1 00:00:02,200 --> 00:00:06,840 Speaker 1: From the newsroom and news to come today. Gooday there, 2 00:00:06,880 --> 00:00:09,399 Speaker 1: I'm Andrew Buckalow online for you today at news dot 3 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:11,800 Speaker 1: com dot Au. We've got the latest from Diddy's trial, 4 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 1: which is well and truly underway. The music mogul has 5 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:18,239 Speaker 1: pleaded not guilty to racketeering and sex trafficking charges. What 6 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:21,200 Speaker 1: about news dot com dot au reporters benedicte Brook has 7 00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 1: been attending the trial in New York, BB, what's it 8 00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:24,800 Speaker 1: been like so far? 9 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:28,160 Speaker 2: It's been an incredibly lurid start to this trial. There's 10 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:30,760 Speaker 2: been allegations of beatings, of women forced to have sex 11 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:34,120 Speaker 2: of men, of men forced to urinate on women. But 12 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:37,839 Speaker 2: Combs's defense team has said, look, undoubtedly he's a man 13 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:40,400 Speaker 2: praying to violence, but the charges is up against they 14 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:41,159 Speaker 2: just don't add up. 15 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:44,120 Speaker 1: Okay, thank you, BB. You can also check out news 16 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:45,880 Speaker 1: dot com dot a U for the latest on Bindi 17 00:00:46,040 --> 00:00:48,760 Speaker 1: Erwin's health scare and the fallout from the Liberal Party's 18 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:52,280 Speaker 1: leadership vote yesterday. But enough about what's online. You're probably 19 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:53,720 Speaker 1: wondering what the hell it is I'm going to talk 20 00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:58,800 Speaker 1: about in this episode, and the answer is furries. Yes, furries. 21 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:01,000 Speaker 1: There's been a lot of talk about in the media lately, 22 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:04,520 Speaker 1: including some claims that some schools are accommodating furries by 23 00:01:04,600 --> 00:01:08,160 Speaker 1: letting students act like animals. At the time of recording 24 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:11,319 Speaker 1: this podcast, those claims are unverified and to be honest, 25 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:13,920 Speaker 1: rather than discuss all the controversy, I thought it would 26 00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:16,320 Speaker 1: be better to chat to an actual fury, to hear 27 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:18,640 Speaker 1: their point of view and to try and understand what 28 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:21,760 Speaker 1: this subculture is all about. So that's exactly what we're 29 00:01:21,760 --> 00:01:28,000 Speaker 1: gonna do. Max is a twenty six year old furry 30 00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:30,280 Speaker 1: from Canberra and they join me now to explain what 31 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:33,919 Speaker 1: being a furry is all about. Welcome Max, Hi, thanks 32 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:36,000 Speaker 1: for having me. If I had never heard of the 33 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:39,720 Speaker 1: term fury before, how would you describe a furry to someone? 34 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:44,680 Speaker 3: I guess the Google definition is someone who has an 35 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 3: appreciation of anthropomorphism, which is the act of giving something 36 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:57,040 Speaker 3: that isn't a human human characteristics, specifically animals. So it's 37 00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:03,520 Speaker 3: people who like anthropomorphic animals and things like Disney, Robin 38 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:07,280 Speaker 3: Hood and Zootopia and The Light in King stuff like that. 39 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:10,920 Speaker 1: I am not entirely sure what the word anthrop whatever 40 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:13,280 Speaker 1: that word was, what exactly does that mean? 41 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:18,920 Speaker 3: So yeah, giving something like an animal human trait. So 42 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 3: if you've seen Disney Zootopia, animals that wear clothes and 43 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:25,880 Speaker 3: walk around on two legs and act as people. A 44 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:28,960 Speaker 3: lot of furries have a what's called a persona, which 45 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:33,560 Speaker 3: is on the word persona, which is an animal character 46 00:02:33,639 --> 00:02:35,720 Speaker 3: that's sort of a version of you that you use 47 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 3: as an avatar. 48 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:39,720 Speaker 1: So what first drew you to the fairy community and 49 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:40,760 Speaker 1: how did you get involved. 50 00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:44,600 Speaker 3: I think I stumbled upon it online when I was 51 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:49,360 Speaker 3: thirteen or so, and it was just this really kind 52 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:52,959 Speaker 3: of weird thing. I was going on YouTube and seeing 53 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:56,360 Speaker 3: videos of these people dressed up in these animal costumes, 54 00:02:56,960 --> 00:02:58,680 Speaker 3: and it just kind of drew me in and I 55 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:01,160 Speaker 3: was like, oh my god, what is this? Like, this 56 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:04,480 Speaker 3: is so cool. I've always been sort of a very 57 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:11,240 Speaker 3: artistic person and always really been interested in performing. Something 58 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:13,480 Speaker 3: clicked in my brain where I was like, yeah, this 59 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:16,360 