Speaker 1: Apoche Production. Welcome to another episode of Brave Always the
Speaker 1: CEO series. This series we launched into the new world
Speaker 1: of brave leadership.
Speaker 2: Happy people create happy businesses, true.
Speaker 1: Emotionally intelligent leadership. I've picked up Vombit once on our
Speaker 1: about our four flight and everybody thought, well it was
Speaker 1: good enough for him. I can do it now. We
Speaker 1: will be joined by culture and leadership experts and some
Speaker 1: superstar CEOs who will courageously tell us the truth behind
Speaker 1: their brave leadership journeys. Today I'm joined by one of
Speaker 1: my absolute saves, Laurie Argus. Laurie Agus is the CEO
Speaker 1: of Melbourne Airport and took up this role in twenty
Speaker 1: twenty two after seven years as Chief of Aviation and
Speaker 1: Chief of Ground Transport. Laurie started her career in Canada
Speaker 1: before relocating to Australia and joining Virgin Australia. In her
Speaker 1: teen years at the airline, she was appointed Manager of
Speaker 1: International Airport Operations and General Manager of Ground Operations in
Speaker 1: twenty seventeen. Lauri Greg wed with an Executive NBA from
Speaker 1: Bond University. Laurie is an active member of Chief Executive
Speaker 1: Women and of the Australian Institute of Directors and became
Speaker 1: a graduate of AICD in twenty nineteen. Laurie is also
Speaker 1: a non executive director of the Australian Airport Association Airport
Speaker 1: Council International World Governing Board. She's also a wife, a
Speaker 1: mom to two beautiful kids, and just one of those
Speaker 1: people who lights up the room when you walk in. Welcome, Laurie,
Speaker 1: is so great to have you here today.
Speaker 2: Oh thanks, Emma, thanks for such a nice intro.
Speaker 1: Look. I can't start this without noting that Laurie and
Speaker 1: I met back in Virgin Blue days, well over sixteen
Speaker 1: plus years ago, and Laurie, you were one of the
Speaker 1: first female influencers for me in a senior leadership role
Speaker 1: that I looked up to. I'm sure I've told you
Speaker 1: that that is the truth. You have me there. It
Speaker 1: was true even back then. I think you had this
Speaker 1: presence about you, like you were championing the flag for
Speaker 1: women in leadership. Was that always like a goal of
Speaker 1: yours or did you not even know you were doing that?
Speaker 2: I one hundred percent didn't know I was doing that.
Speaker 2: And I'll tell you why I know that.
Speaker 3: I mean, I.
Speaker 2: Remember being alone, I remember being the only female in
Speaker 2: the management ranks at Virgin my boss at the time
Speaker 2: when I was a middle manager, there was ten of
Speaker 2: us and I was the only female. And I remember
Speaker 2: going up against all the other men in the GM job,
Speaker 2: and I had a great executive HR at the time
Speaker 2: who was advocating for diversity, and I'm not sure if
Speaker 2: he wasn't around that I would have got that job,
Speaker 2: because he was pretty passionate about it and he really
Speaker 2: supported me through that recruitment process. But talking about women,
Speaker 2: it was years later when I had somebody tell me
Speaker 2: I was a feminist and I said to him, I said, oh,
Speaker 2: I don't know if I'm a feminist, Like genuinely, I
Speaker 2: answered the question honestly. I said, I don't know if
Speaker 2: I do properly advocate for women or if I'm a feminist.
Speaker 2: And she said, well, do you believe in equal pay
Speaker 2: for women? And I said, well, yeah, obviously. And she
Speaker 2: said do you believe in equal opportunities for women? And
Speaker 2: I said yes, of course, and then she said, well, congratulations,
Speaker 2: you're a feminist. So it wasn't until I kind of
Speaker 2: had that conversation with her that I really started digging
Speaker 2: into what it meant to really lift women up and
Speaker 2: advocate for women, and so I'm far better at it nowadays.
Speaker 2: Maybe it was informal.
Speaker 1: Formal Yeah, okay, So I ask you where about that?
Speaker 1: So where your family decided to leave Canada and migrate
Speaker 1: to Australia. There must have been a guess, a huge
Speaker 1: decision for the family and quite a change. How did
Speaker 1: you cope with that? So? How old were you when
Speaker 1: you did move here? Well?
Speaker 2: I came by myself, so, which is a funny story
Speaker 2: in itself, because I was sitting in Edmonton, Alberta. I
Speaker 2: was working at night shift in network operations seven pm
Speaker 2: to seven am. It was minus forty nine in the
Speaker 2: middle of winter, and a.
Speaker 3: Job ad for Brisbane, Australia came across the fax machine.
Speaker 3: I'm like, across the fax machine, I just went, I've
Speaker 3: got to get out of here. I can't live in
Speaker 3: this weather anymore. So I just applied and everyone told me.
Speaker 2: You know, I was twenty six, so everyone was like,
Speaker 2: You're never going to get an airport manager job at
Speaker 2: twenty six across the world. It was one of our
Speaker 2: key stations we were launching Australia, and I'm like, well,
Speaker 2: you know what, I'm just going to try ironically. You know,
Speaker 2: of course women shouldn't always say it was luck that
Speaker 2: they got an opportunity, but I do think in that
Speaker 2: experience it was a little bit of luck and a
Speaker 2: little bit of talent because I was easily movable, and
Speaker 2: I was up against a lot of other really high
Speaker 2: caliber candidates, but they had families and their kids needed schools,
Speaker 2: and they needed visas, and there was all these complications.
Speaker 2: So I think when I said, hey, I can be
Speaker 2: in Australia in four weeks and just stick me in
Speaker 2: a hotel and let's get started, I think that was
Speaker 2: quite attractive to the management. And so I moved and
Speaker 2: I packed up and left my family in Canada. I
Speaker 2: lived at the Seeble in Brisbane for about six months,
Speaker 2: and then I helped start the airline in Australia. So
Speaker 2: one of the scariest times of my life. I never
Speaker 2: went out for months. I didn't have any friends. I
Speaker 2: wasn't brave enough back then to go out to dinner
Speaker 2: by myself or to a movie by myself. I certainly
Speaker 2: do that all the time now, but back then it was,
Speaker 2: you know, I just stayed in my hotel room and worked.
Speaker 1: How did you get through that? Like, I mean, it's
Speaker 1: a big thing to jump at a plan and come
Speaker 1: hit me. You didn't even know what it was like
Speaker 1: working in Australia. Was it was it a different way
Speaker 1: of working? What was it going to be?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 1: Where did you get that confidence from?
