1 00:00:00,360 --> 00:00:04,560 Speaker 1: This episode contains discussion of suicide. If this raises any 2 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:07,480 Speaker 1: issues for you, support is available through the links and 3 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:15,040 Speaker 1: phone numbers in the show notes. Oh, this is a 4 00:00:15,080 --> 00:00:19,200 Speaker 1: beautiful episode. This is a heavy episode. But saying that 5 00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:27,240 Speaker 1: Julie Goodwin, Oh oh, I mean, who doesn't love Julie Goodwin. 6 00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 1: I get to have her for a whole had her 7 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:33,080 Speaker 1: for a whole hour. You get her for a little 8 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:37,519 Speaker 1: bit less with me, you get the best bits, not 9 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:40,479 Speaker 1: the me forgetting what I was saying halfway through me 10 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:44,199 Speaker 1: saying it. Everyone knows Julie good when she graced our 11 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:48,720 Speaker 1: screens on Master Chef. She was the original OG of 12 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:52,800 Speaker 1: Master Chef two thousand and nine, fifteen years ago. She 13 00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:56,800 Speaker 1: won Master Chef and we've loved her ever since. And 14 00:00:56,840 --> 00:00:59,080 Speaker 1: she's never gone away. And I love that she's never 15 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:01,800 Speaker 1: gone away because they're people that you may never hear 16 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:04,320 Speaker 1: about again, and I'm really glad that she's one that 17 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:09,640 Speaker 1: stayed around. Her story, though, is hard, and it got 18 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:15,160 Speaker 1: harder as she started to get into her life post 19 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:20,280 Speaker 1: Master Chef. She went through a lot to get to 20 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:22,840 Speaker 1: where she is today. She's written a book. We talk 21 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:26,039 Speaker 1: about the book, we talk about Master Chef, We talk 22 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:31,319 Speaker 1: about her, we talk about me, of course. Please enjoy. 23 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 1: If that's the word, I don't know, Please listen and 24 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 1: let me know what you think about this episode. I 25 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:39,520 Speaker 1: always ask you to let me know about every episode. 26 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:43,120 Speaker 1: But here is my interview with Julie Goodman. You've got 27 00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:46,640 Speaker 1: a book. Yeah, I'm so glad. I was just saying 28 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:48,520 Speaker 1: before we started recording that I'm glad it's not a 29 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 1: cookbook because there's so many interesting stories about people behind cookbooks, 30 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:55,480 Speaker 1: and we often don't ever get to know about them. 31 00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:58,720 Speaker 2: No, only the little stories that match the food. But 32 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:01,480 Speaker 2: in this book, I've I've got a few little recipes 33 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:04,520 Speaker 2: that match the stories. Yeah, sort of the other way 34 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:05,000 Speaker 2: around here. 35 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:10,359 Speaker 1: I like that. How are you going really, like right now, 36 00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:12,440 Speaker 1: right today? Like are you doing well today? 37 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:16,200 Speaker 2: I am? I am. I've just had a loss. So 38 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:19,760 Speaker 2: I lost my little dog the night before last. So 39 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:26,760 Speaker 2: you know, honestly, I'm heartbroken. But I'm better able to 40 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:28,919 Speaker 2: deal with that than I would have been a couple 41 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:29,560 Speaker 2: of years ago. 42 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:32,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm so sorry. That breaks my heart. 43 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:35,440 Speaker 2: It's devastating. You know, you you're a dog person. 44 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:38,359 Speaker 1: The pets are harder I find than. 45 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:42,160 Speaker 2: Well, they're in your life all day, every day, you know, 46 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:45,960 Speaker 2: and they loved you unconditionally. It doesn't matter what crappy 47 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:48,760 Speaker 2: stuff you've done. Your dog and still loves you. 48 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:51,040 Speaker 1: Best of all, they will come and watch you ship. 49 00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:55,240 Speaker 2: They will good for you and be excited about it. 50 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:58,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, there is nothing. I mean, don't even get me started. 51 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:00,919 Speaker 1: I'm so sorry to hear. But did you have your 52 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 1: puppy for a while, like, yeah, she. 53 00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:07,240 Speaker 2: Was nearly thirteen? Great, yeah, good in us. Yeah she's 54 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:08,960 Speaker 2: got a first sister and a third brother who are 55 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 2: kind of sad now, but yeah, we'll get through it. 56 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:16,760 Speaker 2: My beautiful grown sons and husband and the dogs, and 57 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:18,920 Speaker 2: we were all together when that happened. 58 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:21,440 Speaker 1: So oh good. So you were home and got to 59 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:24,240 Speaker 1: say goodbye. And yes, I think that's really important. Oh 60 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:29,560 Speaker 1: for humans as well, Yes, you know, to be able 61 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:32,240 Speaker 1: to say goodbye. And it breaks my heart when people 62 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:35,000 Speaker 1: lose someone that they've just never got to Yeah, you know, 63 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 1: like heart attacks and things like that. 64 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:39,560 Speaker 2: Exactly really hard. I'm doing well. I've got a lot 65 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 2: of strategies and things in place to keep my mental 66 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:44,320 Speaker 2: health on an even keel. It's not to say it 67 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:47,440 Speaker 2: always is, but it's a lot better than it was. 68 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:49,760 Speaker 2: So as long as I keep doing the things, yes, 69 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 2: things are okay. 70 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:54,320 Speaker 1: And that's what they say with mental health and mental 71 00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:58,360 Speaker 1: illness issues is it's all about keeping the tools going, 72 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 1: having for the right things in your toolbox, and using 73 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:04,720 Speaker 1: them like you're actually using them. I have my own 74 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:07,240 Speaker 1: mental health issues, which I think everyone does, do. 75 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:11,800 Speaker 2: They to one degree or another? And yeah, to one 76 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:15,080 Speaker 2: degree or another. We all experience stuff and we've got 77 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:17,560 Speaker 2: to find our way through it. But you know what, 78 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 2: I would say that there are times where you might 79 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:22,719 Speaker 2: have tools in your toolbox, but you just can't access thems. 80 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:26,919 Speaker 2: So it's one of those things where it's kind of 81 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 2: unhelpful if someone's in the midst of a crisis, to 82 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 2: say them. 83 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:30,799 Speaker 1: Oh, just go for a walk. 84 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:35,640 Speaker 2: It's not helpful because sometimes you just can't. And so, 85 00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:38,160 Speaker 2: you know, it can be a really slow path back 86 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:41,600 Speaker 2: to health. And once you're back to health, the path 87 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:45,280 Speaker 2: isn't straight and it doesn't finish. It's a rocky road 88 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:46,960 Speaker 2: and you've got to just keep plugging away. 89 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:49,400 Speaker 1: And sometimes you don't even want to go to the tools, 90 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:52,120 Speaker 1: Like I leave my tool at the door sometimes and 91 00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:55,400 Speaker 1: it gets really dusty and stays there for too long. 92 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:59,599 Speaker 1: But last time I went without therapy, and then the 93 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:01,839 Speaker 1: next I saw a therapist. She said, why are you 94 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:06,920 Speaker 1: here and I said, well, basically, my tools are rusted 95 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:10,320 Speaker 1: and I don't and most of them aren't working anymore. 96 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:13,160 Speaker 1: I need to sharpen my tools, get my tool belt 97 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:15,320 Speaker 1: going again, actually get it out of the shed. And 98 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:17,160 Speaker 1: she's like, oh, that's a really good way of kind 99 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:19,080 Speaker 1: of you know, talking about it. And I said, I 100 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 1: just couldn't be bothered lifting it up for a while 101 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:24,720 Speaker 1: and thinking I just don't want to deal with this 102 00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:29,440 Speaker 1: right now, because you know, mental health, you have to 103 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:32,520 Speaker 1: keep it healthy, and like anything in the world, you 104 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:36,000 Speaker 1: just let it go sometimes and it gets. 105 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:38,159 Speaker 2: Out of it can get out of here at hand 106 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:40,120 Speaker 2: and people. 