WEBVTT - When Julie Goodwin's Mental Health Hit Rock Bottom 0:00:00.360 --> 0:00:04.560 This episode contains discussion of suicide. If this raises any 0:00:04.600 --> 0:00:07.480 issues for you, support is available through the links and 0:00:07.560 --> 0:00:15.040 phone numbers in the show notes. Oh, this is a 0:00:15.080 --> 0:00:19.200 beautiful episode. This is a heavy episode. But saying that 0:00:20.480 --> 0:00:27.240 Julie Goodwin, Oh oh, I mean, who doesn't love Julie Goodwin. 0:00:28.360 --> 0:00:30.880 I get to have her for a whole had her 0:00:30.960 --> 0:00:33.080 for a whole hour. You get her for a little 0:00:33.120 --> 0:00:37.519 bit less with me, you get the best bits, not 0:00:37.640 --> 0:00:40.479 the me forgetting what I was saying halfway through me 0:00:40.600 --> 0:00:44.199 saying it. Everyone knows Julie good when she graced our 0:00:44.240 --> 0:00:48.720 screens on Master Chef. She was the original OG of 0:00:48.960 --> 0:00:52.800 Master Chef two thousand and nine, fifteen years ago. She 0:00:52.880 --> 0:00:56.800 won Master Chef and we've loved her ever since. And 0:00:56.840 --> 0:00:59.080 she's never gone away. And I love that she's never 0:00:59.120 --> 0:01:01.800 gone away because they're people that you may never hear 0:01:01.840 --> 0:01:04.320 about again, and I'm really glad that she's one that 0:01:04.400 --> 0:01:09.640 stayed around. Her story, though, is hard, and it got 0:01:09.680 --> 0:01:15.160 harder as she started to get into her life post 0:01:15.600 --> 0:01:20.280 Master Chef. She went through a lot to get to 0:01:20.319 --> 0:01:22.840 where she is today. She's written a book. We talk 0:01:22.880 --> 0:01:26.039 about the book, we talk about Master Chef, We talk 0:01:26.080 --> 0:01:31.319 about her, we talk about me, of course. Please enjoy. 0:01:32.120 --> 0:01:35.160 If that's the word, I don't know, Please listen and 0:01:35.280 --> 0:01:37.600 let me know what you think about this episode. I 0:01:37.600 --> 0:01:39.520 always ask you to let me know about every episode. 0:01:39.560 --> 0:01:43.120 But here is my interview with Julie Goodman. You've got 0:01:43.160 --> 0:01:46.640 a book. Yeah, I'm so glad. I was just saying 0:01:46.720 --> 0:01:48.520 before we started recording that I'm glad it's not a 0:01:48.560 --> 0:01:53.280 cookbook because there's so many interesting stories about people behind cookbooks, 0:01:53.320 --> 0:01:55.480 and we often don't ever get to know about them. 0:01:55.800 --> 0:01:58.720 No, only the little stories that match the food. But 0:01:59.200 --> 0:02:01.480 in this book, I've I've got a few little recipes 0:02:01.480 --> 0:02:04.520 that match the stories. Yeah, sort of the other way 0:02:04.520 --> 0:02:05.000 around here. 0:02:05.000 --> 0:02:10.359 I like that. How are you going really, like right now, 0:02:10.480 --> 0:02:12.440 right today? Like are you doing well today? 0:02:12.680 --> 0:02:16.200 I am? I am. I've just had a loss. So 0:02:16.440 --> 0:02:19.760 I lost my little dog the night before last. So 0:02:21.440 --> 0:02:26.760 you know, honestly, I'm heartbroken. But I'm better able to 0:02:26.840 --> 0:02:28.919 deal with that than I would have been a couple 0:02:28.960 --> 0:02:29.560 of years ago. 0:02:30.160 --> 0:02:32.160 Yeah, I'm so sorry. That breaks my heart. 0:02:32.760 --> 0:02:35.440 It's devastating. You know, you you're a dog person. 0:02:36.040 --> 0:02:38.359 The pets are harder I find than. 0:02:38.560 --> 0:02:42.160 Well, they're in your life all day, every day, you know, 0:02:42.520 --> 0:02:45.960 and they loved you unconditionally. It doesn't matter what crappy 0:02:46.000 --> 0:02:48.760 stuff you've done. Your dog and still loves you. 0:02:48.880 --> 0:02:51.040 Best of all, they will come and watch you ship. 0:02:52.440 --> 0:02:55.240 They will good for you and be excited about it. 0:02:55.560 --> 0:02:58.880 Yeah, there is nothing. I mean, don't even get me started. 