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Speaker 1: So we're driving back up to the Mid North Coast

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Speaker 1: and New South Wales, which is where William Tiler went missing.

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Speaker 1: And I didn't think we'd be coming back, but we've

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Speaker 1: still got questions. And the questions were about one of

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Speaker 1: the people who was held up at the inquest into

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Speaker 1: William's disappearance as a suspect, potential suspect. And his name's

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Speaker 1: Frank Abbott. What do we know about Frank Abbott?

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Speaker 2: So, Frank Abbott is a man that has been around

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Speaker 2: the Mid North Coast since the late eighties or nineties. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: he's lived in both John's River and Heron's Creek, both.

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Speaker 1: Of which and near Kendall where William were missing.

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Speaker 2: And I guess there's no clear connection between.

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Speaker 1: Human except that he keeps talking about it. And that's

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Speaker 1: the thing that stands out, is Frank keeps talking about

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Speaker 1: William's disappearance. There's people who give evidence at the inquest

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Speaker 1: and say that Frank used to bring it up. He

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Speaker 1: used to say that other people must have been involved

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Speaker 1: in what happened to William. Or he would talk about

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Speaker 1: an area of the bush where he said he could

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Speaker 1: smell a body, or he knew what the smell of death.

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Speaker 2: Was and you have a difference between a dead kangaroo and.

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Speaker 1: A dead body. And there was evidence that he actually

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Speaker 1: bragged in front of children that he killed William and

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Speaker 1: disposed of William I think under their house.

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Speaker 2: In a port, in a suitcase, in the suitcase.

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Speaker 1: I mean, look, it wasn't true. There's no evidence, actual

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Speaker 1: evidence that Frank was involved in what happened to William,

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Speaker 1: but Frank keeps talking about it.

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Speaker 2: And inserting himself into the investigation. So he even contacted

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Speaker 2: the police while he was in prison for child sex

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Speaker 2: abuse in twenty eighteen. He contacts the police and he

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Speaker 2: asks to speak to a local detective and he tells him,

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Speaker 2: you know, I saw Tony Jones somewhere with a child

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Speaker 2: or you know, he tells them things that there's no

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Speaker 2: evidence of, but he's inserting himself into that insony, right.

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Speaker 1: He demands to speak to someone who's on the William

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Speaker 1: Tool strike force, and he knows people, so he knows

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Speaker 1: Tony Jones, who's another convicted pedophile and another person of

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Speaker 1: interest in the William Tool investigation. And again no evidence

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Speaker 1: that Tony was involved in what happened to William, but

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Speaker 1: the police are looking at him, and Frank knows Jeff Owen,

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Speaker 1: the tradesman who does work on the house where William

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Speaker 1: goes missing, and is on the phone to the house

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Speaker 1: that day. So there's this connection between Frank and the

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Speaker 1: house where William goes missing, but there's no evidence that

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Speaker 1: puts Frank at the house.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and yet as he goes through all the evidence

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Speaker 2: heard at the inquest, Frank just keeps popping up throughout

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Speaker 2: it in these strange ways, like.

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Speaker 1: He's like, well, then there's Ray Porter.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So Ray Porter is this guy who is really elderly.

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Speaker 1: He's in a care home and he's dying, and his

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Speaker 1: nurse gives evidence that Ray says before he dies that

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Speaker 1: he gave his mate a lift with a boy driving

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Speaker 1: north away from Kendall, further north in New South Wales.

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Speaker 1: And the nurse says, is that the boy is that

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Speaker 1: William Tyroll And apparently Ray says yes. And there's the

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Speaker 1: white car. So William's foster mother says there's a white

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Speaker 1: station wagon parked outside the house on the day that

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Speaker 1: William goes missing. Nobody else has seen it, but she

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Speaker 1: insists there was. Frank is seen driving a white station

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Speaker 1: wagon in Kendall on different days. So there's all of

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Speaker 1: these reasons to look at Frank and say, we should

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Speaker 1: probably talk to you, as in the police should talk

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Speaker 1: to him. And he's at the inquest. He's allowed to

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Speaker 1: be in the hearings, and he joins them from prison

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Speaker 1: where he's serving time for child sexual abuse. But he

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Speaker 1: calls in on a video link and he's allowed to

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Speaker 1: question witnesses.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and we established earlier in the series that he

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Speaker 2: in fact gets all the evidence from the inquest.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and this I was speaking to a former detective

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Speaker 1: about exactly this, just a couple of days ago and

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Speaker 1: telling him about what happened, and this detective was horrified

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Speaker 1: that the inquest had sent Frank well parts of, if

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Speaker 1: not the complete brief of evidence. While Frank is preparing

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Speaker 1: himself to give evidence at the inquest, so he knows

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Speaker 1: what everyone is saying. He's allowed to question witnesses who

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Speaker 1: are saying things about him, and everyone is waiting for

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Speaker 1: Frank to be called to answer questions at the inquest,

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Speaker 1: and then he doesn't. He's not questioned in person, he's

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Speaker 1: not questioned in private, and then the inquest stops and

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Speaker 1: we don't know why. So there's all these questions and

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Speaker 1: we still don't have answers. So we decided it was

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Speaker 1: time to drive back up to the Mid North Coast

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Speaker 1: and to try and find some.

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Speaker 2: Answers to those questions, or find out if the police

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Speaker 2: have tried to find some answers to those questions.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm danbox and from news dot com dot au.

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Speaker 1: This is Witness William Tyrell, episode twelve, The Bird Tree

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Speaker 1: and here we are. Where we are is a little

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Speaker 1: town called John's River. It's just off the Pacific Highway

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Speaker 1: on the Mid North coast of New South Wales, which

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Speaker 1: is where Frank moved back in the nineties, but then

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Speaker 1: he stayed for years. John's River is about a ten

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Speaker 1: maybe twelve minute drive from Kendall, where William Tyrell was

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Speaker 1: reported missing. And it's small. It's got one shop, one pub,

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Speaker 1: a service station. The trees overhang a few old cars,

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Speaker 1: some of them upon blocks or in pieces in the

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Speaker 1: front yards of the single story weatherboard houses. Just a

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Speaker 1: few hundred people live here. It's barely a town.

