1 00:00:00,600 --> 00:00:02,760 Speaker 1: I'll get our team. It's the project that you. It's Kelly, 2 00:00:02,840 --> 00:00:05,560 Speaker 1: Kelly Smith, Tiffany and Cook. Kelly. How are you. 3 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:08,319 Speaker 2: I'm good, I'm good. Thank you. Nice to see you both. 4 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,680 Speaker 1: Nice to be seen. What's going on over at Smith Central? 5 00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:16,840 Speaker 2: Smith Central? Well, look, work is ramping up. It's the 6 00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:18,800 Speaker 2: end of the year, so there's lots of things going 7 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:23,720 Speaker 2: on there, and I've been doing homework. I've prepared for 8 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:26,600 Speaker 2: today's episode, which is a bit unusual for me. I'm 9 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:31,120 Speaker 2: not just relying on overthinking. I jotted a few things 10 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:31,320 Speaker 2: to have. 11 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:36,080 Speaker 1: Well, look at you like a bloody prep gangster, just 12 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:39,760 Speaker 1: getting ready with the Imagine if you'd spent all that 13 00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:42,040 Speaker 1: time writing out your questions and they were no good. 14 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:45,920 Speaker 2: Look, there's still that possibility. I haven't read them to 15 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:46,360 Speaker 2: you yet. 16 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:49,560 Speaker 1: I'm sure they're brilliant. I'm sure they're brilliant. Before we 17 00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:51,800 Speaker 1: jump in, how have you been watch news on Planet You? 18 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:54,400 Speaker 1: I saw you the other day. You walked into the 19 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:57,200 Speaker 1: cafe I was in. You look like a bloody you 20 00:00:57,240 --> 00:00:58,800 Speaker 1: know what you look like, and I mean this is 21 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:02,880 Speaker 1: a compliment. You look like like about a fifteen year 22 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:05,640 Speaker 1: old boy who was about to go and do graffiti 23 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:08,960 Speaker 1: somewhere that's kind of what you look like. I was 24 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:09,760 Speaker 1: beaming for that. 25 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:12,560 Speaker 2: So I'm glad I hit. I'm glad I nailed it. Absolutely. 26 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:16,399 Speaker 1: I don't mean I don't mean you because obviously a woman, 27 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:19,119 Speaker 1: but it just the outfit. It was like very cool. 28 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:22,480 Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, had that kind of street vibe about it. 29 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:23,560 Speaker 1: So well done you. 30 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 2: Thanks. I won't tag offense now, So that's all thank you. 31 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:33,480 Speaker 1: All right, Well, let's let's start. What do you got 32 00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:36,440 Speaker 1: for me? What have you been thinking about? What's what's 33 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:41,279 Speaker 1: what's been kind of cart wheeling around that brain of yours? 34 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 2: Well, this is from a few episodes that I've been 35 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:47,960 Speaker 2: listening to of yours, and I thought, how do I 36 00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:51,960 Speaker 2: kind of group these questions together? So there's three questions 37 00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 2: all up, and I kind of thought of them as 38 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:58,520 Speaker 2: being like the in between bits of a growth journey. 39 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:03,120 Speaker 2: And what I've been noticing in the podcast that I 40 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:04,960 Speaker 2: listened to, and I think you touched on this last 41 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:08,800 Speaker 2: week when you were talking to Ian, how it's either 42 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:12,520 Speaker 2: a kind of hey, welcome, you know, here's where you start, 43 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:16,440 Speaker 2: Here's how you take the first step of developing, of learning, 44 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:19,960 Speaker 2: of growing, or it's like Hey, here's a textbook. There's 45 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 2: no kind of in between of hey, you're progressing, this 46 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:26,519 Speaker 2: is what happens at X point, this is what happens 47 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:31,960 Speaker 2: after this, And so kind of lumped in with that is, well, 48 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:34,920 Speaker 2: what happens when you get to a point of I'm 49 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:38,240 Speaker 2: ready to release a certain part of my life. I'm 50 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:41,320 Speaker 2: ready to give up something that's not aligning with me. 51 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:47,080 Speaker 2: Is it normal to feel loss, sadness, potentially grief. 52 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:48,239 Speaker 1: Yes? 53 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 2: And then from that point, how do you get to 54 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:54,120 Speaker 2: and this comes from your episode where you were talking 55 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 2: about your shit week, how do you kind of stop? 56 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 2: I guess the wind in your sales enough to go? 57 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:04,360 Speaker 2: How am I able to be the best version of 58 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:05,800 Speaker 2: myself for the people around me? 59 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 1: Wow? There's a lot in that. So I'm just going 60 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 1: to tackle bits at a time. I'm sure I'll forget 61 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:15,520 Speaker 1: some of it, but so bring me back. So when 62 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:21,760 Speaker 1: you said learning, I'm thinking about, like I say to people, 63 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:25,040 Speaker 1: what do you mean by learning? Because there's going to 64 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:31,800 Speaker 1: school and memorizing stuff that you never use. Maybe that's learning, 65 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:35,440 Speaker 1: but to me, it's really just memorizing shit you never use, 66 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:39,480 Speaker 1: you know. So I've got to like, once I learn 67 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:41,840 Speaker 1: something if I have to study something for a test, 68 00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:48,120 Speaker 1: I almost never need to use it again. But I 69 00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 1: also never really forget it. So I can tell you, 70 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:54,560 Speaker 1: like the five adductor muscles that are inside the FEMA, right, 71 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 1: which nobody accept me in Australia nose off by heart 72 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:01,160 Speaker 1: and you'll never that's not true. I'm sure there are 73 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 1: a bunch of people, but not too many. Right, all 74 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 1: of these things that I learned for exams and tests 75 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 1: and stuff. Where I that you go, is that is 76 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:11,040 Speaker 1: that going to help me navigate life? Or is that 77 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 1: going to help me grow a learn or evolve or adapt? 78 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 1: Is that that kind of it's really just almost downloading knowledge. 79 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:21,520 Speaker 1: But for me, learning is growth. For me, learning has changed. 80 00:04:21,560 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 1: For me, learning is adapting, it's it's evolution, it's transformab 81 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:33,359 Speaker 1: that's learning. That's and so I think I think that 82 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:39,560 Speaker 1: probably academic learning is held into high a regard. I 83 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:44,479 Speaker 1: think it's on this kind of almost this egotistical pedestal 84 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 1: of which sounds funny for bloke doing a PhD. By 85 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 1: the way, if you've done a PhD, well done. I 86 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:53,400 Speaker 1: think it's a great achievement. I think getting any qualification 87 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 1: or degree or diploma is a great achievement. I'm not 88 00:04:56,000 --> 00:05:00,679 Speaker 1: saying these are not good. But we all know people 89 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:03,480 Speaker 1: who are fucking brilliant who finished school at year nine 90 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 1: or ten, who have incredible knowledge and wisdom and intelligence 91 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:16,840 Speaker 1: and insight and understanding, who maybe couldn't even explain it 92 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 1: to you in an academics or a scientific kind of sense, 93 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:26,159 Speaker 1: but they know the answers to question. They can solve 94 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 1: problems in real time. You know, they can build rapport 95 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:32,479 Speaker 1: and connection and trust and respect with people despite the 96 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:36,720 Speaker 1: fact that they've never studied human behavior per se. They've 97 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:41,120 Speaker 1: never studied communication or metaaccuracy or metaperception like I have. 98 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:44,839 Speaker 1: They but they're just fucking great at reading the room. 99 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 1: They're great at reading people. And that's partly a skill 100 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:51,960 Speaker 1: and partly a gift, and partly something that they've developed 101 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:57,159 Speaker 1: over time. So and what I found interesting about Ian was, 102 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:00,160 Speaker 1: and I have an interesting factoid that I can share 103 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:03,520 Speaker 1: with you about him, because he was explaining to me 104 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 1: this whole kind of paradigm that he's