0:02:58.880 --> 0:03:00.919 I'm so sorry to hear. But did you have your 0:03:00.919 --> 0:03:02.720 puppy for a while, like, yeah, she. 0:03:02.919 --> 0:03:07.240 Was nearly thirteen? Great, yeah, good in us. Yeah she's 0:03:07.280 --> 0:03:08.960 got a first sister and a third brother who are 0:03:09.040 --> 0:03:12.440 kind of sad now, but yeah, we'll get through it. 0:03:12.480 --> 0:03:16.760 My beautiful grown sons and husband and the dogs, and 0:03:16.760 --> 0:03:18.920 we were all together when that happened. 0:03:19.000 --> 0:03:21.440 So oh good. So you were home and got to 0:03:21.440 --> 0:03:24.240 say goodbye. And yes, I think that's really important. Oh 0:03:25.720 --> 0:03:29.560 for humans as well, Yes, you know, to be able 0:03:29.600 --> 0:03:32.240 to say goodbye. And it breaks my heart when people 0:03:32.280 --> 0:03:35.000 lose someone that they've just never got to Yeah, you know, 0:03:35.040 --> 0:03:36.640 like heart attacks and things like that. 0:03:36.520 --> 0:03:39.560 Exactly really hard. I'm doing well. I've got a lot 0:03:39.560 --> 0:03:42.560 of strategies and things in place to keep my mental 0:03:42.560 --> 0:03:44.320 health on an even keel. It's not to say it 0:03:44.360 --> 0:03:47.440 always is, but it's a lot better than it was. 0:03:47.800 --> 0:03:49.760 So as long as I keep doing the things, yes, 0:03:50.400 --> 0:03:51.120 things are okay. 0:03:51.360 --> 0:03:54.320 And that's what they say with mental health and mental 0:03:54.560 --> 0:03:58.360 illness issues is it's all about keeping the tools going, 0:03:58.680 --> 0:04:02.080 having for the right things in your toolbox, and using 0:04:02.120 --> 0:04:04.720 them like you're actually using them. I have my own 0:04:04.760 --> 0:04:07.240 mental health issues, which I think everyone does, do. 0:04:07.400 --> 0:04:11.800 They to one degree or another? And yeah, to one 0:04:11.800 --> 0:04:15.080 degree or another. We all experience stuff and we've got 0:04:15.120 --> 0:04:17.560 to find our way through it. But you know what, 0:04:17.600 --> 0:04:20.440 I would say that there are times where you might 0:04:20.480 --> 0:04:22.719 have tools in your toolbox, but you just can't access thems. 0:04:23.320 --> 0:04:26.919 So it's one of those things where it's kind of 0:04:26.960 --> 0:04:29.000 unhelpful if someone's in the midst of a crisis, to 0:04:29.040 --> 0:04:29.640 say them. 0:04:29.520 --> 0:04:30.799 Oh, just go for a walk. 0:04:30.920 --> 0:04:35.640 It's not helpful because sometimes you just can't. And so, 0:04:35.880 --> 0:04:38.160 you know, it can be a really slow path back 0:04:38.200 --> 0:04:41.600 to health. And once you're back to health, the path 0:04:41.680 --> 0:04:45.280 isn't straight and it doesn't finish. It's a rocky road 0:04:45.320 --> 0:04:46.960 and you've got to just keep plugging away. 0:04:47.120 --> 0:04:49.400 And sometimes you don't even want to go to the tools, 0:04:49.440 --> 0:04:52.120 Like I leave my tool at the door sometimes and 0:04:52.279 --> 0:04:55.400 it gets really dusty and stays there for too long. 0:04:55.400 --> 0:04:59.599 But last time I went without therapy, and then the 0:04:59.640 --> 0:05:01.839 next I saw a therapist. She said, why are you 0:05:01.920 --> 0:05:06.920 here and I said, well, basically, my tools are rusted 0:05:07.520 --> 0:05:10.320 and I don't and most of them aren't working anymore. 