Speaker 1: From Schwartz Media. I'm Scott Mitchell. This is seven am.
Speaker 1: Nuclear power has been politically toxic in this country for decades.
Speaker 1: That's why it's been fifty five years since a leader
Speaker 1: won an election promising to build nuclear reactors. But Peter
Speaker 1: Dutton is betting at all that he can do it,
Speaker 1: and as strange as it sounds, he's convincing people. A
Speaker 1: little over ten years ago, sixty two percent of Australians
Speaker 1: opposed nuclear power. Today poles are showing the majority support it.
Speaker 1: So how has a policy so beset with challenges and
Speaker 1: criticism won people over? Today Columnist for the Saturday Paper,
Speaker 1: Paul Bonjorno on why a policy that may never work
Speaker 1: can still be a political weapon. It's Friday, June twenty one.
Speaker 2: Paul.
Speaker 1: It's been long promised, long anticipated, But this week Peter
Speaker 1: Dutton finally went from a fairly vague nuclear promise to
Speaker 1: announcing a nuclear policy he'll take to the next election. First,
Speaker 1: just how big a moment is this for the opposition?
Speaker 2: Well, Scott, this is Peter Dutton's crazy, brave moment. It's
Speaker 2: born of a desperation as a first term opposition leader
Speaker 2: trying to achieve the rare feat of knocking off a
Speaker 2: first term prime minister and government.
Speaker 3: Okay, Fron, thank you very much for being here today.
Speaker 3: I'm very pleased to be joined by my colleagues because
Speaker 3: this is a major announcement to the future of our country.
Speaker 3: Is incredibly important and we need to have a plan
Speaker 3: for the economy. We need to have a plan for jobs,
Speaker 3: and we need to have a plan for cheaper electricity.
Speaker 2: The news conference in Sydney was a firm statement that
Speaker 2: the leadership of the coalition parties was all on side
Speaker 2: with his attempt to paint seven nuclear reactors sometime in
Speaker 2: the next thirty years as the answer to all struggling
Speaker 2: Australian's problems.
Speaker 4: Well, thanks, Dada. It's a proud day to be the
Speaker 4: Nationals leader. This has been a long held view of
Speaker 4: the National Party. But it's proud of me to stand
Speaker 4: here with my coalition friends, led by Peter Dutton, who's
Speaker 4: had the courage of the conviction to come forward, to
Speaker 4: stand forward and show a different way for Australia.
Speaker 2: He was joined by the Leader of the Nationals David
Speaker 2: little Brown, his Deputy Leader, Susan Lee, Shadow Minister for
Speaker 2: Climate Change and Energy, Ted O'Brien, he's the architect of
Speaker 2: the yet to be fully and credibly released plan and finally,
Speaker 2: Shadow Treasurer Angus.
Speaker 3: Taylor today, I want the very clear focus to be
Speaker 3: on the fact that the sites we're proposing end of
Speaker 3: use call fire POWERstation sites. So when you hear labor
Speaker 3: go out and say is it going to be in
Speaker 3: this park? Will it be on this beach? All of
Speaker 3: that childish behavior that we'll expect from the Prime minister.
Speaker 2: What we got was the sites for the proposed nuclear
Speaker 2: reactors as flagged or on current coal fired power stations
Speaker 2: to in Queensland, to in New South Wales, one in
Speaker 2: South Australia, one in Victoria and one in Western Australia,
Speaker 2: and we had the claim the first of them would
Speaker 2: be online by twenty thirty five to twenty thirty seven.
Speaker 1: Actually I'm ordering christ tag whatever it is.
Speaker 5: Where does that money come from or where does it
Speaker 5: taken from and might not get invested?
Speaker 3: Well, again, it comes from the same place that the
Speaker 3: snowy hydro funds come from, or the subsidies around solar
Speaker 3: and win now it comes from the Australian taxpayer. The
Speaker 3: Australian government doesn't have any money without the Australian taxpayers.
Speaker 3: So that's a decision for the government of the day
Speaker 3: as to whether it's a wise investment.
Speaker 2: But Scott the most stunning part of the announcement was
Speaker 2: the Liberals abandoning their holy writ of a free market
Speaker 2: and private enterprise, knowing best and best able to del hover.