operating within, and 105 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:11,200 Speaker 1: that he's developed this model for working with primarily men 106 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 1: and then down the track women around mental health, and 107 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:17,320 Speaker 1: everything that he said was really smart, really evolved and 108 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:22,760 Speaker 1: really aware and really informed. And this doesn't matter at all. 109 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 1: But he doesn't have any in inverted commas qualifications in 110 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:33,040 Speaker 1: that space, which just proves that. You know, now, that 111 00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:35,960 Speaker 1: doesn't prove that being qualified in that space is redundant 112 00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 1: or not good. It doesn't mean that at all. It 113 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:41,359 Speaker 1: just means that there are people out there who have 114 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:46,400 Speaker 1: got actually great insight, knowledge and awareness who can probably 115 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:50,920 Speaker 1: help people even with psychological and emotional issues, who aren't 116 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:56,279 Speaker 1: in inverted commas qualified. And I just think qualifications are nice, 117 00:06:57,360 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 1: but don't think that that means that somebody that doesn't 118 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:06,560 Speaker 1: have a qualification in that particular field doesn't have insight 119 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:10,720 Speaker 1: or wisdom regarding that particular area of human behavior or 120 00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:14,440 Speaker 1: performance or whatever it is. I will tell you something 121 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:17,520 Speaker 1: interesting about him, and you wouldn't pick this up by 122 00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:22,760 Speaker 1: listening to it. His dad when we recorded that was 123 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 1: dying and he was finishing the podcast and going to 124 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:30,280 Speaker 1: the airport to get on a plane. I haven't spoken 125 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:33,320 Speaker 1: to him since. I'm talking to him tomorrow the next 126 00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 1: day I'm doing his show, So I don't know what 127 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:38,600 Speaker 1: the outcome was because I gave him some space, But 128 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:43,080 Speaker 1: like his dad was literally at death's door when we 129 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:47,000 Speaker 1: were recording that, and I went, wow, this is somebody 130 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:51,040 Speaker 1: walking their talk, you know. And he wasn't disconnected and 131 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:55,240 Speaker 1: he wasn't pretending it wasn't happening, and it was fully aware, 132 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:58,800 Speaker 1: but just and I gave I said, mate, let's not 133 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:01,840 Speaker 1: do it. Let's like we'd do it another day. Like 134 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:06,120 Speaker 1: it's like, well, I have this time, so let's do it, 135 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:09,800 Speaker 1: you know. So yeah, I found him very impressive. Sorry, 136 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:12,000 Speaker 1: I feel like I didn't answer some of your question. 137 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:14,360 Speaker 2: No, And I think that's good though, because and he 138 00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:16,600 Speaker 2: was he was really impressive. And you know, I messaged 139 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:19,360 Speaker 2: you and said, you know, even though his content was 140 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:21,640 Speaker 2: more aimed at dudes, like I got so much out 141 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:25,200 Speaker 2: of it. And I think that really goes to what 142 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:28,720 Speaker 2: I was asking about, like the in between. So you 143 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:32,240 Speaker 2: don't necessarily have to be, as you say, qualified in something, 144 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:36,280 Speaker 2: but there does seem to be a gap in is 145 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 2: it content or what people are sharing in terms of 146 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:42,720 Speaker 2: it feels like you either need to be at the 147 00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:45,840 Speaker 2: beginning or so far down towards the end of a 148 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:51,600 Speaker 2: growth process that the middle part is almost overlooked. And 149 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:55,360 Speaker 2: with what you just said about him, like that's absolutely 150 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 2: you know, being able to kind of stop and go, well, 151 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 2: how can I be the best version of me for 152 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:04,200 Speaker 2: who needs me? Which is the other point that you 153 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:07,240 Speaker 2: were talking about as well. So yeah, that answered it. 154 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:11,319 Speaker 1: I mean, like, I never say I'm good at anything, 155 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 1: because I'm not naturally you know, everyone's heard me bang 156 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:17,559 Speaker 1: on about what a shit athlete I was, and how 157 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:21,000 Speaker 1: genetically gifted I wasn't, and how academically brilliant I wasn't, 158 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:22,920 Speaker 1: and all of that. But the one thing that I 159 00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:26,120 Speaker 1: was naturally quite good at, there's only one, and that 160 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:29,480 Speaker 1: was what I'm doing right now, which is communication, you know, 161 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:33,040 Speaker 1: And that's a pretty good thing to be naturally gifted at. 162 00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:37,280 Speaker 1: But I remember doing things as a kid where I 163 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:39,839 Speaker 1: had no idea of what I would like. I didn't 164 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:42,120 Speaker 1: have a strategy, I didn't have any I didn't have 165 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:44,920 Speaker 1: any rationale behind what I was doing. Nobody had taught 166 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:49,120 Speaker 1: me or coached me. I wasn't educated in building rapport, connection, trust, 167 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:54,200 Speaker 1: you know, communicating effectively, reading the room, understanding anything about 168 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:57,720 Speaker 1: theory of mind, how someone else is thinking, understanding the 169 00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:00,960 Speaker 1: context of objective and subjective. I didn't even know what 170 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:04,800 Speaker 1: those fucking terms were, but I was operating with that 171 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:10,880 Speaker 1: awareness and that kind of understanding before I'd done one 172 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:15,120 Speaker 1: second of research or study in the field of psychology, 173 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:19,880 Speaker 1: you know. So I definitely think that we you know, 174 00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:22,079 Speaker 1: we all have different gifts and we all have different 175 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 1: kinds of intelligence. There are some people who go to 176 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:28,720 Speaker 1: art school for ten years and their art is you know, 177 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:31,320 Speaker 1: six out of ten. And then there are some people 178 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:34,920 Speaker 1: like my dad, who won multiple art shows, never got 179 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:38,480 Speaker 1: taught anything in his life, never had a lesson, and 180 00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:41,760 Speaker 1: would paint a picture of for example, tiff and it 181 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:46,000 Speaker 1: would look like a fucking photograph. I'm like, how do 182 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:49,319 Speaker 1: you do that? And seescapes and landscapes and animals and 183 00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:54,760 Speaker 1: so his stuff was very realistic, not surrealism, and not abstract. 184 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:58,320 Speaker 1: But nobody ever taught him or trained him, but he 185 00:10:58,440 --> 00:11:04,360 Speaker 1: just had this kind of intelligence, this creative intelligence. So yeah, 186 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:08,560 Speaker 1: I think both. I think acquiring knowledge and just putting 187 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:11,439 Speaker 1: it in your cognitive kind of filing cabinet and then 188 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:15,720 Speaker 1: not using it. I don't know, I don't really see 189 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:20,880 Speaker 1: that as learning. I see that as just downloading, you know, data, 190 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:23,400 Speaker 1: and I don't see the value in that. I don't 191 00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:28,400 Speaker 1: see the value in knowing things that you don't operationalize 192 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:31,840 Speaker 1: or you don't use in some way like what's the 193 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:36,600 Speaker 1: point you know? I mean, yeah, maybe maybe, but in 194 00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:38,600 Speaker 1: general terms, I want to learn things that are going 195 00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:42,079 Speaker 1: to help me do better, create better, serve people better, 196 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:44,040 Speaker 1: navigate life better. You know? 197 00:11:44,679 --> 00:11:47,640 Speaker 2: Yeah? Do you? And this is the question for both 198 00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:50,960 Speaker 2: of you in terms of that, like do you find 199 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:55,160 Speaker 2: that with what it is that you either listen to, read, 200 00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:58,400 Speaker 2: whatch or engage with? Like do you dip in and 201 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:01,560 Speaker 2: out when it's not serving that purpose for you? Like 202 00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:05,319 Speaker 2: I find I can be on a streak with certain 203 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:09,680 Speaker 2: podcasts or books or something and then just kind of go, oh, yeah, 204 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:12,319 Speaker 2: this is it's I need. Like a few weeks ago, 205 00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:14,439 Speaker 2: I thought I need something I can just laugh at 206 00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:16,440 Speaker 2: because this is all getting a bit deep and a 207 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:19,679 Speaker 2: bit too a bit too brainy. So yeah, do you 208 00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:20,320 Speaker 2: guys find that? 209 00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:25,360 Speaker 1: Yeah? I mean I've said many times I listen to Rogan, 210 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:28,200 Speaker 1: and I've listened to Rogan since before I started a show, right, 211 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:30,680 Speaker 1: So I listened to Rogan when he had very very 212 00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:34,840 Speaker 1: few listeners. And you know, some of his guests like 213 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:36,960 Speaker 1: my fire and some don't. It's not that it's not 214 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:40,600 Speaker 1: a good conversation or but it just it's not for me. 215 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:43,000 Speaker 1: And I understand that people dip in and out of 216 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:45,120 Speaker 1: the You project. I would too if I was a listener. 