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Speaker 1: You can listen to the Front on your smart speaker

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Speaker 1: every morning to hear the latest episode. Just say play

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Speaker 1: the news from the Australian.

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Speaker 2: From the Australian, Here's what's on the Front. I'm Claire Harvey.

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Speaker 2: It's Wednesday, September eighteen. Anthony Albanezi is pleading for peace

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Speaker 2: with big business, telling CEOs at a dinner on Tuesday

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Speaker 2: night he wants to cooperate with industry rather than fighting

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Speaker 2: about industrial relations and climate mitigation. A Liberal Party culture

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Speaker 2: war over women's spaces and trans rites has spilled into

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Speaker 2: the courts, with firebrand MP Moira Deeming suing the Victorian

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Speaker 2: or Position leader John Persuto for allegedly defaming her when

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Speaker 2: he kicked her out of the party. That story, complete

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Speaker 2: with gripping secret audio, is today's deep Dive. We've used

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Speaker 2: voice actors throughout this episode to bring you the words

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Speaker 2: spoken in court. Moi Redeeming is a Victorian politician in

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Speaker 2: her early forties. A member of the state's upper House,

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Speaker 2: she sits as an independent Liberal, a label she gave

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Speaker 2: herself after she was expelled from the Liberal Party. She's

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Speaker 2: a mother of four, married for two decades. A former

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Speaker 2: high school teacher who was elected first to her local

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Speaker 2: council then in twenty twenty two to Parliament on the

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Speaker 2: strength of the big issue that drives her.

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Speaker 3: Women and girls are suffering in Victoria because this government

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Speaker 3: cannot or will not define what a female is, and

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Speaker 3: as a result, every woman and every girl in Victoria

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Speaker 3: has lost the right to enjoy female only sports, female

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Speaker 3: only chang and countless other female only activities.

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Speaker 2: This is Deeming's first speech to Parliament.

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Speaker 3: As a result, there is right now, at this very moment,

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Speaker 3: a twice convicted male rapist housed with the female prisoners

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Speaker 3: in my area in the Dame Philis Frost Correctional Facility.

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Speaker 3: They are the most vulnerable women of all. Surely there

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Speaker 3: must be ways to ensure the safety and dignity of

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Speaker 3: trans people which do not trample on the rights of

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Speaker 3: women and girls.

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Speaker 2: Deeming was part of a wave of women from both

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Speaker 2: the right and the left of politics expressing concern about

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Speaker 2: what they considered the erasure of women. They were taking

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Speaker 2: on an equally passionate group advocates who say they're fighting

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Speaker 2: for the rights of children and young people struggling with

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Speaker 2: or wanting to change their gender identity. A couple of

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Speaker 2: years back, as Black Lives Matter faded and before Israel

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Speaker 2: Gaza snatched the limelight, this was the hottest social issue

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Speaker 2: of all and for the liberals it made Deeming too

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Speaker 2: hot to handle. It's march in Melbourne twenty twenty three,

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Speaker 2: a group of protesters gather on the steps of Victorious Parliament.

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Speaker 2: It's called Let Women Speak and it's organized by Kelly

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Speaker 2: J Keene Minshol, who also goes by the name Posey Parker.

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Speaker 2: The British activist believes the push for trans rights is

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Speaker 2: eroding womanhood.

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Speaker 4: We don't need to be on the far side of anything,

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Speaker 4: but we will not lie and we will not let

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Speaker 4: you lie.

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Speaker 5: To our children.

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Speaker 2: In attendance is Victorian MP Moira Deeming. She's helped organize

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Speaker 2: the rally and she delivers a speech to the group.

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Speaker 2: Then all hell breaks loose Violencer rocks as members of

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Speaker 2: the neo Nazi group crash the rally. Police quickly losing control.

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Speaker 2: The so called Nazi's performer salute and hold a banner

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Speaker 2: declaring destroy pedo Freaks. In a post on the social

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Speaker 2: media platform x, Deeming rights.

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Speaker 6: Disappointed with Victoria police who let a bunch of masked

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Speaker 6: men into the Let Women Speak buffer zone, terrifying women

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Speaker 6: who were just trying to speak about their rights. Police

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Speaker 6: managed to stop hordes of trans Writes activists, but somehow

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Speaker 6: could only walk masked men past us as they did

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Speaker 6: a horrible Nazi salute.

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Speaker 2: After the rally. On eighteen March twenty twenty three, Deeming

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Speaker 2: publishes a video of herself with Keen and fellow activists

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Speaker 2: Angie Jones and Katherine Deeves, in which they drink champagne.