Speaker 2: The taxpayers of Australia will be asked to stump up
Speaker 2: the as yet unspecified billions of dollars, and in what
Speaker 2: would make any socialist proud, the Australian government will own
Speaker 2: and operate these power stations.
Speaker 3: The assets will be owned by the Commonwealth, a very
Speaker 3: important point. And we'll work with experts to deliver these programs,
Speaker 3: will work with the state premiers. Some debate about that
Speaker 3: I see.
Speaker 2: Of course, don't mention the waste or the safety issues,
Speaker 2: or how the local communities will be involved. Dutton says
Speaker 2: we'll get all those answers in due course. But when
Speaker 2: that is, and whether it'll be before the election or after,
Speaker 2: it is far from clear.
Speaker 3: If we're want to set our country up for the future,
Speaker 3: if we're going to bring those electricity prices down, if
Speaker 3: we want to make a stable economy and if we
Speaker 3: want to grow that economy, and if we want to
Speaker 3: grow jobs for generations to come, our country must seize
Speaker 3: this opportunity.
Speaker 1: Now, right, Paul, A few hurdles to overcome. Do we
Speaker 1: have a sense yet how serious those kind of practical
Speaker 1: challenges are with this policy?
Speaker 2: Well, State labor premiers immediately came out against the plan.
Speaker 2: New South Wales Chris Min's and Victoria's Jacinta Allen reminded
Speaker 2: us that even if Dutton removed federal legislation that bans
Speaker 2: nuclear power stations, states like theirs have their own bands
Speaker 2: and they won't be lifting them.
Speaker 4: We're not going to remove the nuclear prohibition on energy
Speaker 4: production in New South Wales.
Speaker 2: So I don't know how they're going to get around it.
Speaker 2: Queensland Premier Stephen Miles, South Australia's Peter Melanowskis and Western
Speaker 2: Australia's Roger Cook made that rejection universal.
Speaker 4: The only known fact is that it's the most expensive
Speaker 4: form of power out there.
Speaker 2: And Scott At this stage, even the state Liberal and
Speaker 2: National Party oppositions are very cool on the idea, though
Speaker 2: they are choosing their words carefully. Victorian Opposition leader John
Speaker 2: Persuto says he has no plans to introduce nuclear, and
Speaker 2: Queensland Opposition leader David Chris Afuley, who looks like becoming
Speaker 2: the next premiere of that state, well, he says he's
Speaker 2: been clear that nuclear was not part of his plan.
Speaker 2: Then there's the energy companies who own most of these sites.
Speaker 2: We got a chorus of doubt or rejection from them. AGL,
Speaker 2: one of the biggest companies, simply reissued comments their CEO
Speaker 2: made back in March. He said and quote, there's no
Speaker 2: viable schedule for the regulation or development of nuclear energy
Speaker 2: in Australia and the cost, build time and public opinion
Speaker 2: are all prohibitive. All of this, scot goes to the
Speaker 2: biggest issue with the plan, the timeline.
Speaker 6: Now, what do we know from today's announcement. The only
Speaker 6: details they released is an admission that even on their
Speaker 6: own timetable, which is hugely ambitious, they couldn't get a
Speaker 6: nuclear actor up in Australia until twenty thirty five or
Speaker 6: twenty thirty seven.
Speaker 2: This was the central point made by Labour's Climate change
Speaker 2: and energy spokesman Chris Bowen. He called a press conference
Speaker 2: hours later to lay out the case against what he
Speaker 2: called a risky nuclear scam, saying that twenty thirty five
Speaker 2: is too far away and even if the Opposition somehow
Speaker 2: could deliver it would defy every example on record.
Speaker 6: We now have a clear choice, the Australian people now
Speaker 6: have a very clear choice. Stick with the plan or
Speaker 6: go with this uncosted, unmodeled fantasy that mister Dutton is
Speaker 6: proposing today.
Speaker 2: Bowen said it would be the fastest nuclear rollout in
Speaker 2: the world in a country that doesn't have a nuclear industry.