0:05:10.400 --> 0:05:13.160 I need to sharpen my tools, get my tool belt 0:05:13.200 --> 0:05:15.320 going again, actually get it out of the shed. And 0:05:15.320 --> 0:05:17.160 she's like, oh, that's a really good way of kind 0:05:17.160 --> 0:05:19.080 of you know, talking about it. And I said, I 0:05:19.200 --> 0:05:21.400 just couldn't be bothered lifting it up for a while 0:05:21.440 --> 0:05:24.720 and thinking I just don't want to deal with this 0:05:24.839 --> 0:05:29.440 right now, because you know, mental health, you have to 0:05:29.520 --> 0:05:32.520 keep it healthy, and like anything in the world, you 0:05:32.760 --> 0:05:36.000 just let it go sometimes and it gets. 0:05:35.720 --> 0:05:38.159 Out of it can get out of here at hand 0:05:39.160 --> 0:05:40.120 and people. 0:05:40.120 --> 0:05:42.560 You know that whole Are you okay? I really love 0:05:42.600 --> 0:05:45.520 that that kind of thing has come in because it 0:05:45.560 --> 0:05:49.760 does prompt you to say yes or no. I'm a 0:05:49.880 --> 0:05:53.280 huge one for yeah, I'm fine, I'm fine, no matter what. 0:05:53.520 --> 0:05:56.520 I just do not like to burden people, which I 0:05:56.560 --> 0:06:01.000 think women. Do you think that, Well, I'm not mad, 0:06:01.080 --> 0:06:03.600 of course, but women have a they've got to take 0:06:03.640 --> 0:06:04.560 care of everyone else. 0:06:04.640 --> 0:06:07.360 That's one hundred percent true. And you know, we talk 0:06:07.400 --> 0:06:11.480 about are you Okada. We talk about corporate responsibility around 0:06:11.480 --> 0:06:13.960 mental health and all of those things, and so talking 0:06:13.960 --> 0:06:16.240 about mental health is not new, and we're doing a 0:06:16.279 --> 0:06:18.560 lot better than we did. Certainly while I was growing 0:06:18.640 --> 0:06:21.719 up it was to boot, but now we're talking about it. 0:06:21.760 --> 0:06:25.760 But what I actually still think needs to happen is okay. 0:06:25.920 --> 0:06:28.440 So we're all willing to help, We're willing to look 0:06:28.480 --> 0:06:31.960 for the signs in others, We're willing to accommodate whatever 0:06:32.000 --> 0:06:36.000 we need to accommodate for others, but still carry these 0:06:36.080 --> 0:06:39.240 internalized messages that I can't speak up or I'll be 0:06:39.279 --> 0:06:43.560 seen as incapable, i will let someone down, I will 0:06:43.600 --> 0:06:48.599 be being ungrateful, or I'll be aren't weak, all of 0:06:48.640 --> 0:06:51.640 those things, and that's the internal stuff. So I think 0:06:51.680 --> 0:06:55.360 the conversation needs to obviously keep flowing, but I think 0:06:55.360 --> 0:06:58.520 it needs to turn a little inward to ourselves and say, 0:06:59.600 --> 0:07:02.960 I am willing to give help. Am I willing to 0:07:03.040 --> 0:07:06.159 accept it? Am I willing to examine the bits of 0:07:06.160 --> 0:07:07.839 my life that aren't working for me and say, you 0:07:07.880 --> 0:07:10.360 know what, I've got to hand some of this over. Yeah, 0:07:10.480 --> 0:07:13.600 that's where I think we really need to push this conversation. 0:07:13.680 --> 0:07:15.960 And as you say for women. I mean, I've raised 0:07:15.960 --> 0:07:18.920 three young men, and I'm married to a man, and 0:07:19.040 --> 0:07:22.160 they have their own things that they don't want to 0:07:22.160 --> 0:07:24.840 acknowledge or talk about. You know, there's a whole lot 0:07:24.880 --> 0:07:27.000 of you know, we can go stereotypical if you like, 0:07:27.040 --> 0:07:28.480 but there's a whole lot of stuff that men don't 0:07:28.480 --> 0:07:30.960 want to bring to the table either, And so I 0:07:31.080 --> 0:07:35.080 just think it's as important as being willing to reach 0:07:35.120 --> 0:07:38.480 out to somebody else, it's as important or more important 0:07:38.840 --> 0:07:41.680 to be willing to show compassion to yourself. 