WEBVTT - The Media Show | 9 May 0:00:01.560 --> 0:00:06.560 Vice is the Media Show, with Jack outing Hello and 0:00:06.600 --> 0:00:09.480 welcome to the Media Show. Tonight we have the fallout 0:00:09.480 --> 0:00:12.120 from the federal election, and later on in the show 0:00:12.280 --> 0:00:15.920 we discuss CNN sitting down with cartel members in a 0:00:15.960 --> 0:00:19.520 wild attempt to humanize them. But first to the hush 0:00:19.600 --> 0:00:23.439 money scandal engulfing the Nine network amid revelations of witness 0:00:23.440 --> 0:00:26.920 and the Ben Roberts Smith defamation case, was paid seven 0:00:27.000 --> 0:00:31.840 hundred thousand dollars to stop her for publicly accusing Nine 0:00:31.840 --> 0:00:35.760 of having access to the soldier's privileged legal strategy. Now 0:00:35.800 --> 0:00:39.440 Shari Markson, who broke the story, also aired this development 0:00:39.520 --> 0:00:40.200 on Wednesday. 0:00:41.200 --> 0:00:44.879 Nine paid seven hundred thousand dollars hush money to silence 0:00:44.920 --> 0:00:48.560 a witness who threatened to telecot judge that the media 0:00:48.640 --> 0:00:52.839 company had been given unauthorized access to Ben Roberts Smith's 0:00:52.920 --> 0:00:56.959 emails during the war crimes trial. Well, tonight I can 0:00:57.000 --> 0:01:01.160 reveal that reported Nick mackenzie told this Weekness that she 0:01:01.400 --> 0:01:04.720 was causing him anxiety and he said he had to 0:01:04.800 --> 0:01:08.440 cut her off. This is a woman nineclaimed had been 0:01:08.440 --> 0:01:12.039 a victim of domestic violence, and they pressed her to 0:01:12.200 --> 0:01:14.760 testify for them against Robert Smith. 0:01:15.920 --> 0:01:19.440 And Somehow, this gets even stranger when you read Mackenzie's 0:01:19.520 --> 0:01:20.360 letter to the witness. 0:01:21.200 --> 0:01:25.240 In a formal letter that we've obtained, Mackenzie said he 0:01:25.400 --> 0:01:28.920 wasn't trying a victim blame, but said that her trauma 0:01:29.240 --> 0:01:33.679 had caused him anxiety. He wrote, I also want to 0:01:33.720 --> 0:01:37.600 explain why I no longer have contact with you due 0:01:37.640 --> 0:01:40.679 to the deep distress you suffered. You contacted me very 0:01:40.720 --> 0:01:43.679 often for a long time. I saw it as my 0:01:43.800 --> 0:01:47.400 job to try to manage your stress and trauma. It 0:01:47.480 --> 0:01:50.720 was very challenging. There were times I was so worried 0:01:50.760 --> 0:01:54.480 I notified your husband of concerns you might self harm. 0:01:55.720 --> 0:01:58.120 In time, I began to seek help about how to 0:01:58.200 --> 0:02:01.760 manage dealing with a victim survive. I'm not blaming you 0:02:01.840 --> 0:02:05.040 for a moment. I'm just explaining that it began to 0:02:05.080 --> 0:02:06.880 take a significant. 0:02:06.320 --> 0:02:06.840 Toll on me. 0:02:07.560 --> 0:02:09.800 Well, none of this is a great look for Nick McKenzie, 0:02:09.840 --> 0:02:13.320 whose ethics and cavalier methods of dealing with sources have 0:02:13.440 --> 0:02:17.400 been called into question during this sordid saga. Now, working 0:02:17.400 --> 0:02:20.040 a contact and building trust is one thing, but for 0:02:20.160 --> 0:02:25.440 nine to pay her to hide pertinent information is completely unacceptable, 0:02:26.000 --> 0:02:30.120 and this goes far beyond McKenzie because Nine won't answer 0:02:30.240 --> 0:02:33.520 questions on this, and they won't say who authorized the payment, 0:02:33.800 --> 0:02:37.160 whether the board knew, and whether the newly minted Channel 0:02:37.240 --> 0:02:40.960 nine chair Catherine West had personally signed off on the 0:02:41.000 --> 0:02:45.160 extremely large payment. For Nine to dodge questions on this 0:02:45.639 --> 0:02:48.800 is unethical and for an organization which sends people tough 0:02:48.880 --> 0:02:53.120 questions every single day, it is very problematic. Now Channel 0:02:53.120 --> 0:02:55.720 seven had the same thoughts, so they sent cameras to 0:02:55.760 --> 0:02:59.640 ask West in person, which created this damaging scene. 