217 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:47,880 Speaker 1: There are some people that listen to every episode what 218 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:50,199 Speaker 1: the fuck is wrong with You? But I love you nonetheless. 219 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:53,360 Speaker 1: And and then there are some that you know, depending 220 00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:55,640 Speaker 1: on what the topic is or who the person is. 221 00:12:56,880 --> 00:13:02,040 Speaker 1: I listened to a guy the other day called Palma Lucky, 222 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:06,280 Speaker 1: that's his first name, Palma Lucky l U c k 223 00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:11,000 Speaker 1: e Y, who created a thing called Oculus Rift, which 224 00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:14,240 Speaker 1: were they're kind of one of the first versions of 225 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:19,920 Speaker 1: the best version of VR goggles. So he's a tech guru. 226 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:21,920 Speaker 1: So by the time he was either late teens or 227 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:25,440 Speaker 1: early twenties, he was a billionaire, right, And I know 228 00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:28,200 Speaker 1: fuck all about technology, as both of you know and 229 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:32,439 Speaker 1: our listeners know. And he was in and in our 230 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:35,960 Speaker 1: builds weapons for the US government. And he's still young, 231 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:39,680 Speaker 1: Like he's a young dude, right, And I listened to 232 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:45,360 Speaker 1: three hours and I was just fascinated with how he thinks. 233 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:50,360 Speaker 1: I'm fascinated with how people think, how their brain works, 234 00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:54,560 Speaker 1: what excites them, how they And this dude was like 235 00:13:55,520 --> 00:13:57,520 Speaker 1: if you saw him down the street, and I mean 236 00:13:57,520 --> 00:14:00,320 Speaker 1: this with love and respect. He's not an impressed It's 237 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:04,079 Speaker 1: not like, oh my god, look at that amazing human. 238 00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:08,480 Speaker 1: He's just a regular dude doing crazy shit, who's curious 239 00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:12,000 Speaker 1: and obviously pretty brilliant and all of that. But yeah, 240 00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:17,800 Speaker 1: some of the things that I listened to, like the content, 241 00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:20,960 Speaker 1: what they were talking about, how he develops and designs 242 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:24,800 Speaker 1: and builds technology and the roles that that technology can 243 00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:27,520 Speaker 1: serve for the general public and the military and all. 244 00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:31,920 Speaker 1: That's fascinating. But just listening to him, how he you know, 245 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:35,280 Speaker 1: how he started a company when he was thirteen and fourteen, 246 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:39,320 Speaker 1: and how he just I love that stuff. I love stories, 247 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:44,480 Speaker 1: stories that I can learn about the person, you know, 248 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:47,880 Speaker 1: through the story, and also just listening to how people 249 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:51,160 Speaker 1: think and how they function and how they navigate life. 250 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:54,760 Speaker 1: Because I found him fascinating and he's nothing like me, 251 00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:58,360 Speaker 1: so not like so much more interesting than me. But yeah, 252 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:02,680 Speaker 1: but I jump in and out of certain shows. I 253 00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:05,400 Speaker 1: don't listen often to what people think they think I 254 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:11,520 Speaker 1: might be all like rah rah, inspiration, motivation, psychology. I don't. 255 00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:14,120 Speaker 1: I really don't listen to very much of that at all. 256 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:19,920 Speaker 1: I love I love stories. I love I love humor. 257 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:22,720 Speaker 1: I love. I love listening to stuff that I do 258 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:28,240 Speaker 1: not understand or know about. Sometimes it depends. Yeah, I 259 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:32,520 Speaker 1: just listened to a whole series of books, The Terminal List, 260 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:35,440 Speaker 1: and before that, the whole series of The Gray Man, 261 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:40,920 Speaker 1: just about Tier one operators, and especially The Terminal List 262 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:43,280 Speaker 1: that's written by a guy called Jack Carr who was 263 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:47,040 Speaker 1: a Navy seal. So all of the all of the language, 264 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:49,240 Speaker 1: and all of the technical kind of stuff and all 265 00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:53,400 Speaker 1: the warfare stuff and the tactical stuff is very, very 266 00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:57,680 Speaker 1: realistic and insightful. And it was like just getting a, 267 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:01,240 Speaker 1: you know, an undergrad degree in how the military works, 268 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:03,120 Speaker 1: because I listened to I don't know what it is, 269 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:07,840 Speaker 1: twelve books and they're all like, you know, fifteen hours 270 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:10,000 Speaker 1: twelve times fifteen is one hundred and eighty that's one 271 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:14,160 Speaker 1: hundred and eighty hours of education, you know. I'm like, yeah, 272 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:18,280 Speaker 1: and it fucking fascinated me. And I just think, firstly, 273 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:22,120 Speaker 1: and it's ironic because I hate war. War was fucked. 274 00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:26,160 Speaker 1: I hate it that humans kill humans. I hate it 275 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:29,040 Speaker 1: that we haven't sorted that out yet. But at the 276 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:32,840 Speaker 1: same time, it's the way that it works and the 277 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:37,080 Speaker 1: way that you know, like like it or not, Australia 278 00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:38,840 Speaker 1: has to have an army and a navy and a 279 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:42,360 Speaker 1: defense force because if we don't, we get attacked, we're fucked. 280 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:46,440 Speaker 1: So that's the way the world works. So you can't go, oh, 281 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:50,840 Speaker 1: we're not doing defense because we're good. Luck with that. Well, 282 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:54,760 Speaker 1: pretty soon you're going to be overrun. But nonetheless, I'm sorry, 283 00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:56,960 Speaker 1: I digress, but I loved it. It's interesting. 284 00:16:57,600 --> 00:16:59,640 Speaker 2: So just on a tangent of that, then, like, how 285 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:02,640 Speaker 2: did how did you then, like compare that to listening 286 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:05,200 Speaker 2: to the dude who created the oculus and is now 287 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:10,000 Speaker 2: designing weapons like that would have been quite an interesting contrast. 288 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:13,600 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, So, I mean, these are just things that 289 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:16,960 Speaker 1: I don't really know a lot about and I'm fascinated with. 290 00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:22,160 Speaker 1: I was going to say smart people, but I don't 291 00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:28,120 Speaker 1: necessarily mean IQ smart. I just mean creative people, clever people. Yeah, 292 00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:32,480 Speaker 1: and so it's that, you know, there's no sometimes there's 293 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:35,520 Speaker 1: no rhyme or reason with what I find interesting, and 294 00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:39,400 Speaker 1: people would be maybe surprised by the stuff that will 295 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:44,600 Speaker 1: keep me engrossed for hours at a time. But yeah, 296 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:46,800 Speaker 1: and then I'll you know, like I listened the other 297 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:52,720 Speaker 1: day to Aubrey Marcus talked to a guy who used 298 00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:56,080 Speaker 1: to be a Christian. Right, this is how different is this? 299 00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:56,400 Speaker 2: Right? 