0:07:42.040 --> 0:07:45.120 I often say go gently to myself. It was something 0:07:45.160 --> 0:07:47.200 I learned to say, go gently, come on, like cause 0:07:47.240 --> 0:07:51.480 you know those voices, especially as young girls, teenage girls, 0:07:51.480 --> 0:07:53.760 we just we get taught pretty much to hate ourselves 0:07:53.840 --> 0:07:56.200 and say how ugly we are, and that's where a 0:07:56.240 --> 0:07:59.600 lot of our issues can come from. Go gently. 0:08:00.000 --> 0:08:00.160 Think. 0:08:00.200 --> 0:08:04.960 Another one that I find is being able to say 0:08:05.000 --> 0:08:07.600 to the people that ask are you okay? I'm still 0:08:07.640 --> 0:08:11.600 not yeah, because often with any illness, like you know, 0:08:11.640 --> 0:08:13.760 a cold or something, are you doing better today? Oh? 0:08:13.920 --> 0:08:17.679 Much better today? You know, everyone expects you to get better. 0:08:19.480 --> 0:08:20.520 Like it's a linear thing. 0:08:20.680 --> 0:08:23.000 It's like a linear thing, and it's not. It's just 0:08:23.040 --> 0:08:26.800 not it's you have to become comfortable with saying to 0:08:27.080 --> 0:08:30.120 your loved ones. Yes. Still, you know, it's still a 0:08:30.200 --> 0:08:32.559 work in progress, like that's what we're I. 0:08:32.520 --> 0:08:35.280 Am, That's exactly what it is. And I can tell 0:08:35.320 --> 0:08:37.520 you that I still find that frustrating. But I'm not 0:08:37.559 --> 0:08:40.800 at the finish line. There is no finish line. And 0:08:41.160 --> 0:08:43.520 I think that if we can find language around that 0:08:43.520 --> 0:08:45.679 that's unthreatening to the people asking, because you don't want 0:08:45.679 --> 0:08:48.040 to shut down the conversation. That's right by them going 0:08:48.080 --> 0:08:49.760 oh god, I don't want to ask because every time 0:08:49.880 --> 0:08:53.240 I know yes, and it doesn't have to be who 0:08:53.280 --> 0:08:55.320 you are all the time. We've got to acknowledge that 0:08:55.360 --> 0:08:59.480 we can be different things, you know. So my beautiful psychologist, 0:09:01.000 --> 0:09:02.400 who I write about in the book quite a lot 0:09:02.400 --> 0:09:05.560 because she's a legend. I love her. I was only 0:09:05.559 --> 0:09:07.720 with her before I started this book to and I'd 0:09:07.760 --> 0:09:11.120 had a couple of very flat days, you know, and 0:09:11.400 --> 0:09:13.440 you know those ones where you've got to arrange your 0:09:13.440 --> 0:09:16.040 face into the right expression before you can leave the house, 0:09:16.160 --> 0:09:19.040 and it's a real effort, you know, everything feels like 0:09:19.200 --> 0:09:22.960 you're wearing wet wool. And I just I went to 0:09:22.960 --> 0:09:27.120 see her, and I said, I'm pissed off for a start, 0:09:27.200 --> 0:09:31.760 because I'm doing all the things and I'm diligent. And secondly, 0:09:31.760 --> 0:09:34.480 I'm a little bit frightened because does this mean that 0:09:34.520 --> 0:09:36.600 my medication is not going to work for me anymore? 0:09:36.640 --> 0:09:39.120 I've been through a few different ones and some stopped abruptly, 0:09:39.200 --> 0:09:42.640 and it was terrifying when it stopped. Does this mean 0:09:42.679 --> 0:09:45.480 I'm on this spiral back downhill? What does it mean? 0:09:45.520 --> 0:09:46.080 What does it mean? 0:09:46.720 --> 0:09:49.800 I'm cranky and I'm scared and why do I feel 0:09:49.840 --> 0:09:52.880 this way? And what she said to me was, sometimes 0:09:52.880 --> 0:09:58.200 it's appropriate to feel depression. Sometimes it's appropriate to feel sadness. 0:09:58.280 --> 0:10:01.240 Sometimes it's appropriate to be stress. And if you look 0:10:01.280 --> 0:10:02.760 at what you're about to head out in the world 0:10:02.760 --> 0:10:06.000 and do, that's appropriate for you right now. But what 0:10:06.040 --> 0:10:09.280 we need to do is view it as a hotel. 