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Speaker 2: It's going to say, you said by driving in almost.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of a straggler houses on either side of

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Speaker 1: the road and looks like a Symbda days. But people

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Speaker 1: here knew Frank because he lived here, he worked here. Frankly,

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Speaker 1: in a place this big, you can't get away with not.

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Speaker 3: Knowing your neighbors.

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Speaker 1: So we're going to try talking to people and find

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Speaker 1: out anything we can about Frank Abbott. When I say

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Speaker 1: find out anything we can about Frank Abbott, I mean it.

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Speaker 1: Since the last episode of this series, Nina and I

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Speaker 1: have gone deep on Frank, looking at court files and

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Speaker 1: electoral roles. Hello, following the different branches of Frank's family,

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Speaker 1: where he's one of eleven brothers and sisters.

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Speaker 3: Hello, Drive around the back.

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Speaker 1: We've traced phone numbers and property records to see where

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Speaker 1: Frank's family lived over decades, from western Sydney north to Wooton,

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Speaker 1: a hilltop town surrounded by cattle farms and forests, and

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Speaker 1: further north to the city of Taree, which sits in

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Speaker 1: a loop in the wide Manning River, and here to

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Speaker 1: John's River.

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Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure there's somebody at home TVSA.

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Speaker 1: Then Heron's Creek, a tiny township built around a sawmill

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Speaker 1: and a rail line where the police searched after William

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Speaker 1: went missing.

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Speaker 3: Sorry to bother you, in turn of our Nowhere.

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Speaker 1: We followed Frank to Logan's Crossing, where he lived in

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Speaker 1: a caravan belonging to a man called Jeff Owen, a

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Speaker 1: tradesman who called the house where William was reported missing

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Speaker 1: on that morning. My name's Dan, This is Nina, and

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Speaker 1: north again into Queensland, where Frank's family are now scattered.

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Speaker 3: We've been trying to get in touch with it. Julie

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Speaker 3: Abbott Abbot.

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Speaker 1: We've read the death certificates of Frank's wife, Katrina, who

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Speaker 1: died in nineteen ninety one of liver failure, and of

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Speaker 1: Frank's two year old son Darren, who died in nineteen

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Speaker 1: eighty four and whose inquest file has been sealed, meaning

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Speaker 1: it cannot be made public. We've also seen Frank's parents'

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Speaker 1: marriage certificate, which showed they married at nineteen and lists

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Speaker 1: his dad's job as a laborer and his mum's as

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Speaker 1: domestic duties. And we've read the police witness statement and

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Speaker 1: the old court reports that say Frank's dad, Henry Abbott,

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Speaker 1: was a child abuser. We've gone through old TV, radio

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Speaker 1: and newspaper reports about Frank that show how he's been

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Speaker 1: in and out of prison. Over decades do.

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Speaker 3: You think Frank Abbot was involved in the disappearance?

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Speaker 1: That I cannot answer, including one time when he broke

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Speaker 1: out of prison, stole a car and drove across the

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Speaker 1: country to his sisters.

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Speaker 3: But do you think he's capable?

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Speaker 1: Well, he scares me. They're still scilling in that name's there,

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Speaker 1: so I really want to say. Over the decades, Frank's

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Speaker 1: done time for smaller crimes including drugs, breac and enters,

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Speaker 1: car thefts, and he's now doing time for big crimes,

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Speaker 1: specifically child sex abuse, including four counts of indecently assaulting

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Speaker 1: a child under sixteen and six counts of having sex

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Speaker 1: with a child under ten against three victims, two girls

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Speaker 1: and a boy, for which he's currently serving sixteen years

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Speaker 1: in Long Bay Prison in Sydney's East, where one of

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Speaker 1: our colleagues recently saw Frank Abbot sitting and laying out

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Speaker 1: the playing cards for a game of Solitaire. Among everything

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Speaker 1: we've learned about Frank Abbot are new details about the

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Speaker 1: circumstances of William's disappearance, including that Frank told one person

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Speaker 1: he'd never even been to the street where three year

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Speaker 1: old William was reported missing, but he told someone else.

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Speaker 1: He'd been among the hundreds of people who volunteered to

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Speaker 1: search that area in the days that followed. So we're

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Speaker 1: at the pub now where people have told us Frank

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Speaker 1: was living in a couple of white sheds out the

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Speaker 1: back of the property. I've just been speaking to the

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Speaker 1: guy who owns it and he said, he said, look,

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Speaker 1: Frank did rent some white sheds down here further on

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Speaker 1: the property. He said he didn't think Frank was living

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Speaker 1: in them, but he did bar Frank from the pub.

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Speaker 1: He said Frank stank and he was aggressive and he

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Speaker 1: just didn't want him in there. Frank denies having anything

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Speaker 1: to do with William Tyrell's disappearance. He's claimed to other

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Speaker 1: people that a bank withdrawal proves he was somewhere else

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Speaker 1: that morning. And we can't speak to Frank because he's

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Speaker 1: in prison, though we have written to him, and we've

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Speaker 1: spoken to his sister, Elaine Harding, who didn't want to

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Speaker 1: be recorded, but told us that Frank was innocent and

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Speaker 1: that he'd been willing to give evidence at the inquest

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Speaker 1: into William's disappearance, which is strange because everyone expected Frank

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Speaker 1: to be called to answer questions, including both William's biological

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Speaker 1: and foster parents. Only Frank never did so. He wasn't

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Speaker 1: called to give evidence in public and not in private,

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Speaker 1: and the coroner who's leading the inquest into William's disappearance

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Speaker 1: has ordered there be no publication of her decision. Why not?