300 00:17:57,000 --> 00:17:59,880 Speaker 1: So he was a Christian and now he's a follow 301 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:03,120 Speaker 1: of Jesus, Right, And you go, well, what's the difference, 302 00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:06,560 Speaker 1: And he's like, well, he's actually quite anti Christian now, 303 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:12,200 Speaker 1: in the sense that this dude feels like a lot 304 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:16,080 Speaker 1: of Christians worship the Bible more than God. And then 305 00:18:16,119 --> 00:18:19,040 Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, this is an interesting conversation. I don't 306 00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:22,119 Speaker 1: know if I agree or disagree, but I'm interested. So 307 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:26,119 Speaker 1: then I listened to two hours of him explaining the 308 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:29,640 Speaker 1: difference between his kind of theology or philosophy and how 309 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:32,760 Speaker 1: it came to be. His dad was a pastor. I 310 00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:35,680 Speaker 1: think he was a pastor in a church himself or 311 00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:38,440 Speaker 1: a youth pastor. He grew up in a very Christian, 312 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:46,200 Speaker 1: very theologically like profound family and environment, and he kind 313 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:48,280 Speaker 1: of did a left turn. And he's still all about 314 00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:53,439 Speaker 1: God and love and compassion, but he walked practically and 315 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:58,480 Speaker 1: strategically through the bits of the Bible that don't really 316 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:01,280 Speaker 1: make sense. And the problem is that when you are 317 00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:06,040 Speaker 1: completely intertwined with an idea or a theology or a 318 00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:09,840 Speaker 1: philosophy or a dogma or a practice or a way 319 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:13,440 Speaker 1: of eating or a way of living or whatever. When 320 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:18,080 Speaker 1: that becomes your identity, then it's almost impossible for you 321 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:23,439 Speaker 1: to learn new things regarding that area of whatever unless 322 00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:27,040 Speaker 1: people are endorsing your current thoughts or your current beliefs, 323 00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:31,160 Speaker 1: because when they attack or question or even are unsure 324 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:34,199 Speaker 1: about you know that thing, well, then you feel like 325 00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:38,480 Speaker 1: they're attacking you because they're questioning your identity. And so 326 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:43,400 Speaker 1: for me, I try really hard to listen to things 327 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:46,919 Speaker 1: that I don't agree with or I once didn't agree with, 328 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:52,200 Speaker 1: or might challenge my thinking. So, you know, for example, 329 00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 1: Matthew Mark Luke, John the first four books of the Bible, 330 00:19:55,119 --> 00:19:58,520 Speaker 1: or all Gospels. Then after Max there's a book of 331 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:03,040 Speaker 1: called Acts, and then there's a book Romans, so Romans, Corinthians, Galations, Ephesians, 332 00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:07,000 Speaker 1: Ephesians one and two, Philippians, Thessalonians. All of these books 333 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:09,920 Speaker 1: that followed the Gospels were written by a guy called 334 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:14,000 Speaker 1: Saint Paul. Right, he probably heard that he's written these 335 00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:17,720 Speaker 1: written by St. Paul's Letter to the Romans, Saint Paul's 336 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:21,280 Speaker 1: Letter to the Corinthians. And it didn't really I never 337 00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:25,200 Speaker 1: really thought deeply about the fact that when Jesus died, 338 00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:31,320 Speaker 1: Paul had never even met him. So this dude that 339 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:36,600 Speaker 1: didn't meet Jesus was writing all about Jesus years after 340 00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:39,120 Speaker 1: Jesus died. And I'm like, yeah, that's actually a good 341 00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:43,160 Speaker 1: point that this dude's making. Now, I'm not saying that 342 00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:45,679 Speaker 1: so it's all bullshit. I'm not saying that at all. 343 00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:50,480 Speaker 1: I'm just saying, Oh, so, Saint Paul apparently met Jesus 344 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:55,359 Speaker 1: on the road to Damascus, which is obviously a place 345 00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:57,760 Speaker 1: back in the day, and he had a vision, he 346 00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:03,080 Speaker 1: had an encounter via a vision of Jesus and anyway, 347 00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:05,200 Speaker 1: this whole thing, right, and so he had a vision, 348 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:08,520 Speaker 1: then he had this personal experience blah blah, blah blah, 349 00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:12,719 Speaker 1: and all of these subsequent books came out of this. Right. Anyway, 350 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:15,840 Speaker 1: I know, I'm fucking banging on and everybody's probably falling asleep. 351 00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:20,320 Speaker 1: But this was quite confronting to me because it really 352 00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:24,800 Speaker 1: challenged my thinking and ideology and theology. And it's in 353 00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:29,000 Speaker 1: those moments where people go, actually, Craig, what you thought 354 00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:32,520 Speaker 1: could be wrong, your beliefs about this could be wrong, 355 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:35,840 Speaker 1: and because like what this and it's not like, oh 356 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:38,160 Speaker 1: so I'm jumping ships. Now, I'm just like, oh, I'm 357 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:43,439 Speaker 1: listening and I'm considering. So, you know, the challenge of 358 00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:50,560 Speaker 1: being truly open minded and truly teachable and truly objective, 359 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:56,239 Speaker 1: it's pretty impossible, right because the Craig experience is a 360 00:21:56,280 --> 00:22:01,160 Speaker 1: subjective one. But at least having an awareness of your bias, 361 00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:05,200 Speaker 1: having an awareness of your echo chamber. For me, that's 362 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:08,800 Speaker 1: the start of being more aware and more objective and 363 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:12,360 Speaker 1: more open. Steps down off soapbox. 364 00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:16,680 Speaker 2: That's interesting. So a friend of mine a while ago, 365 00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:21,160 Speaker 2: when there was a big election happening, I was very 366 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:24,680 Speaker 2: set on I'm voting for this party because that one 367 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:26,760 Speaker 2: over there I do not agree with, I will never 368 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:30,120 Speaker 2: agree with, can't stand them, won't even look at them. 369 00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:32,520 Speaker 2: And he said to me, well, how do you know 370 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:36,439 Speaker 2: if you're not actually immersing yourself in what it is 371 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:38,960 Speaker 2: they stand for or what it is they're saying. And 372 00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:41,040 Speaker 2: so just do me a favor and maybe follow a 373 00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:43,600 Speaker 2: couple of their accounts online and see what it is 374 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:46,680 Speaker 2: like the followers of that side of the political spectrum 375 00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:49,600 Speaker 2: of saying. And so I did, and it was a 376 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:54,720 Speaker 2: really good point because I had been incredibly closed off. Thankfully, 377 00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:58,560 Speaker 2: it just confirmed that I didn't want to be leading 378 00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:02,639 Speaker 2: into that, and that was good. But I also do 379 00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:05,440 Speaker 2: wonder like if this is part of the same process of, 380 00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:10,240 Speaker 2: you know, if you're open enough to take not taking 381 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:13,320 Speaker 2: on other opinions, but at least hearing them. Is this 382 00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:17,359 Speaker 2: also kind of the same process of saying, that's not 383 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:20,600 Speaker 2: aligning with me anymore and I need to either stop 384 00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:26,400 Speaker 2: or remove or limit. And I heard the other day 385 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:28,879 Speaker 2: it was one of the chicks from Master Chef and 386 00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:31,480 Speaker 2: she's had this huge kind of body transformation and people 387 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:34,920 Speaker 2: were asking her about it, and she was very much 388 00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:37,480 Speaker 2: against talking about it, and then finally sat down and 389 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:39,879 Speaker 2: she's done this interview and she said, well, you know, 390 00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:42,240 Speaker 2: I've given up you know, a number of things in 391 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:45,080 Speaker 2: my life, and one of them is alcohol. And she said, 392 00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:47,080 Speaker 2: you know, I made the first time I kind of 393 00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:49,240 Speaker 2: was aware of how I felt about it was I 394 00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:53,320 Speaker 2: made this big platter of cheese and I poured myself 395 00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:58,399 Speaker 2: a drink that wasn't booze, and I cried because I 396 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:03,080 Speaker 2: felt like I was grieving former version of me. And 397 00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:05,640 Speaker 2: she's a fair way down the track now where she's 398 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:07,520 Speaker 2: like it doesn't bother her. But I just thought Wow, 399 00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:13,000 Speaker 2: that's it must be a pretty confronting moment to be 400 00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:17,440 Speaker 2: able to say that's not serving me and I need 401 00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:18,920 Speaker 2: to remove it from my life. 402 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:24,240 Speaker 1: Well, that's great awareness and that's courage. You know. That's 403 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:27,359 Speaker 1: that's hard. It's like the idea of change is not 404 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:29,640 Speaker 1: the same as the reality. It's not the same as 405 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:32,320 Speaker 1: you know, like wanting to be different or do different 406 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:36,040 Speaker 1: or look different or produce different results is easy. It 407 00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:38,800 Speaker 1: takes takes no effort because you just want it. You know, 408 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:42,760 Speaker 1: You're not necessarily making a decision, not necessarily sacrificing anything, 409 00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:47,360 Speaker 1: You're not necessarily taking any action. So yeah, I mean 410 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:50,800 Speaker 1: that's the ever present challenge for people in the on 411 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:53,880 Speaker 1: the personal growth, personal development, self help, whatever you want 412 00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:58,120 Speaker 1: to call it, call it journey. Is that Oh yeah, 413 00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:00,760 Speaker 1: of course it's hard. Yeah, of course it's giving up booze. 