Speaker 2: I don't know where it comes from deep within me,
Speaker 2: but I just have this drive to just never give up,
Speaker 2: and I have this kind of resilience and or grit.
Speaker 2: I think I've been working through trying to work out
Speaker 2: what it is. But I think I had kind of
Speaker 2: a pretty bumpy use and I just think it's taught
Speaker 2: me just to push hard. And of course I was terrified.
Speaker 2: I mean I got on the plane. It was the
Speaker 2: middle of winter there, it was the middle of summer here.
Speaker 2: I remember being so hot, and ironically it was only
Speaker 2: April in prison, so it wasn't that bad. And I
Speaker 2: had this moment in the hotel where I went you
Speaker 2: know what. Because the airline hadn't set up yet, I
Speaker 2: was doing all the work remotely, so I was negotiating
Speaker 2: with quantas to do our ground handling remotely. I wasn't
Speaker 2: yet positioned at the airport because we didn't have aircraft here.
Speaker 2: And it was about one or two weeks in that
Speaker 2: I had this moment where I went, you know what,
Speaker 2: I'm completely alone, and even if something happened to me,
Speaker 2: like you know what, my parents probably wouldn't work it
Speaker 2: out until they didn't get an email for me a
Speaker 2: week later. But I must say I had this beautiful
Speaker 2: concierge at the hotel who every day when I'd work,
Speaker 2: he'd come up and he'd be like, what are you
Speaker 2: going to do this weekend, Laurie, And I'm like, well,
Speaker 2: I'm working. And he was the one that pushed me
Speaker 2: literally on my first bus down to the pineapple farm.
Speaker 2: He convinced me to go on some tours. I met
Speaker 2: a few people, like he was quite influential, Like you know,
Speaker 2: there was lots of times of loneliness, but he kind
Speaker 2: of pushed me around. And then you know, six months in,
Speaker 2: once I was starting at the airport, I met lots
Speaker 2: of great people and kind of the rest is history.
Speaker 1: Twenty six is pretty young right to go into a
Speaker 1: leadership role, and then also added to that, you know,
Speaker 1: you ought to be one of the few female leaders there.
Speaker 1: Did you experience any doubt from other people like you're
Speaker 1: coming in, like, hang on, who is this lady? What's
Speaker 1: going on? Can she really do this? Oh? One percent?
Speaker 2: Because at the time it was at Brisbane Airport, all
Speaker 2: of the station managers were at least fifty plus years
Speaker 2: old old men. I don't think I recall meeting any
Speaker 2: women for quite some time. So the station manager job
Speaker 2: in airports is pretty senior and pretty special, and people
Speaker 2: really aspire to have them because they're great. You get
Speaker 2: to move around the world, you get to experience different countries.
Speaker 2: But that wasn't my background. I had just worked in
Speaker 2: one location my whole kind of career up until that point,
Speaker 2: and I considered myself quite junior. So yeah, lots of
Speaker 2: self doubt and lots of people, particularly you know, no
Speaker 2: offense to Quantus, but particularly Quantus management back then. You know,
Speaker 2: they were all very senior, and so when I was
Speaker 2: kind of coming into a room to negotiate them working
Speaker 2: for me, that was interesting.
Speaker 1: How did you overcome that?
Speaker 2: Well, we were a smaller airline, I mean, we only
Speaker 2: had one daily flight, so we weren't that important to
Speaker 2: Quantus back then. But I always overcome that by just
Speaker 2: being honest and kind and building relationships and connecting with
Speaker 2: people on a human level. I think that's the most
Speaker 2: important thing to do. Like it's not just about the work.
Speaker 2: It's like, who are you and how do I get
Speaker 2: to know you? Let's go for a coffee and you know,
Speaker 2: and these are relationships. I literally have the lovely Henry.
Speaker 2: If he's listening, he was one of the station managers
Speaker 2: back then. He's well retired now, but we still keep
Speaker 2: in touch, Like we actually bump into each other. We
Speaker 2: talk about those days. He was kind of put his
Speaker 2: arms around me to say, hey, guys, you know, let
Speaker 2: her into this club and into this circle. But Emma,
Speaker 2: you will know that that was one of the biggest
Speaker 2: mentors for me at that time. Too, was Brett Godfrey
Speaker 2: because he was launching Virgin and he was also a
Speaker 2: kind of underdog and smaller fish in the pond, you know,
Speaker 2: And he was always really nice and kind to me too,
Speaker 2: so just kept me pushing.
Speaker 1: Brett was one of the first I interviewed on the
Speaker 1: series actually, and I mean, he is an amazing guy
Speaker 1: and it goes to show what he did and the
Speaker 1: opportunity to give people and just how down to earth
Speaker 1: he was about everything. It just allowed us all to
Speaker 1: sort of shine. I guess. So he was one of
Speaker 1: those early mentors for you yeah, one hundred percent.
Speaker 2: And I don't even know if he remembers this, but
Speaker 2: you know, he was the one that said to me,
Speaker 2: you know, any time you want to come across at Virgin,
Speaker 2: there'll be an opportunity. And I sadly, and this has
Speaker 2: been brought up recently seeing what everyone at Bonza and
Speaker 2: going through is. You know, I was sadly one of
Speaker 2: those people that when our airline went into administration, I
Speaker 2: was in Brisbane and that's when I've never felt so alone,
Speaker 2: Like I had the administrators lock up the office, take
Speaker 2: my company car. All of my personal belongings were locked up,
Speaker 2: like accessing getting my own things back and kind of
Speaker 2: being here stranded in Australia. And unfortunately it was at
Speaker 2: the same time as ANSET, so you know, they canceled
Speaker 2: my visa. I didn't know what I was going to do.
Speaker 2: I sat on my friend's couch for three months, kind
Speaker 2: of going what happens now. Unfortunately I couldn't work in
Speaker 2: aviation because you know, there was a lot of people
Speaker 2: out of work, a lot of Australians out of work
Speaker 2: and rightly so the government at the time was prioritizing them.
Speaker 2: But Brett was the one that said, if you ever
Speaker 2: work it out, like, if you work out if you're staying,
Speaker 2: you know, let me know. And I think it was
Speaker 2: like a year and a half it took me to
Speaker 2: get my permanent residency, to go through all of that stuff.
Speaker 2: And I called Virgin once I had permanent residency and said, hey,
Speaker 2: would you still consider me? And then that was the
Speaker 2: next ten years. Yeah, So that was amazing to end
Speaker 2: up there where I did after such kind of hardship
Speaker 2: that was pretty specise.
Speaker 1: And does it help you realize now that that impact
Speaker 1: that someone could happen? You're like, you have that for
Speaker 1: people in Albany, import now when you give them a chance?