0:03:01.120 --> 0:03:04.080 So far, the chair of the nation's biggest media company, 0:03:04.200 --> 0:03:08.040 Nine Entertainments, Catherine West, continues to dodge the media. 0:03:08.120 --> 0:03:10.440 Did you sign off on the seven hundred thousand hush 0:03:10.480 --> 0:03:11.239 money payments? 0:03:11.680 --> 0:03:15.520 And it's clear now silence is nine strategy. 0:03:16.160 --> 0:03:19.640 Why would anyone respect this organization enough to answer questions 0:03:19.639 --> 0:03:20.040 from them? 0:03:20.120 --> 0:03:20.360 Ever? 0:03:20.480 --> 0:03:24.160 Again, the cowardly chair is completely in over her head 0:03:24.560 --> 0:03:27.680 and nine's large collection of newspapers and TV channels have 0:03:27.760 --> 0:03:30.800 run dead on this story. No mention that we could 0:03:30.800 --> 0:03:33.840 see of the hush money payment, and no coverage of 0:03:33.880 --> 0:03:37.720 an incompetent chair hiding from cameras and refusing to answer 0:03:37.760 --> 0:03:41.040 any questions. Now, keep in mind the City Morning Herald 0:03:41.080 --> 0:03:46.320 and the Age carry the OsO arrogant slogan independent always. 0:03:48.920 --> 0:03:49.080 Well. 0:03:49.160 --> 0:03:51.720 Joining me this week to discuss is managing editor at 0:03:51.720 --> 0:03:56.280 The Australian, Darren Davidson and two Double C host Stephen Senateempo. 0:03:56.760 --> 0:03:59.480 Thanks for joining me, gentlemen. Well Darren, why don't we 0:03:59.640 --> 0:04:03.480 start with you? Quite an incredible story and Shari Markson 0:04:03.480 --> 0:04:07.760 has done some brilliant, quite ferocious reporting on this Channel 0:04:07.840 --> 0:04:10.560 Nine seems to have an issue with its chairs when 0:04:10.560 --> 0:04:13.760 there's scrutiny, dodging some of those questions, and I know 0:04:13.840 --> 0:04:17.400 your newspaper has had a bit of history with that. 0:04:23.560 --> 0:04:27.200 We certainly have. This is I mean, it's turned into 0:04:27.200 --> 0:04:31.760 Australia's most expensive defamation trial and it's not journalism. It 0:04:31.800 --> 0:04:37.559 looks like it's you know, corporate crisis style management dressed 0:04:37.640 --> 0:04:39.960 up as kind of check book journalism. 0:04:40.640 --> 0:04:41.760 Great story by Shari. 0:04:41.960 --> 0:04:45.599 Well done to Shari for breaking this story. A very 0:04:45.680 --> 0:04:49.039 significant development. It's very embarrassing for nine. As you've said, 0:04:49.120 --> 0:04:51.839 they claim nitorial independence, but this kind of think sort 0:04:51.800 --> 0:04:55.159 of kind of legal interference and you know, allegedly it 0:04:55.160 --> 0:04:57.120 looks like they try to sort of rig this in 0:04:57.760 --> 0:05:00.320 the background somehow, I think The other point I would 0:05:00.360 --> 0:05:03.599 make is you mentioned there that the coverage from Channel 0:05:03.680 --> 0:05:07.640 nine has been a bit muted. I would probably say 0:05:07.640 --> 0:05:11.760 the same about the ABC. They haven't covered this, in 0:05:11.880 --> 0:05:15.440 my opinion, in the way that they probably should, And 0:05:15.720 --> 0:05:19.280 had this been Sky News or News Court, they would 0:05:19.279 --> 0:05:22.080 have been calling for a royal commission by lunchtime. And 0:05:22.160 --> 0:05:25.840 so it's but it's a very different approach when it's 0:05:25.880 --> 0:05:27.080 Channel nine for some reason. 0:05:27.720 --> 0:05:29.040 Yeah, it's a good point, Steven. 