Speaker 6: Mister Dutton's isolated here. He's isolated from his state and
Speaker 6: territory parties. He's isolated from the business community, he's isolated
Speaker 6: from the science community, he's isolated from sensible policy. Mister
Speaker 6: Dutton out on his time.
Speaker 2: And the CSIRO and the Australian Energy Market Operator agree
Speaker 2: with him. Their recent report found the earliest Australia could
Speaker 2: get nuclear online was twenty forty and that it would
Speaker 2: be more expensive than renewables. But Dutton is undeterred. He's
Speaker 2: hinted he'll use the constitutional powers of the federal government
Speaker 2: to override the states and their bands on nuclear and
Speaker 2: he'll use forced acquisition of the aging sites from their
Speaker 2: private or state government owners Scott. The practicalities are only
Speaker 2: one aspect of this, because this isn't just a policy proposal.
Speaker 2: It's also a political weapon, right Paul.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about that, because plenty of opposition leaders, including
Speaker 1: Peter Dutton himself at times, have made political wins with
Speaker 1: policies that have had some practical challenges. But is nuclear
Speaker 1: power really going to win people over?
Speaker 2: Well, there's no doubt Dutton has managed to get Australians
Speaker 2: to be open to the idea of nuclear energy. The
Speaker 2: opinion polls reflect that I want.
Speaker 3: To help families get their power bills down. I want
Speaker 3: electricity costs to be cheaper in our country. I want
Speaker 3: them to be I want businesses in particular, but families
Speaker 3: as well to have consistent or reliable power, and I
Speaker 3: want greener power. But at the moment the government is
Speaker 3: slowly choking the Australian economy.
Speaker 2: But being open to the idea that sometime in the
Speaker 2: future nuclear reactors will be built in these specified communities
Speaker 2: is not the same as delivering them, and when push
Speaker 2: comes to shove, the risks may well deter acceptance. But
Speaker 2: the biggest weakness is that this plan has a twenty
Speaker 2: fifty deadline. Dutton is tying it to the cost of
Speaker 2: energy now, but nothing he announced yesterday will lower energy
Speaker 2: prices in the next three years. So the acid test
Speaker 2: will be on Anthony Albanizi's abilit to prosecute this case
Speaker 2: and convince voters. Dutton is determined not to die wondering,
Speaker 2: and he seized a moment that he's judged, and his
Speaker 2: judgment is supported by the latest batch of opinion polls
Speaker 2: that he has as much personal credibility as his opponent,
Speaker 2: the Prime Minister, Anthony Obernizi. So he doesn't want to
Speaker 2: waste any time and we'll spend the next twelve months
Speaker 2: ahead of the election intent on setting the political agenda.
Speaker 1: After the break the Canberra visit that gave us a
Speaker 1: window into our energy future. Paul, we're talking about this
Speaker 1: nuclear plan and I want to talk about what this
Speaker 1: means for the future here, Paul. If we went with
Speaker 1: nuclear power and abandoned a lot of this renewable shift
Speaker 1: we're trying to make happen right now, what would that mean.
Speaker 2: Well from the liberals point of view. Susan Lee attempted
Speaker 2: to frame the plan as a policy for the future,
Speaker 2: providing jobs, manufacturing for the next generation.
Speaker 5: Thank you, Peter, and thank you for your clear eyed
Speaker 5: and consistent leadership on an issue that is so vital
Speaker 5: for the future of our country, for our children and
Speaker 5: our grandchildren. How can this Prime Minister promise a future
Speaker 5: made in Australia when he can't keep the lights on today.
Speaker 5: In order to have that future made in Australia, we
Speaker 5: have to have nuclear energy in the mix.