107 00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:42,560 Speaker 1: You know that whole Are you okay? I really love 108 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:45,520 Speaker 1: that that kind of thing has come in because it 109 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:49,760 Speaker 1: does prompt you to say yes or no. I'm a 110 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:53,280 Speaker 1: huge one for yeah, I'm fine, I'm fine, no matter what. 111 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:56,520 Speaker 1: I just do not like to burden people, which I 112 00:05:56,560 --> 00:06:01,000 Speaker 1: think women. Do you think that, Well, I'm not mad, 113 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:03,600 Speaker 1: of course, but women have a they've got to take 114 00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:04,560 Speaker 1: care of everyone else. 115 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:07,360 Speaker 2: That's one hundred percent true. And you know, we talk 116 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:11,480 Speaker 2: about are you Okada. We talk about corporate responsibility around 117 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 2: mental health and all of those things, and so talking 118 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:16,240 Speaker 2: about mental health is not new, and we're doing a 119 00:06:16,279 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 2: lot better than we did. Certainly while I was growing 120 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:21,719 Speaker 2: up it was to boot, but now we're talking about it. 121 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 2: But what I actually still think needs to happen is okay. 122 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 2: So we're all willing to help, We're willing to look 123 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:31,960 Speaker 2: for the signs in others, We're willing to accommodate whatever 124 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:36,000 Speaker 2: we need to accommodate for others, but still carry these 125 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:39,240 Speaker 2: internalized messages that I can't speak up or I'll be 126 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:43,560 Speaker 2: seen as incapable, i will let someone down, I will 127 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:48,599 Speaker 2: be being ungrateful, or I'll be aren't weak, all of 128 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:51,640 Speaker 2: those things, and that's the internal stuff. So I think 129 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:55,360 Speaker 2: the conversation needs to obviously keep flowing, but I think 130 00:06:55,360 --> 00:06:58,520 Speaker 2: it needs to turn a little inward to ourselves and say, 131 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 2: I am willing to give help. Am I willing to 132 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:06,159 Speaker 2: accept it? Am I willing to examine the bits of 133 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:07,839 Speaker 2: my life that aren't working for me and say, you 134 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:10,360 Speaker 2: know what, I've got to hand some of this over. Yeah, 135 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:13,600 Speaker 2: that's where I think we really need to push this conversation. 136 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:15,960 Speaker 2: And as you say for women. I mean, I've raised 137 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:18,920 Speaker 2: three young men, and I'm married to a man, and 138 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:22,160 Speaker 2: they have their own things that they don't want to 139 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:24,840 Speaker 2: acknowledge or talk about. You know, there's a whole lot 140 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:27,000 Speaker 2: of you know, we can go stereotypical if you like, 141 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:28,480 Speaker 2: but there's a whole lot of stuff that men don't 142 00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:30,960 Speaker 2: want to bring to the table either, And so I 143 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 2: just think it's as important as being willing to reach 144 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:38,480 Speaker 2: out to somebody else, it's as important or more important 145 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:41,680 Speaker 2: to be willing to show compassion to yourself. 146 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:45,120 Speaker 1: I often say go gently to myself. It was something 147 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:47,200 Speaker 1: I learned to say, go gently, come on, like cause 148 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:51,480 Speaker 1: you know those voices, especially as young girls, teenage girls, 149 00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:53,760 Speaker 1: we just we get taught pretty much to hate ourselves 150 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:56,200 Speaker 1: and say how ugly we are, and that's where a 151 00:07:56,240 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 1: lot of our issues can come from. Go gently. 152 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:00,160 Speaker 2: Think. 153 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:04,960 Speaker 1: Another one that I find is being able to say 154 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:07,600 Speaker 1: to the people that ask are you okay? I'm still 155 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:11,600 Speaker 1: not yeah, because often with any illness, like you know, 156 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:13,760 Speaker 1: a cold or something, are you doing better today? Oh? 157 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:17,679 Speaker 1: Much better today? You know, everyone expects you to get better. 158 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 2: Like it's a linear thing. 159 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 1: It's like a linear thing, and it's not. It's just 160 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:26,800 Speaker 1: not it's you have to become comfortable with saying to 161 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:30,120 Speaker 1: your loved ones. Yes. Still, you know, it's still a 162 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:32,559 Speaker 1: work in progress, like that's what we're I. 163 00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:35,280 Speaker 2: Am, That's exactly what it is. And I can tell 164 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:37,520 Speaker 2: you that I still find that frustrating. But I'm not 165 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:40,800 Speaker 2: at the finish line. There is no finish line. And 166 00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:43,520 Speaker 2: I think that if we can find language around that 167 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:45,679 Speaker 2: that's unthreatening to the people asking, because you don't want 168 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:48,040 Speaker 2: to shut down the conversation. That's right by them going 169 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:49,760 Speaker 2: oh god, I don't want to ask because every time 170 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:53,240 Speaker 2: I know yes, and it doesn't have to be who 171 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:55,320 Speaker 2: you are all the time. We've got to acknowledge that 172 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:59,480 Speaker 2: we can be different things, you know. So my beautiful psychologist, 173 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:02,400 Speaker 2: who I write about in the book quite a lot 174 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:05,560 Speaker 2: because she's a legend. I love her. I was only 175 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:07,720 Speaker 2: with her before I started this book to and I'd 176 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:11,120 Speaker 2: had a couple of very flat days, you know, and 177 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:13,440 Speaker 2: you know those ones where you've got to arrange your 178 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:16,040 Speaker 2: face into the right expression before you can leave the house, 179 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:19,040 Speaker 2: and it's a real effort, you know, everything feels like 180 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:22,960 Speaker 2: you're wearing wet wool. And I just I went to 181 00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:27,120 Speaker 2: see her, and I said, I'm pissed off for a start, 182 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:31,760 Speaker 2: because I'm doing all the things and I'm diligent. And secondly, 183 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 2: I'm a little bit frightened because does this mean that 184 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:36,600 Speaker 2: my medication is not going to work for me anymore? 185 00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:39,120 Speaker 2: I've been through a few different ones and some stopped abruptly, 186 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 2: and it was terrifying when it stopped. Does this mean 187 00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:45,480 Speaker 2: I'm on this spiral back downhill? What does it mean? 188 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:46,080 Speaker 1: What does it mean? 189 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 2: I'm cranky and I'm scared and why do I feel 190 00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:52,880 Speaker 2: this way? And what she said to me was, sometimes 191 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:58,200 Speaker 2: it's appropriate to feel depression. Sometimes it's appropriate to feel sadness. 192 00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:01,240 Speaker 2: Sometimes it's appropriate to be stress. And if you look 193 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:02,760 Speaker 2: at what you're about to head out in the world 194 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:06,000 Speaker 2: and do, that's appropriate for you right now. But what 195 00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 2: we need to do is view it as a hotel. 196 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:13,480 Speaker 2: She said, You've checked into this hotel, but you know 197 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:15,199 Speaker 2: that you're going to check out and come back home. 198 00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:18,400 Speaker 2: You don't have to live in the hotel. So now, 199 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:20,520 Speaker 2: if I'm having a day like that, it's just like, well, 200 00:10:20,559 --> 00:10:22,600 Speaker 2: I'm just checking into the sad hotel and I'll eat 201 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:25,000 Speaker 2: the shitty food and I'll sleep on the shitty bed, 202 00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:27,200 Speaker 2: and I'll have the shell with not enough hot water 203 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:29,719 Speaker 2: or water pressure. And then I'll check out and I'll 204 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:31,880 Speaker 2: go home, and I'll go home to love, and I'll 205 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:34,640 Speaker 2: go home to creativity, and I'll go home to joy 206 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:37,480 Speaker 2: and to my granddaughter and to my dogs who I love. 207 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:41,280 Speaker 2: And that has been so helpful to me. 208 00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:43,760 Speaker 1: Oh, I love this woman and I love. 209 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 2: This And that's language we can all use. If someone 210 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:49,959 Speaker 2: says that you okay, instead of feeling like you're always 211 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:53,040 Speaker 2: in the doldrooms or you've got a lie, you can 212 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:56,440 Speaker 2: say I've checked into the sad hotel today, but check 213 00:10:56,480 --> 00:10:58,480 Speaker 2: with me again tomorrow because I might be home. 214 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:02,719 Speaker 1: Yes, I love that. I say poopool the pool. I'm 215 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:05,640 Speaker 1: sitting in the poop pool today. Sometimes I slap the 216 00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:08,200 Speaker 1: shit all over me. Yeah. Yeah, sometimes I just get 217 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:09,880 Speaker 1: down a little bit and get out of it again. 