0:05:29.080 --> 0:05:31.840 Let's bring you in very awkward scenes I think for 0:05:31.960 --> 0:05:34.599 Kaftra and West when she's come out of her house 0:05:34.800 --> 0:05:36.960 and you know, for the record, this is something that 0:05:37.040 --> 0:05:41.400 her network does quite often. So my opinion fairs fair. 0:05:41.440 --> 0:05:43.280 If you're going to be the chair of that organization 0:05:43.680 --> 0:05:45.960 and you've got those kind of current affairs shows doing 0:05:46.000 --> 0:05:48.880 the same sort of thing. It's awfully different when you're 0:05:48.880 --> 0:05:50.800 on the other side of those cameras, though, isn't it. 0:05:52.720 --> 0:05:53.240 Yeah it is. 0:05:53.279 --> 0:05:55.479 Look, I'm on the record of saying I don't like 0:05:55.520 --> 0:05:57.919 this kind of journalism. I don't like the chasing people 0:05:57.920 --> 0:05:59.840 down the street stuff. I don't like it in Channel nine. 0:06:00.440 --> 0:06:02.120 I don't like it when people do to them. But 0:06:02.279 --> 0:06:05.320 you're right, you know if the shoe fits, wear it, 0:06:05.839 --> 0:06:08.279 But this is just a bad look in general. I mean, 0:06:08.680 --> 0:06:10.480 at what point do we get back to the stage 0:06:10.480 --> 0:06:12.839 where journalists tell the story in front of them, not 0:06:12.920 --> 0:06:15.200 the story they want to tell. Now, it's all well 0:06:15.240 --> 0:06:17.240 and good some of us, and I'm one of these people. 0:06:17.440 --> 0:06:19.599 My job is to tell people what I think about 0:06:19.600 --> 0:06:21.880 the news. But if you're going to report news, then 0:06:21.960 --> 0:06:24.560 report it straight down the line. Don't try and create 0:06:24.560 --> 0:06:27.520 a story around something that you've decided has to be 0:06:27.560 --> 0:06:29.760 delivered to the general public. Because that's what this sounds 0:06:29.839 --> 0:06:30.200 like now. 0:06:30.920 --> 0:06:32.000 It's just the way the. 0:06:31.960 --> 0:06:35.159 Media has treated some of our military personnel in recent 0:06:35.240 --> 0:06:38.000 years has been nothing short of appalling. And if Ben 0:06:38.080 --> 0:06:40.520 Robert Smith has done something wrong and has a case 0:06:40.560 --> 0:06:41.920 to answer, so be it. 0:06:42.240 --> 0:06:43.560 But that's to be played out. 0:06:43.400 --> 0:06:46.680 In criminal courts, not in the court of public opinion 0:06:46.720 --> 0:06:50.320 based on what a particular journalist or a particular news 0:06:50.320 --> 0:06:53.120 outlet wants to push as the agenda. And that's what 0:06:53.200 --> 0:06:54.400 really annoys me about this. 0:06:54.839 --> 0:06:57.120 Yeah, and I guess the other side to it as well, Darren, 0:06:57.200 --> 0:07:00.479 is it's not even just you know, telling one side 0:07:00.520 --> 0:07:04.160 of the story, it's paying someone so that one side 0:07:04.160 --> 0:07:08.000 of the story doesn't surface, and that brings a whole 0:07:08.080 --> 0:07:10.920 other ethical Now, yes, there is the legal implications, because 0:07:10.920 --> 0:07:13.800 I think the court probably would want to know that 0:07:13.880 --> 0:07:17.760 they allegedly had access to, or had the potential to 0:07:17.920 --> 0:07:24.480 access the Ben Roberts Smith legal legally privileged strategy. But 0:07:24.600 --> 0:07:28.240 then to pay someone so that that can't become public, 0:07:28.320 --> 0:07:29.679 that's a whole different game. 0:07:32.400 --> 0:07:33.040 Totally agree. 0:07:33.200 --> 0:07:35.760 It really does stink, and there are some big serious 0:07:35.840 --> 0:07:38.040 questions now that need to be answered by Channel nine. 0:07:38.080 --> 0:07:41.200 I mean, he signed off on that payment, who authorized it, 0:07:41.320 --> 0:07:43.040 and as you said at the beginning of the segment, 0:07:43.120 --> 0:07:45.600 I mean the char of Channel nine, Catherine West, she 0:07:45.680 --> 0:07:48.600 really does need to suffront this up and answer some 0:07:48.600 --> 0:07:52.120 big tough questions on this because the public and the 0:07:52.200 --> 0:07:55.720 Channel nine viewers and the Channel nine newspaper readers and 0:07:55.720 --> 0:07:59.720 subscribers that pay for that newspaper deserve to know completely. 