1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,360 Speaker 1: Something that many of you have brought up on this 2 00:00:02,440 --> 00:00:04,400 Speaker 1: program over the last couple of years, and that is 3 00:00:04,440 --> 00:00:10,320 Speaker 1: migration levels, immigrants coming in and sustainable population. Australia have 4 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:15,360 Speaker 1: put out a release today saying it's time to stabilize 5 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:20,439 Speaker 1: our population, saying many of us are frustrated at the 6 00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:24,800 Speaker 1: impact of rapid population growth on day to day living 7 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:28,040 Speaker 1: and frustrated their voices not being heard by political leaders. 8 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:31,520 Speaker 1: Let's have a chat with Leith Van Nonsolin, chief economist 9 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:34,240 Speaker 1: and co founder of Macro Business, who's on the line, 10 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:38,320 Speaker 1: Leath good Mining, Matthew, Yeah, good, thank you. So this 11 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:41,239 Speaker 1: wouldn't come as a surprise to anyone hearing this that 12 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:44,800 Speaker 1: a lot of people think migration has been too high 13 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 1: in recent years and it needs to come to a 14 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:50,280 Speaker 1: well a slow to a trickle at best. 15 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:55,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, certainly, I think that's the case. So a strange population, 16 00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:57,440 Speaker 2: just just to put in the perspective since the turn 17 00:00:57,440 --> 00:01:00,520 Speaker 2: of a century, so since two thousand, we've grown the 18 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:04,280 Speaker 2: population by about eight point five million people. Now that's 19 00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 2: an extraordinary amount of growth in a short period of time. 20 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 2: And the way that's come about it is because the 21 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:13,479 Speaker 2: federal government from the mid two thousands massively increased our 22 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:19,520 Speaker 2: migration intake. So for basically, in the sixty years post 23 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:22,840 Speaker 2: World War Two, we averaged about ninety thousand that overseas 24 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:26,039 Speaker 2: migration a year, and in the twenty years leading up 25 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:29,200 Speaker 2: to the pandemic that surged to two hundred and twenty 26 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:32,440 Speaker 2: thousand a year, and then obviously recovering from the pandemic, 27 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:35,680 Speaker 2: we've had five hundred and fifty thousand last year, and 28 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:39,160 Speaker 2: the long run projections from this Generation report are that 29 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:41,040 Speaker 2: we're going to have two hundred and thirty five thousand 30 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:44,320 Speaker 2: that overseas migration in definitely, and what that's projected to 31 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:47,000 Speaker 2: do is to increase australia As population of forty point 32 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:50,960 Speaker 2: five million people in just thirty nine years by twenty 33 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:54,200 Speaker 2: sixty two to sixty three from currently twenty seven a 34 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:57,720 Speaker 2: half million. So that just put those numbers in this subjective, 35 00:01:57,720 --> 00:01:59,560 Speaker 2: that's a thirty eight million increase in the next thirty 36 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:02,640 Speaker 2: nine year and that's the equivalent of adding another Sydney, 37 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:07,200 Speaker 2: Melbourne and the Susan to Australia's population in just thirty 38 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:10,160 Speaker 2: nine years. Now, that's an enormous amount of people. And 39 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:13,120 Speaker 2: what it means is it means that basically you living 40 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:15,360 Speaker 2: a major city, future residents going to have to live 41 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:19,400 Speaker 2: in high rises because you know, I'm from Melbourne's obviously 42 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:20,840 Speaker 2: it's a lot worse down here, but we were three 43 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:27,079 Speaker 2: and a half million people at the turn of this century, happidly. Look, unfortunately, 44 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:31,240 Speaker 2: the insineration reports very biased. It's done by the Australian Treasury, 45 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:33,560 Speaker 2: and the way it works at the moment is the 46 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:35,919 Speaker 2: federal government collects about eighty de termin the nation's tax 47 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:39,799 Speaker 2: revenues and the states and local governments collect about twenty percent. 48 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 2: So what it means is the federal government gets most 49 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:45,360 Speaker 2: of the benefits from immigration through increased personal into personal 50 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:49,360 Speaker 2: taxes and company taxes, but the costs of immigration are 51 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:52,520 Speaker 2: borne by the state and local governments and residents at large. 52 00:02:52,919 --> 00:02:55,880 Speaker 2: And as a result, the federal government sees big migration 53 00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:58,760 Speaker 2: as just a win because it just boalses the federal 54 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:01,359 Speaker 2: budget without them having to pay the extra cost associated 55 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:04,560 Speaker 2: with migration, and as a result, the intergeneration, of course, 56 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:09,079 Speaker 2: is basically one big propaganda report arguing for a larger 57 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:14,120 Speaker 2: population on budgetry grounds. Effectively, right, So yeah, look you 58 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:17,880 Speaker 2: can pretty much be ignored. It's a biased document. It doesn't. 59 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:21,359 Speaker 2: It doesn't weigh up the costs of residents at large 60 00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:23,800 Speaker 2: from this much much larger population. 