WEBVTT - Will Australia get behind Dutton's nuclear campaign? 0:00:01.240 --> 0:00:10.559 From Schwartz Media. I'm Scott Mitchell. This is seven am. 0:00:10.680 --> 0:00:14.640 Nuclear power has been politically toxic in this country for decades. 0:00:15.160 --> 0:00:18.279 That's why it's been fifty five years since a leader 0:00:18.320 --> 0:00:22.400 won an election promising to build nuclear reactors. But Peter 0:00:22.520 --> 0:00:24.680 Dutton is betting at all that he can do it, 0:00:25.440 --> 0:00:28.520 and as strange as it sounds, he's convincing people. A 0:00:28.560 --> 0:00:32.080 little over ten years ago, sixty two percent of Australians 0:00:32.120 --> 0:00:37.159 opposed nuclear power. Today poles are showing the majority support it. 0:00:38.120 --> 0:00:41.000 So how has a policy so beset with challenges and 0:00:41.040 --> 0:00:46.240 criticism won people over? Today Columnist for the Saturday Paper, 0:00:46.520 --> 0:00:49.960 Paul Bonjorno on why a policy that may never work 0:00:50.320 --> 0:00:58.640 can still be a political weapon. It's Friday, June twenty one. 0:01:03.600 --> 0:01:03.880 Paul. 0:01:03.920 --> 0:01:08.080 It's been long promised, long anticipated, But this week Peter 0:01:08.200 --> 0:01:11.720 Dutton finally went from a fairly vague nuclear promise to 0:01:11.880 --> 0:01:16.399 announcing a nuclear policy he'll take to the next election. First, 0:01:16.600 --> 0:01:18.880 just how big a moment is this for the opposition? 0:01:19.640 --> 0:01:24.199 Well, Scott, this is Peter Dutton's crazy, brave moment. It's 0:01:24.200 --> 0:01:27.640 born of a desperation as a first term opposition leader 0:01:27.959 --> 0:01:30.679 trying to achieve the rare feat of knocking off a 0:01:30.720 --> 0:01:33.120 first term prime minister and government. 0:01:33.600 --> 0:01:36.240 Okay, Fron, thank you very much for being here today. 0:01:37.400 --> 0:01:39.560 I'm very pleased to be joined by my colleagues because 0:01:39.720 --> 0:01:42.600 this is a major announcement to the future of our country. 0:01:42.640 --> 0:01:44.479 Is incredibly important and we need to have a plan 0:01:44.640 --> 0:01:47.600 for the economy. We need to have a plan for jobs, 0:01:47.640 --> 0:01:49.760 and we need to have a plan for cheaper electricity. 0:01:49.920 --> 0:01:53.320 The news conference in Sydney was a firm statement that 0:01:53.360 --> 0:01:57.440 the leadership of the coalition parties was all on side 0:01:57.840 --> 0:02:01.680 with his attempt to paint seven nuclear reactors sometime in 0:02:01.720 --> 0:02:05.640 the next thirty years as the answer to all struggling 0:02:05.760 --> 0:02:07.360 Australian's problems. 0:02:07.440 --> 0:02:09.400 Well, thanks, Dada. It's a proud day to be the 0:02:09.440 --> 0:02:11.480 Nationals leader. This has been a long held view of 0:02:11.480 --> 0:02:14.040 the National Party. But it's proud of me to stand 0:02:14.080 --> 0:02:17.280 here with my coalition friends, led by Peter Dutton, who's 0:02:17.320 --> 0:02:19.880 had the courage of the conviction to come forward, to 0:02:19.919 --> 0:02:22.760 stand forward and show a different way for Australia. 0:02:22.880 --> 0:02:24.960 He was joined by the Leader of the Nationals David 0:02:25.000 --> 0:02:29.280 little Brown, his Deputy Leader, Susan Lee, Shadow Minister for 0:02:29.320 --> 0:02:32.880 Climate Change and Energy, Ted O'Brien, he's the architect of 0:02:32.919 --> 0:02:37.280 the yet to be fully and credibly released plan and finally, 0:02:37.320 --> 0:02:39.040 Shadow Treasurer Angus. 