218 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:13,400 Speaker 1: But yeah, I love the sad hotel. That will work 219 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:18,560 Speaker 1: really well. Thank you for that, And thank your therapist. 220 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:19,800 Speaker 1: She sounds amazing. 221 00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:23,040 Speaker 2: She is amazing. She's walking through some stuff. 222 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:25,920 Speaker 1: Yes, God is so good at what they do when 223 00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:27,720 Speaker 1: they're good, they're so good. 224 00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:32,880 Speaker 2: Where'd you grow up in Nomins? So Northwest Sydney. 225 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:35,960 Speaker 1: Nice. They've got lovely parks out there for dogs. 226 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:39,040 Speaker 2: There you go every only thing you need to know. 227 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:42,880 Speaker 1: Everything for me doesn't have a good dog park. And 228 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:45,320 Speaker 1: you live on the Central Coast, which is where I'm from, 229 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:47,559 Speaker 1: where my produce is from. 230 00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:49,720 Speaker 2: Yes, she went to school with my son. 231 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:52,280 Speaker 1: Is that right? You never told me that. 232 00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:53,840 Speaker 2: It's such a small world. 233 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:56,080 Speaker 1: It's such a small world. She went to school with 234 00:11:56,280 --> 00:11:59,400 Speaker 1: John Farnham's niece as well. Well, there you go. Yeah, 235 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:01,080 Speaker 1: such a small world. 236 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:02,640 Speaker 2: I mean I would have lead with that if I was. 237 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:05,400 Speaker 1: She only told me recently, and I'm like, yeah, you 238 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:07,400 Speaker 1: could have told me that two years ago, because I'm 239 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:10,640 Speaker 1: a job fun Oh Stan, who isn't Yeah, who isn't? 240 00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:13,199 Speaker 1: So writing the book? I want to talk to you 241 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:16,120 Speaker 1: about writing the book. How hard was that because it's 242 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:17,000 Speaker 1: an emotional book. 243 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:19,679 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was brutal. Yeah, it was brutal. 244 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 1: And now you're doing a book tour bringing it up again, 245 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:27,600 Speaker 1: so obviously it was harder to write. And did you 246 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:31,760 Speaker 1: have moments where you just threw hands in there so 247 00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:32,439 Speaker 1: I can't do this? 248 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:36,120 Speaker 2: Oh? Absolutely. The whole process sort of went in cycles. 249 00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:39,839 Speaker 2: So because it's hard, some of it's hard. Some of 250 00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:42,560 Speaker 2: it's fun and funny and lighthearted and all of that 251 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:45,920 Speaker 2: stuff too, But for the hard bits, I had to 252 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:48,920 Speaker 2: bunker down. I couldn't just knock out half an hour 253 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:50,960 Speaker 2: before I cooked dinner or anything like that. I had 254 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:52,920 Speaker 2: to sort of bunk it down for days at a 255 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:56,079 Speaker 2: time and then stop for weeks and just let all 256 00:12:56,120 --> 00:12:58,840 Speaker 2: of that process over there and get back to my 257 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:00,960 Speaker 2: life and not think about it, and then I could 258 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:03,320 Speaker 2: go back to it again. And there were a lot 259 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:05,360 Speaker 2: of hard conversations that I had to have with people 260 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:05,680 Speaker 2: I love. 261 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:08,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, can how does that go? How do you 262 00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:13,320 Speaker 1: broach someone that you say, I'm about to write about you? 263 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:20,880 Speaker 2: Yeah. It's particularly my parents, So there was stuff they 264 00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:23,560 Speaker 2: didn't know that I had to break to them. And 265 00:13:23,679 --> 00:13:27,080 Speaker 2: also I had to sort of gently say to them, 266 00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 2: these things weren't very well dealt with. The stuff that 267 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:33,600 Speaker 2: they did know, these things weren't very well dealt with. 268 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:38,960 Speaker 2: And it's generational, it's family. And with all the love 269 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:41,120 Speaker 2: in my heart, I said to them, I don't hold 270 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:44,559 Speaker 2: any blame because you were the product of. 271 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:46,400 Speaker 1: Your upbringing doing the best you could. 272 00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:49,680 Speaker 2: And my name was the product of her upbringing, and 273 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:51,960 Speaker 2: she lived through the war and the depression, and then 274 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:55,640 Speaker 2: she raised these kids and so all that that stoic 275 00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:59,720 Speaker 2: We don't talk about feeling bad. You know, you get 276 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:02,720 Speaker 2: up and your soldier on and there's always someone worse 277 00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:04,680 Speaker 2: off than you, you know, which is. 278 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:06,920 Speaker 1: It's true. 279 00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:09,640 Speaker 2: Of course it's true. And you've got to be grateful. 280 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:11,880 Speaker 2: You've got to be grateful, and you've got to count 281 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:15,600 Speaker 2: your blessings and put things in perspective, obviously, but you 282 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:20,120 Speaker 2: also have to be able to say all that aside, I'm. 283 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:21,360 Speaker 1: Hurting, I'm not doing well. 284 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:23,840 Speaker 2: Yes, I need a hand. I was just saying. 285 00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:27,280 Speaker 1: Too in one of my solo epps that my mum, 286 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:29,920 Speaker 1: God bless her. She was. She did the best she could. 287 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:33,360 Speaker 1: But when it got really bad she would say, sometimes, 288 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:36,280 Speaker 1: you know, maybe we should go to the cancer ward 289 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:38,680 Speaker 1: and let you see, you know, kids who really got 290 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:40,840 Speaker 1: She thought she was doing the right thing. 291 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:44,760 Speaker 2: Well, it's the kids starving in Africa. You don't finish 292 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:46,320 Speaker 2: your dinner, you know, and it just. 293 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:50,680 Speaker 1: It wasn't no. And just to have my parents say, 294 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:54,080 Speaker 1: I remember having the really hard conversation with my dad, 295 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:58,680 Speaker 1: who was a really bad dad, really violent and awful, 296 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:01,960 Speaker 1: abuse her and have having that adult conversation with him. 297 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:05,480 Speaker 1: All I asked him to do was to keep his 298 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 1: distance and to let me speak. That was all the 299 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:12,320 Speaker 1: like the caveats that I have for And that conversation 300 00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:15,280 Speaker 1: went for three and a half hours of me just 301 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:17,720 Speaker 1: talking because I couldn't get my words. I couldn't stop, 302 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 1: you know, all of that thing. But the one thing 303 00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:22,160 Speaker 1: I said to him, all I really wish that you 304 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:25,120 Speaker 1: had done. And I'm saying this to you but also 305 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:29,200 Speaker 1: to my listeners because this is the best parenting advice. 