Speaker 3: is I like this, this is what I want to do. 60 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:20,679 Speaker 3: I know, it's really weird. Like I'm definitely not oblivious 61 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:22,320 Speaker 3: to the fact that most people think this is the 62 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:26,560 Speaker 3: weirdest thing ever, but something worked for me there. I 63 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 3: was like, this is really cool, and the creativity of 64 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:32,400 Speaker 3: it just really yeh hit for me. 65 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 1: So what's your first sona. 66 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:42,320 Speaker 3: My persona is a dog chow Chow, which is my 67 00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:46,600 Speaker 3: favorite dog breed. And yeah, my persona is Max. 68 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:50,560 Speaker 1: And so do you have a costume? Like I assume 69 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 1: you do? 70 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:54,600 Speaker 3: I do, a lot of people don't. I think a 71 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 3: lot of people assume that that's really the center of it. 72 00:03:57,200 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 3: But most of my friends who are very don't actually 73 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:00,800 Speaker 3: have a costume. 74 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:01,320 Speaker 1: I do. 75 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 3: I commissioned one a couple of years ago, and it's 76 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:08,200 Speaker 3: a really cool piece of art to own. I don't 77 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:11,920 Speaker 3: wear it all that often. Surprisingly, I spend most of 78 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:15,480 Speaker 3: my time even doing furry stuff out of costume. 79 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:18,800 Speaker 1: Wow, that's really interesting to me. I didn't even know that. 80 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:21,719 Speaker 1: You know, some furries didn't dress that up. Just quickly 81 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:23,919 Speaker 1: on the costume? Can you describe it to us and 82 00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:26,039 Speaker 1: tell us, like, you know how much it costs? 83 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:32,520 Speaker 3: It's a very fluffy, pink creation made out of foam 84 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:38,400 Speaker 3: and fake fur. It costs me about sixteen hundred dollars, right, 85 00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 3: I know people who have spent a lot more. 86 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:43,040 Speaker 1: How much are we talking? 87 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:43,280 Speaker 3: Like? 88 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:46,080 Speaker 1: What's at a high end kind of furry costume? 89 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:49,600 Speaker 3: There was one that went on auction a couple of 90 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:54,560 Speaker 3: years ago that went for fifty thousand dollars. Wow that 91 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:58,240 Speaker 3: I think the average price nowadays for like a full 92 00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:03,440 Speaker 3: costume is probably sitting around the eight k ten kmusch Yes, 93 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:05,839 Speaker 3: and so investment. 94 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:09,880 Speaker 1: Your costume has like has a head piece as well 95 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:11,120 Speaker 1: as the body piece. 96 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:14,120 Speaker 3: So it's mine is just the head piece, So a 97 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:16,359 Speaker 3: lot of people will just have the head and maybe 98 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:19,080 Speaker 3: like tail and some gloves. 99 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:22,599 Speaker 1: So what role does being a furry play in your life? 100 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:24,720 Speaker 1: Is it more of a hobby, is it an identities 101 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 1: or something else? 102 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:29,440 Speaker 3: Entirely, It's definitely a hobby for me. But on the 103 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:31,800 Speaker 3: other hand, it is a really big part of my life. 104 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:36,240 Speaker 3: I am kind of privileged enough that I'm able to 105 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:39,039 Speaker 3: do art full time, and that is due to the 106 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 3: furry community. So like my job is kind of furry 107 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:46,359 Speaker 3: as well. And I owe most of my social life 108 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 3: to people who are ferries. Most of my friends are. 109 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:54,160 Speaker 3: I go to events every month or so. It is 110 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:56,880 Speaker 3: still just a hobby for me more than anything, but 111 00:05:56,960 --> 00:06:00,000 Speaker 3: it also is quite an encompassing part of my life. 112 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:02,679 Speaker 1: Here's one thing I think people often get confused about, 113 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:06,040 Speaker 1: like do you see yourself, you know, as a dog? 114 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:08,800 Speaker 1: Twenty four to seven, Like do you, you know, bark 115 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 1: or anything like that. 116 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:17,320 Speaker 3: I am definitely a person. I'm not negligent of that fact. 117 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:19,960 Speaker 3: I'm a person. I don't go around barking at people. 118 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:23,360 Speaker 3: I wear normal clothes, and that is the case for 119 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:26,320 Speaker 3: ninety nine percent of people that you will meet. We're 120 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:29,960 Speaker 3: really just normal. I mean, you do meet some weirdos, 121 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:34,240 Speaker 3: but for the most part you really wouldn't be able 122 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 3: to tell on a first meeting. 