0:07:59.800 --> 0:08:01.960 And it's one of those things it's how could she 0:08:02.080 --> 0:08:04.440 not have known? If she didn't, and if she did know, 0:08:04.640 --> 0:08:10.120 what's the explanation, what is the shareholder obligation there to 0:08:10.200 --> 0:08:12.400 talking about this sort of thing. But moving on now 0:08:12.440 --> 0:08:16.040 to the election fallout, which has become the ultimate Russhack test, 0:08:16.360 --> 0:08:19.560 where so called experts see exactly what they want to 0:08:19.880 --> 0:08:22.880 in the labor win. For labor loyalists, the thirty four 0:08:22.960 --> 0:08:25.880 percent primary was seen as a validation that they had 0:08:25.880 --> 0:08:27.280 won the culture wars. 0:08:28.400 --> 0:08:34.200 And from the oldest continuing civilization on that planet. And 0:08:34.400 --> 0:08:38.760 I acknowledge the traditional owners, and I. 0:08:38.720 --> 0:08:42.400 Acknowledge the traditional owners of the land on which we make, 0:08:49.120 --> 0:08:53.040 and I pay my respects to elders past, present and 0:08:53.160 --> 0:08:55.160 emerging today. 0:08:55.360 --> 0:08:58.439 And every day and on seven. 0:08:58.480 --> 0:09:01.360 It was Dutton's alleged links to Donald Trump that killed 0:09:01.360 --> 0:09:02.320 his political career. 0:09:03.320 --> 0:09:06.199 Links to Donald Trump cost him not only the federal 0:09:06.240 --> 0:09:08.040 election but his own seat. 0:09:09.200 --> 0:09:11.560 And for some wet blanket and the Liberal Party, the 0:09:11.640 --> 0:09:16.959 fault was with this network labeling us a puritanical litmus test. 0:09:17.880 --> 0:09:19.920 A couple of former colleagues of mine say, you just 0:09:19.960 --> 0:09:22.120 get what's on sky after dark quoted at you at 0:09:22.160 --> 0:09:22.760 branch meetings. 0:09:22.800 --> 0:09:23.600 Why aren't you doing this? 0:09:23.640 --> 0:09:25.719 So and so in certain name of commentator says we're 0:09:25.720 --> 0:09:28.000 not being hardline enough on ABC or D And the 0:09:28.040 --> 0:09:31.120 Liberal Party is going to have to learn that is 0:09:31.120 --> 0:09:34.440 not representative of where the electorate is and following down 0:09:34.480 --> 0:09:37.199 that path will not lead you to will not lead 0:09:37.240 --> 0:09:38.680 the Liberal Party to electoral success. 0:09:40.240 --> 0:09:43.080 Maybe, but I think right now that out network, which 0:09:43.120 --> 0:09:46.840 reaches millions and millions of Australians every single month, is 0:09:46.880 --> 0:09:51.520 a tad more representative of Australia than your dying political party, 0:09:51.679 --> 0:09:54.840 Scott Ryan. And the mistake that Scott Ryan makes is 0:09:54.840 --> 0:09:59.000 a common one. Journalists are not there to sycophantically support 0:09:59.040 --> 0:10:02.040 political parties. I'm proud of the fact that we point 0:10:02.080 --> 0:10:06.120 out policy absurdities within the opposition which made it an 0:10:06.200 --> 0:10:10.160 impotent nothing option to voters. And I'd challenge Ryan or 0:10:10.200 --> 0:10:13.760 any expert to name these so called right wing policies 0:10:13.800 --> 0:10:16.520 that Sky News forced the Liberals to take to the election. 0:10:17.240 --> 0:10:17.440 Mean. 0:10:17.520 --> 0:10:20.400 Was it slightly cheaper petrol is filling up your car 0:10:20.480 --> 0:10:24.240 now an activityological resistance? Was it right wing to propose 0:10:24.280 --> 0:10:27.440 giving a one off, one two hundred dollars tax offset 0:10:27.640 --> 0:10:30.920 to low and middlecome income earners, or was it the 0:10:30.920 --> 0:10:35.280 proposition that Australian should pay a higher personal income tax now? 0:10:35.400 --> 0:10:39.120 None of those headline policies seem inherently conservative or right 0:10:39.160 --> 0:10:41.800 wing to me, and you can see how absurd this 0:10:41.840 --> 0:10:44.800 whole debate has truly become. People see in it what 0:10:44.920 --> 0:10:48.000 they want to see. And it is hilarious that anyone 0:10:48.000 --> 0:10:50.679 at the Liberal Party would blame the media for their 0:10:50.800 --> 0:10:53.880 humiliating loss when this is the sort of advertising they 0:10:53.920 --> 0:10:54.839 were running at the time. 0:10:55.920 --> 0:10:56.839 Please vote for. 0:10:56.840 --> 0:11:00.400 Me, screamed Dame bard Albanesi in a desperate attempt Clutcher 0:11:00.480 --> 0:11:02.840 dub in the last four days of the Fortnite election. 