61 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:27,280 Speaker 1: All right, So apart from high rise ley and the 62 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 1: argument it has always been we've got so much space 63 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:34,240 Speaker 1: in this country, we can fill it with people and 64 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 1: you wouldn't miss a beat. But that's not really how 65 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 1: it works, of course, because everyone goes to the major 66 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:40,880 Speaker 1: cities particularly, that's right. 67 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 2: And also we have a very fragile ecosystem, so where 68 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 2: is the water going to come from? You know, we 69 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:49,360 Speaker 2: already have a situation where we don't have enough water 70 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:53,240 Speaker 2: supplies to supply the existing population over the long term, 71 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 2: and as a result, we're building desalination plans everywhere, and 72 00:03:56,240 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 2: desalination plans have to be built on the coast and 73 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 2: then they have to be piped in land and against gravity, 74 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:05,760 Speaker 2: so they're very very expensive to build. They're also environmentally destructed. 75 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 2: And the whole notion that we can just spread this 76 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 2: in huge increasing population inland is just the pipe dream 77 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 2: because this isn't the water supplies to do it. And 78 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:17,479 Speaker 2: as a result, you know, we know that migrants tend 79 00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:20,280 Speaker 2: to come to Sydney and Melbourne, Brisbane mostly and then 80 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:24,080 Speaker 2: we get spillovers in Adelaide and other places. And as 81 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:26,279 Speaker 2: a result, that's why we're looking at these population projections 82 00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:28,440 Speaker 2: for places like Melbourne three and a half million at 83 00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:31,039 Speaker 2: the third of the century in year two thousand, to 84 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:35,159 Speaker 2: nine million people by twenty fifty six, and Sydney roughly 85 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:39,560 Speaker 2: doubling in the same period. So the whole notion, you know, 86 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:41,680 Speaker 2: it's great in theory, yes we should spread them out, 87 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:45,200 Speaker 2: but the reality is and under their current projections, Sydney 88 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:47,560 Speaker 2: and Melbourne are going to become mega cities, and Sydneys 89 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:51,240 Speaker 2: in Melbourne's populations by say twenty seventy ay are going 90 00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:53,240 Speaker 2: to be larger. Each city's going to be larger than 91 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:57,479 Speaker 2: the entire Australian population was in nineteen fifty, which is 92 00:04:57,520 --> 00:04:58,120 Speaker 2: just enormous. 93 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:03,960 Speaker 1: The argument has been, as our existing population ages, we 94 00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:07,599 Speaker 1: need to bring in younger people to help look after 95 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:12,479 Speaker 1: the aged. But that doesn't end, does it. Because you 96 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:14,560 Speaker 1: bring in people today, eventually they're going to be aged. 97 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:16,480 Speaker 1: So then the argue will be, well, you bring more 98 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:20,040 Speaker 1: people into help look after them, and it's a sort 99 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:21,520 Speaker 1: of a vicious, never ending circle. 100 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 2: Yeah. Look at look look look at the ultwork pyramid skept. Yeah, 101 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:27,760 Speaker 2: So one of the reasons why Austraia has an aging 102 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:31,480 Speaker 2: population now is because of the post war migration boom 103 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:36,240 Speaker 2: and obviously the baby boom regenerations. So families had a 104 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:38,720 Speaker 2: lot of births in nineteen fifty nine and sixty and 105 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:40,760 Speaker 2: also we had a lot of migration back there and 106 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:43,000 Speaker 2: guess what, those people have now gotten old and as 107 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:45,160 Speaker 2: a result of an aging problem now. So the solution 108 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:48,720 Speaker 2: always is, let's bring in migrants because they're a little 109 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:52,839 Speaker 2: bit younger temporarily and that the ages the population. But 110 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 2: all you have to do is fast forward forty years 111 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:57,919 Speaker 2: time and all the current migration boom that we're bringing 112 00:05:57,920 --> 00:05:59,839 Speaker 2: in now are going to be old and they're going 113 00:05:59,920 --> 00:06:02,599 Speaker 2: to face exactly the same problems, except we're going to 114 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:05,520 Speaker 2: have a much bigger population to deal with it. And 115 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:07,680 Speaker 2: I'll just have one other thing, Matthew. Another reason why 116 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:11,480 Speaker 2: this is disastrous policy for Australia is because Australia is 117 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:16,600 Speaker 2: a massive energy export, resource exporter. We have huge amounts 118 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:19,200 Speaker 2: of resources. Well, we have pretty much everything in the 119 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:22,359 Speaker 2: world needs except for oil. We have rules of coal, 120 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:27,200 Speaker 2: iron or uranium, nickel, lithium, all these sorts of things. 