123 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:39,560 Speaker 1: So it's more like an internal thing for a lot 124 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 1: of Furries. 125 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:44,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, like faury is really just a hobby for the 126 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:48,960 Speaker 3: majority of people, it's just an appreciation of the art 127 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:51,200 Speaker 3: and the community that's there. 128 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:54,080 Speaker 1: Another thing that a lot of people would like to know, 129 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:56,920 Speaker 1: is there a sexual element at all to being a Fury. 130 00:06:57,440 --> 00:07:02,560 Speaker 3: Look for me personally, no, and for most people I know, no, gotcha. Obviously, 131 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:05,920 Speaker 3: it's a very big community, and for some people it 132 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 3: is interesting, I think acting like that's it for everyone. 133 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 3: For most people, it's really just not And I think 134 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:16,280 Speaker 3: people have this assumption when they see something weird, they go, oh, 135 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:20,360 Speaker 3: it must be a sex thing, But really thinking that 136 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:23,120 Speaker 3: is really a disservice to the sheer amount of just 137 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 3: like creativity and community that comes out of this like subculture. 138 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:33,160 Speaker 3: Yeah again, I owe so much of my social life 139 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 3: too furries. And yeah, for me, it was never really 140 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:37,880 Speaker 3: a sex thing. 141 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:40,680 Speaker 1: Well from Maxing, just a moment including what they think. 142 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:51,080 Speaker 1: The biggest misconception about furries is welcome back. I am 143 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:54,800 Speaker 1: chatting to Max, a twenty six year old furry from Canberra. Now, Max, 144 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:56,920 Speaker 1: when you and your faury friends get together, what do 145 00:07:57,000 --> 00:07:57,600 Speaker 1: you get up to? 146 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:01,640 Speaker 3: So I'm part of a local We go out to 147 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:05,720 Speaker 3: dinner once a week in the city. We host art 148 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 3: meets every now and then where we just get together 149 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 3: and draw out or create stuff or work in our 150 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:15,040 Speaker 3: different little projects. And then of course there's conventions, which 151 00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 3: Australia has a couple, which are just these big weekend 152 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:22,360 Speaker 3: gatherings at a hotel. I think the biggest one in 153 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:25,920 Speaker 3: Gold Coast has close to fifteen hundred tottendees. 154 00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:26,440 Speaker 1: Wow. 155 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:32,120 Speaker 3: And it's just people hanging out causing chaos. Yeah, it's 156 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 3: a really fun time. 157 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:35,000 Speaker 1: So when you go out to dinner once a week, 158 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:37,320 Speaker 1: are there some people in your group who are dressed 159 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:38,480 Speaker 1: up in their costumes? 160 00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:42,360 Speaker 3: Not at all. We just hang out like normal friends. 161 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:46,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, gotcha. And how would you describe the community culture, Like, 162 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:48,600 Speaker 1: is there a particular ethos or a set of values 163 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:51,000 Speaker 1: that brings people together in the Ferry community. 164 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:58,360 Speaker 3: It's definitely this common consensus of self expression and escapism. 165 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:03,439 Speaker 3: I think we live in society today where people can 166 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:05,560 Speaker 3: really relate to not really wanting to be a person. 167 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:10,160 Speaker 3: It's a tough environment to live in. You got the 168 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:14,120 Speaker 3: cost of living, crisis, and just everything going on overseas, 169 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 3: and I think fairies are just people who kind of 170 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:20,840 Speaker 3: took that idea and ran with it, where sometimes it's 171 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:23,560 Speaker 3: nice to just kind of not be a human for 172 00:09:23,679 --> 00:09:24,240 Speaker 3: a little bit. 173 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:28,760 Speaker 1: Fairies are often misunderstood in the mainstream media. What's one 174 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:31,840 Speaker 1: thing you wish more people knew or understood about the community. 