0:11:03.040 --> 0:11:05.680 Despite his best efforts to cap his way to victory, 0:11:05.840 --> 0:11:08.280 the players in the lobby knew his time was for 0:11:08.360 --> 0:11:10.920 the last three seasons of an easy at promised the 0:11:11.040 --> 0:11:13.480 cheaper item shop, but the price for the battle pass 0:11:13.559 --> 0:11:16.360 kept rising and causing many players to crash out. The 0:11:16.440 --> 0:11:19.000 rage continue this album as he hosted a mini event 0:11:19.040 --> 0:11:21.480 on the island where he spent four hundred and fifty 0:11:21.480 --> 0:11:24.680 million taxpayer v bucks on a voice referendum. And now 0:11:24.720 --> 0:11:27.280 with the storm closing in, the choice is clear, a 0:11:27.400 --> 0:11:29.720 capping default or duntan who will clutch up and get 0:11:29.720 --> 0:11:31.120 the dub for ossis. 0:11:32.280 --> 0:11:32.480 Well. 0:11:32.520 --> 0:11:34.800 As I said last week, if you publish that sort 0:11:34.840 --> 0:11:38.280 of garbage, you deserve to lose everything. And it has 0:11:38.320 --> 0:11:45.600 absolutely nothing to do with ideology. Well, Steven, let's bring 0:11:45.640 --> 0:11:49.000 you in here, really interesting debate. I think that's breaking 0:11:49.040 --> 0:11:51.319 out in the media, and I use example of a 0:11:51.400 --> 0:11:55.520 rawshacked test because what I'm seeing is everybody, for their 0:11:55.559 --> 0:11:59.839 own game, is dissecting this loss with the prone spin 0:11:59.880 --> 0:12:02.200 for their own narrative. So the left is looking at 0:12:02.200 --> 0:12:04.040 it through the prism of how the left does, and 0:12:04.080 --> 0:12:07.480 then conservatives are looking at it through that lens. But 0:12:07.600 --> 0:12:11.840 in reality, it was just a poorly run election and 0:12:12.200 --> 0:12:16.000 the advertising was terrible. There's all these other features that 0:12:16.080 --> 0:12:17.640 I think the media is missing. 0:12:17.679 --> 0:12:21.240 What's your take, though, Yeah, I think you're right. 0:12:21.280 --> 0:12:24.440 Well, look, there's a bit to unpack at her that 0:12:24.480 --> 0:12:27.320 the media is no doubt complicit in some of the 0:12:27.320 --> 0:12:30.679 way this election campaign went. But you can only, as 0:12:30.720 --> 0:12:32.480 I was talking about with the Channel nine story, you 0:12:32.520 --> 0:12:35.440 can only report what's in front of you. And when 0:12:35.440 --> 0:12:37.319 you talk about I think we're going to stop using 0:12:37.360 --> 0:12:39.960 the words conservative and progressive altogether because it's pretty clear 0:12:40.040 --> 0:12:44.360 nobody understands what they mean anymore, and particularly people on 0:12:44.360 --> 0:12:46.880 the conservative side who think they're conservative and they're not. 0:12:46.920 --> 0:12:49.320 They're a right lunatics in a lot of cases. But 0:12:49.960 --> 0:12:52.200 the reality is that what went wrong here was the 0:12:52.200 --> 0:12:55.079 Liberal Party didn't have a platform and they didn't prosecute 0:12:55.080 --> 0:12:57.000 what little platform they did have. And then when the 0:12:57.080 --> 0:13:00.640 Labor Party came out and used a scare campaigneries of lies, 0:13:00.640 --> 0:13:03.880 they didn't call them out. And speaking of blaming the media, here, 0:13:03.920 --> 0:13:05.920 I saw David Little proud do that saying, well, why 0:13:05.920 --> 0:13:08.280 aren't you