414 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:03,720 Speaker 1: I've never drunk, so but I can relate with other things. 415 00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:06,080 Speaker 1: You know, for me to change my relationship with food 416 00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:10,800 Speaker 1: took more than a decade to do it properly, because 417 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:13,280 Speaker 1: I'd change and then i'd stop, and then i'd start 418 00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:15,760 Speaker 1: and stop. I'd good, Oh look at me, I'm fucking amazing, 419 00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:17,919 Speaker 1: And now I'm shit, and because I fell off the wagon, 420 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:21,240 Speaker 1: the mysterious mythical wagon that everyone thought. You know, it's like, nay, 421 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:24,120 Speaker 1: didn't you just made different choices and put different shit 422 00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:26,199 Speaker 1: in your face? And it's one hundred percent no, fuck you, 423 00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:29,880 Speaker 1: it's the wagon. You know. It's like it's hard, it's 424 00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:33,840 Speaker 1: hard to go I'm the problem. I'm the problem. You know. 425 00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:36,359 Speaker 1: It's like, well, how did you? You know? And that's 426 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:39,239 Speaker 1: not self loathing, that's self awareness. Now that's not to 427 00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:42,600 Speaker 1: say that everybody's problems are all self created. It's not 428 00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:47,080 Speaker 1: to say that, but it is to say that there 429 00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:50,200 Speaker 1: are many times when we are not producing good outcomes 430 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:52,840 Speaker 1: because we are not making good decisions and we are 431 00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:55,919 Speaker 1: not doing good things, and we have to just own that. 432 00:25:56,240 --> 00:26:00,159 Speaker 1: You go, well, that's me. I'm not a victim. I'm 433 00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:02,879 Speaker 1: just the person who made bad choices and did bad things. 434 00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:05,959 Speaker 1: And that's not me beating myself up. That's me just 435 00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:11,320 Speaker 1: acknowledging what is. And so I don't even know what 436 00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:14,320 Speaker 1: you asked me, but it's like it is. It's like, 437 00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:18,960 Speaker 1: this is the challenge. And I think also one more 438 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:24,640 Speaker 1: thing that I was going to say is being being 439 00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:27,240 Speaker 1: open enough to like you did with the political stuff 440 00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:29,960 Speaker 1: to go. Oh, let me let me look into that. Now. 441 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:33,399 Speaker 1: That doesn't mean I'm looking into it because I'm thinking 442 00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:36,720 Speaker 1: of making a change. I'm just looking into it because 443 00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:40,480 Speaker 1: I want to understand it. You know, you can't overcome 444 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:44,359 Speaker 1: what you don't understand, right, you can't. You can't criticize 445 00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:46,600 Speaker 1: something that you don't understand. And one of the mistakes 446 00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:50,879 Speaker 1: that people make, I believe your honors, is that people 447 00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:56,720 Speaker 1: think that understanding something is condoning something right, which it isn't. 448 00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:03,480 Speaker 1: It's like, I understand lots of horrible shit. I don't 449 00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:07,439 Speaker 1: condone any horrible shit. I wish horrible shit didn't happen. 450 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:10,920 Speaker 1: I wish there was no domestic violence. I wish there 451 00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:13,440 Speaker 1: was I don't even want to list the things because 452 00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:16,359 Speaker 1: I don't like even saying it, But all the evil 453 00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:18,879 Speaker 1: shit that goes on, I wish it didn't go on. 454 00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:22,240 Speaker 1: But we don't live in my wishes. We live in 455 00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:25,359 Speaker 1: a world that is full of evil shit and sometimes 456 00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:28,399 Speaker 1: evil people. It's also full of great things and great people. 457 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:32,040 Speaker 1: But hey, let's be real, let's be practical. There are 458 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:36,080 Speaker 1: horrible fucking people doing horrible shit right and us putting 459 00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:38,679 Speaker 1: our head in the sand and not trying to understand it. 460 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:42,720 Speaker 1: Like we can't overcome what we don't understand. We can't 461 00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 1: conquer what we don't understand, so we need to be equipped. 462 00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:49,200 Speaker 1: It's like if you're we spoke about war earlier, If 463 00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:51,480 Speaker 1: you're going to war, you better fucking know what your 464 00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:54,640 Speaker 1: enemy is doing, because how the fuck can you anticipate 465 00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:57,280 Speaker 1: what's going to happen. So, if Tip's going to go 466 00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:00,320 Speaker 1: fight an opponent, she would be an idiot it to 467 00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:03,200 Speaker 1: do no prep, to watch no tape, to not understand, 468 00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:05,720 Speaker 1: you know, whether or not they're a southpoor or you 469 00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:09,040 Speaker 1: know whatever. Right, she needs to have some insight into 470 00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:12,639 Speaker 1: what she's contending with, who she's fighting, so that she 471 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:15,679 Speaker 1: can go in with a plan. Right, And this is 472 00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:18,680 Speaker 1: just life. You need to like you're going to deal 473 00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:23,360 Speaker 1: with sociopaths. So I think it's it's prudent for all 474 00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:27,760 Speaker 1: of us to understand sociopathy, not because we want to 475 00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:30,600 Speaker 1: become one or we think it's cool. But when you 476 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:34,159 Speaker 1: meet a narcissist or a sociopath, or a bully or 477 00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:37,199 Speaker 1: a cunt as I call them clinically, we'll just go 478 00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:41,840 Speaker 1: with kunt. You know what's going on and you are 479 00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:45,240 Speaker 1: at least a little bit more prepared. Steps down off 480 00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:48,800 Speaker 1: soapbox again, what's a south poor. 481 00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:54,080 Speaker 2: Left hand in boxing? Very annoying, very annoying. 482 00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:59,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, good question though, Legit, there's probably there's probably a 483 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:02,920 Speaker 1: bunch of listeners going, what's the southboard? So they're all going, 484 00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:04,040 Speaker 1: thank you, Kelly. 