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Speaker 1: We asked the Coroner's court to explain why Frank has

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Speaker 1: not given evidence. We were told an answer might take weeks,

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Speaker 1: as they are quote currently occupied with other work. We're

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Speaker 1: still waiting.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Dan's walking up to the house. It's coming in,

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Speaker 2: appearing at them through the curtains of us.

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Speaker 1: In this case, getting answers isn't easy, all right. So

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Speaker 1: that guy didn't want to be recorded.

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Speaker 2: And then we haven't talked about the woman that I

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Speaker 2: contacted through Facebook.

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Speaker 1: Right since the last episode of this series. The coroners

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Speaker 1: also confirmed there won't be any more evidence heard in public. Instead,

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Speaker 1: the coroner wants to see written submissions from the various lawyers,

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Speaker 1: which also won't be made public, and aunt ju for

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Speaker 1: months from now, meaning it will likely be months more

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Speaker 1: before the coroner publishes her findings.

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Speaker 2: I asked her how she knew Frank hmm.

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Speaker 1: The coroner has released a short statement saying it is

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Speaker 1: to be understood that the New South Wales Police Force's

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Speaker 1: investigation into the disappearance and suspected death of William Tyrrell

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Speaker 1: may continue.

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Speaker 2: Her reply was sorry, it's taken song to get back

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Speaker 2: to you. I wasn't sure I was ready to talk

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Speaker 2: about this. Frank sexually assaulted me as a teenager when

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Speaker 2: I was living in Tare.

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Speaker 1: We asked the New South Wales Director of Public Prosecutions

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Speaker 1: what's happening with a brief of evidence submitted by the

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Speaker 1: police seeking to charge William's foster mother, and she.

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Speaker 2: Said he was never charged for it. My parents knew

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Speaker 2: about it.

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Speaker 4: Hmm.

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Speaker 1: That brief of evidence was submitted almost two years ago

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Speaker 1: now and there's still been no decision as to whether

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Speaker 1: to actually charge her. The DPP did not respond to

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Speaker 1: our questions. So that was a call from a guy

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Speaker 1: called Patrick Tealing and we knocked on his house half

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Speaker 1: an hour ago and I left a message on his phone.

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Speaker 1: The police did charge William's foster mother and foster father

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Speaker 1: with assaulting and intimidating another child who wasn't William. He

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Speaker 1: was the guy who ran the store in John's River,

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Speaker 1: which is where Frank Abbott was living, and William's foster

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Speaker 1: parents were convicted. But in the months since the last

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Speaker 1: episode of this series, William's foster father has appealed his

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Speaker 1: conviction for intimidation and had it overturned. And the guy

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Speaker 1: from Taree's in the store delivering bread, and he pulls

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Speaker 1: Patrick aside and says, stay away from that guy. That's

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Speaker 1: Frank Abbot. And William's foster mothers also appealed her convictions,

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Speaker 1: and he's waiting on a decision. I know him from

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Speaker 1: Tari Warn your kids, don't let your kids go near him.

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Speaker 1: And when you put all of this together, what you've

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Speaker 1: got is that so far, neither the police nor the

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Speaker 1: coroner seem to have any real answers about what happened

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Speaker 1: to William. And so from then on, Patrick the storekeeper

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Speaker 1: is keeping an eye on Frank Abbot, and he doesn't

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Speaker 1: like what he sees, which is why Nina and I

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Speaker 1: have come here to the town of John's River to

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Speaker 1: ask questions. Bringing us back to Frank Abbot, he said,

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Speaker 1: over and again and again and again, he'd notice outside

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Speaker 1: the store Frank Abbot talking to women or women and

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Speaker 1: children and just getting too close. He said, he used

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Speaker 1: to at night. Sometimes he'd be awake and he'd see

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Speaker 1: Frank backing out of his property with his lights off,

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Speaker 1: getting down the road, and then the lights would turn on,

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Speaker 1: and he said Frank was out and he was stealing stuff.

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Speaker 1: And the local people would say in John's River, if

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Speaker 1: you're missing something, go and look at Frank's house. He says,

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Speaker 1: I'm just reading my notes. I made shorthand notes of

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Speaker 1: the conversation. He says, he's just one of those guys.

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Speaker 1: He didn't have any scruples, and he said he was

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Speaker 1: worried about him. And then Patrick said, of Frank, you

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Speaker 1: wouldn't feed him. He said, jail's too good for him. Wow,

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Speaker 1: So why did his old neighbors say jails too good

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Speaker 1: for Frank Abbott? What had he done? So we recording

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Speaker 1: this man used to live next door to Frank. He

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Speaker 1: doesn't want to be named. We're sitting on the front

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Speaker 1: porch of his home in John's River, the main road

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Speaker 1: behind us, and the bodies of old cars seemingly scattered,

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Speaker 1: almost half forgotten, in the surrounding forest.

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Speaker 3: Tell me about Frank, Well, we're not first viny. We

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Speaker 3: sort of got on for a while and then.

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Speaker 5: I heard stories about some girl in Sydney.

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Speaker 3: Did you hear those stories from him or from other people?

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Speaker 5: Now was in the paper too. He sort of kept

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Speaker 5: to himself, but me X missage used to get it

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Speaker 5: and do the garden. He used to look over the

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Speaker 5: fence and stuff.

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Speaker 3: So when she was out in the garden.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, when it was hard, she was in a bkinie

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Speaker 5: at the back, like we had a fence.

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Speaker 3: But they used to look over so you could see

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Speaker 3: him like peering over.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I record you.

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Speaker 3: What did you do?

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Speaker 5: I wasn't going to flog you, but I didn't because

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Speaker 5: he came.

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Speaker 3: Out with you. So you got into a blue with him.

