1 00:00:05,881 --> 00:00:13,561 Speaker 1: Apoche Production. Welcome to another episode of Brave Always the 2 00:00:13,601 --> 00:00:16,961 Speaker 1: CEO series. This series we launched into the new world 3 00:00:17,081 --> 00:00:18,521 Speaker 1: of brave leadership. 4 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 2: Happy people create happy businesses, true. 5 00:00:21,241 --> 00:00:24,401 Speaker 1: Emotionally intelligent leadership. I've picked up Vombit once on our 6 00:00:24,441 --> 00:00:26,841 Speaker 1: about our four flight and everybody thought, well it was 7 00:00:26,881 --> 00:00:28,601 Speaker 1: good enough for him. I can do it now. We 8 00:00:28,641 --> 00:00:31,801 Speaker 1: will be joined by culture and leadership experts and some 9 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:35,881 Speaker 1: superstar CEOs who will courageously tell us the truth behind 10 00:00:35,921 --> 00:00:39,681 Speaker 1: their brave leadership journeys. Today I'm joined by one of 11 00:00:39,721 --> 00:00:43,281 Speaker 1: my absolute saves, Laurie Argus. Laurie Agus is the CEO 12 00:00:43,441 --> 00:00:46,041 Speaker 1: of Melbourne Airport and took up this role in twenty 13 00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:49,361 Speaker 1: twenty two after seven years as Chief of Aviation and 14 00:00:49,521 --> 00:00:53,040 Speaker 1: Chief of Ground Transport. Laurie started her career in Canada 15 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:56,441 Speaker 1: before relocating to Australia and joining Virgin Australia. In her 16 00:00:56,521 --> 00:00:58,961 Speaker 1: teen years at the airline, she was appointed Manager of 17 00:00:59,121 --> 00:01:03,401 Speaker 1: International Airport Operations and General Manager of Ground Operations in 18 00:01:03,521 --> 00:01:06,601 Speaker 1: twenty seventeen. Lauri Greg wed with an Executive NBA from 19 00:01:06,641 --> 00:01:10,361 Speaker 1: Bond University. Laurie is an active member of Chief Executive 20 00:01:10,360 --> 00:01:13,401 Speaker 1: Women and of the Australian Institute of Directors and became 21 00:01:13,481 --> 00:01:17,121 Speaker 1: a graduate of AICD in twenty nineteen. Laurie is also 22 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 1: a non executive director of the Australian Airport Association Airport 23 00:01:20,681 --> 00:01:24,201 Speaker 1: Council International World Governing Board. She's also a wife, a 24 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:26,481 Speaker 1: mom to two beautiful kids, and just one of those 25 00:01:26,481 --> 00:01:29,520 Speaker 1: people who lights up the room when you walk in. Welcome, Laurie, 26 00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:30,801 Speaker 1: is so great to have you here today. 27 00:01:31,041 --> 00:01:33,481 Speaker 2: Oh thanks, Emma, thanks for such a nice intro. 28 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:36,761 Speaker 1: Look. I can't start this without noting that Laurie and 29 00:01:36,801 --> 00:01:39,641 Speaker 1: I met back in Virgin Blue days, well over sixteen 30 00:01:39,681 --> 00:01:41,641 Speaker 1: plus years ago, and Laurie, you were one of the 31 00:01:41,761 --> 00:01:45,121 Speaker 1: first female influencers for me in a senior leadership role 32 00:01:45,161 --> 00:01:46,761 Speaker 1: that I looked up to. I'm sure I've told you 33 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:49,241 Speaker 1: that that is the truth. You have me there. It 34 00:01:49,361 --> 00:01:51,161 Speaker 1: was true even back then. I think you had this 35 00:01:51,281 --> 00:01:54,281 Speaker 1: presence about you, like you were championing the flag for 36 00:01:54,401 --> 00:01:57,081 Speaker 1: women in leadership. Was that always like a goal of 37 00:01:57,161 --> 00:01:58,801 Speaker 1: yours or did you not even know you were doing that? 38 00:01:59,121 --> 00:02:01,241 Speaker 2: I one hundred percent didn't know I was doing that. 39 00:02:01,401 --> 00:02:02,721 Speaker 2: And I'll tell you why I know that. 40 00:02:02,961 --> 00:02:03,321 Speaker 3: I mean, I. 41 00:02:03,401 --> 00:02:06,801 Speaker 2: Remember being alone, I remember being the only female in 42 00:02:06,841 --> 00:02:09,881 Speaker 2: the management ranks at Virgin my boss at the time 43 00:02:10,001 --> 00:02:12,321 Speaker 2: when I was a middle manager, there was ten of 44 00:02:12,401 --> 00:02:14,481 Speaker 2: us and I was the only female. And I remember 45 00:02:14,601 --> 00:02:17,961 Speaker 2: going up against all the other men in the GM job, 46 00:02:18,761 --> 00:02:21,641 Speaker 2: and I had a great executive HR at the time 47 00:02:21,721 --> 00:02:24,840 Speaker 2: who was advocating for diversity, and I'm not sure if 48 00:02:24,921 --> 00:02:27,641 Speaker 2: he wasn't around that I would have got that job, 49 00:02:27,761 --> 00:02:29,840 Speaker 2: because he was pretty passionate about it and he really 50 00:02:29,921 --> 00:02:33,961 Speaker 2: supported me through that recruitment process. But talking about women, 51 00:02:34,121 --> 00:02:37,081 Speaker 2: it was years later when I had somebody tell me 52 00:02:37,201 --> 00:02:39,641 Speaker 2: I was a feminist and I said to him, I said, oh, 53 00:02:40,121 --> 00:02:42,201 Speaker 2: I don't know if I'm a feminist, Like genuinely, I 54 00:02:42,281 --> 00:02:44,321 Speaker 2: answered the question honestly. I said, I don't know if 55 00:02:44,361 --> 00:02:47,841 Speaker 2: I do properly advocate for women or if I'm a feminist. 56 00:02:48,481 --> 00:02:50,161 Speaker 2: And she said, well, do you believe in equal pay 57 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:52,761 Speaker 2: for women? And I said, well, yeah, obviously. And she 58 00:02:52,841 --> 00:02:54,960 Speaker 2: said do you believe in equal opportunities for women? And 59 00:02:55,001 --> 00:02:57,641 Speaker 2: I said yes, of course, and then she said, well, congratulations, 60 00:02:57,721 --> 00:03:01,041 Speaker 2: you're a feminist. So it wasn't until I kind of 61 00:03:01,121 --> 00:03:03,561 Speaker 2: had that conversation with her that I really started digging 62 00:03:03,641 --> 00:03:07,120 Speaker 2: into what it meant to really lift women up and 63 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:10,721 Speaker 2: advocate for women, and so I'm far better at it nowadays. 64 00:03:10,921 --> 00:03:12,321 Speaker 2: Maybe it was informal. 65 00:03:12,201 --> 00:03:14,520 Speaker 1: Formal Yeah, okay, So I ask you where about that? 66 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:17,081 Speaker 1: So where your family decided to leave Canada and migrate 67 00:03:17,161 --> 00:03:19,321 Speaker 1: to Australia. There must have been a guess, a huge 68 00:03:19,401 --> 00:03:22,241 Speaker 1: decision for the family and quite a change. How did 69 00:03:22,321 --> 00:03:23,641 Speaker 1: you cope with that? So? How old were you when 70 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:24,840 Speaker 1: you did move here? Well? 71 00:03:24,921 --> 00:03:27,521 Speaker 2: I came by myself, so, which is a funny story 72 00:03:27,561 --> 00:03:30,840 Speaker 2: in itself, because I was sitting in Edmonton, Alberta. I 73 00:03:31,001 --> 00:03:34,481 Speaker 2: was working at night shift in network operations seven pm 74 00:03:34,601 --> 00:03:37,841 Speaker 2: to seven am. It was minus forty nine in the 75 00:03:37,921 --> 00:03:39,801 Speaker 2: middle of winter, and a. 76 00:03:40,121 --> 00:03:45,081 Speaker 3: Job ad for Brisbane, Australia came across the fax machine. 77 00:03:45,121 --> 00:03:49,121 Speaker 3: I'm like, across the fax machine, I just went, I've 78 00:03:49,121 --> 00:03:50,761 Speaker 3: got to get out of here. I can't live in 79 00:03:50,841 --> 00:03:53,641 Speaker 3: this weather anymore. So I just applied and everyone told me. 80 00:03:53,721 --> 00:03:55,441 Speaker 2: You know, I was twenty six, so everyone was like, 81 00:03:55,481 --> 00:03:57,321 Speaker 2: You're never going to get an airport manager job at 82 00:03:57,321 --> 00:04:00,041 Speaker 2: twenty six across the world. It was one of our 83 00:04:00,121 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 2: key stations we were launching Australia, and I'm like, well, 84 00:04:02,921 --> 00:04:06,201 Speaker 2: you know what, I'm just going to try ironically. You know, 85 00:04:06,521 --> 00:04:08,481 Speaker 2: of course women shouldn't always say it was luck that 86 00:04:08,561 --> 00:04:10,281 Speaker 2: they got an opportunity, but I do think in that 87 00:04:10,441 --> 00:04:12,201 Speaker 2: experience it was a little bit of luck and a 88 00:04:12,241 --> 00:04:15,441 Speaker 2: little bit of talent because I was easily movable, and 89 00:04:15,521 --> 00:04:18,041 Speaker 2: I was up against a lot of other really high 90 00:04:18,121 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 2: caliber candidates, but they had families and their kids needed schools, 91 00:04:21,961 --> 00:04:24,321 Speaker 2: and they needed visas, and there was all these complications. 92 00:04:24,401 --> 00:04:26,561 Speaker 2: So I think when I said, hey, I can be 93 00:04:26,641 --> 00:04:28,641 Speaker 2: in Australia in four weeks and just stick me in 94 00:04:28,681 --> 00:04:30,961 Speaker 2: a hotel and let's get started, I think that was 95 00:04:31,041 --> 00:04:34,681 Speaker 2: quite attractive to the management. And so I moved and 96 00:04:34,801 --> 00:04:37,761 Speaker 2: I packed up and left my family in Canada. I 97 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:40,681 Speaker 2: lived at the Seeble in Brisbane for about six months, 98 00:04:40,721 --> 00:04:43,401 Speaker 2: and then I helped start the airline in Australia. So 99 00:04:43,921 --> 00:04:45,721 Speaker 2: one of the scariest times of my life. I never 100 00:04:45,801 --> 00:04:48,561 Speaker 2: went out for months. I didn't have any friends. I 101 00:04:48,681 --> 00:04:51,001 Speaker 2: wasn't brave enough back then to go out to dinner 102 00:04:51,081 --> 00:04:54,761 Speaker 2: by myself or to a movie by myself. I certainly 103 00:04:54,801 --> 00:04:58,721 Speaker 2: do that all the time now, but back then it was, 104 00:04:58,841 --> 00:05:01,080 Speaker 2: you know, I just stayed in my hotel room and worked. 105 00:05:01,481 --> 00:05:03,401 Speaker 1: How did you get through that? Like, I mean, it's 106 00:05:03,401 --> 00:05:04,761 Speaker 1: a big thing to jump at a plan and come 107 00:05:04,801 --> 00:05:06,081 Speaker 1: hit me. You didn't even know what it was like 108 00:05:06,161 --> 00:05:08,241 Speaker 1: working in Australia. Was it was it a different way 109 00:05:08,281 --> 00:05:09,481 Speaker 1: of working? What was it going to be? 110 00:05:09,721 --> 00:05:09,761 Speaker 2: Like? 111 00:05:10,241 --> 00:05:11,761 Speaker 1: Where did you get that confidence from? 112 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:15,001 Speaker 2: I don't know where it comes from deep within me, 113 00:05:15,161 --> 00:05:19,921 Speaker 2: but I just have this drive to just never give up, 114 00:05:20,361 --> 00:05:23,320 Speaker 2: and I have this kind of resilience and or grit. 115 00:05:23,561 --> 00:05:25,401 Speaker 2: I think I've been working through trying to work out 116 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:27,561 Speaker 2: what it is. But I think I had kind of 117 00:05:27,601 --> 00:05:31,681 Speaker 2: a pretty bumpy use and I just think it's taught 118 00:05:31,721 --> 00:05:34,681 Speaker 2: me just to push hard. And of course I was terrified. 