306 00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:31,480 Speaker 1: I'm not a parent, but I'm a child. Yes to 307 00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:34,360 Speaker 1: a parent. Best advice I can give, and I gave 308 00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:38,280 Speaker 1: it to my dad was sometimes I just wanted to 309 00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:40,960 Speaker 1: sit on your lap and you say, I don't know 310 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:44,440 Speaker 1: what to do, but I love you, and that's all 311 00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 1: I wanted, not to be told, well, you know what 312 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:50,760 Speaker 1: you've done wrong? Yeah, yeah, you know what. They always 313 00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:55,200 Speaker 1: play their advocates, and knowing where fathers and mothers come 314 00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:58,560 Speaker 1: from a very you know, he's also intergenerational. It's also 315 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:02,240 Speaker 1: you know, gendered that whole men have got to give 316 00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:05,200 Speaker 1: you a solution, whereas mothers are more in tune to 317 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:07,480 Speaker 1: that more nurturing. Let's have a hug, do you want 318 00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:09,240 Speaker 1: to make you some food? You know, I don't know 319 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 1: what to do. Should we go to the cancer warter? 320 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:14,960 Speaker 2: Oh my god, I laugh too hard at that, didn't 321 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:15,600 Speaker 2: I that? 322 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:17,040 Speaker 1: Wow? 323 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 2: The solutions they have. But you know what I've got 324 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:22,480 Speaker 2: to say is that my parents and my mum's eighty 325 00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:26,640 Speaker 2: next year, right, So they were so beautiful about it. 326 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:29,560 Speaker 2: I was stunned, and I thought, gosh, I think I've 327 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:32,280 Speaker 2: been underestimating you. I was so frightened to have this 328 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:35,480 Speaker 2: conversation because you know, we don't air our dirty laundry. 329 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:39,320 Speaker 2: We don't talk about these deeply personal things, these ugly things. 330 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:43,520 Speaker 2: You know, we're grateful, we pick ourselves up. So for 331 00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:47,320 Speaker 2: me to go to them and say this, I need 332 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:49,360 Speaker 2: to put this stuff in this book. I need to 333 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:51,600 Speaker 2: write about it because otherwise it's not a truthful book 334 00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:54,440 Speaker 2: and there's no point writing it at all. And they 335 00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:57,480 Speaker 2: just said, you do whatever you need to do and 336 00:16:57,520 --> 00:16:58,240 Speaker 2: we'll support you. 337 00:16:58,400 --> 00:16:59,440 Speaker 1: Isn't that wonderful? 338 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:02,560 Speaker 2: And they and they said sorry to me many times, 339 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:05,480 Speaker 2: and I'm like, I actually don't need that from you, 340 00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:08,639 Speaker 2: because you did what you could with what you had. 341 00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:10,800 Speaker 2: And they said, we should have dealt with it. Better. 342 00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:13,600 Speaker 2: But back then there wasn't better. There weren't resources, we 343 00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:14,800 Speaker 2: weren't talking like this. 344 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:19,000 Speaker 1: You know, how wonderful that they gave you sympathy. You know, 345 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:21,080 Speaker 1: they didn't need to, but they had it to give 346 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:23,240 Speaker 1: and it's never too late to give it, and you 347 00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:26,320 Speaker 1: got it. And they really wish that things had been different. 348 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:28,919 Speaker 1: That's for your heartbreaks for them. 349 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:32,680 Speaker 2: Doesn't totally because what my mum and dad fall into 350 00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:35,640 Speaker 2: the category of what I call when you know better, 351 00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:37,800 Speaker 2: you do better. You know, there are some people who 352 00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:41,240 Speaker 2: will stand by some of the shitty things they did 353 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:45,639 Speaker 2: or thought or said back in the day, double down, well, 354 00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:48,119 Speaker 2: you know, never hurt me good clip upside the Oh 355 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:52,360 Speaker 2: you know I didn't it didn't it really? But then 356 00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:54,440 Speaker 2: there's those who when you know better, you do better. 357 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:58,159 Speaker 2: And that's across all of life, about our attitudes to 358 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:00,880 Speaker 2: certain kinds of people and all of that stuff. When 359 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:03,480 Speaker 2: you know better, you do better. Smart people do that, 360 00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:07,119 Speaker 2: Compassionate people do that. You know, I think small minded, 361 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:12,080 Speaker 2: dim people don't fear for people, people people, People who 362 00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:16,280 Speaker 2: live narrow from black. Yes, they don't do better because 363 00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:19,240 Speaker 2: they just double down on their crappy opinions and their 364 00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:22,719 Speaker 2: crappy behaviors and never and they stand by their pride, 365 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:25,320 Speaker 2: their ego, if you will, like they don't remove that 366 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:28,680 Speaker 2: ego to swallow their pride and say maybe I was wrong. 367 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:31,960 Speaker 1: And that's my father had a lot of that, like 368 00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:35,600 Speaker 1: a lot of that problem. I've never had kids for 369 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:38,119 Speaker 1: an array of reasons, but one of them was because 370 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:42,199 Speaker 1: I was really frightened i'd have my father's temper that 371 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:44,320 Speaker 1: he had with us, and I was so frightened to 372 00:18:44,359 --> 00:18:48,479 Speaker 1: do that to children. But my brother did, and I 373 00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:52,280 Speaker 1: remember him saying, I changed it, like I changed it. 374 00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:55,440 Speaker 1: The kids didn't get hit because when you know better, 375 00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:57,920 Speaker 1: you do better. That's right, And it's there's two ways 376 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:01,320 Speaker 1: that can go, is exactly to follow the steps or 377 00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:03,840 Speaker 1: you turn it right on its head. And it's funny 378 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:06,200 Speaker 1: the ones who double down, they see themselves as the 379 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:08,760 Speaker 1: victims still like, well, I don't know any better. I 380 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:10,679 Speaker 1: didn't know any better, and you know, you should have 381 00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:13,520 Speaker 1: seen the ship that happened to me. Okay, it was like, well, 382 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:14,280 Speaker 1: clearly you're not. 383 00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 2: You could know better now if you would. 384 00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:21,199 Speaker 1: And that's why I'm so glad we have things in 385 00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:25,040 Speaker 1: place for kids with parents, because you know, the things 386 00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:26,800 Speaker 1: that parents could get away with. 387 00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:29,800 Speaker 2: Back in the day and it was all perfectly normal. 388 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:32,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, and not just your parents, your mate's parents could 389 00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:35,480 Speaker 1: hit you as well. My parents could, your teachers could 390 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:37,800 Speaker 1: hit you everyone. 391 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:38,800 Speaker 2: Fair game. 392 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:41,040 Speaker 1: I am watching how mad I just could hit you 393 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:45,800 Speaker 1: with a with a cane daily. Remember when mad Men 394 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:49,560 Speaker 1: first came out, I remember there was I only watched 395 00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:51,080 Speaker 1: the first season and then I was just like, no, 396 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:52,640 Speaker 1: this isn't for me. But it was such a great 397 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:57,040 Speaker 1: show anyway. But because it's said in the fifties of marketing, 398 00:19:57,080 --> 00:19:59,280 Speaker 1: so lots but there was lots of you know, you'd 399 00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:01,640 Speaker 1: go to they There was one scene where they all 400 00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:03,560 Speaker 1: went to someone's house for a party. So all the 401 00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:06,080 Speaker 1: kids are everywhere. Kids are like the boys are dressed 402 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:10,640 Speaker 1: up as cowboys and they're all running around bang bang bang. 403 00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:14,320 Speaker 1: And one all the men are drinking scotch and the 404 00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:18,200 Speaker 1: kids run through the circle of men and one guy 405 00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:21,720 Speaker 1: just slaps this kid upside the head and the other 406 00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:24,919 Speaker 1: man goes, I'm so sorry you had to hit my 407 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:28,840 Speaker 1: son like that, Like Jesus, Jimmy, what are you doing it? 408 00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:29,439 Speaker 2: Like? 409 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:33,359 Speaker 1: It triggered me. I was like cool, memory unlocked the 410 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:36,560 Speaker 1: amount of people that were allowed to hit us and 411 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:41,160 Speaker 1: discipline us as children. Is quite astounding what they could 412 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:41,840 Speaker 1: get away. 413 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:44,560 Speaker 2: With, saying, goodness, that's not the way anymore, thank. 