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Speaker 3: I didn't fight, but you were.

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Speaker 1: And then he went back in and came out with

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Speaker 1: a machete. Yeah, and this is your next door neighbor.

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Speaker 1: How did you get on after that? Not really before

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Speaker 1: you kind of he pulled a machete on you.

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Speaker 3: Did you ever talk to him about anything at all?

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Speaker 3: Did you get on with him much?

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Speaker 5: I used to talk with him. He was all right.

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Speaker 3: Tell me about what he was like.

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Speaker 5: Oh, he was just he was pretty dirty.

297
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Speaker 6: It wasn't that plain. Yeah, and the house was pretty feral.

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Speaker 6: Had Chuck's living in it living. We used to go

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Speaker 6: to the tips and night and breaking the tip.

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Speaker 3: So he used to go and steal stuff and break

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Speaker 3: into the bag and tipt a hold the fence and

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Speaker 3: bring it back here. But none of you kids were

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Speaker 3: all out over there. Why not? Well, just the way

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Speaker 3: he walked, Just the stories, what stories that.

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Speaker 1: He was a bit of of As a police ever

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Speaker 1: spoken to you about the.

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Speaker 5: Degnies about Frank on the phone, I just same thing.

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Speaker 3: I'm telling you something. And then they never came back

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Speaker 3: after that.

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Speaker 7: Okay.

311
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Speaker 1: The police who spoke to Frank's old neighbor were detectives

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Speaker 1: from the Strike Force investigating the disappearance of William Tyrrel.

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Speaker 1: But they only called him, he says, they never visited

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Speaker 1: in person. Sitting on his front porch, I look next

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Speaker 1: door at Frank Abbott's old house. Someone new lives there

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Speaker 1: now since Frank moved out, And there were more cars

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Speaker 1: on the front lawn, a little boats, a tinney up

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Speaker 1: on a trailer, and what looks like a black stone

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Speaker 1: gargoyle of some kind of winged mythical creature beside the

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Speaker 1: screen door. I look over at all of that and

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Speaker 1: I think, all right, it's worth a visit.

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Speaker 3: Let's have another knock hed tat him.

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00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:09,720
Speaker 1: Before the screen doors shut, But the main door behind

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Speaker 1: it is open, and I can see it's dark inside

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Speaker 1: the house although it's late morning, almost midday. I'm pretty

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Speaker 1: sure we wake the owner up. I'm sorry to bother

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Speaker 1: you on the The man comes to the doorway, scratching

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Speaker 1: himself in shirtless, wearing only shorts, and he's big, muscular,

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Speaker 1: he's got tattoos across his body, but he's friendly.

330
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Speaker 3: How long did you know him for?

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Speaker 8: Not more?

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Speaker 3: As were more disposed.

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Speaker 1: The man invites us in.

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Speaker 3: How long you've been there?

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Speaker 1: He says he's lived here since twenty ten, four years

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Speaker 1: before William was reported missing. We sit down in a

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Speaker 1: lounge room dominated by a long black sofa and a big,

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Speaker 1: noisy fish tank. The man starts talking about how they

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Speaker 1: took over the house from Frank Abbott.

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Speaker 9: I think we've done about thirteen loads thirteen loads of

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Speaker 9: rubbish from the backyard. What kind of rubbish about everything?

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Speaker 9: A washing machines over in this corner, there was and

343
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Speaker 9: steal bathtubs over in that corner.

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Speaker 1: Scrap metal and bits things you could.

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Speaker 3: Sell maybe yeah, I don't know about selling them.

346
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Speaker 9: But yeah, and that's even now, like you go they

347
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Speaker 9: you could dig the dirt, Yeah, and you're still find

348
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Speaker 9: shot in.

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Speaker 3: The dirt like that was that thick? What was he

350
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Speaker 3: like in cider house?

351
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Speaker 9: Very dark and gloomy, Like the bathroom was basically rotted

352
00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:54,159
Speaker 9: out side of thing in the bathroom. Yeah, like you know,

353
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Speaker 9: the walls inside the floor, and it was very like old.

354
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Speaker 9: And it was one of these houses where he could have,

355
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Speaker 9: you know, it was fifty fifty you can push it

356
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Speaker 9: down and start building again, or he could start renovating.

357
00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:12,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, so we chose to renovated. And was it clean?

358
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Speaker 9: It was very old and dusty inside. And then stuff

359
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:23,359
Speaker 9: that was inside it was like he can say antique furniture,

360
00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:27,280
Speaker 9: but he got it from out the front of someone's

361
00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:30,240
Speaker 9: house or whatever, Like it wasn't proper you know.

362
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Speaker 3: Old furniture.

363
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Speaker 1: Yeah, so much antique is old and he'd been thrown away. Yeah,

364
00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:38,760
Speaker 1: tell me about Frank himself.

365
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Speaker 3: What was he like?

366
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Speaker 9: I told to him, and that like straight up, I

367
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:46,879
Speaker 9: just assumed to know an old boat, you know, a

368
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:52,760
Speaker 9: bit a bit funny in his ways. But then once

369
00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:56,080
Speaker 9: you've heard the stories and stuff, like from people around

370
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Speaker 9: town and even from his He's brother brother named Bluie.

371
00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:07,200
Speaker 9: That was his nickname. Blue Even he had nothing nice

372
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:10,320
Speaker 9: to say about him. What stories did you hear about Frank?

373
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:11,880
Speaker 3: Well, I heard about.

374
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Speaker 9: I don't know know who it was at the time,

375
00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:22,520
Speaker 9: but as young girls and young boys, something about he

376
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Speaker 9: took him out to the forest out here, just something

377
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:31,320
Speaker 9: here and but tied him up the trees. What. Yeah,

378
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:35,760
Speaker 9: tired him up the trees and did I can't I'm

379
00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:38,399
Speaker 9: not going to sit here and make up something that

380
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:40,560
Speaker 9: I don't know. I'm just saying tied him up the

381
00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:44,560
Speaker 9: trees and did something bad out there. Did you hear

382
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:53,560
Speaker 9: anything else? Yeah, Well, Frank was basically like creeked around

383
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:56,960
Speaker 9: any any girl. They would be onto him.