119 00:05:34,721 --> 00:05:36,601 Speaker 2: I mean I got on the plane. It was the 120 00:05:36,641 --> 00:05:38,881 Speaker 2: middle of winter there, it was the middle of summer here. 121 00:05:39,201 --> 00:05:41,401 Speaker 2: I remember being so hot, and ironically it was only 122 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:44,201 Speaker 2: April in prison, so it wasn't that bad. And I 123 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:46,001 Speaker 2: had this moment in the hotel where I went you 124 00:05:46,081 --> 00:05:48,161 Speaker 2: know what. Because the airline hadn't set up yet, I 125 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:50,761 Speaker 2: was doing all the work remotely, so I was negotiating 126 00:05:50,801 --> 00:05:53,961 Speaker 2: with quantas to do our ground handling remotely. I wasn't 127 00:05:54,121 --> 00:05:56,681 Speaker 2: yet positioned at the airport because we didn't have aircraft here. 128 00:05:57,481 --> 00:05:58,881 Speaker 2: And it was about one or two weeks in that 129 00:05:58,961 --> 00:06:00,321 Speaker 2: I had this moment where I went, you know what, 130 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:02,961 Speaker 2: I'm completely alone, and even if something happened to me, 131 00:06:03,841 --> 00:06:06,001 Speaker 2: like you know what, my parents probably wouldn't work it 132 00:06:06,001 --> 00:06:07,761 Speaker 2: out until they didn't get an email for me a 133 00:06:07,841 --> 00:06:10,961 Speaker 2: week later. But I must say I had this beautiful 134 00:06:11,041 --> 00:06:13,921 Speaker 2: concierge at the hotel who every day when I'd work, 135 00:06:13,961 --> 00:06:15,281 Speaker 2: he'd come up and he'd be like, what are you 136 00:06:15,281 --> 00:06:17,041 Speaker 2: going to do this weekend, Laurie, And I'm like, well, 137 00:06:17,081 --> 00:06:19,481 Speaker 2: I'm working. And he was the one that pushed me 138 00:06:19,681 --> 00:06:23,681 Speaker 2: literally on my first bus down to the pineapple farm. 139 00:06:24,281 --> 00:06:26,681 Speaker 2: He convinced me to go on some tours. I met 140 00:06:26,721 --> 00:06:30,121 Speaker 2: a few people, like he was quite influential, Like you know, 141 00:06:30,201 --> 00:06:33,081 Speaker 2: there was lots of times of loneliness, but he kind 142 00:06:33,121 --> 00:06:35,961 Speaker 2: of pushed me around. And then you know, six months in, 143 00:06:36,081 --> 00:06:37,841 Speaker 2: once I was starting at the airport, I met lots 144 00:06:37,841 --> 00:06:40,281 Speaker 2: of great people and kind of the rest is history. 145 00:06:40,481 --> 00:06:42,641 Speaker 1: Twenty six is pretty young right to go into a 146 00:06:42,721 --> 00:06:44,601 Speaker 1: leadership role, and then also added to that, you know, 147 00:06:44,641 --> 00:06:46,681 Speaker 1: you ought to be one of the few female leaders there. 148 00:06:47,081 --> 00:06:50,521 Speaker 1: Did you experience any doubt from other people like you're 149 00:06:50,521 --> 00:06:52,801 Speaker 1: coming in, like, hang on, who is this lady? What's 150 00:06:52,841 --> 00:06:55,481 Speaker 1: going on? Can she really do this? Oh? One percent? 151 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:59,481 Speaker 2: Because at the time it was at Brisbane Airport, all 152 00:06:59,561 --> 00:07:02,361 Speaker 2: of the station managers were at least fifty plus years 153 00:07:02,401 --> 00:07:06,080 Speaker 2: old old men. I don't think I recall meeting any 154 00:07:06,401 --> 00:07:09,881 Speaker 2: women for quite some time. So the station manager job 155 00:07:10,161 --> 00:07:13,041 Speaker 2: in airports is pretty senior and pretty special, and people 156 00:07:13,161 --> 00:07:15,241 Speaker 2: really aspire to have them because they're great. You get 157 00:07:15,281 --> 00:07:18,161 Speaker 2: to move around the world, you get to experience different countries. 158 00:07:18,761 --> 00:07:21,481 Speaker 2: But that wasn't my background. I had just worked in 159 00:07:21,561 --> 00:07:24,361 Speaker 2: one location my whole kind of career up until that point, 160 00:07:24,761 --> 00:07:28,401 Speaker 2: and I considered myself quite junior. So yeah, lots of 161 00:07:28,441 --> 00:07:31,921 Speaker 2: self doubt and lots of people, particularly you know, no 162 00:07:32,001 --> 00:07:35,321 Speaker 2: offense to Quantus, but particularly Quantus management back then. You know, 163 00:07:35,401 --> 00:07:38,041 Speaker 2: they were all very senior, and so when I was 164 00:07:38,121 --> 00:07:41,401 Speaker 2: kind of coming into a room to negotiate them working 165 00:07:41,561 --> 00:07:43,961 Speaker 2: for me, that was interesting. 166 00:07:44,361 --> 00:07:45,361 Speaker 1: How did you overcome that? 167 00:07:45,641 --> 00:07:47,841 Speaker 2: Well, we were a smaller airline, I mean, we only 168 00:07:47,921 --> 00:07:50,521 Speaker 2: had one daily flight, so we weren't that important to 169 00:07:50,601 --> 00:07:55,681 Speaker 2: Quantus back then. But I always overcome that by just 170 00:07:55,961 --> 00:08:00,361 Speaker 2: being honest and kind and building relationships and connecting with 171 00:08:00,441 --> 00:08:02,401 Speaker 2: people on a human level. I think that's the most 172 00:08:02,441 --> 00:08:04,881 Speaker 2: important thing to do. Like it's not just about the work. 173 00:08:05,041 --> 00:08:06,401 Speaker 2: It's like, who are you and how do I get 174 00:08:06,441 --> 00:08:08,641 Speaker 2: to know you? Let's go for a coffee and you know, 175 00:08:08,681 --> 00:08:11,761 Speaker 2: and these are relationships. I literally have the lovely Henry. 176 00:08:12,361 --> 00:08:14,521 Speaker 2: If he's listening, he was one of the station managers 177 00:08:14,561 --> 00:08:17,241 Speaker 2: back then. He's well retired now, but we still keep 178 00:08:17,281 --> 00:08:19,921 Speaker 2: in touch, Like we actually bump into each other. We 179 00:08:20,001 --> 00:08:22,161 Speaker 2: talk about those days. He was kind of put his 180 00:08:22,281 --> 00:08:24,281 Speaker 2: arms around me to say, hey, guys, you know, let 181 00:08:24,361 --> 00:08:27,401 Speaker 2: her into this club and into this circle. But Emma, 182 00:08:27,561 --> 00:08:29,601 Speaker 2: you will know that that was one of the biggest 183 00:08:29,641 --> 00:08:31,881 Speaker 2: mentors for me at that time. Too, was Brett Godfrey 184 00:08:32,041 --> 00:08:35,920 Speaker 2: because he was launching Virgin and he was also a 185 00:08:36,041 --> 00:08:39,481 Speaker 2: kind of underdog and smaller fish in the pond, you know, 186 00:08:39,601 --> 00:08:41,721 Speaker 2: And he was always really nice and kind to me too, 187 00:08:41,841 --> 00:08:42,801 Speaker 2: so just kept me pushing. 188 00:08:43,001 --> 00:08:44,481 Speaker 1: Brett was one of the first I interviewed on the 189 00:08:44,561 --> 00:08:47,321 Speaker 1: series actually, and I mean, he is an amazing guy 190 00:08:47,321 --> 00:08:48,961 Speaker 1: and it goes to show what he did and the 191 00:08:49,001 --> 00:08:51,161 Speaker 1: opportunity to give people and just how down to earth 192 00:08:51,201 --> 00:08:53,161 Speaker 1: he was about everything. It just allowed us all to 193 00:08:53,241 --> 00:08:55,681 Speaker 1: sort of shine. I guess. So he was one of 194 00:08:55,721 --> 00:08:58,561 Speaker 1: those early mentors for you yeah, one hundred percent. 195 00:08:58,681 --> 00:09:00,961 Speaker 2: And I don't even know if he remembers this, but 196 00:09:01,681 --> 00:09:03,521 Speaker 2: you know, he was the one that said to me, 197 00:09:04,561 --> 00:09:06,481 Speaker 2: you know, any time you want to come across at Virgin, 198 00:09:06,521 --> 00:09:09,721 Speaker 2: there'll be an opportunity. And I sadly, and this has 199 00:09:09,761 --> 00:09:12,081 Speaker 2: been brought up recently seeing what everyone at Bonza and 200 00:09:12,641 --> 00:09:15,321 Speaker 2: going through is. You know, I was sadly one of 201 00:09:15,361 --> 00:09:18,641 Speaker 2: those people that when our airline went into administration, I 202 00:09:18,801 --> 00:09:21,761 Speaker 2: was in Brisbane and that's when I've never felt so alone, 203 00:09:22,281 --> 00:09:24,841 Speaker 2: Like I had the administrators lock up the office, take 204 00:09:24,961 --> 00:09:29,081 Speaker 2: my company car. All of my personal belongings were locked up, 205 00:09:29,201 --> 00:09:32,441 Speaker 2: like accessing getting my own things back and kind of 206 00:09:32,481 --> 00:09:35,281 Speaker 2: being here stranded in Australia. And unfortunately it was at 207 00:09:35,281 --> 00:09:38,001 Speaker 2: the same time as ANSET, so you know, they canceled 208 00:09:38,041 --> 00:09:40,121 Speaker 2: my visa. I didn't know what I was going to do. 209 00:09:40,481 --> 00:09:44,001 Speaker 2: I sat on my friend's couch for three months, kind 210 00:09:44,041 --> 00:09:47,641 Speaker 2: of going what happens now. Unfortunately I couldn't work in 211 00:09:47,761 --> 00:09:50,481 Speaker 2: aviation because you know, there was a lot of people 212 00:09:50,521 --> 00:09:52,361 Speaker 2: out of work, a lot of Australians out of work 213 00:09:52,401 --> 00:09:55,521 Speaker 2: and rightly so the government at the time was prioritizing them. 214 00:09:56,641 --> 00:09:58,561 Speaker 2: But Brett was the one that said, if you ever 215 00:09:58,641 --> 00:10:00,801 Speaker 2: work it out, like, if you work out if you're staying, 216 00:10:01,401 --> 00:10:03,201 Speaker 2: you know, let me know. And I think it was 217 00:10:03,281 --> 00:10:04,601 Speaker 2: like a year and a half it took me to 218 00:10:04,641 --> 00:10:07,401 Speaker 2: get my permanent residency, to go through all of that stuff. 219 00:10:08,201 --> 00:10:11,241 Speaker 2: And I called Virgin once I had permanent residency and said, hey, 220 00:10:11,361 --> 00:10:14,001 Speaker 2: would you still consider me? And then that was the 221 00:10:14,081 --> 00:10:17,881 Speaker 2: next ten years. Yeah, So that was amazing to end 222 00:10:17,961 --> 00:10:20,361 Speaker 2: up there where I did after such kind of hardship 223 00:10:20,441 --> 00:10:21,161 Speaker 2: that was pretty specise. 224 00:10:21,201 --> 00:10:23,641 Speaker 1: And does it help you realize now that that impact 225 00:10:23,681 --> 00:10:25,201 Speaker 1: that someone could happen? You're like, you have that for 226 00:10:25,281 --> 00:10:27,921 Speaker 1: people in Albany, import now when you give them a chance? 227 00:10:28,241 --> 00:10:30,881 Speaker 2: Oh one hundred percent. I mean, the thing I worry 228 00:10:30,881 --> 00:10:33,161 Speaker 2: about all the time is my wake. So what is 229 00:10:33,241 --> 00:10:36,441 Speaker 2: the wake that every single thing that I say leaves 230 00:10:36,681 --> 00:10:40,641 Speaker 2: on somebody? Because there's nothing well, I feel like there's 231 00:10:40,681 --> 00:10:43,521 Speaker 2: nothing worse. There's nothing worse than having an interaction with 232 00:10:43,601 --> 00:10:46,721 Speaker 2: somebody that you think is so profound and then you 233 00:10:46,881 --> 00:10:49,641 Speaker 2: meet them five years later or ten years later and 234 00:10:49,681 --> 00:10:51,001 Speaker 2: you talk about it and they're like what are you 235 00:10:51,081 --> 00:10:51,561 Speaker 2: talking about? 