Speaker 2: Oh one hundred percent. I mean, the thing I worry
Speaker 2: about all the time is my wake. So what is
Speaker 2: the wake that every single thing that I say leaves
Speaker 2: on somebody? Because there's nothing well, I feel like there's
Speaker 2: nothing worse. There's nothing worse than having an interaction with
Speaker 2: somebody that you think is so profound and then you
Speaker 2: meet them five years later or ten years later and
Speaker 2: you talk about it and they're like what are you
Speaker 2: talking about?
Speaker 1: I have no idea what you're talking about.
Speaker 2: And I find that fascinating that people can have such
Speaker 2: an impact on somebody's life with one conversation, and it
Speaker 2: can kind of guide your career or guide your decisions,
Speaker 2: and then they cannot remember it. So I always think
Speaker 2: about that every single thing that I say as a
Speaker 2: CEO is it's important to leave people intact, and I
Speaker 2: just think about the wake of the ripple of what
Speaker 2: I say and the impact that that might have on
Speaker 2: somebody down the track. I think about that a lot.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that, and I mean there's something to
Speaker 1: be said for having done those roles at a more
Speaker 1: junior level and moved your way up. There seems to
Speaker 1: be a big consistency, right being in a role. You
Speaker 1: get it, You've been there, you've done it, you know
Speaker 1: what it feels.
Speaker 2: Like, correct. I think that's what has been game changing
Speaker 2: for my career. And I had somebody say to me
Speaker 2: recently and I hadn't really thought about it, is I
Speaker 2: will talk to my electricians on the airfield exactly the
Speaker 2: same way that I will talk to my board of
Speaker 2: directors in the boardroom. I just try to look at well,
Speaker 2: what's important to the person I'm talking to, and how
Speaker 2: do I tailor my conversations that it's interesting to them
Speaker 2: and that it means something to them. So I think
Speaker 2: just having those experiences, you know, I still go out
Speaker 2: in the operation. I still go jump in the safety cars,
Speaker 2: drive around the airfield, I still walk through the terminals.
Speaker 2: I still help travelers, like you have to just stay
Speaker 2: connected to your operation most importantly. But I think working
Speaker 2: from the ground up, there's a lot to be said
Speaker 2: for that. I mean, you read a lot of success
Speaker 2: stories of CEOs that started in the mail room or
Speaker 2: you know, worked their way through, and I think that
Speaker 2: means something to people because you just didn't get handed everything.
Speaker 1: Absolutely. I think ego, I mean, you have to have
Speaker 1: some of it right in order to get anywhere, especially
Speaker 1: at your level. But how do you temper that? Sometimes?
Speaker 1: Does it sometimes overwhelm you? Like, whoa, look, how far
Speaker 1: I've gotten, the influence I've got I'm sitting at the
Speaker 1: top of the food chain here in the space. I'm meant,
Speaker 1: do you ever have to kind of bring yourself back
Speaker 1: down and you know or not? Really? Oh?
Speaker 2: Look, so my kids bring me back down every day.
Speaker 2: They don't they don't think I'm special. It was funny. Actually,
Speaker 2: my daughter did an economics test recently and she didn't
Speaker 2: get a very good mark. And I get the automatic
Speaker 2: updates from the school when you get marks, and I
Speaker 2: text her said, hey, that wasn't a great mark. And
Speaker 2: she copied and pasted an article out of the Herald
Speaker 2: Sun that related to the airport and she said, well,
Speaker 2: you're not doing a great job on this side. And
Speaker 2: I was like, oh god, so but now, like I guess,
Speaker 2: you do have to have ego. And I often think
Speaker 2: about for me, it's really important to stay ground. Yeah,
Speaker 2: And I always think about, you know, the two most
Speaker 2: important things to me are humanity and humility and caring
Speaker 2: about the people I interact with, the people that work
Speaker 2: for me. And I just think you need to be
Speaker 2: really careful that ego doesn't run away for you, because
Speaker 2: it's even being an internal promotion. People will hold back
Speaker 2: their true feelings when they're talking to a CEO. So
Speaker 2: you've got to create an environment where people are comfortable
Speaker 2: enough to tell you the truth, where you've got people
Speaker 2: that will tell you you're wrong. I have people tell
Speaker 2: me I'm wrong all the time. But I think you know,
Speaker 2: there's lots of case studies in the world where if
Speaker 2: you have a team that works for you that just
Speaker 2: tells you everything that you want to hear and isn't
Speaker 2: going to tell you when there's bad news, those cases
Speaker 2: can end up pretty dangerous.
Speaker 1: How do you create an environment where people go, you
Speaker 1: know what, it's safe to tell Laurie the truth, even
Speaker 1: though she's not going to like it.
Speaker 2: I realized really early on when I got promoted and
Speaker 2: the kind of walls went up with everyone. I thought
Speaker 2: it was going to be different as an internal promotion
Speaker 2: because I knew everybody. I'd been there for seven years.
Speaker 2: People knew me deeply, I knew them deeply. My first
Speaker 2: kind of one or two interactions with people that I
Speaker 2: knew really well, more junior people in the organization, I
Speaker 2: could see that that nervousness about continuing a conversation with
Speaker 2: me in the new capacity, and that's when I really went, Okay, Wow,
Speaker 2: this is bigger than I thought it was. So I
Speaker 2: just work really hard to make sure people are comfortable,
Speaker 2: to make sure that whoever I'm speaking to, it's not
Speaker 2: about hierarchy, it's not about me having an opinion. I
Speaker 2: read something recently in the boss around. You know, there's
Speaker 2: this CEO that says, it's just an idea. It's like,
Speaker 2: let's workshop an idea, it's not a direction, and I
Speaker 2: kind of take bits and pieces of that too. Example
Speaker 2: I can give is the dirty windows. So I did
Speaker 2: a live. I did one of your lives. So I
Speaker 2: put workplace into the company. I do a workplace live
Speaker 2: every second Friday. I talk to all the team. They
Speaker 2: can ask questions, and you know, I get feedback that
Speaker 2: people love that. I just tell them what's been happening
Speaker 2: for the last couple of weeks. But I did one
Speaker 2: in the boardroom one day. Somebody said, oh, the windows
Speaker 2: are really dirty behind you, and I looked and I
Speaker 2: was like, oh, yeah, they are really dirty. And I
Speaker 2: came in the next day and the windows were spotless.