384
00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:01,360
Speaker 1: One story, this man tells us. We hear more than

385
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Speaker 1: once in John's River from other people who knew Frank.

386
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:10,240
Speaker 1: But I'm not going to repeat it, not because we

387
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:14,520
Speaker 1: don't think that story's true, but because we fear it

388
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:22,200
Speaker 1: might be and I don't want to identify the people involved.

389
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:28,439
Speaker 9: What I'm saying didn't really have any hate or anything

390
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:30,600
Speaker 9: towards him, because I've said, there are stories, you know,

391
00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:35,320
Speaker 9: and he's always wandering around town and making and he

392
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:38,240
Speaker 9: was going to get a lift to help out someone

393
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 9: or like cleaning or something for people.

394
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:46,360
Speaker 3: Anyway, that's as much as I knew him.

395
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:49,480
Speaker 9: They don't like And then he stopped in here and

396
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:52,920
Speaker 9: sub twice I said a couple of times more, and

397
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:57,159
Speaker 9: my dad's given him a lift, like see, you was

398
00:26:57,200 --> 00:26:59,760
Speaker 9: always hunting for a lift of the shops or something.

399
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:03,680
Speaker 9: So that's as much as we knew of him, right,

400
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:05,600
Speaker 9: you know, And just you give my lift.

401
00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:07,760
Speaker 3: Be nice, you know, don't.

402
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:12,960
Speaker 1: Be nice. Don't fuck with Frank Abbott and give him

403
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:16,120
Speaker 1: a lift if you see him. Soon after this mention

404
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:18,679
Speaker 1: of his dad giving Frank Abbot a lift, the man's

405
00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:21,200
Speaker 1: father walks into the lounge room behind us.

406
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:23,399
Speaker 3: Here's my dad, he.

407
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:25,320
Speaker 4: Say.

408
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:29,920
Speaker 1: I walk over and introduce myself.

409
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:34,000
Speaker 3: We're journalists.

410
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:41,280
Speaker 9: This is colleague of mine, a story and a news

411
00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 9: thing on Frank Abbott.

412
00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:45,720
Speaker 4: Oh thank you boy.

413
00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:48,240
Speaker 3: Yes, you sit down and have a chat in a.

414
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:54,560
Speaker 9: Minute, Serett, Because my dad knew him just as much

415
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:56,040
Speaker 9: as I did.

416
00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 1: So we swap over. The first man goes outside to

417
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:02,240
Speaker 1: the front yard of the house to smoke a cigarette,

418
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:05,199
Speaker 1: and we're left there sitting in the lounge room on

419
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:11,240
Speaker 1: the big black sofa talking to his father. You knew

420
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:14,440
Speaker 1: Frank Abbott for how long?

421
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:19,760
Speaker 4: Since we're moved up here two thousand and ten?

422
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:26,480
Speaker 1: How would you describe him?

423
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 4: Dirty? I've dragged the end to our bar once, and Frank.

424
00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:40,840
Speaker 3: The always by my bride. You offer him a lift.

425
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:45,200
Speaker 1: He says. He gave Frank a lift to Old Bar,

426
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:48,360
Speaker 1: which is another little town about a half hour drive

427
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:52,040
Speaker 1: south along the highway where the Manning River flows out

428
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:55,120
Speaker 1: between two long empty beaches to the ocean.

429
00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:58,680
Speaker 4: You had a job there to do with cut my

430
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:04,920
Speaker 4: woman's lawn. I dropped in that house and I said, Frank,

431
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:08,160
Speaker 4: how long? Because I wanted to have a little around

432
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 4: Old Bar as well myself. And he said, oh, a

433
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:15,600
Speaker 4: couple of hours. I said, well, if he's going to

434
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 4: be that long, i'll pick you up. Like so, I

435
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:23,480
Speaker 4: come back and picked him up, and I was a

436
00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:28,840
Speaker 4: standard what he said to me. He said, this woman's

437
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 4: got heaps of money in the house. And he didn't

438
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:40,160
Speaker 4: necessarily stay the words that he wanted to me to.

439
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:44,240
Speaker 3: Come in with him to rob her.

440
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:46,880
Speaker 4: A load of person.

441
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:54,080
Speaker 1: He is like everything of that him was shifting. There's

442
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 1: no proof Frank was thinking of robbing that woman, but

443
00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:01,640
Speaker 1: so far in John's River. I've heard so many different

444
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:08,120
Speaker 1: stories about Frank that this one doesn't surprise me. Did

445
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 1: you ever hear Frank say anything that he might have

446
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:19,680
Speaker 1: done worse than stealing? This time, the answer does surprise me.

447
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:25,040
Speaker 4: It's rather Bluey, a nice boat.

448
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 1: Frank's brother Jeffrey, whose nickname was Bluey because he had

449
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:35,280
Speaker 1: orange hair. Apparently it's an Australian thing. Go figure anyway,

450
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 1: Bluey he died in twenty twenty.

451
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:45,040
Speaker 4: Quite a few years back now, but he always said,

452
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:51,360
Speaker 4: when the stories are going on, were two all that he.

453
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:52,120
Speaker 3: Didn't do it.

454
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:53,520
Speaker 1: He didn't do it.

455
00:30:56,160 --> 00:31:01,520
Speaker 10: Right, pretty close to when he died. Bui, he said

456
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:08,080
Speaker 10: to my son, he said he did do it, he said,

457
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 10: and he is buried up on Big Bird.