236 00:10:51,601 --> 00:10:53,041 Speaker 1: I have no idea what you're talking about. 237 00:10:53,481 --> 00:10:56,321 Speaker 2: And I find that fascinating that people can have such 238 00:10:56,321 --> 00:11:00,801 Speaker 2: an impact on somebody's life with one conversation, and it 239 00:11:00,921 --> 00:11:03,761 Speaker 2: can kind of guide your career or guide your decisions, 240 00:11:03,881 --> 00:11:06,761 Speaker 2: and then they cannot remember it. So I always think 241 00:11:06,801 --> 00:11:09,401 Speaker 2: about that every single thing that I say as a 242 00:11:09,481 --> 00:11:14,201 Speaker 2: CEO is it's important to leave people intact, and I 243 00:11:14,321 --> 00:11:16,401 Speaker 2: just think about the wake of the ripple of what 244 00:11:16,561 --> 00:11:18,801 Speaker 2: I say and the impact that that might have on 245 00:11:18,961 --> 00:11:21,801 Speaker 2: somebody down the track. I think about that a lot. 246 00:11:21,961 --> 00:11:23,321 Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that, and I mean there's something to 247 00:11:23,401 --> 00:11:25,761 Speaker 1: be said for having done those roles at a more 248 00:11:25,801 --> 00:11:27,921 Speaker 1: junior level and moved your way up. There seems to 249 00:11:27,961 --> 00:11:30,401 Speaker 1: be a big consistency, right being in a role. You 250 00:11:30,481 --> 00:11:31,841 Speaker 1: get it, You've been there, you've done it, you know 251 00:11:31,921 --> 00:11:32,601 Speaker 1: what it feels. 252 00:11:32,441 --> 00:11:35,961 Speaker 2: Like, correct. I think that's what has been game changing 253 00:11:36,041 --> 00:11:38,201 Speaker 2: for my career. And I had somebody say to me 254 00:11:38,481 --> 00:11:42,201 Speaker 2: recently and I hadn't really thought about it, is I 255 00:11:42,321 --> 00:11:45,921 Speaker 2: will talk to my electricians on the airfield exactly the 256 00:11:46,001 --> 00:11:48,161 Speaker 2: same way that I will talk to my board of 257 00:11:48,241 --> 00:11:51,601 Speaker 2: directors in the boardroom. I just try to look at well, 258 00:11:51,681 --> 00:11:53,921 Speaker 2: what's important to the person I'm talking to, and how 259 00:11:54,001 --> 00:11:56,841 Speaker 2: do I tailor my conversations that it's interesting to them 260 00:11:56,881 --> 00:11:59,081 Speaker 2: and that it means something to them. So I think 261 00:11:59,201 --> 00:12:02,521 Speaker 2: just having those experiences, you know, I still go out 262 00:12:02,521 --> 00:12:04,881 Speaker 2: in the operation. I still go jump in the safety cars, 263 00:12:05,121 --> 00:12:08,001 Speaker 2: drive around the airfield, I still walk through the terminals. 264 00:12:08,121 --> 00:12:10,721 Speaker 2: I still help travelers, like you have to just stay 265 00:12:10,841 --> 00:12:15,161 Speaker 2: connected to your operation most importantly. But I think working 266 00:12:15,241 --> 00:12:16,961 Speaker 2: from the ground up, there's a lot to be said 267 00:12:17,121 --> 00:12:18,881 Speaker 2: for that. I mean, you read a lot of success 268 00:12:18,961 --> 00:12:22,241 Speaker 2: stories of CEOs that started in the mail room or 269 00:12:22,681 --> 00:12:25,321 Speaker 2: you know, worked their way through, and I think that 270 00:12:25,521 --> 00:12:28,761 Speaker 2: means something to people because you just didn't get handed everything. 271 00:12:28,841 --> 00:12:31,921 Speaker 1: Absolutely. I think ego, I mean, you have to have 272 00:12:32,041 --> 00:12:34,001 Speaker 1: some of it right in order to get anywhere, especially 273 00:12:34,081 --> 00:12:36,561 Speaker 1: at your level. But how do you temper that? Sometimes? 274 00:12:36,761 --> 00:12:39,361 Speaker 1: Does it sometimes overwhelm you? Like, whoa, look, how far 275 00:12:39,441 --> 00:12:41,361 Speaker 1: I've gotten, the influence I've got I'm sitting at the 276 00:12:41,401 --> 00:12:43,721 Speaker 1: top of the food chain here in the space. I'm meant, 277 00:12:43,801 --> 00:12:45,441 Speaker 1: do you ever have to kind of bring yourself back 278 00:12:45,521 --> 00:12:47,481 Speaker 1: down and you know or not? Really? Oh? 279 00:12:47,601 --> 00:12:50,321 Speaker 2: Look, so my kids bring me back down every day. 280 00:12:51,521 --> 00:12:55,041 Speaker 2: They don't they don't think I'm special. It was funny. Actually, 281 00:12:55,321 --> 00:12:59,281 Speaker 2: my daughter did an economics test recently and she didn't 282 00:12:59,321 --> 00:13:01,801 Speaker 2: get a very good mark. And I get the automatic 283 00:13:01,881 --> 00:13:04,441 Speaker 2: updates from the school when you get marks, and I 284 00:13:04,561 --> 00:13:06,761 Speaker 2: text her said, hey, that wasn't a great mark. And 285 00:13:06,921 --> 00:13:09,361 Speaker 2: she copied and pasted an article out of the Herald 286 00:13:09,481 --> 00:13:11,721 Speaker 2: Sun that related to the airport and she said, well, 287 00:13:11,761 --> 00:13:14,201 Speaker 2: you're not doing a great job on this side. And 288 00:13:14,281 --> 00:13:20,081 Speaker 2: I was like, oh god, so but now, like I guess, 289 00:13:20,121 --> 00:13:21,961 Speaker 2: you do have to have ego. And I often think 290 00:13:22,001 --> 00:13:24,441 Speaker 2: about for me, it's really important to stay ground. Yeah, 291 00:13:24,761 --> 00:13:26,681 Speaker 2: And I always think about, you know, the two most 292 00:13:26,721 --> 00:13:30,521 Speaker 2: important things to me are humanity and humility and caring 293 00:13:30,641 --> 00:13:33,201 Speaker 2: about the people I interact with, the people that work 294 00:13:33,281 --> 00:13:35,881 Speaker 2: for me. And I just think you need to be 295 00:13:36,041 --> 00:13:39,441 Speaker 2: really careful that ego doesn't run away for you, because 296 00:13:39,481 --> 00:13:43,441 Speaker 2: it's even being an internal promotion. People will hold back 297 00:13:43,521 --> 00:13:45,961 Speaker 2: their true feelings when they're talking to a CEO. So 298 00:13:46,041 --> 00:13:48,481 Speaker 2: you've got to create an environment where people are comfortable 299 00:13:48,561 --> 00:13:50,801 Speaker 2: enough to tell you the truth, where you've got people 300 00:13:50,841 --> 00:13:53,281 Speaker 2: that will tell you you're wrong. I have people tell 301 00:13:53,321 --> 00:13:55,761 Speaker 2: me I'm wrong all the time. But I think you know, 302 00:13:55,841 --> 00:13:58,041 Speaker 2: there's lots of case studies in the world where if 303 00:13:58,121 --> 00:13:59,601 Speaker 2: you have a team that works for you that just 304 00:13:59,641 --> 00:14:01,881 Speaker 2: tells you everything that you want to hear and isn't 305 00:14:01,921 --> 00:14:04,841 Speaker 2: going to tell you when there's bad news, those cases 306 00:14:05,241 --> 00:14:06,361 Speaker 2: can end up pretty dangerous. 307 00:14:06,441 --> 00:14:08,601 Speaker 1: How do you create an environment where people go, you 308 00:14:08,641 --> 00:14:10,601 Speaker 1: know what, it's safe to tell Laurie the truth, even 309 00:14:10,641 --> 00:14:11,681 Speaker 1: though she's not going to like it. 310 00:14:12,201 --> 00:14:15,081 Speaker 2: I realized really early on when I got promoted and 311 00:14:15,161 --> 00:14:18,321 Speaker 2: the kind of walls went up with everyone. I thought 312 00:14:18,361 --> 00:14:21,081 Speaker 2: it was going to be different as an internal promotion 313 00:14:21,241 --> 00:14:23,521 Speaker 2: because I knew everybody. I'd been there for seven years. 314 00:14:23,761 --> 00:14:27,081 Speaker 2: People knew me deeply, I knew them deeply. My first 315 00:14:27,201 --> 00:14:29,041 Speaker 2: kind of one or two interactions with people that I 316 00:14:29,121 --> 00:14:33,041 Speaker 2: knew really well, more junior people in the organization, I 317 00:14:33,121 --> 00:14:37,081 Speaker 2: could see that that nervousness about continuing a conversation with 318 00:14:37,241 --> 00:14:40,561 Speaker 2: me in the new capacity, and that's when I really went, Okay, Wow, 319 00:14:40,721 --> 00:14:43,721 Speaker 2: this is bigger than I thought it was. So I 320 00:14:43,881 --> 00:14:46,401 Speaker 2: just work really hard to make sure people are comfortable, 321 00:14:46,601 --> 00:14:48,761 Speaker 2: to make sure that whoever I'm speaking to, it's not 322 00:14:48,801 --> 00:14:52,241 Speaker 2: about hierarchy, it's not about me having an opinion. I 323 00:14:52,361 --> 00:14:55,481 Speaker 2: read something recently in the boss around. You know, there's 324 00:14:55,561 --> 00:14:59,041 Speaker 2: this CEO that says, it's just an idea. It's like, 325 00:14:59,161 --> 00:15:02,121 Speaker 2: let's workshop an idea, it's not a direction, and I 326 00:15:02,281 --> 00:15:05,361 Speaker 2: kind of take bits and pieces of that too. Example 327 00:15:05,401 --> 00:15:07,001 Speaker 2: I can give is the dirty windows. So I did 328 00:15:07,041 --> 00:15:08,801 Speaker 2: a live. I did one of your lives. So I 329 00:15:09,001 --> 00:15:11,961 Speaker 2: put workplace into the company. I do a workplace live 330 00:15:12,041 --> 00:15:14,241 Speaker 2: every second Friday. I talk to all the team. They 331 00:15:14,281 --> 00:15:16,721 Speaker 2: can ask questions, and you know, I get feedback that 332 00:15:16,801 --> 00:15:18,801 Speaker 2: people love that. I just tell them what's been happening 333 00:15:18,841 --> 00:15:21,001 Speaker 2: for the last couple of weeks. But I did one 334 00:15:21,041 --> 00:15:23,601 Speaker 2: in the boardroom one day. Somebody said, oh, the windows 335 00:15:23,601 --> 00:15:25,681 Speaker 2: are really dirty behind you, and I looked and I 336 00:15:25,761 --> 00:15:28,161 Speaker 2: was like, oh, yeah, they are really dirty. And I 337 00:15:28,281 --> 00:15:30,161 Speaker 2: came in the next day and the windows were spotless. 