1 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:08,080 Speaker 1: Welcome to Fear and Greed Q and a where we 2 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:11,960 Speaker 1: ask and answer questions about business, investing, economics, politics and more. 3 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:17,279 Speaker 1: I'm Michael Thompson and today why is Australia outperforming in biotech? 4 00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:19,919 Speaker 1: I'm joined today by Stefan von Yimoff, who is the 5 00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:23,680 Speaker 1: co founder and CEO of Alternative Investing Community and fund 6 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:27,120 Speaker 1: Alts dot Co. Stafan, welcome back to Fear and Greed 7 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:27,680 Speaker 1: Q and a. 8 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 2: Great to be here. 9 00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:31,760 Speaker 1: There's a fair bit in this, but let's start with 10 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:36,320 Speaker 1: the big picture. Why is Australia emerging as a biotech powerhouse? 11 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:39,519 Speaker 1: Because there's a couple of great examples and I want 12 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 1: to go through those in a moment. But big picture, 13 00:00:42,760 --> 00:00:45,280 Speaker 1: what's making a stand out from global competitors. 14 00:00:46,040 --> 00:00:49,200 Speaker 2: I think Australia definitely punches well above its wheat and 15 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:52,159 Speaker 2: a lot of areas in biotech is no exception. And 16 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:56,200 Speaker 2: I think first and foremost it's just a fantastic talent 17 00:00:56,240 --> 00:00:58,680 Speaker 2: pool down here. Sure it's not as large of a 18 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:00,600 Speaker 2: talent pool as they have, you know, in the US 19 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:04,280 Speaker 2: and North America and in Europe, but in terms of quality, 20 00:01:04,600 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 2: Australia really punches above its weight. We have excellent universities, 21 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 2: excellent infrastructure and a great federal and state grant system 22 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:15,520 Speaker 2: which allows a lot of biotech companies to get off 23 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:19,680 Speaker 2: the ground. And that's something that's absent in other countries 24 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:22,319 Speaker 2: and we have a really good infrastructure there and in 25 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 2: that regard. 26 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 1: So you've recently toured two companies. Both of them are 27 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 1: based in Sydney and they are doing two completely different things. 28 00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:35,039 Speaker 1: Let's start with Inventia Locke signs. What are they doing well? 29 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:38,479 Speaker 2: Inventure is a really fascinating company. So they are actually 30 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:40,440 Speaker 2: a perfect example of a company that got off the 31 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:44,959 Speaker 2: ground through state and federal grants and they have built 32 00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 2: a facility in Alexandria, just south of Sydney. The best 33 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:52,840 Speaker 2: way to explain this company is they help speed up 34 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 2: cancer research by creating proper environments for scientists to study cancers. 35 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:03,400 Speaker 2: So the best way to think about it is, when 36 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:06,560 Speaker 2: you are researching cancer, you need to study it in 37 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:09,520 Speaker 2: its natural environment. But you know, a human body that's 38 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:12,680 Speaker 2: a human Yeah, but you can't exactly do that right, 39 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:16,520 Speaker 2: It's not easy to do. So what invention does is 40 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:19,239 Speaker 2: instead of using you know, basically a Petri dish to 41 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:25,320 Speaker 2: test cancers and cancer treatments. Rather, they've basically created an 42 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:29,240 Speaker 2: environment that mimics different parts of the body. It can 43 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:31,640 Speaker 2: mimic the brain, it can mimic the pancreas, it can 44 00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:36,520 Speaker 2: mimic skin, and so there are many applications for this, 45 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:39,400 Speaker 2: But the one they're really finding traction with is they're 46 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:43,840 Speaker 2: selling to pharmaceutical companies who are using these environments to 47 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:48,840 Speaker 2: properly test cancer treatments. And it's speeding up cancer research tremendously. 48 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:52,919 Speaker 1: Okay, and I imagine if they're able to essentially kind 49 00:02:52,919 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 1: of print these environment human lack substances, essentially there would 50 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:02,080 Speaker 1: be at the application for potentially and kind of treating 51 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:07,840 Speaker 1: wounds all that. It feels like this is very kind 52 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:08,800 Speaker 1: of fertile ground. 