0:10:10.000 --> 0:10:13.480 She said, You've checked into this hotel, but you know 0:10:13.520 --> 0:10:15.199 that you're going to check out and come back home. 0:10:15.559 --> 0:10:18.400 You don't have to live in the hotel. So now, 0:10:18.640 --> 0:10:20.520 if I'm having a day like that, it's just like, well, 0:10:20.559 --> 0:10:22.600 I'm just checking into the sad hotel and I'll eat 0:10:22.600 --> 0:10:25.000 the shitty food and I'll sleep on the shitty bed, 0:10:25.080 --> 0:10:27.200 and I'll have the shell with not enough hot water 0:10:27.280 --> 0:10:29.719 or water pressure. And then I'll check out and I'll 0:10:29.760 --> 0:10:31.880 go home, and I'll go home to love, and I'll 0:10:31.880 --> 0:10:34.640 go home to creativity, and I'll go home to joy 0:10:34.720 --> 0:10:37.480 and to my granddaughter and to my dogs who I love. 0:10:38.080 --> 0:10:41.280 And that has been so helpful to me. 0:10:41.559 --> 0:10:43.760 Oh, I love this woman and I love. 0:10:43.559 --> 0:10:46.040 This And that's language we can all use. If someone 0:10:46.040 --> 0:10:49.959 says that you okay, instead of feeling like you're always 0:10:49.960 --> 0:10:53.040 in the doldrooms or you've got a lie, you can 0:10:53.080 --> 0:10:56.440 say I've checked into the sad hotel today, but check 0:10:56.480 --> 0:10:58.480 with me again tomorrow because I might be home. 0:10:58.640 --> 0:11:02.719 Yes, I love that. I say poopool the pool. I'm 0:11:02.720 --> 0:11:05.640 sitting in the poop pool today. Sometimes I slap the 0:11:05.640 --> 0:11:08.200 shit all over me. Yeah. Yeah, sometimes I just get 0:11:08.240 --> 0:11:09.880 down a little bit and get out of it again. 0:11:10.200 --> 0:11:13.400 But yeah, I love the sad hotel. That will work 0:11:13.480 --> 0:11:18.560 really well. Thank you for that, And thank your therapist. 0:11:18.720 --> 0:11:19.800 She sounds amazing. 0:11:19.880 --> 0:11:23.040 She is amazing. She's walking through some stuff. 0:11:23.240 --> 0:11:25.920 Yes, God is so good at what they do when 0:11:25.960 --> 0:11:27.720 they're good, they're so good. 0:11:28.559 --> 0:11:32.880 Where'd you grow up in Nomins? So Northwest Sydney. 0:11:33.200 --> 0:11:35.960 Nice. They've got lovely parks out there for dogs. 0:11:37.000 --> 0:11:39.040 There you go every only thing you need to know. 0:11:39.360 --> 0:11:42.880 Everything for me doesn't have a good dog park. And 0:11:43.040 --> 0:11:45.320 you live on the Central Coast, which is where I'm from, 0:11:46.360 --> 0:11:47.559 where my produce is from. 0:11:47.640 --> 0:11:49.720 Yes, she went to school with my son. 0:11:50.040 --> 0:11:52.280 Is that right? You never told me that. 0:11:52.760 --> 0:11:53.840 It's such a small world. 0:11:53.880 --> 0:11:56.080 It's such a small world. She went to school with 0:11:56.280 --> 0:11:59.400 John Farnham's niece as well. Well, there you go. Yeah, 0:12:00.120 --> 0:12:01.080 such a small world. 0:12:01.120 --> 0:12:02.640 I mean I would have lead with that if I was. 0:12:03.360 --> 0:12:05.400 She only told me recently, and I'm like, yeah, you 0:12:05.440 --> 0:12:07.400 could have told me that two years ago, because I'm 0:12:07.400 --> 0:12:10.640 a job fun Oh Stan, who isn't Yeah, who isn't? 0:12:11.679 --> 0:12:13.199 So writing the book? I want to talk to you 0:12:13.200 --> 0:12:16.120 about writing the book. How hard was that because it's 0:12:16.160 --> 0:12:17.000 an emotional book. 0:12:17.120 --> 0:12:19.679 Yeah, it was brutal. Yeah, it was brutal. 0:12:19.840 --> 0:12:22.640 And now you're doing a book tour bringing it up again, 0:12:23.360 --> 0:12:27.600 so obviously it was harder to write. And did you 0:12:27.720 --> 0:12:31.760 have moments where you just threw hands in there so 0:12:31.840 --> 0:12:32.439 I can't do this? 0:12:32.520 --> 0:12:36.120 Oh? Absolutely. The whole process sort of went in cycles. 