0:02:38.680 --> 0:02:41.880 Taylor today, I want the very clear focus to be 0:02:42.520 --> 0:02:46.040 on the fact that the sites we're proposing end of 0:02:46.200 --> 0:02:49.600 use call fire POWERstation sites. So when you hear labor 0:02:49.680 --> 0:02:51.200 go out and say is it going to be in 0:02:51.200 --> 0:02:54.320 this park? Will it be on this beach? All of 0:02:54.320 --> 0:02:56.919 that childish behavior that we'll expect from the Prime minister. 0:02:57.240 --> 0:03:00.520 What we got was the sites for the proposed nuclear 0:03:00.560 --> 0:03:06.000 reactors as flagged or on current coal fired power stations 0:03:06.240 --> 0:03:09.000 to in Queensland, to in New South Wales, one in 0:03:09.040 --> 0:03:12.960 South Australia, one in Victoria and one in Western Australia, 0:03:13.480 --> 0:03:16.560 and we had the claim the first of them would 0:03:16.600 --> 0:03:20.360 be online by twenty thirty five to twenty thirty seven. 0:03:21.360 --> 0:03:23.880 Actually I'm ordering christ tag whatever it is. 0:03:24.040 --> 0:03:25.760 Where does that money come from or where does it 0:03:25.880 --> 0:03:28.120 taken from and might not get invested? 0:03:28.680 --> 0:03:31.920 Well, again, it comes from the same place that the 0:03:31.960 --> 0:03:36.560 snowy hydro funds come from, or the subsidies around solar 0:03:36.600 --> 0:03:39.560 and win now it comes from the Australian taxpayer. The 0:03:39.560 --> 0:03:42.520 Australian government doesn't have any money without the Australian taxpayers. 0:03:42.520 --> 0:03:46.680 So that's a decision for the government of the day 0:03:46.680 --> 0:03:48.120 as to whether it's a wise investment. 0:03:48.480 --> 0:03:51.120 But Scott the most stunning part of the announcement was 0:03:51.160 --> 0:03:55.360 the Liberals abandoning their holy writ of a free market 0:03:55.600 --> 0:04:00.320 and private enterprise, knowing best and best able to del hover. 0:04:00.720 --> 0:04:04.160 The taxpayers of Australia will be asked to stump up 0:04:04.440 --> 0:04:09.080 the as yet unspecified billions of dollars, and in what 0:04:09.200 --> 0:04:13.320 would make any socialist proud, the Australian government will own 0:04:13.680 --> 0:04:16.000 and operate these power stations. 0:04:16.400 --> 0:04:19.440 The assets will be owned by the Commonwealth, a very 0:04:19.480 --> 0:04:24.880 important point. And we'll work with experts to deliver these programs, 0:04:24.920 --> 0:04:27.839 will work with the state premiers. Some debate about that 0:04:27.920 --> 0:04:28.280 I see. 0:04:28.839 --> 0:04:31.719 Of course, don't mention the waste or the safety issues, 0:04:32.120 --> 0:04:35.960 or how the local communities will be involved. Dutton says 0:04:36.040 --> 0:04:39.840 we'll get all those answers in due course. But when 0:04:40.000 --> 0:04:43.400 that is, and whether it'll be before the election or after, 0:04:43.480 --> 0:04:45.360 it is far from clear. 0:04:45.640 --> 0:04:47.600 If we're want to set our country up for the future, 0:04:47.880 --> 0:04:50.760 if we're going to bring those electricity prices down, if 0:04:50.800 --> 0:04:53.800 we want to make a stable economy and if we 0:04:53.839 --> 0:04:55.920 want to grow that economy, and if we want to 0:04:55.960 --> 0:04:59.160 grow jobs for generations to come, our country must seize 0:04:59.200 --> 0:05:00.440 this opportunity. 0:04:59.880 --> 0:05:02.560 Now, right, Paul, A few hurdles to overcome. Do we 0:05:02.600 --> 0:05:06.040 have a sense yet how serious those kind of practical 0:05:06.160 --> 0:05:07.760 challenges are with this policy? 