414 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:49,119 Speaker 1: God, it's not. I want to ask you about going 415 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:52,640 Speaker 1: into a mental health facility, do you mind talking about No. 416 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:54,280 Speaker 2: Of course not, of course not. It's all part of 417 00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:56,160 Speaker 2: the part of the big picture. 418 00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:58,760 Speaker 1: Because I've been in one as well, twenty years ago. 419 00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:04,760 Speaker 1: But I know things really change in time, especially in 420 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:08,119 Speaker 1: two decades mine over two decades ago. But you spoke 421 00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:11,760 Speaker 1: on the project about how there was a lovely couple 422 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:15,320 Speaker 1: of strangers. Yes, that helped you in a really pivotal moment. 423 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:17,840 Speaker 2: That's what sort of started me down that path. And 424 00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:22,400 Speaker 2: I have experienced a few different admissions over the past 425 00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:24,960 Speaker 2: couple of years. And I have experienced a public system 426 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:27,119 Speaker 2: that was one of my questions as well, and the 427 00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:29,760 Speaker 2: private system. And I know which one will heal. 428 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:33,840 Speaker 1: You and that which one needs a lot of help. 429 00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:36,640 Speaker 2: And which one. I can't understand how anyone is expected 430 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:40,240 Speaker 2: to get better in a place like that. But yeah, no, 431 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:44,840 Speaker 2: I got right to the very the very bottom of 432 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:47,440 Speaker 2: the well, and and I couldn't see any way out 433 00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:54,199 Speaker 2: other than to leave. And yeah, I was about to 434 00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:58,760 Speaker 2: execute a plan, and this beautiful young couple and their 435 00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:03,720 Speaker 2: dog just knew that they needed to sit with me 436 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:05,359 Speaker 2: for a bit, and they did. They sat with me 437 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:08,480 Speaker 2: for a couple of hours and just chatted, not about 438 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:12,760 Speaker 2: anything heavy, just about life and about their dog. Asked 439 00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:15,040 Speaker 2: me if I had dogs. I had told them about 440 00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:17,600 Speaker 2: my three and told them about my kids. They told 441 00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:21,440 Speaker 2: me about theirs, and once or twice in that two 442 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:25,640 Speaker 2: hour period, I laughed, and it shocked me because it's 443 00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:28,400 Speaker 2: like I didn't know there was even a laugh left 444 00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:31,240 Speaker 2: in there. I didn't know. And so by the end 445 00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:33,920 Speaker 2: of that time, I was ready to go home instead 446 00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:37,040 Speaker 2: of doing what I had gone there to do. And 447 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:41,320 Speaker 2: that was when I entered the mental health system. So 448 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:46,520 Speaker 2: my husband, when I told him where I'd been, he 449 00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:49,000 Speaker 2: just said, I'm not equipped to deal with this, so 450 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:50,560 Speaker 2: I'm going to take your to hospital now. 451 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:54,520 Speaker 1: So before you went on that walk, was it just like, 452 00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:58,479 Speaker 1: were you at home alone or was the family home. 453 00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:02,400 Speaker 2: I was on my way to a football match, so 454 00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:05,439 Speaker 2: we're mad Mariners fans in our household, and I was 455 00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:07,439 Speaker 2: on my way to that match and I was standing 456 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:09,760 Speaker 2: with Mick outside the stadium and he was going to 457 00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:12,320 Speaker 2: go meet clients over the other side of the stadium, 458 00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:14,120 Speaker 2: and I was going to meet friends over this side. 459 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:18,719 Speaker 2: And he it was I've been on a downward spiral 460 00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:21,119 Speaker 2: for a while and it was a horrible time, like 461 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:23,800 Speaker 2: everything was on fire, you know. It was oh yeah, 462 00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:26,280 Speaker 2: it was a really horrible time and everything was awful, 463 00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:29,480 Speaker 2: and and he was just real quiet, and I said, 464 00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:31,199 Speaker 2: are you all right? And he said, I'm worried about you. 465 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:36,000 Speaker 2: And that's that's all he said that. He wasn't no recriminations, no, 466 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:38,560 Speaker 2: no solutions thrown at me, just I'm worried about you. 467 00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:41,720 Speaker 2: And so he went off to sit with the clients 468 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:43,360 Speaker 2: and I just texted my friends and said, I don't 469 00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:46,520 Speaker 2: feel very well. I'm not coming. And that was the solution, 470 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:49,720 Speaker 2: and I just started walking. It was yep. It just 471 00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:54,679 Speaker 2: became really clear to me, they'll be better that I 472 00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:59,600 Speaker 2: ruin everything. I worry everyone. This is sickness talking. It 473 00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:05,800 Speaker 2: was my absolute belief in that moment, and I wasn't 474 00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:09,200 Speaker 2: happy about it. I was devastated by the realization that 475 00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:12,160 Speaker 2: all the people that I loved would be so much 476 00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:14,640 Speaker 2: better off if I just wasn't around to ruin their 477 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:18,239 Speaker 2: lives and that's what I arrived at. 478 00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:21,560 Speaker 1: I'm so glad that you're still here. Yeah, but they 479 00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:22,240 Speaker 1: are as well. 480 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:25,200 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, we're all very grateful to those people. 481 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:27,480 Speaker 1: Those and do you still know those people? 482 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:29,760 Speaker 2: I do. I've been in touch with them a couple 483 00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:31,160 Speaker 2: of times. Just tap them. 484 00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:32,560 Speaker 1: Angels on Earth? 485 00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:36,159 Speaker 2: Are they When I became a grandmother, I sent them 486 00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:40,159 Speaker 2: a picture of my granddaughter and yeah, just thank you. 487 00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:44,040 Speaker 1: Wow. Do you know the show? You can't ask that? 488 00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:46,720 Speaker 1: On the ABC there was an episode. It's one of 489 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:50,000 Speaker 1: the hardest episodes I've ever seen people who have tried 490 00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:54,159 Speaker 1: to take their own lives and not succeeded, and he 491 00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:58,440 Speaker 1: pretty much every single one of them said, I wish 492 00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:02,280 Speaker 1: I hadn't you know, I wish I just people knew 493 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:07,000 Speaker 1: before I thought that was the ultimate decision to make, 494 00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:14,639 Speaker 1: And it's almost like, I wish we could give people 495 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:17,119 Speaker 1: that opportunity. 496 00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:18,880 Speaker 2: This is what I'm trying to do with this book, 497 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:22,600 Speaker 2: you know, because I do detail all the things that 498 00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:27,960 Speaker 2: led to that day, and what I'd love. What my 499 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:30,560 Speaker 2: purpose is in writing it is that somebody might look 500 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:33,400 Speaker 2: at it and go, you know what, I have unprocessed 501 00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:37,520 Speaker 2: trauma from my childhood, or I am so overworked and 502 00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:40,320 Speaker 2: exhausted that I'm not finding joy in my day anymore. 503 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:45,439 Speaker 2: Or I have to arrange my face muscles into a 504 00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:49,119 Speaker 2: smile in order to leave the house. Or I have 505 00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:51,480 Speaker 2: waken up far too many mornings and not been able 506 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:53,399 Speaker 2: to put my feet on the floor. Any one of 507 00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:57,040 Speaker 2: those things. Or I need wine before I can sleep, 508 00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:00,000 Speaker 2: you know, any one of those things. If that is 509 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:03,240 Speaker 2: you just take it out, shine a bit of light 510 00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:05,679 Speaker 2: on it and examine it, and you might go, okay, well, 511 00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:08,960 Speaker 2: there's a simple solution to that. I will just drop 512 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:11,159 Speaker 2: a bit of my work hours or whatever. But it 513 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:14,960 Speaker 2: could also be the start of a very rocky path. 514 00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:17,760 Speaker 2: So if you can catch yourself at any point on 515 00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:20,760 Speaker 2: that path, because there comes a point on that path 516 00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:24,960 Speaker 2: where nothing's logical anymore, and illness takes over and your 517 00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:29,560 Speaker 2: beliefs which are wrong, yes, that there's only one solution. 