0:12:36.280 --> 0:12:39.839 So because it's hard, some of it's hard. Some of 0:12:39.880 --> 0:12:42.560 it's fun and funny and lighthearted and all of that 0:12:42.600 --> 0:12:45.920 stuff too, But for the hard bits, I had to 0:12:46.600 --> 0:12:48.920 bunker down. I couldn't just knock out half an hour 0:12:49.040 --> 0:12:50.960 before I cooked dinner or anything like that. I had 0:12:51.000 --> 0:12:52.920 to sort of bunk it down for days at a 0:12:52.960 --> 0:12:56.079 time and then stop for weeks and just let all 0:12:56.120 --> 0:12:58.840 of that process over there and get back to my 0:12:58.880 --> 0:13:00.960 life and not think about it, and then I could 0:13:01.040 --> 0:13:03.320 go back to it again. And there were a lot 0:13:03.360 --> 0:13:05.360 of hard conversations that I had to have with people 0:13:05.360 --> 0:13:05.680 I love. 0:13:05.800 --> 0:13:08.760 Yeah, yeah, can how does that go? How do you 0:13:08.880 --> 0:13:13.320 broach someone that you say, I'm about to write about you? 0:13:14.480 --> 0:13:20.880 Yeah. It's particularly my parents, So there was stuff they 0:13:20.920 --> 0:13:23.560 didn't know that I had to break to them. And 0:13:23.679 --> 0:13:27.080 also I had to sort of gently say to them, 0:13:27.480 --> 0:13:31.160 these things weren't very well dealt with. The stuff that 0:13:31.200 --> 0:13:33.600 they did know, these things weren't very well dealt with. 0:13:34.080 --> 0:13:38.960 And it's generational, it's family. And with all the love 0:13:38.960 --> 0:13:41.120 in my heart, I said to them, I don't hold 0:13:41.200 --> 0:13:44.559 any blame because you were the product of. 0:13:44.520 --> 0:13:46.400 Your upbringing doing the best you could. 0:13:46.559 --> 0:13:49.680 And my name was the product of her upbringing, and 0:13:49.720 --> 0:13:51.960 she lived through the war and the depression, and then 0:13:52.080 --> 0:13:55.640 she raised these kids and so all that that stoic 0:13:56.400 --> 0:13:59.720 We don't talk about feeling bad. You know, you get 0:13:59.760 --> 0:14:02.720 up and your soldier on and there's always someone worse 0:14:02.760 --> 0:14:04.680 off than you, you know, which is. 0:14:06.200 --> 0:14:06.920 It's true. 0:14:07.000 --> 0:14:09.640 Of course it's true. And you've got to be grateful. 0:14:09.920 --> 0:14:11.880 You've got to be grateful, and you've got to count 0:14:11.920 --> 0:14:15.600 your blessings and put things in perspective, obviously, but you 0:14:15.720 --> 0:14:20.120 also have to be able to say all that aside, I'm. 0:14:20.000 --> 0:14:21.360 Hurting, I'm not doing well. 0:14:21.480 --> 0:14:23.840 Yes, I need a hand. I was just saying. 0:14:23.520 --> 0:14:27.280 Too in one of my solo epps that my mum, 0:14:27.320 --> 0:14:29.920 God bless her. She was. She did the best she could. 0:14:30.400 --> 0:14:33.360 But when it got really bad she would say, sometimes, 0:14:33.840 --> 0:14:36.280 you know, maybe we should go to the cancer ward 0:14:36.320 --> 0:14:38.680 and let you see, you know, kids who really got 0:14:38.840 --> 0:14:40.840 She thought she was doing the right thing. 0:14:41.360 --> 0:14:44.760 Well, it's the kids starving in Africa. You don't finish 0:14:44.760 --> 0:14:46.320 your dinner, you know, and it just. 0:14:46.800 --> 0:14:50.680 It wasn't no. And just to have my parents say, 0:14:51.320 --> 0:14:54.080 I remember having the really hard conversation with my dad, 0:14:54.120 --> 0:14:58.680 who was a really bad dad, really violent and awful, 0:14:58.680 --> 0:15:01.960 abuse her and have having that adult conversation with him. 0:15:02.960 --> 0:15:05.480 All I asked him to do was to keep his 0:15:05.560 --> 0:15:08.840 distance and to let me speak. That was all the 0:15:09.200 --> 0:15:12.320 like the caveats that I have for And that conversation 0:15:12.880 --> 0:15:15.280 went for three and a half hours of me just 0:15:15.360 --> 0:15:17.720 talking because I couldn't get my words. I couldn't stop, 0:15:17.800 --> 0:15:19.600 you know, all of that thing. But the one thing 0:15:20.040 --> 0:15:22.160 I said to him, all I really wish that you 0:15:22.200 --> 0:15:25.120 had done. And I'm saying this to you but also 0:15:25.200 --> 0:15:29.200 to my listeners because this is the best parenting advice. 