0:05:08.120 --> 0:05:11.279 Well, State labor premiers immediately came out against the plan. 0:05:11.800 --> 0:05:15.840 New South Wales Chris Min's and Victoria's Jacinta Allen reminded 0:05:15.920 --> 0:05:20.000 us that even if Dutton removed federal legislation that bans 0:05:20.160 --> 0:05:24.440 nuclear power stations, states like theirs have their own bands 0:05:24.839 --> 0:05:26.360 and they won't be lifting them. 0:05:26.520 --> 0:05:29.599 We're not going to remove the nuclear prohibition on energy 0:05:29.600 --> 0:05:31.000 production in New South Wales. 0:05:31.040 --> 0:05:32.560 So I don't know how they're going to get around it. 0:05:32.720 --> 0:05:37.000 Queensland Premier Stephen Miles, South Australia's Peter Melanowskis and Western 0:05:37.000 --> 0:05:41.120 Australia's Roger Cook made that rejection universal. 0:05:41.279 --> 0:05:44.800 The only known fact is that it's the most expensive 0:05:44.800 --> 0:05:46.880 form of power out there. 0:05:46.839 --> 0:05:49.400 And Scott At this stage, even the state Liberal and 0:05:49.480 --> 0:05:53.640 National Party oppositions are very cool on the idea, though 0:05:53.680 --> 0:05:57.960 they are choosing their words carefully. Victorian Opposition leader John 0:05:57.960 --> 0:06:02.560 Persuto says he has no plans to introduce nuclear, and 0:06:02.760 --> 0:06:07.279 Queensland Opposition leader David Chris Afuley, who looks like becoming 0:06:07.320 --> 0:06:10.400 the next premiere of that state, well, he says he's 0:06:10.480 --> 0:06:14.719 been clear that nuclear was not part of his plan. 0:06:15.600 --> 0:06:18.839 Then there's the energy companies who own most of these sites. 0:06:19.240 --> 0:06:23.320 We got a chorus of doubt or rejection from them. AGL, 0:06:23.400 --> 0:06:27.159 one of the biggest companies, simply reissued comments their CEO 0:06:27.320 --> 0:06:31.440 made back in March. He said and quote, there's no 0:06:31.760 --> 0:06:35.400 viable schedule for the regulation or development of nuclear energy 0:06:35.440 --> 0:06:39.360 in Australia and the cost, build time and public opinion 0:06:39.680 --> 0:06:43.000 are all prohibitive. All of this, scot goes to the 0:06:43.000 --> 0:06:46.200 biggest issue with the plan, the timeline. 0:06:46.400 --> 0:06:50.040 Now, what do we know from today's announcement. The only 0:06:50.080 --> 0:06:53.600 details they released is an admission that even on their 0:06:53.640 --> 0:06:58.039 own timetable, which is hugely ambitious, they couldn't get a 0:06:58.080 --> 0:07:01.640 nuclear actor up in Australia until twenty thirty five or 0:07:01.680 --> 0:07:02.559 twenty thirty seven. 0:07:02.800 --> 0:07:05.800 This was the central point made by Labour's Climate change 0:07:05.800 --> 0:07:09.400 and energy spokesman Chris Bowen. He called a press conference 0:07:09.520 --> 0:07:13.280 hours later to lay out the case against what he 0:07:13.360 --> 0:07:18.320 called a risky nuclear scam, saying that twenty thirty five 0:07:18.640 --> 0:07:22.080 is too far away and even if the Opposition somehow 0:07:22.360 --> 0:07:26.480 could deliver it would defy every example on record. 0:07:26.760 --> 0:07:29.840 We now have a clear choice, the Australian people now 0:07:29.880 --> 0:07:33.440 have a very clear choice. Stick with the plan or 0:07:33.480 --> 0:07:38.120 go with this uncosted, unmodeled fantasy that mister Dutton is 0:07:38.160 --> 0:07:38.920 proposing today. 0:07:39.680 --> 0:07:43.200 Bowen said it would be the fastest nuclear rollout in 0:07:43.240 --> 0:07:47.880 the world in a country that doesn't have a nuclear industry. 