458
00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, we're that big truths Big Bird. They've got a

459
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:27,280
Speaker 4: song on them. And yeah. I thought that was a

460
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:33,480
Speaker 4: turning around from Blue sating that because he wanted to

461
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:34,800
Speaker 4: like each father.

462
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:36,880
Speaker 9: He didn't.

463
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:39,640
Speaker 4: You could say it in your medi life.

464
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:45,520
Speaker 1: Wait stop, as the older man is saying this, I'm

465
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:50,200
Speaker 1: trying to process what we're hearing. So the story goes.

466
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:55,720
Speaker 1: Bluie was Frank's brother, and apparently Blue used to say

467
00:31:55,800 --> 00:32:02,280
Speaker 1: Frank was not involved in William Tootle's disappearance, except right

468
00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:06,640
Speaker 1: up just before he died, Bluie said to this man's son,

469
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:14,080
Speaker 1: Frank was involved. He did do and Williams buried up

470
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:16,160
Speaker 1: on Big Bird Mountain.

471
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:25,920
Speaker 4: Is buried upon Big Bird.

472
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:27,280
Speaker 1: Where there's some kind of big tree where.

473
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 4: There big trees Big Bird. They've got a song on there.

474
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:37,680
Speaker 1: Later we'll discover there's this big tree outside of John's

475
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:42,360
Speaker 1: River called the Bird Tree, which is this giant black

476
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:46,560
Speaker 1: butt tree. It's about seventy or so meters high and

477
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:50,560
Speaker 1: eleven meters around the trunk, and everyone who lives on

478
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 1: the Mid North Coast apparently knows this tree. Other members

479
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:57,520
Speaker 1: of Frank Abbot's family will tell us they used to

480
00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:01,400
Speaker 1: visit it as children. The Bird Tree stands on the

481
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:04,760
Speaker 1: slopes of Middle Brother, which is a mountain.

482
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:14,120
Speaker 4: Up on Big Bird.

483
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:18,240
Speaker 1: But where my brain starts to do loops is when

484
00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:21,680
Speaker 1: we learn that the Bird Tree is next to another

485
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:26,760
Speaker 1: giant black butt called Benaroon, which is the same name

486
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:30,920
Speaker 1: as the road where William Tyrell was reported missing, Benerun Drive.

487
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:35,120
Speaker 1: And when I google the Bird Tree, a state government

488
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:40,880
Speaker 1: website says you get there via Batar Creek Road. Which

489
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:45,880
Speaker 1: is the road leading to Benerun Drive. Most of that

490
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:50,080
Speaker 1: area is forest, a national park named after the Middle

491
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:53,920
Speaker 1: Brother Mountain. And we learn that the morning after William

492
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:58,400
Speaker 1: is reported missing, at nine to twenty two am, Frank

493
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:04,200
Speaker 1: Abbott's mobile phone pings off the Middle Brother cell tower,

494
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:08,920
Speaker 1: which is described in evidence before the inquest as covering

495
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:14,439
Speaker 1: the Kendall area. So the area around the town where

496
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:18,960
Speaker 1: William was reported missing, But that Kendal area, it's a

497
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:22,279
Speaker 1: huge chunk of land. Looking at a map, it must

498
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:28,480
Speaker 1: be dozens of square kilometers of mostly empty forest, farmland

499
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:33,600
Speaker 1: and dirt roads. So this mobile phone ping doesn't actually

500
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:39,480
Speaker 1: prove anything except that Frank is likely somewhere in that area.

501
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:44,840
Speaker 1: But right now, in this conversation with the old man

502
00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:48,560
Speaker 1: inside what used to be Frank Abbot's house in the

503
00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:53,160
Speaker 1: town of John's River, I'm thinking, why bring this up.

504
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:58,920
Speaker 1: We haven't even asked you about William. I'm also thinking

505
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:02,800
Speaker 1: none of this is evervidence. In court, a judge would

506
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:07,600
Speaker 1: dismiss it and call it hearsay. It's just a story

507
00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:12,160
Speaker 1: told by one person who says they heard it from another.

508
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:16,479
Speaker 1: It proves nothing, and I'm not suggesting it's true. Far

509
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:21,640
Speaker 1: from it. But sitting here listening to this man's say

510
00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:24,879
Speaker 1: what his son said that Bluey told him?

511
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:29,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, No, I thought that was a tune. Ahoy, I'm

512
00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:30,160
Speaker 4: from Blue.

513
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:34,879
Speaker 1: I'm thinking we really need to talk to your son.

514
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:42,960
Speaker 1: We might just go and ask your son about what

515
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:47,800
Speaker 1: you've just told us about BLUEI. The old man seems

516
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:50,799
Speaker 1: relaxed and jokes that we should remind his son to

517
00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:52,640
Speaker 1: mow the lawn while we're out there.

518
00:35:58,640 --> 00:35:59,719
Speaker 4: He's just waiting for the.

519
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:03,879
Speaker 1: So we bundle up our recording kit and head out

520
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:12,319
Speaker 1: of the house. When he says something, only I'm distracted

521
00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:15,440
Speaker 1: and miss it, and later, listening back, it's hard to

522
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:18,839
Speaker 1: hear because the microphone's bumping as we hurry out the

523
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:27,520
Speaker 1: front to where his son is smoking. He probably forgot

524
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:31,160
Speaker 1: about that, but I didn't forget about it.

525
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:34,920
Speaker 3: He chanted his version.

526
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:40,160
Speaker 1: His brother the way he changed his version with his

527
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:45,239
Speaker 1: brother meaning Frank and his brother Bluie.

528
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:47,920
Speaker 4: No one ever checked out.

529
00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:52,720
Speaker 3: He must have thought, what a few people that story?