53 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:14,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, the bioprinter that they've created can exactly that, it 54 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:19,360 Speaker 2: can create actual skin cells, and so these, you know, 55 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:23,919 Speaker 2: in the future, theoretically could be used to replace current 56 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:27,360 Speaker 2: skin grafting technology. It was funny when we took a 57 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:30,520 Speaker 2: tour a few days ago, we actually were able to 58 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 2: witness and experience how this works. We basically placed our 59 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:40,800 Speaker 2: hand underneath the bioprinter and it spat out this gel 60 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 2: that in a real environment would be actual cells that 61 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 2: would essentially kind of fuse with your skin and basically 62 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:51,800 Speaker 2: help wounds heal faster. So there is a there's tremendous 63 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:53,720 Speaker 2: opportunity with this company going forward. 64 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:57,280 Speaker 1: I know it's a clache, but it sounds like science 65 00:03:57,320 --> 00:04:00,600 Speaker 1: fiction and that's probably the key as well for the 66 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:02,360 Speaker 1: next company that I wanted to talk to about. Another 67 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:05,040 Speaker 1: one that you visited is vow which recently I think 68 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 1: became the first company legally allowed to sell And I've 69 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:12,600 Speaker 1: got to get the terminology right cultured meat in Australia. 70 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 1: You cannot call it fake meat. 71 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 2: You can, but it's not right. Yeah, definitely don't call 72 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 2: it fake. And the fact is it's not fake, it's 73 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:24,080 Speaker 2: real meat. But it's meat sells right. So similar to Inventure, 74 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:27,200 Speaker 2: Voo is basically starting with the the cell, the building 75 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:31,839 Speaker 2: block of biology, and they have basically created what exactly 76 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:34,479 Speaker 2: what you said called cultured meat. Now, this is really 77 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:37,440 Speaker 2: fascinating because there are not a lot of countries in 78 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:40,000 Speaker 2: the world that have a framework, a legal framework in 79 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:44,000 Speaker 2: place for selling cultured meat, because it's basically a whole 80 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:45,880 Speaker 2: new category of food. 81 00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:46,280 Speaker 1: Right. 82 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:51,760 Speaker 2: Well, Australia just last month became the first well not 83 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:54,440 Speaker 2: the first, sorry, but one of the first countries to 84 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:57,960 Speaker 2: create that legal framework, and that opened the door for 85 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:03,719 Speaker 2: Voo to sell their cultured meat in restaurants in you know, 86 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:07,520 Speaker 2: and coals and woolies. So the sky's the limit and 87 00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 2: Vowers are really at an inflection point about to take off. 88 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:13,479 Speaker 1: How hard is it going to be for them though, 89 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 1: because there is it's almost a psychological barrier to eating 90 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:20,919 Speaker 1: something that you know has essentially been cultivated or grown 91 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:24,159 Speaker 1: in a lab. I imagine it's one thing to sell it 92 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:27,039 Speaker 1: into perhaps some high end restaurants, another thing altogether to 93 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:29,880 Speaker 1: get it into woolies and colds and get people buying it. 94 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 1: Did you taste it? What's it actually like? 95 00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:35,799 Speaker 2: It will be a challenge for sure, to be clear. 96 00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:38,720 Speaker 2: I've spoken with George, the founder, about this, and he's 97 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:41,200 Speaker 2: well aware that there is a kind of a mental 98 00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:43,920 Speaker 2: hurdle here. But the thing is, once you taste it, 99 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:46,520 Speaker 2: oh man, like, all your doubts go out the window. 100 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:49,919 Speaker 2: The best way I can describe it is it's it 101 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:53,240 Speaker 2: doesn't feel The mouth feel isn't like a burger, right, 102 00:05:53,279 --> 00:05:57,400 Speaker 2: It's not stringy, it's not tough. There's no fibrous kind 103 00:05:57,400 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 2: of element to it. It's more of like a pat's 104 00:05:59,839 --> 00:06:02,279 Speaker 2: head or a par fit or like an icing, you know, 105 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:05,160 Speaker 2: like a savory icing. And so you can put it 106 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:07,520 Speaker 2: on bread, you can put it. There's a million different 107 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:10,400 Speaker 2: applications and chefs now in Sydney and Melbourne and all 108 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 2: over Australia are experimenting with different ways to basically