338 00:15:30,961 --> 00:15:34,121 Speaker 2: And that's when I remembered thinking, I can't even say 339 00:15:34,201 --> 00:15:36,401 Speaker 2: the windows are dirty because somebody's gone out of their 340 00:15:36,441 --> 00:15:39,521 Speaker 2: way and probably out of their maintenance schedule to clean 341 00:15:39,601 --> 00:15:44,161 Speaker 2: those windows because I said they were dirty. So every 342 00:15:44,201 --> 00:15:45,921 Speaker 2: time I kind of think about what I'm saying, I 343 00:15:46,001 --> 00:15:49,121 Speaker 2: think dirty windows don't say something that somebody's going to 344 00:15:49,241 --> 00:15:52,441 Speaker 2: run off because I think CEOs can really create a 345 00:15:52,481 --> 00:15:56,161 Speaker 2: lot of work too for people by just launching bright 346 00:15:56,241 --> 00:16:00,281 Speaker 2: ideas and or saying they want something done and really 347 00:16:00,401 --> 00:16:03,281 Speaker 2: not understanding the impact of what it takes on individuals 348 00:16:03,361 --> 00:16:03,721 Speaker 2: to get that. 349 00:16:03,801 --> 00:16:06,441 Speaker 1: Suff I hear that all the time from companies I 350 00:16:06,521 --> 00:16:09,681 Speaker 1: work with, is just the fact that yeah, they're really vibrant, 351 00:16:09,761 --> 00:16:11,681 Speaker 1: you know, chatty ceo, but they're just they're often just 352 00:16:11,761 --> 00:16:13,721 Speaker 1: throwing at ideas and then they walk at that meeting 353 00:16:13,841 --> 00:16:16,721 Speaker 1: and we're all left to go reschedule our plans and 354 00:16:16,761 --> 00:16:18,921 Speaker 1: work out suits. I think that's a great insight. I 355 00:16:19,001 --> 00:16:21,241 Speaker 1: haven't heard another CEO say of the fourign here, so 356 00:16:21,321 --> 00:16:23,881 Speaker 1: thank you for that, Laurie. I remember when you fell 357 00:16:23,961 --> 00:16:26,361 Speaker 1: pregnant with your signup virgin okay, And I bring this 358 00:16:26,521 --> 00:16:28,721 Speaker 1: up because I remember thinking at the time because, as 359 00:16:28,761 --> 00:16:31,401 Speaker 1: you said, you were one of the few gms who 360 00:16:31,441 --> 00:16:33,881 Speaker 1: were a female actually, and in all honesty, I can't 361 00:16:33,881 --> 00:16:39,361 Speaker 1: actually remember another female GM taking Matt leaf, right, And 362 00:16:39,401 --> 00:16:42,641 Speaker 1: I remember at the time just thinking to theirself, oh, like, 363 00:16:43,561 --> 00:16:45,561 Speaker 1: how do you do that? Like, I mean, now it 364 00:16:45,601 --> 00:16:47,441 Speaker 1: doesn't seem like a big deal at all, right, Like 365 00:16:47,561 --> 00:16:49,601 Speaker 1: you can take Matt leave, you still get a promotion 366 00:16:49,681 --> 00:16:51,361 Speaker 1: when you're a matt leave like you know. But at 367 00:16:51,401 --> 00:16:54,721 Speaker 1: the time, I remember it just being vivid in my head, going, oh, like, 368 00:16:54,801 --> 00:16:56,881 Speaker 1: how's that going to affect your career? What's going to happen? 369 00:16:57,401 --> 00:16:59,201 Speaker 1: What was that process like for you? And did you 370 00:16:59,281 --> 00:17:01,881 Speaker 1: feel pressure to sort of come back early or even 371 00:17:02,481 --> 00:17:04,201 Speaker 1: own the fact that you'd fallen pregnant and this is 372 00:17:04,201 --> 00:17:04,920 Speaker 1: going to happen or. 373 00:17:06,121 --> 00:17:10,360 Speaker 2: This is dangerous territory? Okay, because it didn't work out right, 374 00:17:10,481 --> 00:17:13,521 Speaker 2: if I'm honest, I ended up leaving virgin when my 375 00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:16,721 Speaker 2: son was three weeks old. But I'll tell you about 376 00:17:16,761 --> 00:17:20,080 Speaker 2: pressure because I was a GM and because there was 377 00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:23,960 Speaker 2: no example, and I was surprised to have fallen pregnant 378 00:17:24,001 --> 00:17:26,801 Speaker 2: because I was forty and so you know, of course, 379 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:29,441 Speaker 2: my husband and I were hopeful, but we were realistic 380 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:33,080 Speaker 2: that mathematically the likelihood of falling pregnant at that age 381 00:17:33,201 --> 00:17:36,161 Speaker 2: is less likely, not so much anymore, it seems, though. 382 00:17:36,561 --> 00:17:39,160 Speaker 2: So I was terrified when I got pregnant because number one, 383 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:41,401 Speaker 2: I didn't think i'd actually get pregnant, and then number two, 384 00:17:42,001 --> 00:17:44,561 Speaker 2: there was no example in the organization on how to 385 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:47,961 Speaker 2: deal with it at all, and the concept of having 386 00:17:48,041 --> 00:17:51,680 Speaker 2: somebody so senior step out for Matt Leeve was just 387 00:17:51,921 --> 00:17:56,801 Speaker 2: foreign to everyone, and so it took me. If my 388 00:17:57,160 --> 00:17:59,801 Speaker 2: old boss ever listens to this, he'll laugh because it 389 00:17:59,921 --> 00:18:03,561 Speaker 2: took me five months to tell my boss I was pregnant. 390 00:18:03,961 --> 00:18:04,920 Speaker 2: That's how scared I was. 391 00:18:05,041 --> 00:18:05,241 Speaker 1: Wow. 392 00:18:05,321 --> 00:18:08,360 Speaker 2: And every day I'd go in and my husband was like, Okay, 393 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:10,521 Speaker 2: you have to tell him, and I said, yeah, I know. 394 00:18:10,961 --> 00:18:12,481 Speaker 2: And so every day I'd come home and he'd go, 395 00:18:12,561 --> 00:18:13,880 Speaker 2: did you tell him? And I said, no, my chi 396 00:18:13,921 --> 00:18:17,120 Speaker 2: can know. So when I did finally tell him, he 397 00:18:17,321 --> 00:18:19,481 Speaker 2: laughed and said, yeah, no kidding, because you could see 398 00:18:19,521 --> 00:18:21,360 Speaker 2: that I was pregnant by that point, right, I mean, 399 00:18:21,521 --> 00:18:23,721 Speaker 2: Win and Freddie could probably see that I was pregnant 400 00:18:23,761 --> 00:18:26,801 Speaker 2: by at that point. We had a great supportive HR 401 00:18:27,360 --> 00:18:31,241 Speaker 2: person at the time as well. But I think, you know, 402 00:18:31,360 --> 00:18:34,400 Speaker 2: the reality was that it got tricky and it didn't 403 00:18:34,481 --> 00:18:36,521 Speaker 2: really work, and there was a lot of pressure, and 404 00:18:36,561 --> 00:18:38,440 Speaker 2: there was a lot of pressure in the early weeks 405 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:42,200 Speaker 2: of my son's arrival, and that's ultimately what made my 406 00:18:42,281 --> 00:18:45,680 Speaker 2: decision to leave. The thing I reflected on the most, really, 407 00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:49,281 Speaker 2: if I'm honest, is when I had that first few 408 00:18:49,321 --> 00:18:51,961 Speaker 2: weeks with him. I also had the luxury of seeing 409 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:54,401 Speaker 2: my daughter at school, like there was quite a gap 410 00:18:54,441 --> 00:18:57,481 Speaker 2: between them, so she was in prep or grade one maybe, 411 00:18:57,801 --> 00:18:59,321 Speaker 2: you know, I realized that I never got to go 412 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:01,681 Speaker 2: to her school. I didn't know her teachers, I missed 413 00:19:01,761 --> 00:19:06,041 Speaker 2: her start completely. So when that happened, I just thought, 414 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:08,400 Speaker 2: you know what, I'm not going to miss his start 415 00:19:08,761 --> 00:19:13,200 Speaker 2: and I quit. And he was three weeks old when 416 00:19:13,241 --> 00:19:17,001 Speaker 2: I quit. And that was my eleven year work anniversary 417 00:19:17,041 --> 00:19:19,600 Speaker 2: as well, So that was intense. And yeah, I had 418 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:21,041 Speaker 2: a bit of a mid well, it can't be a 419 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:23,840 Speaker 2: midlife crisis at forty but forty one, but it was 420 00:19:23,921 --> 00:19:26,920 Speaker 2: a bit of a mid career crisis for sure because 421 00:19:26,921 --> 00:19:28,721 Speaker 2: it was a long time. It was a long period 422 00:19:28,761 --> 00:19:31,161 Speaker 2: of time there. And that is something that I worked 423 00:19:31,201 --> 00:19:36,361 Speaker 2: quite hard on at APAC, is policy around flexible parenting. 424 00:19:36,721 --> 00:19:39,080 Speaker 2: Like I meet so many dads that would love to 425 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:41,801 Speaker 2: stay home, but the reality is people take the highest 426 00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:44,600 Speaker 2: paid person to stay at work and the lowest paid 427 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:47,680 Speaker 2: person stays at home. So for me, pay equity for 428 00:19:47,801 --> 00:19:51,041 Speaker 2: women is number one. Fix that, and then the female 429 00:19:51,120 --> 00:19:53,121 Speaker 2: might stay at work and the man can stay home. 430 00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:55,481 Speaker 2: And then I mean go more broadly, it doesn't have 431 00:19:55,561 --> 00:19:57,001 Speaker 2: to be a female and a man. It could be 432 00:19:57,080 --> 00:19:59,360 Speaker 2: a single person. It could be IVF, it could be adoption, 433 00:19:59,481 --> 00:20:02,241 Speaker 2: it could be grandparents, it could be fluid parenting. It 434 00:20:02,321 --> 00:20:05,600 Speaker 2: doesn't really matter to me. It's how do we make 435 00:20:05,681 --> 00:20:07,921 Speaker 2: sure that the person that wants to stay home gets 436 00:20:08,001 --> 00:20:08,481 Speaker 2: to stay home. 437 00:20:08,561 --> 00:20:10,801 Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you for showing that it was a defining 438 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:13,120 Speaker 1: moment in your life. I'm sure in terms of even 439 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:15,441 Speaker 1: the balance of being a parent and working and having 440 00:20:15,481 --> 00:20:17,640 Speaker 1: a successful career. But it was defining for a lot 441 00:20:17,681 --> 00:20:20,201 Speaker 1: of us to work there because we all even though 442 00:20:20,201 --> 00:20:22,880 Speaker 1: we didn't know that and the details of it, it 443 00:20:23,120 --> 00:20:25,360 Speaker 1: was really something I always remember and it made me 444 00:20:25,481 --> 00:20:28,441 Speaker 1: when I bentually got pregnant, going, how does this work? 445 00:20:28,521 --> 00:20:30,561 Speaker 1: Because we knew that you left, and no one kind 446 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:33,321 Speaker 1: of necessarily knew what the ins and outs were, but 447 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:35,440 Speaker 1: it seemed, you know, the timing wise was she had 448 00:20:35,481 --> 00:20:37,600 Speaker 1: a baby and then she's not here anymore. 449 00:20:38,120 --> 00:20:38,840 Speaker 2: So it did. 450 00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:40,160 Speaker 1: It made a lot of us sit up and go 451 00:20:40,321 --> 00:20:42,840 Speaker 1: whereas I think today there's a across the board, a 452 00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:44,801 Speaker 1: bit of a better approach towards these things. But yeah, 453 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:45,721 Speaker 1: it goes to show. 454 00:20:45,761 --> 00:20:47,680 Speaker 2: And that's a really good point to you, Emma, because 455 00:20:47,801 --> 00:20:50,481 Speaker 2: why don't we communicate things. Why don't we explain when 456 00:20:50,521 --> 00:20:52,801 Speaker 2: people leave businesses, Like, of course there's going to be 457 00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:56,160 Speaker 2: reasons why you can't explain, for their sake or for ours, 458 00:20:56,241 --> 00:20:59,080 Speaker 2: why somebody is departing the business. But I think there's 459 00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:01,600 Speaker 2: a way to let people know that somebody has departed 460 00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:04,240 Speaker 2: the business. I mean when I started at Melbourne Airport, 461 00:21:04,441 --> 00:21:07,041 Speaker 2: I started around the airport and there were checking agents 462 00:21:07,120 --> 00:21:08,961 Speaker 2: that were coming up and hugging me and welcoming me 463 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:12,121 Speaker 2: back from Matt leave. And I'm like, no, why don't 464 00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:13,121 Speaker 2: work for the company. 