0:07:48.160 --> 0:07:51.600 Mister Dutton's isolated here. He's isolated from his state and 0:07:51.680 --> 0:07:55.640 territory parties. He's isolated from the business community, he's isolated 0:07:55.680 --> 0:07:59.600 from the science community, he's isolated from sensible policy. Mister 0:07:59.680 --> 0:08:00.920 Dutton out on his time. 0:08:01.040 --> 0:08:05.040 And the CSIRO and the Australian Energy Market Operator agree 0:08:05.080 --> 0:08:09.000 with him. Their recent report found the earliest Australia could 0:08:09.040 --> 0:08:12.920 get nuclear online was twenty forty and that it would 0:08:12.960 --> 0:08:18.200 be more expensive than renewables. But Dutton is undeterred. He's 0:08:18.400 --> 0:08:21.920 hinted he'll use the constitutional powers of the federal government 0:08:22.320 --> 0:08:26.560 to override the states and their bands on nuclear and 0:08:26.720 --> 0:08:31.080 he'll use forced acquisition of the aging sites from their 0:08:31.120 --> 0:08:37.800 private or state government owners Scott. The practicalities are only 0:08:37.960 --> 0:08:42.319 one aspect of this, because this isn't just a policy proposal. 0:08:43.040 --> 0:08:45.800 It's also a political weapon, right Paul. 0:08:45.880 --> 0:08:48.880 Let's talk about that, because plenty of opposition leaders, including 0:08:49.040 --> 0:08:52.560 Peter Dutton himself at times, have made political wins with 0:08:52.679 --> 0:08:56.560 policies that have had some practical challenges. But is nuclear 0:08:56.600 --> 0:08:58.800 power really going to win people over? 0:08:59.320 --> 0:09:02.320 Well, there's no doubt Dutton has managed to get Australians 0:09:02.360 --> 0:09:05.840 to be open to the idea of nuclear energy. The 0:09:06.080 --> 0:09:08.120 opinion polls reflect that I want. 0:09:08.000 --> 0:09:10.360 To help families get their power bills down. I want 0:09:10.400 --> 0:09:13.800 electricity costs to be cheaper in our country. I want 0:09:13.800 --> 0:09:17.680 them to be I want businesses in particular, but families 0:09:17.679 --> 0:09:20.400 as well to have consistent or reliable power, and I 0:09:20.440 --> 0:09:24.200 want greener power. But at the moment the government is 0:09:24.240 --> 0:09:26.400 slowly choking the Australian economy. 0:09:26.600 --> 0:09:29.240 But being open to the idea that sometime in the 0:09:29.280 --> 0:09:33.880 future nuclear reactors will be built in these specified communities 0:09:34.600 --> 0:09:37.760 is not the same as delivering them, and when push 0:09:37.840 --> 0:09:42.560 comes to shove, the risks may well deter acceptance. But 0:09:42.640 --> 0:09:45.800 the biggest weakness is that this plan has a twenty 0:09:45.960 --> 0:09:49.360 fifty deadline. Dutton is tying it to the cost of 0:09:49.480 --> 0:09:54.319 energy now, but nothing he announced yesterday will lower energy 0:09:54.360 --> 0:09:58.079 prices in the next three years. So the acid test 0:09:58.120 --> 0:10:02.160 will be on Anthony Albanizi's abilit to prosecute this case 0:10:02.440 --> 0:10:07.480 and convince voters. Dutton is determined not to die wondering, 0:10:08.000 --> 0:10:11.440 and he seized a moment that he's judged, and his 0:10:11.600 --> 0:10:15.120 judgment is supported by the latest batch of opinion polls 0:10:15.679 --> 0:10:19.760 that he has as much personal credibility as his opponent, 0:10:20.040 --> 0:10:23.680 the Prime Minister, Anthony Obernizi. So he doesn't want to 0:10:23.679 --> 0:10:27.120 waste any time and we'll spend the next twelve months 0:10:27.160 --> 0:10:31.040 ahead of the election intent on setting the political agenda. 