present 109 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:17,400 Speaker 2: this food. So once you once you've tried it, once 110 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:19,680 Speaker 2: you've tasted it, I mean it's a delicacy. There's no 111 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:20,480 Speaker 2: other way to put it. 112 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:25,440 Speaker 1: Okay, all right? And so investment side kind of we 113 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:29,680 Speaker 1: recently saw one biotech company, Tetratherics, listed on the IX 114 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:33,320 Speaker 1: that only happened a few wakes back. Are we going 115 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:35,640 Speaker 1: to say more follow the likes of kind of invention 116 00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:39,240 Speaker 1: and vow or is that not in their future? Do 117 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:39,640 Speaker 1: you think? 118 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:43,240 Speaker 2: Look, I think that not only our invention vow well 119 00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:45,880 Speaker 2: positioned for the future. I think Australia in general is 120 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:48,520 Speaker 2: very well positioned for the future. Again, we have a 121 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:52,920 Speaker 2: terrific infrastructure and there's a lot of clarity with legal 122 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:56,480 Speaker 2: frameworks in government, unlike you know the US, for example, 123 00:06:56,520 --> 00:06:58,520 Speaker 2: where things are kind of a mass. In fact, in 124 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:02,280 Speaker 2: the US, Florida band you know, last year, So it's 125 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:04,359 Speaker 2: a very state by state thing in the US. So 126 00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:07,040 Speaker 2: you know, I think that Australia is very well positioned 127 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:08,080 Speaker 2: going forward. 128 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:11,600 Speaker 1: Okay, we started kind of bringing it back to where 129 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:15,600 Speaker 1: we started about why Australia is kind of punching above 130 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:18,440 Speaker 1: it's white in this space and the potential for us 131 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 1: to continue doing it. Is there anything holding us back? 132 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:23,360 Speaker 1: You've said that we've kind of been able to clear 133 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 1: a lot of the regulatory hurdles in relation to specific industries, 134 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:29,640 Speaker 1: but broadly in the biotech space, is there anything that's 135 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:32,440 Speaker 1: holding us back and stopping us becoming the world leaders? 136 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:35,840 Speaker 2: Look, I think that you know, talent certainly isn't holding 137 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:38,520 Speaker 2: us back, infrastructures not holding us back, and capital is 138 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:41,960 Speaker 2: not holding Australia back. To the degree that anything's holding 139 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 2: Australia back, it's really just the kind of a risk 140 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:45,600 Speaker 2: taking culture. 141 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:45,960 Speaker 1: You know. 142 00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:49,040 Speaker 2: One one great thing about the US is that it's 143 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:52,240 Speaker 2: appetite for risk is pretty limitless. And you know, there's 144 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:55,640 Speaker 2: kind of a revolving door between academia and private sector 145 00:07:55,640 --> 00:07:58,520 Speaker 2: in the US, where in Australia, you know, if you 146 00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:00,920 Speaker 2: kind of go down the academia line of work, you 147 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:03,720 Speaker 2: kind of stay there. It's kind of cushy, and it's 148 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 2: just not as common to go into private sector if 149 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 2: you're in academia. So I think it just comes down 150 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:12,720 Speaker 2: to a risk taking culture. I think it's changing as 151 00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 2: we speak, and as that continues to change, I think 152 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:16,520 Speaker 2: Australia will reap the awards. 153 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:18,520 Speaker 1: Stefan, thanks for talking to Fear and Greed. 154 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:19,320 Speaker 2: Thank you. 155 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:21,760 Speaker 1: That was to find volume off from Olds dot co. 156 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:24,200 Speaker 1: Head to oldstt Co to sign up for their newsletter, 157 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:26,880 Speaker 1: which this episode is based on an edition of that newsletter. 158 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:29,640 Speaker 1: And of course this information is general in nature. You 159 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 1: should do your research before making any investment decisions. If 160 00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:33,720 Speaker 1: you've got something that you would like to know on 161 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:37,000 Speaker 1: this podcast, then please send to your question on LinkedIn, Instagram, 162 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:40,439 Speaker 1: Facebook or at Fearangreed dot com dot au. I'm mirkal 163 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:42,520 Speaker 1: Thompson and this is Fear and Greed Q and A