465 00:21:14,441 --> 00:21:18,520 Speaker 1: Yeah. I remember sitting with you in Melbourne, probably at 466 00:21:18,521 --> 00:21:20,281 Speaker 1: the beginning of twenty twenty two, I think is the 467 00:21:20,360 --> 00:21:23,521 Speaker 1: craziness of COVID was lifting, and I distinctly remember you 468 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:27,001 Speaker 1: cruising up on this e scooda super confident and this 469 00:21:27,201 --> 00:21:31,801 Speaker 1: like highlighter tracksuit or something, and we're meeting to have 470 00:21:31,921 --> 00:21:34,281 Speaker 1: a cocktail because like no one had like socialized in 471 00:21:34,321 --> 00:21:36,841 Speaker 1: a while, and I had only just started my business. 472 00:21:36,921 --> 00:21:38,640 Speaker 1: And you told me at this point that you were 473 00:21:38,681 --> 00:21:40,321 Speaker 1: actually putting your hat in the ring for the role 474 00:21:40,360 --> 00:21:42,840 Speaker 1: of CEO, a role which I then found out was 475 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:45,441 Speaker 1: traditionally only held by men. But you know, your accolades, 476 00:21:45,481 --> 00:21:48,360 Speaker 1: your experience, your strengths speak for themselves. But did you 477 00:21:48,521 --> 00:21:51,840 Speaker 1: ever feel like that opportunity you might not get it 478 00:21:51,921 --> 00:21:54,680 Speaker 1: because one you're FEMA, two you're a young C suite 479 00:21:54,721 --> 00:21:56,481 Speaker 1: as well in the scheme of things. Did that sort 480 00:21:56,481 --> 00:21:57,921 Speaker 1: of ever cross your mind or not? Really? 481 00:21:58,521 --> 00:22:00,961 Speaker 2: Oh no, of course. I mean when I put my 482 00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:03,241 Speaker 2: hand up, it was a big process, and so it 483 00:22:03,281 --> 00:22:05,480 Speaker 2: should be. It's a big company, and we were all 484 00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:08,001 Speaker 2: kind of treated equally and there was a pretty robust, 485 00:22:08,201 --> 00:22:11,600 Speaker 2: lengthy process. But the person that believed in me the 486 00:22:11,721 --> 00:22:14,561 Speaker 2: most in that process was my daughter, because she was like, 487 00:22:14,681 --> 00:22:16,360 Speaker 2: of course you can do this. You've been running the 488 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:19,400 Speaker 2: airport for years already, like in my operational roles. But 489 00:22:19,521 --> 00:22:22,360 Speaker 2: it was fascinating how many people, including myself. I mean, 490 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:24,880 Speaker 2: of course I'm going to have self doubt, but everyone 491 00:22:24,921 --> 00:22:28,721 Speaker 2: around me had it too. I had a really fascinating experience, 492 00:22:28,921 --> 00:22:33,321 Speaker 2: whether it was old peers or friends even go oh look, 493 00:22:33,360 --> 00:22:34,801 Speaker 2: you know, put your hand up and give it a go, 494 00:22:35,001 --> 00:22:37,321 Speaker 2: but don't be too disappointed. And these were some of 495 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:39,680 Speaker 2: my biggest supporters, So I was like, oh, wow, this 496 00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:42,240 Speaker 2: is really we just kind of made me think about, well, 497 00:22:42,281 --> 00:22:43,761 Speaker 2: this is a really big deal, and I have to 498 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:46,001 Speaker 2: try really hard and work really hard. But I did 499 00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:48,840 Speaker 2: some deep soul searching through that process. So I got 500 00:22:48,921 --> 00:22:50,761 Speaker 2: to a really great place at the end of it, 501 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:54,600 Speaker 2: where you know, I presented everything I stood for, everything 502 00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:56,521 Speaker 2: I wanted to do with the organization, and at the 503 00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:59,001 Speaker 2: end of the day, if our board didn't want that, 504 00:22:59,241 --> 00:23:01,440 Speaker 2: I was completely at peace with that because it was 505 00:23:01,521 --> 00:23:04,801 Speaker 2: aligned to what was important to me and my values, 506 00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:07,961 Speaker 2: my belief So yeah, I mean, good god. 507 00:23:08,041 --> 00:23:11,281 Speaker 1: It was hard, but rewarding the right woman for the job. 508 00:23:11,561 --> 00:23:13,721 Speaker 1: What sort of surprised you the most in terms of 509 00:23:13,801 --> 00:23:15,640 Speaker 1: things you are like, what did you thinking in your 510 00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:17,041 Speaker 1: head that's where it's going to be like and it's not. 511 00:23:17,441 --> 00:23:19,161 Speaker 1: And what's made you go, Wow, that's so much better 512 00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:20,001 Speaker 1: than I ever thought it could be. 513 00:23:20,681 --> 00:23:22,840 Speaker 2: I mean so many things, Like in one respect, you 514 00:23:22,921 --> 00:23:24,720 Speaker 2: get to the top and you think, oh my gosh, 515 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:27,521 Speaker 2: I can actually override you know, if we agree to 516 00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:31,321 Speaker 2: disagree as an executive team, or if there's a problem, 517 00:23:32,281 --> 00:23:34,600 Speaker 2: I could actually just say no, we're doing this. If 518 00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:37,120 Speaker 2: I really want to. Now I don't. My style is 519 00:23:37,201 --> 00:23:40,400 Speaker 2: I never want to do that. But realizing that you 520 00:23:40,521 --> 00:23:43,801 Speaker 2: kind of have the ability to make any decision is 521 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:47,201 Speaker 2: pretty empowering and overwhelming, but equally back to your question 522 00:23:47,321 --> 00:23:50,600 Speaker 2: on ego earlier, I think that is where some missteps 523 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:52,561 Speaker 2: can happen, because if you start just making all the 524 00:23:52,681 --> 00:23:56,041 Speaker 2: tea when you're disempowering your team. So really, I just 525 00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:58,400 Speaker 2: spent the first year navigating You're in this kind of 526 00:23:58,801 --> 00:24:02,241 Speaker 2: aura honeymoon period, I feel like, where you're just so 527 00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:05,001 Speaker 2: excited or I was so excited to have gotten the opportunity, 528 00:24:05,041 --> 00:24:08,120 Speaker 2: the guns blazing for everything that I wanted to and 529 00:24:08,241 --> 00:24:10,521 Speaker 2: then kind of year two sets in where you go, gosh, 530 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:13,360 Speaker 2: this is complex, this is hard, this is constant, this 531 00:24:13,561 --> 00:24:16,641 Speaker 2: is twenty four to seven, seven days a week. I've 532 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:19,681 Speaker 2: spent my career as junior in a lot of junior roles, 533 00:24:19,721 --> 00:24:21,641 Speaker 2: looking up to people and thinking, well, gee, they get 534 00:24:21,681 --> 00:24:25,200 Speaker 2: paid a lot, but what do they really Until you 535 00:24:25,321 --> 00:24:28,400 Speaker 2: get to the point where you are solely responsible for 536 00:24:28,721 --> 00:24:35,041 Speaker 2: everyone's psychological safety, physical safety, operational safety, the burden that 537 00:24:35,481 --> 00:24:39,961 Speaker 2: CEO is carrying I think around their obligations, it's a 538 00:24:40,001 --> 00:24:42,121 Speaker 2: pretty big deal, and you have to have some really 539 00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:44,801 Speaker 2: good support people around you to navigate that. I think 540 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:50,121 Speaker 2: I maybe underestimated my responsibilities of what I carried once 541 00:24:50,201 --> 00:24:52,921 Speaker 2: I got here, and then, like I said before, around 542 00:24:53,001 --> 00:24:57,241 Speaker 2: people that knew me, I genuinely underestimated that. I thought 543 00:24:57,321 --> 00:25:00,001 Speaker 2: people would just trust that I was still the same person. 544 00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:03,961 Speaker 2: But that friction of getting treated differently kind of instantly 545 00:25:04,761 --> 00:25:07,761 Speaker 2: was overwhelming. And I think we've navigated through it pretty well. 546 00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:10,561 Speaker 2: And I would hope that any of my team listening 547 00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:14,360 Speaker 2: to this would one feel that they know they could 548 00:25:14,481 --> 00:25:16,401 Speaker 2: walk through my office door any day of the week, 549 00:25:16,481 --> 00:25:18,561 Speaker 2: they could come up and have a conversation about anything. 550 00:25:19,001 --> 00:25:21,481 Speaker 2: I'm pretty candid about my home life and my work 551 00:25:21,521 --> 00:25:25,521 Speaker 2: life and things we all navigate, but don't ever underestimate 552 00:25:25,561 --> 00:25:27,561 Speaker 2: the title of the role. I think that's what Brett 553 00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:29,761 Speaker 2: taught me in the early days, is that yes, you 554 00:25:29,801 --> 00:25:31,761 Speaker 2: can lead a company and be a CEO, but you're 555 00:25:31,761 --> 00:25:34,160 Speaker 2: not the most important person in their room, and you 556 00:25:34,241 --> 00:25:36,360 Speaker 2: should be the person that speaks last, which is hard 557 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:36,561 Speaker 2: for me. 558 00:25:40,041 --> 00:25:41,521 Speaker 1: You know, you touched on a really couple of minutes 559 00:25:41,521 --> 00:25:45,001 Speaker 1: in points there, but one was around this immense responsibility, right. 560 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:46,840 Speaker 1: And the truth is, for a lot of people in 561 00:25:46,921 --> 00:25:48,281 Speaker 1: more junior ors, they look at where you're at and 562 00:25:48,281 --> 00:25:50,440 Speaker 1: they do put you in this superhuman category, right because 563 00:25:50,441 --> 00:25:52,521 Speaker 1: it's every day. It's relentless, like you can't be like 564 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:54,920 Speaker 1: I can't be bothered today. Quite frankly, you can do 565 00:25:55,041 --> 00:25:56,801 Speaker 1: that depending on where you're at in the company. Right, 566 00:25:56,961 --> 00:25:59,041 Speaker 1: you might go to Tom having a two day break 567 00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:00,561 Speaker 1: from it, not going to deal with this anymore, and 568 00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:02,161 Speaker 1: it doesn't really happen in your space. 569 00:26:02,241 --> 00:26:03,400 Speaker 2: And it was interesting. 