calling out the lies? And my question is 0:13:08.400 --> 0:13:10.880 why aren't you calling out the lies? You know, at 0:13:10.920 --> 0:13:14.200 some point somebody's got to take responsibility for their own actions, 0:13:14.200 --> 0:13:17.319 and whether that's us in the media or the politicians themselves, 0:13:17.440 --> 0:13:21.280 we're all responsible for our own actions. So look, it's 0:13:21.320 --> 0:13:23.720 a very very big problem. Yes, the media is part 0:13:23.760 --> 0:13:26.319 of the problem. Yes, some people on Sky are part 0:13:26.320 --> 0:13:28.560 of the problem. I'm happy to admit that too. But 0:13:28.880 --> 0:13:31.079 at the end of the day, as you say, and look, 0:13:31.080 --> 0:13:33.200 and I don't buy into the liberal parties dying. I 0:13:33.200 --> 0:13:35.360 think the pendulum will swing back the other way because 0:13:35.520 --> 0:13:37.640 Labor only got thirty four percent of the primary vote. 0:13:37.679 --> 0:13:39.720 And I was only looking at the seat count earlier 0:13:39.720 --> 0:13:42.760 this morning, and there's probably twenty six seats that are 0:13:42.760 --> 0:13:45.280 in striking distance at the next election. Now that's not 0:13:45.400 --> 0:13:48.400 enough to get the coalition back into power, but it's 0:13:48.440 --> 0:13:50.520 going to make it a very very different situation. But 0:13:50.840 --> 0:13:54.560 we need to start calling out talking about facts rather 0:13:54.640 --> 0:13:58.760 than just trying to push our own, whether they're ideological, philosophical, 0:13:58.960 --> 0:14:02.000 or per and the legenders, because that's what's happened all 0:14:02.000 --> 0:14:05.120 the way through this campaign, not only from media commentators 0:14:05.120 --> 0:14:08.199 but also from the politicians themselves about how bad they 0:14:08.720 --> 0:14:10.840 handled their own part of the problem. 0:14:11.200 --> 0:14:13.640 Yeah, and look, I guess when I say that it's dying, 0:14:14.360 --> 0:14:16.880 I'm saying it's dead for three to six years, and 0:14:16.920 --> 0:14:20.120 it is dead. They can't do anything, they can't block anything. 0:14:20.280 --> 0:14:22.600 They're going to have to rethink their policy platform. 0:14:23.280 --> 0:14:23.560 Darren. 0:14:23.640 --> 0:14:25.600 One of the points that I find it hilarious, you know, 0:14:25.640 --> 0:14:28.720 the likes of you know, Amy Ramikus, who's now kind 0:14:28.760 --> 0:14:31.600 of a lobbyist in her own way writing for the 0:14:31.600 --> 0:14:34.800 new Daily blaming Sky News. I'm struggling to figure out 0:14:34.800 --> 0:14:38.360 what these evil right wing policies are that Dutton took 0:14:38.440 --> 0:14:39.040 to the election. 0:14:39.200 --> 0:14:40.120 I can't think of one. 0:14:40.600 --> 0:14:43.640 I can maybe see some credence in nuclear but if 0:14:43.680 --> 0:14:47.200 you look globally, that doesn't seem to be an ideological issue. 0:14:47.240 --> 0:14:49.800 It just seems to be a mechanical and engineering issue. 0:14:50.200 --> 0:14:54.320 Can you think of anything that these journalists are correct 0:14:54.360 --> 0:14:57.320 in that it was this left v right contest. 0:14:59.360 --> 0:15:01.720 No, look, I agree with what you've said there. I 0:15:01.760 --> 0:15:05.240 sort of slightly agree with disagree with Steve and I 0:15:05.360 --> 0:15:08.080 you didn't come up with those rubbish policies around tax 0:15:08.160 --> 0:15:11.360 and fuel that the Liberals were running that failed to 0:15:11.440 --> 0:15:15.680 gain any traction. I think Stephen is right about the seats. 0:15:16.440 --> 0:15:18.320 I mean they were helped by the Greens as well 0:15:18.320 --> 0:15:21.560 and the collapse of that party Labor. I think the 0:15:21.600 --> 0:15:26.240 Trump factor is massively overstated. Personally, I think the Liberals 0:15:26.400 --> 0:15:33.000 campaign was badly conceived, badly executed. I don't think Labour 0:15:33.040 --> 0:15:35.320 did win the culture War. I think the Liberals just 0:15:35.440 --> 0:15:38.000 failed to kind of contest it with any real conviction 0:15:38.480 --> 0:15:41.600 and stay true to their values and the broad Church. 