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Speaker 2: A day later, on March nineteen, Victorian Liberal leader John

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Speaker 2: Persudo issues a press release signaling his intention to boot

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Speaker 2: Deeming from the party. The day after the press release,

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Speaker 2: John Persudo doubles down, Deeming his first suspended then expelled

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Speaker 2: from the party. She vows to fight the expulsion, and

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Speaker 2: now she's suing Pursudo for defamation. The basis of Deming's

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Speaker 2: claim is the press release issued by Persudo's office. She

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Speaker 2: says her reputation has suffered serious harm because that press

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Speaker 2: release contained an imputation she supports and sympathizes with neo

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Speaker 2: Nazis and white supremacists, or that she is one in

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Speaker 2: the fallout. Demon claims her electorate office was vandalized, She

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Speaker 2: was uninvited from community events and threatened online and over

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Speaker 2: the phone. She claims someone tried to access the backyard

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Speaker 2: of her family home, where her four children play. She

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Speaker 2: says the hatred drummed up by Persudo's campaign against her

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Speaker 2: hasn't subsided. Perseudo is relying on defenses of contextual truth

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Speaker 2: and honest opinion about a matter of public interest. He

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Speaker 2: says Deeming is not a fit and proper person to

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Speaker 2: be in the Liberal Party. On Tuesday, the Court was

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Speaker 2: played a remarkable piece of audio, the kind of behind

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Speaker 2: the scenes action of politics that we've all seen on

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Speaker 2: the West Wing or House of Cards. But this is real.

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Speaker 2: There are four MPs, including John Persudo, confronting Deeming. Their

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Speaker 2: frustration isn't so much about what Deming said, It's about

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Speaker 2: who else she's associated with, Like failed Liberal New South

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Speaker 2: Wales candidate Katherine Deves. Persudo is deeply frustrated because he

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Speaker 2: believes Deming's high profile activities are stopping his bid to

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Speaker 2: bring down Labor Premier Dan Andrews. The words from the

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Speaker 2: tape are read by voice actors. First, John Persudo.

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Speaker 7: I'll be honest with whatever we're talking about. We could

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Speaker 7: find Daniel Andrews robbing a seven or eleven. But if you

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Speaker 7: bring Catherine Deeves down, everyone's going to go. I don't

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Speaker 7: care about that Catherine Deeves is in town.

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Speaker 2: Much of the discussion in the audio is about the

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Speaker 2: actions of others at the rally on the steps, first

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Speaker 2: Angie Jones, a women's rights activist who tweeted.

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Speaker 1: Nazis and women want to get rid of pedo felth,

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Speaker 1: why don't you, And.

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Speaker 2: The presence of a neo Nazi group whose leader Thomas

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Speaker 2: Sule put out a statement saying this.

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Speaker 8: Today in Melbourne, the National Socialist Network acted as a

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Speaker 8: vanguard for protest against a constant pedophilia agenda being forced

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Speaker 8: upon our children and our people. Pedophiles deserve destruction and

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Speaker 8: the only solution to this sickness is a white revolution.

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Speaker 8: Destroy the pedo freaks.

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Speaker 2: After the break the secret Liberal tape at their meeting

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Speaker 2: with Moira Deeming, Persuto and the other liberals tell her

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Speaker 2: it's wrong to associate herself with people who link the

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Speaker 2: LGBTI community with pedophilia. Later, in its cross examination of

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Speaker 2: MOI Redeeming the barrister representing John Persudo, Matt Collins case

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Speaker 2: pointed out the Nazis in World War II rounded up

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Speaker 2: and brutally persecuted gay people. Collins also pointed out prior

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Speaker 2: to social media posts by Kelly J Keen Minshole, including

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Speaker 2: changing her profile picture to an image of a Barbie

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Speaker 2: doll wearing a Nazi uniform, and a twenty twenty tweet

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Speaker 2: in which Colin said Kelly J. Keen Minshole showed a

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Speaker 2: rainbow colored Gestapo logo and the word pride starpo.

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Speaker 9: What it does is it equates the rainbow flag, a

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Speaker 9: symbol of pride for LGBTI plus people, with the operations

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Speaker 9: of the Gestapo who rounded up gay people and sent

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Speaker 9: them to their deaths. Now, one can have a civilized

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Speaker 9: debate about whether advocates for trans and gender diverse people's

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Speaker 9: rights do so in a civilized way or ought to

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Speaker 9: adopt a different tone, But to equate them with the

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Speaker 9: most murderous regime in the history of the world is odious. Yes,

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Speaker 9: this is a case about whether mister Persuto honestly held

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Speaker 9: the view that a person who associated with someone who

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Speaker 9: would post that kind of content is a fit and

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Speaker 9: proper person to be in the party that he leads during.

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Speaker 2: The meeting, Deeming tells Persudo she had no idea the

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Speaker 2: Nazis were attending.

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Speaker 6: The first time I saw them doing a Nazi salute

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Speaker 6: was when they were being ushered by the police, and

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Speaker 6: I was thinking, oh my gosh, there are Nazis here.

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Speaker 6: That's terrible. But at least the police are taking them away.

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Speaker 6: That's it. Very obviously. I'm not a Nazi and I

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Speaker 6: don't support Nazis.

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Speaker 2: Another deputy Liberal leader, David Southwick, says, do.

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Speaker 10: You want to be part of a team this team?

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Speaker 10: The actions of every individual reflect on our team, and

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Speaker 10: as a Jew in terms of what happened on those

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Speaker 10: steps and the people that you associate with in that

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Speaker 10: video afterwards is highly offensive. And I respect that you're

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Speaker 10: able to have your views one percent. They're not my views,

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Speaker 10: but they're your honest views.