Speaker 2: And that's when I remembered thinking, I can't even say
Speaker 2: the windows are dirty because somebody's gone out of their
Speaker 2: way and probably out of their maintenance schedule to clean
Speaker 2: those windows because I said they were dirty. So every
Speaker 2: time I kind of think about what I'm saying, I
Speaker 2: think dirty windows don't say something that somebody's going to
Speaker 2: run off because I think CEOs can really create a
Speaker 2: lot of work too for people by just launching bright
Speaker 2: ideas and or saying they want something done and really
Speaker 2: not understanding the impact of what it takes on individuals
Speaker 2: to get that.
Speaker 1: Suff I hear that all the time from companies I
Speaker 1: work with, is just the fact that yeah, they're really vibrant,
Speaker 1: you know, chatty ceo, but they're just they're often just
Speaker 1: throwing at ideas and then they walk at that meeting
Speaker 1: and we're all left to go reschedule our plans and
Speaker 1: work out suits. I think that's a great insight. I
Speaker 1: haven't heard another CEO say of the fourign here, so
Speaker 1: thank you for that, Laurie. I remember when you fell
Speaker 1: pregnant with your signup virgin okay, And I bring this
Speaker 1: up because I remember thinking at the time because, as
Speaker 1: you said, you were one of the few gms who
Speaker 1: were a female actually, and in all honesty, I can't
Speaker 1: actually remember another female GM taking Matt leaf, right, And
Speaker 1: I remember at the time just thinking to theirself, oh, like,
Speaker 1: how do you do that? Like, I mean, now it
Speaker 1: doesn't seem like a big deal at all, right, Like
Speaker 1: you can take Matt leave, you still get a promotion
Speaker 1: when you're a matt leave like you know. But at
Speaker 1: the time, I remember it just being vivid in my head, going, oh, like,
Speaker 1: how's that going to affect your career? What's going to happen?
Speaker 1: What was that process like for you? And did you
Speaker 1: feel pressure to sort of come back early or even
Speaker 1: own the fact that you'd fallen pregnant and this is
Speaker 1: going to happen or.
Speaker 2: This is dangerous territory? Okay, because it didn't work out right,
Speaker 2: if I'm honest, I ended up leaving virgin when my
Speaker 2: son was three weeks old. But I'll tell you about
Speaker 2: pressure because I was a GM and because there was
Speaker 2: no example, and I was surprised to have fallen pregnant
Speaker 2: because I was forty and so you know, of course,
Speaker 2: my husband and I were hopeful, but we were realistic
Speaker 2: that mathematically the likelihood of falling pregnant at that age
Speaker 2: is less likely, not so much anymore, it seems, though.
Speaker 2: So I was terrified when I got pregnant because number one,
Speaker 2: I didn't think i'd actually get pregnant, and then number two,
Speaker 2: there was no example in the organization on how to
Speaker 2: deal with it at all, and the concept of having
Speaker 2: somebody so senior step out for Matt Leeve was just
Speaker 2: foreign to everyone, and so it took me. If my
Speaker 2: old boss ever listens to this, he'll laugh because it
Speaker 2: took me five months to tell my boss I was pregnant.
Speaker 2: That's how scared I was.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: And every day I'd go in and my husband was like, Okay,
Speaker 2: you have to tell him, and I said, yeah, I know.
Speaker 2: And so every day I'd come home and he'd go,
Speaker 2: did you tell him? And I said, no, my chi
Speaker 2: can know. So when I did finally tell him, he
Speaker 2: laughed and said, yeah, no kidding, because you could see
Speaker 2: that I was pregnant by that point, right, I mean,
Speaker 2: Win and Freddie could probably see that I was pregnant
Speaker 2: by at that point. We had a great supportive HR
Speaker 2: person at the time as well. But I think, you know,
Speaker 2: the reality was that it got tricky and it didn't
Speaker 2: really work, and there was a lot of pressure, and
Speaker 2: there was a lot of pressure in the early weeks
Speaker 2: of my son's arrival, and that's ultimately what made my
Speaker 2: decision to leave. The thing I reflected on the most, really,
Speaker 2: if I'm honest, is when I had that first few
Speaker 2: weeks with him. I also had the luxury of seeing
Speaker 2: my daughter at school, like there was quite a gap
Speaker 2: between them, so she was in prep or grade one maybe,
Speaker 2: you know, I realized that I never got to go
Speaker 2: to her school. I didn't know her teachers, I missed
Speaker 2: her start completely. So when that happened, I just thought,
Speaker 2: you know what, I'm not going to miss his start
Speaker 2: and I quit. And he was three weeks old when
Speaker 2: I quit. And that was my eleven year work anniversary
Speaker 2: as well, So that was intense. And yeah, I had
Speaker 2: a bit of a mid well, it can't be a
Speaker 2: midlife crisis at forty but forty one, but it was
Speaker 2: a bit of a mid career crisis for sure because
Speaker 2: it was a long time. It was a long period
Speaker 2: of time there. And that is something that I worked
Speaker 2: quite hard on at APAC, is policy around flexible parenting.
Speaker 2: Like I meet so many dads that would love to
Speaker 2: stay home, but the reality is people take the highest
Speaker 2: paid person to stay at work and the lowest paid
Speaker 2: person stays at home. So for me, pay equity for
Speaker 2: women is number one. Fix that, and then the female
Speaker 2: might stay at work and the man can stay home.
Speaker 2: And then I mean go more broadly, it doesn't have
Speaker 2: to be a female and a man. It could be
Speaker 2: a single person. It could be IVF, it could be adoption,
Speaker 2: it could be grandparents, it could be fluid parenting. It
Speaker 2: doesn't really matter to me. It's how do we make
Speaker 2: sure that the person that wants to stay home gets
Speaker 2: to stay home.
Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you for showing that it was a defining
Speaker 1: moment in your life. I'm sure in terms of even
Speaker 1: the balance of being a parent and working and having
Speaker 1: a successful career. But it was defining for a lot
Speaker 1: of us to work there because we all even though
Speaker 1: we didn't know that and the details of it, it
Speaker 1: was really something I always remember and it made me
Speaker 1: when I bentually got pregnant, going, how does this work?
Speaker 1: Because we knew that you left, and no one kind
Speaker 1: of necessarily knew what the ins and outs were, but
Speaker 1: it seemed, you know, the timing wise was she had
Speaker 1: a baby and then she's not here anymore.
Speaker 2: So it did.
Speaker 1: It made a lot of us sit up and go
Speaker 1: whereas I think today there's a across the board, a
Speaker 1: bit of a better approach towards these things. But yeah,
Speaker 1: it goes to show.