485 00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:07,280 Speaker 2: Well, there we go. I was going to ask what's no, 486 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:08,160 Speaker 2: I won't ask what's that? 487 00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:11,800 Speaker 1: What's a gun? Well? There are the three things that 488 00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:16,440 Speaker 1: I that's the umbrella term for sociopaths and bullies and 489 00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:22,360 Speaker 1: narcissists clinically known as a group as cunts. Yeah, it's 490 00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:26,240 Speaker 1: a little known fact. But I've almost got a PhD, 491 00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:26,920 Speaker 1: so trust me. 492 00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:31,560 Speaker 2: Great, great, there we go. Now we're in textbook territory, 493 00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:33,000 Speaker 2: so we've. 494 00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:38,720 Speaker 1: We're definitely not Oh god, imagine if Monash kicked me 495 00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:41,480 Speaker 1: out now fuck so close to the finish line. What 496 00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:44,240 Speaker 1: happened to harps? Well, he was talking about this umbrella 497 00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:54,480 Speaker 1: of psychological terms and we used a C word when cool? Yeah, yeah, yeah, 498 00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:56,320 Speaker 1: come on, what do you got? 499 00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:59,400 Speaker 2: Well it does still make me think about the whole 500 00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:04,600 Speaker 2: like because and like I really am hesitant to call 501 00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:06,560 Speaker 2: it a journey, but you guys both know that I've 502 00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:12,040 Speaker 2: been on this self improvement growth process, and I dip 503 00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:16,320 Speaker 2: into a lot I tap into both of you. But 504 00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:20,720 Speaker 2: it seems like there's a lot of self help or 505 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:24,280 Speaker 2: you know, self growth professionals that will go, Okay, yep, 506 00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:26,960 Speaker 2: here's where we start, this is what you first need 507 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:29,680 Speaker 2: to do. Here's even a little handbook that you might 508 00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:31,760 Speaker 2: fill out, and then you get to the end and 509 00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:36,400 Speaker 2: it's like, great, yay, you're fully grown. Now you're able 510 00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:38,880 Speaker 2: to go out into the world. But there does and 511 00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:41,160 Speaker 2: I don't know whether it's just from what it is 512 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:45,440 Speaker 2: that I listen to or whether anybody else has this experience, 513 00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:49,080 Speaker 2: but there doesn't seem to be enough credit for people 514 00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:53,520 Speaker 2: who are maybe halfway or three quarters or I mean, 515 00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:58,040 Speaker 2: it's always a continual process, but there doesn't seem to 516 00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:04,440 Speaker 2: be enough check in around this is what to expect, yeah, right, Like, 517 00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:07,240 Speaker 2: I don't know whether that's just something that I'm experiencing 518 00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:11,120 Speaker 2: based on what I'm tapping into, or if there are 519 00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:14,120 Speaker 2: those elements, or is it just is it just really 520 00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:16,320 Speaker 2: clever marketing from a lot of people where they kind 521 00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:18,280 Speaker 2: of go, hey, hey, over here, you know a new 522 00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:21,720 Speaker 2: listener or you know a new person I can help 523 00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:24,800 Speaker 2: you start, and then they kind of leave a gap there, 524 00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:27,680 Speaker 2: intentionally hoping that more people are just going to jump 525 00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:28,160 Speaker 2: on board. 526 00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:31,600 Speaker 1: I think everyone's on the journey. Nobody's there. And the 527 00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:33,920 Speaker 1: person who tells you that they've arrived, that they've got 528 00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:36,160 Speaker 1: their shit together, they've got it all figured out, do 529 00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:40,640 Speaker 1: not fucking listen to that person, That's for sure. I mean, 530 00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:45,640 Speaker 1: you two, I'm sure have met successful people. I've met people, 531 00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:48,200 Speaker 1: lots of people that were in in a way very 532 00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:52,160 Speaker 1: successful and legit done lots of great things, and in 533 00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:56,000 Speaker 1: other ways in other parts of their lives kind of 534 00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:59,120 Speaker 1: fuck ups, you know. And that's okay. I'm a fuck 535 00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:02,200 Speaker 1: up in some things as well. I'm not throwing anyone 536 00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:05,480 Speaker 1: under the bus. I think that, you know, like, the 537 00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:09,720 Speaker 1: human experience is not about being good at work. It's 538 00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:13,360 Speaker 1: not about all making money. It's not about having the 539 00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:18,680 Speaker 1: best relationship, it's not about having It's about a multitude 540 00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:20,640 Speaker 1: of things. It's like even when you even when you 541 00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:22,160 Speaker 1: get to I was talking to somebody about this the 542 00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:26,400 Speaker 1: other day, who's God bless or you know, spiritual woo 543 00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:29,600 Speaker 1: woo and fucking and the real deal. But I'm like, yeah, 544 00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:31,600 Speaker 1: that's cool, But you still got to pay the bills 545 00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:35,440 Speaker 1: because we don't live in a concept like we don't 546 00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:36,720 Speaker 1: do you know what I mean, You've still got to 547 00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:38,360 Speaker 1: still got to stop at red life, still got to 548 00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:41,920 Speaker 1: pay bills. You still you still need to work within 549 00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:46,000 Speaker 1: the parameters of the practicality of the human experience. And 550 00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:50,120 Speaker 1: you know, put petrol in your car, and pay registration, 551 00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:53,720 Speaker 1: and buy food, and educate your kids and buy choose 552 00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:58,000 Speaker 1: and you know, pay attention and like. So it's I'm 553 00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:01,440 Speaker 1: all for having a spiritual life. I'm all for making 554 00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:04,160 Speaker 1: enough money to support your kids and educate your kids. 555 00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:07,600 Speaker 1: I'm all for being respectful, and I'm all for building 556 00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:10,120 Speaker 1: a business if that's your jam. I'm all for going 557 00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:13,000 Speaker 1: on the personal development journey if that's you. But it's 558 00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:17,720 Speaker 1: not a thing. It's a multitude of things. Like we 559 00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:21,360 Speaker 1: could measure TIFF's life, your life, and my life now, 560 00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:25,760 Speaker 1: depending on the metric or the area of focus, Tiff 561 00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:28,520 Speaker 1: would come out way above you and me with some things. 562 00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:32,120 Speaker 1: You'd come out way above me and Tiff with other things, 563 00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:35,320 Speaker 1: and I'd come out above both you with some things, 564 00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:41,480 Speaker 1: depending on how we evaluate success or competence or you know, 565 00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:46,160 Speaker 1: I'm like well, it's like, I know lots of people who, 566 00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:49,200 Speaker 1: from the outside looking in, have ticked a lot of 567 00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:53,760 Speaker 1: you know, they're successful in that they are financially secure, 568 00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:57,520 Speaker 1: they own lots of things. They drive an amazing car, 569 00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:00,880 Speaker 1: they live in an amazing house, they've got it torific brand. 570 00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:05,480 Speaker 1: They're pretty, or they're handsome, or they're jacked, or they're 571 00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:08,480 Speaker 1: that's good and none of that is bad. But that 572 00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:12,400 Speaker 1: doesn't ensure anything on a psychological or emotional level, or 573 00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:15,680 Speaker 1: a spiritual level, or a happiness level. It just means 574 00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:18,600 Speaker 1: they've got lots of shit and well done, you know. 575 00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:21,920 Speaker 1: But our world is very much geod or our culture 576 00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:26,279 Speaker 1: or society, perhaps more accurately, is very much focused on 577 00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:34,040 Speaker 1: the concept of success as equating to what everyone can see. 578 00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:37,479 Speaker 1: It's like, can you see it? Yep? Can you see 579 00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:39,719 Speaker 1: how many followers I've got? Can you see what I 580 00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:42,799 Speaker 1: look like? Can you see how many photos of me 581 00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:46,600 Speaker 1: I've put on Instagram which are essentially the same photo 582 00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:50,480 Speaker 1: of the same person. That always that makes me sad 583 00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:53,440 Speaker 1: when I see people who there's a thousand photos on 584 00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:56,640 Speaker 1: their Instagram feed or their page or whatever the fuck 585 00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:59,319 Speaker 1: you call it. A nine hundred and ninety eight are 586 00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:04,360 Speaker 1: of them elves. Well, if they're not desperately looking for 587 00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:09,160 Speaker 1: approval and validation and acceptance, tell me what the fuck 588 00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:14,319 Speaker 1: is going on, right, Because their form of success is 589 00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:17,279 Speaker 1: about getting people to look at them and approve of 590 00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:21,359 Speaker 1: them and give them whatever feedback or praise or And 591 00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:24,480 Speaker 1: I'm not criticizing them, I understand it. This is I'm 592 00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:26,960 Speaker 1: coming from a bloke who was insecure and wanted to 593 00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:29,839 Speaker 1: build this freaky body. I get it, I get it. 594 00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:33,920 Speaker 1: But you know, okay, so now you've got ten million followers. 595 00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:37,360 Speaker 1: Now you're fucking the best looking thing in the suburb. 