0:15:29.320 --> 0:15:31.480 I'm not a parent, but I'm a child. Yes to 0:15:31.880 --> 0:15:34.360 a parent. Best advice I can give, and I gave 0:15:34.400 --> 0:15:38.280 it to my dad was sometimes I just wanted to 0:15:38.320 --> 0:15:40.960 sit on your lap and you say, I don't know 0:15:41.000 --> 0:15:44.440 what to do, but I love you, and that's all 0:15:44.440 --> 0:15:46.960 I wanted, not to be told, well, you know what 0:15:46.960 --> 0:15:50.760 you've done wrong? Yeah, yeah, you know what. They always 0:15:50.800 --> 0:15:55.200 play their advocates, and knowing where fathers and mothers come 0:15:55.240 --> 0:15:58.560 from a very you know, he's also intergenerational. It's also 0:15:58.880 --> 0:16:02.240 you know, gendered that whole men have got to give 0:16:02.280 --> 0:16:05.200 you a solution, whereas mothers are more in tune to 0:16:05.280 --> 0:16:07.480 that more nurturing. Let's have a hug, do you want 0:16:07.520 --> 0:16:09.240 to make you some food? You know, I don't know 0:16:09.280 --> 0:16:11.000 what to do. Should we go to the cancer warter? 0:16:12.400 --> 0:16:14.960 Oh my god, I laugh too hard at that, didn't 0:16:15.000 --> 0:16:15.600 I that? 0:16:16.600 --> 0:16:17.040 Wow? 0:16:17.200 --> 0:16:19.480 The solutions they have. But you know what I've got 0:16:19.480 --> 0:16:22.480 to say is that my parents and my mum's eighty 0:16:22.560 --> 0:16:26.640 next year, right, So they were so beautiful about it. 0:16:27.000 --> 0:16:29.560 I was stunned, and I thought, gosh, I think I've 0:16:29.600 --> 0:16:32.280 been underestimating you. I was so frightened to have this 0:16:32.320 --> 0:16:35.480 conversation because you know, we don't air our dirty laundry. 0:16:35.560 --> 0:16:39.320 We don't talk about these deeply personal things, these ugly things. 0:16:39.360 --> 0:16:43.520 You know, we're grateful, we pick ourselves up. So for 0:16:43.560 --> 0:16:47.320 me to go to them and say this, I need 0:16:47.360 --> 0:16:49.360 to put this stuff in this book. I need to 0:16:49.400 --> 0:16:51.600 write about it because otherwise it's not a truthful book 0:16:51.640 --> 0:16:54.440 and there's no point writing it at all. And they 0:16:54.560 --> 0:16:57.480 just said, you do whatever you need to do and 0:16:57.520 --> 0:16:58.240 we'll support you. 0:16:58.400 --> 0:16:59.440 Isn't that wonderful? 0:16:59.640 --> 0:17:02.560 And they and they said sorry to me many times, 0:17:02.560 --> 0:17:05.480 and I'm like, I actually don't need that from you, 0:17:05.560 --> 0:17:08.639 because you did what you could with what you had. 0:17:09.240 --> 0:17:10.800 And they said, we should have dealt with it. Better. 0:17:10.840 --> 0:17:13.600 But back then there wasn't better. There weren't resources, we 0:17:13.600 --> 0:17:14.800 weren't talking like this. 0:17:15.119 --> 0:17:19.000 You know, how wonderful that they gave you sympathy. You know, 0:17:19.040 --> 0:17:21.080 they didn't need to, but they had it to give 0:17:21.280 --> 0:17:23.240 and it's never too late to give it, and you 0:17:23.359 --> 0:17:26.320 got it. And they really wish that things had been different. 