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Speaker 6: Deeming replies, but, honestly, what views do you think I

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Speaker 6: have legitimately that are so terrible? Like do you actually

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Speaker 6: think that I'm some kind of secret Nazi.

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Speaker 10: The issues that I have are more about the group

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Speaker 10: that you associate with that have associations and have been

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Speaker 10: associated with no Nazis. After everything happened, you chose to

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Speaker 10: have Champagne on a couch with these individuals.

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Speaker 2: MP Georgie Crozier chimes in, I'll be really blood I

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Speaker 2: am beyond furious about it, Moiro, because I went to

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Speaker 2: you and I said, we are here to help you,

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Speaker 2: we want you to succeed. I said that, I said,

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Speaker 2: please come to us.

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Speaker 6: We all make mistakes, but this looked deliberate.

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Speaker 2: Eventually, Deeming agrees to disown any of the other people's

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Speaker 2: views about Nazism or pedophilia.

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Speaker 7: If you want to be in the party, there would

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Speaker 7: have to be some clear if you like road rules,

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Speaker 7: you can't hang out with these people. You just can't,

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Speaker 7: and you can't go to rallies.

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Speaker 6: Obviously, I'm not interested in promoting Nazism. It's not a

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Speaker 6: problem you've told me. I don't have to give up

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Speaker 6: my arguments about the laws about balancing sex based rights.

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Speaker 6: I don't want to be a single issue.

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Speaker 2: MP Pezudo sounds like you're softening, But another MP, Matthew

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Speaker 2: Bark says.

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Speaker 5: This, I don't think there is a way forward. So

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Speaker 5: for me, the issue is your friends, the people you

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Speaker 5: worked with, the people you showed through Parliament very openly

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Speaker 5: and publicly, have a long history of sympathizing with neo

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Speaker 5: Nazis and white supremacists. I don't think a reasonable person

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Speaker 5: would believe you when you say that you had no

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Speaker 5: idea that these are the longstanding stated views of your people.

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Speaker 5: I don't believe you. And it's absolutely clear to me

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Speaker 5: from what you've said that you don't get the seriousness

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Speaker 5: of the matter at all. Your mob have stated white

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Speaker 5: supremacist views, and still we're arguing about exactly what that

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Speaker 5: might mean when they call trans people pedophiles, which of

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Speaker 5: course in and of itself is quite disgusting and disgraceful.

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Speaker 5: So for mine, I don't see your way forward.

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Speaker 2: Deeming's barrister SUCHRISMTHEUSC told the judge the meeting showed PERSUITO

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Speaker 2: came to the meeting determined to sack Deeming.

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Speaker 4: Your honor. This was a shocking pileon of my client

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Speaker 4: by these people, and it's a form of what young

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Speaker 4: people call gaslighting. They don't want to hear her being apologetic.

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Speaker 4: They don't want to hear her making concessions, and that's

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Speaker 4: what she's doing, making concessions in order to fix the situation.

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Speaker 4: They are confusing her, they are changing the topic. They

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Speaker 4: are changing the goalposts, and there's frankly nothing she can say,

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Speaker 4: or do or agree to that will change their minds because,

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Speaker 4: contrary to their evidence, the decision has been made long

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Speaker 4: before this meeting.

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Speaker 2: On Tuesday, Moira Deeming entered the witness box John Persudo's barrister,

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Speaker 2: Matt Collins. Casey went straight to one of the issues

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Speaker 2: that made her famous, a Victorian education program called safe schools.

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Speaker 6: I believe programs like safe schools and others in the

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Speaker 6: same vein play on absolutely justifiable empathy and concern of

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Speaker 6: society for the mistreatment of gay people throughout history, but

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Speaker 6: that in practice it does three things. It removes child

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Speaker 6: safeguarding standards in schools, like male teachers do not supervise

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Speaker 6: female change rooms. It promotes high risk sexual activities whilst

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Speaker 6: downplaying the consequences. And it usurps parental rights.

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Speaker 9: And I don't mean to oversimplify it, Misdeming, but is that,

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Speaker 9: in short order, why you describe the safe school program

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Speaker 9: as silly as quote sleazy, unnecessary drivel lots of it? Absolutely,

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Speaker 9: And you've also publicly described the authors of the safe

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Speaker 9: school program as quote literal pedophilia apologists.

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Speaker 6: That's correct, I think these programs are outrageous and that

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Speaker 6: nothing has to do with bigotry or hate or extremism.

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Speaker 6: These are ordinary standards, and the reason why people consider

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Speaker 6: me controversial is because they don't know the programs as

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Speaker 6: well as I do. And other people go around saying

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Speaker 6: that the reason the only reason someone would disagree with

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Speaker 6: someone something had a wonderful stated purpose was because they

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Speaker 6: hated gay people or something like that, and it's not true.

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Speaker 6: I'm not willing to stop protecting children just because people

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Speaker 6: misrepresent me.

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Speaker 2: Moyer damming. We'll be back in the witness box on Wednesday.

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Speaker 2: You can follow the case live at the Australian dot

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Speaker 2: com dot au