596 00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:41,839 Speaker 1: Now now what like even then you go, okay, you're beautiful, 597 00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:47,560 Speaker 1: you're handsome, you're fucking amazingly built or whatever, and you've 598 00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:51,839 Speaker 1: got all of these fans and followers. Sometimes they will 599 00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:56,200 Speaker 1: be the most anxious, the most insecure in the middle 600 00:35:56,200 --> 00:36:01,000 Speaker 1: of all of that external validation that they wanted, because 601 00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:06,360 Speaker 1: none of that external stuff guarantees any kind of positive 602 00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:10,040 Speaker 1: internal reciprocation. You know what I mean? 603 00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:17,160 Speaker 2: Oh totally. Someone else who I listened to, Oshiginsburg I've 604 00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:19,680 Speaker 2: mentioned before, like he's actually spoken about that, and you 605 00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:22,960 Speaker 2: would look at, you know, a dude like that Who's TV. 606 00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:26,920 Speaker 2: You know, he was on so many different shows, and 607 00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:31,200 Speaker 2: underneath the service was you know, riddled with anxiety and 608 00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:35,200 Speaker 2: doing all sorts of crazy shit to try and stay 609 00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:40,000 Speaker 2: calm as a human being. So that concept of the 610 00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:44,320 Speaker 2: visual being the I guess the social marker or the 611 00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:50,520 Speaker 2: indicator of you've done well, it's so it just feels 612 00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:54,239 Speaker 2: like so much bullshit, right, Like it's and I do 613 00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:57,759 Speaker 2: wonder if that's why when So, for instance, the other week, 614 00:36:57,800 --> 00:36:59,959 Speaker 2: when you did your episode about having this shit week, 615 00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:03,840 Speaker 2: which was really so different to anything else that you've done, 616 00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:06,560 Speaker 2: and you said that it went really, really well, and 617 00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:08,719 Speaker 2: then I was looking at the Facebook group and like 618 00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:13,759 Speaker 2: the comments were through the roof, Like it's almost like 619 00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:17,680 Speaker 2: people are really just hanging out for that bit of 620 00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:22,280 Speaker 2: realness and vulnerability that's well beneath the surface. 621 00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:26,480 Speaker 1: Well, you can be both. You can be you know, 622 00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:29,160 Speaker 1: you can be a cataskphe and a superstar in the 623 00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:33,279 Speaker 1: same day. You know. It's like, yeah, you're happy, you're sad, 624 00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:36,200 Speaker 1: you're this that, like one of my posts essentially says, 625 00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:38,840 Speaker 1: and you're brilliant and amazing, and things go great and 626 00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:43,880 Speaker 1: things go shit and then it's lunchtime, right, it's like that, yeah, yeah, 627 00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:48,560 Speaker 1: and like just trying to navigate the human experience. And 628 00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:51,520 Speaker 1: then you know, it's like and without boring everyone, you know, 629 00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:54,520 Speaker 1: it's like, then you find out someone that you love 630 00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:57,880 Speaker 1: is sick, and then all the bullshit that I was 631 00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:02,880 Speaker 1: worried about is meaningless. You're like, oh, well, in that moment, 632 00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:05,799 Speaker 1: it feels meaningless, you know, And then why am I 633 00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:09,000 Speaker 1: investing all this time and emotional energy and mental energy 634 00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:13,560 Speaker 1: in this thing that really, in the context of what matters, 635 00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:16,839 Speaker 1: in the context of my life, in the context of 636 00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:21,279 Speaker 1: who I love, this is so fucking nothing, yet I've 637 00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:25,440 Speaker 1: made it so something. And so yeah, it's been an 638 00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:30,359 Speaker 1: interesting month for me because there's just been you know, 639 00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:33,160 Speaker 1: a bunch of people that I care about doing it 640 00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:36,279 Speaker 1: very hard, and in the middle of that, I want 641 00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:40,400 Speaker 1: to be the best version of me for them. But 642 00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:44,120 Speaker 1: it you know, surprisingly, you know, there's sadness, and there's 643 00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:49,160 Speaker 1: you know, sometimes to be honest with some medical things, 644 00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:53,520 Speaker 1: frustration and all of that. But for me, overwhelmingly, there's 645 00:38:53,560 --> 00:39:01,040 Speaker 1: gratitude that I'm I'm I'm healthy and I don't necessarily 646 00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:03,520 Speaker 1: deserve to be healthy. I mean, there are people that 647 00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:06,880 Speaker 1: get sick, that have done nothing to deserve that sickness. 648 00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:10,560 Speaker 1: You know, there are people that, like our friend Joel Sarti, 649 00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:13,839 Speaker 1: who's been on the show multiple times, who was home 650 00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:17,200 Speaker 1: from you know, a serving soldier who had an accident 651 00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:20,080 Speaker 1: and became a quadriplegic. He didn't deserve that, he didn't 652 00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:22,840 Speaker 1: earn that. That was not you know, And so in 653 00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:25,040 Speaker 1: the context of that, I'm like, hey, Craig, you have 654 00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:28,319 Speaker 1: no problem, so shut the fuck up. Be grateful. But 655 00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:30,600 Speaker 1: yes I can feel sad, and yes I can feel 656 00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:34,440 Speaker 1: frustrated and anxious. That's not a weakness, that's not a fault. 657 00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:37,200 Speaker 1: That's just you being human. Because your dad's a bit sick, 658 00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:42,799 Speaker 1: and it's okay, it's okay you're sad. It's okay, you know, 659 00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:45,720 Speaker 1: and it's okay to share that with people. I don't 660 00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:51,200 Speaker 1: need to get on the podcast and be the perpetually happy, positive, 661 00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:57,560 Speaker 1: whatever guy, because that's a fucking act. Nobody wants that guy, 662 00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:02,239 Speaker 1: because that guy's not real, you know. That's that's not 663 00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:06,080 Speaker 1: a real person. That's a persona trying to create some 664 00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:10,520 Speaker 1: kind of impact on an audience. Well, to me, over time, 665 00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:13,040 Speaker 1: that might work a little bit, but it definitely doesn't 666 00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:17,440 Speaker 1: work especially not with Aussi's Ozsies are very discerning. Aussies 667 00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:21,239 Speaker 1: have got a big, fucking loud bullshit filter. You know. 668 00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:24,120 Speaker 1: It's like if you're a fake, they fucking know in 669 00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:27,839 Speaker 1: ten seconds and they're like, yeah, fuck you, that's not real, 670 00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:34,200 Speaker 1: you know. And also it's so much easier not being 671 00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:37,600 Speaker 1: that because you don't have to pretend about anything. You're 672 00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:40,360 Speaker 1: not trying to be what you think you should be, 673 00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:46,640 Speaker 1: to present this polished fucking public image, just going look, 674 00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:49,600 Speaker 1: this is our field today. I feel like shit, I 675 00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:53,279 Speaker 1: know that's not very uplifting. Sorry everyone, but that's just 676 00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:56,879 Speaker 1: you know, the seven day a week podcast today bit shit. 677 00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:00,719 Speaker 1: So but feel free to tune now. And if you did, 678 00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:03,239 Speaker 1: I wouldn't blame you, and I'll see you tomorrow. I 679 00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:06,160 Speaker 1: could be a bit happier see you then. You know, 680 00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:07,880 Speaker 1: I think people resonate with that. 681 00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:13,040 Speaker 2: Oh absolutely absolutely, because yeah, it's you know, you see 682 00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:17,359 Speaker 2: through bullshit so quickly. And is that And this goes 683 00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:20,160 Speaker 2: back to my other question as well, when you're trying 684 00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:23,120 Speaker 2: to be the best version of yourself in those moments 685 00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:26,120 Speaker 2: like is that the key for you is that it's 686 00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:30,360 Speaker 2: looking at it through the lens of gratitude. 