Speaker 2: And that's a really good point to you, Emma, because
Speaker 2: why don't we communicate things. Why don't we explain when
Speaker 2: people leave businesses, Like, of course there's going to be
Speaker 2: reasons why you can't explain, for their sake or for ours,
Speaker 2: why somebody is departing the business. But I think there's
Speaker 2: a way to let people know that somebody has departed
Speaker 2: the business. I mean when I started at Melbourne Airport,
Speaker 2: I started around the airport and there were checking agents
Speaker 2: that were coming up and hugging me and welcoming me
Speaker 2: back from Matt leave. And I'm like, no, why don't
Speaker 2: work for the company.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I remember sitting with you in Melbourne, probably at
Speaker 1: the beginning of twenty twenty two, I think is the
Speaker 1: craziness of COVID was lifting, and I distinctly remember you
Speaker 1: cruising up on this e scooda super confident and this
Speaker 1: like highlighter tracksuit or something, and we're meeting to have
Speaker 1: a cocktail because like no one had like socialized in
Speaker 1: a while, and I had only just started my business.
Speaker 1: And you told me at this point that you were
Speaker 1: actually putting your hat in the ring for the role
Speaker 1: of CEO, a role which I then found out was
Speaker 1: traditionally only held by men. But you know, your accolades,
Speaker 1: your experience, your strengths speak for themselves. But did you
Speaker 1: ever feel like that opportunity you might not get it
Speaker 1: because one you're FEMA, two you're a young C suite
Speaker 1: as well in the scheme of things. Did that sort
Speaker 1: of ever cross your mind or not? Really?
Speaker 2: Oh no, of course. I mean when I put my
Speaker 2: hand up, it was a big process, and so it
Speaker 2: should be. It's a big company, and we were all
Speaker 2: kind of treated equally and there was a pretty robust,
Speaker 2: lengthy process. But the person that believed in me the
Speaker 2: most in that process was my daughter, because she was like,
Speaker 2: of course you can do this. You've been running the
Speaker 2: airport for years already, like in my operational roles. But
Speaker 2: it was fascinating how many people, including myself. I mean,
Speaker 2: of course I'm going to have self doubt, but everyone
Speaker 2: around me had it too. I had a really fascinating experience,
Speaker 2: whether it was old peers or friends even go oh look,
Speaker 2: you know, put your hand up and give it a go,
Speaker 2: but don't be too disappointed. And these were some of
Speaker 2: my biggest supporters, So I was like, oh, wow, this
Speaker 2: is really we just kind of made me think about, well,
Speaker 2: this is a really big deal, and I have to
Speaker 2: try really hard and work really hard. But I did
Speaker 2: some deep soul searching through that process. So I got
Speaker 2: to a really great place at the end of it,
Speaker 2: where you know, I presented everything I stood for, everything
Speaker 2: I wanted to do with the organization, and at the
Speaker 2: end of the day, if our board didn't want that,
Speaker 2: I was completely at peace with that because it was
Speaker 2: aligned to what was important to me and my values,
Speaker 2: my belief So yeah, I mean, good god.
Speaker 1: It was hard, but rewarding the right woman for the job.
Speaker 1: What sort of surprised you the most in terms of
Speaker 1: things you are like, what did you thinking in your
Speaker 1: head that's where it's going to be like and it's not.
Speaker 1: And what's made you go, Wow, that's so much better
Speaker 1: than I ever thought it could be.
Speaker 2: I mean so many things, Like in one respect, you
Speaker 2: get to the top and you think, oh my gosh,
Speaker 2: I can actually override you know, if we agree to
Speaker 2: disagree as an executive team, or if there's a problem,
Speaker 2: I could actually just say no, we're doing this. If
Speaker 2: I really want to. Now I don't. My style is
Speaker 2: I never want to do that. But realizing that you
Speaker 2: kind of have the ability to make any decision is
Speaker 2: pretty empowering and overwhelming, but equally back to your question
Speaker 2: on ego earlier, I think that is where some missteps
Speaker 2: can happen, because if you start just making all the
Speaker 2: tea when you're disempowering your team. So really, I just
Speaker 2: spent the first year navigating You're in this kind of
Speaker 2: aura honeymoon period, I feel like, where you're just so
Speaker 2: excited or I was so excited to have gotten the opportunity,
Speaker 2: the guns blazing for everything that I wanted to and
Speaker 2: then kind of year two sets in where you go, gosh,
Speaker 2: this is complex, this is hard, this is constant, this
Speaker 2: is twenty four to seven, seven days a week. I've
Speaker 2: spent my career as junior in a lot of junior roles,
Speaker 2: looking up to people and thinking, well, gee, they get
Speaker 2: paid a lot, but what do they really Until you
Speaker 2: get to the point where you are solely responsible for
Speaker 2: everyone's psychological safety, physical safety, operational safety, the burden that
Speaker 2: CEO is carrying I think around their obligations, it's a
Speaker 2: pretty big deal, and you have to have some really
Speaker 2: good support people around you to navigate that. I think
Speaker 2: I maybe underestimated my responsibilities of what I carried once
Speaker 2: I got here, and then, like I said before, around
Speaker 2: people that knew me, I genuinely underestimated that. I thought
Speaker 2: people would just trust that I was still the same person.
Speaker 2: But that friction of getting treated differently kind of instantly
Speaker 2: was overwhelming. And I think we've navigated through it pretty well.
Speaker 2: And I would hope that any of my team listening
Speaker 2: to this would one feel that they know they could
Speaker 2: walk through my office door any day of the week,
Speaker 2: they could come up and have a conversation about anything.
Speaker 2: I'm pretty candid about my home life and my work
Speaker 2: life and things we all navigate, but don't ever underestimate
Speaker 2: the title of the role. I think that's what Brett
Speaker 2: taught me in the early days, is that yes, you
Speaker 2: can lead a company and be a CEO, but you're
Speaker 2: not the most important person in their room, and you
Speaker 2: should be the person that speaks last, which is hard
Speaker 2: for me.
Speaker 1: You know, you touched on a really couple of minutes
Speaker 1: in points there, but one was around this immense responsibility, right.
Speaker 1: And the truth is, for a lot of people in
Speaker 1: more junior ors, they look at where you're at and
Speaker 1: they do put you in this superhuman category, right because
Speaker 1: it's every day. It's relentless, like you can't be like
Speaker 1: I can't be bothered today. Quite frankly, you can do
Speaker 1: that depending on where you're at in the company. Right,
Speaker 1: you might go to Tom having a two day break
Speaker 1: from it, not going to deal with this anymore, and
Speaker 1: it doesn't really happen in your space.
Speaker 2: And it was interesting.