0:17:27.000 --> 0:17:28.919 That's for your heartbreaks for them. 0:17:28.920 --> 0:17:32.680 Doesn't totally because what my mum and dad fall into 0:17:33.640 --> 0:17:35.640 the category of what I call when you know better, 0:17:35.680 --> 0:17:37.800 you do better. You know, there are some people who 0:17:37.800 --> 0:17:41.240 will stand by some of the shitty things they did 0:17:41.400 --> 0:17:45.639 or thought or said back in the day, double down, well, 0:17:45.720 --> 0:17:48.119 you know, never hurt me good clip upside the Oh 0:17:48.400 --> 0:17:52.360 you know I didn't it didn't it really? But then 0:17:52.400 --> 0:17:54.440 there's those who when you know better, you do better. 0:17:54.520 --> 0:17:58.159 And that's across all of life, about our attitudes to 0:17:58.240 --> 0:18:00.880 certain kinds of people and all of that stuff. When 0:18:00.920 --> 0:18:03.480 you know better, you do better. Smart people do that, 0:18:03.560 --> 0:18:07.119 Compassionate people do that. You know, I think small minded, 0:18:08.160 --> 0:18:12.080 dim people don't fear for people, people people, People who 0:18:12.119 --> 0:18:16.280 live narrow from black. Yes, they don't do better because 0:18:16.359 --> 0:18:19.240 they just double down on their crappy opinions and their 0:18:19.280 --> 0:18:22.719 crappy behaviors and never and they stand by their pride, 0:18:22.720 --> 0:18:25.320 their ego, if you will, like they don't remove that 0:18:25.440 --> 0:18:28.680 ego to swallow their pride and say maybe I was wrong. 0:18:29.520 --> 0:18:31.960 And that's my father had a lot of that, like 0:18:32.040 --> 0:18:35.600 a lot of that problem. I've never had kids for 0:18:35.640 --> 0:18:38.119 an array of reasons, but one of them was because 0:18:38.200 --> 0:18:42.199 I was really frightened i'd have my father's temper that 0:18:42.320 --> 0:18:44.320 he had with us, and I was so frightened to 0:18:44.359 --> 0:18:48.479 do that to children. But my brother did, and I 0:18:48.560 --> 0:18:52.280 remember him saying, I changed it, like I changed it. 0:18:52.320 --> 0:18:55.440 The kids didn't get hit because when you know better, 0:18:55.640 --> 0:18:57.920 you do better. That's right, And it's there's two ways 0:18:57.920 --> 0:19:01.320 that can go, is exactly to follow the steps or 0:19:01.359 --> 0:19:03.840 you turn it right on its head. And it's funny 0:19:03.840 --> 0:19:06.200 the ones who double down, they see themselves as the 0:19:06.280 --> 0:19:08.760 victims still like, well, I don't know any better. I 0:19:08.760 --> 0:19:10.679 didn't know any better, and you know, you should have 0:19:10.680 --> 0:19:13.520 seen the ship that happened to me. Okay, it was like, well, 0:19:13.560 --> 0:19:14.280 clearly you're not. 0:19:14.680 --> 0:19:18.840 You could know better now if you would. 0:19:19.080 --> 0:19:21.199 And that's why I'm so glad we have things in 0:19:21.240 --> 0:19:25.040 place for kids with parents, because you know, the things 0:19:25.080 --> 0:19:26.800 that parents could get away with. 0:19:27.760 --> 0:19:29.800 Back in the day and it was all perfectly normal. 0:19:29.880 --> 0:19:32.840 Yeah, and not just your parents, your mate's parents could 0:19:32.880 --> 0:19:35.480 hit you as well. My parents could, your teachers could 0:19:35.560 --> 0:19:37.800 hit you everyone. 0:19:38.200 --> 0:19:38.800 Fair game. 0:19:39.000 --> 0:19:41.040 I am watching how mad I just could hit you 0:19:41.040 --> 0:19:45.800 with a with a cane daily. Remember when mad Men 0:19:45.880 --> 0:19:49.560 first came out, I remember there was I only watched 0:19:49.560 --> 0:19:51.080 the first season and then I was just like, no, 0:19:51.200 --> 0:19:52.640 this isn't for me. But it was such a great 0:19:52.640 --> 0:19:57.040 show anyway. But because it's said in the fifties of marketing, 0:19:57.080 --> 0:19:59.280 so lots but there was lots of you know, you'd 0:19:59.280 --> 0:20:01.640 go to they There was one scene where they all 0:20:01.680 --> 0:20:03.560 went to someone's house for a party. So all the 0:20:03.640 --> 0:20:06.080