530
00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:58,480
Speaker 1: No one ever checked that out, and he must have

531
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 1: told quite a few people all that story. But Blue

532
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:05,520
Speaker 1: he's dead, so he can't tell us if he really

533
00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:11,760
Speaker 1: said that. Later we asked Frank about this in writing

534
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:14,680
Speaker 1: in a letter we send to him in prison, but

535
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:15,799
Speaker 1: we haven't heard back.

536
00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:20,399
Speaker 3: God, he died. What do you remember when he died?

537
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:22,200
Speaker 4: Blue?

538
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, so the best thing we can do right now

539
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:31,359
Speaker 1: is go outside to the front of the house where

540
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:33,680
Speaker 1: the old man's son is smoking next to the front

541
00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:40,920
Speaker 1: porch and an unused lawnmower. All right, the dad's got

542
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:51,200
Speaker 1: a message for you.

543
00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:48,080
Speaker 3: To finish the lawn. Hey.

544
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:51,080
Speaker 1: There was one thing he said though, which I wanted

545
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:53,759
Speaker 1: to ask you about, and maybe it's just slipped your mind.

546
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:55,719
Speaker 3: He said about Blewis.

547
00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:59,120
Speaker 1: At this point, the wind outside the house starts blowing.

548
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:06,400
Speaker 1: I can see Nina frowning. The wind makes it hard

549
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:08,400
Speaker 1: to record what someone's saying.

550
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:11,920
Speaker 3: Do you.

551
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:17,200
Speaker 1: We go inside the house and crowd together in the kitchen.

552
00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:21,959
Speaker 1: There's a TV playing in the background. Your dad was

553
00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:25,800
Speaker 1: talking about Frank's brother, Blue, and he was also saying

554
00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:29,880
Speaker 1: that remember that little lad William Tyrrell and missing looking candle.

555
00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:34,759
Speaker 1: He said afterwards, Blue would always say Frank didn't do it,

556
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:37,239
Speaker 1: because it was in the news that Frank had been

557
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:38,600
Speaker 1: looked at by the inquest.

558
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:40,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, is that right, memory.

559
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:44,680
Speaker 9: I remember saying that he doesn't like he didn't believe

560
00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:47,319
Speaker 9: Frank had anything. But then at the same time he'd

561
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:49,400
Speaker 9: sit there and to so I would anything nice to

562
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:50,360
Speaker 9: say about anybody?

563
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:55,920
Speaker 1: And then your dad said that before Blue died, he

564
00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:58,320
Speaker 1: came to you and he may have said something different.

565
00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:04,720
Speaker 3: I can't remember that. I don't Blue.

566
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:08,839
Speaker 1: He didn't say anything about maybe Frank could have done it,

567
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:12,759
Speaker 1: not that I'm not that I remember that William may

568
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:13,440
Speaker 1: have been buried.

569
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:15,680
Speaker 3: Is it Big Bird Hill?

570
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:18,400
Speaker 9: Ah?

571
00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:24,759
Speaker 8: No, No, no, no, like him good Bluey was always

572
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:28,239
Speaker 8: like he was the only one that basically of his

573
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:32,440
Speaker 8: family that he didn't really have contact, but he used

574
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:34,560
Speaker 8: to hear the stuff that was going on because he

575
00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:39,719
Speaker 8: was the first family. And there's now a brother poluting Queensland.

576
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:43,200
Speaker 8: So if Blue used to hear the stories of what's

577
00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:46,560
Speaker 8: going on with Frank through his brother in Queensland. Yeah,

578
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 8: and it's just from them stories that Blue used to hear,

579
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:56,960
Speaker 8: Like he'd sometimes passed on to us like blueby transfer

580
00:39:57,040 --> 00:40:00,360
Speaker 8: and messages, not messages, but just talk us how happening,

581
00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:03,560
Speaker 8: for what's happening at court? Yeah he's getting charge of

582
00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:08,319
Speaker 8: this and stuff like that. But I know he did

583
00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:12,080
Speaker 8: say something. I didn't believe it. Frank was guilty, but

584
00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:17,040
Speaker 8: he also said that I think it's under the below

585
00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:20,399
Speaker 8: Frank made the child. I like, because what he's done

586
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:22,279
Speaker 8: in his past that sort of makes that for it.

587
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:25,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, so he deserved to be in jail because the

588
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:26,960
Speaker 1: things he'd done in his past.

589
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:30,600
Speaker 9: Yeah. Yeah, it's been a while, so I can't really

590
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:32,360
Speaker 9: Thanks for clearing that up for us.

591
00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:34,319
Speaker 3: We'll get at your hair.

592
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:42,960
Speaker 1: Nina and I walk out Frank's old house into the sun,

593
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:47,480
Speaker 1: thinking about this story of the bird tree. I'm convinced

594
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:52,920
Speaker 1: it's just that a story. And even if Bluie really

595
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:56,600
Speaker 1: said that, which I doubt, then who's to say it

596
00:40:56,760 --> 00:41:01,320
Speaker 1: wasn't Blue himself who was involved and trying to shift

597
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:05,640
Speaker 1: attention to Frank, his brother. We're get in our car

598
00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:10,080
Speaker 1: and drive off outside John's River on the highway. We

599
00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:12,880
Speaker 1: pass the turning with a road sign pointing to the

600
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:17,360
Speaker 1: bird tree, and we ignore it. We just keep on driving.

601
00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:31,799
Speaker 1: Then weeks later, Nina and I are back in John's River,

602
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:35,480
Speaker 1: still working on this podcast, and we pull up again

603
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:40,279
Speaker 1: outside Frank's old house. The older man is sitting outside

604
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:45,719
Speaker 1: on the front deck records. I walk up and he

605
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:51,440
Speaker 1: says hello. The conversation goes straight back to Frank Abbott

606
00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:53,040
Speaker 1: and his brother Bluey.

607
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:55,320
Speaker 4: These jaysus monder berea.

608
00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:58,320
Speaker 3: Who's that bridge brother blue?