Speaker 1: I was talking to Paul Scara and he said to
Speaker 1: me that one of the hardest things about being THEO
Speaker 1: is you are so available now, right, Like people's access
Speaker 1: points to you are constant, Like it's you know, you
Speaker 1: were kind of ring fenced in the older days where
Speaker 1: you had to go through this. I mean, you have
Speaker 1: an amazing EA, but you know sometimes you have his
Speaker 1: eas It just won't let anyone touch you, right, That's
Speaker 1: how it used to be, And these days it's like
Speaker 1: you're trying to be You're on workplace, right, which makes
Speaker 1: you highly accessible via social media. You know, you've got
Speaker 1: an open door policy. Like this kind of accessibility can
Speaker 1: be exhausting mentally.
Speaker 2: It is exhausting, and I laugh. I mean, my EA
Speaker 2: is amazing, but she's like my camp counselor too. She's
Speaker 2: the only person or my kids or my husband that
Speaker 2: I can say I've had a bad day, like really genuine,
Speaker 2: you know, I always talk about that I love Mondays,
Speaker 2: I just love my job, I love the airport. I
Speaker 2: never have an issue getting in a bed and getting
Speaker 2: straight out.
Speaker 1: That amazing.
Speaker 2: But that's not the same for everyone. Problems don't get
Speaker 2: to my desk until they're really home, because if they
Speaker 2: weren't really hard, then they would have been solved by
Speaker 2: the four hundred and fifty talented people working for me.
Speaker 2: It's those multifaceted, really complex situations that by the time
Speaker 2: they get to my desk you kind of sit back
Speaker 2: with a handful of people and go, wow, like this
Speaker 2: is hard, Like how are we going to solve this?
Speaker 2: And so I think you just spend all of this
Speaker 2: time in this process where your top priorities are all
Speaker 2: pretty complicated, yeah, and long lasting. And I think that
Speaker 2: that's the double edged sword is when you are approachable,
Speaker 2: people approach to and I can understand why people get
Speaker 2: to where they are around kind of closing that office
Speaker 2: door sometimes because you need some headspace, you need some
Speaker 2: space to think things through. So it's hard to manage.
Speaker 2: But I also would never want to turn down a
Speaker 2: conversation with somebody either. So you just got to be
Speaker 2: disciplined where you can be.
Speaker 1: How do you manage that constant So, yeah, there's a
Speaker 1: constant strains. I mean, you're passionate about aviation and I
Speaker 1: know being in aviation too. It's one of those things
Speaker 1: that's in your blood. But you will still get to
Speaker 1: burn out at some point, So what's your strategy managing that? Yeah?
Speaker 2: And I do worry about that too, because when you
Speaker 2: read everything about burnout, people kind of say it just
Speaker 2: creeps out overnight, right, it creeps up. My rituals are
Speaker 2: things like, you know, I don't want airlines to put
Speaker 2: Wi Fi on planes, please, because that's when I do
Speaker 2: my deep work on planes. I don't want to be contactable.
Speaker 2: So every time I get on a plane and see
Speaker 2: a Wi Fi signal, I sigh because I feel this
Speaker 2: obligation to be contactable.
Speaker 1: Doesn't Literally I can't remember the last time.
Speaker 2: I have some kind of sacred rituals around my travel.
Speaker 2: I do a lot of deep work during my travels.
Speaker 2: I have a sacred ritual around well, Saturdays, I mean
Speaker 2: Saturdays are for kids sport, but and I do lots
Speaker 2: of driving around. But I really use my time effectively.
Speaker 2: So if I'm sitting at diving with my son, or
Speaker 2: if I'm sitting at volleyball with my daughter, that's when
Speaker 2: I'm doing my kind of deep work and deep thinking.
Speaker 2: Of course, I'm looking at them and smiling and taking
Speaker 2: photos of them.
Speaker 1: Too, But I do love the honesty because we're all
Speaker 1: the same. Mom. Did you see that? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Did I see that dive? Yes?
Speaker 1: Yes?
Speaker 2: And then you're thinking, oh god, I missed it. All
Speaker 2: the time, I call myself a bit of a hibernation
Speaker 2: bear because I don't get a lot of sleep through
Speaker 2: the week. But then I have this kind of ritual
Speaker 2: and my whole family knows about it, which is like
Speaker 2: early to bed on a Friday night and I'll sleep
Speaker 2: in on a Saturday. I have this ability to do
Speaker 2: one big sleep in a week, which I love and
Speaker 2: look forward to, and it's really sweet. My son won't
Speaker 2: play the drums during that time, and you know, like
Speaker 2: everyone pitches in sleep in, And then every now and then,
Speaker 2: if it all gets too much, I just go to
Speaker 2: my fabulous EA and say it's time for a spa
Speaker 2: afternoon at Crown or Body Freedom and just you know,
Speaker 2: block out an afternoon and go do something that's just
Speaker 2: for me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, amazing, I love it.
Speaker 2: Do I have the balance? Probably not? I don't know.
Speaker 2: I always say to my team, anyone that's got younger children,
Speaker 2: like you've done a full day before you show up
Speaker 2: to the office, the more like the routines and the
Speaker 2: school and the obligations, and you know, that's a full
Speaker 2: time job in itself.
Speaker 1: So I appreciate that.
Speaker 2: No one gets it right, and I won't get it
Speaker 2: right either.
Speaker 1: I think you can hear still the energy and passion
Speaker 1: in your voice, which always indicates to me that you're
Speaker 1: doing a good job. I think that leads into this
Speaker 1: idea that I know people who work for Apac Whipt,
Speaker 1: you know, know that it's a great place to work
Speaker 1: and they love working there. So how have you cultivated
Speaker 1: that culture? Like, is there things that you'll learned from
Speaker 1: virgin days or do you have a particular thing that
Speaker 1: you're like me? I know, living with purpose and values
Speaker 1: is a big one for you guys, Yeah.
Speaker 2: So really big. So the work we did in my
Speaker 2: early start, which we cultivated with everyone. This wasn't just
Speaker 2: me sitting in a room thinking out values. We did
Speaker 2: it from the bottom up to work out, well, what's
Speaker 2: important to everybody and how can everyone have a connection
Speaker 2: to what we're doing. And I think that that's really
Speaker 2: important because the account's payable team is not going to
Speaker 2: have the same experience that the terminal coordinators out in
Speaker 2: the field have, and so you have to kind of
Speaker 2: just find simple ways to connect people's work to purpose
Speaker 2: so that they know what we stand for. So I
Speaker 2: think the work that we did around our purpose and
Speaker 2: our vision it's more than just a document, and it's
Speaker 2: not something that we're just going to plaster on a
Speaker 2: wall and a lunch round. Like I think we all
Speaker 2: talk about it genuinely are stepping forward program. So the
Speaker 2: program that we've all been through ourselves and all of
Speaker 2: our contractors around what are our golden rules around how
Speaker 2: we support the travelers in our terminal, Like everyone is
Speaker 2: all in on that. And I love it because literally,
Speaker 2: if I can see a plumber in the terminal with
Speaker 2: a lanyard on, he or she has been through our
Speaker 2: program and helping customers. I get letters now all the
Speaker 2: time about somebody that's navigated this incredibly complex environment that
Speaker 2: people have to get through, Like it's not easy to
Speaker 2: get through an airport, So I think, you know, those
Speaker 2: kind of programs. I think deciding what you really stand
Speaker 2: for is important, but I equally recognize that's hard to do.