518 00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:33,879 Speaker 2: So I don't think anyone's immune from that kind of 519 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:35,800 Speaker 2: downward spiral. I don't think they are. 520 00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:39,000 Speaker 1: Saying I could not agree with you more. Everyone is 521 00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:42,440 Speaker 1: susceptible to it. It can happen to any of us 522 00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:45,400 Speaker 1: if we let it get out of control. And it's 523 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,119 Speaker 1: not even letting it because it's not something you have 524 00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:49,240 Speaker 1: control out over. 525 00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:53,440 Speaker 2: No, but you can turn things around if you catch 526 00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:57,879 Speaker 2: it early enough so that these little warning signs, you know, 527 00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:03,760 Speaker 2: before you consume by mental illness, you can spot the 528 00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:05,959 Speaker 2: warning signs and start to do the things, pull out 529 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:08,840 Speaker 2: the tools out of the toolbox while you can, because 530 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:11,440 Speaker 2: there comes a point where you know, I describe it 531 00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:13,320 Speaker 2: as being at the bottom of the well. I can 532 00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:15,560 Speaker 2: see the tiny speck of light at the top, and 533 00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:17,119 Speaker 2: I know what I have to do to get to it. 534 00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:19,080 Speaker 2: I know what I have to do. I just can't 535 00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:21,400 Speaker 2: do it. Yes, I can't move my arms, I can't 536 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:24,520 Speaker 2: move my legs. I can barely breathe. So there's no 537 00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:26,240 Speaker 2: way I can get up and go for a walk 538 00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:29,679 Speaker 2: and you know, do a bit of meditating. And I 539 00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:33,119 Speaker 2: can't do that at that point. It's too bloody late, 540 00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:35,439 Speaker 2: and I really need to be hauled out there by 541 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:38,919 Speaker 2: heavy machinery. Yeah, and that's what the mental hospital, all 542 00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:41,480 Speaker 2: the therapy and all of that, that was the heavy 543 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:43,119 Speaker 2: machinery that I needed by then. 544 00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:47,560 Speaker 1: So mental health facility. It really breaks my heart that 545 00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:50,680 Speaker 1: it seems only people with money can get good help. 546 00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:53,280 Speaker 2: Well, let me tell you, and this is something that 547 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:55,440 Speaker 2: I learned and something that I've written in my book, 548 00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:57,280 Speaker 2: and something that I think is really important to know 549 00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:02,359 Speaker 2: if you've got basic private cover, which I know not 550 00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:07,520 Speaker 2: everyone can afford, and it breaks my heart. So normally, 551 00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:10,240 Speaker 2: if you say you need a knee surgery or your 552 00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:12,440 Speaker 2: eyes go to hell, and that's not part of your cover, 553 00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:15,000 Speaker 2: you've got to wait, right, there's a waiting period before 554 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:18,199 Speaker 2: you can bolt that on. For mental health conditions, you 555 00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:21,359 Speaker 2: do not. So I wasn't covered to go to that 556 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:24,600 Speaker 2: mental health facility. But we found out that it's the 557 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:28,080 Speaker 2: law that if it's a mental health condition that the 558 00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:31,840 Speaker 2: insurance company has to allow you that immediately. So we 559 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:34,080 Speaker 2: straight away, it got straight on the phone. He said, 560 00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:37,160 Speaker 2: I need to change our coverage to cover private hospital 561 00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:39,440 Speaker 2: and all the things that I was going to need. 562 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:41,800 Speaker 2: And they can't say no to you because it's a 563 00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:42,680 Speaker 2: mental health condition. 564 00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:43,520 Speaker 1: So great to know. 565 00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:45,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know that. I mean, you've still got 566 00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:51,080 Speaker 2: to pay that premium, but you've still got to pay 567 00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:53,760 Speaker 2: for the extra. But they cannot say you've got to 568 00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:56,600 Speaker 2: wait a year. They cannot say that's a pre existing 569 00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:57,240 Speaker 2: condition either. 570 00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:00,160 Speaker 1: That's right. Well, and because public can't make you way 571 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:03,360 Speaker 1: like and those kind of things. They're emergency. Yeah, so 572 00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:06,720 Speaker 1: they'd be liable if they even tried to make you wait. 573 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:10,600 Speaker 2: And I can tell you we couldn't have afforded the 574 00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:13,040 Speaker 2: stays that I had in these private clinics because it's 575 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:14,120 Speaker 2: very very. 576 00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:16,320 Speaker 1: Good to know. Yes, they're so expensive. 577 00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:19,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, so basic cover and you can bolt that stuff 578 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:22,000 Speaker 2: on whenever you need it. If it's mental health. 579 00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:24,720 Speaker 1: Wow, that's so good to know, because they are getting 580 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:27,440 Speaker 1: better with the you know, the six bult build kind 581 00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:32,040 Speaker 1: of things, but sometimes there's a scaling or whatever with that, 582 00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:35,040 Speaker 1: like sometimes it's not enough, Yes, it's sometimes that's not enough. 583 00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:39,080 Speaker 1: Sometimes you can't get into the good therapists, and sometimes 584 00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:42,280 Speaker 1: a therapist once a week or twice a week is nothing. 585 00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:44,720 Speaker 1: It's drop in the ocean compared to what you need, 586 00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:48,480 Speaker 1: like that twenty four hour core. Oh that's so good 587 00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:48,880 Speaker 1: to know. 588 00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:52,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, there's certainly a long way to go that 589 00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:55,440 Speaker 2: there needs to be far more accessibility to mental health 590 00:29:55,440 --> 00:30:00,640 Speaker 2: care because it impacts I believe the is one in 591 00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:03,560 Speaker 2: two of us, which means it impacts everybody. Yeah, because 592 00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:06,560 Speaker 2: everybody knows somebody yep, So every life is impacted by 593 00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:08,000 Speaker 2: people's mental health. 594 00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:11,280 Speaker 1: And so why not put so much more money? Imagine 595 00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:13,480 Speaker 1: if we I mean, I've always said this about you know, 596 00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:18,240 Speaker 1: Nordic countries that you know, put all their taxes towards education, medical, 597 00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:23,560 Speaker 1: and daycare children, and they just they thrive so much 598 00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:26,080 Speaker 1: better because they take care of each other and themselves. 599 00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:29,560 Speaker 1: It just makes so much more sense to take care 600 00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:35,480 Speaker 1: of our mental health. Is throw all the money at 601 00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:37,360 Speaker 1: that and just you know, put so much and then 602 00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:40,840 Speaker 1: you've got so many other aspects of people's lives that 603 00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:43,640 Speaker 1: you don't have to spend money on. Correct Because you know, 604 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:45,720 Speaker 1: we're going through an endemic at the moment, what they're 605 00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:50,960 Speaker 1: calling it an epidemic of femicide. Women at the moment, 606 00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:54,360 Speaker 1: dying one every four days at the hands of an 607 00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:58,600 Speaker 1: intimate partner. I've been reading so much about it because 608 00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:00,720 Speaker 1: you know, I'm just so interested in this kind of thing, 609 00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:04,160 Speaker 1: and I've started to go to the other side of 610 00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:07,760 Speaker 1: men who've been in that situation why they're like that, 611 00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:13,280 Speaker 1: And a lot of them are saying the the help 612 00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:16,560 Speaker 1: is not there for us. And I at first as 613 00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:20,120 Speaker 1: roll mars like I don't want to you know, you're 614 00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:24,280 Speaker 1: doing awful things. But imagine if they were being treated 615 00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:28,360 Speaker 1: better in that sense of being taught how to use tools, 616 00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:32,720 