609
00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:01,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, the old man and waves me over to a

610
00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:02,920
Speaker 1: metal gate beside the house.

611
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:08,359
Speaker 3: Boy's dog. That's Bluey's dog.

612
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:12,719
Speaker 1: Behind it is a big old dog that reminds me

613
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:16,440
Speaker 1: of a bloodhound. And the old man says, that was

614
00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:17,479
Speaker 1: Bluey's dog.

615
00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:22,120
Speaker 3: How did you end up with Bluey's dog? We've got

616
00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:23,840
Speaker 3: six dogs.

617
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:28,520
Speaker 4: Six dogs love dogs, love ven and wants to make it.

618
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:30,560
Speaker 3: So did you get Bluey's dog?

619
00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:34,480
Speaker 1: After blue he died. Day before he died.

620
00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:37,640
Speaker 4: He hit again and the tar at the hospital.

621
00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:43,279
Speaker 1: Right walking back to the front Verandah, the old man

622
00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:45,719
Speaker 1: sits at the table and I pull up a toolbox

623
00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:51,239
Speaker 1: to sit on with him. I realized his memory isn't perfect.

624
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:56,120
Speaker 1: He sometimes loses track of what he's saying. I lost,

625
00:42:57,800 --> 00:42:58,680
Speaker 1: He trails off.

626
00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:02,160
Speaker 4: I don't know what was I just saying, he said,

627
00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:02,520
Speaker 4: you went.

628
00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:06,760
Speaker 1: But on one thing, he's insistent.

629
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:13,520
Speaker 4: That's the words I heard by my son, what Bloy

630
00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:15,720
Speaker 4: told him.

631
00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:19,719
Speaker 10: Frank did do it, and he's buried up there on

632
00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:21,360
Speaker 10: bird somewhere.

633
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:24,840
Speaker 3: When you say big bird, I mean the bird tree.

634
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:26,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, that mountain.

635
00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:29,680
Speaker 4: Just yeah, if you go up the top of the

636
00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:32,960
Speaker 4: mountain and you look down on top of him, it's beautiful.

637
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:41,480
Speaker 4: And that's the words. And I couldn't get that because

638
00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:44,080
Speaker 4: they still has you still have family.

639
00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:50,280
Speaker 1: When your son came and told you about Bluie saying

640
00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:55,120
Speaker 1: that about Frank, did you think we should do something

641
00:43:55,120 --> 00:44:09,560
Speaker 1: with that? We should tell someone? Oh, he doesn't really answer.

642
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:12,440
Speaker 10: It's sounded like Bluie just give up.

643
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:18,799
Speaker 4: Defending him, or something like that. And that's that's what

644
00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:19,399
Speaker 4: I heard.

645
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:24,759
Speaker 1: We asked your son about if Bluie said that to him,

646
00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:26,120
Speaker 1: and he said he couldn't remember.

647
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:34,480
Speaker 4: He would have said it us, I remember like.

648
00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:38,360
Speaker 10: Tired, dipped or shadow?

649
00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:43,600
Speaker 1: May I remember tight lipped or shut your mouth, he

650
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:47,560
Speaker 1: tells us. Then the old man's son arrives, driving onto

651
00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:51,719
Speaker 1: the front lawn. He gets out, angry, shirtless again and

652
00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:55,880
Speaker 1: walks across the grass towards us, shouting saying he doesn't

653
00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:59,480
Speaker 1: want to talk about Frank Abbott and waving at us

654
00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:04,240
Speaker 1: to get a way and get out. So we get out.

655
00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:08,839
Speaker 1: We've been in John's River long enough. We reckon and

656
00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:14,160
Speaker 1: this time driving away again, we passed the sign for

657
00:45:14,239 --> 00:45:19,399
Speaker 1: the bird tree and keep driving. It's probably nothing. We'll

658
00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:23,759
Speaker 1: tell the police, but I'm thinking about something. The younger man,

659
00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:27,400
Speaker 1: the son, told us when we spoke to him the

660
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:31,840
Speaker 1: first time and asked him about whether Frank Abbott's brother

661
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Speaker 1: Bluie told him something about William Tyrrell, and his reply was,

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Speaker 1: I don't remember.

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Speaker 9: I know he did say something, right, I didn't believe

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Speaker 9: it Frank was guilty.

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Speaker 1: Blue didn't believe that Frank was guilty of anything to

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Speaker 1: do with William.

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Speaker 9: But he also said that eyeing is under the below

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Speaker 9: for Frank made the child. I like it's done in

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Speaker 9: his past. That sort of makes that for it.

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Speaker 1: But Bluie was under the belief Frank needed jail time

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Speaker 1: to make up for what Frank had done in his past,

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Speaker 1: which makes me ask the question, what did Frank do?

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Speaker 1: And that's when Nina and I start looking at the

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Speaker 1: young woman who disappeared and where Frank was found not guilty.

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Speaker 7: She was riding the pushbike I think it was, and

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Speaker 7: and he picked her up through them. I think he

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Speaker 7: had ut And what did he say he did with

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Speaker 7: the pushbike? I think he did that, But so he

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Speaker 7: picked her up with her bike, maybe put the bike

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Speaker 7: in the back of the yute apparently, and then did

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Speaker 7: he tell you what happened next? That's next time on

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Speaker 7: Witness William Tyrrell. A lot of different people have been

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Speaker 7: involved in making this series. Among them, the executive producer

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Speaker 7: is Nina Young. The sound design was by Tiffany Dimack.

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Speaker 7: The producers have been Emily Pigeon, Nicholas Adams, Jazzbar, Phoebe

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Speaker 7: Zakowski Wallace and Tabby Wilson. Research by Adan Patrick, original

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Speaker 7: music by Rory O'Connor. Our lawyer is Stephen Coombs. The

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Speaker 7: editor at news dot com dot au is Kerry Warren.

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Speaker 1: I'm Dan Box