Speaker 2: So if I think about you know, we've created our
Speaker 2: Women in Apac Advocacy group, We've created our Pride Advocacy Group.
Speaker 2: But that's tricky too, because there's a lot of complex
Speaker 2: issues happening in the world, whether they be religious or political,
Speaker 2: and it's a fine line about when you take a
Speaker 2: stand and when you don't. And we saw that play
Speaker 2: out with the Voice, and it's tricky.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: I have people in my business that are directly affected
Speaker 2: by things that are happening globally in the world and
Speaker 2: in their home countries, and so corporately finding the balance
Speaker 2: of when you should have an opinion and when you
Speaker 2: shouldn't is I think one of the hardest things we
Speaker 2: have to do. But I anchor back to inclusivity. So
Speaker 2: no matter what your origin, sexual orientation, religious beliefs, political beliefs,
Speaker 2: I want you to walk through the threshold of our
Speaker 2: door and know that you belong and that you have
Speaker 2: a voice.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Love that. I also read that I think you
Speaker 1: nominated to do some work at a leadership summit that
Speaker 1: was around giving compassionate feedback. I'm fascinated to know, like
Speaker 1: what your thoughts are and why giving feedback is sort
Speaker 1: of something we still avoid. Is it something that you
Speaker 1: really focus on and who do you ask the feedback from.
Speaker 2: I'm obsessed with this. We don't give difficult feedback because,
Speaker 2: like we're human, we don't want to hurt somebody's feelings.
Speaker 2: And arguably giving difficult feedback when you don't give it,
Speaker 2: it's more about your protecting yourself, not the other undercent
Speaker 2: So put yourself aside, what's in the best interests of
Speaker 2: this other human And I've seen so many people in
Speaker 2: my career that were absolute superstars that have you know,
Speaker 2: had a tumbling exit. And I've seen people that have
Speaker 2: been absolutely pigeonholed as difficult become superstars. And it all
Speaker 2: comes down to feedback from okay, because if somebody doesn't
Speaker 2: have self awareness, you have to help them, like you
Speaker 2: have to make them aware, you have to support them.
Speaker 2: So I really am all about feedback all of the time.
Speaker 2: And it doesn't have to be hard, like it can
Speaker 2: be quick, it can be in the moment, it can't
Speaker 2: be weeks later. It can't be twice a year in
Speaker 2: a performance review. I mean, oh my god, it's a skill.
Speaker 2: We did a session recently with about sixty of our
Speaker 2: leaders with this lady. Oh, she was fantastic, and she
Speaker 2: does this course, which I highly recommend if anyone needs
Speaker 2: guidance around feedback that doesn't suck. If you google that,
Speaker 2: she'll come up. But giving feedback in a way that
Speaker 2: you're keeping somebody intact, you're not stripping them down, you're
Speaker 2: not doing it to hurt them. But that's where I
Speaker 2: come back to Compassionate leadership has to come from. You're
Speaker 2: giving somebody difficult feedback because you want them to be
Speaker 2: better and you want them to do better and to
Speaker 2: be more successful. And I just think still we're all
Speaker 2: just too polite on so many occasions. So my team
Speaker 2: and I work quite hard on that with each other.
Speaker 2: If there's tension in a room on a conversation, we
Speaker 2: won't leave the room until it's aired out. And I
Speaker 2: think that that's healthy. And the more that people see that,
Speaker 2: particularly across the ranks, the more people get confident to
Speaker 2: speak up, and the more somebody takes the feedback not
Speaker 2: as a criticism but as a constructivepportunity to learn the intent.
Speaker 1: But it's important, though, isn't it right? Like you said,
Speaker 1: you have an intent to want them to be better?
Speaker 1: Whereas I don't know if everyone gets into that headspace
Speaker 1: before they deliver feedback, is that really their intention or
Speaker 1: is it to prove a point or is it to
Speaker 1: be right correct?
Speaker 2: This is probably one of the biggest learnings for me
Speaker 2: over my career as well, is people, I mean people
Speaker 2: want to be right. Of course, you want to be right,
Speaker 2: and particularly technical people like knowledge workers or people that
Speaker 2: have a technical skill if that's being kind of disrespected
Speaker 2: or challenged. And again it comes back to creating those environments.
Speaker 2: But you know, it's like slowing down past a car crash, right,
Speaker 2: Are you slowing down because you want to get out
Speaker 2: and help somebody that's just been in a motor vehicle accident?
Speaker 2: Or are you slowing down because you have this seen
Speaker 2: curiosity about wanting to know what happened. If you're giving
Speaker 2: feedback that you think you're giving because you want to
Speaker 2: say I told you so, or you want to say
Speaker 2: you did the wrong thing, then you should just be
Speaker 2: quiet really because and I'm not perfect, I'm laughing now
Speaker 2: because one of my team will be going right. So
Speaker 2: you know, you said I told you so this week,
Speaker 2: and there was something that I went, oh geez. I
Speaker 2: got some really great advice from a great CEO when
Speaker 2: I started, which is my job is to only intervene
Speaker 2: if something's going to go really wrong. Otherwise empower people,
Speaker 2: let them go, let them make mistakes. If it's going
Speaker 2: to be kind of you know, a serious impact to
Speaker 2: the business, then of course you have to intervene and
Speaker 2: share your opinion and maybe give different direction. But if
Speaker 2: you're giving regular feedback all the time, if you're having
Speaker 2: those robust conversations and you're doing it in a way
Speaker 2: that's compassionate and kind, then it becomes the norm. But
Speaker 2: I think that too often feedback is maybe a leader's
Speaker 2: opinion and not a constructive learning, or it's personally driven.
Speaker 2: If what you're about to deliver isn't going to serve
Speaker 2: that person, then I think you need to take that
Speaker 2: moment to pause as a leader and go, how is
Speaker 2: this going to make this person better? And if it's
Speaker 2: really just going to make them go home and feel worse,
Speaker 2: then you haven't done your job.