0:15:41.920 --> 0:15:44.240 As Paul Kelly wrote in The Australian this week, brilliant 0:15:44.240 --> 0:15:46.320 piece and brilliant video as well, if if you've got 0:15:46.320 --> 0:15:47.720 a moment to watch that. I think he summed it 0:15:47.800 --> 0:15:51.960 up quite well and ultimately Labor didn't you know, their 0:15:52.000 --> 0:15:55.160 campaign was scarcely brilliant and Alberniz he has hardly got 0:15:55.200 --> 0:15:58.280 the charisma of Bob Porp, So you know, I think 0:15:58.320 --> 0:16:00.400 there's a lot of post Wartem stuff going on here. 0:16:00.400 --> 0:16:03.720 That's not quite right, but I certainly don't believe that 0:16:03.760 --> 0:16:05.560 made the media is to blame. It's funny how it's 0:16:05.640 --> 0:16:09.120 you know, the failing MPs always blame the media and 0:16:09.120 --> 0:16:13.760 not themselves, and I think pine Lange media did pretty 0:16:13.800 --> 0:16:16.560 good job of covering what was a challenging election and 0:16:16.880 --> 0:16:19.600 at times a slightly uninspired election as well. 0:16:20.240 --> 0:16:22.640 Yeah, well hang on, can I got to cut in 0:16:22.680 --> 0:16:24.680 there because I mean we saw, you know, questions asked 0:16:24.680 --> 0:16:27.200 of the Prime Minister about his football team, about it, 0:16:27.280 --> 0:16:29.280 you know, whether or how much Veggie might he puts 0:16:29.280 --> 0:16:31.560 on his toast, these kind of things. The media is 0:16:31.560 --> 0:16:33.840 complicit in that when there were fair income questions that 0:16:33.920 --> 0:16:35.720 needed to be asked, there was a lot of very 0:16:35.800 --> 0:16:38.040 very soft press conferences that the Prime Minister got to 0:16:38.040 --> 0:16:41.240 stand in front of. Peter Dutton didn't get that same opportunity. 0:16:41.320 --> 0:16:43.640 So in that case, we do need to we need 0:16:43.680 --> 0:16:45.480 to take a look at a hard look at ourselves 0:16:45.480 --> 0:16:47.400 for not calling out a lot of this stuff when 0:16:47.440 --> 0:16:47.920 it happened. 0:16:48.000 --> 0:16:49.840 Stephen Darren, thank you so much for your time and 0:16:49.880 --> 0:16:52.440 your insights. I really appreciate it. We're going to take 0:16:52.480 --> 0:16:55.400 a quick break, but up next, Bernie Sanders defends his 0:16:55.560 --> 0:16:59.200 use of a private jet to campaign against the rich 0:16:59.600 --> 0:17:02.600 and see and then sits down with the Mexican cartel 0:17:02.880 --> 0:17:13.719 in a wild interview. Welcome to Stars and Gripes, and 0:17:13.920 --> 0:17:16.280 Joe Biden is back in the media, this time sitting 0:17:16.320 --> 0:17:19.240 down with the BBC to remind the world just how 0:17:19.280 --> 0:17:20.280 successful he was. 0:17:21.280 --> 0:17:25.600 Did you leave it too late? Should you have withdrawn earlier? 0:17:25.720 --> 0:17:27.240 Given someone else a big a job? 0:17:27.400 --> 0:17:33.080 I don't think it would have mattered and become so 0:17:33.200 --> 0:17:36.280 successful our agenda. It was hard to say now I'm 0:17:36.280 --> 0:17:39.840 going to stop now. Things move so quickly that it 0:17:39.840 --> 0:17:45.440 made it difficult to walk away ticket. And it was a. 0:17:47.760 --> 0:17:52.000 It was a hard decision, but regrets. 0:17:53.280 --> 0:17:53.480 No. 0:17:53.760 --> 0:17:56.400 I think it was the right decision. I think that 0:17:58.160 --> 0:18:03.880 the well, it was just a difficult decision. 0:18:05.119 --> 0:18:08.440 Biden struggled in this interview, but I genuinely believe he 0:18:08.560 --> 0:18:12.280 thinks the campaign was going well up until that infamous debate. 