Speaker 1: how to treat women, how to express their everything. Even 617 00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:35,479 Speaker 1: if we don't get them young, it's there for when 618 00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:37,320 Speaker 1: they're old, because we've got to start somewhere. So say 619 00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:39,960 Speaker 1: we start starting with the adult males, well. 620 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:43,320 Speaker 2: Helped them to process the childhood traumas. That taught them 621 00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:49,360 Speaker 2: to where they are exactly. You know, everyone who's violent, 622 00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:52,800 Speaker 2: everyone who's addicted, everyone, we're all walking traumas, you know, 623 00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:55,560 Speaker 2: and we all deal with it different ways. And yeah, 624 00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:58,440 Speaker 2: absolutely to address those issues is going to have a 625 00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:01,080 Speaker 2: massive impact on society as a whole as a whole, 626 00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:05,440 Speaker 2: and you know, and we also need to understand that 627 00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:08,160 Speaker 2: the physical and the mental are so closely connected too. 628 00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:11,920 Speaker 2: So when people have chronic pain and all that, that 629 00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:15,520 Speaker 2: leads that leads into that mental health side of things 630 00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:19,200 Speaker 2: as well. So it's all interconnected. And you know, for me, 631 00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:22,960 Speaker 2: the mental health became very physical. I got very physically 632 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:26,520 Speaker 2: sick as well, and so your body does, well, my 633 00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:30,360 Speaker 2: brain seemed to go. If you're not going to listen 634 00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:33,240 Speaker 2: to the warning signs I'm giving you up here, I'm 635 00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:35,440 Speaker 2: going to send them out to all how the parts 636 00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:38,000 Speaker 2: of your body. That's right, and that's what happened. 637 00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:42,120 Speaker 1: Exactly what it's physiological. Thank you for just talking so 638 00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:44,600 Speaker 1: vulnerably and writing a book. I can't wait to read it. 639 00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:49,080 Speaker 1: You are very first Master Shift and I, even though 640 00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:52,040 Speaker 1: we've met, it was like it was a business business, 641 00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:54,120 Speaker 1: it was a work thing, so we never have really 642 00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:55,840 Speaker 1: ever had a chance to have a chat. So and 643 00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:58,720 Speaker 1: you're someone that I've always wanted to meet, like always 644 00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:01,880 Speaker 1: wanted to meet because you were the I can still 645 00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:05,680 Speaker 1: just remember master Chef. You know what TV is laying. 646 00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:10,680 Speaker 1: Channel ten and Channel nine are the worst for saturating 647 00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:14,200 Speaker 1: us with promo, and you were the promo. So you 648 00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:18,280 Speaker 1: were the shaking mom who didn't even think that you 649 00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:20,400 Speaker 1: were going to get through the first round, like no, 650 00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:24,280 Speaker 1: And that's just made everyone fall in love with wanting 651 00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:26,880 Speaker 1: to watch the show, and then watching the show and 652 00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:30,880 Speaker 1: seeing you win. It was if the nation's pride, like 653 00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:32,640 Speaker 1: you were all of us. 654 00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:33,680 Speaker 2: That's lovely. 655 00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:35,440 Speaker 1: It was. It was a wild ride. 656 00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:37,920 Speaker 2: I do write a lot about it, about it and 657 00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:40,480 Speaker 2: all the stories and all the behind the scenes. It 658 00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:44,680 Speaker 2: was so interesting and it was so hard, you know, 659 00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:48,800 Speaker 2: but my god, it's I don't regret doing it for 660 00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:49,440 Speaker 2: one second. 661 00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:52,240 Speaker 1: No, and my I did The Jungle. You've done the 662 00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:56,760 Speaker 1: Jungle as well. And our chef film was Justine. Yeah, 663 00:33:56,880 --> 00:34:00,160 Speaker 1: he's beautiful, beautiful, and she talked about you sold and 664 00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:02,680 Speaker 1: I would say, I love her so much, I wouldn't 665 00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:04,480 Speaker 1: meet her. And it's with that we've just you know, 666 00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:08,279 Speaker 1: it's taken so long to meet you. And then you 667 00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:10,919 Speaker 1: got into radio as well. Yes, and I'm really glad 668 00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:13,200 Speaker 1: that you did that because where I grew up, you know, 669 00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:16,200 Speaker 1: which is where you were doing the radio. Like I 670 00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:19,040 Speaker 1: would have just loved to be on Central Coast Radio. 671 00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:22,440 Speaker 1: Like it was like, oh my god, everyone I know listens. 672 00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:25,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, I loved the radio. I loved it. I just 673 00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:30,160 Speaker 2: my co host, Rabbit is just he was a veteran 674 00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:32,759 Speaker 2: in the business, so good at what he did and 675 00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:36,080 Speaker 2: just such a funny person. So we just hit it 676 00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:37,680 Speaker 2: off and we had so much fun. 677 00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:40,160 Speaker 1: That's so great. Would you ever go back again? 678 00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:43,360 Speaker 2: Not to Brecky, I just it was part of the 679 00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:44,520 Speaker 2: whole unraveling. 680 00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:49,000 Speaker 1: That's another world. It is another world. I remember doing 681 00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:53,520 Speaker 1: breakfast and saying to Ash London, when does it get 682 00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:57,760 Speaker 1: She just laughed, Oh, honey, it doesn't, No, it doesn't 683 00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:01,680 Speaker 1: get better. Your body clock doesn't get living a different 684 00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:02,879 Speaker 1: world to everyone. 685 00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:05,200 Speaker 2: Else totally, because you don't just lose your morning, like 686 00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:06,920 Speaker 2: you've got to get up at four. Well, I had 687 00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:10,239 Speaker 2: to get up at four. Some people are earlier. So 688 00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:12,560 Speaker 2: you don't just lose the morning at home with you know, 689 00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:16,560 Speaker 2: your family or your partner or whatever. You lose your 690 00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:18,239 Speaker 2: night as well because you've got to eat and go 691 00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:21,680 Speaker 2: to early. And that's so and I kind. 692 00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:23,759 Speaker 1: Of got to watch a screen or try to stay 693 00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:25,960 Speaker 1: up and watch something that you've got to got to. 694 00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:29,799 Speaker 2: Have content, yeah, and the next day. So so it 695 00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:32,719 Speaker 2: does take you out of the mainstream world. But then 696 00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:35,080 Speaker 2: I was running a cooking school as well, so I 697 00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:38,480 Speaker 2: had I had essentially two full time jobs. So that's 698 00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:41,919 Speaker 2: where really the wheels started to wobble on the old 699 00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:47,040 Speaker 2: on the old chassis. And yeah, so I don't think 700 00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:49,319 Speaker 2: going back to breakfast radio would be the best thing 701 00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:51,120 Speaker 2: for my for my brain, but. 702 00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:55,040 Speaker 1: Other types of yeah, yeah, and podcasting is such a 703 00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:59,600 Speaker 1: big thing these days and so flexible. So we do 704 00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:02,520 Speaker 1: I do without pants on sometimes, don't I marvel? 705 00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:04,760 Speaker 2: I've did lots of things without pants on. We should 706 00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:05,560 Speaker 2: just do a lot. 707 00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:08,040 Speaker 1: Of things, well, should do more things without pants on. 708 00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:13,400 Speaker 2: I might do a cooking cooking cooking without pants. 709 00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:20,160 Speaker 1: No cooking segment. I like it. Okay. Lastly, so where 710 00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:21,600 Speaker 1: are you at in your life now? 711 00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:26,000 Speaker 2: My life now? So I had to leave the radio. 