687 00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:33,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good question. So for me, it's about 688 00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:39,520 Speaker 1: it's about how much I can walk my talk and 689 00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:46,160 Speaker 1: live my values when the situation doesn't lend itself to that, 690 00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:50,480 Speaker 1: when I'm in the middle of a shit best and 691 00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:56,160 Speaker 1: people would understand me losing my shit or not being 692 00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:00,600 Speaker 1: the role model that I try to be and the 693 00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:04,319 Speaker 1: person that I try to be, not always successfully. But 694 00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:08,920 Speaker 1: for me, it's like, at the moment, honestly, there are 695 00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:12,000 Speaker 1: hard things going on, which both of you know, and 696 00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:18,520 Speaker 1: it's like, Okay, this is the time or this is 697 00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:20,880 Speaker 1: one of the times, Craig, like you talk about dealing 698 00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:24,840 Speaker 1: with discomfort and adversity and being the calm and the chaos, 699 00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:28,479 Speaker 1: and you know, I'm not putting my head in the sand. 700 00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:31,720 Speaker 1: I'm not pretending things are great, and I'm being honest 701 00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:36,080 Speaker 1: and I'm being practical. But I think I think adversity 702 00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:41,759 Speaker 1: and tough times and pain and sadness and tragedy are 703 00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:47,799 Speaker 1: weirdly opportunities for us to learn about ourselves. You know, 704 00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:50,760 Speaker 1: I want to see I like seeing people under pressure 705 00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:53,480 Speaker 1: because I feel like I get to see who they are. 706 00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:57,400 Speaker 1: I like seeing people when things are going shit. Not 707 00:42:57,480 --> 00:42:59,560 Speaker 1: that I want them to suffer. But I like seeing 708 00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:03,719 Speaker 1: people and things go shit, because especially people who are 709 00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:07,239 Speaker 1: you know, the the rah rah b ll you can 710 00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:10,600 Speaker 1: be self help types. And no, that's maybe sounds nasty 711 00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:13,120 Speaker 1: and I meant it too, but I'm just interested. I 712 00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:15,280 Speaker 1: want to see what they do when things are going shit, 713 00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:18,600 Speaker 1: you know. And a few times where Tips had hard 714 00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:22,560 Speaker 1: things going on and she's been fine, but she's struggled 715 00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:24,439 Speaker 1: a bit, as I struggle a bit, and I've gone, 716 00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:27,719 Speaker 1: this is the time, dude. It's now like all the 717 00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:30,840 Speaker 1: stuff we talk about. It's like and you don't have 718 00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:33,120 Speaker 1: to be superman or superwoman, and you can have a 719 00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:36,920 Speaker 1: bad day, of course, but you're like, okay, okay, that 720 00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:39,800 Speaker 1: makes sense. It's like I need to try to manage 721 00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:41,360 Speaker 1: me in the middle of all of the stuff that 722 00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:45,000 Speaker 1: I can't manage. So I see it as an opportunity 723 00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:49,160 Speaker 1: as well as a pain in the ass as well as, 724 00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:52,800 Speaker 1: you know, just a tough reality to navigate. 725 00:43:54,680 --> 00:43:57,920 Speaker 2: And do you find with that like you actually have 726 00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:00,480 Speaker 2: to stop and have almost like you have a conversation 727 00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:04,080 Speaker 2: with yourself as you would like said now with Tiffleer, 728 00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:06,799 Speaker 2: you have to stop and go all right, this is 729 00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:09,839 Speaker 2: this is the moment where everything that I have been 730 00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:14,239 Speaker 2: working on, everything I have been downloading, this needs to 731 00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:15,439 Speaker 2: come into effect. Now. 732 00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:19,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, you don't want to be a self 733 00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:23,839 Speaker 1: help robot and you want to be spontaneous and authentic, 734 00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:27,239 Speaker 1: but I think you can do that and be mindful 735 00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:33,600 Speaker 1: and aware. Like I'll tell you something funny about you, 736 00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:35,040 Speaker 1: right you, Kelly. 737 00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:39,440 Speaker 2: So aside from dressing like a fifteen eurography toatis. 738 00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:43,279 Speaker 1: And if that was inappropriate or hurtful, I apologize. 739 00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:45,720 Speaker 2: That was great. That was great. It's when you bio. 740 00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:51,640 Speaker 1: But you know, like it's no secret that you're an introvert. 741 00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:54,160 Speaker 1: So you're doing this is amazing, and it's no secret 742 00:44:54,160 --> 00:44:56,520 Speaker 1: that you used to be intimidated. You knew who I was, 743 00:44:56,560 --> 00:44:58,120 Speaker 1: and you'd see me at the gym and you'd be 744 00:44:58,239 --> 00:45:02,640 Speaker 1: like this little fucking timid little thing that would walk 745 00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:07,160 Speaker 1: fifteen meters away not to talk to me. And then 746 00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:10,960 Speaker 1: eventually you know, you're like you like that, you know 747 00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:13,640 Speaker 1: that that horse that hasn't been broken in that kind 748 00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:16,319 Speaker 1: of slowly comes over to the horse whisper and just 749 00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:19,960 Speaker 1: eventually puts its head on the dude's shoulder or the 750 00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:22,640 Speaker 1: dude you know, and it's like, eventually you came over 751 00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:26,800 Speaker 1: and you know, metaphorically put your head on my shoulder 752 00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:29,359 Speaker 1: and went, could we chat a bit? You know. And 753 00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:34,160 Speaker 1: then so as you've changed towards me, and as you've 754 00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:38,960 Speaker 1: gained a confidence and insight and whatever, I've changed the 755 00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:43,040 Speaker 1: way that I communicate with you. And so you used 756 00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:45,640 Speaker 1: to send me messages which were pretty short and pretty 757 00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:53,000 Speaker 1: polite and pretty professional, I guess, and now you're like, yeah, 758 00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:59,040 Speaker 1: you get a sunshine, you know. I'm like, well, somebody's 759 00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:03,360 Speaker 1: opened the door, somebody's overcome a you know. And it's like, 760 00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:07,880 Speaker 1: so what's my point? My point is, as I see 761 00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:11,239 Speaker 1: that I can be a bit cheekier or a bit 762 00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:16,360 Speaker 1: less formal or a bit more you know, inappropriate in 763 00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:19,120 Speaker 1: a fun way, or a bit like take the piss or, 764 00:46:19,160 --> 00:46:21,840 Speaker 1: which is my default setting that I really have to 765 00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:25,200 Speaker 1: manage around a lot of people, of course, then that's 766 00:46:25,239 --> 00:46:29,600 Speaker 1: where I go. And but it's all based on basically 767 00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:32,919 Speaker 1: your permission that you're giving me without knowing that you're 768 00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:36,640 Speaker 1: giving me that permission. It's that theory of mind, it's 769 00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:41,080 Speaker 1: that understanding. Okay, Kelly's intentionally or not consciously or not 770 00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:44,759 Speaker 1: open these doors. So I'm just going to walk through 771 00:46:45,239 --> 00:46:46,399 Speaker 1: you know. Yeah. 772 00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:48,439 Speaker 2: I mean, look, I did call you pet the other day, 773 00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:48,839 Speaker 2: so I. 774 00:46:48,719 --> 00:46:52,440 Speaker 1: Guess, yeah, that was funny. You sent me a message 775 00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:56,320 Speaker 1: and you're like, hello, Pets, and I'm like, that's fucking great. 776 00:46:57,200 --> 00:46:59,200 Speaker 1: I'm like, and I'm glad that you do that. 777 00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:02,840 Speaker 2: You said hello, love, And how do you follow that 778 00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:03,920 Speaker 2: up aside from. 779 00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:10,080 Speaker 1: Hello Pitt, Hello love? Hello? I said love? Yeah, all right, 780 00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:13,080 Speaker 1: we might call it a day. But it's good. You're 781 00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:16,120 Speaker 1: getting good at this. You're getting good at it. It's good, 782 00:47:16,239 --> 00:47:21,400 Speaker 1: good insightful questions, good topics. While we've got you, do 783 00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:23,760 Speaker 1: you want to promote anything? Do you want to steer 784 00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:26,160 Speaker 1: anyone towards your socials or not? Really? What do you 785 00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:27,920 Speaker 1: want to do? Oh? 786 00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:33,240 Speaker 2: Look, I've been really brave and I am writing almost 787 00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:37,680 Speaker 2: every day now and publishing it. So it is Kelsmith 788 00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:42,080 Speaker 2: dot substack dot com. And I just kind of thought, 789 00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:44,920 Speaker 2: I can keep talking about wanting to write, or I 790 00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:49,319 Speaker 2: can actually write, and so I'm writing. 791 00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:51,719 Speaker 1: Well, can't get good at the thing you're not doing, 792 00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:52,600 Speaker 1: So you're doing it. 793 00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:53,399 Speaker 2: I'm doing it. 794 00:47:54,400 --> 00:47:57,920 Speaker 1: Tiff. Thank you, Tiff, Thank you, Kelly. Thanks listeners,