0:10:34.360 --> 0:10:37.200 After the break the Canberra visit that gave us a 0:10:37.240 --> 0:10:50.120 window into our energy future. Paul, we're talking about this 0:10:50.280 --> 0:10:53.080 nuclear plan and I want to talk about what this 0:10:53.240 --> 0:10:55.960 means for the future here, Paul. If we went with 0:10:56.160 --> 0:11:00.600 nuclear power and abandoned a lot of this renewable shift 0:11:00.640 --> 0:11:03.800 we're trying to make happen right now, what would that mean. 0:11:04.400 --> 0:11:07.679 Well from the liberals point of view. Susan Lee attempted 0:11:07.679 --> 0:11:10.600 to frame the plan as a policy for the future, 0:11:10.600 --> 0:11:13.960 providing jobs, manufacturing for the next generation. 0:11:14.600 --> 0:11:16.800 Thank you, Peter, and thank you for your clear eyed 0:11:16.880 --> 0:11:20.200 and consistent leadership on an issue that is so vital 0:11:20.280 --> 0:11:22.920 for the future of our country, for our children and 0:11:23.040 --> 0:11:28.360 our grandchildren. How can this Prime Minister promise a future 0:11:28.559 --> 0:11:33.040 made in Australia when he can't keep the lights on today. 0:11:33.880 --> 0:11:37.600 In order to have that future made in Australia, we 0:11:37.800 --> 0:11:40.560 have to have nuclear energy in the mix. 0:11:40.960 --> 0:11:44.280 But we're seeing a huge global pivot to renewables man 0:11:44.400 --> 0:11:48.720 Australia is uniquely placed to take advantage. We've got a 0:11:48.760 --> 0:11:51.920 stark preview of that this week with Chinese Premier League 0:11:51.960 --> 0:11:56.120 Chang visiting Canberra. He's the highest ranking representative of our 0:11:56.160 --> 0:11:59.600 biggest trading partner to come in seven years. And while 0:11:59.600 --> 0:12:02.600 there was a lot of focus on pandas and on 0:12:02.760 --> 0:12:07.200 protests outside Parliament House, his main mission here was to 0:12:07.240 --> 0:12:11.200 strengthen trade ties. And that's because China is desperate to 0:12:11.240 --> 0:12:16.200 have access to Australia's critical minerals. It's less about coal 0:12:16.240 --> 0:12:20.480 and iron ore, although they still massively feature, but more 0:12:20.520 --> 0:12:25.560 about minerals that fuel the energy transition, like lithium. But 0:12:25.679 --> 0:12:29.160 you know, China produces ninety percent of the world's solar 0:12:29.200 --> 0:12:33.480 panels and is becoming the leader in batteries, and the 0:12:33.600 --> 0:12:38.360 International Energy Agency says China itself in the next five 0:12:38.480 --> 0:12:42.240 years will account for fifty six percent of the world's 0:12:42.360 --> 0:12:47.559 additional renewable energy. Australia, according to the Smart Energy Council, 0:12:47.880 --> 0:12:50.920 has a huge opportunity not just to ship the or 0:12:51.080 --> 0:12:54.320 to China or America, but that we can become a 0:12:54.400 --> 0:12:59.160 world leader in processing, refining and manufacturing what the world 0:12:59.240 --> 0:13:03.440 economy is going to be increasingly in desperate need of. 0:13:04.320 --> 0:13:06.760 And it's important to note that while China does have 0:13:06.880 --> 0:13:11.800 nuclear power, it plans to rely less on it. Right now, 0:13:11.920 --> 0:13:16.000 nuclear accounts for only four point six percent of China's energy, 0:13:16.360 --> 0:13:20.680 while renewables account for thirty percent of total generation, and 0:13:20.840 --> 0:13:25.319 they're growing. The China Hawks and the Coalition, like Senator 0:13:25.400 --> 0:13:29.280 James Patterson or Barnaby Joyce keep the emphasis on our 0:13:29.440 --> 0:13:33.240 values differences. Well, China says it wants to shelve these 0:13:33.280 --> 0:13:37.640 differences and work on those interests we have in common 0:13:38.040 --> 0:13:39.800 for our mutual prosperity. 