02:13,320 Speaker 1: and other make sacrifices is a valid one. It's good enough. 1285 01:02:13,760 --> 01:02:16,080 Speaker 1: So for example, to do another cold race, for me, 1286 01:02:16,720 --> 01:02:20,840 Speaker 1: doesn't really stack up. I've done three major ones, I've 1287 01:02:20,960 --> 01:02:23,880 Speaker 1: podium two of them. What am I going back to prove? 1288 01:02:24,480 --> 01:02:27,120 Speaker 1: Are you going to learn? Well? Probably not. I'm not 1289 01:02:27,200 --> 01:02:29,560 Speaker 1: going to learn much more doing that. Okay, If you're 1290 01:02:29,600 --> 01:02:32,200 Speaker 1: going to go through to that level again, do it 1291 01:02:32,280 --> 01:02:35,040 Speaker 1: in a different environment so that we're back learning again. 1292 01:02:35,520 --> 01:02:38,680 Speaker 1: Otherwise you're actually going to sound silly if I go 1293 01:02:38,760 --> 01:02:41,200 Speaker 1: to another six hundred klometer arctic ultra. That's a comfort 1294 01:02:41,280 --> 01:02:43,600 Speaker 1: zone for me almost because I know what to expect 1295 01:02:43,640 --> 01:02:46,080 Speaker 1: and how to operate. So you should go somewhere and 1296 01:02:46,120 --> 01:02:48,720 Speaker 1: do something different because that's where you'll learn. And that's 1297 01:02:48,760 --> 01:02:52,200 Speaker 1: your job to keep learning and discovering stuff about yourself. 1298 01:02:52,640 --> 01:02:55,560 Speaker 1: So try a different hard thing. So for me, I'm 1299 01:02:55,600 --> 01:02:57,680 Speaker 1: just trying to navigate that. What's the next hard thing 1300 01:02:57,760 --> 01:03:00,720 Speaker 1: that's the right hard thing and a work wild hard 1301 01:03:00,800 --> 01:03:04,680 Speaker 1: thing but respects everyone in my circle, And I'm trying 1302 01:03:04,680 --> 01:03:06,320 Speaker 1: to navigate that. I don't know what that looks like yet, 1303 01:03:06,400 --> 01:03:08,640 Speaker 1: but I'm enjoying that process, you know, love the process. 1304 01:03:08,880 --> 01:03:12,360 Speaker 1: I always say the start line is a celebration. It's 1305 01:03:12,400 --> 01:03:13,880 Speaker 1: a celebration of all the work that you did to 1306 01:03:13,960 --> 01:03:17,000 Speaker 1: get there. So enjoy, find the love and the enjoyment 1307 01:03:17,280 --> 01:03:19,680 Speaker 1: and the value in the work. And then when you 1308 01:03:19,720 --> 01:03:23,040 Speaker 1: get to the start line, that's that's the celebration. You 1309 01:03:23,160 --> 01:03:25,920 Speaker 1: aren't the right to be here. Celebrate that and then 1310 01:03:26,000 --> 01:03:26,640 Speaker 1: go execute. 1311 01:03:26,960 --> 01:03:30,720 Speaker 3: Very cool, very cool. Indeed, last question, how do you 1312 01:03:30,760 --> 01:03:31,240 Speaker 3: still down? 1313 01:03:31,640 --> 01:03:32,720 Speaker 1: Very very valid question. 1314 01:03:32,840 --> 01:03:37,400 Speaker 3: PT You've got to plead. 1315 01:03:39,120 --> 01:03:39,680 Speaker 2: I'll let you know. 1316 01:03:39,800 --> 01:03:43,560 Speaker 1: I'll let you know. I don't know. I always joke going, 1317 01:03:43,600 --> 01:03:46,360 Speaker 1: you know, I give people who journal and do cold 1318 01:03:46,400 --> 01:03:48,040 Speaker 1: pungers and they say I give them a hard time, 1319 01:03:48,160 --> 01:03:50,040 Speaker 1: you know, tongue in cheek. I don't, you know. I 1320 01:03:50,800 --> 01:03:52,400 Speaker 1: post up the day like you know, I didn't write 1321 01:03:52,440 --> 01:03:55,840 Speaker 1: my journal yesterday. That's now seventeen, three hundred and eighty 1322 01:03:55,840 --> 01:03:58,320 Speaker 1: three days I've missed, you know, in a row. But 1323 01:03:58,840 --> 01:04:02,800 Speaker 1: some people journal with pen and paper. I journal with 1324 01:04:02,880 --> 01:04:05,800 Speaker 1: a pair of runners and VO two. That's my journaling. 