570 00:26:03,721 --> 00:26:05,561 Speaker 1: I was talking to Paul Scara and he said to 571 00:26:05,681 --> 00:26:07,840 Speaker 1: me that one of the hardest things about being THEO 572 00:26:08,120 --> 00:26:12,281 Speaker 1: is you are so available now, right, Like people's access 573 00:26:12,321 --> 00:26:14,961 Speaker 1: points to you are constant, Like it's you know, you 574 00:26:15,041 --> 00:26:16,921 Speaker 1: were kind of ring fenced in the older days where 575 00:26:16,961 --> 00:26:18,481 Speaker 1: you had to go through this. I mean, you have 576 00:26:18,521 --> 00:26:20,801 Speaker 1: an amazing EA, but you know sometimes you have his 577 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:23,481 Speaker 1: eas It just won't let anyone touch you, right, That's 578 00:26:23,521 --> 00:26:25,360 Speaker 1: how it used to be, And these days it's like 579 00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:27,600 Speaker 1: you're trying to be You're on workplace, right, which makes 580 00:26:27,681 --> 00:26:30,561 Speaker 1: you highly accessible via social media. You know, you've got 581 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:33,761 Speaker 1: an open door policy. Like this kind of accessibility can 582 00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:35,640 Speaker 1: be exhausting mentally. 583 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:38,481 Speaker 2: It is exhausting, and I laugh. I mean, my EA 584 00:26:38,681 --> 00:26:41,441 Speaker 2: is amazing, but she's like my camp counselor too. She's 585 00:26:41,521 --> 00:26:44,321 Speaker 2: the only person or my kids or my husband that 586 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:46,961 Speaker 2: I can say I've had a bad day, like really genuine, 587 00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:49,880 Speaker 2: you know, I always talk about that I love Mondays, 588 00:26:50,041 --> 00:26:53,241 Speaker 2: I just love my job, I love the airport. I 589 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:55,321 Speaker 2: never have an issue getting in a bed and getting 590 00:26:55,321 --> 00:26:55,760 Speaker 2: straight out. 591 00:26:55,761 --> 00:26:56,281 Speaker 1: That amazing. 592 00:26:56,600 --> 00:27:00,001 Speaker 2: But that's not the same for everyone. Problems don't get 593 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:04,000 Speaker 2: to my desk until they're really home, because if they 594 00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:07,600 Speaker 2: weren't really hard, then they would have been solved by 595 00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:10,281 Speaker 2: the four hundred and fifty talented people working for me. 596 00:27:10,441 --> 00:27:14,961 Speaker 2: It's those multifaceted, really complex situations that by the time 597 00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:17,681 Speaker 2: they get to my desk you kind of sit back 598 00:27:17,721 --> 00:27:19,600 Speaker 2: with a handful of people and go, wow, like this 599 00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:21,880 Speaker 2: is hard, Like how are we going to solve this? 600 00:27:22,921 --> 00:27:24,961 Speaker 2: And so I think you just spend all of this 601 00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:27,960 Speaker 2: time in this process where your top priorities are all 602 00:27:28,001 --> 00:27:31,241 Speaker 2: pretty complicated, yeah, and long lasting. And I think that 603 00:27:31,360 --> 00:27:33,600 Speaker 2: that's the double edged sword is when you are approachable, 604 00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:37,601 Speaker 2: people approach to and I can understand why people get 605 00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:40,281 Speaker 2: to where they are around kind of closing that office 606 00:27:40,321 --> 00:27:43,481 Speaker 2: door sometimes because you need some headspace, you need some 607 00:27:44,321 --> 00:27:47,041 Speaker 2: space to think things through. So it's hard to manage. 608 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:49,241 Speaker 2: But I also would never want to turn down a 609 00:27:49,321 --> 00:27:51,920 Speaker 2: conversation with somebody either. So you just got to be 610 00:27:51,961 --> 00:27:53,160 Speaker 2: disciplined where you can be. 611 00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:56,321 Speaker 1: How do you manage that constant So, yeah, there's a 612 00:27:56,360 --> 00:27:58,360 Speaker 1: constant strains. I mean, you're passionate about aviation and I 613 00:27:58,481 --> 00:28:00,321 Speaker 1: know being in aviation too. It's one of those things 614 00:28:00,360 --> 00:28:03,120 Speaker 1: that's in your blood. But you will still get to 615 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:06,161 Speaker 1: burn out at some point, So what's your strategy managing that? Yeah? 616 00:28:06,201 --> 00:28:08,120 Speaker 2: And I do worry about that too, because when you 617 00:28:08,201 --> 00:28:10,961 Speaker 2: read everything about burnout, people kind of say it just 618 00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:14,120 Speaker 2: creeps out overnight, right, it creeps up. My rituals are 619 00:28:14,201 --> 00:28:17,241 Speaker 2: things like, you know, I don't want airlines to put 620 00:28:17,321 --> 00:28:20,001 Speaker 2: Wi Fi on planes, please, because that's when I do 621 00:28:20,201 --> 00:28:23,281 Speaker 2: my deep work on planes. I don't want to be contactable. 622 00:28:23,360 --> 00:28:24,761 Speaker 2: So every time I get on a plane and see 623 00:28:24,761 --> 00:28:27,801 Speaker 2: a Wi Fi signal, I sigh because I feel this 624 00:28:27,961 --> 00:28:30,001 Speaker 2: obligation to be contactable. 625 00:28:29,561 --> 00:28:35,241 Speaker 1: Doesn't Literally I can't remember the last time. 626 00:28:36,001 --> 00:28:38,361 Speaker 2: I have some kind of sacred rituals around my travel. 627 00:28:38,881 --> 00:28:40,961 Speaker 2: I do a lot of deep work during my travels. 628 00:28:41,361 --> 00:28:44,601 Speaker 2: I have a sacred ritual around well, Saturdays, I mean 629 00:28:44,641 --> 00:28:47,121 Speaker 2: Saturdays are for kids sport, but and I do lots 630 00:28:47,121 --> 00:28:50,720 Speaker 2: of driving around. But I really use my time effectively. 631 00:28:50,841 --> 00:28:52,481 Speaker 2: So if I'm sitting at diving with my son, or 632 00:28:52,481 --> 00:28:54,641 Speaker 2: if I'm sitting at volleyball with my daughter, that's when 633 00:28:54,681 --> 00:28:56,681 Speaker 2: I'm doing my kind of deep work and deep thinking. 634 00:28:56,761 --> 00:28:58,721 Speaker 2: Of course, I'm looking at them and smiling and taking 635 00:28:58,761 --> 00:28:59,561 Speaker 2: photos of them. 636 00:28:59,481 --> 00:29:02,960 Speaker 1: Too, But I do love the honesty because we're all 637 00:29:03,001 --> 00:29:08,361 Speaker 1: the same. Mom. Did you see that? Yeah? 638 00:29:09,241 --> 00:29:10,601 Speaker 2: Did I see that dive? Yes? 639 00:29:11,201 --> 00:29:11,441 Speaker 1: Yes? 640 00:29:12,041 --> 00:29:14,520 Speaker 2: And then you're thinking, oh god, I missed it. All 641 00:29:14,601 --> 00:29:17,841 Speaker 2: the time, I call myself a bit of a hibernation 642 00:29:18,001 --> 00:29:20,281 Speaker 2: bear because I don't get a lot of sleep through 643 00:29:20,321 --> 00:29:22,161 Speaker 2: the week. But then I have this kind of ritual 644 00:29:22,721 --> 00:29:24,601 Speaker 2: and my whole family knows about it, which is like 645 00:29:24,841 --> 00:29:27,081 Speaker 2: early to bed on a Friday night and I'll sleep 646 00:29:27,121 --> 00:29:29,081 Speaker 2: in on a Saturday. I have this ability to do 647 00:29:29,241 --> 00:29:31,801 Speaker 2: one big sleep in a week, which I love and 648 00:29:31,921 --> 00:29:35,401 Speaker 2: look forward to, and it's really sweet. My son won't 649 00:29:35,441 --> 00:29:37,761 Speaker 2: play the drums during that time, and you know, like 650 00:29:37,881 --> 00:29:41,961 Speaker 2: everyone pitches in sleep in, And then every now and then, 651 00:29:42,001 --> 00:29:43,841 Speaker 2: if it all gets too much, I just go to 652 00:29:43,921 --> 00:29:47,041 Speaker 2: my fabulous EA and say it's time for a spa 653 00:29:47,281 --> 00:29:50,681 Speaker 2: afternoon at Crown or Body Freedom and just you know, 654 00:29:50,841 --> 00:29:52,961 Speaker 2: block out an afternoon and go do something that's just 655 00:29:53,041 --> 00:29:53,241 Speaker 2: for me. 656 00:29:53,401 --> 00:29:55,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, amazing, I love it. 657 00:29:55,681 --> 00:29:58,041 Speaker 2: Do I have the balance? Probably not? I don't know. 658 00:29:58,201 --> 00:30:01,401 Speaker 2: I always say to my team, anyone that's got younger children, 659 00:30:01,601 --> 00:30:03,881 Speaker 2: like you've done a full day before you show up 660 00:30:03,921 --> 00:30:06,561 Speaker 2: to the office, the more like the routines and the 661 00:30:06,641 --> 00:30:09,881 Speaker 2: school and the obligations, and you know, that's a full 662 00:30:09,961 --> 00:30:10,841 Speaker 2: time job in itself. 663 00:30:10,961 --> 00:30:12,321 Speaker 1: So I appreciate that. 664 00:30:12,401 --> 00:30:13,921 Speaker 2: No one gets it right, and I won't get it 665 00:30:14,041 --> 00:30:14,401 Speaker 2: right either. 666 00:30:14,441 --> 00:30:16,321 Speaker 1: I think you can hear still the energy and passion 667 00:30:16,321 --> 00:30:18,401 Speaker 1: in your voice, which always indicates to me that you're 668 00:30:18,401 --> 00:30:20,841 Speaker 1: doing a good job. I think that leads into this 669 00:30:20,961 --> 00:30:23,761 Speaker 1: idea that I know people who work for Apac Whipt, 670 00:30:23,921 --> 00:30:25,401 Speaker 1: you know, know that it's a great place to work 671 00:30:25,401 --> 00:30:28,281 Speaker 1: and they love working there. So how have you cultivated 672 00:30:28,321 --> 00:30:30,681 Speaker 1: that culture? Like, is there things that you'll learned from 673 00:30:30,761 --> 00:30:32,681 Speaker 1: virgin days or do you have a particular thing that 674 00:30:32,721 --> 00:30:35,281 Speaker 1: you're like me? I know, living with purpose and values 675 00:30:35,361 --> 00:30:37,001 Speaker 1: is a big one for you guys, Yeah. 676 00:30:37,041 --> 00:30:40,321 Speaker 2: So really big. So the work we did in my 677 00:30:40,601 --> 00:30:44,121 Speaker 2: early start, which we cultivated with everyone. This wasn't just 678 00:30:44,281 --> 00:30:47,601 Speaker 2: me sitting in a room thinking out values. We did 679 00:30:47,641 --> 00:30:49,561 Speaker 2: it from the bottom up to work out, well, what's 680 00:30:49,601 --> 00:30:52,841 Speaker 2: important to everybody and how can everyone have a connection 681 00:30:53,041 --> 00:30:55,001 Speaker 2: to what we're doing. And I think that that's really 682 00:30:55,041 --> 00:30:58,321 Speaker 2: important because the account's payable team is not going to 683 00:30:58,361 --> 00:31:01,121 Speaker 2: have the same experience that the terminal coordinators out in 684 00:31:01,201 --> 00:31:03,961 Speaker 2: the field have, and so you have to kind of 685 00:31:04,481 --> 00:31:07,921 Speaker 2: just find simple ways to connect people's work to purpose 686 00:31:08,521 --> 00:31:10,961 Speaker 2: so that they know what we stand for. So I 687 00:31:11,041 --> 00:31:13,041 Speaker 2: think the work that we did around our purpose and 688 00:31:13,121 --> 00:31:15,960 Speaker 2: our vision it's