121 00:06:27,839 --> 00:06:30,400 Speaker 2: And the worst thing you can do is to basically 122 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:32,880 Speaker 2: grow the population aggressively, because all you do end up 123 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:35,760 Speaker 2: doing is diluting your minneral wealth amongst more people, so 124 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:38,800 Speaker 2: you actually become poorer per person. And that's effective the 125 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:42,159 Speaker 2: Australian economic model. We don't tax resources properly so I 126 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:44,560 Speaker 2: take enough benefit from it, and then we also in 127 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:48,240 Speaker 2: create presub population aggressively through immigration so that the resources 128 00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:51,119 Speaker 2: are worth less per person, which actually makes you poorer 129 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:51,760 Speaker 2: in the long run. 130 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:54,840 Speaker 1: Not to mention the fact, and it's not the cord 131 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:57,840 Speaker 1: raak of block's, as you said repeatedly, high rise towers 132 00:06:57,839 --> 00:07:00,760 Speaker 1: that are going to have to be built to how people. 133 00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:03,120 Speaker 1: That doesn't solve the housing problem at all. 134 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:06,119 Speaker 2: No, No, it's also a massive dilution in your standard 135 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:11,440 Speaker 2: of living. So whereas past generations could afford a house 136 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 2: or the backyard on a single income, we're facing a 137 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:18,120 Speaker 2: future where, especially if you're living in Sydney Melbourne, and 138 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:20,160 Speaker 2: this is a debate that's played out in these cities 139 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:24,760 Speaker 2: right now, where the governments want to basically have derregate 140 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:27,840 Speaker 2: planning so you can have twenty story tower blocks in 141 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:31,520 Speaker 2: existing suburbs everywhere. And what it basically means is the 142 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:33,480 Speaker 2: future residence is going to be paying more to living 143 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:36,960 Speaker 2: high rise shoe boxes, whereas previous generation has got to 144 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 2: live in an attached house in the backyard. And I'd 145 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:41,800 Speaker 2: argue that that is a massive dilution of Australia's quality 146 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:44,320 Speaker 2: of life. And this is the fundamental driver to that 147 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 2: is excessive levels of immigration. Because again, if you're going 148 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:50,840 Speaker 2: to grow Melbourne from three point five million people turns 149 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:53,320 Speaker 2: century to nine million people, you're going to have to 150 00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:55,800 Speaker 2: people living in high eyes. That's the reality of it. 151 00:07:56,400 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 2: That's not the way around it. 152 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:00,760 Speaker 1: Either major party look like they're taking interest in this leak. 153 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:05,320 Speaker 2: Look that the Coalition to a degree is not nearly enough, 154 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:08,080 Speaker 2: but they have pledged to lower the permanent migrant intake 155 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:09,680 Speaker 2: to one hundred and forty thousands for a couple of 156 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 2: years from current one hundred and eighty five thousand. That's 157 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:18,080 Speaker 2: not including humanitarians. But certainly you know they do want 158 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:21,960 Speaker 2: to lower meadows overseas migration more than labor does. And 159 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:23,240 Speaker 2: I think that's a good thing, but I think they 160 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:26,840 Speaker 2: need to go harder. Really, Australis nadow to seas migration 161 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:30,840 Speaker 2: should not extend one hundred and twenty thousand we before 162 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:34,319 Speaker 2: two thousand and five, you know, we averaged in the 163 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:37,080 Speaker 2: previous sixty years after the Second World War, we averaged 164 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:39,720 Speaker 2: about ninety thousand, I think one hundred and twenty thousands 165 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 2: the right amount. That's a sustainable amount. We should just 166 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:46,400 Speaker 2: make it very high skilled. Yeah, so that you only, 167 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:50,120 Speaker 2: we're really only importing people with genuine skills that we 168 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:54,280 Speaker 2: genuinely need rather than just this open flavor approach that 169 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:54,960 Speaker 2: we've been running. 170 00:08:56,480 --> 00:08:58,320 Speaker 1: Is there an argument Is there room for the argument 171 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:01,320 Speaker 1: that has a compassionate, wealthy country, we should do more 172 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:04,480 Speaker 1: to help the world's needy in that regard. I mean, 173 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:07,439 Speaker 1: you know, if I wanted to play Devil's advocate, I'd 174 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:10,959 Speaker 1: certainly put that argument to you. Is there room for that? Well? 175 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:12,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, we already do have a very high 176 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:16,880 Speaker 2: humanitarian intake per capita, So a humanitarian takes twenty thousand 177 00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:21,400 Speaker 2: a year, which is quite substantial, especially given up population size. 178 00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:25,320 Speaker 2: But so, you know, certainly