1325 01:04:05,960 --> 01:04:10,840 Speaker 1: So for me, sometimes the training isn't just training. That's 1326 01:04:10,920 --> 01:04:13,080 Speaker 1: what I do. That's part of my identity. I get 1327 01:04:13,120 --> 01:04:14,920 Speaker 1: out and I go for a run every day. And 1328 01:04:15,080 --> 01:04:17,440 Speaker 1: sometimes that's very focused because I've got an event coming up, 1329 01:04:17,800 --> 01:04:20,720 Speaker 1: and sometimes it's because that's how I best operate as 1330 01:04:20,760 --> 01:04:24,400 Speaker 1: a human. That's my operating system. So I journal outside 1331 01:04:24,680 --> 01:04:26,840 Speaker 1: with a pair of shoes. Other people journal with a 1332 01:04:26,880 --> 01:04:29,360 Speaker 1: pen and paper. That you find your thing, that's okay. 1333 01:04:29,920 --> 01:04:32,320 Speaker 1: So for me slowing down, do. 1334 01:04:32,400 --> 01:04:35,000 Speaker 3: You find just a distance where the runners high kicks 1335 01:04:35,080 --> 01:04:35,400 Speaker 3: in for you? 1336 01:04:35,920 --> 01:04:36,600 Speaker 1: Not particularly? 1337 01:04:36,720 --> 01:04:39,880 Speaker 3: No, you know that that kind of casar chic like 1338 01:04:40,280 --> 01:04:42,920 Speaker 3: chilled out stuff that a lot of runners talk about. 1339 01:04:42,960 --> 01:04:45,240 Speaker 3: I don't run anywhere near enough to find that. 1340 01:04:45,400 --> 01:04:48,160 Speaker 1: No, for me, it's more it's more the environment. So 1341 01:04:48,280 --> 01:04:50,440 Speaker 1: for me, I love like if I head out, you know, 1342 01:04:50,840 --> 01:04:53,280 Speaker 1: pre dawn getting it because I'm in a rural area. 1343 01:04:53,360 --> 01:04:54,760 Speaker 1: You get out and the sun's coming up and you're 1344 01:04:54,800 --> 01:04:57,920 Speaker 1: running through you know, paddocks and cows and sheep and 1345 01:04:57,960 --> 01:05:00,720 Speaker 1: all that, and you're like, damn it is this Like 1346 01:05:00,840 --> 01:05:03,680 Speaker 1: you get to do this? You have a functioning body. 1347 01:05:03,760 --> 01:05:05,760 Speaker 1: I'm like, you know, I joked that I'm not elite, 1348 01:05:05,880 --> 01:05:08,160 Speaker 1: like you know, I've got chicken stick legs and thick 1349 01:05:08,200 --> 01:05:11,480 Speaker 1: glasses or whatever. But imagine how many people would give 1350 01:05:11,840 --> 01:05:13,640 Speaker 1: anything to be in a position where they could go 1351 01:05:13,760 --> 01:05:16,840 Speaker 1: out and walk that or run that, and you can 1352 01:05:16,880 --> 01:05:18,120 Speaker 1: do it for your own free will? How do you 1353 01:05:18,240 --> 01:05:21,200 Speaker 1: not do that? So for me, it's more about I 1354 01:05:21,320 --> 01:05:23,200 Speaker 1: get to do that, and the sun's coming up and 1355 01:05:23,320 --> 01:05:25,520 Speaker 1: it's and it's it's a beautiful part of the world. 