0:18:12.920 --> 0:18:16.359 That's because journalists and his own team told him it 0:18:16.440 --> 0:18:19.640 was going well. There was a collective lie being told, 0:18:19.680 --> 0:18:23.119 and it didn't disappear until these journalists realized it was 0:18:23.160 --> 0:18:26.639 no longer advantageous to lie, and that must really have 0:18:26.760 --> 0:18:31.680 confused Biden. When the entire machine turned on him overnight. Well, 0:18:31.800 --> 0:18:33.800 joining me now for more on this is author and 0:18:33.800 --> 0:18:37.800 commentator Shamika. Michelle Shamika, thank you so much for joining 0:18:37.840 --> 0:18:41.360 me for your first time on this show. Really interesting 0:18:41.400 --> 0:18:44.280 interview with the BBC, and obviously we saw the same 0:18:44.359 --> 0:18:47.520 hallmarks of a Joe Biden who was a bit sluggish 0:18:47.520 --> 0:18:50.800 and not quite there. But as we played in that clip, 0:18:50.800 --> 0:18:53.879 the thing that was really interesting was that he seemed 0:18:53.880 --> 0:18:57.119 to think everything was going well up until it wasn't. 0:18:59.280 --> 0:19:02.320 Yes, it was hilarious, by the way, thanks for having 0:19:02.359 --> 0:19:05.359 me on. I thought it was hilarious when he said 0:19:05.400 --> 0:19:08.560 it was hard to walk away. Well, we know it 0:19:08.600 --> 0:19:11.000 was hard for him to walk away because we saw 0:19:11.080 --> 0:19:14.920 how much he fell. You know, I think that Joe 0:19:14.960 --> 0:19:18.440 Biden should really just take this time out to retire. 0:19:18.880 --> 0:19:23.440 The fact that he actually believes things were going well 0:19:24.000 --> 0:19:28.840 at any point just shows us that he's not quite 0:19:29.000 --> 0:19:29.639 with us. 0:19:29.760 --> 0:19:31.520 He's not completely. 0:19:31.000 --> 0:19:34.440 There, and it's really sad that they're continuing to put 0:19:34.520 --> 0:19:37.639 him in front of the camera. Listen, He's served his time. 0:19:38.080 --> 0:19:42.720 He was in political office for decades. It's time for 0:19:42.840 --> 0:19:46.800 him to just rest and relax and stop having to 0:19:46.920 --> 0:19:50.919 go through the daily grind of being the so called, 0:19:51.040 --> 0:19:54.640 you know, former president. It's time for Joe to relax 0:19:54.720 --> 0:19:57.600 because this isn't looking good. A lot of us here 0:19:57.680 --> 0:20:01.280 believe that his wife is behind all of this, doctor 0:20:01.400 --> 0:20:05.000 Gill Biden, and she constantly keeps putting him in front 0:20:05.040 --> 0:20:05.720 of the camera. 0:20:06.359 --> 0:20:07.760 It is not a good look. 0:20:07.920 --> 0:20:12.080 And we saw exactly what happened on the stage when 0:20:12.119 --> 0:20:14.879 he had to debate Trump, and they could no longer 0:20:15.000 --> 0:20:18.199 hide it anymore. They continue to try and lie to 0:20:18.280 --> 0:20:21.920 the American people until they just couldn't lie. 0:20:21.960 --> 0:20:24.000 Anymore, well said. 0:20:24.320 --> 0:20:28.080 Moving on Champagne, socialist Bernie Sanders has given an awkward 0:20:28.119 --> 0:20:31.399 interview to Fox News. Now he's doing this stunt called 0:20:31.720 --> 0:20:35.760 fighting Oligaky, which is essentially him flying around America on 0:20:35.840 --> 0:20:38.960 a private jet to protest to the rich and what 0:20:39.080 --> 0:20:40.880 he calls the corporate oligaky. 0:20:42.160 --> 0:20:44.680 Whence the last time you saw Donald Trump during a 0:20:44.800 --> 0:20:47.520 campaign mode at National Airport? 0:20:47.760 --> 0:20:50.439 No, no, no, it doesn't. But he's also not fighting 0:20:50.440 --> 0:20:51.159 the oligarchy. 0:20:51.480 --> 0:20:51.520 No. 0:20:52.240 --> 0:20:54.399 And you run a campaign and you do three or 0:20:54.400 --> 0:20:57.160 four or five rallies in a week, the only way 0:20:57.160 --> 0:20:59.200 you can go around to talk to thirty thousand people, 0:20:59.320 --> 0:21:01.119 think I'm going to be sitting on a wedding line 0:21:01.200 --> 0:21:04.400