we already do a lot 179 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:31,000 Speaker 2: of that stuff. But unfortunately, Australia's current migration system is 180 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 2: geared around poaching so called skilled workers from less developed 181 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:38,559 Speaker 2: countries who need those workers, right, they end up coming 182 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 2: to Australia and they don't end up using those skills anyway, 183 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:43,840 Speaker 2: and they're not driving ubers and doing those sorts of things, 184 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 2: And so I argue, is that actually a benefit to 185 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:51,839 Speaker 2: the source country? You know, you're effectively stripping them and 186 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:54,840 Speaker 2: their workers, bring them to Australia and they don't end 187 00:09:54,920 --> 00:09:57,960 Speaker 2: up working those areas anyway. It's especially worse. 188 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:00,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, you're right. And I had a newber driver the 189 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:03,280 Speaker 1: other day. He was telling me in India he was 190 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:09,719 Speaker 1: a skilled heavy vehicle diesel mechanic and he's got a 191 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 1: contract here to do that as part of his coming 192 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:17,200 Speaker 1: to Australia, and he is doing that, although the contract 193 00:10:17,320 --> 00:10:19,679 Speaker 1: is coming to an end and the company looking to 194 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 1: reemploy him and others, but they've got to stay with 195 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:23,760 Speaker 1: the company for x amount of time I think it's 196 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:27,040 Speaker 1: three years or so as part of their working visa. 197 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:31,199 Speaker 1: And in the meantime he's driving ubers because there was 198 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:33,160 Speaker 1: some sort of issue with the visa and he's afraid 199 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:35,440 Speaker 1: that might fall over. So he's got this job middle 200 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:37,760 Speaker 1: of the night driving ubers and a way he was going. 201 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:42,000 Speaker 1: But yeah, it's interesting we do bring in people with 202 00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:44,240 Speaker 1: skills and then don't employ them in the areas they're 203 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:46,920 Speaker 1: good at and you're right, they do end up driving ubers. 204 00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:50,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, So a close example that's the engineering. So 205 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 2: sixty percent of engineers in Australia a foreign born, right, 206 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:56,680 Speaker 2: so important lot, but half of the people with engineering 207 00:10:56,880 --> 00:10:59,840 Speaker 2: degrees in Australia are not working in engineering. They're working 208 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:03,160 Speaker 2: and they're either unemployed or underemployed in low skill jobs. 209 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:08,800 Speaker 2: And that is just you know, indicative of Australias migration system. 210 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:13,319 Speaker 2: We're bringing noodles of people and then they end up working. 211 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:15,839 Speaker 2: Most of the men are working in lower skilled jobs. 212 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:19,600 Speaker 2: And then that creates a housing crisis because we're growing 213 00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 2: the population so much faster than we can build houses, 214 00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:25,120 Speaker 2: and most of them they work in construction grades. And 215 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:27,079 Speaker 2: then you end up with you you end up with 216 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:31,280 Speaker 2: a rental crisis and the housing crisis, and you end 217 00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:33,360 Speaker 2: up with skill shortages because the people you brought in 218 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:36,760 Speaker 2: to build solve those skills shortages end up not solving 219 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:40,120 Speaker 2: the shortage. Does not work in the areas. And think 220 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 2: about this whole skill shortage argument. It's complete furfy. So 221 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 2: for example, week we could bring in half a million 222 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:48,920 Speaker 2: construction workers. We can import them to try and solve 223 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 2: the shortage of construction labor. And even if we could 224 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:55,160 Speaker 2: theoretically do that, those people would eat houses them then, 225 00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:57,800 Speaker 2: but then you create shortages in other areas because that 226 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:01,040 Speaker 2: half a million people you're bring in they need their kids, 227 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:05,199 Speaker 2: need teachers, they need hospital workers, because they will increase 228 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:07,720 Speaker 2: demand on healthcare, will increase demand on every other area 229 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:10,319 Speaker 2: of the economy, which then means you'll have shortages in 230 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:12,200 Speaker 2: those areas. So then the solution is to import people 231 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:14,240 Speaker 2: in those areas. And if you keep going around this circle, 232 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:18,800 Speaker 2: you end up back with shortages in construction again, because 233 00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 2: you just play whack a mile and all the exactly, 234 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:23,480 Speaker 2: and then every time you whack that mile, you then 235 00:12:23,559 --> 00:12:25,760 Speaker 2: create a shortage in another area because you've increased demanding 236 00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:26,160 Speaker 2: those areas. 237 00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:29,400 Speaker 1: Crazy Leaf. Great discussion. Thank you for your time this morning.