more than just a document, and it's 689 00:31:16,041 --> 00:31:17,921 Speaker 2: not something that we're just going to plaster on a 690 00:31:17,961 --> 00:31:19,921 Speaker 2: wall and a lunch round. Like I think we all 691 00:31:20,001 --> 00:31:23,881 Speaker 2: talk about it genuinely are stepping forward program. So the 692 00:31:24,001 --> 00:31:26,721 Speaker 2: program that we've all been through ourselves and all of 693 00:31:26,761 --> 00:31:30,721 Speaker 2: our contractors around what are our golden rules around how 694 00:31:30,761 --> 00:31:33,440 Speaker 2: we support the travelers in our terminal, Like everyone is 695 00:31:33,561 --> 00:31:36,281 Speaker 2: all in on that. And I love it because literally, 696 00:31:36,481 --> 00:31:38,561 Speaker 2: if I can see a plumber in the terminal with 697 00:31:38,641 --> 00:31:40,921 Speaker 2: a lanyard on, he or she has been through our 698 00:31:41,001 --> 00:31:44,881 Speaker 2: program and helping customers. I get letters now all the 699 00:31:45,001 --> 00:31:50,521 Speaker 2: time about somebody that's navigated this incredibly complex environment that 700 00:31:50,721 --> 00:31:52,481 Speaker 2: people have to get through, Like it's not easy to 701 00:31:52,521 --> 00:31:54,801 Speaker 2: get through an airport, So I think, you know, those 702 00:31:54,881 --> 00:31:57,961 Speaker 2: kind of programs. I think deciding what you really stand 703 00:31:58,041 --> 00:32:01,721 Speaker 2: for is important, but I equally recognize that's hard to do. 704 00:32:01,921 --> 00:32:04,280 Speaker 2: So if I think about you know, we've created our 705 00:32:04,361 --> 00:32:08,361 Speaker 2: Women in Apac Advocacy group, We've created our Pride Advocacy Group. 706 00:32:08,961 --> 00:32:11,561 Speaker 2: But that's tricky too, because there's a lot of complex 707 00:32:11,681 --> 00:32:16,001 Speaker 2: issues happening in the world, whether they be religious or political, 708 00:32:16,641 --> 00:32:18,841 Speaker 2: and it's a fine line about when you take a 709 00:32:18,881 --> 00:32:21,921 Speaker 2: stand and when you don't. And we saw that play 710 00:32:21,961 --> 00:32:23,681 Speaker 2: out with the Voice, and it's tricky. 711 00:32:23,841 --> 00:32:24,001 Speaker 1: You know. 712 00:32:24,081 --> 00:32:27,241 Speaker 2: I have people in my business that are directly affected 713 00:32:27,321 --> 00:32:29,961 Speaker 2: by things that are happening globally in the world and 714 00:32:30,081 --> 00:32:34,041 Speaker 2: in their home countries, and so corporately finding the balance 715 00:32:34,081 --> 00:32:35,601 Speaker 2: of when you should have an opinion and when you 716 00:32:35,641 --> 00:32:39,161 Speaker 2: shouldn't is I think one of the hardest things we 717 00:32:39,321 --> 00:32:44,481 Speaker 2: have to do. But I anchor back to inclusivity. So 718 00:32:45,001 --> 00:32:50,841 Speaker 2: no matter what your origin, sexual orientation, religious beliefs, political beliefs, 719 00:32:51,161 --> 00:32:53,161 Speaker 2: I want you to walk through the threshold of our 720 00:32:53,321 --> 00:32:56,721 Speaker 2: door and know that you belong and that you have 721 00:32:56,841 --> 00:32:57,281 Speaker 2: a voice. 722 00:32:57,401 --> 00:33:00,241 Speaker 1: Yeah. Love that. I also read that I think you 723 00:33:00,441 --> 00:33:02,681 Speaker 1: nominated to do some work at a leadership summit that 724 00:33:02,801 --> 00:33:06,321 Speaker 1: was around giving compassionate feedback. I'm fascinated to know, like 725 00:33:06,761 --> 00:33:09,321 Speaker 1: what your thoughts are and why giving feedback is sort 726 00:33:09,321 --> 00:33:12,081 Speaker 1: of something we still avoid. Is it something that you 727 00:33:12,201 --> 00:33:15,121 Speaker 1: really focus on and who do you ask the feedback from. 728 00:33:15,401 --> 00:33:18,440 Speaker 2: I'm obsessed with this. We don't give difficult feedback because, 729 00:33:18,561 --> 00:33:20,681 Speaker 2: like we're human, we don't want to hurt somebody's feelings. 730 00:33:20,841 --> 00:33:24,761 Speaker 2: And arguably giving difficult feedback when you don't give it, 731 00:33:24,881 --> 00:33:28,281 Speaker 2: it's more about your protecting yourself, not the other undercent 732 00:33:28,841 --> 00:33:31,721 Speaker 2: So put yourself aside, what's in the best interests of 733 00:33:31,801 --> 00:33:35,281 Speaker 2: this other human And I've seen so many people in 734 00:33:35,361 --> 00:33:38,881 Speaker 2: my career that were absolute superstars that have you know, 735 00:33:39,081 --> 00:33:42,401 Speaker 2: had a tumbling exit. And I've seen people that have 736 00:33:42,561 --> 00:33:48,881 Speaker 2: been absolutely pigeonholed as difficult become superstars. And it all 737 00:33:49,001 --> 00:33:51,881 Speaker 2: comes down to feedback from okay, because if somebody doesn't 738 00:33:51,921 --> 00:33:54,481 Speaker 2: have self awareness, you have to help them, like you 739 00:33:54,601 --> 00:33:57,121 Speaker 2: have to make them aware, you have to support them. 740 00:33:57,281 --> 00:34:01,001 Speaker 2: So I really am all about feedback all of the time. 741 00:34:01,081 --> 00:34:02,921 Speaker 2: And it doesn't have to be hard, like it can 742 00:34:02,961 --> 00:34:04,921 Speaker 2: be quick, it can be in the moment, it can't 743 00:34:04,921 --> 00:34:07,200 Speaker 2: be weeks later. It can't be twice a year in 744 00:34:07,241 --> 00:34:10,241 Speaker 2: a performance review. I mean, oh my god, it's a skill. 745 00:34:10,441 --> 00:34:12,681 Speaker 2: We did a session recently with about sixty of our 746 00:34:12,921 --> 00:34:15,521 Speaker 2: leaders with this lady. Oh, she was fantastic, and she 747 00:34:15,601 --> 00:34:19,121 Speaker 2: does this course, which I highly recommend if anyone needs 748 00:34:19,201 --> 00:34:23,121 Speaker 2: guidance around feedback that doesn't suck. If you google that, 749 00:34:23,241 --> 00:34:25,401 Speaker 2: she'll come up. But giving feedback in a way that 750 00:34:26,161 --> 00:34:29,281 Speaker 2: you're keeping somebody intact, you're not stripping them down, you're 751 00:34:29,321 --> 00:34:31,281 Speaker 2: not doing it to hurt them. But that's where I 752 00:34:31,361 --> 00:34:34,401 Speaker 2: come back to Compassionate leadership has to come from. You're 753 00:34:34,441 --> 00:34:36,641 Speaker 2: giving somebody difficult feedback because you want them to be 754 00:34:36,761 --> 00:34:39,361 Speaker 2: better and you want them to do better and to 755 00:34:39,441 --> 00:34:43,161 Speaker 2: be more successful. And I just think still we're all 756 00:34:43,481 --> 00:34:47,041 Speaker 2: just too polite on so many occasions. So my team 757 00:34:47,121 --> 00:34:48,761 Speaker 2: and I work quite hard on that with each other. 758 00:34:49,281 --> 00:34:51,401 Speaker 2: If there's tension in a room on a conversation, we 759 00:34:51,481 --> 00:34:54,201 Speaker 2: won't leave the room until it's aired out. And I 760 00:34:54,241 --> 00:34:56,521 Speaker 2: think that that's healthy. And the more that people see that, 761 00:34:56,801 --> 00:35:00,121 Speaker 2: particularly across the ranks, the more people get confident to 762 00:35:00,121 --> 00:35:02,561 Speaker 2: speak up, and the more somebody takes the feedback not 763 00:35:02,721 --> 00:35:06,401 Speaker 2: as a criticism but as a constructivepportunity to learn the intent. 764 00:35:06,521 --> 00:35:08,401 Speaker 1: But it's important, though, isn't it right? Like you said, 765 00:35:08,481 --> 00:35:10,561 Speaker 1: you have an intent to want them to be better? 766 00:35:10,841 --> 00:35:13,121 Speaker 1: Whereas I don't know if everyone gets into that headspace 767 00:35:13,161 --> 00:35:15,681 Speaker 1: before they deliver feedback, is that really their intention or 768 00:35:15,801 --> 00:35:17,161 Speaker 1: is it to prove a point or is it to 769 00:35:17,241 --> 00:35:18,761 Speaker 1: be right correct? 770 00:35:19,641 --> 00:35:22,201 Speaker 2: This is probably one of the biggest learnings for me 771 00:35:22,321 --> 00:35:25,401 Speaker 2: over my career as well, is people, I mean people 772 00:35:25,521 --> 00:35:27,121 Speaker 2: want to be right. Of course, you want to be right, 773 00:35:27,201 --> 00:35:31,201 Speaker 2: and particularly technical people like knowledge workers or people that 774 00:35:31,441 --> 00:35:34,161 Speaker 2: have a technical skill if that's being kind of disrespected 775 00:35:34,281 --> 00:35:37,601 Speaker 2: or challenged. And again it comes back to creating those environments. 776 00:35:37,721 --> 00:35:40,441 Speaker 2: But you know, it's like slowing down past a car crash, right, 777 00:35:40,521 --> 00:35:42,481 Speaker 2: Are you slowing down because you want to get out 778 00:35:42,481 --> 00:35:44,921 Speaker 2: and help somebody that's just been in a motor vehicle accident? 779 00:35:45,041 --> 00:35:47,561 Speaker 2: Or are you slowing down because you have this seen 780 00:35:47,801 --> 00:35:51,041 Speaker 2: curiosity about wanting to know what happened. If you're giving 781 00:35:51,121 --> 00:35:53,321 Speaker 2: feedback that you think you're giving because you want to 782 00:35:53,361 --> 00:35:55,201 Speaker 2: say I told you so, or you want to say 783 00:35:55,761 --> 00:35:58,001 Speaker 2: you did the wrong thing, then you should just be 784 00:35:58,121 --> 00:36:03,441 Speaker 2: quiet really because and I'm not perfect, I'm laughing now 785 00:36:03,481 --> 00:36:06,681 Speaker 2: because one of my team will be going right. So 786 00:36:07,321 --> 00:36:09,361 Speaker 2: you know, you said I told you so this week, 787 00:36:09,441 --> 00:36:12,121 Speaker 2: and there was something that I went, oh geez. I 788 00:36:12,241 --> 00:36:15,481 Speaker 2: got some really great advice from a great CEO when 789 00:36:15,521 --> 00:36:19,681 Speaker 2: I started, which is my job is to only intervene 790 00:36:20,281 --> 00:36:25,000 Speaker 2: if something's going to go really wrong. Otherwise empower people, 791 00:36:25,081 --> 00:36:27,321 Speaker 2: let them go, let them make mistakes. If it's going 792 00:36:27,401 --> 00:36:29,681 Speaker 2: to be kind of you know, a serious impact to 793 00:36:29,721 --> 00:36:31,801 Speaker 2: the business, then of course you have to intervene and 794 00:36:31,961 --> 00:36:35,241 Speaker 2: share your opinion and maybe give different direction. But if 795 00:36:35,281 --> 00:36:37,361 Speaker 2: you're giving regular feedback all the time, if you're having 796 00:36:37,401 --> 00:36:40,001 Speaker 2: those robust conversations and you're doing it in a way 797 00:36:40,041 --> 00:36:43,321 Speaker 2: that's compassionate and kind, then it becomes the norm. But 798 00:36:43,481 --> 00:36:47,041 Speaker 2: I think that too often feedback is maybe a leader's 799 00:36:47,081 --> 00:36:52,241 Speaker 2: opinion and not a constructive learning, or it's personally driven. 