175 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:35,680 Speaker 3: I mean, obviously there's the kind of assuming it's a 176 00:09:35,760 --> 00:09:39,240 Speaker 3: fetish thing. You know, I have been asked before, and 177 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:42,679 Speaker 3: it's it's not the nicest thing when someone just goes, oh, 178 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:46,120 Speaker 3: you must be a part of it. But I wish 179 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:50,640 Speaker 3: people just realize that most people are pretty normal. I 180 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:53,560 Speaker 3: have friends obviously living in camera. Most of my friends 181 00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:55,560 Speaker 3: are aps. I like to say there's a furry in 182 00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:58,160 Speaker 3: every workplace, because most of the time you just want 183 00:09:58,160 --> 00:09:59,239 Speaker 3: to be able to tell. 184 00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:01,560 Speaker 1: There are quite a the news stories that pop up 185 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:04,080 Speaker 1: that claim there are schools in Australia where a student 186 00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 1: is a furry and the school indulges them and allows 187 00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:08,439 Speaker 1: them to act like an animal at school, things like that. 188 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:12,960 Speaker 1: I haven't verified any of those reports at all. If 189 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:14,640 Speaker 1: that's true, what's your take on that? Do you think 190 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 1: schools like should acknowledge or cater to that identity in 191 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 1: any specific way. 192 00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:22,120 Speaker 3: I don't think it's true. I don't think there's been 193 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:25,640 Speaker 3: any reliable sources on the whole. Oh we put a 194 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:30,680 Speaker 3: little box in the bathroom thing. Yeah, and again, kids 195 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:36,040 Speaker 3: are kids. Kids pretend to be animals. That's always been 196 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:39,120 Speaker 3: I think, even if they're not ferries, kids play pretend. 197 00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:43,000 Speaker 3: And I think treating it like it's, you know, an 198 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:45,880 Speaker 3: identity that we have to you know, I just don't. 199 00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:49,560 Speaker 3: I think that's sensationalism. Yeah, and I hear that and 200 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:51,320 Speaker 3: I just got to roll my eyes and go. Then 201 00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:52,839 Speaker 3: it's not true though, is it. 202 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:56,280 Speaker 1: Yeah? Just over a week ago, a man in a 203 00:10:56,320 --> 00:11:00,000 Speaker 1: furry costume was assaulted in Adelaide, evening the man dress 204 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:02,600 Speaker 1: in an animal costume. It's been attacked in Rundle Maure. 205 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:05,240 Speaker 1: The victim telling nine Yews he was the target of 206 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:05,960 Speaker 1: a hate crime. 207 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:08,640 Speaker 4: Twenty year old Dennis is a member of the so 208 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:13,280 Speaker 4: called furry community. His attackers could be heard shouting slurs 209 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:17,240 Speaker 4: during the violent rule, which is now being investigated by police. 210 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:21,320 Speaker 1: Have you faced any stigma or awkward situations because of 211 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:22,080 Speaker 1: being a furry. 212 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:28,400 Speaker 3: I've been pretty lucky. I haven't really had any supernegative experiences. 213 00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:31,240 Speaker 3: There have been a couple of times where I've gone 214 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:35,559 Speaker 3: to a event in costume and so someone honks at you, 215 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:40,160 Speaker 3: or you know, teenagers try and kind of cause a 216 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:43,439 Speaker 3: little bit of chaos, but nothing too bad personally. 217 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:46,600 Speaker 1: And what about your family? Are you open with them 218 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 1: about the fact you're a furry and if so, how 219 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:50,120 Speaker 1: did they react. 220 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:52,640 Speaker 3: Oh, my family doesn't really care. They think it's cool. 221 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:55,400 Speaker 3: They asked me questions about I've shown them my costume 222 00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:58,600 Speaker 3: and my art, and my mum asked me a lot 223 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:02,160 Speaker 3: of questions about it. They don't I think altogether, they 224 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:04,679 Speaker 3: don't really mind too much. I think they were a 225 00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:07,000 Speaker 3: little put off when I first came to them at 226 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:11,800 Speaker 3: like fifteen, and I was like, mom, a furry. But 227 00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:14,920 Speaker 3: I have a really good relationship with my parents and 228 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:17,000 Speaker 3: they really don't mind at all. 229 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:18,920 Speaker 1: Max, This has been so fascinating to chat to you. 230 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:20,920 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for telling us about your life 231 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:23,800 Speaker 1: as a furry. I really appreciate it and hopefully it 232 00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:26,360 Speaker 1: just helps more people understand what it's really about. 233 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:28,439 Speaker 3: Yeah, no worries, Thank you for talking with me. 234 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 1: That's it for today's episode of From the Newsroom. I 235 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:32,120 Speaker 1: will chat to you again tomorrow. 236 00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:36,360 Speaker 3: Follow or subscribe to From the Newsroom wherever you get 237 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:38,160 Speaker 3: your podcasts.