Speaker 1: Yeah, when you talk about compassion. That for me is
Speaker 1: the ear of brave, which is empathy, right, And you
Speaker 1: know you've got to have that part where you're able
Speaker 1: to hold that space or person for an individual like
Speaker 1: yourself who is just self confess go get her and
Speaker 1: get it done. How hard do you find sitting in
Speaker 1: that space of holding space to something like do you
Speaker 1: want to fix it? Or you fix that? Is that
Speaker 1: something you could say? Of course? Is it a space
Speaker 1: for you that you want to grow in? For you
Speaker 1: to think of which area of leadership for you is like,
Speaker 1: that's the one I struggle the most with. Which one
Speaker 1: would that be? For me?
Speaker 2: For sure? It's self mastery, It's when to stop talking,
Speaker 2: when to leave the problems to my team. I'm just
Speaker 2: by nature a person that wants to help people, and
Speaker 2: I do it at home all the time. And my
Speaker 2: kids tell me that they're like, you can't fix this
Speaker 2: problem for me. I just need you to mand me
Speaker 2: and I'm like, yeah, got it.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Particularly having a background of operational pedigree, like you kind
Speaker 2: of trained to fix the true and so you have
Speaker 2: to untrain yourself to not fix everything for everyone, or
Speaker 2: set an environment up where they come to you because
Speaker 2: they expect you to fix a problem. So the self
Speaker 2: mastery around that, the self mastery around not taking direct
Speaker 2: action is one that I work on every day.
Speaker 1: Not the worst problem to have, now, Laurie, I could
Speaker 1: literally talk to you for another hour and stuff that
Speaker 1: I know I'm not allowed to and we can't, so
Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to. I've hactually look down my list
Speaker 1: and go, what's two questions I can wrap up his?
Speaker 1: So it's just too oftenish on me. One is what sacrifices,
Speaker 1: if any, do you if you've had to make in
Speaker 1: order to have such a successful career.
Speaker 2: I've made so many sacrifices, Like when I think about
Speaker 2: my career, because I was very ambitious quite young, and
Speaker 2: that can be good and that can be bad. You know,
Speaker 2: I was always job first, location second, So you know,
Speaker 2: the sacrifices around living overseas when my dad is still
Speaker 2: in Canada, the sacrifices around I live now in Victoria,
Speaker 2: which is we love this city and I'm passionate about
Speaker 2: the city and the airport that's in it, but we
Speaker 2: have no family network here, like the rest of my
Speaker 2: family is somewhere else. So I've got a husband that's
Speaker 2: moved away from his Like, we've all made deep sacrifices,
Speaker 2: I think. So I think lots of different family sacrifices
Speaker 2: and family sacrifices around recognizing that I can't be at
Speaker 2: everything and I can't be everything i'd want to be
Speaker 2: for my children and getting okay with that very hard
Speaker 2: to do with mother's guilt. But yeah, I would say
Speaker 2: those you know, friends, family, There's been lots of sacrifices
Speaker 2: along the way, I think, and that's just working out
Speaker 2: that trade off. And like I said, that was kind
Speaker 2: of one of the turning points for me with my son,
Speaker 2: is making the call to say, I'm not going to
Speaker 2: sacrifice this time right now, but you'll never get it perfect.
Speaker 1: I think that's why it's so important to make sure
Speaker 1: that you're doing something you're passionate about. You have to
Speaker 1: look at kids in the face and then to see
Speaker 1: that look what mum's been able to do and give,
Speaker 1: and look how happy it makes her.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 1: I think that's a big part of that. So I
Speaker 1: get that, all right. Last question for you, Laurie, I
Speaker 1: guess aviation is off the table. You're not allowed to
Speaker 1: do aviation. You weren't allowed to do it. That's sorry,
Speaker 1: it's gone. What other job then would you be doing
Speaker 1: if you couldn't do that?
Speaker 2: This is going to sound really leg as an answer, Okay,
Speaker 2: but I had somebody tell me once it wouldn't have
Speaker 2: to be aviation. It could be widgets and you could
Speaker 2: get passionate about it. In my mind, I am very
Speaker 2: focused on team culture, developing people, lifting people up, creating
Speaker 2: a legacy that matters, creating something that my kids can go, Wow,
Speaker 2: that's pretty awesome. I'm pretty proud of that. Like it's
Speaker 2: funny as I sit here and talk about family sacrifices.
Speaker 2: The irony is I'm fifty two years old and still
Speaker 2: just want my parents and my kids to be proud
Speaker 2: of me, right Like, at the end of the day,
Speaker 2: that's what we all want. I mean, people may laugh
Speaker 2: when they hear this. I don't think it has to
Speaker 2: be aviation. I think it has to be a company.
Speaker 2: It has to be something that has purpose and meaning,
Speaker 2: and that could be anything connected to customers. But it's
Speaker 2: about the team and the opportunity to deliver. And that
Speaker 2: is why I get so passionate about Melbourne and Lonsstin Airport.
Speaker 2: Also we own and operate. They are both two airports
Speaker 2: that are going through massive transformation, big growth. You know,
Speaker 2: we're delivering the biggest airport to the biggest city by
Speaker 2: twenty three. And if I can leave that legacy job
Speaker 2: done and that I hope is something that everyone at
Speaker 2: the airport and in the city can be proud of.
Speaker 2: I want to walk away knowing that. You know, Victorians
Speaker 2: love this airport. But there's lots of different outsets and
Speaker 2: lots of different companies. I'm sure that could be passionate
Speaker 2: about that as well, But it does come back to me,
Speaker 2: I think to say, what's the opportunity, what do they
Speaker 2: stand for? What do they believe in? Would I want
Speaker 2: to be a part of that?
Speaker 1: That's where I start, you know, even though in my
Speaker 1: head I was thinking, I wonder if she'll say professional
Speaker 1: skateboarder or you know, something out there. I actually loved
Speaker 1: that because it leaks nicely to something I picked up
Speaker 1: when I was looking through your resume. There was one
Speaker 1: time you left and you went and did I think
Speaker 1: you went for urban utilities for two years, right, so
Speaker 1: you got out of aviation to years and I think
Speaker 1: the one thing I read when you were talking about
Speaker 1: that was that what you recognized during that time was
Speaker 1: that what people need is good leadership, right that it
Speaker 1: needs to transcend industry. And I think that's what your
Speaker 1: aunts is beautifully saying, right that, Yeah, I know you
Speaker 1: love aviation, but you just want to be a really
Speaker 1: really good leader and have an impact on no matter
Speaker 1: where that is. I love watching a journey, Laurie, and
Speaker 1: thank you so much for coming on here. It's been
Speaker 1: a pleasure. It's been great to see you again.
Speaker 2: Thank you and about you too.