800 00:36:52,401 --> 00:36:54,841 Speaker 2: If what you're about to deliver isn't going to serve 801 00:36:54,961 --> 00:36:56,881 Speaker 2: that person, then I think you need to take that 802 00:36:57,041 --> 00:36:59,681 Speaker 2: moment to pause as a leader and go, how is 803 00:36:59,721 --> 00:37:01,881 Speaker 2: this going to make this person better? And if it's 804 00:37:01,921 --> 00:37:03,721 Speaker 2: really just going to make them go home and feel worse, 805 00:37:03,881 --> 00:37:05,001 Speaker 2: then you haven't done your job. 806 00:37:05,201 --> 00:37:07,241 Speaker 1: Yeah, when you talk about compassion. That for me is 807 00:37:07,281 --> 00:37:10,401 Speaker 1: the ear of brave, which is empathy, right, And you 808 00:37:10,441 --> 00:37:12,041 Speaker 1: know you've got to have that part where you're able 809 00:37:12,081 --> 00:37:14,521 Speaker 1: to hold that space or person for an individual like 810 00:37:14,561 --> 00:37:16,881 Speaker 1: yourself who is just self confess go get her and 811 00:37:16,921 --> 00:37:19,401 Speaker 1: get it done. How hard do you find sitting in 812 00:37:19,481 --> 00:37:21,801 Speaker 1: that space of holding space to something like do you 813 00:37:21,801 --> 00:37:23,321 Speaker 1: want to fix it? Or you fix that? Is that 814 00:37:23,441 --> 00:37:25,881 Speaker 1: something you could say? Of course? Is it a space 815 00:37:25,961 --> 00:37:27,241 Speaker 1: for you that you want to grow in? For you 816 00:37:27,321 --> 00:37:29,641 Speaker 1: to think of which area of leadership for you is like, 817 00:37:29,681 --> 00:37:31,361 Speaker 1: that's the one I struggle the most with. Which one 818 00:37:31,401 --> 00:37:32,441 Speaker 1: would that be? For me? 819 00:37:32,601 --> 00:37:35,521 Speaker 2: For sure? It's self mastery, It's when to stop talking, 820 00:37:36,081 --> 00:37:39,721 Speaker 2: when to leave the problems to my team. I'm just 821 00:37:39,801 --> 00:37:42,801 Speaker 2: by nature a person that wants to help people, and 822 00:37:42,921 --> 00:37:44,441 Speaker 2: I do it at home all the time. And my 823 00:37:44,521 --> 00:37:46,321 Speaker 2: kids tell me that they're like, you can't fix this 824 00:37:46,441 --> 00:37:48,321 Speaker 2: problem for me. I just need you to mand me 825 00:37:48,481 --> 00:37:49,841 Speaker 2: and I'm like, yeah, got it. 826 00:37:49,921 --> 00:37:50,121 Speaker 1: Yeah. 827 00:37:50,561 --> 00:37:53,681 Speaker 2: Particularly having a background of operational pedigree, like you kind 828 00:37:53,721 --> 00:37:56,241 Speaker 2: of trained to fix the true and so you have 829 00:37:56,401 --> 00:38:00,161 Speaker 2: to untrain yourself to not fix everything for everyone, or 830 00:38:00,921 --> 00:38:03,481 Speaker 2: set an environment up where they come to you because 831 00:38:03,521 --> 00:38:06,161 Speaker 2: they expect you to fix a problem. So the self 832 00:38:06,241 --> 00:38:10,481 Speaker 2: mastery around that, the self mastery around not taking direct 833 00:38:10,601 --> 00:38:13,561 Speaker 2: action is one that I work on every day. 834 00:38:13,681 --> 00:38:15,761 Speaker 1: Not the worst problem to have, now, Laurie, I could 835 00:38:15,841 --> 00:38:17,961 Speaker 1: literally talk to you for another hour and stuff that 836 00:38:17,961 --> 00:38:19,401 Speaker 1: I know I'm not allowed to and we can't, so 837 00:38:19,401 --> 00:38:21,001 Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to. I've hactually look down my list 838 00:38:21,041 --> 00:38:23,361 Speaker 1: and go, what's two questions I can wrap up his? 839 00:38:23,441 --> 00:38:26,960 Speaker 1: So it's just too oftenish on me. One is what sacrifices, 840 00:38:27,001 --> 00:38:28,401 Speaker 1: if any, do you if you've had to make in 841 00:38:28,601 --> 00:38:30,281 Speaker 1: order to have such a successful career. 842 00:38:30,481 --> 00:38:34,520 Speaker 2: I've made so many sacrifices, Like when I think about 843 00:38:34,561 --> 00:38:38,561 Speaker 2: my career, because I was very ambitious quite young, and 844 00:38:38,641 --> 00:38:40,881 Speaker 2: that can be good and that can be bad. You know, 845 00:38:41,001 --> 00:38:45,241 Speaker 2: I was always job first, location second, So you know, 846 00:38:45,361 --> 00:38:49,321 Speaker 2: the sacrifices around living overseas when my dad is still 847 00:38:49,361 --> 00:38:53,441 Speaker 2: in Canada, the sacrifices around I live now in Victoria, 848 00:38:53,561 --> 00:38:56,521 Speaker 2: which is we love this city and I'm passionate about 849 00:38:56,561 --> 00:38:59,241 Speaker 2: the city and the airport that's in it, but we 850 00:38:59,321 --> 00:39:01,361 Speaker 2: have no family network here, like the rest of my 851 00:39:01,441 --> 00:39:04,201 Speaker 2: family is somewhere else. So I've got a husband that's 852 00:39:04,201 --> 00:39:07,961 Speaker 2: moved away from his Like, we've all made deep sacrifices, 853 00:39:08,041 --> 00:39:11,561 Speaker 2: I think. So I think lots of different family sacrifices 854 00:39:11,601 --> 00:39:15,241 Speaker 2: and family sacrifices around recognizing that I can't be at 855 00:39:15,281 --> 00:39:17,601 Speaker 2: everything and I can't be everything i'd want to be 856 00:39:17,681 --> 00:39:20,440 Speaker 2: for my children and getting okay with that very hard 857 00:39:20,521 --> 00:39:23,241 Speaker 2: to do with mother's guilt. But yeah, I would say 858 00:39:23,321 --> 00:39:27,121 Speaker 2: those you know, friends, family, There's been lots of sacrifices 859 00:39:27,441 --> 00:39:31,001 Speaker 2: along the way, I think, and that's just working out 860 00:39:31,041 --> 00:39:33,041 Speaker 2: that trade off. And like I said, that was kind 861 00:39:33,081 --> 00:39:34,801 Speaker 2: of one of the turning points for me with my son, 862 00:39:35,121 --> 00:39:37,681 Speaker 2: is making the call to say, I'm not going to 863 00:39:37,721 --> 00:39:40,681 Speaker 2: sacrifice this time right now, but you'll never get it perfect. 864 00:39:40,921 --> 00:39:42,681 Speaker 1: I think that's why it's so important to make sure 865 00:39:42,721 --> 00:39:45,241 Speaker 1: that you're doing something you're passionate about. You have to 866 00:39:45,281 --> 00:39:46,801 Speaker 1: look at kids in the face and then to see 867 00:39:46,841 --> 00:39:48,521 Speaker 1: that look what mum's been able to do and give, 868 00:39:48,561 --> 00:39:49,561 Speaker 1: and look how happy it makes her. 869 00:39:49,721 --> 00:39:49,841 Speaker 3: Right. 870 00:39:49,921 --> 00:39:51,561 Speaker 1: I think that's a big part of that. So I 871 00:39:51,681 --> 00:39:54,401 Speaker 1: get that, all right. Last question for you, Laurie, I 872 00:39:54,441 --> 00:39:57,001 Speaker 1: guess aviation is off the table. You're not allowed to 873 00:39:57,041 --> 00:39:59,801 Speaker 1: do aviation. You weren't allowed to do it. That's sorry, 874 00:39:59,881 --> 00:40:03,041 Speaker 1: it's gone. What other job then would you be doing 875 00:40:03,081 --> 00:40:03,841 Speaker 1: if you couldn't do that? 876 00:40:04,401 --> 00:40:07,520 Speaker 2: This is going to sound really leg as an answer, Okay, 877 00:40:07,921 --> 00:40:10,841 Speaker 2: but I had somebody tell me once it wouldn't have 878 00:40:10,921 --> 00:40:13,361 Speaker 2: to be aviation. It could be widgets and you could 879 00:40:13,361 --> 00:40:17,440 Speaker 2: get passionate about it. In my mind, I am very 880 00:40:17,561 --> 00:40:23,641 Speaker 2: focused on team culture, developing people, lifting people up, creating 881 00:40:23,681 --> 00:40:27,601 Speaker 2: a legacy that matters, creating something that my kids can go, Wow, 882 00:40:27,681 --> 00:40:30,521 Speaker 2: that's pretty awesome. I'm pretty proud of that. Like it's 883 00:40:30,561 --> 00:40:32,761 Speaker 2: funny as I sit here and talk about family sacrifices. 884 00:40:32,841 --> 00:40:35,401 Speaker 2: The irony is I'm fifty two years old and still 885 00:40:35,561 --> 00:40:37,401 Speaker 2: just want my parents and my kids to be proud 886 00:40:37,441 --> 00:40:38,881 Speaker 2: of me, right Like, at the end of the day, 887 00:40:38,961 --> 00:40:42,161 Speaker 2: that's what we all want. I mean, people may laugh 888 00:40:42,201 --> 00:40:43,601 Speaker 2: when they hear this. I don't think it has to 889 00:40:43,681 --> 00:40:46,721 Speaker 2: be aviation. I think it has to be a company. 890 00:40:47,041 --> 00:40:49,241 Speaker 2: It has to be something that has purpose and meaning, 891 00:40:49,681 --> 00:40:52,961 Speaker 2: and that could be anything connected to customers. But it's 892 00:40:52,961 --> 00:40:55,681 Speaker 2: about the team and the opportunity to deliver. And that 893 00:40:55,841 --> 00:40:58,881 Speaker 2: is why I get so passionate about Melbourne and Lonsstin Airport. 894 00:40:58,921 --> 00:41:02,361 Speaker 2: Also we own and operate. They are both two airports 895 00:41:02,401 --> 00:41:05,481 Speaker 2: that are going through massive transformation, big growth. You know, 896 00:41:05,561 --> 00:41:07,881 Speaker 2: we're delivering the biggest airport to the biggest city by 897 00:41:07,961 --> 00:41:11,761 Speaker 2: twenty three. And if I can leave that legacy job 898 00:41:11,841 --> 00:41:14,761 Speaker 2: done and that I hope is something that everyone at 899 00:41:14,801 --> 00:41:16,921 Speaker 2: the airport and in the city can be proud of. 900 00:41:17,041 --> 00:41:19,921 Speaker 2: I want to walk away knowing that. You know, Victorians 901 00:41:19,961 --> 00:41:23,041 Speaker 2: love this airport. But there's lots of different outsets and 902 00:41:23,121 --> 00:41:25,601 Speaker 2: lots of different companies. I'm sure that could be passionate 903 00:41:25,641 --> 00:41:27,401 Speaker 2: about that as well, But it does come back to me, 904 00:41:27,641 --> 00:41:30,521 Speaker 2: I think to say, what's the opportunity, what do they 905 00:41:30,561 --> 00:41:32,361 Speaker 2: stand for? What do they believe in? Would I want 906 00:41:32,401 --> 00:41:32,961 Speaker 2: to be a part of that? 907 00:41:33,161 --> 00:41:35,281 Speaker 1: That's where I start, you know, even though in my 908 00:41:35,401 --> 00:41:37,241 Speaker 1: head I was thinking, I wonder if she'll say professional 909 00:41:37,361 --> 00:41:41,440 Speaker 1: skateboarder or you know, something out there. I actually loved 910 00:41:41,481 --> 00:41:44,161 Speaker 1: that because it leaks nicely to something I picked up 911 00:41:44,161 --> 00:41:46,561 Speaker 1: when I was looking through your resume. There was one 912 00:41:46,681 --> 00:41:48,321 Speaker 1: time you left and you went and did I think 913 00:41:48,321 --> 00:41:50,161 Speaker 1: you went for urban utilities for two years, right, so 914 00:41:50,241 --> 00:41:52,641 Speaker 1: you got out of aviation to years and I think 915 00:41:52,681 --> 00:41:54,721 Speaker 1: the one thing I read when you were talking about 916 00:41:54,801 --> 00:41:58,641 Speaker 1: that was that what you recognized during that time was 917 00:41:58,681 --> 00:42:00,881 Speaker 1: that what people need is good leadership, right that it 918 00:42:00,961 --> 00:42:03,361 Speaker 1: needs to transcend industry. And I think that's what your 919 00:42:03,401 --> 00:42:05,401 Speaker 1: aunts is beautifully saying, right that, Yeah, I know you 920 00:42:05,481 --> 00:42:07,480 Speaker 1: love aviation, but you just want to be a really 921 00:42:07,561 --> 00:42:09,601 Speaker 1: really good leader and have an impact on no matter 922 00:42:09,681 --> 00:42:12,081 Speaker 1: where that is. I love watching a journey, Laurie, and 923 00:42:12,161 --> 00:42:13,721 Speaker 1: thank you so much for coming on here. It's been 924 00:42:13,721 --> 00:42:15,401 Speaker 1: a pleasure. It's been great to see you again. 925 00:42:15,561 --> 00:42:16,641 Speaker 2: Thank you and about you too.