0:13:40.480 --> 0:13:44.440 And so finally, Paul, we have a major policy announcement 0:13:44.480 --> 0:13:47.080 from the opposition, and we have the Prime Minister falling 0:13:47.160 --> 0:13:49.880 behind the opposition leader for the first time in a 0:13:49.920 --> 0:13:52.880 major poll. And there have been a lot of moments 0:13:52.920 --> 0:13:54.840 in this term of government that we're going to look 0:13:54.920 --> 0:13:58.360 back on as defining it, whether it's Peter Dutton's decision 0:13:58.400 --> 0:14:01.360 to oppose the Voice alb Easy to make the tax 0:14:01.400 --> 0:14:04.600 cuts a bit more equal. Is this week going to 0:14:04.600 --> 0:14:06.199 be one of those moments? 0:14:06.520 --> 0:14:09.480 Well, Scott, it could well be, but there's much more 0:14:09.559 --> 0:14:13.240 to play out. An aggregate of all the published polls 0:14:13.480 --> 0:14:17.000 still has the government just in front and either maintaining 0:14:17.000 --> 0:14:21.160 its slim majority or going into minority. But a week 0:14:21.280 --> 0:14:24.520 is a long time in politics, and Labor is counting 0:14:24.520 --> 0:14:26.920 on the tax cuts arriving in a matter of days 0:14:27.360 --> 0:14:31.400 and the energy bill relief to make voters less grumpy 0:14:31.440 --> 0:14:35.160 with it. So we'll see. You know, there's that old 0:14:35.200 --> 0:14:39.800 proverb often attributed to China that may you live in 0:14:39.800 --> 0:14:43.640 interesting times. It certainly seems to be playing out at 0:14:43.640 --> 0:14:44.040 the moment. 0:14:46.640 --> 0:14:49.320 Paul, thanks so much for your time. It's always a pleasure. 0:14:49.600 --> 0:14:54.080 Thank you, Scott. Bye. 0:15:01.000 --> 0:15:04.320 Also in the news today, undercover shoppers have found near 0:15:04.400 --> 0:15:08.160 identical prices being charged for groceries at both Coals and 0:15:08.240 --> 0:15:14.200 Woolworth's raising competition concerns. The price comparison run by consumer 0:15:14.240 --> 0:15:17.240 group Choice found that there was less than a one 0:15:17.320 --> 0:15:21.040 dollar price difference in a basket containing fourteen common items 0:15:21.040 --> 0:15:24.960 bought at both major supermarkets, while a basket of comparable 0:15:25.000 --> 0:15:29.200 items bought at Aldi cost twenty five percent less. And 0:15:29.360 --> 0:15:33.240 in an interview on Israeli TV, Israel's chief army spokesman 0:15:33.680 --> 0:15:36.640 said that her mask cannot be eliminated and that claims 0:15:36.640 --> 0:15:40.200 the militant group could was quote throwing sand in the 0:15:40.240 --> 0:15:44.240 eyes of the public. The military quickly issued a clarification 0:15:44.360 --> 0:15:47.640 saying the comments were referring to Hamas as an ideology, 0:15:48.320 --> 0:15:51.560 but the initial statements appear to suggest a rift between 0:15:51.600 --> 0:15:57.240 the military and political leadership in Israel. Seven Am is 0:15:57.280 --> 0:16:01.000 a daily show from Schwartz Media and The Saturday. It's 0:16:01.040 --> 0:16:05.880 produced by Kara Jensen, McKinnon, Shane Anderson, and Zulton Fetcho. 0:16:06.440 --> 0:16:11.280 Our senior producer is Christengate. Our technical producer is Atticus Basto. 0:16:11.800 --> 0:16:15.120 Our host is Ashlan McGee. Sarah McVie is our head 0:16:15.120 --> 0:16:19.200 of audio. Eric Jensen is our editor in chief. Mixing 0:16:19.240 --> 0:16:23.120 by Travis Evans and Atticus Basto. Our theme music is 0:16:23.160 --> 0:16:27.400 by Ned Beckley and Josh Hogan of Envelope Audio, and 0:16:27.560 --> 0:16:30.520 I'm Scott Mitchell, the editor of seven AM. Thank you 0:16:30.840 --> 0:16:33.560 so much for listening. We'll see you next week.