712 00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:29,680 Speaker 2: I close my cooking school for my well being as well, 713 00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:34,200 Speaker 2: and so now I make choices about what to do. 714 00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:36,600 Speaker 2: I obviously chose to write a book, and now I'm 715 00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:39,320 Speaker 2: on book tour. So this is not a particularly balanced 716 00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:42,760 Speaker 2: period of time. But when I'm not in this little 717 00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:46,600 Speaker 2: sort of vortex of activity, I do a lot of 718 00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:48,799 Speaker 2: art now, So I've gone back to some of the 719 00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:50,479 Speaker 2: things that brought me joy when I was a kid. 720 00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:54,879 Speaker 2: My beautiful kitchen, cooking school. So one end it's still 721 00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:57,960 Speaker 2: a kitchen where I make content and develop recipes and 722 00:36:58,000 --> 00:36:59,840 Speaker 2: do all that stuff. And the other end is an 723 00:36:59,880 --> 00:37:03,160 Speaker 2: art studio. So I've got canvases and easels, and I 724 00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:06,160 Speaker 2: paint with pastry brushes and egg flips and all sorts 725 00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:09,080 Speaker 2: of stuff. I have so much fun there. I spend 726 00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:10,920 Speaker 2: a lot of time with my three year old granddaughter. 727 00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:13,719 Speaker 1: Yeah, how happens your granddaughter now? 728 00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:19,040 Speaker 2: Three three, which is just the birstage, And so I 729 00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:21,960 Speaker 2: make time for her and it's the most it's the 730 00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:25,680 Speaker 2: best time in my whole week. And yeah, I just 731 00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:28,719 Speaker 2: choose now whether I'm going to take an opportunity or not. 732 00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:31,080 Speaker 2: And I'm not driven by fear anymore. So I was 733 00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:33,359 Speaker 2: driven so much by the fear. If I don't take 734 00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:36,440 Speaker 2: every opportunity that came through the door, I would lose 735 00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:39,200 Speaker 2: my ability to make a living and I would lose 736 00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:43,360 Speaker 2: my opportunities that I've been gifted from from mastershire fifteen 737 00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:45,080 Speaker 2: years ago. And I've got it. I've got to do 738 00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:47,200 Speaker 2: it all. And now I'm just like, well, no, actually, 739 00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:48,280 Speaker 2: I've got choices. 740 00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:52,040 Speaker 1: And how's the response being so far from like just 741 00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:55,680 Speaker 1: the general public, Like when people see you in the 742 00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:57,879 Speaker 1: street and now they know that you've written a book, 743 00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:01,960 Speaker 1: Like because the Project interview that it made me bore 744 00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:05,040 Speaker 1: my eyes out in a really good way, because I 745 00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:08,000 Speaker 1: was just so grateful that people are talking about there, 746 00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:11,720 Speaker 1: you know, and people who are seemingly not perfect, happy 747 00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:15,960 Speaker 1: and joyful all the time to see you be so real. 748 00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:18,680 Speaker 1: It also broke my heart to see that you're in 749 00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:21,040 Speaker 1: any kind of pain, because you know, you're someone that 750 00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:23,440 Speaker 1: I've always looked at and just made me so happy. 751 00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:31,040 Speaker 1: I'm just thinking you're getting that kind of reaction from 752 00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:33,000 Speaker 1: the general public when they see you talk to you. 753 00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:36,879 Speaker 2: I've got people like I'm doing these book events where 754 00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:38,560 Speaker 2: we chat and then people come and talk to me 755 00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:41,360 Speaker 2: one on one, and people are sharing their own stories 756 00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:43,719 Speaker 2: with me. And some of these people are of the 757 00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:47,840 Speaker 2: generation that have never been allowed to talk about stuff 758 00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:50,960 Speaker 2: like that, and it's incredible how liberating it is for 759 00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:56,040 Speaker 2: them especially, you know. But yeah, everyone's relating to bits 760 00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:58,560 Speaker 2: and pieces of the story or the whole story, and 761 00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:00,680 Speaker 2: just feel weird, seen. 762 00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:04,919 Speaker 1: That's being seen being heard. When you finished the book, 763 00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:05,799 Speaker 1: did you just feel lighter? 764 00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:10,480 Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, when I got to the last line, I 765 00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:13,840 Speaker 2: typed it out and I felt like a ton of 766 00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:15,520 Speaker 2: rocks came off the top of my head. 767 00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:19,200 Speaker 1: People should just write, even if they'd ever published. 768 00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:24,600 Speaker 2: That That experience of putting my life down chronologically actually 769 00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:26,880 Speaker 2: taught me a lot of stuff. There were things that 770 00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:31,120 Speaker 2: had happened that I never understood why as a teenager, 771 00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:33,239 Speaker 2: and then when I wrote down the chronology of all 772 00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:36,240 Speaker 2: the stuff that's happened in my life, I went, oh, 773 00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:40,279 Speaker 2: this is like cliche, it's so boring text. Obviously that 774 00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:42,640 Speaker 2: happened because of that, that happened because of that, and 775 00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:44,799 Speaker 2: that led to this, and that led to this. If 776 00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:48,279 Speaker 2: I showed this rough outline to any psychologists, they would 777 00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:50,239 Speaker 2: have said, I can tell you what's going to happen here. 778 00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:52,360 Speaker 2: If somebody doesn't intervene here. 779 00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:56,360 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, textbook, they would study that. You would be okay, 780 00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:58,839 Speaker 1: study and say this is what this is. Julie did this, 781 00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:00,640 Speaker 1: this and this and this and this happened to you. 782 00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:02,839 Speaker 2: If it was a script variety, you go, oh, come on, 783 00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:05,239 Speaker 2: this has been done to death. Come up with some 784 00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:07,040 Speaker 2: there a bit more original. 785 00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:08,360 Speaker 1: And that would be so many people, wouldn't it. 786 00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:09,759 Speaker 2: Yep, it really is. 787 00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:11,920 Speaker 1: Start writing everyone, Just start writing. 788 00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:13,239 Speaker 2: Shot it down, Shot it down. 789 00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:16,520 Speaker 1: I often say to people went with therapy, you have 790 00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:19,200 Speaker 1: to get your hands dirty. It's going to be tough, but. 791 00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:20,200 Speaker 2: Get your heart dirty. 792 00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:20,840 Speaker 1: You have to. 793 00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:24,359 Speaker 2: You have to really go back to some places that 794 00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:25,040 Speaker 2: are hard. 795 00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:26,560 Speaker 1: Very hard, not comfortable. 796 00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:30,520 Speaker 2: But then you heal them. Yes, and then you come 797 00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:33,960 Speaker 2: out with a loss of that the shame that you've 798 00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:37,560 Speaker 2: carried and a loss of you've carried, and you're able 799 00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:41,640 Speaker 2: to be a bit more compassionate to yourself and you know, 800 00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:43,799 Speaker 2: bring in those parts of you that you've left out 801 00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:44,320 Speaker 2: in the cold. 802 00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:47,480 Speaker 1: It's almost like a garden. Like you have to start 803 00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:51,319 Speaker 1: with a pretty ugly surface, but what you can do 804 00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:55,160 Speaker 1: with it by getting into it, nurturing it, and you 805 00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:57,040 Speaker 1: still have to tend to it, and you end up 806 00:40:57,040 --> 00:41:00,879 Speaker 1: with something quite beautiful and light. And I've never really 807 00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:02,480 Speaker 1: thought of it like that. But that's that's not a 808 00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:03,800 Speaker 1: bad analogy, is it. Garden? 809 00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:08,400 Speaker 2: I like that garden ourselves. Let's be flowers, and you have, yes, 810 00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:09,279 Speaker 2: get rid of the weeds. 811 00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:11,680 Speaker 1: You have to keep doing it, don't you. 812 00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:14,320 Speaker 2: Oh yes, oh yes, mate, You've got to maintain. 813 00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:17,080 Speaker 1: But how much how beautiful the rewards of a garden 814 00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:19,440 Speaker 1: as well like, and it changes all the time, and 815 00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:24,600 Speaker 1: especially if you're a deciduous garden, she's really run. 816 00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:31,520 Speaker 2: On that note, thank you, thank you, thank you, oh thanks, Ebo. 817 00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:34,120 Speaker 2: I appreciate you letting me have this conversation. 818 00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:37,480 Speaker 1: You are more than welcome. Thank you for coming in.