1356 01:05:26,200 --> 01:05:27,520 Speaker 1: And there's a lot of parts of the world that 1357 01:05:27,560 --> 01:05:30,240 Speaker 1: aren't they beautiful. Shit, it's pretty cool hearing it. So 1358 01:05:30,440 --> 01:05:33,040 Speaker 1: for me, it's really just there's no if I do 1359 01:05:33,120 --> 01:05:36,320 Speaker 1: twelve k's I hear, you know, harps and violins. Now 1360 01:05:36,440 --> 01:05:38,400 Speaker 1: I just get out and some days ship and some 1361 01:05:38,560 --> 01:05:40,680 Speaker 1: days you're like, how good's this? Like that? I don't 1362 01:05:40,680 --> 01:05:42,160 Speaker 1: know whether it gets much better than this, you. 1363 01:05:42,160 --> 01:05:43,760 Speaker 3: Know where we go? 1364 01:05:43,920 --> 01:05:44,560 Speaker 1: How lucky are we? 1365 01:05:45,160 --> 01:05:50,560 Speaker 3: Very cool? Matt, you are definitely the epetome of anti fragile. 1366 01:05:50,640 --> 01:05:56,680 Speaker 3: We could talk for the herculean hormatic human, but what 1367 01:05:56,880 --> 01:06:02,560 Speaker 3: I really love is the filhilosophical insights that the a 1368 01:06:02,920 --> 01:06:07,760 Speaker 3: that you have learned from being an addict of stirring 1369 01:06:07,840 --> 01:06:11,040 Speaker 3: into the abyss. Right, THEO used to do it once 1370 01:06:11,160 --> 01:06:13,280 Speaker 3: or twice in their life, but you do it routinely. 1371 01:06:13,560 --> 01:06:18,400 Speaker 3: But just how you've actually taken that and and and 1372 01:06:18,720 --> 01:06:23,400 Speaker 3: formulated a whole philosophy. But also for helping others with 1373 01:06:23,680 --> 01:06:26,560 Speaker 3: with corporates and with school kids. So if there's any 1374 01:06:26,760 --> 01:06:30,439 Speaker 3: principles out there, if there's any corporates out there, Paul 1375 01:06:30,480 --> 01:06:34,480 Speaker 3: Watkins is the guy for your next event? Or can 1376 01:06:34,520 --> 01:06:39,240 Speaker 3: people find out more about you and the crazy ship 1377 01:06:39,400 --> 01:06:42,800 Speaker 3: that you do, but also any any any offers and 1378 01:06:43,840 --> 01:06:44,440 Speaker 3: lessons that you have. 1379 01:06:44,680 --> 01:06:47,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, Paul Watkins dot com dot IU that's my website. 1380 01:06:47,320 --> 01:06:50,680 Speaker 1: You can find the high level details there. I'm on 1381 01:06:50,840 --> 01:06:53,600 Speaker 1: LinkedIn a lot like a lot, so I post, I 1382 01:06:53,720 --> 01:06:56,439 Speaker 1: write a lot there and I write on sub steck 1383 01:06:56,480 --> 01:06:59,600 Speaker 1: as well. But look find primary Paul Watkins dot com 1384 01:06:59,640 --> 01:07:02,000 Speaker 1: that I use. Find me there or find me on LinkedIn, 1385 01:07:02,280 --> 01:07:04,600 Speaker 1: and from there you can pick your rabbit hole and 1386 01:07:04,920 --> 01:07:05,600 Speaker 1: go from there. 1387 01:07:06,400 --> 01:07:09,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, this has been absolutely awesome, so thank you. 1388 01:07:10,240 --> 01:07:11,840 Speaker 1: Thanks for having me. I don't really appreciate it. 1389 01:07:13,200 --> 01:07:15,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, No, it was a It was a wonderful conversation. 1390 01:07:15,480 --> 01:07:19,160 Speaker 3: Absolutely loved it. So I think I think we'll have 1391 01:07:19,200 --> 01:07:21,240 Speaker 3: to do this again at some stage. If we mustn't 1392 01:07:21,320 --> 01:07:22,120 Speaker 3: go down a rabbit hop. 1393 01:07:22,200 --> 01:07:24,240 Speaker 1: If we might, we'll solve all the world's problems. Make 1394 01:07:24,280 --> 01:07:26,480 Speaker 1: give us another hour, we'd have most of its sort. 1395 01:07:26,320 --> 01:07:30,600 Speaker 3: And already indeed, all right, man, thanks for your time 1396 01:07:31,000 --> 01:07:32,240 Speaker 3: and have a great text. 1397 01:07:32,480 --> 01:07:33,360 Speaker 1: But I love it. Thanks