Speaker 2: But we're seeing a huge global pivot to renewables man
Speaker 2: Australia is uniquely placed to take advantage. We've got a
Speaker 2: stark preview of that this week with Chinese Premier League
Speaker 2: Chang visiting Canberra. He's the highest ranking representative of our
Speaker 2: biggest trading partner to come in seven years. And while
Speaker 2: there was a lot of focus on pandas and on
Speaker 2: protests outside Parliament House, his main mission here was to
Speaker 2: strengthen trade ties. And that's because China is desperate to
Speaker 2: have access to Australia's critical minerals. It's less about coal
Speaker 2: and iron ore, although they still massively feature, but more
Speaker 2: about minerals that fuel the energy transition, like lithium. But
Speaker 2: you know, China produces ninety percent of the world's solar
Speaker 2: panels and is becoming the leader in batteries, and the
Speaker 2: International Energy Agency says China itself in the next five
Speaker 2: years will account for fifty six percent of the world's
Speaker 2: additional renewable energy. Australia, according to the Smart Energy Council,
Speaker 2: has a huge opportunity not just to ship the or
Speaker 2: to China or America, but that we can become a
Speaker 2: world leader in processing, refining and manufacturing what the world
Speaker 2: economy is going to be increasingly in desperate need of.
Speaker 2: And it's important to note that while China does have
Speaker 2: nuclear power, it plans to rely less on it. Right now,
Speaker 2: nuclear accounts for only four point six percent of China's energy,
Speaker 2: while renewables account for thirty percent of total generation, and
Speaker 2: they're growing. The China Hawks and the Coalition, like Senator
Speaker 2: James Patterson or Barnaby Joyce keep the emphasis on our
Speaker 2: values differences. Well, China says it wants to shelve these
Speaker 2: differences and work on those interests we have in common
Speaker 2: for our mutual prosperity.
Speaker 1: And so finally, Paul, we have a major policy announcement
Speaker 1: from the opposition, and we have the Prime Minister falling
Speaker 1: behind the opposition leader for the first time in a
Speaker 1: major poll. And there have been a lot of moments
Speaker 1: in this term of government that we're going to look
Speaker 1: back on as defining it, whether it's Peter Dutton's decision
Speaker 1: to oppose the Voice alb Easy to make the tax
Speaker 1: cuts a bit more equal. Is this week going to
Speaker 1: be one of those moments?
Speaker 2: Well, Scott, it could well be, but there's much more
Speaker 2: to play out. An aggregate of all the published polls
Speaker 2: still has the government just in front and either maintaining
Speaker 2: its slim majority or going into minority. But a week
Speaker 2: is a long time in politics, and Labor is counting
Speaker 2: on the tax cuts arriving in a matter of days
Speaker 2: and the energy bill relief to make voters less grumpy
Speaker 2: with it. So we'll see. You know, there's that old
Speaker 2: proverb often attributed to China that may you live in
Speaker 2: interesting times. It certainly seems to be playing out at
Speaker 2: the moment.
Speaker 1: Paul, thanks so much for your time. It's always a pleasure.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Scott. Bye.
Speaker 1: Also in the news today, undercover shoppers have found near
Speaker 1: identical prices being charged for groceries at both Coals and
Speaker 1: Woolworth's raising competition concerns. The price comparison run by consumer
Speaker 1: group Choice found that there was less than a one
Speaker 1: dollar price difference in a basket containing fourteen common items
Speaker 1: bought at both major supermarkets, while a basket of comparable
Speaker 1: items bought at Aldi cost twenty five percent less. And
Speaker 1: in an interview on Israeli TV, Israel's chief army spokesman
Speaker 1: said that her mask cannot be eliminated and that claims
Speaker 1: the militant group could was quote throwing sand in the
Speaker 1: eyes of the public. The military quickly issued a clarification
Speaker 1: saying the comments were referring to Hamas as an ideology,
Speaker 1: but the initial statements appear to suggest a rift between
Speaker 1: the military and political leadership in Israel. Seven Am is
Speaker 1: a daily show from Schwartz Media and The Saturday. It's
Speaker 1: produced by Kara Jensen, McKinnon, Shane Anderson, and Zulton Fetcho.
Speaker 1: Our senior producer is Christengate. Our technical producer is Atticus Basto.
Speaker 1: Our host is Ashlan McGee. Sarah McVie is our head
Speaker 1: of audio. Eric Jensen is our editor in chief. Mixing
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Speaker 1: by Ned Beckley and Josh Hogan of Envelope Audio, and
Speaker 1: I'm Scott Mitchell, the editor of seven AM. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much for listening. We'll see you next week.